#709: What Retailers Need to Know About Serving the Plus Size Market

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Business can be a lonely game, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week I have really been looking forward to having this conversation on the podcast because I was fortunate enough to get a taste of this conversation in person live in LA this fall with our LA experience. So Tracy, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy you're here.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

This is going to be such a great conversation for literally every type of retailer that I can't wait to dig into. But we've got to start with a little bit of the backstory first. I know you have been in this industry for quite some time. You have a history in designing. You got started at an early age. So before we talk about the line as it is today, I've got to know the backstory of how you first got started.

I think like a lot of young girls, my grandmother taught me to sew and so I played around with looks, especially in high school, upscaling and things like that. But it wasn't until I was a professional and an adult and needed clothes to wear for my fabulous life that I started designing for myself. And the clothes that I was wearing and creating got a lot of notice. So then I started playing with the idea of, of maybe starting a clothing line.

I love that. So take me a step further. You started creating for yourself. You decide you're going to start this beautiful line. Where did you go first?

Well, what's, what's interesting for me is, well, 10 years ago when you think, oh, I'll start a clothing line, it was seemingly impossible, you know, because one, a storefront, we can only imagine how much money a storefront costs and then filling the store with clothes. I didn't have the budget for that. And then you think, okay, going online. Well, just 10 years ago, building a website was what, like $25,000 to start? Even the postal service wasn't set up for that type of business. Credit card acceptance wasn't set up for online businesses. You had to go through an approval and do all of this stuff to prove that you weren't some, I guess, drug dealer selling stuff through FedEx so there were a lot of fundamental hurdles to starting this kind of business. And I remember I would go to, they used to have a thing called bookstores. And I would go to Barnes and Noble and I would sit on the floor and, you know, pull five or six books out and read different opinions on how to start an online business. And I just couldn't afford it. I didn't have the time, the resources, I couldn't swing it. So it stayed in the back of my mind and it wasn't until the pandemic, of all things, that truly made it possible.

So you're in California, you're in LA at this time, I'm assuming. Yes, around the pandemic. And it's time for a change of plans. So where do you go next? How do you get started?

You know, truthfully, I'm going to be, you know, transparent with everyone. So my a job is I'm a talent agent and I represent some of your favorite actors, writers, directors. That's how I pay my mortgage. And I love it. And, you know, it's a challenging job, but I'm addicted. But during the pandemic, there's no production, none of the television shows are going, so we're at a work stoppage. And, you know, luckily enough we had a prudent reserve in our account. So I don't have to lay anybody off. I can continue to pay people, but we gotta be smart because none of us knew how long this pandemic thing was gonna be, right? Like we all thought, a week, two weeks. And as it stretched on, that's when we all got nervous. Okay, so I'm laying in bed and it's about 3 o' clock in the morning. And literally something said, in my spirit, start your clothing line. And I was like, what now? I hadn't thought about a clothing line in years, not in years. But I was obedient to that voice. I got up at that moment, I pulled my laptop out and I bought the domain for Sante Grace and started from there. Oh, beautiful.

Well, that intuition is so strong. It knows, right? More than we know. So fast forward to now. You have a beautiful luxury plus size apparel line and with beautiful fabrics that I was lucky enough to see in person. Tell me more about Sante Grace as it is today.

Well, I believe anything you do or anything I do, I want to do it to the best of my ability. And it didn't make sense to start this new business. All of that work to turn out polyester pants, that's not who I am. And that just didn't seem worth the effort. So I knew there was a huge hole in the, the fashion space in plus size. There was a white space there because I occupied it. There wasn't luxury. And I say luxury, it's not even luxury. It's bridge. There weren't bridge plus size clothes available. If you were a woman who wanted to dress for the job you wanted, not for the job you had.

Yes.

Not a lot of opportunity. Right. Because in my case, I'm trying to sign clients that are going to bring in millions and millions of dollars to my agency. That's not going to happen. With fast fashion, you want to look like the success you are. The other thing is I believe in sustainability. We can't just wait for the earth to heal itself. We have to take part in it and do it. So, you know, I was kind of sketching out not just what I want the clothes to look like, but what I want the business to be, what I want the business to represent. And who is the Sante Grace woman I had when I was a kid, like a lot of us, I had the opportunity to work retail and I thought about the clients that I served and what we had for them and what we didn't. And I was determined to fill that gap. That gap. So I'd been sewing for years for myself. I knew downtown like the back of my hand, but I didn't know factories, but I knew fabrics pretty well. And I'd worked out, I worked for textile manufacturer. So I decided, okay, we're going to use sustainable fabrics. We are going to use luxury fabrication. The plus size women often don't have access to. And we're going to be high fashion. We are going to be about, in fact, we're going to be about style over fashion. We are not going to be fast fashion. We're not trying to sell, you know, 5,000 of the same polyester frock. We really want this to be a curated collection where when this woman goes to a, whether she goes to a gala or in the office, you're never going to see somebody wearing, you know, your outfit.

Yes. I love that. And I think what's so important to highlight and what you mentioned too, is, you know, that quality piece and that bridge price point piece. I have several sisters who are curvy and, and they're willing to spend plenty of money on what is quality over what is affordable and fast. And I think that's there's such a different mindset with a regular size versus a plus size because it's not about trend. And I want lots of these people pieces. It's about, I want something beautiful and I'm willing to pay a lot of money for it if it fits. Right. So as a business owner, when you're considering, like, do I bring in extended sizing to my business? Like it's a whole other mindset that you really have to shift and adapt to. So I say all that just in order to ask you when you think about the businesses who are carrying your line, because I know you wholesale and you go direct to consumer, I believe. Yes, but the businesses are carrying your line, the most successful ones. I'm curious, what do they have in common in terms of how they sell to and serve their customers and really provide for what that curvy woman is looking for.

You have done your research, Ashley, so hats off to you. Yes, the plus size woman, really, we don't have anywhere to shop. You know, we all know the same five, you know, big brand plus size places and then we all go there and scratch one another's eyes out for the best thing. Right. So we are an incredibly loyal audience. You just have to find a way to speak to us. One, you gotta convince us that you know what our bodies look like. The majority of these clothes are produced in China and I cannot figure out why they cannot get the sizing correct. I, I don't know, it's a mystery. I'm not going to argue it. It just created a space for me. But so many people think, oh, I carry extra large. That doesn't mean you carry plus size. Or they're getting, you know, their fast fashion from China and they have 1, 2, 3. Those clothes don't fit us, ma'. Am. Those clothes don't fit us. So you gotta let your girl know, you gotta let your gal know. I have real plus size that is gonna fit you. You don't have to. And everything that you wear doesn't have to have spandex in it. We've done the research, we know what your body is like. You can have tailored, great looking clothes, jeans Even, that aren't 50% spandex, that are gonna rip up in the wash. So once you get across to your woman that you have the quality, you pretty much just have to stand back and watch her race into your store and then work coordinates. Right? All of us should be thinking about, and this is part of the sustainability practice too, not how we buy a volume of clothes. I mean, I'm a retailer telling people to buy less, but how you build a closet, how you help your Woman, how you guide her and you build a style or a look. Because now you really got her. Because now when she walks into your store or she logs on and you have her thinking or you're showing her, okay, so you bought this cashmere sweater two weeks ago. Here are the silk charmeuse pants that are going to look great with that sweater. Here's the scarf or the gloves or whatever it is that complements it. And that's how you'll, you know, create your customer loyalty.

We've got to talk about that a little bit more. I love that you said that, because I was just talking to someone about this yesterday about really how different women shop. Some people shop on live sales. Some people. I'm someone who. I don't necessarily prefer live sales. I prefer to go to a website because I know what I want. And I. For me, it's very easy to say, this is my sense of style. I know all these things would look great together. Boom, and I'm done. But specifically, when it comes to plus size, what you said is so important to create the education for that woman. Because traditionally, plus size women have not had a lot of options and maybe are not as comfortable understanding what pairs well together. They don't have that knowledge. They are relying on you as the expert to provide that knowledge. So if I can just echo you and say the opportunity you have to create style education to teach people how to layer, to teach people how to have that, you know, staple wardrobe. What are the base pieces that you need and then how to build on it. And then when you can talk about the quality fabrics you have and the cost per wear and the longevity of what you're buying. When it is quality, man. Here's 10 staple pieces. Sure, they're 100 to $200, but look at how it's going to build over time and what opportunity you're going to have in your closet to go from there. So I just think that is so spot on. What other do you think maybe misconceptions are out there for retailers when they're considering being bringing in plus sizes that you wish they knew or understood that could help them be successful?

Oh, my gosh. It's everything. Okay, you have. When I say to retailers, one plus size, we're the majority. 67% of American women are a size 16 or above. So you get an opportunity to. Now you're moving to the big leagues, right? You thought when you were serving a customer from size 10 to 12 or maybe 14, that you were doing the job you're missing out on the majority of folks. That's number one. Number two, we actually need you like your services are needed. This woman doesn't have anything to wear. So just by showing up, you almost turn a profit. But you got to let her know that you actually have plus size. That's the, you know, that's the first thing that you have more than stretch pants and T shirts. Because a lot of people, that's what they bring in. They're bringing in a lot of fast fashion. Acrylic sweater with some stretch pants, which is fine, but that's not every day, right? Like I'm plus size, but I still got to go to work, I go on dates, I go to brunch with my girlfriends, and I go on holiday. And I'm not wearing that same, you know, two piece set to everything. And we want to look just like everyone else. So when Beyonce last year told everyone to wear silver to her concert, we didn't want to look like astronauts. You know, all the skinny girls or the smaller girls have some cute little outfit. We want a cute little outfit. So never forget that. And the other thing is, because this woman, as you said, we're echoing some of the same points because she hasn't had a lot of choice in her life. Many times she doesn't see herself in that kind of fashion and she's saying, oh, I could never wear that, or I was told I can't wear stripes or what have you. And you've got to get her over that bridge a bit. And once you do, she's in the land of fashion and style. What's true that many of those women don't realize, is that the higher fashion it is, often the better it looks on you. The better constructed it is, the better it looks on you. The pockets are in the proper place and don't make your thighs look larger. Right. The seams are in a thoughtful place that doesn't make your boobs look lopsided or, you know, and the other thing is, I think whenever you're a woman and you can dress age appropriate, you're always going to look more elegant, you're always going to look classier.

So good. Hey, can we meet up in person? It is one of my favorite things to do here at the Boutique Hub to get to meet you face to face, to hear your personal business story and your journey and what you're working on, but also to put you in contact with and to build friendships with some of the most amazing business owners from around the world. Boutique owners, wholesale brands Industry, service providers and experts, all of us together in one room. And, and that's what we do at our annual Boutique Summit event this year. I would love for you to come to Dallas, Texas of course, on June 8th and 9th for our annual Boutique Summit. Our theme this year is the summit and your business completely reimagined. And I think it's time for that theme to take effect. Right. We have been through some crazy highs and lows in this industry and I think going into 2025 we are all ready to reimagine what's possible possible in this industry and in your business personally. So get ready for detailed hands on workshops. Not just you listening to speakers, but you actually getting things done. Pulling out your Facebook ads account and building some ads together or planning out an entire quarter of content, maybe doing some social media audits with some of our most well listened to experts in the room along with fellow boutique owners. It's time to dig deeper into your your business and that's what we're going to do together at the Boutique Summit in Dallas, Texas June 8th and 9th. I hope to see you there. It is our biggest and best and favorite event of the year. And it's time to take your business to the next level. Let's do it together. As you're speaking, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's just so much to learn and I want to ask you about. I want you to go deeper on some of those things you just covered. Specifically like when someone does not necessarily have a plus size body and they're trying to understand. Like I wouldn't know about the pocket placement, I wouldn't know about seams, I wouldn't know about a lot of women wanting to cover their arms. Like there's some things that most women just have no idea. This is an issue. And as you're talking too, I'm getting so excited because I keep thinking about one of my best friend growing up. Her mom was a plus size woman and still to this day is one of the most classy, well dressed women that I have ever known. I mean she had nailed how to dress her and very tall, I mean like probably 6 foot 5. A very tall woman. Yes, but just incredibly beautiful and classy and I've always admired her for that. But again, like somehow she learned along the way exactly those pieces of how to dress her body type. And as you mentioned earlier, not all plus size is equal. There are so many different types of plus size. Right. Like the curves don't all come in the same Places?

No.

So all that to say, can you go back double down on what you were just sharing of Again, some of those just like pieces of construction of fabric or fabric types that, that most women don't know are an issue.

So here's why. Here's some of the differentiating factors between different lines and price points. Okay. When you're a smaller size, there's a thing called grading. And that means the difference between sizes, right? So when you go From a size 2 to a size 4, obviously you've got to a lot for more fabric and the body changes, but doesn't really change that much. Right. And there's not much difference between a 4 and a 6. When you're talking about a 16 to a size 20, it's a bigger difference. And any mistake that you make in construction becomes really obvious. So what most design houses or companies do, they take their size 6 or whatever their sample size is and they say, okay, now we're going to make a size 16. And they just grade it up from there. So that's why many times you'll buy something and like I said, the darts are in the wrong place. Maybe the neck is super large or the arms are longer than they're supposed to be or shorter or whatever, right? Because everything on our body doesn't grow at that ratio. And we know all bodies are shaped differently. Some of us, when we gain a little weight, it's through our bust line. It might be we get a little tummy, our hips go wider, maybe our buttocks, you know, protrude more. But bodies carry weight in a different way. So when you manufacture plus, you have to take a minute and be very thoughtful about how you're even changing the garment from a size 16 to a 20, a 20 to a 24. And you can't use the same pattern. So what we do, one of the costs that are built into our clothes is we don't have one fit model, we have about eight. So there's, when we do a size 1 x 3 gals come in that are a size 16 and one person is tall and she's got a kind of a flat bottom and maybe skinny legs, but you know, bigger boobs, the other girl has got a Coke bottle figure somebody else has got a belly or a stomach because we want to see how that garment, how that pattern fits, all permutations of that size. And then we're going to make adjustments on a real human body and then we scale up and so we're doing that for every size that we create. So When I say one size fits all, you know, meaning from, like, size 1x to 5x, it truly does, because I've put from 1x to from, you know, 16 to a size 28 in that garment. And most designers, most lines aren't paying that. Paying the money to do that. Now, you also hit upon something earlier about sustainability and our fabrics. Okay? Man can design whatever he wants to, and we've made amazing progresses in textiles, but nature has us beat. Nothing feels or wears like silk. Nothing feels and breathes as well as cotton or linen. Nothing. And, you know, depending on your beliefs, nothing feels like real fur. So. And nothing drapes like these fabrics. There is a reason when why you put on a silk dress or blouse and automatically you stand up taller, you start touching yourself and repositioning the blouse. It just feels luxurious. There's a reason why Chinese emperors wore silk. Right? Mankind has known for over 3,000 years that silk means luxury. And one of the things that we have to teach women, too, is these luxury fabrics. They're not delicate little flowers. You know, when we go into a tomb and a mummy is wrapped in linen, and that linen has survived 2,500 years. So now you tell me that linen is delicate and you've got to have, you know, special care, or that Chinese emperor is wrapped in. No, we have to know how to take care of these textiles. We don't treat them the same way we treat our throwaway fast fashion, but they're actually not delicate. They're better for your skin, especially if you have any kind of skin challenges. They feel better. And I mean, this might be a little sexy, but I like it when my man touches me and I have silk on. That feels good to him too. It feels great to me. I always say that we sell confidence, not just clothing. Like, that's the way I think. That's a way of life that I want to offer to other women. That should be the feeling when you put on your clothes. You should look in the mirror and feel like Sarah Jessica Parker or whoever your style icon is. Right?

I couldn't agree more. With every word you said. And really, the main message at the end of the day is when it comes to, you know, just that, what are we selling in business? It's not about the products we're selling. What you're selling is a belief. What you're selling is confidence. Right? It's not the dress. It's how the dress makes you feel. And I think that transcends someone's size. So how else do you feel like Someone who's listening, like, what message would you give them if they are asking, okay, how do I carry that body positivity message forward no matter what size my customers are?

Well, I also think there's. We know that the fashion industry is run mainly by men. And there's a belief that one thing, that plus size is temporary. That, oh, maybe she gained a little weight, you know, after having the baby, she going to get that weight off and go back to a size 6. Now, we know as women, as we walk through life, our bodies change, and we shouldn't be changing our bodies to accommodate the clothing. The clothing should be accommodating us. So I believe in women being healthy and happy. That's what matters. Whatever size you are, you should not be killing yourself to fit back into your old jeans. That's not the way to live. Buy a pair of jeans that fits. That's a lot easier. It takes less time, you know, so one being plus is not temporary. Also, in the fashion industry, people believe that women are trying to look skinny. I'm not trying to look skinny. I'm trying to look great. I want to be like your friend's mom. I want to look chic. I want to look elegant. I don't want to look any older than I really am. And so that's how I'm shopping. I'm not shopping because, oh, you know, if I put on this Spanx and then I put on this dress, I will look, you know, 15 pounds. You know what I look like? I look like a size 16. Suffocating. That's what I look like. And I can't tell you in my life how many girdles and Spanx and what's Kim Kardashian's like? Like, I don't want to suffer anymore. I. My girlfriends and I laugh about how many times, like, that thing is rolled up and damn near killed you. We've all had it happen.

We have all had it happen.

And you can't wait to pull that rubber stuff off. Like, you take off the dress, you know, and sometimes you need help getting into it. I don't want.

You know, and there's nothing sexy about that. There's nothing sexy about getting home and feeling like you got to pull your sweaty Spanx off. Like, nobody wants that.

Nobody wants that, right? How about we just go get a better design dress? We still look great, right? But you don't have those. You don't have Spanx lines, you know, etched in your skin. Once you pull that off, that's nowhere to Live. Let me tell you something. That's not glamour, okay? That is. I represent a bunch of celebrities, and that's not glamour. But it's true, right? So just imagine if you could wear something. Let's go back to the silk again. So silk breathes. So if you have a problem with, you know, maybe you perspire a bit more than you want to. This is a fabric that breathes and insulates. Why? Because it's a natural fiber. So you put on a silk dress and you're able to wear your regular underpinnings, you know, some nice lingerie. You're like, oh, great, I'm going to this thing. I'm not like, you know, sweating like a pig all day. And it's comfortable and it's gliding over, over your curves because of the way, you know, the natural construction of silk, the dress actually fits you. And then you can come home and take that off and you can shake it out, spritz it, hang it back in the closet and wear it again. Like, that's the way to live.

Oh, I love that this is such a great conversation. Like, there is so much for all of us to learn from this conversation. So I'm just so appreciative. This has been so helpful.

Thank you for the platform.

You're absolutely welcome. One other thing I did want to ask you about, though, semi related, is not only have you built a great brand and great products, but you are also a champion of women and other small business owners. You do a great job collaborating, and that's, of course, what our entire motto is built off of at the Boutique Hub. Tell me more just about your mindset of community over competition and how you collaborate with other, like, business owners.

Oh, you know, I remember very early into this walk, I was on the online, and I came across the Boutique Hub, and everywhere you guys had, you know, collaboration over competition, and collaboration happens at the top, competition is at the bottom. And I just thought, that's so smart. Look, I'm in the movie business, and the thing about making a television show or a feature film is no one does it alone. You can be Steven Spielberg, and with all your money and your prestige and this, you can't make that film alone. You got to collaborate. It's a huge. Whenever you want to do something powerful, you cannot do it alone. And what we're doing is making clothes for women. We are in the service business. Right. I can't do that by myself because I support. I can support another woman, and it doesn't diminish me at all right, so I want us all to do well. I want to end the crying in the fitting room irrespective of your size, because we're talking mainly about plus here. But we know all of us have bought a swimsuit and not liked what we saw in the mirror. That's not, you know, doesn't matter about your size or your age or anything like that. So I want to make these experiences for women positive. How do we serve our customer better? How do we educate her so that she's even making the right choices? She knows that she's in the right spaces. That's what it's all about.

So positive. Oh, so positive. And I agree on every single level. Well, Tracy, I have a couple of quick lightning round questions. Are you ready?

Uh, oh, okay.

Okay. This will be quick and painless, I promise. Okay. I give you two hours back in your day magically. And these two hours come from nowhere. But you are allowed only to work on income generating activity. What do you focus on first?

Email and going live.

Oof. Yes.

Love those.

Okay, what do you think is the unsexiest but most impactful process in your business?

Okay, can I give you two?

Sure.

Website design and packaging.

Ooh, elaborate for me.

Okay. So you know, I don't have a brick and mortar. I have, you know, clothes in other stores, but I don't have a brick and mortar. But your website is your personality, and it is the way your customer walks through your store. So we know from brick and mortar, right, like this area has to generate this amount of money. We know this is our best seller. These are our hero products. They've got to be in the eye line. We've gone to classes, we know how to do that, but that's a little more amorphous on a website. There's all kinds of apps that are supposed to measure that, but it's always a work in progress. Why this photo and not that photo? Why in this collection, not that collection? And then the other thing is really packaging. Can I tell you a story? I remember this was before the pandemic. I love caftans, and I bought a $700 caftan from a company, and for me, like $700. It's not all the money in the world, but it's a lot of money. You know, to me, it's a lot of money for one garment. And the garment came in a plastic. It was packed in a plastic bag, and then that was packed in a poly mailer. And I was so angry before even putting on the garment. I Wanted to send it back because shopping should be an experience. It should be fun. Particularly to me, if you're spending that kind of money. I want that manufacturer to be thoughtful and caring and decisive. So we're always changing our packaging. I'm always looking for what the right combination is. All of our packing is made from things that you're meant to use again. So right now we pack in these little kind of Ziploc bags that are recyclable. And you know, I use in my chest of drawers, you know, it's how I pack some of my lingerie, my sweaters, so that the moths don't get them. Definitely when I'm traveling, I pack, I use, I reuse those bags. We think about, we use recyclable and compostable poly mailers, but we actually think about, okay, it's winter, the weather in New York is terrible. So does that mean that we're using poly mailers this season or we're using our recyclable boxes? And how do we message and communicate? It's an opportunity for you to message and communicate how important that customer is to you. So it's almost like to the best of my ability, almost like I want to gift wrap everything we send to the customer. Our message over and over to her is, relax, you're safe here, we gotcha. This is not a grab and go. I'm not just trying to take your money and disappear. I want a relationship with you, like how you're going to use this bag for the next five years. I want to develop a relationship with you where if it doesn't work for you, return it, you're not going to have a problem. And you can speak directly to me and let me know why it didn't work. So many times someone has called me and we've paid for the tailoring for that garment because maybe, you know, what we wrote on the website seemed misleading to a customer.

Well, I just keep hearing in my mind as you're speaking, it's about the experience, right? People don't remember what they bought from you. They remember the way you made them feel. And I think that is especially important when it comes to serving the plus size market. It is not about the product they bought for you. It is about how you're making them feel. So just to double down on that messaging, I think that's really, really important. Last lightning round question. What is the best business advice that you've ever received that always continues to stick with you?

I mean, it's really easy, right? We're all going to say the same thing. Well, I guess there's a few things, but always treat the customer, treat your vendor the way you want to be treated, period. Do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because you're afraid of getting caught. So other people may scrimp and do this or pay later and know that they can get away with it. Don't do that. Operate with integrity. I was taught, like, you know, operate like Jesus is sitting across from you. How would you speak to the person, even if you were angry, even if that customer is crazy? What would you do? How would you behave? And you know, that's a tough way to live, but if those are your benchmarks, you'll do great.

So good. Well, Tracy, this has been just an incredible conversation. I do have one last question, and it's kind of the big picture question which really ties into what you just said. At the end of the day, you build this business, you build these beautiful products. But 30 years from now, as you're sitting on the front porch and you're surrounded by loved ones and you're looking back on all this, what's the thing you really want people to remember the most about who you are and how you lived and what you built?

Oh, I have that vision all the time. You know, in my other industry, we call it corporate culture. Again, I go back to we ended the crying in the fitting room. Women, I think about, like, eventually we'll have a brick and mortar. And I think about the safe space that I try to build online and in brick and mortar for. Plus women, you can come here and relax. You're not being judged in any way. You walk in beautiful and you walk out beautiful, irrespective of how much you bought. You know, and I feel the same way about staff. Right. Creating a business where people love to come to work.

So good, all about how you treat people, how you experience people.

Right.

And the mark that you leave with those people. So, Tracy, this has been so great. Again, many thanks for joining me on the podcast today and for the opportunity we have to collaborate together. Yes. And for everyone listening, of course. I'm going to link up all of your information in the show notes today. I believe you also had a wholesale discount code that you're leaving with those who are interested today or some type of collaboration that we can offer for the retailers who would love to learn more about your line. So we'll link that up as well.

But Tracy, again, yes. If you type in the, if you'd like to retail Sante Grace type in the Hub and we have a. I'll send it to you guys. But we have a crazy discount that my accountant is going to spank me about. But. Well, we love those of giving away clothes. He think, he's like, he's like. He said, you wake up every day and you think, how many clothes, how many expensive caftans can I give away today?

Well, you do. Look at you. You're just doing good in the world one caftan at a time.

I try.

So good. Tracy, thanks again.

Thank you, Ashley.

Thanks for listening, guys. I hope you took away all kinds of nuggets and new ideas from this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a rating and review. We love to hear your feedback and give you a chance to be featured on the show each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and to access guest downloads and bonuses and all the resources we talked about on the show, head on over to the boutique hub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.