#718: What to Do When No One Buys: Pricing, Pitching & Pivoting

I love talking about sales and I.

Don'T think that's very common.

I think a lot of people shy away from the idea of talking about.

Sales because it feels intimidating or slimy or I don't know, especially women. It's hard to ask people for money, right? But what if we took that entire idea and flipped it on its head and we said, well, actually sales is a noble occupation because you're solving people's problems. That's why I love today's episode so much with my friend Andy Hart. Andy has been in corporate sales. She's built an amazing candle business that scaled to hundreds of boutiques around the country. And now she's helping teach other product based businesses and wholesalers how they can scale their wholesale business as well. And it's all in this idea of how are you selling differently? So today we're going to dig into it. Whether it's your mindset or pricing strategy or standing out from a crowded market or even living in community over competition. How selling can be one of the things you get most excited about every single day. So get ready to meet my friend Andy Hart, the founder of the podcast. She sells differently, among many other things, multi talented. Going to love this episode. Take some notes. Let's get into it.

Business can be a lonely game, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the.

Future of our industry.

I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat.

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. I am really excited, Andy. I've got my notebook out. I'm thinking that when we're speaking today, like I'm going to be taking notes because I love this topic so much. When I think about like just sales as a topic, you know, I think so many people think it's like a slimy like, oh, selling feels like a car salesman. But I will never forget this.

My husband used to work in high.

Level corporate sales and processes that took months and years right to close these deals. And he would always say to me, ashley, sales are a noble thing when you can truly solve somebody's problem and make their life better in the process.

Yes, absolutely.

That's such an aha moment for me. I was like, wow, that is a totally different lens. You can't be scared of selling when you know, you're selling for the right reasons and you're selling in a way that's gonna make someone's life better. I know that this is what you love to talk about, so I'm just so happy you're here today.

Thank you for having me. It's such an honor to be here.

So good. Well, let's get into it. Before we get into the nitty gritty of the hows, we've got to get back to the whys. So I would love to hear your story, your journey, how you went from corporate into your small business and everything that came after. Talk to me about how this all got started.

Yes. Well, first off, if you had told me that I was going to be in sales back when I was in my college days, I probably would have had that same mindset that you just described. Yeah, I don't want to be in sales. It doesn't feel right for me. It doesn't feel comfortable. And I had a college professor when I was a senior in college that made me interview for a technology sales job. And I am dear friends with her today. And we laugh because back then she said, andy, you're going to interview for this job and you're going to thank me later. And we always joke because I still to this day I'm like, thank you for making me interview for that job. Because 17 years later, I found myself still in technology sales and I ended up loving it. And it was not that I was good at it when I first started out, Ashley, I was probably terrible, but I just kept at it. Right?

Right.

And we're never good at something when we first start out. And I just kept at it and kept refining my approach. And the thing is, I had a product to sell and it's not like I could just scrap that product and go find a new product to sell. I had to keep at it and keep refining my approach to my customers. And so I had to learn how to get good at it. And that really, I think, set the foundation long term for when I became self employed and became an entrepreneur. And we were talking before we started recording, I during the pandemic, as most of us were sitting at home and you know, after work we couldn't go out. I was thinking, I need something to do and to occupy my time. So I started making candles and giving them to friends and family just to bring joy during a hard time. And I got really good feedback and I started selling them. And I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me that the Candle market is saturated because I would be rich and wouldn't need a candle company or a coaching company. But I really dug in and figured out how to differentiate my products and just had tenacity of getting my products out there. And so I started learning how to wholesale my products and it took several months to really figure it out. I made a lot of mistakes behind the scenes, but I quickly. My goal was to be in A4 wholesale accounts by the end of that year and by August I was in 120. So talk about learning how to scale quickly. So it has just been a fun adventure ever since and I have since scaled even more and just loving, loving it. Quit my, my corporate sales job and using, still using those sales skills, still have my candle company, but using all of that combined experience now to teach product makers how to start wholesaling their products and getting their products on boutique shelves.

What's so funny is I, if I had a dollar for every time I heard a wholesale company say when I first started, I had to Google what is wholesale? How do you wholesale? It's not something that, you know, you take a business class, you don't even learn much about what wholesaling is even then, right. Growing up. So go back to this. You start the candle company while you're still working corporate and all of a sudden it starts to take off.

Tell me about the very first iterations of wholesaling. How did you get your first couple.

Of stores and what were the most important lessons you learned right away at the beginning while you were still working corporate?

Yes, I literally would come home from my corporate job, or I should say I was still working from home at that time. I would hang up my corporate job and I would just start googling wholesale, you know, boutiques, right. And I would send them a letter, an email, and I would hear crickets for the first couple of months. But I just kept at it. And I know that on average, and I think that this number has even gone up since, since then, but it takes people seven times to even see your brand, to even consider buying from you. And so I knew that I couldn't just send one email, one pitch email and consider they've heard about me and they don't want my product. And I also knew if they said no, that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with my product or, you know, I can't take that personally. They may have just invested in a candle line. And so I just kept at it and I set a goal for myself. I'm going to send a certain number of pitch emails every day. And that just, that compound effect after two months just exploded in month three. And so that tenacity was really what I attribute my success to. And just refining my process so that when I started hearing yeses from retailers, I saw what they were responding to and I just took that email format and just kept on and kept on and kept on. And the nos I wasn't afraid to say to ask for feedback. And I got some hard to hear feedbacks, but some really valuable feedback that I was able to implement and then get a lot of yeses from that feedback too.

Okay, we've got to talk about that more because I think that's the reason, like hearing the no's is the reason a lot of people don't start in the first place or the reason people don't follow up. Like, I think it's easy to let yourself off the hook with, okay, I sent the pitch email. They didn't like it, they don't like me, they don't like my product. They didn't respond. But really the answer is always no, unless you continue to ask. So you have to follow up and follow up. I love that you said that. But when you did get that feedback, talk about taking that feedback and if you want to share what it was, that would be lovely. What can we learn from. From the nose?

Yes. So first off, I always say if you go ahead and have the mindset that you're going to hear no, then it's a lot easier to hear no.

Right.

Because it's. It's a numbers game. And if you just go ahead and expect that you're going to hear no, it's a lot easier when you do hear it. And so I had a dream retailer. This was a retailer that I really wanted to be in. So I sent them a pitch email. I actually even sent them some sample candles. And they actually were kind enough to tell me no. So when I say kind enough to tell me no, because a lot of times you just won't hear back. And so when they told me no, I just reached back out and said, thank you so much for responding. I would love any feedback that you have. I respect you guys. You've been in business for a long time. And what they said back was that my labels on my candles, they were attached with a ribbon. And she said they looked really cheap. And she said they're thin. You know, we don't want to put them on our boutique shelves because we're afraid, you know, they're not going to last very long. If like little kids come in, they could get bent really easily. Smudge. And I was like, wow, thank you so much for that feedback. So what I did is I implemented in my business, I outsourced my labels because I had been doing them in house. I, I was just starting out and I cut my labor time significantly because we're not making those labels anymore. I outsourced them to a local printer that did a phenomenal job. They look so much more professional, thicker card stock and had a, like a glossy cover to them, finish to them. And I had the most amazing feedback from my retailers that continued to order from me. They were like your labels, they look so much better. And I got a significant boost in sales after that. So that one. No, just from me asking feedback, even though that was hard to hear, I was so grateful for that.

That is awesome. I love that story. And it also kind of reminds you on the flip side, right? Like now you've got this business that's grown and it's scaled and now you realize how valuable your feedback can be for other people along the way rather than harboring that and holding it in just sharing. Because what an opportunity it is to make somebody better. I think about that even like as a boss, like you remember like your first couple of bosses and you're like, oh, that one was really hard, but I really needed that. Or teachers, that one was really hard, but I really needed that. That's so helpful. So at this point, so you make some adjustments, things start to change and to scale. At what point did you decide, okay, now it's time for me to leave corporate?

Yes. So I had just been scaling so much that I had actually hired a somewhat kind of in between part time and full time operations manager. And I knew I needed to get my candle business out of my house at this point. And so we moved that out of my house and started a boutique storefront on the front of our candle studio. So it's kind of a hybrid candle studio open concept where people could come in and see us pour our candles, which is really fun. And then we had a boutique and had our candles and some complimentary products that went along with our candles and home decor and gifts. And so I knew that if I spent time pouring into my business the time that I was spending at my day job, then I could really make an impact. And so that was really when I just started thinking about it and praying about it and just the doors opened and I knew it was the right time. And so that was October of 2023. So it's been about a year and a half now. And through some different communities on Facebook, primarily candle maker communities, people just started reaching out and asking me questions about how I left my corporate job, how I was able to do that, how I got into wholesaling. And, and so I decided, you know what, I'm just going to develop a course and start teaching this and kind of organically a community formed. And now I have, I've taught several hundred students and they've all. It's really fun just to see their success and see their products now on shelves. And I love the Boutique Hub has, you know, community over competition. And I think even in the, in the candle industry there's a lot of competition because everyone thinks that the market is so saturated. Right. And so I really strive that there's space for everyone and so really have just created that community atmosphere and it's, it's been really, really fun. So, so awesome.

And I, I mean, I know exactly how you feel like there's nothing like being able to pour into other people and then experience their journey with them and see the growth and the evolution over time. I just think that is so special. And the community over competition piece is absolutely critical. So, yeah, when you're think especially like in candles, because I think there's still people even in the boutique industry that hold on to competition. Yeah, A little more than they should.

Have you thought about what it really.

Takes to scale, to break through where.

You'Re at right now in your business and overcome some of the most common hurdles that we see in businesses trying to just become more profitable or to build more time into their personal calendar and to get their life back while they run a business that can operate without them. Well, that's what we do inside of retail business boot camp here at the Boutique Hub. Two semesters a year, once in January and Once in June, 14 weeks of live group coaching. And inside, I want to share with you, there are some very common obstacles we see retailers facing that are simple fixes to help you break through to that next level. But it all has to come in order. You know, I often hear people say.

Hey, Ashley, should I just run Facebook.

Ads for more traffic? And they think that's going to solve all of their problems. But the truth is you can't run Facebook ads or add more traffic if you don't have the right products or know your customer or have a team and efficient processes built into your business. So inside of Retail Bootcamp, there's a six Layer strategy that we go through step by step with your business all the way from foundations and branding and your ideal customer to CEO and leadership management to building a team and profitability being a profit first business understanding inventory management in turn retail math and formulas all the way up through sales strategy, e commerce merchandising, all of the content management, management of all of your social media channels, emails, text and of course Facebook ads. But we saved the best for last. So if you're interested in joining us and deep diving into scaling your business, no matter what you sell and whether you're new or you're a multi million dollar brand just trying to break through to the next level, Retail Bootcamp has something for you.

So check out our link in the.

Show notes and enroll in Retail Bootcamp right now.

Tell me about when you're coaching somebody and encouraging them on different ways to stand out from the crowd. How do you approach that? How do you approach helping them find what their unique, you know, proposition really is and helping them stand out in a crowded market?

Yeah, so this is a great question. I really go back to the root of why they started their business and what brings them joy, what brings them passion. Right. I think a lot of people can look at candles as just a commodity. You can go find candles in almost any store you walk in. You can look at that as, okay, there's no room for me in the industry. Or you can look at that as there are candles in every store and almost every store carries multiple lines of candles. So you can look at that from a scarcity mindset or from an opportunity mindset. And so I really work to change their mindset, but to look at it of what brings you joy and why did you start your business? And so hundreds of candle makers that I have talked to, I have never seen two candle makers have the exact same products and the exact same reason for starting. And so I'll give you a couple of specific examples. One of my clients, she started because her husband had major headaches from some of the chemicals that are in some candles out there. And so she started out and her line is known for the cleanest candles and beeswax and organic ingredients. And that's really how she markets her candle line. I have another lady who created a candle line to honor veterans because her husband was a Marine. And and so that's really her market. And so everyone has their own story and their own unique niche. And so I really kind of find out what is important to them, what brings joy to them and really work that into Their marketing into their target audience. And that's one of the fun things, because there's room for everyone. And you really just have to dig in and figure out what your spaces.

That's so good. It's so funny when you say that. It reminds me of this, this analogy, this story that I heard one time, and it was about the shoe salesman and the shoe salesman or the shoe company, and the shoe company sends the shoe salesman to Africa. And this is many, many years ago. And the salesman comes back and he's like, this is never going to work. I can't sell shoes in Africa. Nobody's wearing shoes. They don't need the shoes. Come back. And the company says, okay, you're out going to send the next guy. The next guy goes to Africa. Pretty soon he writes him a letter and he says, send all the shoes you possibly can. There's unbelievable opportunity here. No one wears shoes. And I just think that mindset is so true in business. Like, you can either look at the glasses half empty or the glass is half full, and the opportunity is always going to be what you make. So when you think about, like, those mindsets that I think get in a lot of people's way, what other mistakes do you see, especially women, because I think we have a lot of mindsets, again, our way. What are other mistakes you see women make in terms of mindset or just like their philosophy in selling, period? What other obstacles do you feel like they have to overcome?

I think you hit on one at the very beginning, and that is the fear we see out in our culture today. A lot of bad examples of selling. Pushy, slimy, selling. Sometimes I use the word like those bro tactics, right? And so what I always say, and if, when any of my clients are going to listen to this, they're going to say, oh, my goodness, she's a broken record. But I really, truly believe this is that when you have a product or a service that helps people, you owe it to the world to share about it. And that truly serves people. Why would you ever keep that to yourself? And it's the same thing that when you, you, you know, share about a new restaurant, a favorite new restaurant, and you share that with your. Your best friend, why would you keep that to yourself? You always want to talk about it. And so when you have a product or a service that you know brings value to the world, you owe it to share about it. And you can do that in a way that is authentic to who you are, who God created you to be, and not be pushy and not cross boundaries. And I have seen some of the best salespeople that I have seen in over 18 years of being in sales have been introverts. And they have just been able to connect, genuinely connect with people. And that is so encouraging to see. And it's just by simply asking questions and finding out what brings value and brings joy to the other person and then saying, I have a product that meets your need. And it also means that when you find out what the other person's need and their goal is, when your product doesn't meet their need, you say, I can't help you, but I know someone that can and pointing them in the right direction. And that is what a confident salesperson, a confident woman in business does. They're not afraid to say, no, I can't help you. Someone else can conserve you better. And, and that's okay to do too. You know, I think that's why the.

Idea of a slimy salesperson, I think that's where that comes from, is not being able to do that because it's saying, no, I've got to help you at all costs. My. You need my product no matter what, whether it really helps you or not. So I love that.

And that speaks right to community over competition.

Yes. Because if you can't help them, you.

Do know somebody who can.

And you can collaborate with these other brands who can serve the need. And that only comes back to shed positive light on you at the end of the day. So I think that's so, so good when you're besides these mindsets. Right. And the stories that we tell ourselves. When you're coaching somebody, you're coaching a wholesale business and their products just aren't selling. How do you help them evaluate what it is, what is the reason that their products aren't selling?

Yeah, so I generally, and it's usually 99% of the time, by the time we get to that point, if it's a product issue, we've already addressed that. So usually it would be a product packaging issue or something like that. We've already addressed that. So I usually always say it's not a product issue, it will be a pricing issue or it will be a messaging issue. And we need to refine our messaging approach. We need to define our. Whether it's product descriptions or it's product photos. That's something that so many times I see as especially, you know, all of your boutique owners out there are going to hear this and they're going to say, you know, when you're shopping Online or, you know, unless you're at a trade show and you can see it in person, that's the first thing you see, right? And so your product may be amazing, your packaging may be amazing, but if your product photos look like they're taken by you in a dark corner of your house, no one's going to buy. So your product may be great, but we need to refine your, your photos, your messaging. So those are all things that we address and we talk about and those are some hard conversations sometimes because they do take investing in your business. But that's why it's called an investment, because you get a return on investment by getting orders. At the end of the day, I.

Look at it like you're kind of stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime, you know, like you're, you're stepping over this opportunity to make more sales, be it by investing in product photography or like you said, investing in higher quality packaging. Like you're trying to just get by and save money here, but it's costing you 10x over here by doing that. So the investment piece, that's a huge mindset. I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that. Boutique owners too. Yeah, I see that with new boutique owners too. I just was doing a bunch of website audits this week and as I went through people's sites I was like, nobody's gonna buy this because a it's stock photo from, you know, whatever Chinese site you just bought this off of. So I don't even know what it.

Is that you're selling and that they're.

You know, these other photos that you did take are dark or they're blurry or they're all kinds of different sizes or whatever it might be. So I think that's spot on advice. Go back to the pricing though that you talked about. I think that just like when you step over a dollar to pick up a dime in terms of, you know, the front end work, I think that we do that a lot in our pricing too. Thinking if it's cheaper, they'll buy it. But yes, she ain't loyal. How do you help them address that?

So this is one thing I see all the time, and especially I don't know why. And it's probably not just candle makers. I just, I have so much exposure to candle makers, but they price so low. But you look out here at some of the really popular brands, they are not pricing their candles low. And you are seeing these brands in almost every boutique. So I always say that and I point these brands to my clients and I say, you know, there is a consumer mindset out there too. If you really study, you know, buyer behavior and consumer behavior that oftentimes a less expensive price is associated, associated with a lower quality.

Right.

And so if they don't know your brand name and they see a low price, then that boutique owner a lot of times is going to associate that with a low quality. And so you have to think about that. Especially if you don't have your product packaging like perfectly done and luxury in your photos and your descriptions that are SEO optimized to drive traffic, then your price can. Your lower price can actually hurt. And so, and then I also see a lot of wholesalers, they don't understand or they, they don't understand, you know, keystone pricing, but then they only play to keystone pricing. And so they're really not doing a lot of market research and they're leaving profit on the table and, and so really just not utilizing an optimized pricing strategy. So that, that really hurts a lot of wholesale brands. And ultimately you're gonna go out of business, you know, working that way.

Absolutely. It's not that you're gonna sell in some kind of special bulk or volume. Right. You're just leaving money on the table. That's so good. We could talk all day just on strategy alone, truly. All right, well, Andy, I've got some lightning round questions for you. This has been so much fun. You've dropped so many great bombs already. But you can answer these either on behalf of, like, yourself, how you would approach it, or like how you're encouraging your clients to approach these things. So first one is, if I give you two hours back in your day only to work on income generating activity, what do you focus on first?

Ooh, only to work on income generating activity. It would be retailer outreach. I mean, that's number one. That would generate income for my business.

Absolutely. What has been the hardest lesson you've had to learn in business?

To not give up. Not give up and like scrap your original idea just because it didn't work the first time. Yeah, it may be a great idea. You just need to refine your approach.

Awesome. What do you think is the unsexiest process in your business that has the most impact?

It's probably that retailer outreach, sending those pitch emails, but it has such a powerful impact on my business.

Actually, I've got to double down on this. Not a lightning round question, but I wanted to ask you this earlier. Back to those pitch emails. What do you think is important to include in Those pitch emails. What have you found? It has to include these things. Couple of things, yes.

I actually have a, like a full, like process that I call like the simple formula that I include. And so one of the things I really am big on not sending mass emails. And the reason I do that is because I want the retailer to feel heard and it should feel personal. And so I always research the retailer and make sure that I include something personal about them, you know, whether it's something I found on Instagram or on their website. And so following my formula, I make it very personal and address them and then I make the ordering process very easy. I, you know, kind of provide a hook of some, an incentive for them to order from me, make the ordering process very easy and just give my contact information where they can order from me. Here's my contact information. But I never send mass emails. That could be a lot easier. But the reality is is they're never going to respond to you. So yeah, I have a very simple. I actually call it the simple formula. So it's like six things that I put in the email. But that is what I include.

So yeah, I love that. Making them feel important every step of the way. What has been the best business advice that someone's given you that just always sticks with you along the way?

This is so good. This is actually from my mentor from my corporate days and I still meet with him once a month now. He hired me for my very first management job in tech sales and he signed said always seek to understand. Seek to understand and assume positive intent. And where I take that now as a business owner is when I have a customer sat issue, because you're going to have them, whether you're a boutique owner or a wholesale product wholesaler, is you're going to have customers that, you know, have problems or whatnot, but seek to understand where they're coming from and assume positive intent and you can turn those customer problems into raving fans. And when you take that mindset and you really work to partner with them, those have been some of the best customers when I have taken that mindset. And so that's been the best business advice.

It's so true. Because I think human nature is to be so defensive.

Yes.

And to just either write that person off or I think about getting a negative review on social media or on Google and it's easy to just like, oh, I'm going to delete it. I don't want anyone to see what they said about me. But I mean, if you follow any of These big corporate brands, like I'll say Wendy's, Wendy, Wendy's on X. If you follow Wendy's on X and.

You see how they speak to customers, it's awesome.

And if someone's upset, how they handle it, like, it's funny but it's relatable. I think if we can take that approach of just being relatable and seeking positive or seeking to understand and then assuming the positive intent piece, man, the customer service thing can turn into such a positive experience at the end of.

The day and then it really boosts your brand as well. If you become known for that, like you were just saying Wendy's, then that will spread, you know, people. You will become known for that.

So, yeah. So true. So good. Well, I've got one last question for you, Andy. This has been so awesome. I have loved having you on the show, by the way. Thank you. Yeah, there's so many nuggets. I hope everyone takes away a ton of ton of information. And of course, you know, we'll link up all of your links, your information if anyone wants to get in touch with you. We'll have all of that in the show notes today.

But last question is this.

So we're in the product sales business, you know, retail and wholesale. And I think, and I know that you agree with this, when we look at our businesses in our lives, it's not about selling something. It's not about the widget that we're working on today.

So when you look at your own.

Life 30 years down the road and you're reflecting back on everything you've created and the lives that you've touched and the journey you've been on, what's the thing that you really want people to remember most about the person you are and how you live this life?

What a great question that I use my gifts and my talents and my skills ultimately to love others well. And for me to glorify God, to just serve and that I did so with integrity and character. So, yeah, ultimately, what, what is life if it is not about doing it well and with joy and intention and purpose?

So good. Well, this has been incredible today. Andy, thanks so much for being on the show. It has been awesome to have you here.

Thank you so much, Ashley. It was an honor to be here.

Thanks for listening, guys. I hope you took away all kinds of nuggets and new ideas from this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a rating and review. We love to hear your feedback and give you a chance to be featured on the show each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and to access guest downloads and bonuses and all the resources we talked about on the show, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.