#816: The Future of Retail Is Personal: Styling, Community & Customer Loyalty

Welcome to the Boutique Chat Podcast, where we're gonna help you build a profitable, sustainable business without you having to sacrifice your profitability, your family, or your sanity. Each week we're gonna dive into real conversations with retailers who have been exactly where you are and industry experts so you can learn and know exactly what to do next, all in community over competition. Whether you're just getting started or you're growing past an 8-figure business, you're in the right spot. So let's get into it. Welcome to this week's episode. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast this week. I'm so happy to have you here. And Lindsay, I'm so happy to have you on the show this week. Thanks for joining me.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be with you today. We got a lot to talk about.

We got a lot to talk about. We're gonna squirrel today, but you have quite the story. You have built quite the community, and I love having women on the podcast that are big thinkers. Think outside the box, right? Think a little bit differently than the rest of the crowd. So I would love to know, let's go back to the beginning. You are one stylish woman. I would love to know, how did you get started in the business? Where did your original ideas come from? Was fashion and retail something you always loved, or was it—

was it an industry found me as opposed to me finding it? Um, you know, I was, I was actually raised by by a single mom, and I grew up in an affluent community, but we weren't— didn't grow up like, like that. So my grandmother owned a consignment store growing up, so I literally grew up on the counter of her consignment store. So being surrounded by this tribe of hardworking, creative women was just in my blood from the jump. Um, gosh, I remember she'd let me do the jewelry cases and I dressed the mannequins in the window. But I think the most formative part for me was that seeing that fashion could be accessible to everybody, every budget, every size, every shape, every person. So not even knowing that I was learning a lesson early on, I was kind of absorbing that lesson. So fast forward, I want to say I was, gosh, in my 20s. I was living in downtown Los Angeles. That was working as a stylist part-time, was in the fashion business, and we lived in the wholesale district in downtown LA.

Been there many times.

Oh God, you know. Yep. Rough, rough, rough. A block from Skid Row. And I said, you know, I'm going to buy some jewelry and I'm going to build myself a pushcart. And I'm gonna try and sell jewelry on the street of LA. Why not? Because it's something I can do on my own time that I— and I can control if and when, rather than waiting for the next shoot or the next client to have the need. I said I need to create my own, uh, source of income that was a little more reliable. So I decorated this plastic bar cart I bought from Sears. I painted an umbrella and I stuck it in the middle and I wheeled it down the street and it was covered in cheap jewelry from Downtown LA. And I took $70. Straight from DTLA. Straight from— I do know Downtown LA! Straight from DTLA. I'm not kidding! You're not kidding. You do know DTLA. So I took my DTLA jewelry right downtown on my painted pushcart. And I remember I took $70 worth of an investment to do this. At the end of the day, I had about $300. And I said, ooh, that was fun. So I took the $300, I bought more, and I wheeled it in downtown LA. Then I had $900, and it just kept happening. So this is what I mean with the business found me. I didn't really find it. It was never my intention to have this like booming franchise brand across the country. Like, I don't— I did not think like that one iota. It was more just kind of evolved step by step. Into what it is now. But that was really the backstory. And it just kept doing that again and again and again and again. And here we are. And here we are 20 years later.

Oh my gosh. Everything happens for a reason. I love that. And I can so relate. Like, so many people listening have been to downtown LA. They've been to the wholesale. We take tours, groups of people there every year. But it's intimidating and it's rough. There's nothing like your first experience in Joya when you're just completely overwhelmed in the best way possible. So I love this evolution. And I've got to wrap this back. You said it was your grandmother's consignment store, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm just envisioning you, you know, this little girl just loving all the things that are coming in, and probably gave you such a foundational appreciation for really good pieces, really good brands, like timeless things. Like, do you remember if you could go back to that time, was there like a piece or a brand or something that you were like so attached to because it came through that consignment business?

Yeah. You know, I think that she had a little area of furs. I mean, let's face it, this is the late '90s where, you know, PETA wasn't knocking down your door. So there was a vintage rack of furs and that was always really luxurious to me to see women leave in these like gorgeous but really inexpensive furs. But I think the thing that I love most about fashion, what drives me now to do what I do, is that I really understand the power and transformation of fashion. So I was, I think it's important to note that I was the biggest nerd you've ever met in your life growing up. So I was painfully shy. I mean painfully shy. And I was, you know, 5'8" at age 7. So you can only imagine, you know, how it doesn't feel good on a young girl to be towering above everybody else. So for me, I was able to find confidence and find who I was through fashion and being able to wear these clothes that I got from her store, The Treasure Chest, and to put them on, and I could literally be transformed. Formed, and it really did change the trajectory of my life and allowed me to be who I am today. And it's so, so powerful, and it's not an industry to be taken lightly.

Isn't that so true? I think that, um, I think that there's so many retailers that I am blessed to talk to on a daily basis that do take that for granted a little bit. We assume that because we have the gift of styling pieces, you know, knowing what to wear for what body type, like how to put the whole look together, or home and gift boutiques, right, who can do the same thing for your home, living room, kitchen, whatever. We take that for granted and we think that everyone has that skill. Well, of course I would know how to wear these things. But the truth is, you know, and you see this, Lindsay, the people will come in and they're like, well, I'll just take the whole look off the mannequin. Or, Lindsay, that outfit that you're wearing, I'll just— I would have never put that together myself. I'll just take the whole look. Like, what a gift to be able to give people that, but then to see it transform, how confident they become when they wear something that's so well put together. So I love that you called that out. So true.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, for us, at least with Bobbles and Lace now, we've really evolved into being these styling studios because I think I understand the fact that shopping can be stressful and it's, it's not an inclusive industry. It is certainly is not. It's ageist. It's, you know, it's sizist. It's everythingist. Um, you look at the pages of any magazine or look at the runways. I mean, we're so far off from being a place of inclusion. I can see how it's hard to go into a store and be like, "Ah, come on." I mean, as I'm a 45-year-old woman and it is an exclusive industry. So we really are looking, our whole mission is to make shopping fun again and to make shopping something that is transformative and a fun experience as opposed to just an exclusive, transaction.

I think that's so good, so true. So, all right, take me back to this Joya Barkhart. So from there you start to grow this— okay, like, oh, this is retail, right? Buy, sell, hamster wheel. How did that turn into your first retail business, your first boutique, your first storefront?

Yeah, well, I didn't have, you know, a background in retail besides, you know, growing up in a consignment store. So I never worked at a store prior to this. So I was working as a stylist at the time. And so when me— I decided after a couple of years in LA to move back home. So my husband and I moved back to where I'm from, which is in Marblehead. My aunt actually owned a jewelry store called Baubles. And so I said, hey, let's join forces because I at the time had pivoted to selling clothing. I had a mobile clothing boutique in California. So I said, let's join forces and open a really cool store, um, with both clothing and jewelry. So we ended up keeping her name Bobbles, and then we added the lace. So that was me. And we opened our first store in April 2008 in a small beachy town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. And, you know, we, we did it on a budget. We bought, um, tables from Goodwill and painted them slack. Like, we really did everything ourselves and when clients invested every penny we had. And so when clients came in, you know, I wasn't just trying to sell them something, I was styling them. I didn't know how to do anything different. Like, I was doing what I learned how to do. So very early we learned that our— the space is this, the shopping atmosphere is set up really well to create these styling spaces. So, naturally, it just evolved from 1 store to 2 stores to 3 stores to 8 stores. And then 3 years ago, we actually decided to franchise, and now we have, God, almost 30 stores strong across the country. But it was not this like strategic, you know, thing that we planned from the pushcart days to now. It definitely was a slow-rolled evolution.

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No, she retired almost 10 years ago, but, um, she's in town and, you know, we still have a lot of family that works in the business.

So one of the most pivotal moments of many businesses when they get started is moving from that first location to the second, the third. It can be tricky. Would you go back and say like, what were some of the most pivotal lessons you learned early in those first 3 stores that gave you the bandwidth and the ability to expand at that point? Because some people try to expand too fast and can actually really be a detriment to the business, right? Versus something positive. So what do you, what do you feel like helped you foundationally?

Well, I think it's really important to have a team. And to have a team of trusted people. So I was so blessed in the fact that I had family that I could help, you know, you trust inherently to be able to have the business's best interest in mind. I mean, I had a partner, so that was so, so important. But if you don't have that team, you have to build it. So I see it all too often that, that people start to grow, they have these big plans without the invest investment of the proper team or the training of the right team. But I think you need to have that in place before anything because this is a people business.

Absolutely it is. And do you feel like, I mean, it's the team and it's the systems and processes and SOPs that you're able to hand off and duplicate with that team. Some boutique owners are great at being both right brain and left brain. Others struggle and have to find somebody to complement them and be the opposite. Um, how— like, tell me more about that process for you. Do you feel like the systems, the processes, the operations, whatever you could create that was duplicatable, was that something that was easier or harder for you? Or did you find the right person to support you in building those out?

Yeah, you know, I think that when I think about the word team, I literally think about my son's soccer team. And so what builds a great team is you think about the skill set of your players. So for myself I'm very disorganized, but I can— but I'm the hardest working you ever met and I'm very creative. So I know on my team I need to have people who are really organized. So my partner was extremely organized, Valerie, who retired. And I also want to say team. I also mean not just your in-store team, but the backbones of your team, having a great accountant. So important to the team. Having people you can trust to bounce ideas off of. So I always called them like my council. They're not a paid council, but it was my husband, it was my dad, it was my mom. It was, you know, it's people on the council that you can run ideas off of and who can tell you, no, Lindsay, that's a stupid idea. Or, you know what, I like that idea. So having a team is so, so important and knowing where to put those players and how to play those players.

I think that's so critical. It's funny that you mentioned, you know, most successful retailers that I know are just like you in the sense that we would say, "Oh, we're a little ADHD, like we're a little all over the place, like we've got these crazy big ideas." But what you said is so spot on, right? Like your aunt, you have to have both players together. So the visionary and the integrator so that you've got the big thinker and then you've got the doer who can back up the big thinker. I think every single business owner needs those two components.

So that's so good.

What other, um, in those first couple of stores, those first like 8 stores, what do you— I like to think of these as like happy accidents. What do you think were maybe some of the biggest mistakes you made right off the bat that allowed you to learn and grow the most?

Uh, let's see, the, the biggest mistakes I've made, there's been a gazillion. And you know, it's funny, I don't look back and think those are huge mistakes that I made. I look back and I think that That's what got me here, being able to make those mistakes. I mean, I still make mistakes on the daily, you know, a promotional idea or I'll have an idea to do a men's style or this or that. And but none of them are really failures because it gets you to where you don't know if it's going to work unless you try it. But now you know it doesn't work, so you can try the next. So it's constant innovation, innovation and constant mistakes. I mean, I could write a book more of the mistakes. In the wind sometimes. But what's great is that after, you know, 16 years in, we made the decision to franchise. And one of the greatest gifts I can give as a franchisor is the gift of mistakes. I've made them for you. And so now you can go with a playbook and you know how to do it because I learned how not to.

Exactly. Exactly. Are there any big ones that stand out? If you're not winning, you're learning. What are those early lessons that you feel like stand out?

Um, I think that obviously, um, location of your store is super important. Um, you know, you have to have the right ingredients there when you're looking at location. That's something that is going to work with you or work against you. Um, so that's a huge one. I also think your rent number is a huge one. It's the biggest driver on your P&L. So you need to make sure that you're aware of what that rent number is going to do to your profitability and your net margin at the end. Um, and then even team management. Like, personally, for me at least, managing a team is the hardest part of being a business owner, at least from, from my perspective. Um, so, you know, I've really learned what to look for in, in team— in, uh, employees. And I think that that's, that's been— I think I've probably been burned by that the most if I had to look back.

The most painful mistakes. I think we all agree, right? That's not the thing you get into the business for. You love the product and the people you serve and all the things. But I mean, there can be wonderful team members and wonderful experiences, but there's some major bumps in the road for sure.

Especially, and especially when you're an entrepreneur and you're so passionate about your business of what you're doing and your life and livelihood is on the line. It's, it's, you know, it's, we take everything so personally. So you think about these relationships that you've had with employees over the years or leaders, and it's, it's, it's can be really painful to think about some of those experiences in the past. But I think that, um, you just learn to be a better leader.

That's exactly right. Those are all, those are all leadership abilities, right? Learning to overcome those things.

I wish I read more about leadership as, as a growing business, business owner. That's one thing I wish I could go back and do. I didn't really think about— I don't think any entrepreneur really thinks about this, any industry, as being a good leader. They think about it as being an inspiring founder, but how to be a good leader is something totally different, and it takes work and it takes learning. So I know it wasn't until, I want to say, God, a few years ago that I started doing a lot of reading on leadership and podcasts and listening and how to be a great leader. But that's definitely something that you don't think about when starting a business. It's, it's the last thing you think about, right?

I totally agree. I totally agree. Being a great leader and being a great CEO, like, those are totally different skill sets than just being an entrepreneur who figured out how to start a business.

Yes.

So we talk about this a ton in the Hub, just moving from entrepreneur mindset to CEO mindset and what servant leadership— like, what does that really look like? There's no room for ego. Like, it is the most humbling experience you could walk through, right? I just totally agree. I don't think we talk about that enough.

Yeah. And I'm 20 years in as an entrepreneur, but I consider myself a baby leader in the sense that I've really been purposeful and actionable about learning to be a better leader. And it does take learning. It takes so much learning. I mean, I try to rotate between a smut book and a learning book. I have to read like a— A fairy book and then I read like a leadership book. Right?

It's like a little treat, right? Oh my gosh. So I mean, knowing that, what you've been studying, what you've been learning, what do you think, like, you know, for any store owner that's listening, what do you think are 3 like big important aspects of leadership? Like if there was 3 leadership abilities you were gonna say these are important, what would they be?

Great. I'm glad you're asking this and it's actually very serendipitous. So I'm in the back room of one of my stores right now. We have a director's meeting today. So we just had a conversation on leadership. So this is nice and fresh at the front of my brain, but I think that a really great one is that leaders go first. That's a huge one, and it's a really good one to remember. Leaders always go first. So you will see me in every store, you know, I'm taking the trash out if it needs to be done. I can't ask anything of my teams that I am not ready and willing to do always. So no one's going to do it if they don't see it being done. So that's a really Really great one. And then, you know, I learned this one from my dad at an early age because it can be really challenging as a woman to give direct feedback. It can be really hard. I mean, you hear the word Karens and like the world has created the word Karen. So now I think women are all fearful to be a Karen, especially if you're a mature woman like myself. But you shouldn't have to apologize for for asking. Being firm but fair is a really great leadership. You can be firm as long as you're fair about it and what you're saying. That's number 2. The third one I'd probably say is that clear is kind. Oh, so good. It's so true. So many times in leadership, I'll have a director complaining about their team, they don't know this, or I'll have a franchise owner saying, "My manager's XYZ," and just complains. And you always have to pause and ask, did you talk to them first? Most problems are communication problems and people can't read our brains. So being really clear about what's in it is great and it doesn't have to be this big thing. Clear is kind.

I am gonna write that on a Post-it note and remember that every single day. That is so true. I would say out of all the team problems I've ever had, 99.9% of them our communication problems, just like you're saying. And I think women, we're especially guilty of this because we are storytellers. Men are very right, like their brains are, they fit into boxes, right? Like they can compartmentalize all that. But we're constantly telling ourselves a story. And so it's so easy to get on a track of, well, they should know, or they should assume, or, you know, I don't know, just make up some kind of story. But did you actually communicate it? And then this kind of goes along your second and third point together, but someone once told me there's a difference in being nice and being kind. So being nice is being fluffy, like, oh, you know, I just only tell them the good things. I don't tell them the things they really need to work on. I'm just, you know, fluffy, nice-ing, all my compliments, right? But being kind is telling them the thing they really need to hear because it's the best possible thing for them and their future selves.

Correct. So the two of them— having food in your teeth, it's like food in your teeth. Like, it's, it's, it's kinder to tell me than to not. Do the kind thing, not the nice thing. The nice thing is to not tell me. The kind thing is to tell me. So I agree with you 100%.

Okay, these are so good. I love that. So kind of going off of that, since you've, you've grown the business, you've decided to expand franchise, you've got these great locations. When people come to you and they're interested in franchising and you're— you kind of have to do the litmus test, like These people are going to be representing my brand. Is this going to be a good fit? Is this not? What are the leadership abilities or just the, the abilities in general that you're looking for in people to become franchisees that you think have the highest rate of success?

So it's a really interesting question, and I think that it's changed over the course of since we began. We first began, we're like, who wants to franchise? Do you have a pulse? Let's do it.

You know what I mean?

And now, and now it's completely shifted because we ultimately are only successful if of our franchisees are successful, and it definitely takes a certain type of person. This is not get rich fast. Even if we give you the playbook on how to do it, you need to do the work. It is hard. So I, I think that for, for, for our organization, I really wanna look for franchise owners who are coachable. Because if you're not coachable and you think you can do it better, you're never gonna succeed in this industry because there's always something to learn. And that's something that you can't really teach. I can't really teach you being coachable. And you're also working within a brand that you didn't build and create, so you have to be able to adapt to this brand vision of ours. So if you can't adapt to this bigger picture brand vision, it's never gonna work. Um, so those are some— those are probably the biggest ones that we, that we look for, is that you do embody the culture of the brand. And, and are you coachable in this? You know, are you going to listen to our feedback? Um, and of course, we're always— we have so many great owners that we're learning so much from. So it does become a, a dialogue as well. It comes a, a learning system. But you do have to be ready and willing to, to read the, the playbook, because we have it and it works, I can assure you.

Yeah, isn't that— it's funny because the exact same thing is true at the Boutique Hub. Like, when we're coaching on whatever it is, or just talking about like the latest thing that's happening in the industry, it's one thing to learn it and to hear it, or just to see it and to hear it. It's a whole nother thing to actually do the work and implement it. And that's anything in life, right? That's a gym membership. That's anything and everything.

That's just—

What about like your most successful stores? If you look across your most successful franchises, what do you feel like those stores have in common?

It's so funny 'cause we measure success in so, so many ways. Yeah. But for Bobbles and Lace, at least, you know, we're really looking to be active participants in the community and to have long-term clientele. So I'm taking this call right now from the backroom of our Marblehead store where we opened almost 20 years ago. So, you know, we had girls here that were shopping with us in high school that are now, you know, working and they come in with their kids and this and they're buying their kids outfits. It's pretty crazy. So, you know, we're looking for that longevity and to build relationships with our clients. So I think that that's really the meat and potatoes of it.

You think your most successful stores, they've built relationships, long-term relationships with their clients?

Yeah, it's really about digging into the community, which you have to be an active participant. You can't just sit around and wait for the doors to open. You have to be involved in the community, and that can look so many different ways. So, you know, when they purchase a franchise with us, they're getting our brand on their door, but they, you have to be involved in the community. So, and that means going to other store events. That means giving to silent auctions in the town. That means participating in local town events, really getting your hands dirty in your local marketing and being involved in the school PTOs. Like it's so, so important because this is a relationship business. It's all a relationship business. You know, it's, it's also our most successful stores if we're talking about revenue aren't always the stores that have the highest revenue because of course you look at their profit margin on the bottom. So if you look at all the expenses of everything, how much are you really making? So we have a store that brings in triple of any other store, and then we have a store that makes a third of that store, but they make more at the end of the day. Because they're handling their bottom line, they're buying right, they have, you know, they only pay like $3,000 a month in rent, which is awesome. So they really manage their payroll. So it's not just about top line sales. I think if you're looking at dollars on the table, it's about how you're managing both top line and bottom line sales that is adding to the success of that business.

It's absolutely critical. It's, I think, you know, there's, there's so much focus on social media today. Like, anybody can talk about their sales, right? Anyone can say, 'Oh, I'm a multi-million dollar business.' But at the end of the day, what, what did you put in your bank account? How much of that did you keep, right? It's not what you make, it's what you're able to keep or what you're able to reinvest, how you're able to give back, however you want to measure success. So I totally agree with that. I think there's a lot of room for all kinds of store owners to get better at understanding those numbers and what drives those numbers. Along the way.

For sure. I mean, one of our stores last month had a 30% of their profits were going to payroll. I was like, you're never gonna make money. You're never gonna make money. It's, it's so— you have to control every single line item there. Yeah. No matter how good your sales are. Yeah.

When you get together with all of your, uh, franchisees and you're talking about the future of this business, right, and, um, the biggest opportunities but the biggest threats? What do you guys see? What's, what's on your horizon in both? What do you think's coming down the road, biggest opportunities and biggest threats?

So I am so excited for what's to come. I think a lot of people are looking at this whole AI, um, future of ours, this really computer-driven world that's coming, and they're, um, a little fearful of it. They don't quite know how it's going to look. But I think we do things a little differently where, where we are going away from the digital and we really hone in on that face-to-face client experience. We had an opportunity years ago. We're like, do we want to make an investment into the website and push it that way? Or do we want to focus on— it just didn't feel right to us because what we do is make relationships and trust clients. For time and times to come. And it doesn't translate when you're doing it across the screen. It just doesn't translate. Nothing beats human interaction. So where so many companies are going towards self-checkout— I know Zara, I went the other day and they had the self-checkout— it just, it's, it's, it's, to me, it's, it's— we're going the other way. The other way. We want more interaction and less of that. So I, I think that's what's gonna set us apart. And I do believe that other businesses are gonna catch onto this as well.

I love that. I think so. The trend is analog, right? Like the more AI-driven we become, and don't get me wrong, like I'm a huge e-commerce girl. I think it's awesome, but it, you have to decide what's right for you, right? Yeah. What works for one isn't gonna work for everyone. But I think analog, no matter what, is critical. Being offline, being human to human, having real human emotion. That in-store experience that a boutique can offer will never be replaced by a Zara, a mall, a Walmart, a Target, a you-name-insert-the-brand-here, even Nordstrom. They are not an independent or franchised boutique. Totally different experience.

Yeah, so I'm excited for it because I think it's going to continue to set us apart. Um, so I'm not really afraid of it, to be honest. I'm very excited.

Okay, so good. I love your answer. Okay, let's, let's do a little lightning round. Are you good with that? I've got some fast questions.

Yeah, I'm good on my feet. I'm quick on my feet.

All right, I like it. Okay, Lindsay, um, I give you 2 hours back in your day to focus on income-generating activity. What do you focus on first?

Um, local marketing.

Local marketing.

Local marketing. Local marketing.

What has been the unsexiest process that drives the most impact in your business?

Reading the books, looking at P&Ls, and looking at your numbers and looking at spreadsheets. Spreadsheets.

Yes.

They're so unsexy. Yes.

I love asking. Are you a freak in the sheets? Are you a freak in the spreadsheets? You have to be as a business owner, right? You get like a mug that has that.

Oh, people think it's so glamorous all the time. It's not that glamorous to be in bed at 3 in the morning because I had a sleepless night about something on sheets and I'm typing it up. It's not sexy.

Seriously, it is not sexy. Yesterday I was in it so much. My stinking blue light glasses, I should put them back on, but yesterday I was in it so much I got a migraine from I'm staring at the stupid computer and I'm like, this is what being a business owner is all about.

It is.

Okay.

It is.

It is. It is. Okay. Next question. Uh, what's been the best business advice that you received that always sticks with you?

I would say it's sometimes, what's the saying? Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.

Mm. Solid. If you're not winning, you're learning. I love that. Yeah. Okay, so you said freaking the sheets. What is one metric that you live and die by? Like you always have to know the status of this metric. And what's one metric that right now you're committed to learning more about? Like maybe it's not always been your go-to, but you're like, I'm really interested in like getting better at understanding that metric.

Yeah, I think that obviously average sale value and units per customer are always so key to look at.

Yeah.

I may even throw in looking at sales by category and see where those are sitting in terms of what's selling in your store. I think that those are the 3 that we use the most, those 3 metrics. I think one that we're looking into more is kind of like the power of clienteling and getting your first-time customers in a second time. So we're looking at How often you're coming, what does that look like? What does the client, kind of the client, the ideal client pathway look like? And how can we do better at being actionable after that first experience?

I think that's something that a lot of stores have a huge opportunity to learn and double down on is the power of clienteling.

I think we leave that to chance all too often. Oh my God. Yeah. It's so much cheaper to retain a client than it is to gain a new one. It's way cheaper. I think we spent, at least I can speak about my organization, too much time on getting new. And I think that we're— it's the wrong direction. So we're now kind of reverting to how do we maintain.

It's kind of one of those things, like, again, like if you're a business owner, you've got to be in the spreadsheets. But it's one of those things that I think not a lot of business owners talk about. Like it's glamorous to attract new customers. It's not as talked about and as glamorous to talk about how do you acquire more.— or I'm sorry, how to get your current customers to buy more, buy more often.

Check out this statistic. I'm kind of shook. I just read this the other day and now I'm like on this whole clienteling path. So after the first purchase, a client only returns 27% of the time after that. Isn't that crazy? And then after they shop with you twice, There's a 50% chance of them returning. So that's the industry standard. So getting them to be from the first time to the second time, then after 3 times, it jumps to like 70-something percent. So it's just getting them over the hump of the first time is like, pshew. To me, my head almost fell off. That was great.

Oh man, that is a powerful statistic, you guys. If you did not write that down, pause, rewind, write that down and make sure every store employee is trained on that and rewarded and incentivized. On that. I think that's so huge. It's funny, I had another franchise owner on the podcast. This has been a couple years ago now, but she said one thing that they do across all of their stores is they have, you know, trained their store managers and all employees on clienteling, but they do wow awards. So in their point of sale system, they're taking note on times where they have like wowed, surprised, and delighted the customer. Like they note something they do. And then they submit all those to the franchise owner and at their like banquet, like their year-end celebration, they go and they do awards on like the best customer experience, like the best opportunity to wow and get people back in the door. And I think that's something, I mean, I think about it for you, but I think about it for everyone listening. Like we should be rewarding on a fans first wow experience versus just the average order value, you know, or the sale alone.

Correct. Because it's, it's, way more— it's way more valuable to focus on, to be honest.

Yeah, totally, totally. Um, okay, what is one money mindset that you perhaps grew up with that you've had to unlearn as a successful business owner?

Something I had to unlearn? Well, I think that I grew up with not a lot, so For me, starting to, I'm really cheap. Like I am still so cheap, but there are times where that doesn't always work in my favor. Like you can't buy the cheapest checkout desk because you're gonna buy a new one in a year. So kind of not being so cheap, I think is my, with things that you know are gonna be investment pieces. So especially when it comes to fixtures or computers, please don't buy a Dell. Like let's, I'm sorry Dell if you're listening, but let's— Let's buy, let's go like buy, step up, step up, you know, love a Chromebook, but not to run your business on.

No. Oh man. It's so funny. My husband calls this, are you stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime? Like, yes, that's the mindset. I'm like, oh, cause I grew up the same way. So I totally, totally appreciate that.

I think it's good to be cheap in some areas.

Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes you've got to dig a little deeper.

Yeah, this is so good, Lindsay. These are— this is awesome. Thank you for the lightning round. One thing I was going to ask you earlier, and before we wrap up our time together today, I've got to, I've got to ask you about this. Something unique that you're doing in the franchise right now. Obviously you've got apparel, accessories, all the things, but bridal is a new, a new aspect. I didn't get to ask you about that. Tell me about the thought process of adding bridal and kind of the strategy of bringing that into your stores.

Yeah, you know, we're not bringing in wedding dresses, we're bringing in whites. And you know, the whole purpose is not to sell a white dress. So it's so personal to be able to dress a client because they then take that piece of clothing and it touches their body and is literally a part of their life. And that's, that's something we never take lightly. Like, so you think about these clothes people wear to their— when they get engaged, when they, um, when they find out they're pregnant, when they graduate, like our clothes are touching them. That's really cool. I like to look at all the tagged pictures on Instagram of people wearing our clothes, and they're for really special moments. And it just feels so honored to be a part of these special moments. So for us, we were thinking about not as a, like a tactic of let's sell, but as a tactic of we want to be attached to the most special moment in a woman's life, which is a lot of the time a marriage. So for us to be associated with something so special is an honor and a privilege. So that's why we're doing a bridal collection. It's so we can be a part of their day. Um, and it's not— this is not a, a something to ring the register. This is something to build, build upon relationships and to be a part of their life. So I'm glad you asked. A lot of people are like, you're not gonna make any money. I'm like, that's not what we're doing.

Yeah, but it goes right back with the strategy, right? Like the repeat customer strategy and clienteling and your mission of being stylist, right? I love how you explain that. I think that's really well done. So kudos to you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Gosh. Well, Lindsay, again, this has been such a pleasure. I just have one last question, and it's always kind of the big question on the podcast. You know, we talk a lot about business and strategy and all the things we're selling and how we sell more of them, right? But at the end of the day, business isn't about sales. It's about how you leave people and how you leave the world around you. So I'm curious, like 30 years from now, you're sitting on the front porch somewhere, you know, hopefully retired, enjoying family and friends, and you're reflecting back on this life that you lived and the businesses you created. And as you're telling that story, what's the thing you really want people to remember most about you and how you lived this journey?

You know, I think that I don't necessarily want them— it's not about me. And it's not about— I don't want them to remember me, but I want them to remember how good they felt. So it's really not about me, it's about them. So, you know, I'll look and I'll, you know, I look at— sometimes I'll go to an event or a wedding or a shower and I look and I see all the people that are wearing PAVLOS. I'm like, wow, that's really special, you know? Or I'll go into a store and I'll see a great styling experience happening and I'll see how great they feel in the mirror. And that's really special. Clothes can transform people's lives. So I think that I'll look back upon, you know, each, each piece of clothing we sell is a story into how it made someone feel. So I think that I'll look back upon that, not necessarily, you know, anything to do with me.

Yeah, I love that. I— that's really well stated. So good.

Yeah.

Lindsay, thank you. Congratulations on the business that you've built, the community you've built, the service you have for people. And thanks so much for being on the podcast today. This was really great.

Thank you, Ashley. I had a great time. Thanks. I hope you have a great day.

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