#817: Purpose First. Profits Follow: The Evolution of John Mark Enterprises

Welcome to the Boutique Chat Podcast, where we're gonna help you build a profitable, sustainable business without you having to sacrifice your profitability, your family, or your sanity. Each week we're gonna dive into real conversations with retailers who have been exactly where you are and industry experts so you can learn and know exactly what to do next, all in community over competition. Whether you're just getting started or you're growing past an 8-figure business, you're in the right spot. So let's get into it. Welcome to this week's episode. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week I've got one of your favorites on the show. I'm so excited. John Mark, thanks so much for being here.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on the show.

Oh, I'm so excited to share your story. And I know so many retailers who are listening, uh, many of them had a chance to see you at Dallas Market and to hear and to watch your demonstrations, hear a little bit of your story. Um, But it's pretty incredible. I stood there several days getting to watch, our team did as well, and just the authenticity of your story and how relatable it is, I'm so excited to get to bring it to everybody today. So before we get into the tactical, 'cause we're gonna get there too, that's what this is about, but I've gotta bring everyone along like how this phenomenon started. So take me back to your upbringing and where all this creativity started.

Yeah, okay. So my grandmother had a lot to do with kind of inspiration behind the business. She wasn't in the business by any means, but she just knew how to take something ordinary, what I like to call ordinary, and make it extraordinary. And so she lived down, her and Pawpaw lived down in Mississippi, Sardis, Mississippi, which is like 45 minutes to an hour away from Memphis. So it was always fun to get down there on the weekends. But kind of through things, kind of where the business started was in high school. I started making door arrangements for teachers and my parents and their friends and whoever would buy from me.

Yeah.

And so like my parents let me use the playroom for like a workspace. And then we actually used the guest bedroom for my first like kind of storefront, if you will say. And so like people could come over to the house and look and whatnot. And then when my parents had parties, I put tags on wreaths and put them throughout the home. And so—

That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how the spark started.

Yeah.

Like realizing that one, I love creating and doing what I wanted, but also kind of like understanding that, you could make a living by working for yourself, you know, and like that whole kind of idea. But it started out just with making wreaths and then going to buy tennis shoes with it or like whatever I wanted, you know.

Was someone in your business or was someone in your family like, did they have a small business or? Because a lot of times there's creativity and creative people, but there's not always the connection of, okay, now how do I make money from this? But obviously you caught that spark fast. Did somebody teach you that?

Yeah, I mean, I think it had a lot to do with my upbringing and stuff. There wasn't any like specific thing. My mom's a pharmacist, and then my dad sells commercial insurance, but he has, he had a business, he still has it, but sort of retiring now, and then like my granddad from my dad's side, so the people, the ones that talk about down Mississippi on my mom's side, but like he was, he's actually He's still living, but he was a preacher, but he was bi-vocational, so he always had a job too, so he didn't rely on the church for it. He just wanted to preach, that was it. He didn't rely on the money from the church. So anyways, he had an insurance company and worked for himself, and so I think kind of like that whole idea, you know, it's already normal in my mind, you know, like you like didn't have to necessarily go find a job, but also I wasn't thinking long term when I started making door arrangements. I just thought, you know, this is fun, it's exciting, I don't have to go into like a real job. Also, I wasn't old enough to even have a job, but I wanted to buy shoes or buy the latest Nikes at that time. Shox were in, you know, that was like— oh my gosh, yeah, Shox. But, and, uh, so that's kind of how it's started like very briefly. And so after that, like my grandmother's friends were buying from me. And so I kind of was like, well, maybe they just think that, like almost like a pity buy, you know, like, oh, that's my friend's son, so I'll buy it from him or whatever. So I decided to go to a craft fair, sign up for one, one, and I didn't even know what those were. I didn't even know they were a thing. I knew what tractor pools were down in Mississippi because I used to sell t-shirts there back in the day. But anyway, I had a few little things in high school that I would do, but the wreaths are obviously what stuck around. But anyways, sign up for the Cordova Community Craft Fair, which is right here in Cordova, in Memphis. I don't think they do it anymore. I think after COVID, a lot of those little shows kind of disappeared. But it was good. So sign up for that and made a bunch of wreaths and got ready for it. It was a 2-day show. Parents had to drive me over there to set up like on that Friday afternoon. And then it started Saturday morning and then it ended Sunday afternoon. But that Saturday we had a sellout. And so that was—

Oh my gosh.

And so I stayed up all Saturday night and these were strangers, you know, I didn't know the people who were buying from me. So it was super exciting and honoring. And so like ever since that, kind of that feeling and spark from that moment, even though I was just a kid who didn't even have a plan going forward, you know, I was like, I just want a car, I just want, you know, the latest shoes. That spark has still stayed alive to this day in me. It's just so exciting and invigorating when someone is like, did you have no idea who they are? But they want like something that you've created or that you've made or, and they like, it's special to them and it's super special to me. And so that kind of is like what started it. And then I just signed up for more and more craft fairs And like, then I got into other shows. Like, there's a show here called Mistletoe and stuff like that. They're a little bit less crafty, so they have like maybe more curated booths, you know, through it. So they don't all have just only crafts they have. But anyway, so I got into those type shows. And then from there I started— I was like, well, this is cool to have a booth. But it did. I was like, what if I had a booth year round? So then I, um, went into a few like antique stores and like— there, Painted Tree wasn't around back then, but stores like Painted Tree, everyone knows about them, you know, things like that. Um, and so that was cool because then I didn't have to like man it 24/7, but obviously things could sell. And, um, so that's kind of— stuff started rolling. Then I kind of went Got my foot wet in retail per se with my booths and then other shop owners started reaching out to me and they were, they start out with, we want these wreaths in our stores, can you make them for us and how does that work? And so a lot of stores I either did commission-based and we came up with a split. And then some stores would just buy like 10 at a time from me, that was my, wholesale cap or price. You had to buy at least 2 and then you got a discount. And so that was cool. So I was in all these stores all over Memphis in every little section of Memphis. I had a few in Arlington and East Memphis and Midtown and then even down in Olive Branch, which is like North Mississippi and Germantown and Carville. So I did not realize what was happening, but I was testing the market without even realizing it. And I was just doing this through high school and college. And then, so it was fun, you know, got to be creative. And then other store shop owners, all these ladies, they would hire me to start doing like their displays. And I didn't know that I liked to do that, but, you know, I'd start hanging around the shops because if I had a booth in there, if I had Reese, you know, I'd come in and I would be like, do you want me to place these for you or do you want to just place it? Then so I would place the wreaths and then I might move a few things without necessarily realizing I was moving things. And yeah, so that kind of how that just kind of started. So then I kind of learned the background of home and gift, you know, like I didn't know anything about it, but I knew I loved it. And so that was exciting to just kind kind of do without even— there's no pressure there, you know. It's just like, okay, I'm just— it just naturally progressed. Um, and so one of the shop owners, uh, this is kind of like— this story is much longer, but basically one of the shop owners asked if I want to go to market one day with her. And, um, I was like, maybe, sure, you know, I don't know, but let me ask.

What's market?

Yeah, I didn't know what market was.— but she was explaining it to me and like where she goes to buy all this stuff that I'm displaying with, you know, and how it comes in. I didn't know how she ordered it. I thought maybe you just ordered from a catalog or online, like I didn't know. Yeah. So anyway, so she said, "Do you want to go to the market?" I'm like, "Sure, maybe. I got to ask my parents." Because I was still, I mean, you know, living at home. I wasn't old enough to probably make that decision on my own yet. And you know, they were like, yeah, I think it's fine to do that, you know, like she's trustworthy, you know, I mean they knew her just from me being around that store a lot and so I went and got my first taste of how it worked and helped her buy stuff for her store, which is insane to me because I mean, I didn't know, you know, I just knew I display and sell it. And I don't know even what it is, but you want to go and help pick out colors and things. And it was really for Christmas decor for that year. And I had a blast because it wasn't my money and I could just— I was like, I think this and this would work together real good. But even though it wasn't my money, I still was learning and I understood we have to turn a profit. Yeah, in order for me to keep a job for sure, you know, like if I like what I'm doing. So, so that's kind of how it started. And then I understood real quick, like, that you had to have a tax ID and a resale license and all that. And so, so it's kind of like behind the scenes of the business, how I got started and like how I was just, I just jumped in headfirst, uh, not knowing it, but started just selling wreaths at craft fairs basically. And, and then people started seeing and seeing what I could do, and, um, and they trusted me, you know. It's crazy, uh, so a lot of these shop owners, you know, really took a chance on me, per se, you know, and gave me space in their stores. And, um, so I'm forever grateful for all of them, but So it was kind of cool. And where the top producing store was for me, it was in Germantown. It was called Diane's Gift Emporium. She was always my biggest check every month. I knew that when I could afford, and like after I went through the process of going to school and stuff, and then really was like, okay, I can do, I got to do this for a living because I don't want to, there's nothing else that makes sense for me to do. Yeah, I knew that when I could afford, I would have to move out to Germantown. That, that was the retail location that I needed to be at. But I didn't start there. My first actual brick and mortar wasn't there, was in Bartlett. But, but when I could get there, I did. And but that was cool because, you know, I kind of knew what each demographic of the city was and where our items, my items sold the most. And so it's kind of crazy because we're just like 3 doors down from Diane's Gift and Forum where it was in its beginning. And then she retired and closed and she wanted to sell her building. And I was, you know, young and didn't have any money, not any money like that to buy a building. So it wasn't the right time. But it's crazy because, yeah, we opened up a few doors down from my dream location. 3, let's see, no, 2019 is when we opened the Germantown location.

That's like you manifested that. You set that plan in motion long ago. Isn't that funny? In hindsight, you had all the data you needed to open this business because you were hungry. You just hustled and you tested and you filled a need where you saw it. At the same time, I just think this is so cool about people's gifts. Like, you had this gift, and I think a lot of people have a gift, but we almost take it for granted. Like, you don't know what you have is so special and so unique because the world, I think, kind of beats that out of you. Um, but you just leaned into it and you were open to wherever that gift was going to take you, and you were open to the risk. And again, I just think so many people, like, we're risk-averse. We're taught to play it safe, get a degree, get a good job, like, don't go out on a limb. Yeah, you did. And it paid off.

Well, yeah. And I think the thing about me is, and I mean, there's hard days in business. It's like, don't get me wrong, I've gone through lots of struggle. You know, it's easy to tell the fun side of things. But I think one of the things is, is that I don't really think too much into something, you know, just like I was doing all that for their shops and I was running like 7, not running, but I was doing 7 different locations at once, uh, going through high school and college. But it never like overwhelmed me, you know. I was just like, this is great, this is good, you know. But I never really thought too much ahead, you know, like didn't overthink it. And I think that's, uh, I still try to do that today because it's really easy to get in your head. And especially as I've gotten older, I've realized that, you know, maybe that thing like young and dumb is really probably a little bit true because I definitely, you know, I had like the courage to do whatever, you know, I was insane, um, and, and, you know, I didn't think anything of it. So I think that that's a big kind of thing that sometimes we tend to overthink it too much and we just gotta roll with it and just let it grow on its own and see what happens. Yeah, it usually works out. It's just the recipe is hard work, hustle, and dedication, and if you just continue, you know, to do that every day. It's like, it's a good, it's a golden recipe. I know some days seem like it's not worth it at all, and I've had those days, but wake up tomorrow and do it, give it your all. And there's always, it always gets better if you stick with it, you know.

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That's S-W-Y-M. M. Yeah, I think it's, it's your intuition. Like, it's going back to your why. Like, what is your passion, your purpose? Why are you here? And then just being ruthless with like your intuition and continuing to show up day after day when it's hard. Because whoever said business is easy, like, there's—

it's not.

It's super hard. But that's kind of the fun. Like, it becomes a game after a while that you play, and you balance playing the game with as much data as you can get. But really, like, you have to rely on your intuition more than data sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. And it's not always good. You know, your gut feeling, you know, it's usually right, but sometimes you make a wrong decision, but you just pick yourself back up and—

Yeah.

And keep going.

I've got to— So this is how the brick and mortar started. Now I've got to ask about the ribbon. Where did the ribbon come into the story? Where did that all originate?

Okay, so my designs have always been heavy ribbon since the beginning, so those wreaths that I would start out making, they were like those big mesh wreaths, which people still make them today, but they were like really popular. Like, this is back like 2009, you know, timeframe 2008. The mesh was not in the big box stores. You had to buy it from like somebody who sold like small boutiques or like wherever, you know, it wasn't like at Michaels and Walmart and stuff like it is now.

Yeah.

So it was a really unique product, you know, and I saw that people latched on to it. And so me and my aunt went to the Canton flea market in Mississippi. Yeah, go there, it's twice a year. And so I would always just go with her because I enjoyed, you know, seeing and seeing what people sell. I've always been attracted to selling, you know, like whatever that is. It could be anything, but I'm interested in like the exchange and like how that works. And so, but this tent was selling just those big old rolls of that mashed. And I was like, what is this stuff? But they didn't have it like displayed or anything. It literally was just in boxes under a tent and ladies were like grabbing it like crazy. And so of course I had to go grab some too. And I stood in line for like 30 minutes to pay for it, you know? And I'm like, just a kid. And all these ladies are probably like, what is this guy? What's he going to do with it? And I didn't know what I was going to do with it either. This was like kind of how it sparked. Wreath making, you know. And so, but I knew that it was a good product because why else would people be lined up? I mean, no other booth or tent at the flea market, at Canton Flea Market, had a line. So it's like, this is cool. Besides Chicken on a Stick, like that, that trailer always has a line.

Of course.

Yeah, yeah. So, but so ribbons heavy. And then I started making those wreaths. I always use ribbon, and I was like, you know, would just start buying ribbon, realized who like the big players were in the market, you know, and respect them like very much so even to this day. But there was always like that kind of like thought in my mind like, oh well, like this is cool, but it could be wired or it could be heavier or like With Gran, like at her house, there was always like, she loved, and she wasn't like fancy by any means. When I say this, I feel like sometimes it comes across as like fancy, but like she had like the drapes and then the wallpaper and then the piping on the drapes and then the pillows that, you know, but we may find like some old fabric at a, at like a garage sale or something and then turn it into curtains, you know. It wasn't like we were like this high-end like, yeah. Grandmother-grandson duo going out. No, we found like junk and then made it cool.

Yeah.

And so anyways, so I'm like, the ribbon could be so cool if it had like an extra up to it, you know, just the next step. But, and so I would talk to some of the ribbon makers and say like, is there any, you know, like way, you know, you could do this, you could do that. And they're like, yeah, maybe, maybe. And then they wanted you to do like a factory run, which I understand now. And of course I was like, I don't need that much by any means. And so I went on a mission trip to India and so that's kind of how, like, again, so all that other stuff was going on in the background. I'd always kind of been like, it'd be cool to get my own, like, designs or just help. I didn't even want my own designs, just maybe help make a more prominent ribbon.

Did you have— let me pause. Did you have the storefront by this time or is this still pre-storefront when you're doing craft shows?

Yeah, no, this is pre— so the India trip, it was right on the edge of— the first India trip was right on the edge of me getting a storefront, but I had like my booths and things in the gift shops and was working with them. So I went to India on a mission trip, didn't again, didn't think anything of it, just going as with the church, you know, to do. And like, this is something that I did back in the day. I've been to like Peru and the Amazon River Basin and like all kinds of like cool places that you probably just wouldn't typically go for like vacation by any means. And so we went to India and it was like the same, same kind of experience, like a spark ignited there. I'm like, there's something here we can do. And I knew that some of that finer ribbon was made in India because it says made in India. And so, um, we just kind of started asking around. Um, it started— there was like multiple things that kind of took place on that trip, but, um, we, uh, at first we started making pillows in India, uh, okay, and, uh, just to kind of get into it. Um, but it was kind of crazy what we were doing because we would source the fabric here and then send it back to India. And I'm like, probably most of this fabric— you don't know what you don't know. And again, I'm a little bit insane, so I just do it until it— and, you know, like, at least something's happening.

Yeah.

Um, so they would make these pillows and they were really beautiful and like the perfect thing. Um, but it was people, it was not a factory, it was just to help get, uh, really was help to get ladies off the street. Um, we were in a really, really poor part. Um, and— like, not to say too much, but basically they used other forms to get money, so this was a way that they could do that. So it was cool, it started out like that. They were blowing and going through the fabric and the pillows were coming over and— well, they were just inserts. I mean, the pillows were, and then I would put the inserts in and we'd just or on Etsy under a different name. And so it was good, but then I was like, well, maybe they can make a ribbon, which they can't. They couldn't. Long story short, they couldn't. Pillows are their strong suit, and you need so much more machinery and factory-type stuff to make. But it sparked that in me, and I was like, well, someone in India can make a ribbon. And so we went through a few factories and boots on the ground kind of thing. And so it was a lot of back and forth and just like adventures and just going to different cities in India. I didn't have like a set— there wasn't like, I'm going to this address right here, you know, it's more like asking around. And everyone over there wants to help, like they're like, yeah, we can do that, yes, yes, yes. And sure they could, but it wasn't always like the quality that I needed or whatever. So it took a while to find the right place to where we make it. So found that and did the minimum run and brought in a container to my warehouse.

And did you realize it was going to be a whole container or were you like, oh, this is a lot of ribbon?

Yeah, I mean, it was a ton of ribbon to me, but it was only a 20-foot container. But still, that's container, which they wanted, you know, they had minimums. And, uh, so we did it. And of course I got to create it and design, um, but the very first container I brought in, that 20-footer, some of it was kind of created, but it's more like they had a set, um, swatch book or whatever, kind of things that they had made. And you could— they were like, you can tweak it a little bit if you want to, whatever. So I may have just done like something very like, minuscule to it, or I probably just ran with some of the things that they had. So the first round of ribbon, it was awesome ribbon. The first official round. We had lots of rounds with other factories that weren't. But so 20-footer came in. That's really half of an 18-wheeler, if you don't know what that is for those of y'all. But I thought we would never sell this ribbon. I'm like, this is a ton. It's more than I'd ever ordered. Yeah. 'Cause all of a sudden you're getting in like quantities of like 300 or 500, you know, of one type of ribbon. It's like, oh, what did I do?

Yeah. And were you selling ribbon independent? Like, do you, is it a spool? Is that what you say?

Yeah.

Do you sell like spools independently or were you just using it for your own products before you ordered in all this much?

Well, both, both. Okay. And then whatever was left, I'd put it on those, on the floor and sell it or especially at Christmas time.

Sure.

You know, people would buy it. So, but we had like more than I'd ever bought at one time. And so we started selling it, you know, it's like, so we put it in the store just as is. And we did like this ribbon soiree thing that I came up with. And so this was like 3 and a half years ago, I guess now. And when that first container came in. And so of course I made up bows and things, but it all sold very quickly, way quicker than I realized. And so what I didn't realize was because I didn't really put— not that I didn't put much effort into it, but I didn't really put much design thought behind that first round of ribbon, to be honest. I just wanted it and I knew it was going to be good quality because we had gotten in samples and everything. But what sold it was we were the only ones who had that ribbon, you know, like that particular ribbon. It may be similar to someone, like you could find it somewhere else, but like the backing was different than the other or whatever. So I think that's what helped sell it because we were just unique. It's not that it was different per se, it was just a little bit unique, you know, just a little bit.

But it was also your brand. Like, I have to pause. You have to take credit. 'Cause it was your brand. Like I always say, people don't buy products, right? People don't buy from businesses, people buy from people. And so it could have been any ribbon, but it was John Mark ribbon and that carries a ton of value because of the trust you built with people leading up into that point, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I say the same thing. Although we sell products and, you know, pretty things, I always like when I do, team meetings and things, I always kind of remind people that we're not like Walmart or Target. So that's very transactional. Here in the store, we get to know people. We're relationship-based. So people are coming in, they're buying the feeling more than the product is what I think. And that's hopefully what we sell. And hopefully ultimately I sell what Gran's house feels like in my store. Hopefully it feels like how I felt down there. In Sardis, Mississippi. So I always kind of reiterate that whenever we talk and do our team meetings and especially in retail and before, like our big open houses and things like that.

But yeah, it's your culture.

Yeah, for sure. So but anyways, we sold that ribbon and so that made me super excited. So we immediately started designing new ribbons and then brought in a 40-foot container, filled it and then brought it. So double the size and then I turned my wedding office meeting room into what we call the Ribbon Library. But I didn't even have a name for it. I just put floor-to-ceiling shelves in it, built-in shelves, and it did look like bookcases, but it wasn't— that was not the intention. And then some of the customers started calling it the Ribbon Library, and it stuck.

Oh, I like that.

And so now it's kind of like a thing. Like, people come and visit it. Expanded the ribbon library into the outside because we have won so many ribbons, but so much ribbon sales right now, and it's like a big thing for us. Um, so that's kind of how it got started. And, uh, so now I go to India twice a year. Yeah. And design. And, um, who knows, I'll probably have to start going even more with this wholesale line kicking off, um, because there's way more, uh, feedback and positivity and like interest than I ever thought it would be. Um, yeah, from bringing it to markets.

But one of the biggest lessons I hear from people are questions— I don't even know if it's a question— one of the biggest stumbling blocks, I'll say, that I see people run into that are moving from like, we have a viral product or a viral brand and now we're gonna go bring in inventory. Like, you had to fast-track your inventory management skills. Yeah, like that. Like, you— I mean, obviously you had to move out, create space, you were bringing in all these spools, they were selling faster than you anticipated. Um, you know, what systems and processes did you have to build at that time, or what technology did you have to bring in so you felt like you could keep your arms around this thing that was growing so fast?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, one, I always tell people it's not just me. Like, I have a great team behind me who helps me manage all this. But, um, we— so we had like a like a generic, um, uh, I don't know, like POS system.

Yeah.

And it didn't do anything like what ours does today. So I, I, we use Shopify and it is amazing. But so we immediately started shopping for something and I landed on Shopify. I was like, this looks user-friendly, we can scan it, it takes barcodes, like all the things that I needed, and it would let us have the ability to have our online site, you know, because before all that, before all this started kind of happening, I was just brick and mortar only. I didn't have online at all. And I'm still growing that to, to this day. But so that's kind of— that was the big like thing to get Shopify in and working. And then we immediately started trying to build a warehouse. Because what my current warehouse was at the time was, it was like a strip shopping center. And so, and I just kept taking over a bay after bay after bay. And it's like 30 minutes from the store, but I wanted, I always knew, this is something I learned from working in like other floors in gift shops. I knew that back rooms, not much work got done back there, one. There wasn't much room for designing, but too also, if the designer like me or the owner of the company was there at the store, no work really got done. You couldn't do anything. So that's why I always knew that I needed two locations, one for the warehouse where I could create, make a mess, the team could be there, and then we have a pretty side, the storefront, and all the retail can happen there. It's like all the magic happens behind the scenes. Yeah. So we immediately started looking for something to help us fit better because we didn't even have a loading dock or anything at that point. And so now we do. But I had to grow into all of that, you know, and see what makes sense.

If you could go back, like, what, what would you have told yourself to prepare for that? Like, oh, I definitely needed these systems and processes to be ready for what was going to come next.

Yeah. Yeah, and even like now, like our website could use a lot of help and stuff, you know, but I probably would have jumped in with a proper system first, like a, yeah, like an inventory system and not one that like it, not that our old one was bad, but it just was not for what we were doing.

Yeah, Shopify is pretty awesome.

Yeah, change that like a long time ago because I didn't know it. I didn't know it. I say that a lot, but Shopify has made life so much easier and streamlined and we just know what we have in inventory and it's not like we're searching in the back room counting for something. It's like, nope, we have it here or it's not here, you know? So yeah, anyways, but that I probably would have switched that immediately a long time ago. Probably should have. But I like how we grew, you know, like the starting small and just taking over one bay at a time in that old strip shopping center.

Yeah.

I mean, it's cool, you know, and even though we didn't have a loading dock, we made it work and we had like 5 bays at the end of it all before we moved into our new warehouse. But, you know, saved me money and we just did what we could until I could afford to build a warehouse.

Um, yeah, plan sustainable growth one piece at a time. I think a lot of people see the end result and, you know, there's all these assumptions that this happened overnight or it exploded or it went perfect or whatever, but it's all those little pieces. It's all the lessons you learn by things not working that force you to make a decision to create something that does work.

Yeah, yeah. And it's a lot of sacrifices, uh, especially on business owners, and you have to like just roll with that and do that. Even like, you know, I lived at home until I was 28 because I just kept pumping all the revenue and income back into the business, which, you know, I started when I was young, so it was easy for me to still live at home. But yeah, but just like that kind of stuff, you know, is it sacrifice? Do I want to live at home that long? Probably not, you know, but I also wanted to keep growing and catapult the business. So I think there's like, you, we have to, people do, they sometimes they see the end or like whatever and it's like, yeah, but I always like when I talk to people and stuff and just say what I did, but I love to just put money back into it. It's real hard or it's more stressful I feel like if you take out like a huge loan to get to this end result that you're not even sure might— I mean, it's gonna work out if you have like the drive and all, but something could happen between then and that end result. So why not just go into it first and get your feet wet and then do like just double each month or whatever you can do?

Um, yeah, the idea that you can like plan it all out on paper and it's gonna go that exact way, like rarely does that ever happen.

No.

I think what makes you so special is just your ability to iterate, like, oh, I tried this, it worked or it didn't, I'm gonna pivot and go this direction. And you've had your hand in so many pots, so to speak. Do you think that there's like a belief that you had or that most founders have along the way that actually holds people back at the beginning that you have to like replace with a different belief once you get like growth?

I don't know. I don't know what that—

Maybe not you, but do you think like most people when they're starting a business like believe that it's gonna, go one way or they have a belief about what it means to be a business owner that like once you're in it, you're like, oh wait, that's not true at all.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I think that happens a lot for sure. And I hear, I hear that too. But I think people sometimes, and even if they don't think it's, they know it's going to be hard maybe to start a business or get into a business or obtain an old business and start it. But I think they really you don't know until you're just hands-on and in there and you realize, oh wow, like, you know, like whatever, the employee, from anything from the employees to the inventory to, you know, purchasing stuff and then customers. Like, it's so many moving parts and so many different things, uh, between, uh, good and bad things, you know, or, uh, that you just have to juggle this, you know, roll with it and and put out fires. You know, some days I feel I saw, I do, I feel like it's just putting out fires and then you're like, I didn't get to do it. I needed to get done.

And so that is life of a business owner right there. It's a lot of fires. Speaking of, you were talking about juggling and wearing a lot of hats. Something about your story that I think is interesting is so all the things we talked about were going crazy, but then the wedding business.

Yeah.

Like the floral and the wedding business. And I heard you talk about the number of hours that you were putting into that business. First of all, I would love for you to talk about, you know, how that business grew. But then as it grew, you had to make a decision between what do I focus on? Like as a CEO, you, I think everyone starts as a hustling entrepreneur, but then you have to move to be a strategic CEO. How'd you make the decision of, okay, I need to actually pick and choose where I'm gonna spend my time and energy that's gonna be the most impactful for the whole business?

Yeah.

How'd you make that decision as that start started to grow?

Yeah, so one thing made it really easy to make that decision. COVID hit, and so weddings were not going on as much or even as planned. So in 2019, just give you a little background, we did 158 events. Now they weren't like as crazy. I mean, we had big ones then, like huge ones like we've done now. So, but it was still a lot of moving parts and like lots of brides and lots of mamas to talk to and all the things. And so COVID hit and it was, it kind of, 'cause at first end all be all for me was weddings, you know, like the retail was great and all. I didn't really, I enjoyed it and whatnot, but weddings were like, this is where it's at for me in my mind. That's what I thought.

Yeah.

And of course that all went away and 2020. And then, so then I pivoted and we started this delivery service kind of thing and started posting videos of like what we had in store that week or whatever. And then they could order it if you're local, you could order it and then we would deliver it to you. So we were running vans during COVID like crazy and delivering to people's doors. All around the Shelby County area. And, um, I mean, it was crazy because we had to buy— we had to buy— we had 2 vans already, and then we had to buy a 3rd van during COVID which was a nightmare to buy because you can't find one anywhere because you were bidding against like Amazon and UPS, who everyone was delivering, you know, because no one's leaving their house. But anyway, so we got us a 3rd van, and, um, and that's kind of where things of course pivoted, didn't, it wasn't an expected thing, you know, no one knew that COVID was going to shut down the world, and so started posting these things online, not even thinking worldwide or the internet or whatever, you know, nationwide would see it, it was more just like for a local 901 area and that's where the idea of these, like that's when I started doing more videos, I'm like, hey, I'm at home, here's what I'm doing today, or hey, here's what we have in the store, you know, comment if you want it and we'll send you an invoice and deliver it to you, whatever. And so people started kind of, I think, knowing who I was during that time and became like a, I don't know what it is, like some kind of like internet relationship type thing.

Totally.

Like connection. Yeah. So that's— I saw the potential just within our local area of what that could be. And so that's kind of how a lot of things were all moving at one time. But I was like, we need to figure out how to sell online and ship. But in our current location, like, there was no room to ship. Like, what does that even mean? You know, you got to have all these boxes and stuff. So So it took a long time to get to even just shipping what we ship now. But I kind of saw it was like an eye-opener during that time. It showed me what the potential could be. And then it's a business decision. So we raised our minimums on our weddings and I wasn't— I stopped saying yes to just every single event and everything. And so that was kind of like a hard decision. To do. And we, you know, you kind of like, we got a little bit of pushback from that. And some people were like, you know, you hear comments like he's too big for his britches and like all that. But it's from another business owners when you hear that. And so it's from people who are not in it. They don't realize what's going on. They don't realize you have to make a lot of time. And maybe they realize like, like everyone has goals in life. So like if this is to get you to your next goal, like Sometimes, yes, sure. But anyways, I've been through some— like, when you have to make hard decisions, you're never going to appease everyone. And that's something you have to get over.

You have to be okay with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And which is tough. Even today, like, I hate having to, like, hurt anyone's feelings or anything, you know? But it's just one of those things that it is crucial for growth, you know, to make those type of decisions. But So anyways, so that's kind of how that went. I still love weddings. They're definitely like a love language of mine. Like, I just enjoy them so much. But in order for me to bring my whole team out and design, and we have like 5 designers on the part of JME now that help from design of the store all the way to the ribbon to fresh flowers and wreaths. But it just costs a lot of money to have a team on site and stuff. So we just kind of did the numbers and I have a great bookkeeper and she is like, well, here's kind of like the break-even point. So you got to be somewhere here to here. So, you know, you, you just need to set a minimum. And so we did that, you know, and so yeah, that's, that's kind of how that decision came about.

Yeah. But how do you— so where you're at today, thinking about like fast forward to like today and the decisions that are on your plate today. Um, what I love— I mean, your business is so multifaceted. You've got all these different opportunities. You mentioned like you want to grow more online. How are you today being like a strategic CEO and making the decision of what you focus on? And then how have you learned kind of as you make that decision, like it's a leadership decision, it's a leadership lesson, how have you learned what's for me and then what do I need to delegate to my team? And how have you surrounded yourself with the right people to do that?

Yeah, yeah, it definitely— so I'm gonna say something that's probably not in the textbook, but I work a lot off of feelings. So like, first kind of first impressions are everything to me. Like, if my gut says no, then I'm probably gonna say no, even though I don't want to sometimes. But so that's kind of how I've built this team. It's not even been like an advertised thing, you know, it's like everyone is somehow connected or like someone's known someone and they're like, they would like to come and talk or whatever. I mean, they're like one of my designers who's on the team right now, she tried to get a job with us, she moved from California and she, I mean, we joke about all the time now because we're all like family, but she tried to get a job with us for like 2 years straight and she went—

That's awesome.

When she moved from California, she came from a huge, beautiful business in California that she worked at. And I mean, she knows more about flowers than I know about flowers, you know? Like, yeah, we were just like, no, you know, like it was an email and like, I get lots of emails and I'm just like, whatever. So I'm really like, like one of those things, like it's going to happen when it happens. So it's a little bit of kind of like I call it. I mean, it's just faith, really.

But I think those are God winks. I say the same thing about our team. People are like, how did you grow this amazing team? And I'm like, literally God. This person was connected to that person. Like everything happens for a reason. I think if you choose to look for it and it sounds like it's the same with your team.

Well, and I've just found out that going through this, anything that I try to force usually does not work out. You want it to and or doesn't have a good outcome usually. And so, you know, if the pressure isn't there and it feels right, I'd say go for it. But so I also have a bookkeeper and I have a CPA and I have, um, an attorney. Uh, so like growing a nice little team is— I know at the beginning I didn't have any of that. Um, and I just rolled with it. But once you can start like getting some of those key people on and maybe they're not even full-time, you know, like CPAs, like mine's not full-time by any means, but it's great to be like, okay, here's what we did. Here's this, like, I'm not really good with numbers. I just know that at the end of the day, the business should have more than it started with. But, you know, so they really help, you know, like they can analyze stuff and, and I mean, you have to ask them. So like, you know, I'll be like, well, I would like to have like 3 outcomes. Here's a risk, here's a reward of each outcome. If we do like X, Y, Z, and then I let their— because they're professionals at it, you know, like I wouldn't ask them to make a flower arrangement, but I can handle that, you know?

Right. So do what you do best and hire the rest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, hiring is the same thing with like how we grew into our big warehouse or grew into the storefront that I wanted in the more expensive part of town. It's just little by little, you know, like you can't start out— well, you could if you have like a lot of capital, but I didn't start out with just like a full team of like there's 38 of us on payroll now.

Wow.

And like, you know, I didn't start like that by any means. I never would have thought that it would be this big either. But who knows what the potential is too, you know, I'm not really overthinking it too much yet. But I just think you just have to find those key people and then treat the people who you know are good, you know, like keep them and make them, you know, like make them part of your own family and like, you know, because there's That's how you grow a business. You can't— this type of business, you know, it's not like a computer type job or anything. I mean, you have to have like hands and feet and, you know, people doing stuff and the face of your business. And when people come into your store, it's like, you know, you want them to represent you ultimately. So, yeah, they don't do that. You know, it's not, it's not going to work out.

But yeah, exactly. Well, John Mark, I have a couple of quick lightning round questions for you. Are you okay with that?

Yeah, anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. This has been so good, you guys. Thanks for listening. Those of you who are tuning in, you'll have to let me know where you're tuning in from today. But we could keep going. I could keep asking you questions all day long, but I won't for the sake of time, 'cause I know you're so busy. But couple quick lightning round questions. First, if I give you 2 hours back in your day to focus on income-generating activity, what do you focus on first?

Um, income generating. I would probably— for me, it would be like product development in some form. Um, and whether I'm working with the actual company like from the Market Center or we're product developing it ourselves overseas and then bringing it in, um, I think that is what I've realized is, um, the for the outcome of time.

Yeah.

That you put into something that is probably the best return on investment. Yeah. Is having a product or something that is produced. So like if you don't do that yet and you go to market, you know, like analyzing what's going to sell good for you, like what's so good in the past and then maybe doubling that order or something and then reinventing how to use it. Maybe don't show it the same way that you used it before or whatever in your store. That's probably for me, that would be perfect.

What, what do you think in your business? You said 38 people. What do you think in your business as a whole is the unsexiest process that has the most impact?

I would say tagging, tagging merchandise. And I am so thankful for everyone because I used to tag everything, you know, back in the day. But tagging is very unsexy, I guess you could say, but it's very tedious. And but we also, we rebrand almost everything that comes in for ourselves. So we put like a John Mark Enterprise tag on everything. Whether we made it or not and then we take off the like—

We label it.

Yeah, we take off like the made in China tag or whatever just because I want people to experience when they come in the store. I don't want them to automatically see that on it when everyone knows that everything's made overseas. You know, like it's impossible to produce it in America because everything's so expensive here, one, but also we would still have to get the raw materials here and where, who's making that? So until that whole structure changes, 'cause, but where I live, sometimes people are like, "Oh, made in China. Can you not find this in America?" And you're like, "Nope, not really." But so we just go on ahead and take that off so that that's not even a negative thing in our store. And so it's very important to me to do that, but it is so tedious and so—

It is tedious.

Not fun, I'm sure. But some people love it and they tag for me every day and I love them for that.

Perfect.

And I'm very thankful for them.

All right. What's one money mindset that you've had to unlearn on your business journey?

Okay, so money mindset. So, well, I don't know. This is a tough one. There's— I don't know. Sometimes I think I've had to kind of learn this. So I've done everything by, like, cash, you know. I just reinvest it into the business and, you know, there's no debt there. There wasn't any debt, you know. Like, when we need a van, we're gonna start a van fund, and until that van fund's full, we're not buying a van. So, but in order to grow, I have kind of stepped back on that a little bit. Like, maybe like a line of credit is okay. You just I think good— there is such thing as good debt, which I hate to even say that because I'm always like, oh, I hate debt. Like, I don't want to think about it. It just feels like something's over my head always. But there are smart ways to do debt and smart ways to maybe get like a line of credit. And that's where like these professionals in the financial world really come in to, to help, you know, and make sure you're not like getting suckered into something that's a bad deal for you. And so it's kind of cool because, you know, sometimes if you work with the right bank or who, whatever it is, could be an angel investor or whatever, usually they want to be part of your journey in some way. And so it's a good deal for both ends of it. But that's something I've had to like kind of rethink because I have like a little real estate business on the side too. I have a few properties and rent them. Out a few commercial properties and in order to grow that, like sometimes it's okay to have a mortgage or like, you know, like it's not the end of the world, but I've had to totally rethink how I do that because I hate, I always hated the idea of debt. That's why I stayed at home until I was 28 until I knew for sure the company wasn't going to drown and die or whatever. No. Anyways. I love that.

That's perfect. That's perfect. What do you think has been the best advice, business advice that somebody gave you along the way that always sticks with you?

So there's this guy, I've gotten lots of advice and of course my family's awesome. You know, they've helped me and all that. But there's this guy, his name was Jesse McClurkin. He's passed away and his wife, Pat McClurkin, we became kind of friends, they customers, you know, whatever. And I helped. I actually redid her house. They trusted me to like do the interiors. I'm not even an interior designer, but we did it and it was fun and she let me do anything. But what I'm getting at, there was a relationship there. It wasn't just straight transaction. But he told me once, and we'd go out to dinner all the time and stuff. So he owned a used car lot and he did very well with that, with buying and selling cars. And I used to joke that Pat, she didn't, you know, like most ladies have like a purse for their accessory, where her accessory was a car because every time we would do something or go somewhere together, I mean, it may be just one week apart, she had a new, a different car, you know? So it's gotta go. But anyways, he said, don't go into business, grow into it. And he was so successful. And I take a lot of like, I'm like a sponge, you know? And so like, it was, it's just one of those things that stuck with me forever. And I still say it to this day, but he was just a good, whether he knew it or not, a good mentor for me and for in business. I looked up to him even though I would never sell cars, you know, like I don't know anything about cars, but he just grew this used car lot into something that that you would never, you know, imagine that it could be. But anyways.

Yeah, that's great advice. Well, I have one last question for you, and it's kind of like if we just like zoomed way out and took a big picture look at what you're building, and let's fast forward it 30 years down the road, and you're sitting on the front porch, right? And you're with your family and your friends, and you're all looking back on this wild journey that you've been on. And as you're telling that story to your family and your friends, what's the thing that you really want them to remember most about you and the person that you are and how you lived this journey?

Maybe, I don't know. I mean, it would hopefully speak for itself, but maybe that I wasn't so much worried about the margins of the business. And although you have to have good margins to have a business, but I was more focused on like relationship building and I feel like every person who comes into my life is there for a reason whether I like them or not and I try to make the most of that so same thing with like customers, employees, disgruntled or not, disgruntled customers or disgruntled employees, like they're there for a reason and you know like I hope that it it's more about like team building, relationship, like he was so nice, like whatever, you know, and it wasn't like he just wanted to make a dollar and, you know, go off into the sunset. So that's probably, you know, like that would be a nice legacy, I guess. I don't know if that's a good answer to that question, but I mean, margins are good, but it's not what I always focused on.

Yeah. More about Someone once told me, they were like, if you chase purpose, dollars will follow. But I think that's what you've already built. Like, I think if I think about like, man, every time I see you at market or I watch you on social media, like, and you analyze what's working, why is it working? It's because you're living that. It's because that's like, it's so honest and authentic how you show up. So you're doing it, you're in it.

And I really enjoy it every day. So I feel really lucky and blessed to have found, you know, been in a career like this from the get-go, you know, that I've like actually enjoyed. I love getting out. I mean, it's why I wake up at like 3 and 4 AM every morning, like, because I like what I do. Like, if not, I wouldn't sleep, you know, or not. So that's something that is— so the job comes easy, even though it's hard work and labor. That's easy to me. And so, like you said, yeah. The money will come in or the profits or whatever. And then especially if you have some number of people involved, like CPAs and a bookkeeper, then that can really help you stay on track and see what you should focus on and stuff, you know, and what works for your company.

So that's awesome. John Mark, will you tell everyone how they can find you? Also how they can find your wholesale line?

Oh, yeah. Okay. So wholesale is through the Round Top Collection. So you, you can come find us at Dallas or Atlanta Market Center. We're in their showrooms. And then you can also do it online through theroundtopcollection.com. If you're not a customer with them, yeah, you can sign up to be. So that's for wholesale. And then retail and me and everything, you can follow us at John Mark Enterprises on social media, Facebook or Instagram. And I love to do like how-to videos and just just like whatever, even if you don't like, you know, I just like to show what we're doing. And then johnmark.com. And then our storefront is in Germantown, Tennessee, which is like 10 or 15 minutes from the Memphis airport. So if you are traveling through Memphis, come by and see us.

I love it. John Mark, thanks so much for being here today, sharing your story, and keep shining. It's awesome to watch. We love being along the journey with you.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Bye, y'all.

Hey guys, thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. If you found it helpful, please share it with a friend or feel free to subscribe. And I would always love it if you would leave a rating and review. Hey, if you want more tools, education, and just support, head on over to theboutiquehub.com. Or if you have feedback or episode ideas, DM me personally, @ashleyalderson on Instagram. Thanks so much for being here and listening to this week's episode. I'll see you next week.