#818: The Boutique Marketing Strategy Most Retailers Are Missing

Welcome to the Boutique Chat Podcast, where we're gonna help you build a profitable, sustainable business without you having to sacrifice your profitability, your family, or your sanity. Each week we're gonna dive into real conversations with retailers who have been exactly where you are and industry experts so you can learn and know exactly what to do next, all in community over competition. Whether you're just getting started or you're growing past an 8-figure business, you're in the right spot. So let's get into it. Welcome to this week's episode. Guys, welcome back this week. I'm pumped that you're here. Josh Orr, also welcome back to the podcast. Glad to have you back on.

So good to be back. I just, I love this, this podcast. It's so fun.

This is a fun fact, you guys. Before this happens every time I see you, actually, before we start recording or we're like speaking at event and we're backstage, we have to go down many rabbit holes of all kinds of conversation about the world we live in before we actually get to talk about business.

And I would not have it any other way because we share— like, our backgrounds are identical. We were both in politics and then obviously other retail stuff. And so there's a lot of things.

There's so many things. We talked about a few conspiracy theories that we shared or didn't share. Some we didn't share. And I just love that. I— This is what I love most about our relationship. If I could just start the podcast like this, I think that if you constantly surround yourself by people who are an echo chamber and only agree with what you're saying, you're really not becoming the best version of yourself. You're just becoming a version of what you want to hear because the people around you will just continue to repeat that back to you. So I, I love that when I talk to you, we don't agree on everything, and so we'll just like share perspectives. But I think we both walk away like with a new view on life or, you know, just a little bit smarter than we were when we walked into the conversation because there's no ego when it comes to those conversations. What do you think?

I agree. And I think this applies— I can bring this back to like normal life. I think because you and I were both political science majors, we both worked in politics. We're also just kind of confident in like, I know my views, I know who I am, and I am also not my views. And so you can disagree with this view over here and you're not hating me. You're disagreeing with that.

Yeah.

But also because we are confident in who we are in these things, we don't have to bring ego to it. We can genuinely like try just to understand the other perspective. And what's cool is like best case, you still think you're right, but you understand why you're right better. Or on the other end, you change your perspective some. And if you never change your mind on something, You're not really like— you're, you're the problem.

I just love— that's true. Okay, well, it's true if you think like— because you and I both have, have changed our affiliations, we've changed our viewpoints on different political issues. I told you, why am I talking about politics right now, Josh? I said I wasn't going to do this, but we've changed our mind on so many things. But I think that's That's the spice of life is learning, gaining perspective, and then deciding where you go from here. If you just are born with one viewpoint and then you never challenge it, it's kind of boring. You're in an echo chamber.

And what's fascinating is this is not actually about politics. Wouldn't you say it's the same thing of business? You may have your idea of this is the best way to do retail. This is the best way to do whatever. And if we are never willing to change our mind, and we say, this is how we do things, this is how, who we are, and we're never willing to shift, you probably don't have a growing business. And I think when we can learn to do that, that's so powerful. It's not actually about politics.

No.

It's about being willing to change your perspective.

I think that's totally it. You know, my parents always said early on, they, I just remember them repeating this, what got you here will not get you there. And it's really easy to stay comfortable in life, in business, in a marriage, as a parent. I mean, we're all creatures of habit and comfort. But to your point, in business, like, that is the thing that'll get us, especially today, this day and age, right? The changes with AI, the changes in technology and e-commerce, like all the things, the way our customers are shopping is shifting so much. So we definitely have to shift along with them. All right, wrapping this back to business, you have an opportunity to work with so many great retailers day in, day out. If you just kind of took a big zoom out right now, what would you say like your most successful retailers you're working with right now have in common?

Oh gosh, okay. There's a lot of things that I could say like, you know, they've all done this work on their site, they all do this in their emails, they all do this in their ads. But I think before all of that, is really how honed in they are about what I would call their perfect customer. And what I mean is, if I went to any of— if I called any of our clients right now doing 7 figures or more in online sales and I was like, hey, tell me about your customer, you know what they're not going to say? She is this age to this age. No, there won't even be— there's no dash in there. It's going to be, she is 36 years old, she has 2 young children, She stays at home or maybe she works, like whatever that is for you, but they can describe her to a T and everything they do for their brand is centered around that girl. And I think one of the tricky parts, you mentioned like, well, what got you here won't get you there.

Yeah.

I think getting from like 0 to half a million, 0 even to that first million, I don't even necessarily mean online, like brick and mortar. You can do it by like having a little bit of everything for everyone, but the thing that's going to get you past that half a million to that 3, 4 million is actually going to be when someone walks in and is like, oh my gosh, I have found my store. I hope my husband doesn't look at the credit card bill this month because I have found my people. And that is the number one thing that they all have in common is how honed in they are on who they serve.

I look at it like a magnet, right? Like one side of the magnet is extremely attractive. It's going to suck you in, but the other side of the magnet is going to absolutely repel you. So yes, I know this is my store, but also if this is not for me, like I'm instantly turned off. I'll use like Becca Pollack, for example, because I know she's a dear friend of both of ours. She's been a client of yours. I— that is my girl. That is my store. Like I see her store and I'm like, Hale House, yes. I'm going to shop there. But if you don't like bright colors and dresses and girly things, like if you're in muted tones, very like, just wanna be comfortable and casual, that's gonna repel you. That's not going to be for you. So how do you see those stores that have absolutely honed in on their perfect customer? What does it look like for them to both attract and repel who is and who is not for them?

The first thing starts with the owner. And it's actually being okay with that. And it's tricky 'cause we get caught up in fear where we're like, okay, if I start attracting these people, I'm gonna lose these people. Instead of seeing, well, if I'm a magnet, I'm gonna attract way more in terms of quantity of people that are like magnetically attracted to my business. Yeah. And we just have to be okay with the repelling side and recognize that we just can't do it. So it starts with the owner. Um, and I think then the second thing is I think we have to get past all the nuance that we let work, work its way into our mind. Why? Like I see a lot of retailers, they'll go through like these perfect customer exercises and keep in mind, like we work with mostly brick and mortar, so I'll use them as the example, but this applies to online only too. Um, is they'll hone in, they'll, they'll figure out who it is and the next 10 people that walk in the door, don't look like that. And then they're like, oh, we got it wrong. We totally got everything wrong. Or they'll run a sales report and see that the top 10 customers weren't who that person was. And here I think sometimes who's walking in the door and your sales reports actually can be a distraction to who your perfect customer is. Instead, we want to think through like, what were they resonating with? Yeah. And so can I actually share the way I like to think about it?

Yeah.

That's okay. I like to picture it as a triangle because this is the thing that I want to help people get past is, but we really do have a range. Like, Josh, I hear what you're saying, but we really do have older ladies and we have younger, younger ladies. What do we do with those people? Like, they come into our store and they love it. So if we have a triangle at the tip top, you have your perfect customer and that is who everything has to be centered around. Your buying, your marketing, your photography, your models, your site, like everything.

Yeah.

Around them. But then underneath that, in this middle group, you have what I call resonating customers. And so here, like, let's say your customer's 40. Well, you have an older resonating customer who is 65, 70. But if she went to a brand built for 65 or 70-year-olds, she's going to be like, those are old ladies. I'm nothing like them.

Yeah.

So that middle group, you have an older resonating and then you have a younger resonating. Who you may not be speaking to all of who she is like her little girl go out skirts to go out partying might not be you, but you do have what she's going to wear to church. You do have what she's going to wear to dinner with her family. You're speaking to the mature parts of her identity. So you have those that you can keep in mind. And then on the bottom, you have what I call confined somethings, and you just ignore those. So what's really cool is you can essentially focus entirely on your customer, but as you're buying, for example, you can then think, okay, our perfect customer will love this and it has better arm coverage. So I know also our older resonating customers will like it. Yeah. But it still can all be centered on that without having to ignore the fact that we do have a range, 'cause everyone does.

Yeah. Hey, Boutique Chat listeners, this is one for every boutique owner who wants to know exactly what your shoppers want. They want before they hit checkout. That's most of you, right? Your shoppers, they're already telling you. They're saving items for later, they're checking back on styles that are sold out, they're building wishlists for birthdays and holidays, they're sharing their favorites with their friends, right? And that's not just browsing. That's a shopper that is showing you exactly what they're interested in, and most stores have no way to act on it. Swim fixes that. Now, it's a Shopify app that remembers what your shopper saved and brings them back to exactly that at the right moment. Wishlist, back in stock, gift registries. Every time a shopper raises their hand, Swim makes sure that you don't miss it, and it works. Shoppers who save items actually convert more than twice the rate of regular visitors. Swim is trusted by over 49,000 merchants across the globe, and these are stores just like yours. It's fast to set up. It's built for Shopify and backed by a team that is genuinely invested in your growth. Search Swim in the Shopify App Store and get started. That's S-W-Y-M. Okay, that's so good. I love that explanation of it. So when you get that range narrowed down and you have that perfect customer in mind, walk me through like just my day-to-day marketing, my marketing funnel. Where should I really go back and double-check and make sure my perfect customer and how I'm speaking to her is showing up? Like, what's like a checklist, so to speak, or walking through the funnel of where that perfect customer should appear?

Okay. The first one is the one that should, that's, that's the hard one to say. Your model selection. Look, if your customer's 40 and your model's 19 years old, there is a disconnect. Like my wife is in amazing shape and whatever, as a dude, blessed, all that good stuff. She's in great shape, but she will still look at a brand that has these young models and say, That girl's never had kids.

Yeah.

There is something about people look at others in their life stage and they want to resonate with them. And if you have a model that's way younger, what you're doing is you're forcing your customer in their head to start thinking. They're thinking, she's young, she looks great. Of course she does. But how will I look?

That's right.

And we've taken them out of the dopamine dripping of shopping and instead put them in thinking mode. Of translating how's my body going to look in that. And we don't want that. We don't want thinking. We want dopamine. So number 1, model selection. Number 2, I would say, is how are we contextualizing things around her life? Meaning it's not just like— I call it UPS marketing, which is where the UPS guy drops off a box and then there's your social media plan for the week, right? Well, no, like your customer's life They have their vacation they're going on, they have school pickup line, they have dinners they're going to have, they have these life events. And how are we contextualizing around their specific life? And when we can start to do that, that creates your social plan, that creates your site merchandising plan, that creates your email plan. But it's all based on that person.

Yeah.

So those would be the two big areas I would say to start. Obviously, like, there's nuances and deeper things to it, but If someone knocked those things out, like that's a huge thing for their business.

I think this, you and I have talked about this a little bit. Again, going back to this is what your most successful customers have in common. I think a lot of times people will look at the biggest boutiques out there and they'll try to just emulate what those people are doing and try to copy that same strategy versus what you're talking about, which is really honing in on your ideal customer and making that the core of everything that you do in your strategy. What other mistakes do you think that retailers often make when they're trying to map out this marketing plan and maybe they're trying to, you know, put in their ideal customer, but they're still just so focused on, well, if Sarah does it, then it should work for me too.

Oh my gosh.

What are they making?

I think I talk to a lot of retailers every week, and one of the themes that I hear is like this theme of just feeling like we're on a hamster wheel. We're doing all the things, we're checking the boxes, and it's just not working like it should. And I think a lot of that boils down to how much time traffic-producing activity takes. Yeah. Editing reels, getting carousels, all the photography, all those pieces. That just stuff just takes a lot of time and that's okay. But when we do all of those things and we're sending that traffic to a site that is not converting, that isn't offering an incredible experience, that is what makes the hamster wheel feel like such a hamster wheel. And so I think a lot of times it's not that we want to ignore traffic because obviously you need a ton of traffic, but not putting energy into, okay, then what is the experience like once they get there and how are we converting that traffic so that way we're not on the hamster wheel just consistently with all the stuff that goes into it.

Do you think there's two sides? Like you could look at that both directions so you could look at it like Okay, I've built this beautiful site, but I'm not sending any traffic to it. So I feel like I'm spinning my wheels 'cause I'm doing these things and I've got this site, but I don't know how to send people there. Or I'm creating all of this content, I'm going, going, going, but my site sucks. And so they get there and then they don't convert. So you have to have both in order for them to be successful. Let's talk about both independently for a second. So let's talk about media first and content first, and then let's talk about site conversion second.

Yes.

So I've heard you say that retailers today aren't retailers, they're media companies. They're just like a media company. They have to have that level of content on a regular basis. What does success look like for a boutique owner becoming a media company and creating the amount of content needed to drive adequate traffic to their site?

Oh my gosh, yeah. One of— you will never hear a retailer doing well online that will ever use the words like I don't have time for content. I don't have time to take pictures. I don't have time for video. When we talk through like what are needle-moving activities to do throughout your week, content has to be one of them. And look, this, it, this applies to your business and my business too. Yeah, Ashley Alderson, like I've started carving out a day a week and that's all that I do is content because it's that much of a needle mover. And in a retail business, I would say it's 10 times more than that. Yeah. And so like you, you quoted me, we have to see ourselves as just as much media companies as we are retail companies. So we— that means prioritize it. Schedule your days where you are photographing new product, you're getting content, you're— it's built into your cycles. But at the same time, I guess two parts to that is one, When you get started in doing this, don't look at that brand that's 5 years past you and start saying, okay, but I can't get that level of content yet. And so I'm going to wait until— I'm going to wait until I can do this. Well, you're comparing yourself to someone who now has a team doing all these things. But if I went back, like you used Becca as an example, if we scroll back far enough on Becca's feed, guess what you're going to see? Content that's not that amazing. Like, homegirl basically just did a boomerang for every single post and that was it. That was all that she did because she had limited team, limited time, but she made it a priority and she did what she could and then she grew. And that's where her content really was able to level up. But don't compare yourself and know that all of them were using iPhones. So just let yourself off the hook on knowing that it's an iPhone. And then here's the big kicker on the other side. When you do it, know that— and I bet you've seen this, Ashley— we did the photo shoot, we took our pictures, we did these things, we loaded it to our site, we did it on Instagram, and we didn't get that many sales that week.

Yeah.

And it's like, look, here's the hard part, is it's not about that one week. It's did you do it the next? And did you do it the next? And did you do it the next? And did you do it the next? And guess what? Eventually you'll start to see it compound. And that is where those 7-figure brands are built. Not one of them took one photoshoot and all of a sudden was like jumping into the gold tank, like in, like, Scrooge McDuck in DuckTales. I don't know where did I pull that from?

Why are you using DuckTales as an example right now?

Because I've always dreamed of having a coin diving board.

Really? That's been a dream of yours?

No, you would get hurt.

Seriously. I think that like once you have small children, Josh, like your brain becomes warped. And you know what I referenced today on a Retail Bootcamp call? Literally, this is going to sidetrack everybody. We were talking about like viral toys or Christmas gifts or whatever. You know what my reference was?

Ooh, Tickle Me Elmo.

It was Tickle Me Elmo! I knew it.

I had to think back to when I was young because I think you and I are like the exact same age.

So our brains are both warped. Okay, well, thank you for making me not feel so weird because it kind of feels like kind of a creepy— like it's kind of like a pedophile doll. Like, it's weird, you know? You tickle it, it's so gross. Why was that popular?

Oh man.

God, I'm not gonna edit any of that out. Or maybe I will, we'll see.

This episode brought to you by Tickle Me Elmo.

Gosh, yes, okay. So back to the hamster wheel. Yes, don't compare your content to anybody else's because it does, it compounds over time. Same is true, so then on the other side of this, we talked about the content to get people to the site, but the same is true, you build this beautiful site, you hire Josh's team, build this great site, But it's not the Field of Dreams. Like, if you build it, they will not come. Kevin Costner doesn't just appear out of thin air. It takes consistency and time for the website to work as well. So talk me through like a high-converting website. We're going to build it. What does it take to make a website actually convert and be successful?

Yeah, it's so important in all the things that you do. So First off, what I want to say is like, what is it not? What is a high converting site not? I think sometimes we jump to the tactical. I think it's our desire to like, give me a checklist. And if I can do this checklist, then I'm going to all of a sudden have a successful business. Um, and so what I mean by it's not all these things, like I would argue that you can be on the wrong platform. You can be on the wrong theme. You can be on the wrong everything. And still actually do okay than being on all the right things and but in the wrong way. It's not going to grow like you want. But what is cool is if you do get the right platform, the right themes, then the strategy that you're learning, the strategy you're working on compounds and it's like a million times easier to do all of it. So like I talk a lot about this, you know, you share a few themes that you really love.. And one of them I like really, really like, uh, the Impulse theme, which is one you guys talk about. And if you apply a bad strategy to the Impulse theme, which is one of my favorite ones, it's not really gonna convert better, right? But if you can make your strategy like 10% better, just a little bit, that theme has, has the ability to like, it's, it's product page layout. If you can just put a few of these like trust signals in, The things that show your customer like, hey, you can trust us, this is the right product. The theme's gonna make it so much easier. And so that's what I always wanna think through is, yes, we want the right tool, but then what are we really doing here? So the way that I always like to approach it, I have like this whole framework, which by the way, if you have access to retail, yes, in Retail Bootcamp, also at Boutique Summit, I went through this in detail last year at Summit.

Yeah.

And then this year going through a ton of like new stuff, which I'm excited. So if you have access to those replays, you can go back and hear like the full deal on that. But I, I'll go through the first 4 because they're pretty quick.

Okay.

The first thing I'll look at is just site function. Literally, does it work? I think sometimes we skip over this stuff, you know, and this is the checklist. Yeah, this is the like, does my new arrivals collection link to my new arrivals collection?

Yeah.

Does my tops link to tops? Does the tops collection have tops in it? Does the hero image that we have that says, you know, shop spring dresses, does it link to spring dresses? I know that stuff seems so basic, but we skip over it.

But it's broken all the time. I do audits all the time and it's broken. So this is, this is good. Keep going.

Yeah. So does it work? Yes or no? And that is the difference between like a 0% and a 1% conversion rate. Literally it working.

Yeah.

But then you have number 2, and I think this is— comes back to what we talked about earlier, is connection. Does your perfect customer land there and just answer the question? Yes.

Yeah.

This is a site for people like me. And there are brands I could point to that I could point to that have become 7-figure online brands, really just mastering that one. They were so good at the connection they could build with their customer that they didn't have the best site, they didn't have the best stuff, but they were so good at connection that it didn't really matter. So connection's number 2. The 3rd is superpower. Like, what do you do best? Why you? I think sometimes, like, especially in brick and mortar, in-store, they're so good at like the way they do dresses, the way they do tops, the way they style. But the site is just new arrivals. And then none of that, like, this is what we are amazing at comes through on the site. And so we want those things in the navigation. We want those things in featured collections.

Yeah.

We're trying to answer the question, why should you shop with me? And I think a lot of stores, a lot of brands think that their superpower is like, we're the only ones in town that carry this brand. We're the only ones in town that do this. But you move online and like, homegirl, you are not the only one in town anymore. In fact, I can just go directly to that brand. But if your superpower can be the way you understand your customer and curate for them where your customer lands there and like, yeah, I could go to all of those, but I'm going to go to 10 places. You've curated it all for me in a way, better way than I ever could.

Yeah.

And that can shine through. That's so powerful. And the last one is service. Like if you think through a face-to-face interaction, if someone walks in a store and they're like, hey, like I'm coming in, I'm here for a dress. You don't just grab 4 dresses and be like, try these on. But what do we do in our navigation? Clothing, dresses, boom. Here's all of our dresses. But in person, what are you going to do? You're going to ask a question. What for? Is there a length you're comfortable with? Is there a style you're looking for? Well, why would our navigation not emulate the kind of conversations we have? Because that's how people shop. Sometimes people do want to shop just by length. Sometimes they do want to shop more occasion. And so when we can bring those elements, there's more to this framework where it gets a little bit deeper, but you master those four, like that's gonna solve a majority of your conversion problems right there.

I think that's huge. And it doesn't matter, online-only store, brick and mortar trying to figure out how to sell online. I think again, just to reiterate the two sides that we just hit home, like you have to have the traffic and the content, right? To get people to the site. And you have to have the site that's able to convert. You can't have one without the other. I just want to wrap back to this because this is true for everybody, but I know you work with, you know, brick and mortars primarily trying to help them figure out how to get online. What do you think is a common mistake brick and mortars specifically make in this transition to also building an online business?

So here, what I think the mistake that a brick and mortar retailer makes is they try to open an online store like a brick-and-mortar retailer. And what I mean by that is when we see it as like something else. Hey, it's this channel that lives over here. We're not bringing like the soul of our business into our online sales channel. In-store, we have this unbelievable experience, the way we make people feel, the kind of questions we ask, the way we serve them. And then our online store is just a catalog of a bunch of stuff you've listed. But when we can really start to think through not what do people love about my store? Oh cool, they like it. So let's put a picture of my store on my website at the very top. Well, no one experiences your store by seeing a picture of your store.

Yes.

Instead, they think through like when someone walks into your doors, what do they feel? They feel like they're in the right place. They feel like, hey, I belong to something. Right? Like there are other people like me.

Yeah.

Well, it's not that I want to get a picture of that. It's that I want to have what imagery would create that exact same feeling. And if we can start to bring those things and really think through the store experience, not tit for tat, meaning like we ask these questions in store, let's go throw a chatbot on our website. Because no one buys from chatbots. I'm sorry. Like they're helpful, but It's not quite the same. I do. Um, and instead think through what questions do we ask and how can we let the customer guide themselves in a similar way? Um, I, I like to say like really think of it all as one cohesive thing. And when we can learn to do that, and that's a big part of what we help people do is like, how do we not just focus on any one tactic, but really create a cohesive plan across store and site and social and email and ads and all of it be one thing rather than the silo over here that's either like the owner's side project or the thing they've handed off to their team member and they don't want to touch.

Yeah. Oh man. So that's so good. And so, so true. I love that. I wrote down as you were speaking, catalog sales versus the experience.

Mm.

Right at the beginning, I'm like, oh my gosh, I see that so often. Brick and mortar's just trying to create a catalog of you can buy these products from my store online. Versus replicating the whole experience that lives and breathes and is the boutique owner and the experience that you have in person. So I love that.

Yeah. The way you know that that is happening is when you have a bunch of people walk into your door with their phone and they're like, hey, where is this?

Yeah.

And if you're only getting that and that stuff's never moving online, that's your red flag. Yeah. Because every one person that walked in and said, where is this? Is 10 people that saw it and were like, that's really cute. And they didn't come in.

Mm-hmm.

Why didn't they buy? That's the thing that, that would keep me up at night. And that's your red flag of like, okay, something needs to change.

Yeah. Oh, I love it. So good. Um, all right, well, these are all amazing strategies, tips, conversations. I love, I love all of your frameworks and just your thought process. I totally am on board. So thank you for all of this. Um, I do have some lightning round questions if you're ready.

Yes, let's do it.

Okay. All right. Let me ask you this question in the frame of you're a retailer, okay? If you're a retailer and I give you 2 hours back in your day to focus on income generating activity, what do you focus on first?

Oh, I'm going to pick one of two things and I might have a hard time here and it depends on the business. So I'm going to give two and people can apply it. I'm either going to focus on content Mm-hmm. Or I'm gonna focus on team development. Ooh. One of the, the, one of those two things, I would probably default to content.

Love it. Those are solid answers. I like it. Um, all right. What about you personally? What's been the hardest lesson you've had to learn in business and what has it taught you?

Ooh, the hardest lesson. Um, Oh, this one's good. So I was on a call once. It was actually a sales call, like someone selling me on something. And in that call, we get to the end and I'm sold. I'm like, this is the thing that's going to help me move the needle. And I end the call and I'm like, hey, I don't make decisions on one phone call. So like, let's follow up next week. And he's like, hey man, that's cool. Is it okay if I coach you? And I'm like, sure., and I thought he was about to like hard pitch me and he was like, hey dude, I'm not going to let you buy on this call, but is it like, are you where you want to be? And I'm like, no. He's like, okay. And like he says, is it possible you, you are where you are because you make decisions like you make decisions? And I had taken this approach of I am who I am. I make decisions like I make decisions. I think this way. I do things this way. As like an identity rather than being willing. And it wasn't about that I buy on one call like that can be a— that's a wise thing for a lot of people to do. But the general idea of don't let these things become a core piece of your identity. And so learning that I have to be willing to level up, that I probably am not capable today of leading the business I want to own 5 years from now, and I'm going to have to make decisions in a different way. I'm gonna have to think in a different way. But what's so cool is that through things like this podcast and masterminds and events and these powerful things, we have the ability to become that person. I gave a long answer to a lightning round, but you are not stuck who you are being today. What got you here won't get you there. I'll bring it full circle.

Why don't we just end the podcast now, Josh? Because basically that's how we started this whole conversation, was— this is why I enjoyed talking to you, because we can get in and we love to get into these nuanced conversations about Conspiracy theories and politics and what— like, things happening in the world, things I really don't talk to anyone else about, but I enjoy talking to you about because we both can come from totally different angles and what about this and what about that and walk out better than we walked in because we had empathy and new perspective and, um, we didn't try to make any decision out of ego or, well, this is who I am and how I believe. This is, I'm curious about what could be if I open my mind to that possibility. Ability. So I love that you said that because it totally does tie back to what got you here will not get you there. You have to change it. Yeah, love that. Um, okay, what do you think in business— and it could be your business or retail business in general— what do you think is the unsexiest process that drives the most impact?

Ooh, um, hiring. Like It's not sexy, it's not fun, and it, it is absolutely necessary. For those of you listening that don't have a team, hire before you feel like you should. And I'm not saying like way, way, way before, but just know it's not going to just feel like, oh, I'm so ready to all of a sudden start splitting my revenue and have to pay this other person. The day will likely never come that you feel completely comfortable.

Yeah.

So when you have some trajectory and you can see like, okay, my sales are growing, this thing's really going to pan out. Hire before you feel like it's comfortable. Don't wait until you just feel ready because that day will not happen.

Never come. I think it's a mindset too of most people when they're first hiring, they look at it as an expense versus an investment. Oh, I'm going to spend my hard-earned money on paying this person when really the question should be, if I paid this person, how much more money could I make in return? Was, oh yes, the return on my investment when I hire versus what's the expense. So big shift, which brings me to my next question. What is one money mindset that you've had to unlearn or relearn as a business owner?

So I grew up broke, like single mom had me in college, struggled through school. We never had— like, I didn't even have like name brand shoes growing up. I was a Payless kid. Um, okay, good. We share that. And I don't mean for church shoes. I mean, my tennis shoes were Payless. So anyway, yes, I called them church shoes. Um, so anyway, scarcity mindset when it comes to money of just constantly feeling like there's just not enough out there in this whole thing and unlearning that and adopting the belief of like, there is more than enough money out there. In fact, there is more money out there that I could ever need or want or could ever even spend. And I actually am capable of doing things to attract it, both in terms of how I think and in terms of what I do. And when I was able to unlearn some of that scarcity mindset with money, it was such a huge game changer. And I think that when we're caught in that, it— you like attract all the bad stuff that you're trying to get away from by constantly thinking about it.

I think that is so true. I have had to unlearn that exact same mindset, and I think a lot of retailers do, right? When you're— when you grow up broke, and, and sometimes even if you don't, like, you grow up with this idea of like, oh, I've got to save, save, save. And truthfully, the school system is also teaching us the same thing. Like, higher education is also teaching us the same thing. It's more about saving than it is reinvesting. And that whole idea of return on investment, whether it's time, money, resources, effort You name it. So I think that's a really solid one that we all come up from. All right. Well, I have one last question for you, and it's really the big question of the podcast. I think I asked you this the last time as well. I'm curious if your answer's changed. But ultimately, at the end of the day, we're building this business to help people. We're selling things, our retailers are selling things. But fast forward 30 years down the road and you've retired, sold the business, whatever you're going to do, and and I know you've got kiddos. Now their kiddos have kiddos. Let's say there's grandkids on the front porch with you, and you're reflecting back on this amazing journey you've had and the businesses you've built, people along the way. What's the thing you really want them to remember most about you and how you lived?

That's a big question because it's pulling me out of just Capital Commerce where I, like, I'm obsessed with the impact. Like, that's the stuff that keeps me up. But I would want to be remembered. I want to be remembered for caring about what matters most, the most. If I— if 30 years from now I'm reflecting back and I can speak to how I was as a husband, how I was as a father, that is far more important to me than any business success. I could ever have. And if I in 30 years am just filthy rich on a 60-foot yacht and my kids don't ever want to join me on that yacht, it's just not worth it. Um, so I most want to be remembered for that. And then second, and sorry to always add a second, it would be the impact. Like, it's never lost on me that right now, like, you know, I got texted a picture the other day from, a retailer, Julie at Vintage Soul. And it was a team picture that they took because their team's grown a ton and thinking like, man, because of the stuff that we were helping her with and the work she did on top of that, it made this impact. And these people now get to work for this amazing boss, but now they have funds to go do this. And what impact did that make in their kid? And that, um, it's not even about what did we do with Julie. It's 6 layers deep from that.

Yeah.

What happened because this happened, because this happened, because this happened. And it's so cool that when you put that stuff out in the world, your impact is typically far greater.

Yeah.

Than what you ever know.

I love that. So well said and so true. Um, definitely so true. I think when you change a business owner and the part of their business, any part of their business, right, you change their life, change the life of their family, their staff, their community, all of it. And you're definitely having that impact, Josh. Yeah. So, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for coming back on the podcast. I always appreciate having you.

This is so good.

Yes, I can't wait to do this again. Of course, we'll see you at Summit on the stage and we'll link up all of your information, you guys. If you want to get in touch with Josh, we'll have all that in the show notes for today. But Josh, thanks again for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Hey guys, thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. If you found it helpful, please share it with a friend or feel free to subscribe. And I would always love it if you would leave a rating and review. Hey, if you want more tools, education, and just support, head on over to theboutiquehub.com. Or if you have feedback or episode ideas, DM me personally, @ashleyalderson, on Instagram. Thanks so much for being here and listening to this week's episode. I'll see you next week.