Cultivating Community Over Competition

Okay.

I know that when I do these intros for the podcast, I say two things every single week. I say, hey, guys, and I say, meet my friend. Well, this week I double, triple, triple dog mean, meet my friend. I am so excited because Jocelyn McClellan is somebody who I first built a relationship with in Instagram DMS and then have had the opportunity to meet a number of times in person. I've met her husband. I feel like I've met her kids, although I don't really think I have in person. But she is so salt of the earth and so genuine and so incredibly talented in her multiple businesses that I am truly excited to have her on the show today. She has been a speaker for us at our virtual Boutique Summit. She's been a part of Retail Bootcamp. She's been involved in, I think, some training that we've done inside of the Boutique Hub. If I remember right, she's been all over, but I'm excited to finally also have her on the podcast. You know, a few of the topics I think are really important for us to pick up today in learning from Jocelyn are not only is she just as real and raw and genuine as they come, but I love the fact that Jocelyn's been able to build multiple businesses online. It's not just about owning a boutique, but it's also about how she is an online influencer with over 100,000 followers on YouTube and on Instagram, and how she collaborates with other boutiques and how she built her boutique in a way that it's basics so that she can continue to collaborate with other boutiques and really amplify and tell their story alongside of her own, which to me is truly the definition of community over competition. She's also built a heck of a name for herself in a beauty company, in a hair company, and in multiple other businesses that she is a part of. She is a go getter and she is a ton of fun today. Meet my friend, Jocelyn McClellan. I can't wait for you to hear her story here on the podcast. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fash to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey, guys, are you ready for some girl talk?

Today.

Can we just say that's what we're doing, Joss. We're just going to Girl Talk today.

I love it. Let's do it.

I'm so excited. So you are such a dear friend of mine. I have been fortunate enough to know you for a while now through our pal Jesse Jarvis, and get to see all the things that you're doing. And when I say all the things, I admire you because you. You are somebody who has built a brand around just being yourself, being true to who you are. And that has resulted in a few different businesses, which we'll talk about. One of them happens to be owning a boutique, and you're a part of Boutique Hub, but you just have such a strong message that I cannot wait for everybody to hear today. So thank you for being here. Genuinely, I am really excited that you're here.

Oh, thank you. I'm stoked. It's so cool how we've been able to, like, come full circle with a relationship to just from the online world. And so I'm super stoked and I'm sweating bullets that you asked me to be on here. So thank you.

Yeah. Be super intimidated. I'm really hard to talk to, in case you don't know that. It's going to be really challenging. Let's start here. So I feel like you are a great example of taking a virtual pal and making them, like, a real friend, like somebody that you actually want to hang out with. And when I think about business owners that I work with on a daily basis, and they're like, how do I grow a successful boutique? Or, how do I grow my reach on Instagram? How do I grow whatever business it is? I always think it comes back to just being incredibly transparent and real and building relationships through social media, and that's what you do. Like, you reach. I think you reached out to me, or somehow we got connected through Jesse and we just started Instagramming each other. And then it grew from there, and now we've met in person and we get to work together. Talk to me about this journey and how that started for you, how you started to realize just being incredibly authentic online would lead you down so many different paths. How'd that all start?

Mine was a rocky path. Honestly, I didn't even know when I started on Instagram that people were making businesses off Instagram. Like, they were using Instagram as a tool of, like, an ad. I was only. I started for two people in a fitness mentorship type thing where they said, I want to start working out, but I don't know how, and I don't know how to be accountable for it. And then I had a friend come to me and she said, you need to push Instagram. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm full, full fledged stay at home. Mom can't even open, start up a computer. Don't ask me anything. Brady's still my husband. He's still my tech guy, because I've only learned so much and I have so much more to learn. But it was all from her saying, you need to do this. And so when I thought about it, I thought there had to be a specific behind it, but I was like, you know what? I'm just going to talk. And I think luckily for you as well, growing up in the rodeo queen type industry and world is I could talk your ear off. And I always felt like I had something that I could teach or mentor about and. But mine was more like, I've always enjoyed being a friend and I've always enjoyed that connection with people, but I've always been scared of people who come to me to sell something. It doesn't matter what it is, but I've always been hesitant of that. So I knew that when I created what I was about to create, when that friend came to me, it had to be so genuine that I never put people in a feeling that, oh, here she comes, she's going to sell me something. Wait, what's she going to say? And it had to come as a friend. And that's how my, my first intuit was just like, I'll be your buddy. Can I be your buddy? I'll be your buddy. That's how it all began for me, for sure.

I love that because so many people actually come into it quite opposite, like, I'm desperate, I want this life, I want some freedom, I need some cash. I'm going to start a business here, let me sell you something. Most people come to it that way, so I love that. That is your path is so opposite and that's what we teach so much of today. So for you, just so everyone has kind of an idea, you're someone who is really diversified, right? You've got the fitness, you've got hair, you've got makeup business, direct sales, you have the boutique, you make money influencing on Instagram, collaborating with other brands. Did that start, like, walk me through which one came first in that evolution and how one kind of led to the other.

The very first one was working out, like health. Because when I started everything, it was, I had Four babies with bed rest with every single one of them. And it was, I feel like crap. I started working out. I could lift two pound weights. I'm doing these shoulder presses with two pounds and I'm like, oh, I'm just doing the aerobic ones that Jane Fonda was using back in the 80s. And so I had to come full circle with trusting myself and learning to love myself all over again. And when I started the fitness thing, I always focused on the adventure side that became the spiritual side. And then I focused on style and I kept style. Even though it was an outward thing. I kept style because if I felt good on the outside, it was going to turn into the inside. And since I was already taking care of my health and I was seeking out adventurous things, it was a full circle thing for me. So that's where mine started. And then because I gained confidence in that way, that is when the makeup and teaching people with makeup five years ago, I had so much eyeliner on, you could barely see my eyeballs. So I knew, though that I was starting to feel good. And so guess what? Join me on this feel good journey type thing. Instead of me saying, I feel good, so should you. It was like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here to look good so I'm going to try it kind of thing. And it's funny how once I started taking care of me, it just changed into everything else. And now with even talking to brands and companies, that self doubt isn't there like it was five years ago. So now if a company reaches out and they say, can you do this? And I'm like, heck, yeah, I can do that. And I have the confidence to follow it up.

Yeah, that's so good though the message that it had to come internal first and you used external things to help reinforce what was internal. But it really was done in the right order. I want to talk about specifically about makeup and because that today that's a direct sales company. And I think when we're talking about people who get the bad rap for like, I'm gonna sell you something, it's. It's direct sales. But you have been so successful with the company that you're with because you are opposite of that for anyone who's listening, who also does direct sales along with boutique, you know, whatever their multiple revenue streams are talking about your strategy there and how you have grown with that company.

So again, my word always will be trust. So when I even started with direct sales, you know, I came to my Husband. I said, hey, I have this awesome opportunity. I hate direct sales because everybody, like I talked about earlier, I felt like there was something salesy. They only wanted something. Somebody I hadn't even Talked to for 10 years was coming to me to invite me to a party and that it hurt me because I'm the girl that wants to be the friend. So I'll take care of you, but you're treating me like I'm going to make you money. So when I decided to do this, I made myself three promises, and I made sure that I was always going to stick through them. And my husband knew what those were and everything. And one of the things was I wasn't going to reach out to family. And I'm not saying that people can't reach out to family at all. That was just my goal. Yeah. Because my family, I have. I have three sisters and one brother, and all of us are super different. And so I wasn't gonna, like, force any of that on him. So instead, I never reached out to someone. I said, can I practice? Can I just figure out what I'm trying to do here? And it became. I just became more confident. And so from the get go, I never messaged people and said, okay, I take that back. I messaged one girl and I said, because she wears makeup, she teaches makeup. And I was like, this stuff's boss. And she looked into it. She's like, okay, I just want to sell it. And like, okay, all right. But that was like all that I had done, and I wanted to keep it that way. I wanted that. If. If you saw the sparkle in my eye and you knew how much I loved something, whether it be direct sales or selling a hoof pick for a horse like you had, you had to know that there was a reason I loved it, and the reason wasn't money. And so I've just been able to build that trust with people that is true and sincere from my heart. And I've always made sure that as I've built this business, I was never coming to them with a product that I was profiting from. It was a product that I just. So we're clear here, I've already tried this. I already love this. I've tested it out multiple ways. I have a vision of how it can be good for you, too. Yeah. And that's where it is. And I'm not talking about direct sales. I'm talking now about any product whatsoever on this earth. Yeah. It could be a rock. Like, this rock is going to benefit you. Yeah. It could be in hoof pick. Reach out to me if you need me. Just kidding. But yeah, I just was determined to build trust. And that was by far my biggest. The biggest thing.

You know, when you and I first started chatting, we were talking a lot about boutiques and about boutiques you were working with or boutiques you wanted to work with. And something that you did from the start that I find so interesting and so helpful is in order to build trust, if there was a boutique that had come to you saying, hey, could we collaborate? You would. Before you would take the collaboration, you were shopping with them. Like you are doing all kinds of investigation on your own to say, how fast is their shipping, how great is their customer service? I had this issue, how did they take care of me? Like, you truly went in and investigated all these boutiques on your own, and then you would come back and recommend them to your community and then maybe you would have a collaboration with them. But I think sometimes let's talk about direct sales, right? There's good and bad there. Let's talk about the influencer world. There's good and bad there for the exact same reasons. Because people will just take. I'll take the collaboration, I'll promote this because I'm going to make money at the end of the day. Again, trust. You didn't do that. You investigated. So knowing that you. I just, I'm curious. Like, when someone is reaching out to an influencer as a boutique, they're saying, I just really want to work with an influencer. Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give to boutique owners who want to work with influencers in that way? How to make that successful?

So when I started things and I had. But so you had to have. You don't any longer, but you had to have 10,000 followers to get that swipe up, to get where you could share a link. And I would reach out to somebody that had more than 10,000 followers and. And talk to him. I would be snubbed and I would be ignored every time. And again, it took that. Where I'm this friendly person, like, can't you see this value? And it took. It. It hurt my heart because I was like, I'd do anything to help you, you know, and one of the biggest things for me now that I feel like boutique people and other businesses can benefit from, if you have somebody who loves your product, why make them have so much of a following? Because here's the thing. I can go to a girl that has a million followers, but there's only 10 people that truly trust her. And I can go to somebody that has 500 followers, and she's worked so hard with those 500 followers that they trust her, and they're gonna get 300 people that want to do something now and follow your company. And so I think the biggest takeaway is if you have a customer who doesn't have a huge following, but you know dang well that her heart is in it for your business, and you know that she actually shares it. Yeah. And not just like, you know, she's got her girlfriend, she's talking to her girlfriends about you, and she's your cheerleader. She's your girl. Like, why are we wasting the time on these paid promotions that are thousands and thousands of dollars when we don't know what goes on behind their closed doors? But we sure as heck know that sally brought us 30 girls just because she loves us that much. Yeah, that was huge. I never want somebody to feel like they're not good enough to come and talk to me, ever. That's ridiculous in my eyes.

So, yeah, I love that. I feel like I see those questions a lot when it comes to followers and is this type of influencer relationship worth it? But you're right. It's not the size that matters. It's that engagement. It's that, is this person a good fit? And who is your customer who's already in your circle or in your hometown? That would be a really good fit for you. Is there a way, if a boutique were to reach out to someone like that? Let's say it's Sally, or maybe it's somebody that they don't really know that well. Are there certain ways to reach out to someone you want to collaborate with as an influencer or steps you should follow that would make that relationship more beneficial?

Yeah. One thing is, do not reach out to that influencer and say you love things about her, and she goes and clicks on your page, and you don't even follow her. Like, that tells me, what do you love? You took a quick glance, but what do you love? For example, if I. If somebody were to reach out to me and they say, I love how you bring the edgy western to your style. I love how raw you are in your stories. I love how honest you are and how you actually won't talk about a product unless you love it. I've been following you for the last little while, clear back to when you stubbed your toe and cursed out loud, like something that they know. Like, you're like, oh, you really are Invested, you can easily find people like that and then continue to follow them because we have hashtags and you can search areas that people are in easily and find people. When you're reaching out to an influencer, if you're reaching out, more than likely there's other people reaching out. And if you don't stand out to them, what makes them want to be with you? So when they can actually recognize that you, you respect something that they're doing, you're going to have a higher chance of getting them to want to work with you.

Yeah. That's so good. It's a, it's got to be a relationship. It has to be a two way street. There has to be some sort of meet there. Not just you look great on Instagram, wear my stuff and sell my clothes.

Yeah. And one more thing I want to add to that too. From a boutique who's. Well, I'll just send you a PR packet. If you give them something and it doesn't even fit their style. One, the girl does not want to promote that. And two, when she's in a picture, her face tells it all. She's not in something she wears. And three, I want that girl to have that outfit on every time I open my social media because she loves it that much. So if you're following me or you say you're following me, but then you send me stuff that's not even my style. I'm not promoting you ever again.

Yeah.

I can't tell you how many times I will talk about a business that I bought from a year ago just because I keep wearing the clothes.

Yeah, for sure.

It says a lot.

So just to make sure everyone's on the same page with that and understands when you're working with an influencer, it's not about you sending them something, but it's about the influencer coming to your website and saying, oh my gosh, I love this. Can I please pick and wear this?

It goes back to the trust, the.

Trust in the relationship. But do you also sign a contract or have something on paper? So you know when you start a relationship with somebody like, hey, I'm gonna do this and you're gonna do that and like we have shared expectations in that relationship as well.

So it depends what I'm doing and it depends on how big the project is. I definitely think that contracts are beneficial for me and I feel like I might be a different breed. I honestly probably do more work for. Oh, I shouldn't even say this on a thing, but for free, because I am full fledged appreciating what you're doing. You match my branding. You match, we match. So that's another thing that's important to know too. When you're reaching out to an influencer, do you match? Don't just keep going to somebody that you're like, well, she'll bring me, you know, do you guys actually match up? So a lot of times if somebody would reach out and I'd be like, you know what, I'm more than happy to buy from you. Make sure that I love your company, love your product, love how you take care of your customers and then we'll go from there. And I always over deliver with things. And so, but I have noticed that sometimes I have, I have worked with a company. Let's get. So there's this one time that I worked with a company and they sent me a swimming suit and I reached out to them and I said, this does not work for me. Like, it is cutting up my butt. I have four now instead of two cheeks. And I was very upfront with them, but it just was not working. And so because that one wasn't working, I'm like, you know what I'm going to buy with my own money? Another swimming suit from them, See if I like it, how it works out all on my own. And so I did and it was not working out. And I was very clear and upfront with the people and it turned out to be. And they're like, it was not a good situation. And they're like, well, we've been burned by influencers before. And I'm like, here's the thing, bro, I've already. I was very upfront with you with how this product was not working for me. And that's when I think it's super important. That's a perfect example of like, it pays to work with companies that you buy from and it pays to work with companies that you want to support because if you just work with any of them and they're demanding that I'm going to send you product, you have to share it. This, this, this and this way you might not be happy. And then your followers don't know if they can trust you or not, and then they're going to get it. And then they're like, that was crap. And then they're going to like, so everything she says isn't accurate.

Yeah, that's so true. And that really what you're saying, when I think about it, it goes both ways, whether you're the influencer, whether you're the boutique owner. Really the two are one in the same, I think anymore. Like as a boutique, you're influencing too, whether you're buying your products wholesale. Right. And reselling them to your customers. It's the same level of trust that you're asking that a successful influencer has to have as well when they're getting products from companies and sharing it. So it's all one and the same. And I think part of being successful going forward as let's say a boutique owner, because now you can talk about that on a whole nother level is that like level of almost influencing as a boutique owner. I know you guys are always asking about live selling and e commerce solutions, so I wanted to invite you just to learn more about Comments Sold. With Comments sold you can host live video across all of your platforms, automate your processes and get started. Support from a dedicated team. Comet Soul retailers typically increase their sales by 200% within six months of getting started. So what are you waiting for? Join over 7,000 thriving retailers and get exclusive boutique Hub member pricing when you start your free trial today@commentsoul.com the Hub. So you went from collaborating with lots of other boutiques and then you decided, you know what, there's certain things that I just personally love and now I'm going to start my own boutique to share those things. But I'm also going to keep collaborating with boutiques along the way. I feel like I've said boutiques 45 times in the last 30 seconds. Oh my God, are we even on the same journey together? So you were working with boutique owners, you started your own boutique. But what is cool is in the model of community over competition, not only do you now have your own boutique, but you're still working with others as you do.

Yes.

Talk to me about that mindset and that decision to start your own while still collaborating with others.

So all of the research that I had done with a lot of different shops, I needed to make sure that there was a couple of things in place. How easy is your shop to shop from? How well do you reach out? Like if I reach out to you for customer service help, are you reaching out back? How long does it take to ship? Is it easy to ship? Do you charge a ton to ship? I had one boutique that I wanted a shirt and shipping was going to cost me like $30 and I was like, I can't. And it was from the US to the US and when I reached out to him, I didn't hear back from him at all. And so it was like, I feel like if I am going to shop at a small business, a boutique, it still has to be easy. It can't be. Otherwise there's a high chance I'm going to go back to a bigger department store. And so with my boutique, I, I felt like I needed to make sure that I was trying my hardest. I'm not perfect by any means, but I was trying to fill those things that I, I didn't, I wasn't always seeing from another website. Their pictures were too small. They had pictures of the front but not the back. There was no pictures of the butt. Even though I'm buying a pair of denim, I couldn't zoom in to see if I really liked it. They didn't do a detail shot. It was a far away shot. I wanted to make sure that those were things that I added and had on my boutique so that people felt like since they can't touch it, they can't feel it, they can't fully see it, I had to paint the picture for them. And so that's when I started doing that with, and I started up a boutique. And I had told myself, like, I have to make sure I hit these things that I felt, not with everybody, but I felt could have been a stronger point with some boutiques.

You and I were talking once, we were talking about how easy it is if I'm a consumer to either a go to this online boutique that I love to shop or just bypass and go right to Nordstrom. And at the end of the day, a boutique owner's job is to say, you know, come shop with me and here's why. And I think you did a good job of just illustrating some of those points, some things that commonly do get missed. What, what makes you different? Those simple things like taking a picture of the butt if you're going to buy some denim is a really big deal. Tell me other ways you think that boutique owners can just take a second glance coming in through the front door of their business to make sure that they're hitting the mark and giving people a reason to stop and shop with them. What do you think are easy things to avoid to be successful?

I think up front, if your website can't be fast, if your website, the pictures have to be tiny and different sizes, if you have to have 300 pages open because your website only allows four pictures to be per page, you have to think of yourself as a consumer when you go shop on a big website. What are things that you like about those websites that yours might not have now. It's not saying that, well, they have a bigger company, they have a top notch designer. It's so awesome. The opportunities that we have now with starting from scratch and what companies have like that Shopify might have, that they have a setup and a theme already and we might try and dodge because something costs a little bit more or not. But it's like if I can't shop on your website fast and easy, I'm not going to stick around. And if it, if, if someone else can, then I might go elsewhere. But I think what keeps people also coming back is the whole trust thing and that they can fill your vision. Branding's huge for me and sticking with like what it is you're trying to let your, your customer feel from you and when they can feel that vibe. For example, if, if my goal, I always said like my motto is to take classic pieces and, and make these basic pieces for your, your wardrobe. And I was going to let other shops do the rest. Like we're going to take your closet and make it extra with our basics. And if I am always sticking to that thing and asking myself that every single day, how are you? How are you keeping this all honed in? Then I'm doing my job and the customer won't lose me in the process. But if I keep going all over the place, then they will. And I will say that with some of my things, I didn't keep to that. And I sit back now and I'm like, why did I do that? Like, it doesn't fit my branding. So you have to learn the very first stuff I bought. I do not like for the boutique when I started. But you learn, but you just have to keep circling back to can the customer navigate. And I had people shop that had nothing to do with my business from day one that like go through my website and see if it's easy to shop. What am I missing? And that helped too.

Yeah, I went on a bit of a rant about this a while back inside the Boutique hub and I made the point that just because you're small doesn't mean you have to look small. And I think sometimes we get on this. I'm a small business owner. Maybe woe is me. Like because you should feel sorry for me because I'm a small business owner, you should shop with me. Like sometimes there's victim mentality that makes its way in and I always want to help people flush that out and say, you know, I'm small. Look how awesome my branding is. Look at how Well, I fit what you're looking for. This is so cool, what I'm doing. You should definitely want to shop with me. Isn't it cool that I can do this and be small at the same time? And so I just challenge people sometimes to think about that mindset. Just like you're saying, how can I be incredibly true to my brand and who my ideal customer is, but then still make sure that the details are just as important as I go. Would you agree?

Oh, fully, fully. Because if you don't have a focus, even shopping for your boutique, it's going to be hard because there's like an art to it in enough. Like, you can buy too many jackets, you can buy too many pants, and not enough. You can buy too much of this and that. But when you hone in on what it is that you want. So all of us that have a boutique, there was a reason why we did it. What's the reason? And are you still sticking to what that reason was that you show your customers every day? Did you start because they like how you dress? Well, is the stuff that's in your shop how you dress? And they. You already had people coming to you that that's how they like how you dress. So have you veered off that beat your path, or are you still sticking to what you told your, you know, what you knew your customers wanted? Yeah.

That is so good. So take me back to. Again, I want to just hit this point that I think it's so cool you started a boutique after collaborating with boutiques and now you still collaborate with boutiques. And I. However you just said it a minute ago, like, you can rock all my basic pieces, but I'm still going to send you to all these other stores for all these other things. To me, that is such a community over competition mindset. And that's what the Hub is all about. Walk me through what that means to you, because I think sometimes there's people that are intimidated by like, like that philosophy. Right? Like, can you really have a boutique and collaborate with another boutique owner and send traffic both ways? Tell me how you view that whole motto of community over competition for your businesses.

Well, going back to the trust thing.

Yeah.

If I have a boutique and then all of a sudden I'm only wearing my boutique's clothes and nothing else, but probably, maybe when I go out with my girlfriends, I hurry and slide on a top from somewhere else that I already had in my closet. You can't keep only wearing your stuff. Like, let's be real here a Lularoe chick. Does she wear Lularoe clothes? And that's all she wears. If you know what Lularoe is. But if the trust is instilled within your boutique and within yourself. If I have a girl that is selling a top that I know I like, and I'm not selling it, and I know my people want it, how are they gonna trust me any longer that I'm like, oh, you know what? It's old. It's old. Like, no, I'll go tell her where she got it. Somebody has to be supported. Why? Like, they want it, I don't have it, and I can't get it for them. So why not support the person that does? I think your people are only gonna love you more myself, but that's just me.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I. I always use this analogy. I think about when you go to the grocery store and you walk down the bread aisle. Have you done that recently? And you're like, who buys all this? Like, there are so many different loaves of bread and brands. And then you could go over to the bakery and you could get something else completely different over there. Like, there's so much to choose from, and bread has a shelf life. Like, we all know bread molds, but clearly there's enough people buying all these different types to support all of them. And I think our businesses are the same way. There's a gazillion boutiques out there today, and it's only. We're only getting more right because of this economy that we're in. There's so many new entrepreneurs today. But even with that, there is more than enough to go around because we're all slightly different, right? We all bring something different to the table.

Oh, for sure. For sure. You might realize that when you share those other names, their. Their best friend might be around that corner. You, you know, like that owner that you just gave to them that might be. Become their best friend, and they're going to be super appreciative for you for having the guts that even though that was your competition, quote unquote, that you still trust them. And you trust yourself enough that. No, you know what? I'm going to do her a solid that at the end of the day, like, why God wants us here is to love each other. And. Yeah, I just. I think it speaks volumes about yourself.

Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. I want to go back to a couple minutes ago when I was totally word vomiting on myself and nothing made any sense. I'm going to try that one more time, because I think the point that I was wanting to make something that I think you do well and ties into this conversation is this whole idea of multiple revenue streams. It's not just about being an influencer or being in direct sales or having a boutique, but you do all of the things. And I hear this question from boutique owners a lot, now more than ever is, how could I build a personal brand to go along with my business? Is there something else I could do online that really supports this business? From your perspective, someone who's big on Instagram and YouTube, I mean, you're. You're all over the place. How can entrepreneurs do a better job in 2022 and going forward, really diversifying those revenue streams? What are different, you know, products or different companies or different collaborations that boutique owners could explore so they aren't just relying on selling a boutique product alone.

I think the whole taking the pushiness fill out of it and it again is going to circle back to the trust. So I know a lot of companies that are out there that even direct sale companies, that they'll allow you to sell their. Their goods in your boutique. And when they see the love that is surrounding the product, your consumers, they're way more likely to trust you. But now let's say, for example, I'm going to sell laundry detergent. Okay, they can't smell the laundry detergent, but they can get a vibe that you give them. And so when you're being you, when people say, I'm too scared to put it out there, are you putting too much pressure on yourself that you have to present in a specific way? Honey, I'll put curlers in my hair and no makeup on and in a robe. And if I'm putting a load of laundry in, then I'm real with people, you know, and that's gonna do the job because they are like, dude, did you just see that she has her hair in curlers and no makeup on, and she's just doing her laundry, talking to us. And, like, you could only smell this. Yeah, she's where she's rocking that moomoo. Like, people want real. I was telling Ashley earlier that when I first started this, I thought the only way I was going to be successful was having my nails done, buying new clothes every week, showing my new clothes every week. You'll never get, guess what I just got in this package. And guess what? If you can't see me now, my left hand has fingernail polish on it, and there's no nails any longer. And my Right hand has nothing. And it's because I'm at the point now it's like, you get me for me. And we. We always scare ourselves that we're not going to be good enough. But the people who are following you, there are definitely key tricks that we could go on for days that allow people to see you more. Like face a window, face good light when you are recording stuff as much as possible. That's a huge tip because people can actually see you better and they can make that connection with you better. I can give you so many tips as far as photography goes, but you'll get it. You'll figure it out, and the people will love you more for it than just trying to sell. Be their friend.

Be their friend. I love that. Well, Joss, we have been in all kinds of rabbit holes today, but I want to thank you for this conversation. Thank you for being a friend. Thank you for being a part of the boutique hub. Thank you for. I know you've spent time with us inside of Retail Bootcamp talking about photography tips, Instagram tips, influencer tips.

So good.

All of the things. And I look forward to hanging out with you in person soon. But thank you for who you are. You guys, if you don't already follow Joss, we will link up all of your links, all the things you've got going on in the show notes today. But thank you for sharing your message today and just being incredibly real with us. This has been very valuable.

I feel like we need to, like, sing the Golden Girl song. Thank you for being a friend at the end. But I think it was. We started this out with saying we're going to girl talk. So I think down different rabbit holes was. It was great because there's so many different revenues and sides to each business that having these random questions in these random directions that we went, I think that's. That's kind of just where we're at. Right. Yeah. Right now, I think.

I think we could do a whole nother podcast just again on YouTube, strategy, Instagram, strategy, photography tips, all of that. But today, I just really wanted people to see, like, there's so many opportunities for you to be successful online when you just go back to this one core message, and you said it at least 20 times, and that was trust. You are who you are, and people love you and trust you for it. So thank you, because that is a true gift and I appreciate it.

Yes, it stands the test of time, that one. Absolutely.

Jocelyn, thank you so much for being on the show today.

I appreciate you yes, girl.

Love you.

Take care.

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