Episode #208- 5 Essentials For Your Website with Angela Froschl, Hot Mess Consulting

Hey, it's time for episode number 208 with my friend Angela Froeschel of Hot Mess Consulting. If you've been a part of the Boutique Hub for any amount of time, you probably have come across Angela and her awesome work on websites. So if you've got e commerce questions, this is your week. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works, from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat. So I'm trying to remember how I first met Angela. She became a member of the Boutique Hub as a boutique owner with Thonginit Boutique, and she became the girl that so many of us just really enjoyed building a friendship with. She was always so helpful. She would help people who were struggling with Shopify or had design or branding questions and just say, hey, from my experience, you know, this is what's worked for me. And really, it seemed like one thing led to another and soon she was starting her own business, Hot Mess Consulting, which is such a fitting name for the life that she wants to lead. And you're going to hear why today, Angela is such a woman with a giving heart. She wears her heart on her sleeve. She is willing to give you the shirt off her back if you need it. And you're going to hear more of her story and really what's led her to live her life that way and to be such a giving person and business owner. But you're also going to hear today some really actionable takeaways that Angela wants you to hear, because these are commonly asked questions she gets when it comes to branding and website design. I love working with Angela because not only does she have that experience again as a boutique owner, she's been there and done that herself. But now she gets to serve boutique owners, her clients, in a brand new way with her branding and consulting business. So get ready, we're going to talk about the five things that you need to work on for your website and branding stat. And when I say five things, I don't mean just five things. I mean like five things with like five to do lists of things underneath the five things I mean. She brings a lot of detail to this podcast episode, so in case your arms are cramped from taking notes because they darn should be. If you are hungry in this business, check out. There's also a download that Angela provided for everyone who's a member of the Boutique Hub inside of our training library. I tell you what she's giving like that. So go check out that download. Take tons of notes in this episode and I know if you've got questions, reach out to her and ask because she is your go to gal. So, guys, I hope you enjoy this episode. Thank you for listening. I hope that you leave us a rating and review if you love the show and let us know what you think anytime over on Instagram oticubusiness or my personal Instagram ajalderson, because I would love to hear from you and to hear what you're doing while you listen to the show. So have a great week. You guys enjoy this episode. Hey guys, welcome back to the show this week. And I'm so excited about the guest that we have because I know if you're part of the Boutique Hub, she's no stranger to you. You've probably seen her in our groups offering helpful adv, but also supporting a number of your businesses with Shopify, setup and design and all kinds of help when it comes to answering your e commerce questions. So please help me welcome my friend Angela from Hot Mess Consulting and also a boutique owner. So we've got dual knowledge that we're going to cover today, right, Angela?

Oh, yes.

Well, I know we have a lot of, like, key takeaways and technical pieces that we want to cover today, which I really appreciate so that we can keep the podcast as actionable as possible for everyone listening. And I know that's right up your alley too. But before we get started, you have a really unique perspective, like I mentioned, because you are a service provider in the Hub and you work with boutique owners, but you are, because you have that extensive knowledge yourself. So can you start by just kind of telling us a little bit of the backstory about how you got started with your boutique in the first place, which then kind of led you to this additional pivot and opportunity?

Yeah, so I've really always known that I wanted to run a business from the time that I was like a little girl running like a paid palm reading stand and lemonade stands and just all kinds of stuff.

Wait, a paid palm reading stand you read as a kid?

Yeah, I only, I think I only had like one gentleman, like actually pay me, but I had like this little slip that I give him, even that I filled out like it was already like a pre Made slip where I was just gonna fill out the answers based on looking at his palm or whatever. And no, I did not know at all what I was doing.

So what did you tell him?

Do you remember? No, I wish I did, though.

Well, that's unique.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I could go on and on. I have a bunch of funny stories of, like, different businesses that I tried to start when I was little and stuff, but so. But somewhere along the line, you know, like, I. I mean, I knew that that was still what I wanted in the end, but I kind of lost, like, sight of the possibility of it. Like, I kind of lost faith in it a little bit. You know, you get. You get to be an adult, you graduated college or whatever your path is, and you just like start getting into a career and you kind of get stuck there. So I was an admin for like 8 years before I finally started my boutique. And it was a really terrible health condition, pretty much cancer. It's complicated. It's called a desmoid tumor. But it really kicked my butt for about five years. And it was near the. During the worst of it, like when I was bedbound. And that's a whole nother story on its own too. But during the worst of it is when I finally like, woke up and was like, oh my gosh, like, I can't wait to get better. And I'm scared about how long it's going to take to get better, but I'm actually more scared of getting better just to go back to the life that I had before that, where I wasn't chasing my dreams, where I forgot what I wanted out of life. And so I was kind of able to use that time instead to be like, this needs to mean something. And so, and, and, and so that's what I did with the boutique. I actually, like 13 years ago, I wanted to start the boutique and it was going to be called Thong in It Boutique because I was going to specifically sell thongs. The panties and flip flops. Those were two of my favorite things at the time. And I made a website, which I actually kind of had to do like the coding on myself because this was like before Shopify or before any of these programs, just made it really easy. So I was using this thing called Zen Cart. And again, I had to get into a lot of coding just to make it look even a little bit cute. And anyway, so I did a bunch of stuff, but I just never pressed go and really started the business. So fast forward to dealing with this health issue that was Opening my eyes. And I. It was literally, like, in the middle of the night, and I was like, okay, what am I going to do next then in my life, like, if I. If I don't want to get better because I don't want to go back to where I was. What's next? And it was literally in the middle of the night that the boutique came back to me. And I was like, oh, my God. And at the time, Lularoe and everything, like, leggings were all the craze. So I was like, well, what if I could start with, like, leggings or something? So I looked up wholesale leggings, and right there at midnight is basically when my boutique started rolling around, like, trying to figure out what to do. And literally on my phone, so as I was looking for leggings to buy wholesale, you know, everybody was like, oh, you need your wholesale license. You need your wholesale license. So I googled it right there, and I was able to apply in California for my seller's permit for free, all on the phone, like, in 10 minutes. And so. And that was it. And from there, I. I just took off with it, and I never stopped.

Oh, man. I. I remember when you and I think first connected, you must have just started your boutique or you were fairly new into it, I feel like. And were you still maybe battling the tumor big time at that point? I feel like I remember you telling me about being bedbound during that time and just how that spurred you on, which is remarkable. Like, good can come out of such bleak situations.

Yes, yes. And the tumor. So I am basically almost three years, or just over three years, something like that, tumor free. And this was a tumor that has a really high recurrence rate. And so, like, a lot of my counterparts, like fellow patients that I'm still friends with and stuff, are still suffering, and they think that they'll be suffering their whole life. And at one point, I wasn't sure whether that was going to be the case for me either. But I have this really strong will, and I'm always like, I am never willing to settle. Like, this is good enough for me. Tumor free was the only thing that was going to be good enough. So when there was doctors saying, oh, if we can just get it to stop growing any bigger, when at the biggest, it was 20cm and it was in my hip, it caused problems walking, all kinds of stuff. So they were like, we don't recommend you get it removed, because it'll just come right back. And. And I did get it removed, and it did Come back. But. But then there was more treatments after that. And anyway, so now it's been like three years. And so, I mean, that's another thing is just like, never give up on, like, what it is you really want. Don't settle for what you have right now if what you really want is more than that. That's kind of off topic, but your question was.

Yeah, no, but it's.

So when I was so crucial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, when I first started, I was bedbound and I was off my off work on disability from my regular job. And so, you know, I was low on funds because disability doesn't pay you all you normally get. And I was still recovering and learning how to walk again because my first surgery, they took out my gluteus maximus on the left side. So I literally had to like, learn how to walk again. And I still have a limp and will always, but whatever. And so, yeah, I got started still in bed and just on my computer and just kept trucking along.

So at what point as you were going along through this, you know, in building the boutique, building the online piece of this, did you realize, oh, man, there's other people who have questions around something that comes relatively easy for me as you began to figure it out, really, how did that all transpire?

It's so crazy, like, how it all happened as far as, like, the boutique and then Hot Mess and like, I always knew that I wanted to help other ladies, like, really early on in my own business. I was. If people came to me asking for business advice, I was really happy to help them. I mean, I never wanted to, like, give them bad information. So I, you know, wouldn't go beyond what my knowledge was. But even if you just started your boutique, there's always going to be somebody that's behind you that you can help that's just a few steps behind or whatever. And so the main thing that I helped in the beginning was, like, I would help ladies with, like, branding. Like, I had a friend that sold handmade jewelry and she really didn't have a logo or colors picked out, you know, even just the basic stuff. So I kind of helped her with that and get her business cards designed. And this was long before I ever charged for my time or ever even thought that, you know, that this could be a business or anything. So Shopify itself, like, and websites in general have always been an interest to me. And when during, like before Hot Mess, I spent most of my time working on my website, like, that really was the main thing to me. Like, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and that's also something to consider when you're looking for help or when you're looking to grow. Is like, what do you do best? And keep doing that, and what do you maybe not do the best? And can you outsource? Because it's not always. Sometimes it's about quality. Sometimes it's just about time. Like, time really is money when you have a list of things that you're amazing at, and then this other thing could take so much of your time that it's just not worth doing.

It's an absolutely true growth principle. Actually, Sarah says this all the time inside of Retail Bootcamp. Do what you do best and hire the rest. Because, yes, there's no doubt everyone can hustle and figure it out, but that does. It costs you money. And what is your time worth? And are you truly valuing that at the end of the day?

Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

How did you come up with the name Hot Mess when you first decided to start this new journey?

So this name actually started out as what I was gonna just do. Like, I was just gonna have a blog, and it was just gonna kind of talk about my journey on starting my boutique, and I was gonna share it with other people in case they wanted to just needed some inspiration for starting their own business or even not a business. But, like, whatever it was they were working on, you know, like, believing in the impossible and just taking the steps needed to just do the thing, whatever the thing is. And so that's where the name originally came to me. And that one just came to me so easily because it's just the truth. Like, I've worked with hundreds of hubbies and boutique owners in general now, and we. We are all Hot Messes. Like, if we say otherwise, like, I mean, anybody who comes to me and says that, they're not, like, I know they're immediately lying.

True, true. So as you work with retailers on a daily basis. So not only. You were just. We were talking before we started recording this show that got gals helping you with Hot Mess consulting sitting in another room right now. And you've got other gals sitting in another room working on the boutique. As you continue to build this really cool empire that you've started, I'm sure you hear feedback up to the minute feedback from boutique owners on a daily basis about most commonly asked questions they have with Shopify. Specifically, can you talk about what maybe some of those commonly asked questions are and how you could help some of these gals who may be Thinking of them right now.

Yeah. So the most common question that I actually get, even though what I help with specifically is Shopify websites and mailchimp templates and your branding. So even though those are the pieces that I help with the most, the question that I still get the most is, will your help bring me more sales? And the issue is it's really the wrong question to be asking. I mean, like, there's different pieces to the puzzle as far as your success and, like, bringing sales in and branding is definitely one of them. And marketing is a whole separate thing. So a lot of times people seem to get those kind of mixed up. So, like, the main thing with Shopify is if you're not looking at your data at all, we kind of can't even have a conversation about this yet. But so the first thing that I usually ask when I'm asked that question is like, you know, how many average daily visits are you getting to your website? Where are those visitors coming from? And then what is your actual conversion rate? Because it's important to. So, like, a lot. I'll get a lot of potential clients or just people asking questions that are, like, getting a lot of traffic, but it's not converting. Like, what can I do? Well, we look at everything and they're only getting like around 25 visits a day or so, say. And really that's not enough to even be looking at. I mean, you still should be looking at your conversion rates, but at 25 a day, that's probably just like really organic traffic. Coming from the few posts that you do on social media, those are probably like, your friends and family and people that are already following you. So those are like warm visitors, for one thing. And it's just not a lot. It's not enough visitors per day to really gather anything super useful from your data. So if you're only getting like 25 visitors a day, well, your first goal really needs to be to get that to 50, whatever you can do. And we'll go over this more a little bit later, I think too. But, like, what can you do to get those visits up? But, you know, so if you're less than that, you want to get to 50 once you're there, goal should be 100 visits per day, and then just keep going that way because, I mean, you do want to look at your visits and your conversion rate, but until your visits are high enough, you can't really, like I said, just make useful inferences from the data. So, and then the conversion rate itself, I mean, remember that the Average conversion rate is only like about 2% in our industry. So like where are you according to that? And if you're starting to increase your traffic and this is brand new traffic coming in or it's colder traffic, so it's people that don't already know you, your conversion rate is going to be lower too. You know, you might be used to having like a really high conversion rate when nobody's really looking at your website, but that's because the very few people that are looking are your friends and family and they're already ready to buy. And so you really just want to work on getting that traffic up. And then the other thing is like how is your website when the traffic is hitting your site? Like, is it, do you have enough inventory? Do you? Well, we'll go over some of this later, but really that's the main question that I get is like, can your help bring me more sales? And honestly my answer is no because there is so much, there are so many other factors in the success of your website and increasing your conversion rate and everything. Like I'm just a piece of the puzzle, man.

I love that, I love it. And so I think what we should do next, we were kind of strategizing, man, how could we lump all those pieces into one flowing topic, Right? Because you're right. I always use this analogy that being a successful boutique owner is like a four legged stool, right? Where you have to be great, you've got to have great financials, like financial know how, you've got to have the right inventory, you have to understand marketing and then there's like the whole personal mindset piece. So there's so many pieces that go into you as a successful business owner. But I mean even just you and E Commerce has all these moving parts. So let's Talk about this. 5 things to work on for your website and branding ASAP so that you can generate more sales, right? Yes. So tell me about what is number one for you.

So one of the first things that I work on with clients and some don't have an issue with this at all, but is your menu and navigation. So this is the thing that's hard is that your menu and your collections is something that you often, well not often, you always set up, you know, right when you very first start your boutique and website. So you don't know on that day what you're going to know like a year later. And I think that a lot of times the issue is just that clients never go back. Boutique owners in general never go back. And kind of reevaluate if their menu and navigation is even still working. So they just keep adding more items to their menu, adding more item, more collections. But really what you want to do is sit down and be strategic about your collections and how they're organized. Because you want it to be as easy as possible and as fast as possible for your customers to get on there, find what they're looking for, find your best sellers, which are your bread and butter. So you want to make this all just as easy as possible. So for one thing, if your menu has so many links, like you're just your whole main menu that it's in two lines, it's way too long. It really should all fit into one line. Like that is your first goal. So how can you reorganize things so that what's most important is right there is a hot link and otherwise it's in like a dropdown. So for shop, for example, I'll have say that you sell women's and kids clothes just as an example. You, you would automatically probably already have too many categories to just have them all listed on the main menu. But what you could do is like shop women, shop, children's, and then each with the dropdown and then even the dropdowns, you don't want to have like 15 to 20 links. That's going to be too many that some visitors. And when I say visitors, what I'm talking about is old visitors that are new to you. These are the ones that you want to work hard to convert because the ones that are coming from your, from your Facebook group that love you anyway. Like, they really don't care what your website looks like and they probably don't even care how easy it is to use. Like they don't care if it takes forever to load. They don't care if it takes them a while to find something because they can even just message you and be like, hey, where is this? So what I'm talking about is trying to make this easy for the brand new person that's really valuable to your business. Because if you can get them to convert once and even twice, then maybe you can, you know, have another loyal customer there. So when you're organizing so like Shay shop women's clothing again, you don't want a super long list. You want maybe like ideally like 5 to 6 underneath that. And then if you need to subcategories from there, you can. But I would only do that if you have a large enough inventory to do so. So like if you have, if you're gonna say that you want to do tops and then you want to subcategorize. Short sleeve, long sleeve, tunic. Well that's fine as long as each category is gonna have like at least 10 to 15 items at least. Because you don't want a bunch of categories that are empty and you didn't even realize they were empty or they or even just like have only a few items because you really want it to be as simple as possible for your customer to see like most of what you have and to make it look like you have a full catalog maybe even if you don't yet. So just if you really do have a large catalog, like especially if you have a brick and mortar, like of course subcategorize it totally makes sense. But if you don't, then just don't do that yet. You can always do that later when you grow. Start off with just tops, bottoms, dresses, you know, that kind of thing. So really just making sure that everything is organized in a way that makes sense. Your best selling. Like if you have a best selling brand, you may want to put them right on your main menu. But again you also want to consider like a lot of like if you're, if you have a brick and mortar store and say this is your first website, it may not matter what's the best selling in your store because your online website is going to be for a totally different audience. Or that's what you have to assume anyway. Maybe some of your visitors will also shop on your store. But again those ladies are already loyal to you. They don't care how your website is going to work as much as a new visitor will. And like if you sell, if you sell a really large variety of things in store, you may not want to, you may want to leave some things off your website altogether and really focus on just clothing versus like home decor, that kind of thing. Because you can always add things back in. But your the audience that you're going to be trying to attract for your website is likely going to be different than the audience that you attract for your store.

Very good tips. Would you besides the shop category question for you, besides the shop category on the main navigation, is there any other calls to action you would include on the top navigation?

Yeah, so I always like to make sure that clients have obviously an about page and on this about page make sure it's not third person. People these days want something personal. So why did you start your boutique? What does it mean to you? What kind of a difference do you want to make in the World, like who are you besides the boutique? All good things to talk about. So an about page and a contact page and those can be in one drop down. Make sure that your shipping and return policies are really easily accessible right there too. And then if there is somewhere else that you really want to point them to, whether that's download my app or join my Facebook group, like that somewhere else, something else that you can have in your main.

Perfect. How do you feel about sale categories and where those should be listed in your navigation?

Oh yes. So I definitely have an opinion about this one. And if something else works, I mean, take everything, first of all, take everything I say with a grain of salt and everything everybody says with a grain of salt because you know your business best. But my opinion on sale categories is that they should be nowhere on our boutique sites at all. We should have, you could do sale categories that pop up temporarily. So it could be like every other month that you're like, oh, we have some sale items and you're promoting that, you know, via email and via your Facebook group and wherever else you're posting on social media. But have it be something that's temporary. Like when you have visitors to your site, you don't want them to shop the sale items, you want them to shop your full price items because that's what keeps you in business and profitable. And if you give them a limited time, like you only have 48 hours to buy these sale items, then if they're even thinking about it, they're going to act then rather than know that they can always go back to it. And I just think that the sale and clearance categories are kind of, I mean we're boutiques, like we're not discount stores. So I just think they, they really shouldn't even have like a regular spot if you really have a lot of stuff that you need to move that way. That's when I think it's better to just get creative and you know, look at some of the. Whether it's destashing to other boutique owners or there's a couple groups like Gypsy Bargains I think it's called now that you can sell directly to consumers, but they're not your consumers. Because that's another thing is like before you try to do a lot of sales with your own girls, like where else can you try to get rid of this stuff at a, you know, even if it's at a discount, that isn't going to affect your primary customers that you really need to be shopping at the full retail.

Man, I love That I didn't know that that was your opinion, but that is super smart. Makes sense. I love the temporary idea, especially, you know, when it comes to, like, seasonal transitions. Right. Like after winter, when you're trying to get rid of all your sweaters and everything else. It totally makes sense to have a clearance category, but only during that. That time. Right. And you can really drive that sense of urgency that. That's really smart.

Yeah. Because there's also, like, trying to sell it in person or, you know, even your group is a better place to do, like, a purge sale thread now and then, then to do it on your website.

I love that. I love it. All right, what is your number two piece of advice when it comes to working on your site?

So your brand story and voice. So this. This is a hard concept for a lot of folks, but I mean, basically, I would just sit. If you. If you don't know your brand story or voice already, I would kind of just sit down with it, like, in a quiet space where you can kind of close your eyes and really think about, like, the story that you're trying to portray with your brand and the personality. Like, is it very faith based? Is it mom based? Is it really, really sassy and bold? Like, what is it? Can you name, like, five things, like, five adjectives about your brand? And then how can you make sure that those come across in everything, in every piece of copy and also all the graphics and imagery. So one place that this matters is in your about page in your product description. And look, none of us are perfect. Like, I have one of my girls does my product descriptions right now. And so they're not always, like, totally amazing. Like, I mean, you can't get absolutely everything right, but if you can just always be looking to improve these things, that's better than, you know, so. Yes, but, yeah, so your product descriptions, you're about. Even the graphics on your homepage. Like, what does the text say on them? Like, is it, you know, just bland? Like, or is there a little bit of personality behind that, too? So, and then also in your social media posts, you want this to be apparent. And you know what you could do too? Like, especially this is hard because if you're outsourcing it, I mean, for example, if you're hiring like a VA to do your social media posts, well, unless that VA is really good at copy, those posts could be bland. So one thing you could do is when you have time, I know we never do, but, like, sit down and create a list, like a spreadsheet of like copy ideas, just words and short phrases and things like that that really tell the story that you're trying to tell with your brand and then you can share that with those people that are working on your items.

I love that. Even one place I love to go look at like unique copy and marketing ideas. Number one is Mailchimp. You know, if you log in, they're like say 404 pages or just how they speak on their website is so unique to them. But then also the men's brand chubbies. Do you follow Chubby's?

Oh, I've seen one of their emails. I don't follow them, but it was definitely.

Oh my gosh, you of all people would just love them. Their stuff is so clever. Yeah, but I love just what you're saying, how you can take that unique voice and micro copy everything and just put it in a doc that's super smart.

And the thing is, it's even places that you don't expect. I mean, okay, so social media posts, product descriptions, about page, the graphics on your homepage, but there are so many other little nooks and crannies that you can get that, that personality and brand voice into. So like every single email that you send, the names of your categories, the names of your items, although I am partial to using descriptive names for like SEO purposes, search purposes, and just so that your customer knows what they're looking at. But you could try to, you know, you could kind of have them still be fun names that are also descriptive. But it's just the point is like, you know, your business card, the thank you package insert that you send them, like all of it. Any way that you can infuse that personality, like every last little line.

Yes, I love it. All right, what's number three on your list?

So this kind of goes along with the last one, but your photos, graphics and imagery. So again, once you figure out like the story that you're trying to tell, the feel, the vibe that you're trying to go for, and your colors. Of course, when you're branding, you really should have specific colors down to the color code figured out. So once you have all that going, how are your photos going to help you build that brand rather than just be floating out there like, like Ross photos or something. So, you know, and obviously like a lot of people have trouble with this. Photo shoots, like, you know, they take time and energy to coordinate. Sometimes they take funding that you may not have quite yet. But I, I just really think amazing photos are so important. Like one of the Things with my business, my boutique, is that, like, from day one, I never even thought of using, like, stock photos. Like, I didn't even think that was. It's not that I didn't think that was an option, but, like, to me, it was not an option. But one of the things that's really cool about doing your own photos anyway. Even in the beginning, I started with using my own cell phone, even though I'm not a great photo taker and with a few of my friends that were willing to model for just a free pair of leggings, which is like five bucks, right? So start where you are and just build on that. And the nice thing about it is it also starts to build a community, like, around your brand. So my friends were, like, excited to be involved, you know, and then so they got even more involved with my boutique, and a lot of them shopped more with me than they would have otherwise. And then they're excited and they share it with their friends and that kind of thing. So there's a lot of good reasons to do photo shoots even besides just good branding.

But absolutely.

The photos that work in your group, like, selfies, even behind, like, a dirty mirror, like, hey, those work in your group, like, you're. Because, again, the girls in there, like, love you or they wouldn't be in there following you. But on your website, you really want to make a different impression because you're really trying to lure someone in who's brand new and doesn't know you already. So I just. It's just one of my biggest things. Like, I didn't do this as when I first started making websites for you ladies. I didn't stress this as much, but lately I've been really getting in with each client. Like, okay, what can we do about these photos? Like, what can I do? Like, to convince you to do a shoot for this website? Because even if, say, that regular amazing photo shoots are just not going to work for you, you work full time, you don't have the funds. Da, da, da, da. Well, can you fit in, like, two a year, three a year, where you're doing, like, a really amazing photo shoot so that you have photos to keep your homepage fresh and to use for marketing purposes and to have for your social media as something above and beyond the other dirty mirror selfies that you have on there? So, yeah, I'm just all about amazing photos, but. And they just help build your brand, too.

Totally agree, man. And they can't be stolen across the Internet, right? Or they can, but it's a lot easier to set yourself apart, for sure. How about.

Yes, especially if, like, you're running ads. If you're running ads off of stock photos. I mean, hey, like, if it's working. Because that's the other thing I said to take what I say with a grain of salt. What anybody says. If something is working for you, don't stop. Like, keep doing more of it. But, yes, but, man, like, I definitely do not recommend running ads off of stock photos.

Truth? Truth. All right, let's talk about your number four, because I really. Oh, man. I think not enough people think about this one in terms of, like, the overall view of their business.

Yeah. So basically think about your customer's entire journey. So we've kind of talked about little bits of this already, but your customer's journey. And again, let's think that this is a cold customer. So somebody who doesn't already know you. Right. Like, first of all, how are you attracting them? Like, your first step is visibility, getting in front of them. So mostly this should be through organic social media posts. Whether it's your Facebook page, page, your group. Pinterest is a great one for that. Instagram and Instagram stories. Right. So this is all organic, unpaid, or if you do want to start to get into paid, it would be like brand awareness, Facebook ads. Right. Just kind of getting. Getting in front of people. Like, right now, you're not trying to. You're not trying to get them to jump right into buying because it's just not going to happen like that. They need to see you several times. They need to get comfortable with you. Like, but how are you going to get them to see you at all and just get in front of them? So this is where your brand matters in your. In the post that you're making everywhere. So again, the personality, the photos, the graphics, the cohesiveness of everything, like, if they see you on. Actually, I had a client recently that I'm working with right now. She came to me with, like, certain brand colors and a certain. I had, like, a certain idea about what her brand was based on, like, the survey that she filled out. And then I. As I was starting to work on her project, I looked at her Instagram and I'm like, girl, this is so bright and fun and, like, gorgeous. And this is nothing like what you were telling me to do for your website. So you want it to all be cohesive. Not only because, like, if you're spending energy attracting people to this, if they get to your website and it's something else altogether that's just not helpful. Oh my gosh.

So I feel like I have those stories of coming to people's websites going, whoa, not at all like you expect it to be a certain level of class or price points. And I'm sorry to totally interrupt your train of thought, but I think where you're going, so many people today are wondering, how can I charge more when their brand is reflecting a lower price point appeal. Right. So you're spot on with how your website really needs to reflect who you're wanting to portray.

Yeah. And it's hard because with the social media platforms, every social media platform has its own rules and culture, basically. So maybe like, so with this client, I almost thought, well, maybe she just thinks like that's the best way to attract people on Instagram. So that's what she's doing. Or maybe she's outsourcing it and she doesn't even like this. And that's just how it is. And her real brand is what she's been telling me over here. But when I talked to her, it wasn't the case at all. And she was willing to go deeper with me on working on this to create something even better that really matches, that's just cohesive all the way around. So it's hard. Like you don't want to, you don't want to like conform to a certain social media platform because you think that that's going to be what's best if that's totally against your brand. So it's finding that balance of like, what's going to work on these platforms. And you know, maybe it could be that your platform doesn't have any need to be on Snapchat, for example, like, if none of your potential customers are ever going to be on Snapchat, then, you know, don't waste your time there kind of thing.

Yes, amen right there.

Yeah. So first is getting visible and next is like getting them to your website and hopefully to your amazing website. Because remember, if you're sending, if you're doing all this work to get people to your site and maybe you're even starting to pay for ads, then your website really should be amazing so that when those cold visitors are visiting, they're not just immediately bouncing and they're intrigued enough to kind of like stick around and maybe come back because they're not going to purchase the first time they land on your site. So it's going to take them at least a few times. I was just someone on the hub was saying the other day that they were tracking an order and it took 22 visits for that customer to finally make a purchase. So is your website good enough for someone to come back to? 22 times?

Man Truth right there.

So getting them to your website and this. So traffic, basically getting that traffic up. That's what I was talking about earlier. Like if your traffic is only at like 25 visits, how can you get it to 50 then how can you get it to 100? Well, again, so organic social media, call to actions, make sure that you're actually posting that link everywhere. Like don't make a post and not post a link. Now this won't work for everybody. Some of you guys are really into comments sold or keeping it in your Facebook group. And that's another way to go. We're talking about growing your website sales in particular. So those are two totally different. So if your goal is website sales, then you need to be posting those links everywhere under the sun and then, you know, moving on to Facebook traffic ads versus just the brand awareness. That's when you kind of know that you are on the right track. Your website's good. You've got inventory on your site and now you're trying to just increase those traffic numbers. So yeah, and with the inventory, it's like just making sure that like you have a large enough variety of items that when someone lands on there, they're you know, not looking at like two tops to pick from. Like they really need to see several options. And then also like, are those available in multiple sizes or do you have like a ton of items that are only available in small or only in large? Like if a customer has to click around too much and nothing is in their size, they're just going to leave and not want to come back. So yeah, visible. And then getting them to your website and then getting them to follow you from there. So on your website, how can you attract them to join your email list? So that's like a pretty pop up. Maybe offering something. Like right now on mine, I just started offering a free pair of leggings with every purchase and that's only $5. Like I just stocked up on leggings and that is totally worth a brand new customer to me, you know, like if that helps. And just getting them on my email list in general. So how can you get them on your email list? How can you get them to download your app? A lot of my clients now are asking for banners and buttons and whatnot on their homepage that will go directly to download the app. So. So that's always good. How can you get them in your group if that's a big channel for you, like, whatever it is. So getting them to follow you. And then how do you keep your brand like on the top of their mind? Like, how do you just kind of keep that visibility up? So that's just like posting consistently on your platforms and making sure those posts are on brand. And often, so often to me is definitely at least twice a day, depending on the platform. Instagram should probably be more than twice a day. And you should definitely be using stories, which I'll tell you, Instagram is not my jam. So, like that, I'll say that, but there's a lot more to it. My jam is Facebook for sure, man. So, and then sending out your emails, mailchimp. And again, making sure that's all branded, pushing out notifications if you have an app, and then retargeting them when they add an item to cart. So, like, you can be retargeting them through Facebook messenger emails. Again, push notifications. And every step in this process, again, how can you make sure that this is branded? So, like, if you are doing Facebook messenger retargeting efforts, I can't even think straight. Are your messages the same sassy, fun tone that the rest of your, your site and brand is? Because it really does make a difference. Like just kind of giving, like giving that, that potential customer an experience rather than just, you know, a run of the mill. Like, I don't know, just bland. Like my. One of my taglines is like, are you blanded or branded every step of the way? Like, how can you make it fun for them?

It makes it memorable for sure.

Yeah. And then post purchase. So like, after they purchase, what happens? Like, what are the automatic. You know, Shopify sends out like 17 emails on your behalf from order confirmation. Abandoned Cart is one of them too, actually, right through Shopify. And then all the shipping confirmations, like, even those you can make fun. And there's a cool app. So the app that I use on my clients is called Orderly Emails. So you're definitely welcome to check that out on your own, but it just really allows you to customize the look and feel and copy and everything for all of those emails that go out. And then how is your packaging? So, and this one's tough because I have a lot of clients that are like larger volume and they don't necessarily always do a whole lot with the packaging, but especially when you're first starting out, I mean, make each package count. So the tissue paper, the stickers, like all of that can and should be branded the thank you package insert, which can either have like a discount to try to lure them back in for their next order or request like a selfie using your hashtag. Like, how else can you just kind of wrap it all up and try to get them to come back and interact with you again?

I love it, man. I think that what you shared was everything that you've shared so far. We're going to have to put into a PDF download and put in our training library as a bonus if you're listening to this episode, because that is pure gold right there. And it is literally from start to finish mapping out the customer journey. That's brilliant, Angela.

Yeah. And I actually like, I wanted to make just that PDF, but I'm like between four employees now and I'm just like going crazy. But it's still on my list, so maybe by the time this airs I can.

We will make it happen. We will make it happen between you or us. We will make it happen. Because that has to be shared. It's so good. So as, as you're just like recapping this for everybody listening right now and they're like, oh my gosh, I have a book of notes. Let's just really shortly recap those five key things to work on from a high level point of view if you want more sales from your website right now.

So the five things to work on are your menu and navigation, your brand story and voice, your photos, graphics, imagery, your customer's entire journey. And as far as the journey, how I broke it down was gaining visibility, getting them to your website, getting them to follow you outside of your website so that you can keep talking to them, keeping yourself on the top of their mind. So keeping that visibility up, retargeting them when they do finally add an item to cart, and then treating them well or just giving them a fun post purchase experience.

Perfect. Thank you for sharing that again. My goodness. So as you look back at all the clients that you've helped so far in this process, would you say, is there anything that sticks out to you as something that your most successful clients have had in common?

Yes. So my most successful clients for sure were ones that really, really took ownership of their business. So they really knew that my help was just a tool like rather than a magic pill, and that the success of their new website and their business in general depends on really no one but them at the end of the day. Like, I'm a resource and there are things that I'm good at and things that. But at the end of the day, like, all the responsibility still falls on you. Like, how are you going to use this amazing website and brand that I've helped you build? Like, are you going to continue to infuse that brand into all aspects of what you do? That kind of thing.

Oh, man.

So the best ones. Like that. So. And when I say, like, the best ones, the ones that are most successful, meaning that they really get the most out of their investment with me, they really get involved with me, too. I mean, I know that we're all busy, so. And I think that, like, when I first started making websites, like, people were coming to me really just needing something thrown up because tech isn't their thing. You know, it was a kind of a bonus that I could make it look pretty. But now my goal really is to slow down with each client and really, really work on the bigger picture with you guys. And so if you're just trying to save time, I'm probably not the best person to work with, because I'm actually going to make you work a little bit with me. I am still going to do the tech stuff and the graphic stuff and the creative stuff and put it all together for you, but I need your input. So, yeah, the best. Will they get involved with me? They ask questions. They're curious. They're open and communicative with me. They aren't worried about offending me, and they also aren't offended when I give them feedback or courage or critical. What is constructive criticism?

Well, it's good. It's like a gym membership. Right? Like, with anything, you only get out of it what you put into it. So I think that that's spot on in terms of increasing the value that you're being able to give your clients.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. It's really. It's a work of love.

All right. Truly a work of love, man. We could talk all day. I feel the same way about things inside of the boutique hub. Right. Because you can come in and have access to all of that. And it is a work of love. But if you don't do something with it or take ownership of it, you aren't going to get the results.

Yes, exactly.

Very much. Spot on. All right, should we have some fun? Can we do a quick lightning round before we wrap up our conversation, which has flown by today?

Yes.

Okay, so lightning round. First answers that come to mind as I ask you this questions. Deal.

Yes.

All right. Favorite book?

Way too many to list, but maybe, like, Big Magic.

Ooh, good one. Favorite podcast.

Dial your Mind by Kara Alwale Leyva.

Oh, I don't know that one. We'll have to put it in the show notes. I'm not familiar with that one yet. Okay. How do you take care of yourself the most?

The short answer is I don't, unfortunately. But I'm working on it, and that's a goal for this year. So I'm trying to get in 30 minutes of bike time, like, at my apartment's gym here every day, and it's really hard. The hardest part is just pulling myself away from the work and going and doing it. But it also gives me a chance. Like, I have a lot of really good books that I'm working on, and it gives me a chance to kind of zone out and focus on something other than the businesses.

Man, you're spot on. And, you know, I think that so many of us fall into that same trap. Right. We feel like we have to stay busy in hustle mode to accomplish things, but sometimes we can get even more accomplished when we just take that step back and take care of ourselves first. And it's amazing the ideas and just the clarity that can come to us through that experience.

Yes, definitely.

All right, biggest fear, Snakes, payroll or Internet trolls?

I think Internet trolls.

No one likes mean people, right?

Yeah, well, like, I actually just started running ads for my own boutique. I really was doing that all organically. And then we do in person events that we sell out to and because, like, my. My ads are a little bit bolder, like about carrying all sizes and. And whatnot. I think they're. Because they're bold and in people's face. I'm actually getting a lot of comments on them, but a lot of them are trollish. You know, like, oh, well, you say you carry all sizes, but you only go up to 3x and da, da, da. And I agree, I agree. But it's still like, did you have nothing better to do today?

Right. Oh, man, I call them couch jockeys. We had a similar. We had a post go a little viral a few weeks ago, and. Same thing, just like your boutique. Actually, I think your boutique may have been featured in this blog post, but it was about how one size does not fit all and the need for curvy sizes. Right. Extended sizes. And we actually started to get negative comments from, like, one or two people on, well, there's not enough out there for extra smalls and petites either.

I have that too. So online, not only was somebody like, well, you don't have larger than 3x somebody else that was thin Said, well, I was really offended when I went to your website. Or no, disappointed. And there were no petite models because, like, right now both my models are like a size extra large. I'm working on that. We had a petite and then we had two, and then they're not available anymore anyway. So. Yeah, I have that too. And I was like, yeah, well, normally it's the other way around, so.

Right. Not your customer. And that's okay. Right. You stay in your lane and you own who your ideal customer is.

Yes. Yes.

All right. Boutique or boutique?

Boutique for sure.

Perfect. All right, so let's wrap up with this because I know you alluded to a lot of your personal story at the beginning and just the journey that you've been on, which I think watching your journey from afar has been so cool. I mean, I really commend you for what you've built and the tenacity that you've had in doing so. And I think that you're really leaving something very special for those who are in your path. Right. Those who are your clients and. And people like me who just get to watch you from afar. So I'm curious, as you think about the life that you've led up until this point and the journey you've been on and the business that you're building, or businesses, plural, that you're building in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years down the road, and you look back at this journey, what is the thing that you want people to remember most about what you created?

So there are two pieces to that. The first one, and if you were to ask me this question, maybe even a year ago or two years ago, for sure it would have been this first piece, which is, your wildest dreams are possible. And, you know, because I won't take too long to get into all of this, but if you don't know me that well, like, I also self published a tell all called why the Hell am I Not Wearing any Pants? And that kind of goes into this further if you're ever interested. But basically, like, I have, you know, I haven't had an easy life. Like, I was, you know, raised by a single teenage mom. My dad is like a meth addict, like, in and out of jail. I finally went to see him again, like a few years ago. It had been like 15 years or something like that. And he, like, there was like literally no way to even connect with with him. Like, he was like impossible to talk to and just like a child, basically a child in a man's body. So I was never given Anything. Like, I worked really hard to put myself through college and going to college and working full time. And I've been out on my own since I was 19 as far as, like, fully supporting myself. And so just that if I can, like, if I can make my dreams come true. And right now that, like, my. I'm already living, like, beyond what my wildest dreams were, you know, at one point. And if I can do that, really, anybody can. But the second piece that I want to add to all of that now is, yes, your wildest dreams are possible, but also you. You can have it all. So once you reach that now success, I mean, you know, you can never just be done, you know, like, because you're always going to be building on that dream, or you should be anyway. But my big thing now is proving to myself and to all of you guys that we can have it all. We can have the success. We can use our dreams to fund our lives and leave our day jobs and all that kind of stuff, but also still have some balance in our life and also, still have joy and also, still have time to do the things that we always wanted to do. Like, a couple months ago, I booked my first trip out of the country. I've been wanting to travel since I was, like, a little girl. And I'm going to be going to Bali in May, like, alone. And, I mean, I'm, like, getting nervous even now. Like, it's a couple months out, and I'm like, oh, my God, I have so much work to do before then. But, like, honestly, like, if we're not living our best life in general, then, like, why are we here anyway? You know? Like, because we all came here for freedom and to have, like, a better life. So I really think we can reach success. And then once we're there, we can also learn how to slow down and enjoy life again, too. Man.

Man, I love that, Angela. I think there is something there literally for everyone to take away, no matter where they're at in their life's journey. Right? Because there's so many ups and downs from starting a business to finding what you really want that success to be, to actually, like, you are feeling like you've reached that point and now what's next? Right?

Yes.

Yes, man. Well, I just really want to thank you again. Thank you for your time. This is the second time you and I have got to go through this process together, but I'm so glad that we did, and I'm so glad that our paths crossed and that you are the person that you are. And the way that you help our community inside of the Hub is just awesome. You are so helpful inside of the groups, always there to lend an ear or a hand or advice. I just really want to thank you for that and what that means to us at the Hub, but to our entire community.

Yeah, definitely. And I am just so glad that I found you guys. And both my boutique and Hot Mess really would not be here without you. And it's just. It's just amazing. The community. Like, I never, I never really like, fit in in school. Like, I was definitely never popular, but I feel like I just, I fit in with you guys here and I just love, like, I cannot wait for summit again to see all of you.

Agreed.

Agreed.

I can't wait to see you too, man. Thank you so much, Angela. You guys definitely check out the show notes for this episode. We're going to have links so that you can connect with Angela directly, ask her your questions, learn more about business. But also we're going to try to get that PDF download for you into our training library at the Hub as well, because, man, there is a lot of meat to take away today. So again, guys, thanks so much for listening and Angela, thank you a million for your time today.

Yes, thank you, girl.

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.

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