How To Grow Your eCommerce Store in 2022

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast this week. I am so excited you guys. I hope you have a notebook ready because we have one of the brightest minds in all of digital marketing on the podcast this week. If you Google E commerce or SEO solutions, chances are you've run across Neil Patel or one of his several companies to help optimize your e commerce site and entire digital performance. Today, Neil is with us Just to break it down and make it so simple for you in terms of how to grow your email list, how to build an affiliate marketing campaign, how to optimize your website, how to really make sure SEO is working for you and how can you get more exposure online. So truly one of the brightest minds in marketing. I'm so excited you guys have this opportunity to meet him. Without anything further, let's welcome Neil Patel. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to the show this week. If you are catching the podcast, you can also catch us on YouTube for a video version of this week's episode. This is kind of a big deal episode you guys. We have one of the greatest marketing minds, I would say in the world on the show today. It's a really big deal. Neil Patel, I have followed you for such a long time. Thank you for being a part of.

The podcast today and no problem, thank you for having me.

You have so much experience in every single topic. I would love to rabbit hole down today so I'm not going to hold back. We're going to jump right into it. A lot of our listeners today are E commerce store owners. Many of them also have brick and mortars but I would say the far majority are E commerce. And what a changing landscape we've seen just in the last couple of years post pandemic. I think more change in E commerce than we've ever seen in this industry. So I'd love to know, let's just start out here. Advice you would give, let's say first to new business owners, new e commerce store owners in 2022.

So the big thing that we're seeing with new e commerce owners is is they focus on one channel like whether It's Facebook ads or SEO or Google product listing or even Amazon. And once they get one channel working, they focus on it, they scale it up, they get their business going, but they usually stop. They don't tackle in most cases the other channels. And there's. That creates a few issues. One, if something happens with that channel, there goes your business. Two, if you ever try to sell your business, people aren't going to pay you a lot of money for a one trick pony type of business. They want diversification, but multiple revenue streams, even if it's one product. But what are the channels that are driving the revenue? So my big piece of advice is yes, you should start off with one channel, but don't end with one channel. Once you start getting it going, you have to really quickly adapt and leverage more channels. Whether it's Facebook, whether it's Snap, whether it's Instagram, whether it is SEO or pay per click, or even leveraging Bing. A lot of e commerce store owners forget about Bing, but there's volume there. Maybe not as much as you want, but it brings a little diversification. Even if it's 3% of your sales or 5% does extra 3 to 5% of your sales. Right. So adding in all those other channels will drastically help you on the valuation when you sell the business. But two, also make more revenue. That's the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice is you'll find that paid ads are really hard to make profitable. And it usually is the case for new e commerce stores because they're selling one or two products or a handful of products. Even if you're selling 20 products, it doesn't matter. Typically the issue that comes about is when someone checks out, it's one product that they're buying. You got to add in the upsells, the downsells. If they don't take the upsells, recommend other products, create packages where they can buy multiple things together and offer deals for that. But when you do that, you'll start noticing that your numbers will perform much better with the paid advertising and your ROI will work out and you'll be able to scale up your ads.

Do you think there's a certain threshold? Like if I'm a new business owner and I'm just trying to get traction in my first year of business, is there a certain threshold of traffic I need to have before paid ads really make sense for me? What's the, what's the like crossover point?

I would say you should start it from day one. If you can make it work from day one? Why not? We see most E commerce stores, even in the mom and pop space do better on the paid side than they do on the organic side. And I would do all of them as quick as possible as long as you have the resources and bandwidth. Most mom and pops don't. So that's why I said off with one channel. That could be SEO or paid. Paid is usually quicker to get results, more expensive, less of a roi. But for every dollar that you're spending, percentage wise. But you can scale it up much quicker.

Okay, I want to go down the rabbit hole and get into a lot more detail on a few of the things that you just mentioned. But let me go back to the first question. So that was advice for new business owners in 2022. What about more advanced e commerce stores in 2022? Where should their focus be?

Conversion optimization. It is one of the ugliest topics in marketing because when you most people talk about it, no one wants to listen. But it's where E commerce stores need to spend their time. Great example of this is Legion athletics. My buddy Mike owns it. Okay. And it's a supplement company and they're not small mom pop anymore. They're well into the eight figures. And when you think about them, you know they've been around for a long time. They didn't really spend too much time and energy on conversion optimization until 2021. And you're talking about conversion optimization provided a 40 plus percent lift in their business, made their paid ads more profitable, made their SEO more profitable, made their influence marketing more profitable, made everything perform profitably. But no one wants to really talk about it and take the time and energy to run these experiments. But you have to. You have no choice because marketing is continually getting harder and more expensive over time.

That is such a good point. I always compare it to the field of dreams. Right? Everyone kind of feels like an E commerce if I build it they will come and such crap. So talk, let's talk about about that. Let's break it down for you. I would love to hear from again a beginner side of things and advanced side of things. Conversion optimization. Where do I start on my site?

Conversion optimization, the easiest place to start is you look at your analytics and you look at what pages within your flows have the biggest drop off. Is it that the cart page, the checkout page, the product listing page and then from there you start running tests, you survey people. Hey, what's wrong? What else do you want to see on this page? Go to some of your Competitors that you know are bigger like look to see what they do on those specific flows and try to get some inspiration and run AB tests. You can use software like Crazy Egg, vwo, Optimizely all to run the test.

That's so good. I think so often I'll say specific to a lot of our customers and listeners on this podcast. Everyone's using Shopify so they feel like, oh, I got this out of the box solution. It should be optimized for me. What else do I need to change? I would bet that you would argue with that statement. Correct.

That's correct. Yes. It's never fully optimized. If that was the case, then most people like me would not be in a job Perfect.

All right, talk to me more about conversion rate optimization. So what do you think? Specifically on a cart page is a common miss or a missed opportunity for people?

Yeah, so the cart pages are pretty simple, but sometimes you get a drop off because people aren't sure if they want to continue. So showing the value in the product, a quick overview of what they're buying, maybe some bullet points, sometimes some testimonials help letting them know that there's a money back guarantee or refund policy or free shipping is huge in E commerce. Some of those things, adding them to the cart page can sometimes help push people over into the checkout page.

I think trust, like something that you just said really stuck out to me. That's just trust. There's so many e commerce stores and when you are fighting a battle with someone like Shein, for example, specifically in the fashion industry and you can buy some knockoff crap for $8 that came from overseas, people want to know am I going to get this and it's going to fit me or it's going to fit like a Cabbage patch doll. What's going to happen here? So I love that example. What about a product page? Let's take it like back one step further. What are some of the most common mistakes you see on product pages?

Not having beautiful pictures. Yes, that is one of the simplest things that we see. Boost conversions, 360 degree view, multiple shots, multiple angles. Talking about benefits like free shipping, ratings, reviews. If you're selling products that have usage amounts like cost per serving, that would be another one breaking it down. So that way people have another way to compare price points. Overview on the benefits, the pros, the cons, other related products, bundles. These are all things like if you have low inventory, letting them know how much is actually left. If you're running promotions, countdown timers but all those types of things could do really well on product pages.

I love all those things. I hope you guys took notes on that. I think a lot of times people get into this business and they think I can compete on price. And I always use the Walmart example. Cheap ain't loyal, right? People are not coming to your website because they want something cheap. They want value. And that's how you have to describe it. What about the use of video on product pages this day? Do you think that's a deal breaker or where industry's headed? Gotta have video?

No, I think video is great. And we see hybrid examples of this in product pages. Some people will showcase a product and it'll be like a 3D interactive tour where you can zoom around or control the mouse and you can actually see the product by dragging the mouse. It's kind of like a video kind of not. Videos also help. Unboxing videos also help when people unbox and they record it. Showcasing that as well helps too.

All right, let's back up to the homepage. Ways to optimize for conversions right on someone's homepage.

So on the homepage, again, free shipping. I can't emphasize that enough. Showcasing your most popular products, your deals having the right hierarchy and structure, so the site's easily to navigate. Make sure that the search bar, if you have multiple products is there so people can quickly find what they're looking for. Use learning search that continually adapts and showcases things at the top that people are most likely to click on. But those are some of the things. Also, having your site really load fast, whether it's your homepage or internal pages. You know, letting people know that you have free shipping and money back guarantee. So not just free shipping, but letting them know that money back guarantee or refunds, all this is really useful. The Amazons of the world or the Walmarts don't have to do a lot of this stuff because they already have trust and people know they're big. So they're not as worried to see a testimonial on Amazon on maybe a specific page, like a checkout or a cart page. We're mom and pops, right? Mom and pops. We have a little bit of a disadvantage or quite a bit. And that's okay.

Yeah. Two things you mentioned. I just want to make sure if you're a new business owner that you are familiar with what these things are or maybe how to test for them. One is page speed. So can you talk first about where do I go if I want to know what my page speed is and how to optimize my page speed.

So go to neilpatel.com SEO- analyzer or you can go to ubersuggest.com put in your URL. URL in the site left hand navigation, there's a site audit button. And it'll actually tell your page speed for free how to fix it, what's wrong. And it'll tell you for both desktop and mobile.

I love that you've got all kinds of good tools. I liked watching you try to go through that in your head there, navigating your own website. How about a B testing? I. I know a lot of business owners, even advanced ones in our community that have probably never actually a B tested their site. Can you explain first what that means and then how to go about testing?

Yeah, AB testing is you're showing one variation to a portion of your traffic, let's say 50% and another variation to the other 50% and you're seeing what converts better. And you don't have to be a developer to AB test. There's tools like Google optimize for free or there's tools like VWO or Optimize your crazy egg. That costs money. They all probably have free trials. And you can use wysiwygs. Those tools have wysiwygs, at least some of them. And you can literally adjust elements on your page or adjust your checkout button or the color. And you can see if it causes more conversions or less.

We're gonna go through and like pull all the things that you just said and leave them all in the show notes. So everybody's like, ah, okay, I got it. I'm gonna click on all of these links. Is there like a suite if you think about a business owner. Right. Is there a suite of E commerce tools everybody should be using?

No, there's not really a suite. Like one suite. There's a lot of different products that you can end up being used. But as a small business, I don't want to drown you with tools and I can. This is actually really easy for me to do. I seriously would say focus on one thing, get it right and then expand to another thing, get it right and then do another thing. You know, like we were talking about QVC model on social media and how you can sell live and it is popular and it's growing. A lot of more mom and pops are using it over large corporations. I've dealt with the large corporations and talking you mentioned on Nordstrom's is doing it a lot of the Large corporations, it's hesitant. They're like, oh, what percentage of their sales is it going to impact who's going to do it? They're more hesitant than the small mom and pops. Right. And what I would recommend is just get a few things right and then keep expanding. Because if you try to do everything at once, you're not going to get the results you want. Nothing's going to work out.

That's so true. And it's so. Especially for mom and pops, it's just so easy to get overwhelmed.

Right?

You could go a million different directions. I mean, everyone listening could probably raise their hand if they're like, I'm scared to death of TikTok. Like, it's great, it's powerful, but it's pretty intimidating for some people. If I am trying to plan out my revenue for the year and I need to know how much traffic I need to have to make that revenue possible, do you go through modeling with businesses on how to plan my traffic for the year in order to hit certain goals, or do you have like a strategy in mind when it comes to, to mapping out the traffic you need for the year or for a certain time period?

Yeah, it's really simple for existing business. It's too hard for a brand new business. But an existing business, even if it's small, you look at how many visitors you have in Google Analytics. You look at the traffic sources, you look at your conversions, because you should all have conversion tracking or goal tracking set up and you can see which channels drive the most revenue. What's the conversion? What's your cost to generate those visitors? Even if it's like organic, you're still spending time and effort or paying people to help you out. And you look at. All right, how many visitors am I getting from each channel? What's the conversion rate? What's roi? Here's my goal for the year. How much more traffic do I need from each of these channels to make the numbers work out?

It's so, so powerful. It seems so easy. I just want to make sure everyone pauses for a second and digest that. If we're looking at those channels and we say, okay, here's what I'm getting and here's what I need to get now the question becomes, okay, how am I going to get there? Free traffic? So we could talk about content marketing, we could talk about SEO. How could I start to plan that content batch, create that content, kind of allocate what content I'm going to create for content marketing, do you have any strategies there yeah.

So what I look at is in ubersuggest, you can put in your competitor URL, it'll tell you their most popular pages in the left hand navigation. When you're doing the competitor analysis, they'll tell you their top pages and it'll show you their top pages that are driving traffic. That's where you should start. And those are the type of content pieces you should create because they're driving the most traffic in your space. There's also a keywords gap report or a keywords opportunity report where it'll show you all the keywords that you're getting traffic from and all the keywords that your competitors are getting traffic from that you're not getting traffic from. Look at those keywords and it'll show you if it has a high cpc. CPC stands for cost per click. The higher someone's willing to pay for a paid ad, that means the more likely it is to convert into a customer and go create content around all the ones that have high CPCs. Their competitors get traffic for that. You're not assuming those keywords are related to your space. That'll help you generate a lot more sales in the long run.

Okay, let me back up. So first one was content marketing and talking about looking at those pages that are generating traffic. I just want to add this tip in there. This also means going to the Discover page on Instagram and seeing what content am I being shown on Instagram on the Discover page. That's from my competitors that I can go and now mimic what, what content is going viral for others. How can I make that work for me? So similar on social media and on anyone's website. Go over now to SEO and keywords. If someone is not familiar with what should my keywords be? What is a keyword? How do I get started with keywords? Talk to me from the very beginning.

So with SEO, it's all about ranking on Google. That's the concept of SEO and ranking on Google without paying for for it through the ad section. When you search on Google, you're typing in a keyword, you know, red dress, Nike basketball shoes. Those are all keyword examples. You want to see what's popular, you want to see what drives sales. So in ubersuggest, if you put in your competitor's URL for free, it'll show you all the keywords that they're getting traffic for that drive high volume and which keywords are more expensive. Now, even though you're trying to rank in the free section above, that is a paid section. So we have data on how much people are paying for the keywords in the paid section. If they're paying a lot of money, that means that those keywords have a higher roi, means up. People who click on them tend to convert into customers. Those are the keywords you want to go after first.

All right, so if I'm going to take those keywords and I'm going to start plugging them in different places on my website, where do I start?

You would create content around that keyword, put it in your title. So the title of the article or the title of the page, the description is also meta description. Whenever you search Google, you see like a title and then a description underneath the title is a title tag. The description underneath is called meta description. So putting keywords there, putting them within your headings, you know, like how there's chapters of books, there's also subsections within your page. And then those are quote unquote called, not really titles, but they are headings. Right. And you can end up using those to break up paragraphs to make it easier for people to skim as well.

Even on the product page. I think some people overlook the opportunity for keywords on product pages or on category pages. Would you agree you should have copy on those category pages as well?

Yes. So product description reviews will automatically have keywords from other people. Even if you're not trying, category pages should have keywords as well. Those are areas that I would also recommend for E commerce. And then you can also create articles like, let's say you're selling toaster ovens, the 10 boast toaster ovens, and the link to your best selling ones, assuming you think they're better than the competitors, or if you're selling a lot of other people's, rank them in order.

Perfect. What about when it comes to SEO? I think there's a lot of confusion for new business owners, specifically around backlinks. Can you give me the skinny, the basics on backlinks and how to go about getting some for your site?

Sure. So the way Google works to rank organically, the more other sites that link to yours, the better off you are and the higher you're going to rank the other sites. The bigger the other site, the more related other site, the better the link generally. So in ubersuggest, there's a backlinks report and there's a backlinks opportunity report. You put in two or three of your competitors and you put in your own domain. It'll show you who links your competitors and who doesn't link to you. So if you see that three of your competitors all have links from the same place and you don't, that means that that website is willing to link to multiple players in your space. They have no issues on if they're your competitors or not. They're willing to link to a lot of people. You would reach out, you look at the page to see what they're linking to. Is it their product page? If so, is your product or service higher rated? Is it better? And you can then email them, be like, hey, we got better ratings. Ours does this, theirs doesn't do this. We offer free shipping, they don't. Check this out, feel free and link to us as well if you like it right. And you'll get a lot of links that way because someone's willing to or someone's already linking to multiple of your competitors, which means they're willing to link to you.

Very helpful. Very helpful. So is there any other do you think SEO must haves for 2022 for E commerce businesses that everyone should be aware of and make sure we've got set up correctly?

Fast load time really important in SEO. Another one is accept PayPal as a checkout option. We usually see 18% more revenue when you add PayPal as a payment option.

Really? I've never heard anyone put a statistic behind that. We've known that, but have never had that statistic. So that's really helpful. Thank you for that.

Usually more than 18% of your people will choose to check out with PayPal. But if you look at revenue before versus after, forget which platform they use because some people would have used credit card anyways versus PayPal we see typically around 18% more revenue. Sometimes it's like 17, 18, 19, usually around that range.

What's your gauge on other payment platforms like making sure you have Apple Pay or Shopify has Shop Pay or even things like afterpay and sezzle, those type of options. Do you see a lift there as well after pay?

Yes, a little bit. The big one we see is PayPal by far. The others have a little bit of impact, but not much.

Okay, PayPal, very good to know. So we talked about organic traffic through content strategy through SEO. Let's go back to paid strategy. And you said even if you're brand new, we should have a paid strategy. So start with me first on new business owners. What would my paid ad strategy be for a new business owner versus maybe a growing and scaling e commerce business owner?

New one's the easiest one. Let's start with that. Okay, I'm gonna give you one channel. Start with Facebook ads. You guys all know it's popular with e commerce.

Yep.

Go and look at the Facebook ad library. It'll show you all the ads your competitors are running.

Yes.

Now you have ideas of ads that you should run and go and run them and see what happens.

Do you think that's starting with just a engagement type ad? A traffic ad? Like, what is our ad type that you would really want to start out with?

Yeah. So you can test any of them out. I wouldn't optimize as much for engagement. I would optimize for sales. So you would want traffic going to your website and you want to see how many sales it drives.

Okay. What about advanced stores? What about stores that have maybe dabbled with Facebook ads? Maybe they've had an agency run ads and now they want to take it back in house and continue to grow this year. What advice would you have for them?

Go create funny ads. There's companies like Bacon and Eggs Media. Think of like the Harmon Brothers style videos.

Yes.

Squatty Potty. You guys have all seen those. But the Harmon Brothers are too expensive for most businesses. Yeah. So, like the Bacon and Eggs is the cheap version for SMBs and they still do a good job and copy a model like that. Try to have them create really creative ads based on all the data you know, and see what extra lift you can get from your YouTube and Facebook ads. And we see massive conversion lifts from that. In most cases, it's hit or miss. But when? Usually when you do a handful of them, one or two will hit. And that's why we recommend the cheap alternative for SMBs.

I love that. Actually. What I've been noticing recently as a huge trend in our industry is those boutiques who have had like viral TikToks that are just more funny. It's not about selling a product necessarily, but like the Harmon Brothers style of things. It's just entertaining. And I've seen those ads performing really well. And it's just stopping the scroll, getting the engagement, getting the click, and then introducing them to the products that have beautiful product photos and all the other things we already talked about. Perfect. How about email marketing? Talk to me about the changes in email marketing in 2022 and where to focus.

Email marketing's pretty much been the same for many years. I haven't really noticed too many changes. The only thing that you really need to focus on in email marketing is try to make it where you're following up with people. You got the Offers follow up with them on a weekly basis. Don't let your list run dry. And eventually technology will make it where you can buy through email and let them buy through email versus having go back to your checkout page. Like there's some people that are working on solutions where you can literally just click a button in your email, add the product there with your size, and you just purchase without going to someone's website.

So if someone thinks email marketing is like kind of a an old strategy, would you agree with that or do you think it's still just as relevant today because you own the list?

I think Mailchimp got bought out for $11 billion or something like that. A lot of the customers were e commerce. If it was that old of a strategy and didn't work, I don't think they'd be worth $11 billion.

Oh, touche. Point taken. How about text marketing? What's your take on text marketing in 2022? Strategy?

Text marketing works great. There's a lot of apps like Attentive out there that really help with e commerce texting. The biggest thing that we're seeing issue with texting is people aren't actually following up on a regular cadence. Right. The text rates are much higher, open and click rates, but you gotta follow up with things that are related. Neil, I notice you are. Ashley, I noticed you added this to a car. It's almost out of stock. Click here to complete your purchase. Here's a 10% off coupon. Things like that.

Do you think just like on that topic? I think a common mistake. I see. Anyway, I'm curious if you agree with this, that a lot of small businesses get so focused on acquiring new customers that they forget the value of those returning customers or they forget the value of just following up on those carts or, you know, the people that have bounced off of our website. Do you think that's a huge miss for people right now?

It is.

If you look at Amazon, they make so much money because all the repeat customers. Yeah, you gotta get the repeat customers. You're not gonna build a massive business unless you get the repeat purchases. It's not about getting someone to buy from you. It's about getting someone to buy from you. Not once, not twice, but a hundred times. Yeah, that's where the money is.

Out of all the strategies we talked about today, do you think there's one or two that are most important for that type of repeat customer?

Continually improve your product and do what? I think it was Larry Page who said this. You could be on a Multi billion dollar opportunity if you have something that someone needs to use multiple times a day. So if you're creating E commerce or you already have an E commerce store, figure out in your industry what people need that they use multiple times a day. And that's what you want to figure out how to sell or add to your commerce store. That's how you build a big business. Eventually they're going to run out, they're going to have to buy it again. That's so you know, if you look at Warren Buffett, he doesn't care to buy razor companies because of the razor he cares about because people have to keep replacing the blades.

So good. And we've seen so much change and innovation in that whole sector. That brings me to kind of my last marketing question and that is I see so many E commerce store owners today that are just focused on their own product, one revenue stream. And if we would take a page out of influencer marketing, we see we could really diversify our revenue streams if we start marketing other people's products. I know that you're an expert in affiliate marketing. Talk to me about how an E commerce store owner today could really get started in affiliate marketing and make that a whole new channel of revenue for themselves.

Yeah, sell other people's product and they'll.

Give you a cut.

Added as an upsell, added as a downsell. You don't even have to showcase it. What I like doing for small mom and pop e commerce brands is find someone who sells complimentary products. Have them sell your product to every one of their users and you sell their product and, and maybe you don't even charge commissions or affiliates and they just help you drive more sales and you help them drive more sales. It's a win win situ situation. We find that to do extremely well. Or you can go to affiliate marketing and just add another 10 products. Like let's say if you sell hair extensions, we'll also add in wigs and hair dryers and conditioners and shampoos and.

I don't know what other stuff people.

Do with their hair. I feel like you're an expert on hair extensions. Neil, what's happening here?

That's right.

It's a massive market.

But when you do the affiliate play and there's a lot of affiliate networks out there that you can check out like you can just type in like you know, hair product affiliate programs or, and you can find tons and they start adding them to your website.

You know, it's, it's not even just the website but I also think it's social media. Like if I'm a boutique owner, I have a huge Instagram following. Yes, I've got my website, I can drive traffic there, but I can go put on my makeup in the morning, do a makeup tutorial while I'm also talking about the clothes I'm wearing, but share my Amazon links to everything else. Besides Amazon affiliate marketing, are there other big sites you would recommend someone who's just getting started to check out to look for products that they could be.

Marketing on social media besides Amazon? I would just start googling whatever affiliate products that you're thinking about selling, like makeup affiliate programs. And you can find tons and tons of programs out there. But yes, you should do it on social media. You should on your website, you should do it on your blogs, you should be doing it when you're going live. And if you do that and you have the link to like the link trees, I'm assuming most people here are familiar with link trees. So that way you can change the links within your social bios or even your swipe ups when you're doing like your stories on Instagram. It's all great ways to generate more sales.

Very helpful. Neil, we have went down a ton of rabbit holes today. Thank you for this. I always ask on the podcast one final question and man, watching your journey unfold and the way that you've reached people all over the world, you've built and sold numerous companies, I'm just curious, at the end of the road for you, when you look back at the life that you lived and the legacy that you left, what's the thing that you want people to remember about you the most?

Nothing. I don't care for them to remember and I don't mean this in a bad way. I want them to remember whatever is important to them.

Okay.

And I want, I'm hoping that I can help them achieve more traffic, more success, but I don't want them to remember me for it. I want them to just enjoy their life and be more successful and hopefully it helps them accomplish their dreams. But for me, it's just like if I help someone double up their mom and pop business. Yeah, I don't care for the appreciation. I just hope that they live a better life in their family and their kids and they can employ more people and it helps everyone else. To me that makes me happy. The notoriety or remembering or being well known, don't really care for that. I just want people to accomplish their dreams and goals and if I can help them do it I don't care for the pat on the back. I'm just happy to see them succeed.

I love that. Incredibly humble. Incredibly well stated. Neil. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Thank you for having me.

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