Leaning Into The Power of Traditional Media

I think we can all collectively raise our hand and say sometimes traditional social media can be so exhausting to try to grow your brand and grow your business's reach. And that's why today's episode I am so excited to share with you because we're going to talk about the power of traditional media and what happens when you happen to land on Oprah's Favorite Things. You guys, today we are talking to the owners, Elizabeth and Karina of Top It Off Accessories. Many of you know Elizabeth and Karina from visiting with them in Atlanta in many showrooms in Atlanta Mart. They've been a part of the Boutique Hub and they sell some really amazing accessories to thousands of boutiques around the country. Today we're going to walk through their brand story. Being in business 20 years, which is pretty awesome, I must say, how they've grown, how they've sourced products, how they've leveraged cash flow and their relationship with bankers to do so. But above all else, this pretty cool spotlight that they have on their year, getting featured on Oprah's Favorite Things and what they've learned from that journey and the power of traditional marketing methods, but also how stores can leverage that opportunity themselves. And what does it really mean to have a great powerful relationship between the brand and the boutique because there is so much that we can learn and grow from one another. You guys, I'm so excited about this episode. I know you're gonna love getting to hear this story. So get ready to meet my friends Elizabeth and Karina, the owners and founders of Top It Off Accessories. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of actually works. From mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it, how do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. All right, guys, welcome back to the podcast. Elizabeth and Karina, I'm so happy to have you both with me today. Thanks for being on the show.

Hi, Ashley.

Great to be here. I love your guys story. You guys have so much history and knowledge in this industry. Has it been 20 years you guys have been a part of boutique industry, retail and wholesale? I'm sure there's so many things we're gonna pin lots of notes today from your guys experience.

Yes, it's 20 years. You know, it's something to be proud of. That's for sure.

It absolutely is. I would love to know you guys. Take me back to the beginning. How, first of all, how did the two of you meet and how did you decide to go into business together? Take me back to your origin story.

So, Elizabeth, I'll just jump in. We're going to do some tag teaming here. So Elizabeth and I both met at a job that we were working at in Cambridge, Massachusetts. It was a.com a long time ago, and we got to be friendly and started talking about things that we like to do and creative juices flowing and realized that we both were entrepreneurs. And that was pretty fun to talk about because, you know, one entrepreneur loves talking to another entrepreneur. And we said, hey, well, why don't we put our things together and go try to sell them? And at that point in time, we didn't know exactly what that meant, but we saw some craft fairs and we both liked going to craft fairs. And I'd sold at some craft fairs in the past and we packed up all of our things, went to Cape Cod, sold at a craft fair, and then quickly realized that's not what we want to do. Not at all. I think we both like going to craft fairs more than working a craft fair. So that really steered us in the direction of, well, why don't we try to sell to other people? And again, that was something we didn't know much about. In fact, we really knew not a whole lot about it. I mean, we knew how much we needed to charge based on how much it cost to make what we were making. And we put, I think a one or two page piece of paper together and decided to go to a store in walking distance from where our 9 to 5 job was. And on our lunch break, sold $1,000 to our very first boutique. And it was the best day ever. And then we started doing some pretty quick math in our head on the walk back and went, wow, if we really did this, imagine what we could do. But you know, that takes a lot of time to get there. So we worked full time, 80 plus hours a week between our regular job and the job we really wanted for years. I would say it was at least two years and got to the point where we were able to have enough inventory and sales to say thank you so much for this wonderful job that we've had where we met each other, but we're quitting onto the next thing, and then rest is somewhat history. But that's the intro. And that story is really special to both of us because, you know, everyone's got a different way how they found their path. But that one, that's a fun one, I think.

That is a fun one. Elizabeth, tell me about what did your product mix look like at that point? Like when you very first went to that store, right, and you sold a thousand dollars worth, what were you selling then and how quickly did you expand what else you were offering at that point?

Sure. So Karina was making ribbon belts, and that was when ribbon belts were super popular and everyone needed a ribbon belt and we had some great designs and, and that was definitely a huge hit. I had a lot of friends who were having kids and I was doing hand painted things for kids. And so we tried to sell that as well with the ribbon belts. And basically the stores looked at us and they said, yeah, way too expensive for what our customers are going to want to pay. So we quickly pivoted just to ribbon belts. And then Karina had an idea to put some ribbon also on bags. And we found a factory in Maine that used to make the boat bags for L.L. bean. And they had gone off in their own direction. And so we had all these beautiful bags made. We loved them and we started showing people and they loved them too. And we went to America's Mart in Atlanta in July of 2004 and everyone said, oh my God, we love these bags and we need to be able to retail them for your wholesale price. So as luck would have it, we went to accessories of the show. We were a featured boutique or special vendor. I can't remember. Do you remember what it was called, Karina?

I think it was in the boutique section.

Yeah, we were in the boutique section. That's right. So we're in the boutique section. And as luck would have it, the woman next to us also had a product line that she was just launching, but her daytime job was with a sourcing company. So we started working them and they were out of Canada, so they had a little more flexibility in giving us a break on some minimum order quantities and just actually having a conversation with us. And so we were quickly able to take the feedback that we had for what people liked in the bags that we were currently offering and then figuring out, okay, well, how do we start sourcing offshore?

Yeah, that I feel like a lot of young product based businesses. That's a scary first step. It can be an intimidating first step and it's easy to get burnt. Right. Like, it's definitely an industry of warm leads or. Or a warm handoff.

Right.

A warm introduction, just like you experienced. If you could Go back and tell someone about that experience and, and maybe some do's and don'ts that you learned from that first step into sourcing and product development. What would those be?

One in particular is Moqs. You know, everybody wants you to buy 2,000, 3,000, oh gosh, even more. And I think we didn't know that you could push back. We had no idea, we knew nothing. We did not have experience at all in the terminology and what was expected and everything. And I think the biggest lesson that we've learned, at least in that, is negotiation. Everything is up for negotiation. Whatever is put in front of you from whoever you talk to, whenever you talk to them, that if they say 500, you can say 200 and you might need a 250. If they say 3000, say 1500 and you know, whatever it might be, and that that's pretty important because you know, your money is tied up in inventory and you want to diversify as much as possible. For certain businesses, that's really important. And certainly, you know, the costs that you're given, you can push back, you can leverage with another company. You can get two quotes from two similar companies and play it off of each other. I mean, it's all about negotiation and business. And a lot of people that start in this world are creative minds and they don't necessarily have the business sense. And I think you have to have both. You have to pull it out of you some way, some shape or form, and know that, you know, you have to put that business hat on too.

Yeah, that is such good advice. Also, at that time, like when you are doing those negotiations, right, and you're getting your first couple of products developed, there had to be a moment when you were like, we're onto something. These stores really like what we have to offer. We need to expand, we need to order more. There's also a cash flow issue. How do I leverage and put this cash in this investment? Right. And make sure I'm going to be able to sell what I've actually ordered? How did you guys manage that conversation and make sure that you were managing cash flow as you are quickly growing and adding your product line?

I think one of the things that we did really right from the start was we got a line of credit. It was very easy in 2003 and 2004 and onward for the next couple of years to get lines of credit. But we definitely that helped us a lot to invest in our inventory. And then we had a really strong focus on paying it right down. As soon as we could. So we kind of saw it really as a line of credit. We finance our inventory, we pay it back down. We finance, finance our inventory, we pay it back down. And at different points in time in the business, we've had to go for increases because we've had major growth in the business. And usually you know that you need to go to a bank with a really solid track record that shows that you are paying it, you know, taking it up, paying it down. So that was, that's been really critical in our ability to, to add new product and, and really experience a lot of growth over the years.

Yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up. And just that point of having a really solid track record and bringing that to a bank and maintaining that relationship. Because just a note for a lot of younger entrepreneurs who might be listening, it is really easy for people today to go get a Shopify loan or a PayPal loan or whatever, but then you lack the relationship with the true banking establishment that when you fall into times like a global pand and there's, you know, PPP money and the edil loan, all of that, and you have no track record and banking history and therefore no relationship with a banker, you're out. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because I think everyone needs to learn that lesson and hopefully not the hard way, just how important it is to have a good banker on your team.

And I would even add to that a good banker who's a local banker because we, at the beginning we went out with the, we got loans from some of the big banks and we just never really had a relationship with that banker. As opposed to now. In the last, for the last 10 years we've been working with local banks in the Boston area where I'm based and those like when we came to getting access to ppp, like we knew the guy and he knew us and he knew our business and he, he really helped us out to fast track us to get to where we needed to be so we could keep all of our employees employed.

Absolutely.

Very important.

Now let's talk about some more of the growth that you've had. Thinking about this cycle recently. You guys have had some pretty amazing press. I won't spoil it. I want to have you guys tell me the story about it. But I would say it's a pretty coveted experience that you've just had that a lot of product based businesses would kill for. So tell me about that press and how you landed that spot.

Well, we just landed the influence of the greatest Influencer, I would say, in the retail space. And that's Oprah and Oprah's favorite things for the holidays. So that has been an absolute thrill. And, you know, a lot of it's luck, right? And persistence and just doing all of the things that we're doing. Oh, good. Karina, you have one.

While you're talking. Yeah.

So Oprah picked our Dawn Glove. Dawn the Glove was named after one of the women who works with us in Alexandria, Virginia, and she's absolutely fabulous. And Oprah found these gloves to be fabulous, too. So super soft and really fun plaids, a really soft color palette. And at a price point, that was just fantastic. So we found out in August, they saw us in July at the Atlanta Gift Show. We sent product to them, which got lost in their mailroom. And then they said, oh, it's really too bad you didn't send those gloves. And I said, well, what do you mean? Because I personally hustled to make the UPS last pickup. And so there they are. And, yeah, so we. They and I tracked them, and the next morning, they had arrived. Good reminder to everyone, even if, you know they arrived, you should probably tell the people who are expecting them that they did arrive, because I didn't think about doing that. And they called us on Monday morning and said, geez, you should have sent them. And we did. We said we did. They found them. And three weeks later, we found out that they had chosen the Don gloves. So we spent the next two months hustling to do all of the things that you need to do to prepare, bring in more inventory, set up websites, get everything really running smoothly, and think about all the marketing collateral that we wanted to share with all of our stores that carry our line so that they could take advantage of all of the hubbub that comes from that. Oprah's favorite things. And yeah, I mean, the. The order started rolling in. We were so excited. And what was also really exciting is Oprah's team gave us a press release that we could share. And so we shared that with a lot of local media. And in Boston, good thing there was nothing happening that day, because they were all about West Roxbury's Top it off is an Oprah's favorite thing. And they started digging some more. And then they found out, oh, well, like there are eight other companies or seven other in Massachusetts that are also on this list. And the media started buzzing, and it was incredible just to really. I think we all talk about social media and the power of social media. And then what was really evident to us was, wow, traditional media has such incredible power. And, you know, sure, it was on their website, but every time these. These stories aired, we just saw a spike and a spike and a spike. And so that was really exciting to just experience. And we sold out of everything we had. We had another order that was landing just a couple days later. We've sold through that. We're waiting for the next one. I mean, we're trying to hustle, so and make sure that we can, you know, really get, I guess, like, turn up the light on our brand and let more people know who we are, what we do, and what we're all about. And that's really about having easy styles that are truly effortless, versatile, and at a price point that she loves. And that's what Karina and I have always been about, just really easy styles. And that's something that, you know, like, she's delighted when she sees the price.

I love that. I have absolute goosebumps thinking about that. You guys, number one, I want to get lost in Oprah's mailroom because I can only imagine what else is in there.

Exactly.

That's so cool. So tell me more, because I. I think your point is really well received on the power of real media. And I was just reading through some posts in the boutique hub the other day, and so many women were talking about, I'm burnt out on social media. I'm burned out on this form of marketing, and, and it's a necessary evil. But I think what you guys have experienced is such a good example of, you know, if I really go the PR route, right? And the collaboration influencer route and, and sharing press like Pink Friday is another good example of working with media and that drives so much natural organic traffic and SEO value. When you got the news, did they give you like a checklist, an idea list? You better cya before things fall apart because you're gonna have so much attention on you list. Or how did they help you walk through this process of preparing for what was next?

So the Oprah team does give you a list of things that you should be thinking through and, and some requirements that they have so they start to help you think about it. At the same time, they don't want to give you numbers of what you could sell. So there's a lot of guessing there. And we really wish that we would have anticipated that people would have bought so many more gloves because we definitely would have brought in more inventory. It was beyond our wildest expectations, I would say. And in fact, on the morning of November 1st, I work out every Tuesday morning. It was a Tuesday. And I told the woman I work out with, I'm really nervous, like, what if we don't sell anything? And. And then, you know, by the end of the day we're like, oh my gosh, we have sold everything. We have, so. And thank God we have more coming in the other thing, Oprah makes you sign a non disclosure agreement and I should say Oprah daily, so you can't really talk to other people about it. But we did have this kind of serendipitous occasion that happened at a trade show right before. And we were sitting with two guys who own a puzzle company who were fe five years ago and they said, tell us. We said, tell us more. And without anyone saying what was really happening, they really, I guess they really kind of prepared us a little bit more, although we didn't have a lot of time to react. But just the power that Oprah brings and the importance of it and we really think of this as kind of another springboard for our business going forward. Not just like what happened in the last two weeks is great, but what's going to happen in the next five years is what's really exciting. And so how do we think about capitalizing on this new calling card that we have?

Yeah. Hey, real quick, are you already a member of the Boutique Hub? If you are, you know, I see you. I'm so pumped that you can join us each and every day to learn how to grow and optimize your business and to make a ton of friends along the way. But if you're not yet a member of the Hub, inside of the Hub, which is core to everything we do, we focus on three main parts of life and business. Number one, community. Because you know, this is a lonely road. And each and every day in the hub, we have 14 niche Facebook groups based on your business type and your business size so you can get the help and meet others that are at the same stage of business that you are for daily connection tips and inspiration inside of our groups. The second piece that's so important to us at the Hub is education. Inside of the Hub, you have access to live guest experts every week, twice a week, plus our monthly training bundles, content, calendars, our weekly social media engagement ideas and graphics, our app so you can learn on the go and all of the live and in person training that we also do here at the Hub. Education is absolutely key. From a brand new business owner to a multi, multi business owner, multimillion dollar business Owner. There's training for each level inside the hub. And finally, wholesale is a huge piece of what we do. With nearly a thousand vetted and trusted wholesale brands inside of the hub. And on hubventory.com, our brand new wholesale marketplace, we want to make sure that you're not just buying for your boutique, but you're investing. And you're investing with trusted partners with awesome products. You can't wait to share with your audience. So please join us now. If you aren't already a member@the boutiquehub.com join and I'll see you inside the community. When you think about the stores that carry your products, talk to me about how they can best leverage this or how you, in your partnership with the stores that you work with, how do you prepare them to best leverage Oprah's favorite things for their own experience as well?

Yeah, so we thought about that. We thought about almost everything you could. So we had a very clear plan as what we were going to do, you know, 9:31, Tuesday morning after it was announced. So we informed all of our stores via email. We texted each one of our sales reps that services these boutiques an image and a notice that they could share with their customers. We changed all of our voicemails. We started putting stickers on all of our catalogs. We had one pagers go out immediately in any order that was shipping. I mean, we could keep going on and on and on. So it's a, it's a serious rollout of communication, not just social media. Sure, Facebook, Instagram, all that. But you know, boutique owners range from very young people starting out teenagers to on up. Are core boutique customers slightly more mature? And so, you know, social media may not be the first place that they go in the morning compared to someone who might be in their 20s or 30s. So email, phone calls, talking with their rep was really key in spreading that word. And we're also creating one pagers for them to post in their store when the product is featured. Little table tents, you know, you know, actual stuff, not digital, that they can show in their store and talk about it. And as Elizabeth mentioned before, you know, the relationship we have with the majority of our customers, they could not be prouder of us. And they're happy to talk about it. And that's what's pretty great about it, you know, is that we're all happy. It's not just us. And sure, they're happy because they've got the product that they can say was featured by Oprah. You know, so It's a win, win all around. But we went through a big checklist of our own to make sure that these boutique owners were well prepared to handle the volume they're going to get, just like we were.

I love that. Take a step back just to talk about your relationship with your boutique owners as a whole. I think there's so much conversation in our industry today about what makes a successful relationship and partnership between a brand and a boutique that carries that brand. I'm sure you've got many, both good and bad experiences you could probably draw from, right? Every, every brand does. But what do you think makes the best long term relationship between the two?

So one of the things that we always say is our best ideas have come from our customers and it really is the boutique owners. They have, they have their ear, their feet on the street, they're talking to the customer, they know what she needs, what she doesn't see, what she'd like to see. So that's been extremely valuable to us as a business to be able to offer the products that she's really looking for and that are going to be really successful for our boutique customers. We also think it's a real partnership. So it is. The more information and we're real. I know Ashley, you always are talking about data and information and really using your numbers and the more information that we have, the better and looking at our data, the better we off we are as a business and especially the better off we are enabled to provide the product at the right time. So we always encourage our stores to book out their orders. Don't just order three this week and call us back next week and order three more. But really think about and plan what you need. Book out those orders for future ship dates. Maybe you need it for a special for an open house or maybe you have a big event that's going on in your town and you know you're going to need to restock that information really helps us ensure that we have what people want, when they want it. And so that partnership is really, is really key not only from, you know, getting the great new ideas, but also for the existing product, keeping people in stock that make makes everyone successful.

Yeah, I think that's a little bit lost right now, if I'm being honest in our industry. I think our industry's gotten boutique owners as a whole, they're buying too, too fast, like too close to need and not doing a great job really thinking ahead and planning for the future. So I feel like that's something I'm like Our team really is trying to educate on the value of exactly what you're saying because you're right, you're way better off and it's better for the brand. You can be more successful together when you are more proactive. Just like that. Right.

The other thing is that it just takes the stress out of it. Right. Because there are those stressful conversations when someone calls and they say, God, I need it for Friday. And we just can't meet that because. And you know, we could try everything that we could possibly do, but. And then people end up frustrated and so that planning really is helpful to everyone.

Yeah.

You know, we were just talking about this with our kids the other day, Eric and I. I don't even remember what the situation was, but what is the quote? Your lack of planning does not equate my emergency. And. And we've gotten that way a little bit as a society and then we're pretty quick to be keyboard jockeys about it. And that just isn't a win win for anybody. So I think that's a really well noted point.

You all talk with my kids about that at dinner tonight.

It.

They all can learn it a few times.

Yeah.

Something else you guys have done really well is just how you've grown your wholesale reach. And I know again, for those of you who are listening, who are maybe a newer product based business going to market, yes, that's step number one. But you guys are beyond that. You work with some great rep groups, some great showrooms and agencies. Tell me more about that experience and how maybe you vetted who you wanted to work with along the way and how you landed in the right place at the right markets.

Yeah, it's. It's a slippery slope. That's what we can say for sure. Because you really just don't know. You know, I mean, so many things about this business. If you had a, you know, what is that the crystal ball? We keep saying that if we had a crystal ball, well, life would be easy. And it worked. You know, we first were approached by people if we go way back to when we were just starting, you know, they'd see people, these reps go to the shows and they'd see that you're new and they'd come up to you and they'd say, we'd love to rep you. Well, of course you're thrilled. You're absolutely thrilled. And you don't know what to say or ask or, you know, then you start learning, well, how many lines do you have? And is there anything similar to us and who are some of the stores you sell to? And over time, you start realizing that you want to be represented by a salesperson who has similar product in terms of price point or feel or, you know, the vibe that a store would have. You know, I don't necessarily think we want to have, you know, a rep selling thumbtacks. You know, we want them to sell jewelry. We want them to sell a whole package, soaps. And we, you know, we are the accessory arm to them. So that took a while to figure out. And then after doing lots and lots of shows, oh, my gosh. Elizabeth and I, I think we were gone for like a month in the beginning, before we had kids. And that was, you know, a learning experience. We. We did la. We did everything everyone told us to do. And it took a while, but we figured out where we really needed to be was Atlanta and take a lot of those dollars that we were spreading out all over and condense it and. And refine it into an area that really works for us, as well as road reps that aren't part of any showroom whatsoever. Absolutely critical to growing the business. And we're very careful about who and what and where those people are. You do not need national coverage to be successful. You know, you just have to be successful in the areas that you do well in and do better and find the right people. And guess what? It's like a relationship. Sometimes you break up. A lot of the time you break up. You know, we've had a lot of breakups, but we also have had some really great, solid relationships and dated for a really long time. People, I think the, you know, one of our reps in particular in Boston, Elizabeth, you can talk a little bit about Connie. I mean, she's just amazing. You know, we've been working with her.

For about 12 years, and she's an independent. She was part of a group, and then that group dissolved. And she has these amazing relationships, relationships with her customers. And so I think at the end of the day, the success of the rep really does boil down to their relationships with their customers. And that ultimately comes back to us as well. She is out there. She hustles. She let all of her customers know that we were an Oprah's favorite thing. Those customers sent pictures of their displays in front of their stores that had, you know, Oprah's favorite things printed out. And I just. I think it all boils down to that relationship and their presence on the road. And that's. And, you know, not that they have to totally be on the road, but they definitely need to be in touch and understand the boutique's business and who their customer is.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think there's so much power in that. And even though the wholesale industry is changing so much today with online marketplaces and that opportunity and I mean, we have our own.

Right.

But that will never replace that in person, experience, or relationship. I just think that's not going away anytime soon.

Right. It's a. It's a vehicle. It's another avenue that we all, you know, we have to be all a part of and it makes it easier. But yeah, the relationships are. They're. They're key.

Absolutely. Something else I wanted to ask you guys about. So you've got these great wholesale products, right? And you also are able to sell some retail. How have you managed the relationship to not compete with your customers on a retail level? And where do you go with. With that product that really needs to get moved, that maybe isn't going into someone else's store, but you need to move the product. Tell me about that process in your business.

Well, Elizabeth, do you want to talk a little bit about the website and then I can talk about the outlet side of the store?

Sure. So we do have a website. And we've always, since day one, we had a website because we went to New York and. And we would talk with the press and they said, you need a website. We need to be able to send our national readership somewhere. So we've always kind of taken that approach with a big focus on we are not trying to compete with our bread and butter wholesale business and the boutiques that carry us. So that has been something. We try to empower all our wholesale accounts with photos and other marketing collateral that they can use to make it really easy for them to sell online in social and whatever channels they're using. But of course, we do have product at the end of every season or sometimes at the beginning of the season, we say, Karina and I look at each other and we say, oh, God, that's a dog. Or, you know, we have a little dribs and drabs at the end. And one of the first thing we do is we make it available to our wholesale customers. Because someone, something that didn't work, it might just have gotten lost in the shuffle. And it can be a hot selling item for someone. So we try to create deals, and we always have margin makers that we make available to our stores so that if they're thinking about Black Friday, if they're thinking about a sidewalk sale. If they just are thinking about building margin for themselves, that is something that we always offer. And then Karina can talk to our stores as well.

Yeah. So, you know, I think I was mentioning this slightly a bit earlier about how, you know, our boutique business is Cordura business. That is what we focus on. And we understand the struggle that they have when they buy something and put it in their store and then they can go down the street and see the same or very similar thing from the same vendor in TJ Maxx and Marshalls and how devastating that is to them. So early on we decided, well, how are we going to, to solve our overstock problem? And we started with one small little outlet here in Alexandria, Virginia, which is where I'm at. And we were able to move product so that we could have more money to invest in new inventory for our boutique customers. And that worked well. And we've decided to do that again in Rehoboth, Delaware and Rehoboth Beach. And it doesn't impact our wholesalers because we, we put them in places where the whole, I'm sorry, the boutique owners where they are not. And it has been a win, win, I think for us because if we could not move this product, we would not be here. And I think that's important for, you know, every boutique, every wholesaler has something they need to put on sale and how they manage it is critical to their business. And we've done it in a way that's worked. And again, it's always available. It's always available to our wholesaler. It's on our wholesale site, it's with all of our reps have the information. It's nothing where we're not sharing. But we also have to move things ourselves. So that's been a pretty big decision we made a while back to do that and open up the locations for people to buy locally around us.

Yeah, that's really important I think for a boutique owner to know the life cycle of your business or any wholesale business. This because at the end of the day, like you said, it's a partnership. And when you're strong, you can be stronger with them, right? And when they're strong, yes, you can be stronger as well. You both mentioned. So you're, you're in two different locations and you have been, you've been remote before. Being remote was cool, right? Like I was country before country was cool. Tell me about that working relationship, how you guys have built your business in this way. And also you guys, partnerships are not easy, right? Like, I think everyone in the country would be like, it's not easy. So what is your guys's secret sauce of how you've made it work this long and as successful as you guys have made it?

Well, I'll take a first step. I'll take a first step. You know, you have to be able to, you know, communicate. I mean, if you can't talk, if you can't share your feelings, your thoughts and compromise and I mean, all those things that are like a marriage. I mean, Elizabeth and I are married, but, like, true. And I think that's key. I mean, so many partnerships. I mean, we have talked to so many people at shows that dissolve because they're not communicating with each other, or, you know, maybe they just pick someone that wasn't honest or, you know, all those. All those key characteristics that make a good friendship, a marriage, a business partnership, they're all the same. And I think that's what. But we both have. And that's. And we both have different strengths. I mean, there is no way I could do this on my own, nor would I want to. Like, that's the reality, you know, and. Yeah. 20 years.

20 years. What's the 20th anniversary little symbol. I'll have to get it for you, Karina.

Okay, Oprah.

Gloves.

That's it.

And I think the first thing that came to my mind was communication, just like Karina said. And I think it's that and coming to the conversation with an open mind. And I think Karina and I are really good about that because we definitely come into conversations where we're on opposite sides of the approach. And, you know, I often hear both of us saying, oh, okay, yeah, hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Oh, right, okay. And just kind of like bouncing it back and forth to kind to get to that, you know, what's the path forward? And we're constantly in a state of pivoting. There's things that come up all the time that we just never thought about, or we think, wow, this is a great opportunity. How do we go against it? And let's run with it. And kind of having that hashing out the idea is really. It's been secret to our success.

I love that. That's so good. Such good advice, guys. All right, you guys, it's been 20 years. It's been paper. It's been 20 years. And I want to ask you this question in another 10, in another 20. And you guys are together with your families in the same location on a front porch, and you're Talking to your kids and your grandkids and your friends about the businesses you created, about Oprah's Favorite Things 20 years ago, and just about the life that you guys have lived. What is the thing you guys both want your friends and family to remember the most about who you were and this journey that you've been on.

So I would say that I would like people to think that I embraced life and that I helped the people around me to embrace their lives as well, whether that be my children, whether that be the women who work with us, whether that be my friends or the extended community. I think that giving back peace is really important. And I personally love what I do every day, and I can't imagine not loving what I do. And I like to be able to encourage people to have that same experience.

I love that.

Okay, that's a. It's a big question.

It is.

It's the question.

Right?

I would say, you know, I try really hard to be a good friend to everyone I'm around. And. And to be honest, I think honest and being fair is, you know, what's helped us get to where we are and. And trying to teach my kids that. And just. And it's hard. It's not always easy. So I'd love for people to say, gosh, she was a good friend, and she was, you know, really, really fair and honest.

So very good.

That'd be great.

I love that. Well, both of you, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your story and. And all the lessons that have come along the way. There's been many, and I know many. We didn't get to one last thing. So for any boutiques that are listening, obviously you guys have been a part of the Boutique Hub, and with this cool thing happening with Oprah's favorite things, you guys have a gift for our boutique community that's listening today. So did you want to mention where boutique owners can find you all?

Yes. So you can find us on the Boutique Hub. We are new to Hubventory, am I saying it correctly? And we're excited to be there. You mention Boutique Hub, you'll get free shipping on your orders in December and January. And we also. We have a website as well. You can call us anytime, text us. We love to work with Boutique Hub members, and we look forward to shipping out those orders.

I love that you guys are in Atlanta as well. Do you want to mention where any of our members can come find you in Atlanta?

Yeah. We are in a showroom in Building 3, an apparel showroom that's open every day. So if you're visiting Atlanta and doing some cash and carry, we are on the cash and carry floor, which is a very popular floor, if anyone knows about it. Off the escalator, you come right on up and you turn and we're on the seventh floor in a showroom called Total Accessories. And we are right in front. It's a great group. There's other brands in there that I know boutique numbers by, and we'd love to see you. So we're there and then we're in building three on the 18th floor. So you start all the way. Oh, sorry. No, building three. Oh, sorry. The first one's building two. Yes. Second one is building three, 18th floor, Dara and Company. And then you work your way down. So start on the 18th floor, do your shopping there and work.

Everyone who's been to Atlanta feels your pain right now. They're like, what building am I in?

Where am I?

We totally. I 100% get what you're saying.

I love that.

Need a tour guide.

You do need a tour guide. Well, both of you, thank you so much. Elizabeth, Karina, it's been a pleasure to get to hear your journey today. Congratulations on everything and on where the next 20 years may take you both. Thanks for being on the show today.

Thanks so much, Ashley.

Hey.

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.

Sam.