Dr Greg Bahnsen - Economic Ethics: Debt and Usury (Part 7)

Well, it seems like we've been talking about money all summer long, doesn't it? We've been on the subject of economic ethics from the beginning of July, and we come now close to the beginning of the month of September. It would appear we only have two more topics to cover after this morning next week, not only because it's appropriate given the time of year, but I think it's appropriate. In our series. We're going to be talking about labor and leisure, and I'd like to conclude our series eventually by talking to you about the many varieties of theft of which the people of our country, and, sadly enough, the people of our congregation are guilty. And so we'll have just a couple more discussions of money and economics. I don't want this to go to waste. I hope this summer hasn't been a timeout for you. Just thinking. Well, you know, we're not really thinking through spiritual things. No. We're thinking about things that are deeply spiritual. They affect the way we live our lives and the physical domain and the way we use our money and gifts and those sorts of things, to be sure. But I believe that those matters are a genuine reflection of the state of our heart. And so I don't at all apologize to you for the fact that we've gone on and on about money. It is important in itself and important for what it tells us about ourselves. This morning we're going to talk about debt and usury, a very crucial subject and one that is, I think, challenging our church, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, in a way which it hasn't in the past. And I'd like to get into the subject by having you turn in your Bibles to Luke the fourth chapter. I know that you have a different passage listed in the bulletin, but this morning let's look at Luke 4, 1721. And in the midst of my exhortation we'll come to Leviticus, Luke 4 at the 17th verse.

Reading to verse. 21.

Hear now the word of God. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And he opened the book and found the place where it was written. The Spirit of the Lord is upon.

Me, because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor.

He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, today, hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears? And thus far the reading of God's word. Jesus came to proclaim release to the captives, to declare the acceptable year of the Lord, the year of freedom, the year of release from slavery of all sorts, including slavery to debt. And Jesus said that that acceptable jubilee year was being fulfilled that very day in the hearing of those to whom he preached. And yet to those whom I preach, I have to tell you that we have become a nation of economic slaves. We do not enjoy the acceptable year of the Lord in our country. We do not enjoy the freedom which the Gospel and the law of God grant to us because we are in fact, enslaved to our own desires. Facts about debt and usury in our country today are really quite appalling.

You know that they are appalling when.

You have a situation arise and a secular magazine, a news magazine like Time magazine itself, has a feature article warning our nation of the grave economic danger we are in because of the exorbitant amount of debt that our families and individuals have contracted. Economic and social forecasters have warned that it could very well be that our nation is going to sink into an ocean of debt and usury. R.E. mcMaster Jr says that mounting debt and compounding interest is a time bomb in our country that is going to decimate the nation's foundations, its social order. In fact, it's becoming an insurmountable problem which everything I've read on the subject from the secular standpoint says we have no answer for. Robert Record writes, we have legalized a debt money system that has transferred the wealth of the nations into the hands of the bankers who hold the mortgages on our property. Of course, the debt situation is far more than mortgage on property. I mean, commercial debt debt for the sake of buying something that you want to use for hi FIS and color TVs and for new cars and for any number of things which we think are so important to our lifestyle. Consumer debt has risen.

In fact, it doubled from 1960 to 1970. From.

From 1970 to 1980.

It shot off into space even faster than that.

And it's gotten to the point where even the major credit card holders, the people who back up the credit system, are doing what they can to put some kind of brakes on the system. We are living in a situation of runaway debt, compounding interest.

The total debt in the year 1981.

For instance, in this country, was 5.5 trillion. In 1983, it's above 6 trillion. That's all debt, government debt, corporate debt, personal debt. And of that, about 850 billion is owed by Iron Curtain countries and third world countries to US banks, which is to say our government is holding the bag when it comes to that. And Ron Paul, who's a representative from Texas, adds that that figure that I've just given you doesn't even include the contingent liabilities of the U.S. government. And when he figures them, he says that if we were to look at the total debt in our country, government, personal, etc. Including those contingent liabilities, the commitments we've made, we owe about $11 trillion. Somebody owes somebody else $11 trillion. Just within this country, Interest on debt in 1981 was $879 billion. We're talking about major financial income here. Billions and billions. $879 billion just on the interest for the debt. That turns out to be about 35% of the nation's total personal income. Over a third of our personal income. It's equal to 30% of the gross national product. Just interest on debts was 4 times total total corporate profits earned during 1981 and 200 billion more than the federal budget. More than the federal budget. Begin to get some feeling for the depth of the problem, the breadth of the problem, how staggering these figures are. We're a people who have enslaved themselves. We have fueled the nation's economy, we've spurred it with growth, but of course it's been done with inflated dollars. And so what we're facing, if you remember last week's exhortation with our Federal Reserve note situation with nothing of any true value, only a politician's word backing up our money and the large amount of debt that we have in this country is we're facing a grave economic crisis. And undoubtedly it seems to me, we're going to have a remonetarized situation in the future and major renunciation of debt by individuals and corporations, if not nations. We are simply a nation of economic slaves. We have become enslaved to those who lend to us. Jesus tells us, however, that the gospel age is an age of jubilee freedom. It's an age in which slaves are set free from everything that bruises them. It's an age in which men who are captured by their own desires, by their irresponsibility, people who are enslaved to other masters are going to enjoy freedom. The gospel brings freedom from the kind of slavery we've been talking about this morning. And that's what I want to explain to you as we go through the Word of God. First of all, when we talk about the subject of debt, it would be very important for us to understand a feature about biblical ethics which is rarely comprehended by people who talk about this subject and many others as well. It's so easy for us to think of Christian ethics as a matter of simple right and wrong, yes and no, black and white. And of course, I believe in moral absolutes. And so in that sense, I believe there are morally white and morally black things, and they have to be clearly distinguished. However, not everything that the word of God tells us transfers into a specific charge. Yes or no for our lives. Let me give you an illustration. In Romans 12:18, Paul, in the midst of a number of ethical exhortations to God's people, says, if it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men. Now, what kind of moral exhortation is that?

Is Paul commanding us to be at.

Peace with all men or not? Is it yes or is it no? On this subject? You see, it's not a simple issue. What Paul is doing is he's laying out an ideal. He says, this is your, if I can use some computer ease with you this morning, your default setting. In the absence of other factors coming in so that you change the setting in the absence of other things that.

Would alter your course.

He says, be at peace with all men. That's something you should be striving for. And so as much as it depends on you, you should be at peace. And yet the Gospel also tells us that Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword. Jesus came to tear apart families. Think about the lack of peace that's there when people follow Jesus and are consistent in their discipleship, and other members of the family can't tolerate that. Jesus says, we are not to be at peace with God's enemies. We are to hate those who hate the Lord. We are to oppose their schemes and plans. We are to be set against them. Jesus says we are to confront an erring brother. We are supposed to take to the magistrate those who are guilty of criminal offense. We are going to do things which irritate people. We are going to say things by the preaching of the Gospel which bring persecution upon us. And so there are many circumstances in this world in which God doesn't want.

Us to be at peace with people. And yet Paul says, as much as.

It lies with you, as much as it's in your power, all these other things taken into consideration, when it's left to you, be at peace with all men. Now, what I'm getting at here in this illustration, is that there are certain ethical exhortations that that amount to ideals after which we strive, things which we should be doing unless something else comes up, some legitimate reason to depart from that ideal. One of those ideals is peace. Another ideal is freedom from debt. In Romans again in the same passage, really the same context, Romans 13:8, Paul says, owe no man anything, save to love one another, for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law. There Paul lays it down not in terms of the language, as much as lies in you be at peace. He doesn't say, as much as you can. Don't owe any man anything, he says, don't owe anything to anybody. And yet we do know from other passages of God's Word that debt is legitimate in some circumstances. Paul is expecting us to be able to bring that to bear on our hearing of his epistle, to remember that what he's saying here is, I know that there are circumstances where you may need to be into debt, where it's legitimate to be in debt, but as much as you can, he says, don't you owe anything to anybody? Because rather you should be free only to love. And so the ideal is to avoid debt. But it isn't what is always going to happen. What you're going to have to do this morning is you consider this exhortation from God's Word is to ask yourself, to what degree am I playing games with myself and with the Lord in excusing the debt that I have contracted? Or that I'm contemplating, To what degree have I indebted myself in a way that violates this principle? To what degree am I indebted or can become indebted in a way that lives up to the ideal status of this? Don't be in debt to anyone. Both Matthew Henry and John Murray comment on this particular passage on the sin and the reproach, as they call it, of accumulating unnecessary debts? It's an unwise person who does not recognize that Scripture frowns upon and discourages debt arrangements. It's not just Poor Richard's Almanac. Neither borrower nor lender be it's the word of God that says, don't be a borrower, don't indebt yourself. Let me give you just a couple of illustrations here from the Book of Proverbs. If you want to turn back to the Old Testament, here's a book of wisdom. And Proverbs 6:1:5 would tell us this. This morning, my son, if thou art become surety for thy neighbor, if thou hast stricken thy hands For a stranger. That is to say, if you've shaken hands in a commercial agreement, thou art snared with the words of thy mouth. Thou art taken with the words of thy mouth. Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself. Seeing thou art come into the hand of thy neighbor, go humble thyself and importune thy neighbor. Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids. Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter and as a bird from the hand of the fowler. Here, Proverbs is not talking about merely contracting the debt. It's talking about becoming the co signer on the note, becoming the surety.

And what Proverbs recommends to you says, if you've been so foolish as to.

Get into that kind of debt arrangement, if you're backing up a note, go humble yourself, get on your knees and.

Plead with that person. As much as the roe wants to.

Escape from the hunter, you should escape from the lender. Proverbs says, listen, my son, if you have any wisdom in you, do not indebt yourself. Don't back up the debts of others. And yet we do know the Bible gives procedures and also, I think, legitimate space for becoming a surety under some circumstances. But it's not a very good idea. You better watch out who you become a surety for. You better watch out what debt you get involved in. A wise person sees that Scripture frowns on this situation. For you see, those who have been bought by the Lord ought to strive diligently to avoid becoming the servants of men. This is Paul's principle. In 1 Corinthians 7, he says, you should, as much as you can, be free of all men. Don't enslave yourself. You've been bought with a price. You've been set free, so live as people who are free. The book of Proverbs tells us in chapter 22, verse 7, that the borrower is the slave to the lender. So what I'm getting at here is you have to understand that the Bible, while it condones debt under some circumstances that we'll be talking about, the Bible's first word to you is, watch out, be wise, deliver yourself, owe no man anything. And yet that's an ideal. There are exceptions to that ideal. The Bible gives some of them. A very interesting one is found in the Book of Philemon. Turn with me if you will, to Philemon. It has only one chapter, verses 18 to 19.

You remember the circumstances.

Paul is writing for the sake of Onesimus, a runaway slave, that he has run into during his imprisonment, and it turns out in God's providence, really ironically, that this slave that meets Paul and is converted by his ministry has run away from a man that Paul knows by the name of Philemon. So Paul writes to him to introduce this slave and to plead with Philemon for lenient treatment of the slave as he returns as a Christian brother. And as part of this pleading, notice what Paul says in verses 18 and 19. But if he hath wronged thee at all, or owed thee, ought put that to mine account. I, Paul, write it with mine own hand. I will repay it that I say not unto thee, that thou owest to me even thine own self. Besides, just a fascinating passage. In the first place, you have to notice what Paul's doing. Paul says, now, Philemon, I'm going to make it good. Onesimus owes you money, apparently. So whatever he owes you, he says, you charge it to my account. And then Paul gives the formal language of a contract.

He says, look, I'm writing it in my own hand. I'll repay it.

So I'm indebted myself for Onesimus taking of your money. He says, I won't even mention, of course, what you owe me for your salvation. But okay, so let's go on. That tells us that there are ways of paying debt that may not be in commercial currency. I do think that Paul would have paid the debt, and probably did, if it weren't forgiven by Philemon. Paul would have paid the debt because he swore that he'd do it. But Paul also realized that Philemon owed him far more than any amount of money, and he expected Philemon to see the transition, the translation of those two values, and to just cancel it. But apart from that, apart from Paul, tongue in cheek, I won't even mention to you, of course, since your salvation depends on my preaching, you owe me a great deal too. But I'll pay it. Paul, the very man who says, owe no man anything, says, look, Philemon, I'll pay it. Charge me for whatever Onesimus owes you. Here's the situation of a Christian apostle entering into a debt arrangement freely, willingly and righteously. And so the Bible tells us in no uncertain terms, stay out of debt if you can. We don't like those kind of commandments. We don't like ideals. We like yes and no. It either is right or either is wrong. But what I have to tell you is that the word of God doesn't put it to you that way. It says, this is your goal, this is your default setting. In the absence of other factors. Don't be in debt. But there are some circumstances where you can. Let's talk about some of those circumstances. That's what you want to hear about this morning anyway. I'm going to draw some distinctions this morning. I'm going to draw a distinction between poverty, debt or debts of necessity, business debts and debts of convenience. And I don't mean to say that the word of God sets these out as strict categories, but I think it will help you to organize your thinking in the first place, a debt of convenience. Let's say that. Say that you're out at Dodger Stadium and you get ready to go home. Your car won't start, And lo and behold, there are people who provide a service in this world of starting cars. They'll get you on the road again. But you see, they want $60 to get you out on the road. And after all the popcorn and peanuts and other things you had at the game, you've only got 20. It so happens that one of the friends who came along with you to the game has an extra $50 with him. So there you sit in a moral dilemma, right? How many of you would sit very long with this dilemma? You say to your friend, listen, you think you could loan me $40 till tomorrow or until payday into the week, or until a check can clear or something, and that way we can get.

On the road and get home.

Or of course, then again, we could take this oh, no, man, anything principle and treat it in a way that Paul never treated it and say, no, I never can get into debt.

We walk home.

From Dodger seating, and of course you're about three weeks late to work, and so you lose your job and all the other resources are jeopardized because of that kind of decision. Now that's what I would call a debt of convenience. A debt where somebody is not really going to be out anything but the amount of time it takes you to turn over the money. A lot of you drive cars and charge the gas that you put into your car. You also know that if you don't pay off your bill at the end of the 30 days when you're billed, that an interest amount is added. And that kind of hurts. And so many of you will go ahead and charge the gas and pay your entire debt at the end of the month, lest any interest is added. Okay, I buy gas on August 10th. I get billed on August 23rd for the gas I bought on the 10th. Have I been in debt for 13 days? Nearly two weeks? Well, we live In a situation where you're going to have to make some translation of ancient agrarian economic circumstances to a modern industrialized world. And I'm not going to say thus saith the Lord. I'm going to challenge you, though, to think this through. I would say that that is not a debt. I would say that's a debt of convenience, if you want to put it that way. But it's not a debt because you're not putting yourself out, nor are you. I mean, you're not putting the other person out. You're just. It's the time for turning it over.

Somebody says, well, Al, you could just.

Carry all the cash that you needed. Well, I know some people who travel so much and have to put so many tanks of fuel in their car that to carry that much money probably is unwise for other reasons. And they would prefer the safety of having a credit card and then paying it at the end of the month. Well, I'm not considering that you see a debt that's forbidden by Paul here. I'm seeing that as a debt of convenience. But now debts of convenience can very easily become rationalizations, can't they, for debts of luxury? You know, the people down here that sell these video machines, they'll give me 18 months to pay off this machine, and what's the difference, really? It's just a matter of convenience. I get paid and, you know, small sums every month. And so I'll take a little bit of that small sum every month and give it to them. Right. It's just a matter of convenience. Right? Wrong. I'm giving you such an obvious, blatant rationalization for the sake of indulging your own passions that I hope you can see what I'm warning you about. Again, I'm not trying to draw such a line that I can tell you when you have and when you have not in your own individual experience has done this. But I do tell you that you have a greedy heart. I know you do. The Bible says you do. You have a greedy heart. And a greedy heart will even take a debt of convenience, which is, I think, just a manner of monetary exchange in our industrialized world. Or for the sake of waiting till you can get to the bank and pay off your friend for the loan and that sort of thing. You'll take that and you'll expand it in a way that it shouldn't be. There's another distinction. Confuse you a little bit more. I think we do need to distinguish between debts that are contracted for the sake of necessity and debts contracted for the sake of convenience. And then finally, debts which are contracted for the sake of business ventures, that is to say, commercial debts. Debts that we enter into for the sake of expanding a business enterprise. Now, for a long time, the Christian church had the reputation of forbidding all debt and therefore being against the development of capitalism. In modern history, however, that was a misunderstanding for a long time. In fact, we're going to see that the Bible itself gives us the precise distinction that I'm talking about in Deuteronomy, the 23rd chapter. If you turn with me to Deuteronomy 23, you will notice that there are two types of lending situations that the Bible speaks of. Only one of them forbids debt. It also should be the more common, the usual one. Deuteronomy 23:19. Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother. Interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of anything that is lent upon interest unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest, but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto in the land whither thou goest in to possess it. The Bible says to your brother, no interest. Boy, that seems kind of tough. Remember the editor of the Presbyterian Guardian arguing with me in print and in person over this subject a few years ago? Remember how he told me that, you see, the Hebrews lived in a situation.

That we don't enjoy today?

The way God was blessing the land and gave them their provisions and that sort of thing. We haven't got those promises, so how can we live by this strict standard? Of course, the application of that reasoning should take you even further to say, why should we worry about forbidding interest in any situation, even to poor brothers, since we don't live in a land that God has provided and has given us promises of provision and that sort of thing? That won't do. But it does seem rather strange that if my Christian brother comes and he says, I need some money, I'd like to borrow some money, then I can't charge him any interest. I mean, it's just automatic. That's it. Right. Well, there's a reason for that. Stop and think about it. See, when my Christian brother comes and he says, out of love, I want you to lend me this money, I always have the option of saying out of love. I should tell you you shouldn't be taking any money because my Christian brother ought not to be indebted himself unless it's a matter of necessity. Last week in Our question and answer period, somebody said, well, okay, what amounts to necessity? Well, I can tell you what amounts to necessity. When you can't eat, you can't clothe yourself, you have no place to sleep. Things of that order are obviously matters of necessity. And you can't pursue your livelihood because you haven't got a car. That becomes a necessity. So I give you some obvious illustrations. You can go beyond that. But the reason why we don't have to draw a real clear line on this question and the reason the Bible doesn't bother to do so is that, remember, it's my money that I'm willingly going to give up. I'm going to do so in love. But if a brother comes to me and I'm not convinced that it's a necessity, he's not going to get the loan. He's going to get an ethical exhortation about not, you know, putting himself into slavery with me. And it happens with you.

I'm sure you're all just as prudent with the use of your funds. People within the Christian church, those who are our brothers, are not going to get into situations where they borrow. And because they're out watching a color.

TV on the basis of what they've.

Taken from you, you can't take any interest. No. Because you're not going to give the loan in the first place.

When does the Christian brother come? Christian brother comes when the brother can't feed his family, can't clothe them, house them, things of that nature. And then the Bible says, give freely to him and don't take any money on top of it.

You see, he's going to use that money for what we would call consumption purposes. If a man borrows money to go.

Out and buy a box of Wheaties, he's not going to have anything in.

A couple days to show for that, is he? Let me change the situation, though.

What if a man comes to you.

He'S borrowing money because he wants to build a better machine for boxing Wheaties.

Is he going to have something to.

Show in a couple days?

Well, I'm assuming that he can get it built and running and all that. Expand the illustration.

Is he going to have anything to show in a couple of months for that? A couple of years? Yeah.

Gonna have a lot better boxes. Hopefully that's what the plan was.

He's gonna be making a lot more money now in a situation like that, in a commercial venture where the money is not going to be used for consumption but for production, the Bible would.

Say it's alright to charge him money to gain some benefit from putting your.

Money out to this person. You say, well, how does it say that? It says here, if some Gentile comes, if someone who's not your brother, then you can lend upon interest unto a foreigner. You may lend upon interest. Well, what appears at first to be a religious distinction between a brother and.

Not a brother, and does in the first, I think at the first, begin.

As that kind of distinction really turns out and translates in terms of the.

Culture of that day to be a charity business distinction.

The reason for that is the foreigners who were in Israel were foreigners because they were traveling merchants.

I'll give you an illustration of that from elsewhere in the Bible.

Turn to Proverbs, the 31st chapter, and look with me at verse 24. Most of your translations will say something like, she maketh linen garments and selleth them, and delivereth girdles unto the merchant, right?

But then if you have anything in your margin or any kind of textual.

Note, you will find out that the word merchant in your translation is not the word merchant in Hebrew at all. So, word Canaanite.

Canaanite.

And yet almost all modern translations will make the cultural translation and not just the verbal translation. The Canaanites who traveled as foreigners in Israel were traveling merchants. And that's why the word of God says, when a merchant comes to you.

And one that you have no love.

Obligation to as a brother anyway comes.

To you, when a foreigner or a Canaanite comes to you, yeah, you can.

Lend upon interest, but not to a brother. Because a brother, he's only going to come and borrow in a case of.

Necessity, in a case of poverty, if you will.

Now, the reformers themselves drew this kind of distinction.

I think it's an important one.

They abhorred usurious loans, loans that carried interest as contrary to the equity of God's law. And they saw it as a violation of Christian charity. In fact, John Calvin goes on and on about how it's a violation of the Golden Rule, if you will. His argument would be, how would you like it if somebody treated you that way?

Okay, you can't eat.

You need to borrow some money so you can eat. And then somebody wants to make money off of your misfortune. How would you like that? Is this just a terrible thing? Martin Luther in 1524 wrote a tract entitled On Trade and Usury. And there he condemned usury on the basis of the legislation in Deuteronomy and also on the Aristotelian theory of the sterility of Money. He said that believers would charge interest to each other. That they would do so was an untoward practice. Calvin wrote explicitly in his sermons against usury within the circle of faith. In fact, in his harmony on the Pentateuch at the Eighth Commandment, he uses these words. He says the charging of interest is an odious practice. He says it is, quote, the plague. And he sees those who charge interest as. And this is the words of the commentary, bloodsuckers. Calvin would not tolerate the charging of interest within the circle of faith. One wonders what Calvin might say in some of our General assembly debates today on this subject. However, both Luther and Calvin contrasted poverty loans, the only kind that was countenanced for Christians because borrowing was otherwise discouraged. They contrasted poverty loans to business loans in the case of what was called a contract of mutual risk.

Luther's words.

Luther said those with available funds could loan on interest to a merchant and collect, he said, 5% or less.

I don't know where he got that.

Depending upon the success of the enterprise. Now, I'm not quoting this just because it has traditional weight with us. Luther said it, Calvin said it. But I want you to look at the reasoning here. It's exactly right.

It's quite sound.

Luther says, a man comes to you and he says, I want to start a business. I want to expand my business. I want to improve my business.

I want to make more money.

Now, if you will give me some of your money for the time being, then I can make more money. Luther said, that's a contract of. How did he put it here? A contract of mutual risk.

I give him the money, and what.

If he comes and he has a better mousetrap?

Right? Right.

It turns out there aren't any mice left in this world, or the mice just aren't particularly deceived by his trap. What if it turns out that his business, it goes completely nothing? Well, then I've lent him money and he doesn't even have anything to pay me back. I'm not talking about interest. He can't even pay back the principal because his business went under. But think about it the other way. What if this guy has a better mousetrap to make and everybody in the world sees how good it works and wants one? I mean, they're up night and day building these mousetraps. They just can't ship them out to the outer provinces fast enough. The guy's making bucketfuls of money that.

He wouldn't have made if you hadn't.

Given him this money. And then he comes back. And he says, well, there's the principal. You loaned me $30,000 for that. I'm making about 30,000 a week now, and thanks a lot. You don't need a whole lot of ethical exhortation or a great deal of philosophical sophistication to understand that that's not right for you.

See, that was your money that's helping him make that money. It was his wisdom and entrepreneurial.

Efficiency, success. Nevertheless, it took your money. And so Luther said, it's only right that when he comes back, because it was a contract of mutual risk, it should now become a contract of mutual benefit.

And again, I don't know why Luther said 5%. There was this grave fear of usury among Christians.

Maybe that accounts for it culturally. But nevertheless, he said, you go into a business deal with somebody, you have a right to take the lumps with him and to take the blessings with him.

And I think this is what the.

Word of God teaches us. When it says, a Canaanite comes to you, a traveling merchant, he wants to.

Make money, and you think it's a.

Pretty good deal, Go ahead and charge him interest. Let him promise you that his venture.

Is going to succeed and to pay you accordingly.

So you have these distinctions to remember, friends.

You have a loan of convenience, but I think it's a modern sort of thing, a business loan, a loan for productivity purposes.

And then you have loans for consumption, loans of necessity for the sake of.

People keeping alive and staying in their jobs.

You're going to ask this question later. And so I'm only going to take a minute or two here and settle it.

Well, I probably won't settle it, but.

At least I'll answer it. Where do home mortgages fall in all that? Are they loans of convenience, loans for productivity purposes, or loans of consumption? Are they charity loans, or are they business loans, loans? Well, one more factor from the Bible has to be taken into account. If you don't agree with my bottom line here, at least take into account the things I'm telling you. In the Old Testament, it was necessary in many cases, if not all, for a person who took a loan to give surety of the loan, to give a pledge for the loan. Excuse me, a pledge.

Okay.

I don't have very much. We're down to just the clothing that's on our back and just a few objects of furniture, maybe a blanket or two to sleep on.

And I need some money to buy.

Wheaties so I can feed my children breakfast in the morning, or corn flakes or whatever. It's going to be now I take the loan from you. The Bible says it's right during the daytime hours for the man who gives me the money to take my outer garment or my blanket as a pledge.

Now stop and think about this because.

This does not mean that the man is not going to be out anything. If I default on the loan. In many cases, the amount of money I would take back in that society, if I would take enough to feed my family for two, two weeks, probably my outer garment would not come anywhere.

Close to paying for that anyway.

Why then would he take my outer garment? Well, if I get a loan from him on the basis of my family.

Not eating and I give him my.

Outer garment during the business hours, if.

You want to put it that way, the daylight hours.

And then I go to somebody else. See, I figure out, see, all these Christian brothers, they've got to be good to me about this. I go to somebody else and I say, now look, my family's not eating. And he says, okay, here's the money. Where's your outer garment or the blanket or whatever I'm going to take as pledge If I can't show him that I have that, what's that telling? He says, I've already pledged to somebody else to pay, haven't I? See, I'm expanding the amount of charitable income to to me on the basis of one set of needs, one circumstance. And so that pledge stood as a marker, if you will. This man has already indebted himself.

But.

The pledge did not pay for the loan. In our day and age, however, there are loans which are made which we call mortgages, which when a person defaults on but the lender simply repossesses. There are good and bad mortgages from a business standpoint, and I don't want to get you confused by going into that, but in our day and age, property or home mortgages are a good mortgage to make from a lender standpoint. That is to say, if you default, you don't pay for three months or whatever, the law is going to allow for their foreclosure. Let's just say it's three months. You don't pay for three months. They evict you from the house. You say, but I've been paying for 20 years. It's too bad when it comes to a mortgage, you're out. And so they repossess the house. And what it amounts to is you've made all These payments for 20 years or two years or two months, whatever it turns out to be as a payment to them and they still have it. By contrast, if you come to me and you say I need $300 and I say, well boy, the only place I can get that is right here out of this wallet. And I take my wallet out. If I had $300 and gave you the $300 and then you skip town. I don't put $300 back into my wallet, do I? And so you see there's a difference between a secured debt, a mortgage where you can repossess upon default of payment and a debt where it's just out of the pocket. To use the illustration, it's gone and it's not going to be returned. In our day and age, I do believe that a home mortgage is best classified as a business venture. Look at it as joint ownership if you want to, look at it as an investment if you want to. But as a matter of fact, it's a secured debt. The company, the bank's not going to be out anything if I walk out on the. In fact, they're going to pick up all the payments I've made and have.

The house to sell anyway.

It's going to be a really good business situation for them. I'm not jeopardizing them financially. Now of course we also mortgage in our day and age commodities which are ruined in the use or you're not able to get the value back from them. And I would just say that's a very bad business choice to mortgage that kind of thing. But the fact of the matter is a secured debt is not in a sense debt where a man is going to lose out because you have decided to become irresponsible and not pay back. You need to remember the Christian call to proper use of your money.

When it comes to a home mortgage.

I believe a circumstance can arise, has arisen, I've seen it arise where the amount of money that you will be paying out every month for your housing needs is going to be roughly equivalent whether you do so by renting or by paying off a home mortgage. What's the difference then? Well, the difference is not the amount of out of pocket expense. You're still going to pay your tithe, still have so much money left over for buying food and all the rest. Because about that amount of money is.

Going to go out whether you're paying.

In interest or paying, I mean paying it in a mortgage payment, including the interest or paying it simply to a landlord. The difference obviously is consequential. It's not principal. That is to say the consequences are going to Be different. If I pay for 20 years to a landlord and then I move, what do I take with me?

Thanks a lot for making your payments on time.

That's what I take with me is if that this may be thanks from my landlord. However, if I make payments for 20 years again, the same amount of money out of this Christian family's income, the.

Same amount of money going out for.

20 years in the case of a mortgage. So I'm going to be able to.

Take some kind of equity with me.

Again if I run my business properly and sell well and that sort of thing. But all those things taken into account, I trust you can see then the difference between a home mortgage and either a loan of convenience, a loan for strict business productivity purposes, or a loan of necessity. Now, on these loans that we've been talking about, these kinds of debts, which.

One should carry, interest or usury?

And real quick, just so you won't be confused by what some people say, there is no difference between interest or usury. A lot of people I remember I went to the administrator of a school that I taught for once, a school that was training people for the ministry. And when they didn't have enough money to pay for their tuition or for their housing, the school would lend them money on interest. And so teaching ethics at that particular school, I was a bit grieved by this obvious violation of Christian charity. And I went to the administrator and I explained the biblical situation. I said, if these people are really in need and it's on that basis, I mean, you're not extending the loan to them as a business venture, right?

I mean, they don't look like a.

Good mark for, for bringing more money into the school.

That's not why you're doing it?

Oh no, no, no. We're convinced they need the money. I'm saying, well, if they need the money, then why are you capitalizing upon their poverty? You shouldn't be charging them usury. And you know what his response was? Interestingly, and I'm not trying to get on this particular person, but it shows you how our language leads us into sin. He says we're not charging them usury, we're charging them interesting, because usury means exorbitant interest. Usury means blood sucking. Usury means really getting a guy when he's down and taking him for all he's worth. No, usury simply means some kind of addition to the principal interest. Now what does the Bible say about charging interest? Turn in the Bible to Exodus, the 22nd chapter, verse 25. If Thou lend money to any of my people with thee that is poor, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor, neither shall ye lay upon him interest. The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms then, that when a man comes to me and he wants money because he's in need of not for convenience, not for a color tv, not for a business purpose, but when he comes in need, I am not to charge him any interest at all. That same principle is reflected in Leviticus 25, Deuteronomy 15, and Deuteronomy 23:19. Look at 23:19 in the book of Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 23, the 19th verse says, Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother. Interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of anything that is lent upon interest. If your brother comes and you feel it's proper to lend to him, either for convenience or for necessity, don't charge him interest.

Why?

Because you both enjoy the freedom of the Lord. You both have been bought with the price. You don't make money off your Christian brother. In Ezekiel the 18th chapter. If you want to trace this out, we don't have time this morning to read it. Ezekiel, the 18th chapter. Ezekiel says that you deserve to die.

If you charge your Christian brother interest. Hebrew brother in that day. But you get the translation.

To the modern situation.

In the New.

Testament, we find this even more stringently put. In Luke the sixth chapter, verses 34 and 35, Jesus tells us that this is the obligation of charity. Luke 6:34, he says, and if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thank have you? Even sinners lend to sinners to receive again as much. But love your enemies and do them good, and lend, never despairing, and your reward shall be great, and you shall be sons of the Most High. For he is kind toward the unthankful and evil. Jesus says, you want to be like your heavenly Father. This is lend freely. Don't expect anything in return. In fact, Jesus taught us to pray, and we prayed it this morning. Forgive us our debts as we flesh. Forgive our debtors. It is not inappropriate when a man makes the promise of repayment for him to try to repay. But now listen very closely. What is inappropriate is for you to try to collect. That probably pinches a little bit doesn't strike us as exactly fair, does it? No, but it does strike us as the way God treats us. What I'm saying is, you come to me and you say, I need $300. And I find out what the reason is. And I'm convinced that you're properly borrowing this money for necessity. When I give you the $300, I go home and I pray God forgive me my debts, as I now will.

Forgive my debtor in my heart.

That 3, $300 is now gone. It's a contribution, which is to say.

I never go back to that person.

And say, hey, you owe me $300. I know your family needed Wheaties and all the rest, but I want my $300. Jesus says you lend, never despairing. Trust your Heavenly Father. He'll take care of you. You act in a charitable fashion, and when you're charitable, you forgive debt. In fact, if you can't do that, are you asking yourself that question? Can I do that? Can I give to somebody who's in need and say it's a contribution and not just a loan? If you can't do that, the Bible says God can't forgive you. Listen to the words again. My friends, we like to pray, forgive us the things we do wrong as we forgive those who do wrong against us. But Jesus is more concrete, by the way, the general application is true, but Jesus is more concrete. He says, can you forgive your debtors? Are you willing to say, the money's gone, I won't collect it? If you can't say that, then how can you ask God to forgive you some applications real quickly? As we close this morning, this question of usury is being debated in our own denomination. And I don't bring that to your attention just for, if you will, gossiping purposes.

And to keep your attention, I bring.

It before you because what have I just said about a willingness to forgive debts? In our own denomination, congregations are sometimes convinced that they must borrow money for the sake of getting a church property. I am personally convinced that maybe half of those times are not legitimate. Where it's for the sake of having a nicer building or for a better situation than you actually have to have. But forgetting that even saying that there are some cases, in fact, I was very close to saying that about our own congregation when I saw after two years of struggling what it does not to have a location, as we didn't that there are some cases where it's necessary unless you're going to have just a house, church and stay at that size necessary to have some kind of a building, a public place, and that takes money that we don't have. So the life of a congregation can sometimes depend upon that. Now, when that happens in our own denomination, our denomination offers to lend money and all you have to pay back is the principal and interest that's below the going rate. That's the argument. We're charitable because we don't charge as much interest as others do. But Jesus said, forgive debts if you expect your debts to be forgiven. If this is a loan of convenience or a loan of luxury, the church should say by no means will the money be lent to you. Owe no man anything. Paul said, that's the ideal. That's our default setting. As Christians we go through this world, we don't want to be in debt unless we absolutely have to. And when we absolutely have to, we aren't going to make money off one another. The Orthodox Presbyterian Church doesn't stand alone in this. And so believe me, I'm not picking on it. But it is right close at home. It's a very concrete place where you can start living out the privileges of the gospel of living under the jubilee freedom of Jesus Christ to let people free of the interest on loans, indeed of the very principle if it's for the sake of building up the kingdom of God.

And yet we have people who are.

Making money off the situation. And if you think God forgives or if you think God tolerates that situation, the then you are really deceived. And our presbytery is deceived and our denomination is deceived. The recent general assembly of our church, a report on usury within the kingdom was brought in. A report by the way, that says almost exactly what I'm saying in this morning's exhortation. It was treated like a political football, not treated for the heart searching issue that it was. It was treated as a matter of whether we are theonomists or not, whether we need to run from this issue. There was even some effort to make sure the report wasn't even printed in the minutes of the denomination. Now many of you in this congregation are interested in having an impact on your society round about you for the.

Sake of reforming the way things are done.

Well, here's the situation that I'm giving you. You want to see some reform? Come, let's start at the household of God. Let's start right here and start cleaning up our own act. You say, well, what can I do about it? Well, you can start letting people feel the pinch of the moral condemnation of God's word when they make a political football out of this. You ought to make it clear to the pastors, you know, and the elders, you know, that you want them to start forgiving debts. If we want God to forgive our to start living up to the freedom of the gospel. You need to make that clear. You need to pray and to write and to do everything within your power to see to it that our denomination is reformed. Because if we can't be reformed, believe me, you're fooling yourself if you think we can get laws passed against homosexuality out in our general society. If we can't, even within the household of faith, get people to honor the word of God, to change their practices, then we're really wasting our time in more far fetched ventures. I'm calling you this morning to a new focus in your lives when it comes to the spending and the using of your money. Paul said, owe no man anything but to love one another. A lot of you I have spent much time thinking about how much money can we spend, how much can we borrow? What can we get away with? Can we get this now rather than putting off things right? We put a lot of thought into that. And yet Paul says, owe them anything but to love one another. I wonder how much time we put into thinking through paying off the debts of love. And they are considerable. Paul said In Romans the first chapter, verse 14, I am debtor both to the Jews and to the Greeks. A debtor I owe them. What did Paul owe them? He owed them the Gospel. You can be very sure that while we sit around thinking about how we can buy new boats and color TVs and new clothes and things like that, Paul sat around thinking about how can I get the gospel to more people? How can I pay off the debt of showing them the way of salvation? Basically, when it comes to the subject of debt and usury, the Bible's worth, the principle is not me, but others. I don't borrow for the sake of me. I lend for the sake of relieving the needs of others. I don't worry about getting myself ahead and improving my life. I worry about the love that I.

Owe to my neighbor.

What I'm saying is our nation has become enslaved to debt. Slaves of debt. Paul says, rather, if you understand the gospel, you'll become slaves of love.