#229 Ben Hawkes - The Great Awakening

Welcome to the State of the Markets podcast. I'm Paul Rodriguez of thinktrading.com.

I'm Tim Price of pricevaluepartners.com.

And our very special guest is Ben Hawkes. Just to give you a heads up, this is a non-financial episode. We get very spiritual and philosophical, and it was wonderful, but we didn't get around to speaking about finance, which we will do next time we have Ben on. And talking of having people on, we've got 3 bangers coming up. We've got Andy Pancioli, the cycles expert. We've got Dave Hunter, the melt-up and meltdown expert, and Akhil Patel, the author of The Secret Wealth Advantage. So it's going to be 3 that you really don't want to miss. In the meantime, sit back, relax, and on with the show.

Ben Hawkes, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Sorry, I was feeling very informal, so I was taking a massive glug of admittedly terrible coffee. Um, thank you for your time, Paul and Tim. It's a pleasure to be here. Uh, frankly, a surprise because you guys have got a, you know, real podcast.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

Well, we'll see, I suppose.

Yeah. So Ben, um, for people who don't know you, could, could you introduce Ben Hawkes to the world?

Yes, of course. Well, I'm duty-bound because of the work I do to say I am simply a spiritual being having a physical human experience in this third-dimensional reality. But to answer the question in a way that would make more sense at this point in the podcast, broadly speaking, I'm an entrepreneur. Oh, by the way, I'm a man. I'm happy to state that without any equivocation.

You identify as a man or you actually are a man?

No, I am literally a man. I have all of the bits that are required to put this proposition out to the real world. So I just need to make that first, make that clear. My pronouns are it, he, or what, and it's all good. So we're in a safe space. I just wanted to make that clear, in a safe space for common sense and seeing things how they actually are and saying so. But in broad terms, I'm probably an entrepreneur. That probably makes me feel quite wanky, but I'll cover that up by being more English than American about it. Essentially, that means that I execute on many business ideas per week and I fail at about 99% of them. Um, I've spent the last quarter of a century working mainly in sales and marketing across professional services, recruitment, wealth management, things of that nature. Much like Superman, but with less of the power and the good looks, I've maintained a parallel career. I spent 10 years in uniform in the reserve forces. I'm a performance coach. I've run a podcast for the last 2 years called The Wake Up. I'm an author. I wrote with my brother and fellow warrior Michael Dowling Fleet a book called The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Great Awakening in November, just as his father was passing and my second child was coming into the world. We decided to write a book which we have turned into a course called Awaken Life Foundations 1, which is coming out tomorrow, God willing. So I'm many things, but ultimately I'm a human. Hue, light, color, love, manifest, I am like everybody else, light made manifest, and I'm here for my short time in this incarnation to see if I can't help along the next world and help people in the process that we're going through, which I understand is called the Great Awakening.

So the book is, is what, what led us to sort of get in touch. So I, I was put onto the book, um, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Great Awakening, by a client. Who said, you know, you'll probably like this. Now, is it fair— I'm gonna make, make a, a supposition or make a suggestion. I first came across one of the most unsettling books I've ever read, um, a book called 180 Degrees: Unlearn the Lies You've Been Taught to Believe by Fergus O'Connor Greenwood. I came across that via a chap called Richard Vobes.

Ah, yes.

And I've no idea quite how that happened because I'd never heard of Richard Vobes, but I happened to stumble upon him. I think Would it be fair to say that The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Great Awakening is a little akin to a, a more lighthearted, um, more user-friendly guide to the world as we are now experiencing it than 180 Degrees? Because 180 Degrees is a bit of a brick. It's like 800-odd pages. And as I say, I, taking it at face value, I found it deeply unsettling but also extraordinarily meaningful. But I think for many people it's possibly even now a bit too soon for some people. Is that a fair way of sort of describing your book?

Yeah, it is. And the cast of characters you've introduced there are all very familiar to me. I interviewed Richard, um, I think about a year and a half ago for my podcast. We've kept in touch. I am due to go and speak to him. He very kindly gave a review of the book on his YouTube channel. Which led to a flurry of activity over there at Amazon Fulfillment. I know 180 Degrees—

Is that why the web crashed earlier this week?

Exactly this. It was nothing to do with cyberterrorism.

It was FOMO panic sales, panic purchases of the book.

Pre-Christmas FOMO terror, basically, that they were going to run out of paper because there's something called climate change. I don't know if you've heard of it, and it has all sorts of unseen, misunderstood outcomes, one of them being more ice being in the Arctic than there were before, but we'll leave that one. So I know 180 Degrees very well. In fact, my microphone is balancing on it as I speak to you, 'cause it is, as you say, a brick. So I've currently got a David Icke book, which is quite thick, and Fergus's book. I met Fergus when I interviewed him. God, when was it? I think 2023, and we got on very well and we kept in touch. I introduced him to a few people that I knew in the community, and broadly speaking, we became friends and still are. Um, apparently we've been friends in many lives, but we're continuing to look into that. Um, I agree with you on 180. Um, it was appalling and inspiring at the same time. And what struck me about that book, it was the first adult book about these issues that I had ever read. Um, and I've always, always expressed to Fergus that there's plenty more juice in that book, um, and he needs to get around hawking his wares a little more.

We had that conversation last week when I last saw him because I believe he's working on the follow-up, which is in, in his own words, more spiritual than, than 180, which is maybe at a more sort of worldly level perhaps.

Um, yes, 180, I would say, is in the third and fourth dimensions. What he's working on at the moment is certainly in the fourth and the fifth. Um, I've, I've had a few, uh, I've had a few, um, how would I say it, say it's previews, uh, of it, and it's quite salty stuff. And, uh, to the extent that the world may not be ready for it, which I've expressed to him, but, um, in 2024, early on, Um, I was— I had a bit of an odd year, um, which involved, you know, miscarriages, nervous breakdowns, mother's almost dying, granny's dying, uh, we had a demonic possession, we had a couple of business failures, all sorts going on. And in amongst that, I was kind of searching for a bit of a purpose, and I phoned up Ferguson and said, look, I've had a frightfully good idea, you know, I've got a voice and I know how to use it, and I have eyes, and I've read your book, so I should do the audiobook for you. And unbeknownst to me, he'd been pushed by, I think, a few mutual friends of yours to get the audiobook done because 180 is obviously a book that needs to be. Sorry, my phone's just gone off because it's 11:11. And as Ted Lasso and everyone knows, that's my wishing time. So I'm just going to wish for a successful interview today. So I phoned up Ferguson and said, listen, I think I should do this. He said, great, I've been searching for a willing victim. To do this for quite some time. And after the fact, he said, look, I'm glad it was you, Ben, because I quite like you. I want you to do it. You've got a good voice. You know how to use it. And you've never done an audiobook before. And if you had, you wouldn't have even come to me and said, this is a good idea. It was quite possibly the worst experience of my professional and personal life. No offense, Fergus, but I've told him that many times. 180 is, as you know, a very large book. It's about 1,000 pages. The audiobook, which is soon to be available on Audible, stretched to 24 hours of recorded speech. And for anyone who hasn't done an audiobook before, every minute of recorded audio generally takes you about 10 or 15 to get down. And considering the subject matter and its, how we say, darkness and denseness involving institutionalized pedophilia, pedophilia, satanic ritual abuse, you know, children die of cancer when they really shouldn't have, It was a tough gig. It was a very tough gig, and it was happening at a time in my life which was not particularly savory and salubrious. But I was told by a few people with, you know, a connection to the other, with gifts, that it didn't have to be me, but I was chosen, so I may as well do it. I had to get on with it because it was going to be important. And that 180, I still believe, is an important book and is laying dormant to an extent for the rest of the world to understand what is going on and to need to know what has happened and what kind of world we're living in and the world that we have an opportunity to build. So I kept at it and I think it was 31st of December we finished that bad boy and that was that. He's asked me to do the new one and I've said, yes, fine, as long as I can do it hermetically sealed in a blessed Faraday cage with a couple of priests outside. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But to answer your question, Hitchhikers essentially came about because Michael and I were launching a coaching company near the end of '24. And Michael and I are, if you get us going, you won't think this at all, but we're basically quite normal people. We're quite competent in our chosen areas. Michael is a world-class educator and edtech founder. I'm a salesperson, pretty good at it. Um, but we are kind of normal functioning third-dimensional human beings who identify as people with bits. And what we wanted to do was really reach a point where we could have a cogent way of articulating terms like spirit, divine, uh, fifth dimension, fourth dimension, spiritual warfare. So we started work on a taxonomy such that our coaching practice would always have a good answer, a cogent answer to what the hell is this thing. That spiritual influencers, podcasters, podcast creators, TikTok creators, Instagram creators are using with abandon and possibly with not much thought. So we started it as a kind of dictionary for us internally, and it soon turned into a book. We got it done in about 4 weeks, just as my son was born, just as Michael was, God bless him, burying his father. And by Christmas, we'd finished the thing. We got it out. And people started to kind of write nice reviews, and we started having lovely conversations like this one about it. And we call it ultimately the, the first toilet book of the Great Awakening. It's there to sit in the downstairs loo, possibly along with, you know, a collected Viz cartoon with a crossword book, so people can pick it up and say, right, let's talk about Satanic ritual abuse, let's talk about debt slavery, let's talk about conversion licenses, let's talk about the straw man. 'Let's talk about frequency warfare,' along with anything else they might get from the BINO annual. So it is there as a lighthearted guide. It's there as a bridge to get people thinking about and talking about quite difficult, dense, thorny, crunchy subjects, but do it with a smile. Because one thing that we've learned, and you alluded to with your experience of reading 180 and intellectualizing what you found there, is the path of awakening is really quite— it can be quite gross, it can be quite hard, it can be quite dark, it can make you feel lonely, it can make you feel isolated, it can really make you feel revulsed. And ultimately, we don't have to— well, it doesn't have to be that way. And what we wanted to do was say, listen, the world is probably not as you thought it was. You know, there are some pretty rotten people out there A lot of people you thought were good are not good. A lot of people you thought you've been told are bad and are not bad. Putin might not actually be Hitler and things of this nature. And by poking fun at— ultimately, we are talking about a time of spiritual warfare. And, you know, evil is a thing and good is definitely a thing, and magic is a thing. And the thing I know about spells is once you realize that someone has you under their spell, the spell loses its power. And one of the best things that we can do to take away the power of those who seek to oppress us is to point at them and smile and laugh. And humor is a very underrated weapon in the spiritual war. Humor takes real consciousness. It takes real lively thought and a brain and knowing how to use it. So the ability to take something quite dark and dense and gross and disgusting and appalling and say, well, actually, let's turn this bad boy around, let's look at it from a different perspective. We felt we could really make the road to awakening just a little bit easier for people. And if we can make it easier for one person, we can make it easier for 7.5 billion of you. And if we can do that, even to a small percentage, we can make a real difference. And I won't put out that we were thinking all of that as we were writing the book and having the idea to write it. But as you'll hear me say many times in many contexts, there are no such things as coincidences. And everything has significance. So I'm pretty sure that's why we were caused to write the book or inspired to write the book. And write it we did, and it was great fun. We're very proud of it, and we hope it does some good.

When did you start to, for want of a better phrase, wake up? What were the events, seminal events that helped you on that process? Because I can, from my perspective, I can, it, for most of it, it was, it was not one thing. It was a succession of things quite spaced quite far apart. So the first one was the, the events of 2008 and the global financial crisis revealed just how disgusting and corrupt the world of capital markets and Wall Street and the City were. And then after that, it was probably 2016 and the Brexit referendum, which revealed just how disgusting and corrupt the media were. And then it took me a long while, and helped by books like yours and Fergus's, it then became abundantly clear that what I previously thought was confined to finance and then media and then the pharmaceutical sector actually applied to everything. In other words, everything's corrupt or seems to be corrupted. Big everything is corrupt.

Yes. Um, and that's not to say there aren't good, um, women and men of stout hearts and true spirit, uh, everywhere where we find evil. Uh, but the institutions themselves and those who run them certainly are not on our side. And that's one of the biggest things about this awakening process is thinking— well, not thinking, knowing. And belief and knowing are different things. Belief requires proof, but knowing is absolute, um, that governments, NGOs, councils, schools are not there for us. They're there against us. Um, I think the first thing for me was reading about the Bank of International Settlements. And I couldn't believe that important people of authority in countries were quite happy to sit together in Basel while there were wars going on and talk about, you know, moving the balance of gold from the Central Bank of Czechoslovakia to the Central Bank of Germany like it weren't no thang, but it was the consequence of an invasion. I started to think, well, that's a bit odd, isn't it?. And then I was put on to The Creature from Jekyll Island, and I listened to that, which is another cracking and very long audiobook, while we were doing up the house. And although Griffin always talks about the powers of worldwide socialism, which was very smart, I think, to gatekeep people's consciousness there, I did start to look at that and thinking, okay, well, money isn't money, currency is is a very different thing to that which I thought. And finance essentially is a massive, massive scam. But I did look at worldwide socialism and think, well, I don't really understand what that is. Then I started to look at around during COVID you know, what it was to be human. And I didn't go particularly far into it. You know, Amazon Prime took me on a couple of rabbit holes. It had David Icke on there at that point back in the days where you could watch RT on terrestrial television, which still remains the best news channel that I've ever watched personally. And I didn't really do a lot during COVID in the main. I actually thought it was real, which a lot of people have hilarious reactions to, and that's quite understandable. I didn't really worry about the rules in any way, shape, or form. I thought it was very odd that you could catch it standing up but not sitting down. Um, but I didn't really pay a lot of attention apart from to help people who needed help, you know, old people needing shopping and things of that nature. And I come from a family where people serve. Um, both grandfathers fought in the Second World War, won 14, both of them. He signed up to join the East Surrey Regiment when he was 14. Um, I never met him. He's, he's now my guardian angel, and since I've worked that out, the old bastard won't shut up. But it was, I felt it was incumbent on me, especially as we were expecting the arrival of our daughter, which by the way happened, and she's a wonderful human and a lot else. And we could talk about that later, it's hilarious. So I, when asked to volunteer at a vaccination center, I said, yes, of course. Because I think we were at a time of national peril, there was an enemy,. I wanted to fight it because that's what, you know, people who see themselves as warriors want to do. So I did 2 shifts at this vaccination center, you know, like some sort of incredibly efficient Nazi with a clipboard ushering people towards their death. And on the second go-through, which was an evening shift, I was told I could get my jab if I wanted to. And my parents had been very clear that they felt I should get it. So had my wife, because they felt that I was on something called the front line., and, uh, I was putting myself in danger and I should protect myself. You know, well, none of us are safe until we're all safe. A masterpiece of mind control programming. So I got in the queue for the vaccine. Um, of course now I know it's a gene editing bioweapon or the new medicine. Actually, I shouldn't say that. You guys want to keep your YouTube channel. You can bleep that out if you want to. Um, but I got in the queue to get one and as soon as I got in the queue, I knew I'd done something wrong. On my soul level, I was screaming, but I couldn't move. My soul wanted to leave, but my body was not willing. And I kept moving forward, knowing I was moving forward to something very dark. Maybe not to my death, but something was that was clearly going to be to my detriment. But I couldn't move. And then suddenly there was a big kerfuffle in the, uh, in the center, and it was 20 to 25 firefighters coming in, and they were making a lot of noise because they wanted their jabs because they were on the front line. And I did to myself, well, fire and viruses don't work well together, so why is there an elevated risk factor? But I was having an existential crisis at the time, so I didn't really ponder on that very, very quickly. But they got their jabs, off they went, and I came to the front of the queue and still I couldn't move. The nurse, who was a very kindly gentleman, came up with a bottle, with a vial, put it in front of me and said, I'm really sorry, Ben, but we've run out. 'No jab today.' And at that point, the spell had been broken. I did an about-turn, I got the hell out of there, and I knew I was never going to go back. And at that point, I realized— it all came very quickly— I realized, A, I'd probably been saved for something, B, getting the jab was a bad idea, and C, I was meant to do something, but I didn't know what. Now, I remember very clearly having a quite vociferous argument with my wife, taking our dear daughter to see my my parents, my grandmother for the first time. And my dear wife was saying, listen, why don't you want me to get the jab? And I didn't really know what I now know. So I was making a particularly poor argument. And eventually I said, look, because I love you and I don't want you to die. And she looked at me and said, well, why didn't you just say that in the beginning? And I thought to myself, right, we're going to be okay. And there's work to be done here. But since then, I read as much as I could. It helped that my wife didn't want to be anywhere near me after pregnancy, as most wives don't. So I was banished to the back room with the Amazon algorithm and my Kindle and essentially went down the rabbit hole of John Hamer and various other people like that and started to understand what was going on. I took on with a guy called Kern Frost from the Council of Human Development. I went through a process of basically having every single preconceived notion and belief I'd ever held be completely challenged and eviscerated, which ultimately spat me out at the end of that process with no belief system, um, a great hope for the future, and, and no ego. And from there, I started doing a podcast with Kern. That was an hour of dubious comedy and current affairs chat. I started interviewing people, and then in 2023, I started to tap into the idea that we were in a genuine struggle with evil. We were in spiritual warfare, and if we're in a struggle with evil, everyone knows, every good soldier knows, you need to know your enemy. So I booked in a very brave lady named Rachel Vaughan, whose father was the Australian Jeffrey Epstein. She was used in certain, uh, practices, let's say, both transcendental— not a good way— and physical. And she was used to create compromising material on the great and the good of Australian public life from her second birthday. So we talked about her experiences, um, in some detail, you know, nothing salacious, but it's probably the only time I've ever been a true journalist. Um, and I thought to myself at that point, well, you know, evil's real. I, I now have the evidence. Um, so let's crack on. Um, since then I've kept it up with coaching, kept it up with writing the book, kept up the podcast. Um, although universe had other ideas, so I've given that a break, may well get back to it in the new year. But ultimately, I was saved from getting the jab, which almost took my mother from us, certainly has taken others from us. And from there, I thought, well, I've been saved for something, so we need to find out what that is. And I'm still not absolutely clear, but I am assured it will become clear at some point.

Have you heard of a phrase, a word called, uh, "Karras"?

No, I haven't. What does that mean?

This is something I came across a few years ago. Um, the word "Karras," K-A-R-R-A-S-S, coined by Kurt Vonnegut, refers to a network or group of people that, unknown to them, are linked specifically to fulfill the will of God.

Yes.

Well, I think it's a rather wonderful, rather wonderful idea.

That is, that is. And I believe in the divine will of God. I mean, God is ultimately universe, is Creator, God is the field, is whatever you want to call it. It's all the same thing. And, uh, I remember being sat with Fergus having dinner before Christmas last year, and he told me about a friend of his, um, who had sat in the presence of God. He'd sat in the field, and he tried to describe to Fergus, um, the depth of the love that he felt and the way he chose to articulate it, which I think was particularly powerful. He said it was the love he felt was the— he felt the love felt greater than the love he had for his own children. And he didn't mean that in a bad way. But I almost fell off my chair. I said, Fergus, do you know what you've just said? He said, no, not really. I said, well, you don't have kids. Not— I wasn't being patronizing, but you don't understand the idea that you could feel love greater than the love you had for your children. That's mind-blowing to me. Um, so yes, the Divine Will of God is real. There are no coincidences. Everything has a wider purpose. Where everything is connected, everything is absolutely connected. And this is the problem a lot of people have. No, there are no problems. It's a challenge, a challenge to understanding. Because people will say, well, for instance, we were discussing yesterday, we have a mutual friend who I've just met, which is ridiculous. You know, I met the chap yesterday, you've known him quite a long time. Connections exist everywhere. And people say, well, it's coincidence. And I said, well, no, A, it's not, because I've lived this for several years. I can absolutely tell you there are no coincidences. But the one thing people underestimate is the power and ability of the divine intelligence that runs this show. Maybe hasn't run this particular show, as in the Earth plane, for some time, but it's always in control and always watching. But the sheer intelligence and ability to coordinate the affairs of 7.5 billion living humans and souls, plus everyone that is coming and has been should never be underestimated. So everything is connected, networks are being built because ultimately universe wants us to succeed because it wants us to create novelty. It wants us to create things that have not been before. And the universe has decided that the time is now, whether you call it the Age of Aquarius, whether you call it the Hopi prophecy, whether you call it the fourth turning, which is really a third dimensional term rather than fourth or fifth. Whether you call it the Great Awakening, whether you call it the Kali Yuga, they all basically mean the same thing. And that thing is, it is time now, and we are here to witness it, which is pretty fucking cool when you think about it. All of the times we could have incarnated, we've chosen to incarnate now to either take part in what's going on or to be— or to bear witness to what's going on. And as I say, I'm going to repeat myself, that's pretty fucking cool.

Couldn't you say that about any time in history though?

You could do, but this hasn't happened before.

What hasn't happened before?

Uh, the raising in consciousness, consciousness of the Earth, of the entire planet at one time. Plenty of interesting things have happened. Would I like to have seen the fall of Rome? Yeah. Would I have liked to have seen the Crusades? Apparently I have already. But to witness the wholesale raising in consciousness of an entire people. Now that's a hell of a thing.

Could that be described as the second coming, or is it that sort of event that was predicted in the Bible, or—

well, I think we've got to be careful with the Bible and religion in general, not because there isn't a lot of really good stuff there and a really— a lot of juice there to keep us going and keep us moving forward, but ultimately it's a product of, of man. And man is imperfect. And I don't mean man is fallen, um, I just mean that we come to this Earth, we're subject to mind control programming, we're subject to the control and curation of reality by parties that don't particularly have our best interests at heart. Um, do I think it's the second coming in terms of Jesus coming back? No. My personal instinct is the second coming is us realizing um, that what Jesus wanted was to tell us that we had all of the abilities that he had, all of the potential that he had, and that was to be found within. So ultimately, it's not about Jesus coming back. And this is just my opinion, um, one of the things we always make clear in the book is don't just stick yourself behind another figure of authority. Work it out for yourself, because ultimately the final arbiter of what is right and wrong will be felt within you and your body.. But my personal opinion is that it is not about the second coming of Christ. It's about, um, everybody understanding that Christ consciousness rests within all of us, um, if we want to find it and if we're willing to do the work and accept how just bally awesome we are.

I was struck on— I went on, I think, a total of 10 of those sort of freedom-type marches that started in around 2021. In London, and I'd never marched for anything before, but the, the whole COVID scam made me, um, get— put the real fire— put a real fire in my belly. And I was struck by, by two things. Uh, one of them was, uh, pointed out by a chap— I think this must have been Hyde Park— before we set off, and he was giving a sort of impromptu presentation, and he cited a— you may know the, the particular verse— but he cited a a piece from the New Testament which referred to, um, basically a warning that, like, the— you, you great men will be fallen because of their sorceries. And he pointed out that the Greek root word for sorceries was pharmakeia. I, and I'm thinking, well, that's quite, that's quite scary. And the other, the other thing that was— may even have happened at exactly the same time is I, I twigged. I used to think that, or used to believe that the words apocalypse and Armageddon were synonymous, but it has now become clear Armageddon means one thing and it refers to a sort of final climactic battle, whereas apocalypse, the, again, the original Greek translates to, um, unveiling, revealing, which I thought was absolutely fascinating because you hear the word apocalypse and you think it's the end of the world, but it's it's not. It's what we're experiencing now.

Yes, exactly this. We are going through the apocalypse. We are going through these events right now. And, um, you know, the Hopi believe if we don't get it right, it will be fire and brimstone and earthquakes and things and floods and things of that nature. But I, I don't believe that, um, ultimately. No, wrong. I don't know that. Ultimately, my knowing, um, is that we have already won., but it's up to us to put in the effort to realize that win and, and make it so. Um, do I think that, um, do I think that evil's here? Absolutely. Do I think that it is a coincidence that dark magic becomes pharmakeia? No, not at all. Um, I always struggle to remember quotes when I want to, uh, but who's the chappy who was big into free education? Great German thinker. Who am I thinking about? Steiner. Rudolf Steiner. There's a quote, I think it's in Fergus's book, around 1913-14, um, and it's him looking forward, channeling perhaps, to a time where some sort of medicine was used to dislodge people from their very souls. You know, what an awful thing, what an awful thought, what dark magic is this? But I have good friends who have helped people on to the next realm, who have taken the jab, and their souls have been caught. So on what dimension are we talking here? On what dimension are we fighting? On what dimension are we being fought over? This thing is multi-layered. Um, this thing is much more complicated than we believe. We're much more important than we believe. Um, and yes, there is a massive spiritual element to it. And the Bible is very useful in that. I can't work out whether it's, you know, some of it is the Old Testament part history, is the New Testament past self-help. There's loads in there that's very, very valuable and useful, um, but we have to understand, well, who has influenced what's in that book, you know, what, what's been put in there for political means.

I had an early, um, 180 degrees moment when Paul put me onto a documentary called Zeitgeist. Have you seen that? Yes.

Yes, I have. It was given to me by a friend to watch back in 1917. Sorry, well, perhaps it was— no, 2017— who was attempting to wake me up, but I resisted it at the time. I thought he was absolutely bonkers. But now I look back and think, yes, this is, this is truth. I should have paid attention to this a long, long time ago. But, um, we wake— well, we do things precisely when we're meant to. It's like Gandalf says, "A wizard is never early or late. He arrives precisely when he means to." And, uh, yes, I've seen it. I love it. Um, I loved it to an extent, but I wasn't ready to really hear what it had to say at that point in time.

Are you familiar with a guy called David A. Hughes?

No, I'm not.

So David A. Hughes, uh, he's recently been on, uh, you may know Solari, The Solari Report, Catherine Austin Fitts.

Yes, great one.

So he's, he's, he's been, he's, he's, he's moving in those circles now, but Uh, I'm trying to think where I first came across it. Probably also a client referred me to it, but, um, he, he, he's coined this phrase Omniwar, to the extent that we're actually fighting, or, or we're being fought over, maybe, because not everyone even accepts that they were at war at all. But there's a war taking place on multiple levels, so spiritual is, is one of them. Material is one, uh, health is one, uh, you know, psychology is one. I mean, it's— there are about 8 or 10 or 12 different layers to it, and it really, really started with, with COVID but this is manifesting itself in all kinds of different ways. Omni-war sounds to me about right, a good way of describing it, but it, it— I'm, I'm still frustrated by the people who who don't even challenge the COVID narrative yet. We've had 5 years for them to sort of work out what might be going on.

A lot of them probably just want to forget, which I understand. You know, you're, you're quite right. The system is set up to suppress us. We can't be— the old rules of warfare can't apply, you know, especially with the English, with the British. You know, we're so incredibly important that we, we can't be, we can't be suppressed by people taking us from our homes and being shot. They have to keep us docile. No, that's the way it's always been with the English. They have to win wars in different ways. Are we being fought over? Yes, we are. Are we being fought over for something to suppress us? Because when mobilized, when living in our full embodiment, will be incredibly dangerous. Well, absolutely. Is there something within us that's very valuable? Is there a code? Is there DNA, etc.? I've heard tell of that. I've spoken about about that with Fergus at length. But yes, there is a multi-generational effort going on to either suppress us, to destroy divinity within us. For what purpose, I'm not entirely sure, but I know it's happening. Um, Omniwar sounds to me— well, fifth generation warfare certainly doesn't describe it. Um, I think there are 12 dimensions, if I remember rightly. But we're in a forever war. We're in an Omniwar. It's for our souls, it's for our attention, it's for our frequency, It's for our future, it's for our children, it's for our free will, it's for our money, it's for our ability to create. Uh, all credit comes from our energy, so it's for that too. Um, it, it boggles the mind, um, but the key is not to ignore it and also not to be scared of it. And one of the things that religion did a long, long time ago was to take away, um, the idea of multiple lives. And if you take the idea that we're going to be back um, it, it makes everything that happens in this life that much more important. And not in the degree that you say, this is incredibly important, I'm going to fight for it, but in the degree, or with the idea, that this is so incredibly important, so I'm going to keep my nose clean, I'm going to stay safe, I'm going to stay fearful, I'm going to stay timid, because this is the only chance I get. And if I don't be a good boy, if I'm not a good boy in this particular life, I'm going to end up somewhere horrible. Once you key into the idea that you are, um, you are essentially— well, your energy, and energy never dies. Once you key into that, you're essentially unstoppable because you're no longer scared. The things I used to be scared of, I'm no longer scared of in any way, shape, or form. And can you imagine 5% of the world thinking in that way? Well, they can't— they can, which is why they're so bloody terrified of which is why an Omniwar is required. Because we get past that 5%, I'm not being a mathematician, I don't know the numbers that well, but once you get past a certain amount of humans who are fully embodied, well, we win and right quick. So they're right to be terrified. They're right to wage war in strategic terms, not moral terms, because once we get going, all bets are off.

There's a lot in this that I don't really understand. I've got to be honest with you, I'm not, I'm not sure, um, quite what we're talking about here. Um, maybe it's just me, but what is it? What exactly is going on? You're saying that when we understand our energy, what, what does that mean?

Well, we're energetic beings. So I'm, I'm going to state what I— I'm, I'm saying knowing, but for the purposes of this conversation, I'm going to say belief. Okay, just to temper that a bit. So my belief is we are energy. So what does that mean in the material world? What it means that we are energy, i.e., frequency, uh, vibrating at a very low, uh, well, we are energy vibrating at a very low frequency, which looks to us like that's something solid, something material. And to most people, that's all the world is. It's, it's dust. And we are, we are here for a short amount of time. When we're gone, the universe will continue. So if everybody died today, the Earth would continue. It would still be here, a material, a ball of dust and rock flying through, through the universe or the solar system or whatever. Now, if you flip that on your head and you see that we are energy and through our attention, through our intention, we're creating the universe through interactions with each other, through, uh, thoughts, through ideas, and applying our potential. If we all died, then everything would just disappear because we are creating the world as we go. And obviously, if we can create world, if we can create reality and create the world, then we're very similar to God. Now, my personal belief system is not that we are God, Ultimately, that's a, that's a satanic view, in my humble opinion. And that religion is ultimately anti-God, anti-creative, anti-pure. To say no God, we are the true God, we're humans, we are within this body— a lot of that is folded in the LGBTQ+ agenda. But what I believe is that God ultimately, at some point, became conscious of him or herself or itself. Um, and at that point said, you know what, if I know everything that has been, will be, and is, it's going to be a very boring, boring time because I'm going to live forever. Um, so he created— I'm going to say he because it works for me because I was brought up in, in the Christian faith— he created the universe as a way of exploring the limits of his own consciousness and created the universe, created the Earth for a great experiment where he has taken sparks of himself i.e., pure consciousness, place them in a body called a soul, place that soul within a, within a physical body, and sent us off scurrying around the Earth and the wider solar system to make shit happen. To make shit happen that he didn't realize could be done, to create novelty and explore the edges of a universe and his own consciousness. And that's basically what we're involved in. We're an experiment in finding the edges of God's own consciousness. Now, if you go back to the Gnostic creation myth, and when I may say myth, it's something that certainly I have sympathy to, Sophia decided that she would create humans, and she took, she took a bit of a spark of the divine, she put it within a body to create humans so they could scurry about doing this stuff for God. But the problem was that she didn't ask God for permission. And so it didn't quite take. And, uh, what she actually did was create something called the Demiurge, a false god. We might know him as Satan or any other. And he looked upon Earth and said, well, this is fantastic, I've obviously created this, not knowing that he was created and the Earth was created along with him. So that's why this reality, this Earth, this Earth plane is such a rum, uh, job, is because the god we thought we had is not God at all. It's, uh, quite dark. The Demiurge is obviously quite dark. And the thing about what he was and what he is and what he created is that he never had creative force. He never had that purity, that creative energy that we had. So when he tried to create humans, he didn't make a very good job of it until Sophia came back and gave us a spark of the divine. So the reason they hate us so— and they is up for discussion who they are, I've got lots of thoughts, many other people do— um, the reason they despise us so is because we have a connection to God. We can create. So what we're talking about ultimately is the realization that we are divine, that we are a spark of the divine, that we are a fractal of God put into a physical body via a soul to explore the edges of consciousness, to create novelty and create newness. And it's the process of understanding that and understanding that the Demiurge, or whatever word you want to use, or nomenclature or monarchy you want to use, is an evil force that has owned this realm for quite some time and has sought us— sought to beguile us from the understanding that we are perfect, we are creative, we are divine, in order to serve their own purposes. And, um, I think one of the— probably for me as well as you, Tim— one of the worst chapters in 180 Degrees, um, was where we start talking about Lush, this idea that we are beings of unlimited creative potential which makes us a battery or an energy source of some sort. And it starts to make sense when you track back to the Gnostic myth or creation story of the Demiurge. If they are cut off from God, if they have no disconnection, if they have no connection to God, then what do they require? They require life force. What's the only source of that in their backyard? Well, it's us. So the construction of the Matrix with this aspect of finance and debt slavery and media and pharmakeia and education and religion and all these things, you start looking at it simply as a construct to start siphoning energy from us, the whole thing gets very dark. But it's something we can break free from. And ultimately what we are talking about, certainly what I think I'm talking about, is the process of breaking free from that prison of the mind to become what we're meant to be, which is perfect expressions of Divine.

Couldn't you argue that this is just another story like the Bible, or like another religion that other people might think differently about? And, and another follow-up to that: if we think the universe as we've understood it is about 13.8 billion years old and humans have only been around for 300,000 years approximately, why Did it take that long to decide to do something like this?

Uh, well, answer the first question. Absolutely, I could be delusional. I could be building a cult just like everybody else has tried. Um, I'm stating things that I believe are truth. I'm doing it authentically without agenda. Um, why has it taken us so long? Um, ultimately, we're not us.

God, you, you're saying that God God got bored and decided to put, I think, consciousness within us, or, or some kind of, um, creation. And but he's, he's done that approximately 300,000 years ago when the universe is 13.8 billion years old. Why did he wait that long? Why, why does he put it into people and not anything else? And if you quite rightly say we all— the Earth was destroyed in an asteroid hit or something like that, what would he do then?

Uh, well, you have to ask him.

Well, okay, but I'm, uh, you know, I'm asking you as a person who seems to know a bit more about it.

Well, manifestly I don't know the answer, and as I said at the beginning, I'm not putting myself out as a figure of authority. Everything I've learned, or I think I've learned, over the past, what, 4 years, I've done from sources that are available to anybody else. So I don't want to tell people exactly what is happening. I'm putting out my proposition of what we're going through right now. Why is it happening now? For me, because God wills it. What does that look like? It looks like the Kali Yuga. It looks like the idea—

what is the Kali Yuga?

Sorry, just No, no, it's fine. The Kali Yuga is ultimately a concept in Hindu cosmology that posits that the position of the Earth relative to galactic center means that we have access or do not have access to certain energies. And if we have to accept the proposition that galactic center is basically where God lives, where the field is, where divine is, and the Kali Yuga tracks our behavior, our level of consciousness, Earth events, human politics, along with our access to galactic center.. And as we gain more access to galactic center and the energy and the divinity within, we start to wake up, we start to realize what's going on. And it tracks very well with the idea of the Great Awakening, because when we've started moving out of the Kali Yuga, the Dark Age, into the Bronze Age, um, in the middle of the 1600s. So what we're seeing now and feeling now is the beginning of the Bronze Age, the end of the Kali Yuga, the end of the Dark Age, and we're beginning to access energies from Galactic Center such that we are waking up to the true nature of the world, the true nature of us, and the idea that we've been suppressed for this long.

One thing that comes out for me from this conversation is that language is actually pretty tricky stuff. Yes, because we're trying to express thoughts or feelings or beliefs or whatever you want to call them using words which, which start fairly quickly to reveal their complete inadequacy of the task at hand.

Yeah, I completely agree. And as much as I like the book we've written, as much as I think it's a weapon in a war, it's an aid to understanding, um, I think history will judge it as, you know, wholly inadequate for the task at hand. Um, it's not that we're making this up as we go along, but we are re-understanding and relearning ideas and concepts which were probably as normal to us as talking about what we're going to do with our day over the breakfast table. So yes, words are incredibly important, more important than we would suspect. And this comes back to Pharmakeia, to spelling, to word magic, things of that nature. You know, government, what does that mean? Govern, to control, ment, mind. So what's a government for? It's to control our minds. If someone can control our minds, they can control our behavior and level of frequency. So yes, there's a lot of work to do. And as I say, I don't put myself out as somebody who knows it all. I know almost less than nothing. Um, but to me, this is something that's inescapable. You know, this is affecting us all, uh, whether we choose to, um, understand it or not, whether we choose to believe it or not. It's going to get everybody, which by the way is a good thing. Um, but when we— the process I went through to lose my preconceived beliefs and ideas, I think fundamentally was a very healthy one because it allowed me to take on ideas which were fantastic and fanciful and bizarre and crazy and look at them on their own merits and compare them with my understanding and experience of the world. And that's been a very— that's been a scary process, but ultimately— for me, a positive process, because everything's a lot easier for me now. When you accept that you are divine, when you accept that there's a plan, when you accept that there's no coincidence, when you accept that this isn't our only incarnation, when you accept that we have creative ability, when you accept that we have agency and sovereignty over our lives, everything becomes easier. And the wonder is when people start to kind of come up there with you and start enjoying life.

Isn't that just— isn't that just being stoic?

And, uh, I would say I'm gonna— I'm gonna level with you, Paul. I don't know stoicism particularly well, but my intuition is that stoic is about adversity and being your best self in the face of adversity.

Well, Tim, you can give a great explanation of it very simply.

Please do. Oh, sorry, you're asking me to, or you?

No, no, no, Tim, I think you just have.

Oh, right, okay. Well, for me, that is, that, that's dealing with adversity, and we all will always have adversity. But the way I see adversity is engaging with resistance to grow. Um, so 2024, as I said, was a bit of a crunchy year. All sorts of things happened, and I remember I remember a particularly vile experience of looking in my wife's eyes and realizing that there were two, two of them in there, but one, and one of them wasn't my wife. And I looked at her, we're having an argument about various things which I won't bore you with, um, but I remember asking God for the opportunity to rehabilitate myself in the eyes of my wife. And I said, God, if you can put me in a situation where I can prove to my wife and a good man, I will serve you forever. And, um, you know, various things happened. She ended up in hospital. I was a single parent for a time. It was quite difficult. Um, the boy wasn't very healthy when he came out. Um, but one day she walked into the kitchen and said, uh, Ben, you are a remarkable man, and I don't know anyone who could have done this. And it struck me then, a, that bad times create good men, which we all know and is a Stoic idea which I, I ascribe to and I like. But it also struck me that if God wanted us to have courage, he wouldn't just give us courage, he would give us events that caused us to develop it ourselves. Um, so I don't really know what question I'm answering at this point, um, but for me, adversity isn't something that we have to live with and put up with and base a belief system around that putting up with. Um, it's something that engages us, resistance helps us grow so we can become who we're meant to— and as I keep saying ad nauseam, incredibly boring— that we're a spark of the divine with unlimited creative potential. We're a spiritual being having a physical experience, and we are basically awesome.

Well, you might remember we had a guy, Hugh Wilbourne, um, on a couple of years ago, and he'd written a book, The Bug in Our Thinking. And I seem to recall having, having read that, that he does address this issue of language, that in other words, we're trying to We're trying to convey concepts and ideas and thoughts using, frankly, what in, in terms of words, what are pretty brute, pretty blunt tools.

Yeah, yeah, it's like quantum physics. It's quantum physics. It does not describe what quantum, um, quantum mechanics is actually talking about, you know, the whole I don't know if you know the experiment of, um, the, the photon of light that goes through two slots.

Two slits.

Yeah, exactly. And the actual problem is our language, that we can't actually explain what's going on properly. But it is— it's kind of understood what's happening, even though it's— I've quoted it incorrectly sometimes by saying when we look at something, it affects it, and that's what, what people put on YouTube. But there was an explanation that basically said that it's just the language that we are using is not correct for what is happening, and we can't— we don't have the language, which is kind of really strange anyway.

Yeah, and frustrating. And, and this is why people flock to individuals like Jordan Peterson, because he's so very good at explaining things that we, as you say, Paul, we we kind of hold within us. We kind of know what's going on, but we can't quite bring out the words that describe it adequately. But someone like Jordan Peterson is incredibly good at that, the granular use of language to explain the kind of ineffable. And I suppose that's part of the process that we're going through, that words will become— they will have more utility, they will be more fit for purpose. And this process of I suppose, building the common sense and the common knowledge that once you start talking about things openly, people realize they've been holding the same view within them for a long time. And I'm getting slightly off topic, but, you know, stuff like LGBTQ and, you know, Drag Queen Story Hour, you know, we all know these are bad things, but we're scared of expressing it for being canceled or being vilified. And I always remember, do you guys know Cliff High? C-L-I-F, new word, High. Have you heard of him?

I've heard of him. I couldn't tell you what he did.

Ultimately, first he did a lot of drugs and then he realized that humans had powers of prescience so they could predict the future. And he realized when we had a non-suppressed internet that this could come out in the choice of words. So he put together a large language learning model. I think that's a thing. And it would trawl the internet for instances of out-of-context words, you know, using the word military and a gardening forum, things of that nature. And he collected all of these words, he graded them by emotional intensity, and he turned it into usable data. And using this data, he predicted when Bitcoin would go to $4. He predicted 9/11. He predicted various other things and it's a very good way of ultimately viewing the future. So where am I going with this?

He must be very rich.

He's incredibly rich. He doesn't worry about money in any way, shape or form, mostly crypto-based. But where were we and why were we talking about this? What was the last thing we were talking about before I mentioned Cliff High?

We're talking about language.

Talking about language. Now, where was I going with this? Ultimately, you know what, I've completely forgotten where I was going. I do this on occasion. I get myself into a conversational cul-de-sac and it stops to everyone's great annoyance and frustration.

It's fine. We can edit it. So don't worry. Just take a moment.

Oh no, it's fine. Don't worry about editing it. It'll come back to me at some point. Somebody say something smart and erudite and we can, we can crack on with something else.

Well, I, I was going to ask the question about, um, if there is a God and he is— it's a classic Bible question, but it does— look, I'm not, I'm not— I, I share the kind of view that you have about the Bible, that it's written by a man and therefore men, or, and it's been politically uh, it's been changed actually a lot, I'm discovering. Um, but let's not, let's not go— I mean, like, for example, the church wasn't interested in marriage for 1,000 years, right? And then suddenly they are interested for various reasons. A lot of what's in the Bible has been incorrect about the Earth being the center of the universe, all that sort of stuff. So, but let's put that technical stuff to one side. If there is, I, to a certain extent, maybe lesser or, or more on a spectrum people feel spiritual, whether they feel not at all, everything's science, we're here and we're gone, or they believe in a certain amount of things happen for a reason, there's more to this life, there has to be. I mean, if the more we think about it, if you've ever just stopped to think about what's going on, you have to realize that there is this massive paradox that we exist, and the fact that we exist The fact that anything exists, anything and everything is—

the odds are against it.

No, no, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. The fact that anything exists at all, at all— the table, the metal, the sun, you— but anything, any atom, any tiny thing, any large thing, any black hole— the fact that it exists If, if you stop, just think about that for, for a few minutes, you start to actually go, maybe, I don't know, slightly— it feels slightly weird because then you realize that it has to have come from somewhere. And I don't mean it's come from the center of a star because that's where we've come from. I mean, everything has to have come from something and now it exists. And then if there's a God, somebody must have made that God, because that God can't have been suddenly created. Even if you believe in a God, it's that paradox that keeps going back and back. Who created the God that created the God that created the God?

It just keeps going.

I'm not sure we can resolve this necessarily because our brains may not be up to the task. But, but which is why I keep, I keep coming back to this line from— I think it's Hamlet, which is, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. There are some things you literally can't explain, because in the same way that the human eye is only capable of seeing a tiny fraction of the actual spectrum of visible stuff, um, it seems plausible that if that's a, a, um, an amazing limitation on one of our senses, then what's to stop all of them being equally inhibited?

But that's, that's true, but that's still not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that that what you're saying is it's a, it's a problem of not being able to see or analyze, which is different to saying—

well, and also mentally processed, perhaps using what, what, what's in the human brain.

But what I'm saying is very simple and very easy to understand. It's not complicated. It's— it— take any object that exists, any object, not, not all, but you could say to all, but any object object, how did it come into existence? How— where did— where were the atoms that created that object? They must have been created somewhere. Even if they've been changed, they had to be created. How was that created? And how, how can we even understand that? That's a paradox.

To me, it's not a paradox. Well, my assumption is that God wasn't created. God has always been there, whether you call it the field.

But isn't that, isn't that called the steady state theory?

But that's scientific terms. But that, that's what it is.

But that can't be true.

Why?

That can't be true because, well, well, I'm about to explain.

Yeah, I'm coughing using the word why. Sorry, Paul, please.

It's okay. Um, it can't be true in the sense that that's just— that's a circular argument. Um, it's, it's not— you— the why is because that— because some— something cannot be created from nothing. That's, that's why. That's why for me it's a paradox.

Where does an idea come from?

Yeah.

No, but you see, again, that's a, that's a different idea. That's a different, um, that's, that's, that's a different process. That's like saying, like, for example, I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast where one guy was saying that actually every thought we have— as a musician, I know that I come up with music ideas, they come out of nowhere.

I don't— you think, you think you come up with them, maybe the universe comes up with them.

Exactly. Well, that's exactly what I was about to say. Perhaps they are being— this guy's idea, which is pretty damn crazy, is that they're being transmitted to us and we're picking them up like radio waves, right? Totally crazy idea. But who knows? I don't know. That could be true. But that still doesn't explain where we came from. So there was a story that I'm going to say that's probably not quite correct in the way it was told to me because I can't remember it. It was a long time ago, a few years ago. But there was this story of this man who, who picked up some earth and created, uh, created life with it and said to God, look, God, I've created life. And God turned around and said, no, you've got to start with your own earth. And that, that is the point I'm trying to make. It's like you've got to start with nothing at all and create something. You can't start with— you can't start with a, a tree and make a table. You have to start with nothing and make a table. That's what we're dealing with here. And also understand, have a brain capable of understanding it.

So for our regular listeners, we may need to suddenly start talking about gold and silver and Bitcoin just to get back onto sort of like more measured territory.

But just before we do that, I wanted to ask a question about the idea of if this evil is pervading the world, and I'm not saying it's not, I'm just saying, um, if it is, and, and there is evidence of it, and there's evidence of incompetence, and there are evidence of very evil people, and people can be very evil, and we just don't know what, what's driving it.

But well, we know what psychopaths are.

Yeah, exactly.

What is it that God is not doing Um, just why can't just God stop it? I mean, that was my— going to be my original question about the Bible says— the argument that people say to, to people who are religious, you know, why doesn't— if God's all-powerful, why doesn't he just kill the devil, right?

It's free will. But we don't have free will if we, uh, live in a perfect world where nothing can ever go wrong.

Yeah, but why doesn't God do it? Why doesn't God make it happen?

Maybe God calls upon us to do it.

Maybe he is making it happen right now. And that's exactly the process that we're talking about.

Okay.

He's acting through us. If you come back to the idea that he's creating novelty, where's the fun in— it's like when you get to the end of Red Alert 2, Command and Conquer. You've got all the units and you can create at will. You've got all the tanks. The whole thing becomes suddenly quite boring, doesn't it? And if you're looking at this as a great cosmic experiment, just getting the power up, um, to wipe all the evil off the board. Well, that's not much fun. That doesn't achieve anything. That doesn't create novelty. That doesn't allow God to explore the edges of his own consciousness. Uh, ergo, he's, he's not going to take that route, but he will act through us in order to achieve that. And I said, for me, that's the point of what you just said. You've got to create with your own earth. Is that it's the change has to come through us.

There's a jokey kind of story that I'm probably going to mangle because I tend to mangle most things. And it's about a guy who is in a house and then his house gets overwhelmed by a flood. And someone goes past on a canoe and says, pop in here and I'll save you. And the guy goes, no, no, God will save me. And then someone goes by in a helicopter and says, I'll take you to safety. And he goes, no, no, no, he goes, God will save me. And then ultimately the, the flood water engulfs him and he drowns. So he goes to heaven and then says to God, why didn't you act? And he— and God says, well, I sent a canoe, I sent a helicopter.

Yeah, it's a wonderful one. I, I know that as the, uh, the train, the careering train story, uh, with, uh, from The West Wing, the Democratic president that never was, which I now look back on, realize was mind control. But yeah, 100%. I mean, even to the extent of— a friend of mine was remote viewing Boris Johnson's office before he resigned, and, uh, what she said was her biggest takeaway from that exercise was that she could hear Boris's soul screaming. Because even though we can see him as a very dark figure, a compromised figure, or whatever, um, everybody has their part to play, and that that he perhaps was there to create resistance to get us to grow. Um, I was told that COVID-19 was created by the light in order to wake up humanity. And I get that. I, I get that something that brought so much pain and dislocation and loneliness and misunderstanding and all those sorts of things was created as a device such that we might start to question the true nature of the world and those set above us. Um, it's— for me, and it's worth looking at and looking at it as a thought experiment— it's about the first hermetic principle of mind, that everything starts as a thought within the mind of the Creator or ourselves. And that's ultimately where everything comes from, how a tree is turned into a chair. But I suppose there are two things I want to say. The first is I don't agree, uh, that everything has to start with something in the sense that everything has to come from nothing. My presupposition, which feels right to me, is that there exists a field of energy that everything comes from, and that has always been there. It wasn't created, it was just always, always there. And the second, which I'm just going to have to bring up from the memory banks because I did a lot of drugs in the Norse is that, um, God ultimately subs down his creative abilities to us, and it's our job to take that, um, that matter, that earth, that clay, and turning into some— turning it into something wonderful, wondrous, and magical.

I, I've definitely noticed that— how can I put it— if you, if you really pay attention to what's going on you, you notice, you notice things happening. You notice coincidences. You notice, if you think about them, you notice meetings and, and people that you meet and paths that you go down. And, you know, I might sound very skeptical in the way I'm talking to you, but I'm actually— I describe myself much more as spiritual or open to the spiritual side of things because I recognize that you— there's so much that we can't explain. But there's so much that actually happens in a way that makes sense in retrospect, you know, things that you thought were really bad at the time that actually ended up being a positive in your life and things like that. And, um, you know how, you know how you get this weird thing with algorithms and YouTube and you think, um, what, what it's— you might have said something or and then you get an advert about it. Yeah, right.

Well, there's the hell out of me.

Yeah, but I've, I've had thoughts about things that I wanted to, to look at and then not, not said them to anybody and then see them come up on the YouTube algorithm. And I've gone, that is, there is no way, because I haven't said that to anybody. I was just thinking about something, something really kind of random. And then it came up on my YouTube algorithm.

I was like, why find Neuralink?

Well, something else that actually made me, made the hairs on my arms stand up. Two days ago, I'm creating an audiobook, by the way, or I'm producing an audiobook. I'm actually just going through the book for the person and doing the audio production. And I thought the other day I just opened up my app, turned to an app that I haven't used in, in years. It's the Libby app. Pressed on it, said 180 Degrees by Fergus O'Connor Greenwood. My eyes went straight to the person who read it, Ben Hawkes. I was like, what?

That's—

yeah, he's coming on our pod. That's— and I was gonna— my first question to you was going to be, did you read that book?

And it was like— I did. I was sent a copy by a friend.

Well, yeah, I mean, you said it right at the beginning. I was trying to— I was waiting for a moment to jump in to say that at that point, but we kind of moved on to other things. But talk about really weird coincidences.

Well, what's really interesting talking to you, Paul, is you're manifestly intellectually more able than I am. Um, and listening to a, a lively mind, um, trying to intellectualize this kind of ineffable stuff that we've been talking about is a) really interesting and great to kind of listen and watch, as it were, but also comes back to a point we've made that if, if words are inadequate to describe what's going on, then perhaps even the best brains among us right now are inadequate to even intellectualize what's going on and to kind of wrap it into third or fourth dimensions and to kind of grapple for meaning and grapple for solutions and understandings in the way that we're used to thinking about things and I know people who say that thinking is the problem because thinking is very much a kind of localized thing. It's an ego-based thing. And maybe it's that we should feel, and instead of trying to wrap our heads around it, wrap our heart around it. Um, but yeah, it's been, it's been really interesting kind of listening to a brain much more able than mine, um, kind of wrapping logic around it. And I honestly, I've, I've just made peace with the idea a lot of it isn't logical. But then then you go back to the idea, or the assumptions that I am making, of the assumptions I'm making, that anyone listening to this might think you're delusional because you're saying things which are crazy and you're treating them like absolute truth. I'm treating them like absolute truth because I've seen things and felt things and experiencing— experienced things which tell me that this way is the way. And it's not my way, it's all of our way. That it doesn't matter that it opposes the reasonable and logical principle that everything must come from something, to say that everything already existed but it just existed in a different form. And that all of the chair I'm sitting on, the desk I'm sitting at, that you guys are as well, is simply a product of that chi, that field, that energy, that God, that divine. You know, I suppose, um, there's nothing you've said which I've taken exception to at It's just I think we differ on the idea that something has to come out of nothing. I don't think it does. I think it was already there. Yeah, it just had to be turned into something else.

I just don't really— I don't really understand it. That's, that's all.

I wonder whether this is a variation on the theme of the fact that we all want certainty, but absolute certainty is impossible, but it's unsatisfactory. And so I, I would cite, not for the first time, Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari, who before he lost his mind and went completely mad, wrote quite a good book. And the thing I liked about the book was that he basically— he wrote— have you read Sapiens, Ben?

No, I haven't. When I, when I came to it, I thought, no, I'm not going anywhere near that because of the, the identity of the author.

Sure. Well, I'll cut to the chase. What I appreciated about it was one of the things he sets out to answer is You know, there were originally 5 or 6 versions of ancient man. So Homo habilis, Homo australiensis, Homo neanderthalensis, et cetera, et cetera. What is it about Homo sapiens that caused us to beat all the others in the evolutionary stakes? And his answer is, or his suggested answer is, our love of narrative, our love of storytelling, which became a driving force in human survival. And I do find that an intriguing one, an intriguing idea. And part of it is, is the idea that if we don't— we want— we all want answers to things, or some of us do. And if we can't come up with an answer, we'll come up with a story, and the story is maybe almost as good. So we're telling each other stories all the time in the desperate evasion of uncertainty.

Yes. No, I agree. It's a It's a good way of looking at things. Um, I, I suppose I, I've got to a point where I don't need to know what's going to happen next. I just trust that whatever happened next, next, it will be for my, for my good, whether that's quote unquote good or bad, or perceived as good as bad, or good as bad. It will be for my growth. Um, so do I need to— Inshallah. Yeah, to an extent. And, and if you've If you've kind of driven in the rush hour in Cairo, you'll know exactly what that means, um, to abandon yourself to your fate. But I don't think it's abandoning yourself to your fate, it's taking sovereign and sovereign agency over what happens to you. And you do your damnedest to create the world that you want to see, but ultimately you surrender to the idea that there is a driving force behind it. That driving force is good, that driving force has our back,, and that driving force that wants us to have a good experience because that serves it and its experiment and its want and its need to create novelty, etc., etc.

Man's Search for Meaning was one that Tim had recommended, uh, which is a, uh, an incredible book as well. I don't know if you've read that.

I haven't. I will now.

Okay.

No, that is Victor Frankl is the author who survived multiple death camps during the Second World War and he lost his entire family. And he was a psychiatrist of, or psychologist of some type, and he managed to turn that experience into a positive philosophy. So effectively, spoiler alert, but effectively he sort of, he, he rather elegantly answers the question of what is the meaning of life by saying the meaning of life is to seek the meaning in life.

That, my head has gone into a circular alert. I'm gonna have to sit with that one.

Well, when you read it, you'll understand it. It's— it makes sense. And, and actually, I think it's, it's interesting that when we see friends or maybe family suffering with problems that they have, and you go back and think about that book, it leads me to another person who, who said that their belief was that we're all put here to learn a lesson, and it's the universe— in their opinion, it's the universe trying to teach us something, and we have to be open to being taught that lesson in order to—

under a Labour government, God, are we, are we getting that lesson?

I think it's about, uh, the greatest dark is just before the dawn. Well, that's my feeling about this particular government. That if you could design a government that would wake the sleeping lion of the English and the British people, it would be led by Keir Starmer, backed ably by Rachel from Accountant.

It is quite phenomenal, isn't it? I mean, it's— for Labour to have got in, um, given how much negative press and, and opinion about government and the Conservatives beforehand, and then to watch them as the supposed adults flounder, miss public opinion, U-turn, have to resign because of scandals. And then even today, Tim and I were just talking about the Jess Phillips— Jess Phillips situation. Just, I mean, it's just phenomenal.

It is. But it, it only doesn't make sense if you're if you are framing it within the incompetency theory that they just don't know what they're doing. And if you take the helicopter view and think about, well, Keir Starmer was the chairman of the, I forget the name of the organization, but there were two socialist—

Fabians?

No, there was even more specific than that. There were two clubs for barristers who were socialists during the '80s and '90s, and he was chairman of the most vociferous one. He spent a summer in the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia at the time, motorcycling and understanding what a perfect communist world looks like.

Yeah, there was a motorcycling— some kind of vague allusion to some kind of bizarre sexual practice. No, no, you do with Ukrainian rent boys. No, I'm talking about, uh, spend the weekend— you spend the weekend motorcycling around Ukraine, possibly.

Did you say 2 or 3? Because I think there's 3 now.

I think it's 3.

Yeah, but if you work for the Trilateral Commission, as I believe he does, What's your job? Your job is to get Great Britain back into the Eurozone. And how do you do that? Well, you crash your economy, you cause it to have to go to the IMF with its hat in its hand, and the IMF will say, well, you can have your loan, but you have to rejoin the European Union.

But you'll also have to wait until we've bailed out France.

Yes, indeed.

We won't have any money by then, so.

Oh, it's very, very clear, isn't it, that they, A, didn't want this to happen, B, have not really done anything to, to take the advantage that being outside the European Union should have afforded. C, have created even more red tape to make the people who are angry about us leaving even more angry. It's just, it's just phenomenal.

Have you seen Alastair Williams' brief skit, the Brexit Burger King?

No.

Oh no, I remember you talking about it.

Yeah. He had to be canceled because it made such absolute sense and made everybody on both sides of the political aisle laugh their tits off. And that's essentially why he was canceled, because he had the power to bring people together through comedy. I interviewed him about 2 years ago. He's a really good lad.

It's, it's for anyone that hasn't seen it, it's very funny. So it's basically got 12 people in the Burger King and someone says, I want to leave this Burger King. Anyone else want to leave? And like 7 of them say, yeah, I want to leave. And then someone else gets up and says, I know what, I'll have a word with the manager, I'll get us out of Burger King. She— and she comes back 2 years later and says, it's going to cost us 40 billion, but we'll be able to leave Burger King. And then someone else says, well, we actually have left Burger King. And goes, well, no, but if anyone asks us, we can say, oh yeah, we've left Burger King.

And, and the thing with leaving the European Union, all the predictions that were made beforehand, if you go back— and we had a political commentator on, I remember, can't remember her name now, it's just gone out my head, but we had it. She was very much pro staying in the European Union, and she was saying that she was comparing our stock markets to other stock markets and the pound and all that sort of stuff. And we were saying, look, all the predictions are going to be wrong. The markets will go up and sterling will be fine. And it will not, despite everything that they've tried to do, the economy has been been pretty damn resilient. And that's down to businesses being able to deal with the additional problems. And it's not anything to do with some amazing job that the government's done. But the whole fearmongering beforehand, people should just go back and look at the headlines of what they were saying would happen if Brexit would happen. And if that's ever an indication of political lies, Right, we haven't capitalized on it. The government hasn't capitalized on it in the way that they should, and they're, they're dropping the ball left, right, and center.

Well, I'd go further and accuse them of treason, frankly, because they're, they're not just not obeying the will of the public, they are actively thwarting it.

Yeah, exactly. They don't— they just didn't really want it to happen, and they really do want to fold us back into the European Union. And what you're saying there is, is no— wouldn't surprise me at all.— if, if this is— this is— if the next crisis is used as an excuse.

But we have to remember who MPs are. They're not employees, they're office holders. That's how they get away with expensing so much. And if you're an office holder, you have to have an oath. There has to be an oath of office. And if you break your oath of office, if that oath is said to the public, then that is treason. So we, we are— it is incumbent on us to talk about this in those terms and not to forgive it until we really have to forgive it. And that's something people don't really like me talking about because we're going to have to forgive a lot of people if we're going to get out of this with our souls, um, unblemished. But treason is the word that I would use. They've been given a mandate and they've gone against it, and they're not for us, they're against us, and they're doing things that we have not asked and they're not doing it because they're incompetent. They're doing it because they're following orders.

Yeah, mic drop.

Yeah, definitely a mic drop moment.

Um, I thought the internet had just dropped out.

No, no, I was, I, I was just, I was thinking about a kind of Brexit-type story to tell you, but I was, I was thinking maybe it would just be a bit too long.

But it's just, well, I'm just glad we never had that super gonorrhea that they were warning us about.

Were they warning us about super gonorrhea? Oh, as a consequence of Brexit?

Yeah, yeah. End of—

It stands to reason, really.

Is it something about Romanian cleaners not being able to clean toilet seats? Something of that nature?

I don't know about that.

Donald Tusk, didn't he say it's the end of Western civilization as we know it?

He did.

Probably.

He said it would be the end of Western civilization as we know it.

Well, it depends what you mean by we, doesn't it? Because when you look at American political discourse, when they talk about our democracy, 'He's a danger to our democracy,' Orange Man bad. Our democracy is being fought.

Yeah, our democracy as opposed to your democracy.

Exactly this. The control system we've put in place for the last couple of hundred years is at threat. So yes, it depends what you mean by, who you mean by we and what you mean by what is under threat.

Well, the pound was going to crash, the stock market was going to crash, it was going to be economic chaos. Didn't the Bank of England say that?

I'm sure they did, but I'm sure they did. I don't remember that specifically, but that's the script, right?

That's, that's the script. Yeah, it's like, you've got to vote, but we will do everything, we will use every medium and all the media power we've got to say we should remain, but we're going to give you the option to leave, which is— I don't even know why, why create a vote and then, then do that. It's just, just madness in itself.

That's what bastards do.

Yeah, it is what bastards do. And David Cameron had to do it ultimately to save the Tory Party. If he didn't do it, the whole thing just would have fallen apart.

And the irony is it's blown it up anyway.

Indeed. Isn't part of it again, you know, if you've— and we're having a— we're having— well, I'm quite enjoying this because I don't talk about politics much, and I'm doing it with two well-credentialed people who understand the subject. But I suppose what I want—

that's Tim, not me.

Well, I'm not I'm just casting around to see who he might possibly be referring to, but anyway.

Looking around the Zoom room, who can he be talking to? But I suppose one of the things I could bring with my small brain but wide consciousness is that if you kind of jump up a dimension and look at it from the spiritual warfare perspective, it all makes sense. You know, like we were saying, I was saying with absolute certainty, Starmer works for the Trilateral Commission. Trilateral Commission are part of the government. The true government, and he's being given his orders. It kind of makes sense if you look at it from a cynical third-dimensional perspective. For me, it makes absolute sense. But then you look at it from a fifth-dimensional perspective and think, well, again, we come back to bad experiences having good outcomes because it causes us to engage with difficulty and grow. You know, what would be— what are we being caused to do and to feel and act upon by being put through the economic collapse that's about to come?

There's a line— sorry to cut in, uh, Ben— there's a line I keep getting drawn to, which is, uh, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

Yes, absolutely. Well, this is the, um, this is the power of now idea, that it's simply our thoughts cause suffering because our thoughts give us the perspective on events. And if we choose to see them as bad, they're always going to be bad. What I've come to, the conclusion I've come to, is the only choices we really have are how do we react to events, i.e., what decisions do we take on the opportunities presented to us by universe, um, what thoughts do we choose to bring, are they positive or negative, um, and what frequency do we embody. Because the universe is ultimately a mirror of what we're feeling inside. You know, try it, try it tomorrow if you want to. If you, if you start the day badly, your day is going to end badly. You know, if you start the day by being mean to someone, the universe is going to throw that shit right back at you. So I think what's interesting is to start viewing events in the third dimension, the fourth dimension, and the fifth dimension. You know, think of it as what's going on right now. What's the politics? How is our system administered? What does the affairs of humans look like in the context of a third-dimensional government? An economy and NGOs and things of this nature. Well, let's go up a bit. What does it look like from a spiritual warfare perspective? You know, if there are people acting upon those in power, what would it cause them to do? What would the outcome be? Is COVID-19 a good thing or a bad thing? Manifestly in the third dimension is bad, but in the fourth, is it good because it's causing us to wake up?

When you talk about these dimensions, um, just for people who— I mean, i.e., me— what we know what dimension we're in, but when you say fourth, do you mean on an unconscious level, or what, what is it?

The way that I choose to define it, um, which makes sense to me, is that the third dimension is the dimension of material, of the solid, of what we would call reality. The fourth dimension is the dimension of energy and emotion, um, of different entities acting upon us, our energy, our emotional body. I'm a big believer that when we come to the realization that there are multiple good and bad entities interfering with us and interacting with us on a minute-by-minute basis, if we can understand that and not go crazy, then we've got a really good basis to evolve how we see the world and our consciousness, etc., etc. So where the spiritual battle is fought for us, for our souls, is in the fourth dimension. That's the, that's the kind of dimension of clairaudience and claircognizance of Feeling bad, feeling good, of emotions, of frequency, of thought forms, et cetera, et cetera. And the fifth dimension is basically just God, the field, as it were. I'm told there is a sixth and a seventh and an eighth and a ninth and a twelfth and stuff. But that's how I view it. Third dimension is right down here in the weeds, duking it out with the physical. Uh, the fourth dimension is the, uh, realm of energy, uh, the realm of emotion, the realm of thought forms, the re— the, the realm of us creating our experience through the way we view the world and the frequency we choose to embody. And the thoughts we choose to have and the quality of those thoughts. And the fifth dimension is where everything goes clear, you know, where Jesus lived.

There's a theory that we, we're living in a holographic universe, and that, that's gaining traction. And I'm not going to explain it because I don't really understand it, but I, I get some form of concept of what it, what it is. And it's, um, it's extremely weird, but it does explain why you can get two entangled particles and have them more than, um, many light years apart, and yet when you effectively know the spin of one, the other one's revealed immediately. And it's a paradox because Einstein said that information can't travel faster than the speed of light, but effectively it is traveling faster than the speed of light. And he called it spooky action at a distance because he said it just can't— this can't be right. It must have been entangled. So if you entangle two particles, he said they must, must kind of know at the start that which is which, and it's only when you look at one it reveals the other. Um, and the only— we know this happens, we don't understand why. It's a paradox. But this whole holographic universe suggests that the reason why that information can travel so fast is because effectively we are— what we're seeing is being projected from a different plane, and on the, on the, on the other plane, the distances aren't that far apart, so information can travel. It's, it's kind of really weird, and I'm possibly not explaining it properly, but and maybe I've misunderstood it as well.

So I'd suggest— No, I don't think you have. I don't think you've missed it. I don't think you misexplained it. I think you've explained it very ably. But it's the, I mean, even Einstein, perhaps his brain wasn't big enough to cope with the idea that things could act at the distance, at such a distance such that the distance was actually nothing, that you and I in energetic terms are sitting right next to each other. Yeah. Multiple timelines are acting out at the same time. You know, these sorts of ideas which are small or large brains, whether we do, we don't know how to use them, um, have trouble wrapping our heads around. You know, perhaps that's part of the process we're going through at the moment. I've recently had one of the most bizarre experiences I've ever had in my entire life, um, around past lives and things of that nature. And, um, when I finished 180, or I thought I finished it, turned out. There were 6 or 7 finishes which were full summits because Fergus is a very, uh, hard taskmaster, bless him. Um, to celebrate one, I, I sat with an energy healer in the, uh, in, at the desk that I'm sitting at now. And with a straight face, she said to me, well, there are some reptilians in your office. I'm going to have to clear them. Which kind of makes sense because I went through Chapter 9, Rupture Not Rapture. I started to feel hands around my throat and I couldn't speak after 15 minutes. That chapter took me about 3 or 4 days. It wasn't much fun. And I'm looking at the piece of paper with the notes that I made. She told me that there were curses that needed to be reversed, and I had to clear them such that they wouldn't get passed on to my children. I ignored it at the time because I was in a world of hurt for a variety of reasons, but it made sense, um, last— well, it made sense a couple of months ago when I was having a conversation, a spirited one, with my wife about money. And she was worried about a certain government agency that deal with taxes. And we were having a conversation about what my potential obligations meant, and I was fighting fire with fire and logic, or non-logic with logic. And I called up a friend who'd helped me, um, I alluded earlier to an experience I had when I looked at her and saw more than two entities within her. I called up a friend who helped me with that situation, and she thought about it, and then she phoned me up and said, Ben, I think I've worked it I said, brilliant, go ahead. And she said, well, it's to do with past lives. I was like, fuck, okay, the world's about to change. And she told me that in a past life that my wife— me and my wife had had, um, I'd been the cause of her going into a debtor's prison. And she died in that debtor's prison with her two children. They weren't my children in that life. So I had called in a debt of a third party. That third party called in a debt on her. She'd ended up in a debtor's prison. That's where she died. And that's where her absolutely elemental and unexplainable fear of authority in the form of a tax authority came from. I thought, well, that makes sense. And it made more sense when I realized that there was a debtor's prison a mile from our house, and we walked past it all the time. Um, so I said to my dear friend, what are we going to do about it? Um, because I'm up for anything, and it was something that was, you know, making our family lives difficult. So she said, well, you've got to meditate into the guilt 'You've got to write a letter and then burn it and all this sort of stuff.' I said, 'That's fine.' And I said, 'Well, I'm just one part of this. What does my wife do?' So she said, 'I need to have a conversation with her.' So she had a conversation with my dear wife and said, 'You have to do the same thing. You need to forgive your husband for what he did in that past life when he wasn't a husband. You have to write him a letter telling him what a fink he is and then burn it. And you have to go to where you're buried and you have to lay flowers down.' down. So she didn't tell me any of this before the fact, but she went off one afternoon and came back. And I said, where have you been? She said, well, I've been to the mass burial ground by the workhouse. So what did you do there? So, well, I took 3 posies of flowers and I gave a pair to our daughter and said, um, she said to our daughter quite plainly, listen, in a past life I was buried here and I had children like you, and they're buried here too. And what I want you to do is find their graves and lay these flowers down. So my daughter, a wondrous individual, went off, you know, she said, okay, Mum, that's fine. She went off, she laid down these flowers where she thought they were, side by side, which is nice. My wife went off to find where she was buried, and she put the flowers down. And she came back, and pretty soon it became clear that everything had changed, uh, that the problems we had, uh, were no longer problems. And certain things happened in financial, commercial, professional life that told me something had changed. And I was driving past this burial ground, and I thought to myself, 'Ah, that's where my wife is buried.' And no sooner had I had the thought that I saw in absolute color a scene where my wife was walking out of the workhouse that was there, the debtor's prison that was there, with her children into the arms of a man, her husband. Clearly it wasn't me in that life. But I was watching this in full color and thinking to myself in that life, well, this has worked out, thank God. This thing I've done hasn't had the outcome that I thought it would. Um, and then I knew that my wife's body was no longer there anymore. I had a bit of a cry. I went home, um, and I called my friend and said, listen, are we healing timelines? Are we healing different lives in the present and having an effect in the past? Does that even make sense? And she said, yes, Ben, that's exactly what we're doing. We can heal a past life now. We can heal the past in the present, which will change the future. I thought, fuck me, I can't understand that, but I do feel different. And since then, our lives have been completely different. You know, we're on a, we're on a path that we didn't realize was possible. And, um, I do think that we all have so much to heal. And that this is, as I say, a multidimensional, but as it turns out, a multiple timeline effort. And it's all such— well, it's all so many more times more complicated than we'd expect. So yes, spooky particles at a distance are one thing, but we're also dealing with multiple timelines, multiple lives, and trauma that needs to be brought out and healed that we simply don't suspect is there because it's not happening now. That's how crazy this whole thing is, to me at least.

That's an incredible story. What's kind of more incredible about that is, again, a couple of days ago, out of the blue, I had this thought about what if people in the future have already created our past, and that's what we're living through in a very similar way that you're describing. Um, and again, it's very hard to explain what I mean, but we don't know about whether time travel exists because there's that paradox of, well, where are the people from the future? But, but if they came back and then created us, that'd be something akin to God. And then we're living through what they've created. So maybe the Big Bang is in the future and not the past, which is okay. That is, it, it is very difficult to explain. But what you're saying here kind of ties in with what somebody else said to me about we're all— we've all got a lesson to learn or something to be aware of. And perhaps I took that to mean to better ourselves. There's some problem— not problem, but something we need to be made aware of because we aren't perfect. And maybe we're complaining about things when we shouldn't be, and we need to look at things from a different perspective. But what you're saying is that this is, this is actually relating to something that's happened and needs to be healed in the past. For something you may have done in the past or had influence in the past, which would make more sense that you could change that outcome. And yes, it sounds ridiculous. Yes, it sounds crazy. But so is life, you know, so, so is what we're— the fact that we're here. I go back to that, that if you, if you just spend any amount of time thinking about that, you'll come to the conclusion that it is the most craziest thing that we exist, uh, at all. And that's why people posit ideas like the multiverse and time travel and, and the idea of God that Einstein thought of. If he— we accept that he's possibly the most intelligent person that's ever lived, um, so far, he believed in God, uh, or some kind of divine force. So what, who are we to disagree? Who am I to disagree with any of that?

Well, you can disagree with whatever you damn well please because he's got the same brain that you did, or you do, and you, you know how to use it. Um, but you're right, you know, we need to question everything. And I mean, I'll tell you a hilarious story about my daughter. For some reason, about a year ago, she started talking about coming from an ice planet. Planet. And she would go into great detail about this place, that she lived with the penguins and that we were her mum and dad, because— and she had us back in this life because we did quite a good job in that one. And our, our son was her brother then, and there was a, there was a daughter as well. And for a long time, it led us to believe we were meant to have a third, but once we had two, it, it started to make sense that we stopped there. But she'd always talk about this ice planet, and I thought two things. I thought, I thought, first of all, this is this is a special, special human. And I would say that, but she's very special, and people who meet her comment on her— I don't know, her energy, her aura, whatever it might be, whether they use words like that or, or choose to use others. But I thought to myself, well, either I'm right and, you know, she's come to help us and we're here to protect her because she has some task to do in this incarnation, or it's just that she has a wonderful imagination. Imagination. And I don't want to do anything to mess with that because imagination is creativity, and we'd never call it lying because it's just perfect. But then we were in the garden, um, and this was about 3 months ago, and we hadn't done the solar system or planets or anything like that. And she pointed to the sky and said, Daddy, that's where my ice planet is.

Wow.

And I grabbed my astronomy app, I put it to the sky, and it was Neptune. Paul, do you know what Neptune is made out of? It's made of fucking ice.

Mm, my God.

I thought, okay, I'll just accept that and I'll move on. But I suppose it's easy for me to talk with this certainty, which can be maddening to some. I'm not saying it's maddening to you. It sounds like it's just been really interesting to you, and I've really enjoyed this conversation. But things like that just keep happening to And I don't put out the proposition it's because I'm special. I think I just put out the proposition that these things happen to me because I'm open to them, um, and they're not wasted on me.

I would say bounce off the sides 100%, that it's, it's what I was saying before about you have to be alert to these signals. Because as a father, you could have just— she could have just pointed to the sky and gone, that's where, that's where it was, and you could have gone, oh, that's really sweet, right? Come on, let's go and have lunch. Or you could have—

do you see what I mean? Let's look at the meaning of this. Exactly. Let's posit that that has significance and there is no coincidence. I mean, for instance, I mean, coming back to Cliff High, he's got this wonderful idea of the ontology that we live in a consciousness-led universe, that there is a divine intelligence controlling everything and we're playing part in the experiment. Whether you call it a hologram or not, we're playing part in the experiment. And he posits the idea that the universe is always talking to you, always. It's just up to you whether you listen or not. And if you listen, and by that I mean use all of the senses, you start to notice patterns which you can't explain. Uh, things like different types of groupings of letters and groupings of numbers on, um, plates— uh, sorry, um, registration plates. White feathers always turn up with our family. And the spiritual significance of a white feather is a confirmation that you're on the right path. Recently, you know, we're meant to be talking about gold and silver at some point. Well, potentially not. Yellow cars keep turning up in my lived experience. You know, we're making some decisions about weighting in our portfolio and then yellow cars keep turning up. You're like, okay, that's gold. That kind of starts making sense. It is. It's also abundance. So, you know, universe is always talking to you. It's always on your side. Um, whether or not that manifests itself as a really hard year that causes you to grow and become a better person, or whether it manifests itself as a string of wondrous events. Now, like you, like you say, you know, you're not always sent the great and the good and the wonderful. Sometimes you're sent the absolute dog shit because you need. And you have to look at everything neutrally. Well, you don't have to do anything I say, but it behoves you, I believe, to look at it neutrally and, and think, well, okay, something, something apparently terrible is happening, you know, pay attention because I'm about to learn a lesson, and I'm about to learn a lesson that's probably important, otherwise I wouldn't be having this experience, because there are no coincidences, everything has significance, and in 2024 I had to learn how to be a better human being, a better husband, a better father. So I was sent a really bad year so I could develop the skills to be a better husband, a better father, and better human. So if you look at things in those terms, there is no bad and good. Um, there's simply challenge which grows, um, or there's reward for, for doing okay. And like I said, life just becomes a little simpler when you start seeing things like that.

I think we're definitely gonna have to have a part 2 of this.

I'd be delighted to.

Yeah, Tim, what, what, what do you think?

Absolutely.

Yeah, um, I have to confess that I'm on a bit more of a clock than, uh, and I've let it run over, uh, a bit further, and I didn't want to do that, Ben, because it's, it's not the, um, you know, I, I, I love letting conversations go on for as long as they need to be.

Okay, it's felt It's felt very— it's been a great fun conversation. It's felt very natural. I hope we've, I hope we've, um, given people the space to, to question things that they think and, and to, you know, go through the day and be a bit more attentive to some things that they might not see as signals. You know, as I say, it's, it's a lot easier to take help than it is to reject help. You know, the ego causes us to reject this help, but the open mind, the conscious mind looks at the universe and says, well, actually this thing is for me. Now maybe this isn't so bad. So if everyone has a bit of a day as a consequence, that's absolutely fine. But we've all got work to do. So no, no harm, no foul, Paul. It's been wonderful talking with you. And of course you, Tim.

So as far as media picks go, I think all we could do is ask you to let people know where they can get your your book from?

Would that be—

yeah, would that be okay?

Delighted to. So it's called The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Great Awakening, um, which was written in November 2024 with myself and my brother Michael Dowling-Fleet. Uh, you can only get it on Amazon at the moment, uh, in printed form and also as a digital book, as an ebook. I'm working on the audiobook, but my PTSD was such from 180 that it's going very, very slowly. And we have just finished, we're putting the icing on the cake today of a course called Awakened Foundations 1, which takes the willing learner through ideas of the Great Awakening, the world as frequency, religion as control system, politics as theater, war as a multi-dimensional effort to create wealth for those above us, etc., etc., and education, COVID-19, and also cultural Marxism. So it's kind of a sheep dip into the Great Awakening done with a bit of humor, a bit of a wink, such that we can present dark materials without people losing themselves. Because I'm a big believer that a conspiracy awakening can be just another frequency trap if you don't do it right, because you can swiftly get fearful and pissed off and worried, etc., etc., and hopeless. And we posit that a great, a Great Awakening should a positive experience that allows you to open your eyes, raise your consciousness, and really enjoy life and your fellow humans a lot more. So you can read about all of this in The Hitchhiker's Great Awakening, and then you can sit with us and learn about it in Awakened Foundations 1, which you can find at awakenedcoaching.life.

So I'll put all the links in the show notes. If somebody wanted to ping you directly, are you on X, or would there be an email address or something like that they they could use?

Oh, they can certainly email from the website. I think that goes— I think Mike set that up yesterday. It goes to admin@awakencoaching.life, and I answer all emails.

Brilliant. Um, I can see why you did the audiobook because you have a great, great voice.

Um, so what do you get? What do you get Fergus to do yours?

You've spoken to Fergus?

Yeah, we had him on the show a couple of years ago.

Yeah, yeah. No, I love him like a brother, but his from, you know, he's slightly grumpy Lancastrian. I'm doing Yorkshire and he's from Blackpool, but yeah, it's, uh, it's slightly grumpy.

Like, he's also north of Watford.

Yeah, so we just don't give a shit, do we?

So you did his book, but just one final question. Professionally, as a voiceover artist, is that something you do generally, or did you just do it because you happened to meet him?

I just did it because I happened to meet him. Well, I, I had a highfaluting idea that he would share the profits and, uh, that I would kind of have a media asset that would give my family income over the years. But he swiftly said, no, I'm not doing that. I'll give you this piece of money, which at the time looked like a good amount of money, but the amount of time it took me, it turns out that it was about 3 pence per hour.

Yeah, no, it's, it's a phenomenal undertaking to do. Phenomenal. People just don't realize how hard it is to produce an audiobook. And no, it's— I, I completely understand But, but well, thank you for sharing all your thoughts and your handles and Tim for bringing you onto the podcast. And hopefully we'll have another conversation in the future.

Fantastic. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, gents. And thank you, everybody, for listening. I hope you've got something out of it.

Thanks, Ben.

Thank you, Tim. Take care, guys.

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