#037: Ryan Chen & Kent Yoshimura - NeuroGum’s $10M Bet on the Future of Health

One of my childhood friends came to visit me in the hospital, and one of the things that he said to me still sticks with me. He's like, dude, you're still the same guy. Now you're just in the chair chilling. And it gave me that perspective of like, oh whoa, I'm the same person. I just get to point A to point B differently, you know? And I got to do things sometimes a little bit differently, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to do it and figuring out a way to do it.

Ryan Chen and Ken Yoshimura are the co-founders of NeuroGum, an LA-based wellness brand that sells clinically studied nootropics to help people feel more energized, focused, and calm. In this episode, the NeuroGum team unpacks their own turning pro moments while scaling the health brand, how they've managed to overcome major obstacles and hurdles, and why more founders should remember to celebrate wins at every stage of their company's growth journey. Welcome back to episode 37 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today Today I have Ryan Chen and Ken Yoshimura, the co-founders of NeuroGum, joining me. Thanks for coming today, guys.

Thanks for having us, man.

So this is a fun episode because usually it's myself, Adrian, and one guest, but Adrian is traveling right now, so we're just like, we're switching the, switching the roles today. And I'm super excited for this because not only do I get to have two co-founders on a conversation, but you guys are also one of our partners, which has been absolutely amazing, at least for us. And I'm just super excited to not only jump into your own stories, but also just like talk about a little bit of the work we've been doing together.

Sounds good, man.

I did a little bit of research about both you and your story, and I'm just kind of blown away. I feel like you guys have just done so many things, like separate from NeuroGum. It's like your art— like one of my friends, Zach, has this concept of artist, athlete, entrepreneur, or like the 3 buckets. When you think about like high performers and successful people, a lot of them have like a thing in each of those buckets. And I feel like that is very relevant for you guys. Think about like you're doing different types of training in martial arts. You got the murals, all sorts of things. Would love to maybe just start by digging into your backgrounds a little bit and then we can kind of go from there.

Yeah.

And Ryan, you wanna start? You have a pretty crazy career.

Um, yeah, my background was, you know, My parents were very much focused on equal parts education, equal parts athletics. So each one of my parents got to pick a sport at a young age. My dad picked golf. My mom picked kendo, which is a Japanese martial art. So that was pretty much, Kent, similar to you, our daycare. We trained all the time. And I got to run nationally for cross-country and track in high school. Our team to 7th in the country. And then for kendo, I got to compete on the Japanese national team in, in my freshman year of high school in Japan when I was living there. And I was like the only non-Japanese person on that team. So I got this experience a lot at a really young age. And then, you know, obviously later on in my life when I met Kent, my freshman year we were roommates, and then my sophomore year I got into a really crazy snowboarding accident. So fell 30 feet out in Big Bear, California, instantly broke my back and was paralyzed. And, and then, you know, had to rebuild my life from there. So, you know, that was the foundation that I needed in terms of friends that supported me for that transition of like, you know, how do I redefine myself and change that perspective of like, hey, this accident happened to me, to hey, this is, this is my life now and how do I change my perspective around it. So got back into wheelchair racing, then we went scuba diving, and you know, now I got my pilot's license a couple years ago. It's just like, we're just like constantly working on just bettering ourselves, and, and that's kind of a mantra that we have with Neuron, with what we built.

You're doing more stuff than like the average person, you know? You're like moving way more than the average person.

My best friend, like one of my, like, you know, Ken's like my brother and my best friend. One of my childhood friends came to visit me in the hospital, and one of the things that he said to me still sticks with me. He's like, dude, you're still the same guy. Now you're just in the chair chilling. And it gave me that perspective of like, oh, whoa, I just got chills here. You said I'm the same person, I just get to point A to point B differently, you know? And I got to do things sometimes a little bit differently, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to do it and figuring out a way to do it.

So yeah, I want to ask you a couple questions and then we'll jump into your background. Uh, something I'm curious about is just like that mental process that you went through, cuz I'm sure it was not linear, right? Like, yeah, I would love to learn a little bit more about the self-talk. You know, like you can look at life glass half full versus glass half empty, feel bad for yourself versus just like accepting your reality as things evolve. What was that journey like for you, you know, from your life before the accident to after?

Yeah, that inner voice is the strongest voice that you hear, right? It's the one constantly in your ear and in your head. But the one thing that stuck with me, I remember was who I was before. I was like, always trying to be, you know, a positive person, surround myself with good people. And even after my accident, that was the same thing. I want to surround myself with good people. And even though I wasn't mentally fully recovered, I was like rock bottom depression, you know, you know, at the time this was— I got hurt 2008, 2009, right? I was 19 years old. Oh, this was before the opioid epidemic. So everybody, all the doctors were giving me crazy amounts of oxy. Oxy, Norco, methadone, Dilaudid, like everything. And so for about 3 years, I was on these pain medications every single day, 4 hours every single day, like clockwork. And I couldn't live my life without that. And I got into this spiral of like this huge amount of dependency. And I, I figured out at one point I just have to quit. Like, this is not like a future that I wanted to have. I was just at home. I was friends would come and visit me, but I wasn't really doing that much other than just trying to get back into school. So taking myself out of that frame from like knowing, okay, I got one life to live. How do I shift this mentality of just like making the most of what I got? Let me just like open the door and see what happens. Like, let me go outside. And, and then lo and behold, there's been so many more opportunities in my life now than I could have ever imagined, you know, getting to travel to the White House, you know, getting to be here with you on this podcast and meeting some incredible founders. At the Jack Taylor event last, like yesterday, just like every day there's something going on. I couldn't have imagined that, especially if you told 19-year-old me from that moment of like, you know, doctors saying like, hey, you'll never walk again. I was like, we're talking, I just, you know, we were just competing nationals cross-country like less than a year ago. Like, how is that even possible? So, yeah, sometimes doors close in your life and opportunities seem like they disappear, but I think if you just go out looking for it, there's opportunities always out in the foreground.

As I mentioned to you before we started, I usually wait a little bit longer to pose this question, but it feels very relevant here. But like the concept of turning pro is just like double-clicking into those moments in your life where you have big changes and like, you know, it's transformational and you take things to the next level. I'm curious if there was like one particular moment post-injury where you're like, all right, like this happened, this isn't the life I want to live. Like now I'm going to go on the offense instead of the defense. And you've just like turned your life around into accomplishing more by this point in your life than some people will their entire lifetime.

Yeah. Um, I mean, it was a slow process, you know, Kent was there visiting me in the hospital in like Loma Linda from San Diego and that's like, you know, 2-hour drive. And so slowly it built up this confidence of like, hey, people still want to be around me. People like are supporting me. And I think one big change is actually pretty serendipitous, but one of my best friends from high school, Marcus, is here, and he did this documentary called No Cameras Allowed, and he invited me to be part of this documentary of sneaking into music festivals and traveling around the world. And so we took a road trip from LA to Austin. That was my first trip anywhere, basically, like, with a group of friends. And I was really hesitant at first, and then, you know, he just— he's the most, like, you know, charming person. He's just like, dude, you just got to come. So charismatic. And I was like, dude, but I don't wanna slow you guys down. Like, I haven't really traveled that much. He's like, dude, you're gonna come. And I had the best time ever. And that really opened my eyes of like, oh, well I can travel and I can meet new people who aren't gonna judge me for being in a chair, even though I thought maybe people would. And I just saw the kindness in people and how excited people like were to have me around. And I was like, wait, if I can do this, like, This is amazing. And it slowly over time, you know, we built the confidence to even try to build a company. You know, this was, it was so many things started to click in this puzzle called life.

And there's a photo that's so representative of that moment also of people supporting you. It went viral actually, but it's during a Young the Giant concert.

It was number one on Reddit.

Yeah, it was number one on Reddit. You guys should pull it up. It's from a Young the Giant concert.

Wait, what do I have to look up?

And freaking all of our friends just lifting Ryan up. And while Ryze crowdsurfed—

what should I Google?

Look up, uh, guy in wheelchair crowdsurfing. It'll probably pop up.

No way.

It's like the most epic photo of all time.

I can pull it up for you.

This is the one Marcus took. Yeah, this is a video podcast. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta—

and scroll to the right. There's like the other—

look how good that picture is, dude. Come on, right?

Do you have this like framed somewhere?

Yeah, Marcus like had it printed out for me.

There's a couple other angles.

Yeah, so good. You better have like a massive— you got to make this, dude.

There's another dude.

This is, uh, this was, uh, from our show, our friend's show, um, Young the Giant. And you know, we're gonna have— actually, speaking of partnerships in the brand, we're gonna do a partnership with Young the Giant, which is like pretty cool.

That is one of the coolest photos I maybe have ever seen. We'll put it on the screen for people who are watching this. That is it.

Oh, you know Marcus?

I don't know him. No, I've He's been like an inspiration.

Oh yeah, Marcus is a G, dude.

He's like— it's called No Cameras Allowed.

Yeah, I have chills thinking like—

so, so Marcus is literally at Electric Lady Studios like half a mile from here. He's with Mumford right now. So we were trying to coordinate. I was like, dude, I'm already late to this podcast. I was like, fuck, I'll see you in LA.

But yeah, I appreciate you making the time to come over here. That is bananas.

You guys are more important than Mumford.

I appreciate that. I don't know how true it is, but I'll take it.

Platter, baby.

Yeah, platter, baby.

Um, let's jump into your, let's jump into your background and then we'll talk about what you guys are building and then we can talk about the, the marriage with Platter as well.

All right. Sounds good. Let me turn these around actually.

This is the first time we've actually had a product, which I think is a dope, it's a dope little plug. All right.

Let's go. Cool.

Hit me. I wanna, I wanna hear your story.

Ad-lib?

Yeah, just rip it. Your background.

Man. So where do I start? 5 years old. I mean, both my parents were working. Immigrant family. You know, my dad's cranking. My mom's working at Kikkoman. And karate was, like Ryan said, my daycare. It was a place where I was able to hang out after school and really explore not just my physical self as a child and get my energy out, but also my mental self with just the mantras of martial arts. And in that process, I think even going through school, you know, I didn't necessarily go to a predominantly Asian school, but there was— sounds weird the way I say it, but there was an expectation to do well because it was a private school and my parents expected me to do well. But martial arts was always a really massive part of my life. And entering into college, I knew that it was something that I wanted to pursue a lot more than academics. Although education was obviously important to me. So in college, you know, when I met Ryan, I was studying neuroscience and training intensively in fighting, like maybe, you know, 4 to 6 hours a day. Traveling to Thailand every year, fighting in Pattaya Stadium with the Sidi Othong team, going to Japan and training with Imperial Guards out there in judo and the Olympic team out there. Also Kokushikan, which is the best college out there. I would stay during the summers and in the dorm rooms and just do judo with these guys every single day. And in that process, I realized that I wanted to push my mind and body further. So I started delving into different forms of supplementation as one would do, uh, that weren't steroids and fell into the world of nootropics and realizing that the Monster, Red Bull, uh, supplement industry as a whole were unregulated or things that a typical athlete won't take, which, you know, as an athlete, I started mixing my own supplements that I was buying online and testing them all myself and then testing them on my friends who I knew would trust me when I gave them.

Guinea pigs.

When I gave them—

No, trust me, you can take this. It's good for you. Don't worry about it. Where's the label? No, there's no label.

No, no, don't worry. I mix it myself. And so in many ways, you know, that was V0 of Neuro. But as my college career went on, and I started getting more involved with neuroscience. I started getting more involved with film and art. I realized that while this world of martial arts was important to me from a physical level, it— I really valued the more martial aspect of it and wanted to explore the more creative side and eventually ended up you know, going into film. Was at UCLA for a little bit, was working on a documentary with my friend Najib Sabor, who was signed by, uh, Mirrorball Studios at the time, which is the production, you know, uh, label that, uh, made Amy Winehouse's most famous album. So, uh, we're eyeing her as an executive director— or sorry, an executive producer for this documentary we were filming. Uh, things were going well, and then she literally, you know, as we all know, passed away a few months later. I didn't know how to navigate that at the time. I was only 22. So the documentary got put on hold. Didn't really know what to do. Started illustrating and just trying to draw as much as possible, paint as much as possible. Stayed at Ryan's house and eventually got the opportunity to make a children's book for one. I was working with an author already, so I made a children's book with her, but then The Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf actually saw my work and wanted me to help them with a national launch for their children's series of decaffeinated teas. So I helped with their branding. I made a children's book for them, did all these illustrations, illustrated their tins. And that led me to become incredibly good friends with their CEO, Mel Elias, who was leaving Coffee Bean at the time because it was getting acquired. And I went to work to work at a music studio. Making film and music— music, sorry, film and television music for Sony and a lot of Sony assets, um, like American Horror Story, a bunch of commercials and things like that. Realizing the music industry is a toxic place, I was, I was at the music studio for 2 years, you know, cranking every single day, but I wanted to get back into making really my own things. But bigger. And murals seem like that thing. So I went out there, started painting murals for free on whatever wall was available to me. And, uh, at the same time, you know, Ryan and I started developing NeuroGum because it was one of those things that we both knew we were passionate about. We were on a scuba diving trip realizing that it was an absolutely fantastic idea that at least we wanted to have in our own lives. But possibly other people would want to have as well. And as my mural career started to take off because more and more people started seeing my art and wanted to commission me, and, you know, those projects became bigger, like I started getting several managers that will help me get more and more gigs. Um, Neuro blew up in this, in this crazy way with, uh, launching on Indiegogo and the Reddit community, the Reddit Nootropics community actually, finding the idea to be novel enough that they want to share with all their friends. And in 3 days we reached our goal.

That's growth hacking at its finest.

Growth hacking at its finest.

Wow.

And from there we had like fricking 3 pallets of product delivered to my apartment. Our now CEO was my roommate. Ryan would come over, you know, with a bag of Hulu snacks because he was working at Hulu at the time, feeding us while we're you know, all packing boxes until morning comes and shipping out until those pallets eventually disappeared from my apartment. And we got a 3PL instead. And so it's, it's been a wild journey. I know there's no conclusion because there's no conclusion yet, you know, to, to any of these things. But I still continue to paint murals. I also had a short stint building like toy stores and experiences. So if you are ever in Union Square, there's a store called Camp. me and a few friends built the flagship store, like the very first iteration of it. Um, we designed Diddy's 50th birthday. We did the Fear of God 50th, like 6th collection. So creativity and art and like big projects like that have always been a big part of what I love, uh, and want to push and explore. But, you know, this wellness side and fitness side is something that is core to my beliefs and my being as well. And right now I'm training for an ultra marathon that's coming up in 2 weeks. We ran yesterday, you know, and, uh, I don't know, it's constantly about just like doing what you love and pushing the bounds and, um, living, I don't know, living life, you know, as much as you possibly can.

I mean, what, what drives you guys? I think it's so crazy because you've built such a successful company, but it's like if you talk to the average person and just strip Neuro out of the picture, people would still objectively look at everything else you both have done and be like, wow, right? It's— and then you layer in this thing on top of it, which is just like your baby, which is, you know, the business you guys have been building for 8 years at this point.

But they're pretty intertwined.

They're all intertwined.

Yeah, I know it's intertwined, and I feel like the best founders, uh, who have the most success is when they're building something that is intertwined with like how they live their life every day, especially in the consumer world, for sure. But I'm just curious to know, like, where do you—

where—

what drives you? Like, where does that come from?

I think it's like impul— at least for me, it's like impulsiveness. You know, I absolutely like, if I love something, I will, if I don't like something, I will immediately reject it. So I don't even think about it. But if I love something, I'm going so like fucking deep into that thing, whatever it is that like nothing else matters. And that's the case with Neuro. When I'm working on Neuro and we're building this team and we're building processes, I am so locked in for that time during my day. And then if I'm running, I don't even listen to music when I run.

I don't either. Do we talk about this? Yeah, we talk about this. Yeah, yeah.

It's great. Like, I'm just locked in listening to the sound of my footstep and I will go for like 4 hours straight. You know, and it's like, I think it's just like a lot of like successful people, at least not saying that like I'm successful by any means, but like a lot of successful people that I look up to and I meet, have that same capacity of focus. Like Napoleon had this quote because he was able to do so many things. Obviously one of the greatest emperors/dictators that ever existed. So taking that, the negative side of what he did away, his capacity to become one of the greatest leaders in the world was having all these cabinets open, but only having one cabinet open at a time. And being able to focus on everything that was in that drawer and then shutting it and have a filing system in his head that was hyper-organized and efficient when it needed to be. And in many ways I feel like my brain works in, maybe it's a little more disorganized, but at least for me, my brain works in that way as well.

Organized chaos.

Organized chaos.

Makes sense in your head.

Yeah.

For those listening, can you just give a quick 2 seconds on what NeuroGum is?

Yeah.

You do it the best.

Go for it. Dude, the NeuroGum spiel, huh? So NeuroGum is making— we're making the future of gum and mints, which means healthy products that are accessible and approachable that fit anyone's lifestyle at any time and anywhere.

You practiced that a couple times.

100%.

Got that one down to a science. I want to just give a quick overview for those listening on how we even got connected, because these are like my favorite stories. I was with my friend Fridell, who works at Live Nation, at the office one day, and we were just coworking and she handed me a product. She's like, you should try this. I think you'll like it. And she gave it to me and it was NeuroGum. It was the energy and focus gum. And I texted her like 2 days later. I was like, you have to connect me to these founders. Like, I'm obsessed with this product. And I think those are always how, like, the best partnerships and the best friendships happen when there's just like no expectation going into it. Like, for me, it was genuinely— I wanted to let these people know that I really appreciate what they've done. And when you remove transaction from relationship building, and I talk about relationships a lot on this podcast because it's something that is very valuable and meaningful to me. But when I got connected to you guys, I initially got on the call with, uh, with you, Ryan, and all I did was just like let you know that I love the product. And naturally you're like, oh, like, what do you do? And it was like one thing led to the next.

True.

Yeah.

I was like, either this is the best sales pitch ever, or you're starting out.

This guy's good. But it was, it was actually like, I've I, I usually the way that it works is like I'll look at someone's website and be like, all right, I need to talk to these people. But I never even looked at your website when I first spoke to Fidel. I was like, I just want to talk to them because I love this product.

That's awesome, dude.

That's awesome, right?

We just like kind of hit it off and then I was like, yeah, like show me what you guys do. And I was like, holy shit. I was like, I got to connect you with Kent and the marketing team because we don't— I don't want to have devs and I don't want to have this like roadblock or this bottleneck of like trying to innovate on something. This seems like a really great—

yes, you see it in the expenses every single month.

I know. And I, yeah, I, I run all the— I look at all the finances, like, why are we spending so much on devs? Like, it's like, we're a CPG company, we're not a tech company. This doesn't make sense. These bills doesn't— yeah, it didn't add up for me. So what you guys are building at Platter is pretty amazing.

I think it's cool though, because it's, it's not like you were actively seeking like an alternative or a different solution. And it's like something kind of just gets put in front of you. And it's like, why? Because you guys are curious people. Exactly.

And then something gets presented to you where it's like so much better of a solution. You're like, oh, like, I wasn't even looking, but this just makes so much sense.

I think it's largely driven by curiosity though, right? Like, I would, I would say you both are just innately curious people given the breadth of things you've done. Because to your point, it's like if you find something and you're interested in it, you just become obsessed with it. It's like all in. And then you'll find out very quickly if you don't like it, you throw it away and move on. And if you do, it's like, let's pursue that.

I think we were talking earlier about like the amount of cold emails you get if you're like a, like a founder in a business or any entrepreneur.

It's, it's almost like actually a measurement for if you're actually getting successful or not. Just like, I feel like the more successful your business becomes, the more emails and the more like, oh my God, you get like—

and you just, again, like the rejection, the idea of rejection, right, is such a big thing that you need to accept like as you get bigger.

100%.

You gotta, you gotta go through the noise. Like you gotta eliminate the noise or you can't hear anything that like is meaningful.

And I find that as you move up the ranks in any aspect of your life, more people want to talk to you, more people want a piece of you, and it becomes even more and more important to have a filter. Friendships, business relationships, anything, because a lot of people have ulterior motives in, in any capacity. And I think that becomes harder as you become more accessible.

The most valuable asset is time. That's it.

And it take— I think it takes a lot of people a lot of time to learn that and recognize that. To be honest with you, it's actually something that is pretty new for me in terms of like that unlock. I, I would say it's a turning pro moment for me. Have you read the book Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell?

No.

So I'm not a big reader. I very— I read very few books a year. Like, I sat down and read this book in one sitting. What'd you say?

I said Audible.

Yeah, well, download it for the plane ride.

I've tried it, just, I don't— whatever, that's a whole nother conversation. We can talk about that too. But, um, this is a book that I sat down and read in one shot.

Wow, really?

Yeah, because I think it was something that resonated with me so deeply.

Okay.

And the premise of it was how valuable your time is, right? Buy Back Your Time is the name of the book, and I felt like I was in this stage with Platter growing where I never felt like I could get ahead of myself. It's like I was— I always felt like I was behind and I was just like climbing up this mountain of to-dos. And I was like, okay, I got to like look inward and try to understand why is this happening? Because it's not like I'm doing anything different than a lot of other founders, right? Like we're all building companies, we're all busy. Well, we all have things to do. I need to analyze why this is happening. And so the biggest unlock for me in reading this book was talking about this concept of if you assign a dollar value to your time, and then audit how you spend your time and basically assess what tasks are you spending a lot of time on that are way below your pay grade, you'll very quickly realize that you're being very inefficient. So like the best way to describe it is let's just say based on how much money you make, your time is worth $100 an hour, right? And you audit like a week of your schedule and you spent 8 hours just like scheduling meetings and responding to emails. But you can actually have someone whose time is worth $20 an hour to do that for you. Think about how much money you left on the table because you weren't doing like high-impact things. And so for me, it was being really rigorous about assessing how am I spending my time, what is the best use and highest impact thing I could be doing all the time, given what my talents are and what my contribution is back to my business. From that moment on, I feel like I just have been on a whole new trajectory with like output and just like progress that we've made both professionally and personally.

100%. I mean, even in the company, you know, we talk about the most important thing is the vision. And if something doesn't align with the vision, then we don't do it. Like at all, which is the value, like, which is the value of having values in many ways.

Yeah. And I think the other point of that is like when you think about hiring, right? I always say, I always say that if you hire someone into your company that is not significantly better than you at something, then it's a bad hire.

Oh yeah. Like, what are they doing? Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. And so I think it's then being very honest with yourself about like, what am I good at? I'm a huge proponent. I probably said this on, 50% of our episodes, which is like make your A's, A pluses, and find someone else to do your C's for you. It's like lean into your superpowers, optimize your schedule and your time around doing the thing you're best at, and fill in those gaps with other people, and you'll find success. Hypothetically, I like to think, as, as you start to move along that journey.

That's a good one.

It takes, it takes a long time to realize that though.

A lot of mistakes, expensive, uh, timely to get there.

But it's like all my 20s. Yeah, literally.

Exactly. But it's not— look, it's not like, uh, entrepreneurship entrepreneurship is not a linear path.

No, and it shouldn't be, actually. The best entrepreneurs, you're eventually going to crash if it is a linear path.

Yeah, because it's like too good to be true.

You're beelining into a pole, probably. 100%.

And my, my girlfriend actually brought this up to me yesterday. She was like, I listened to one of your podcasts and I know you— this is really funny, I'm just like processing this in real time. Sure. I know you talk about like how great it is because you have freedom of your own schedule and you get to build your own thing. But like, I also know that you're like super stressed out a lot and like you're working crazy hours. Like, do you talk about those parts? As much. And I'm like, honestly, yeah, I think entrepreneurship is super cool because the highs are super high. You know, we've talked about when Joe Rogan is talking about NeuroGum, for you guys to look at each other, be like, holy fuck, like, did that really just happen? But like, the people who internalize that and hear that don't necessarily know about like all the other conversations and sleepless nights and things that went wrong, where like you probably thought the company was going under multiple times in the early days and you didn't really know. But it's like you build these battle scars and you just continue to stay in it. I always say that like being default alive, where as long as you just stay in the game long enough to give yourself a chance to win, you'll eventually get there. Um, and so I think having this conversation with my girlfriend was like just a really good reminder for me to recognize that like, while we talk about how glorious it is a lot, I think it's really important for people listening who aspire to be entrepreneurs to recognize that that is not what like a normal day is worth.

No, 99% of the day is definitely not that.

Yeah.

99.9% of the time is definitely not that. You know, it's mostly just like maneuvering maneuvering around— it's not necessarily fires. I would say early on a lot of people deal with fires because they don't know how to navigate around them. I feel like—

reactive for a lot of things.

I feel like these fires are always happening, but we just don't even recognize them anymore. They're just like, all right, we'll put them out, and then we just keep going because you know how to maneuver around them now because it's not just a linear path.

No, the other— the other thing, uh, that I talked about with her as well is if you think about like a surgeon, like an older surgeon, when like something happens in like a hospital and they're like— they don't really react and you're like, you're freaking out, but they're like calm. It's like, because they've been there before and they've seen that, right? So your point, when you— you guys are 8 years into this, something that now happens probably would freak you out 6 years ago. You're like, it's okay. Like, whoa, yeah, the world is not burning.

Yeah, it's experience and exposure. Yeah. And we've been exposed to all that stuff, like you said, would, would have freaked us out. Now I'm just like, oh well, it is what it is, we'll fix it, you know? Yeah, it's not the end of the world.

Also, we don't take ourselves too seriously.

Anymore.

I feel like we used to.

I think that's really good. It's really good advice and something for people listening to take in because it's—

it just comes with age, dude.

Young people take themselves so— or like people starting out take themselves so seriously. They're like, I'm gonna be the next Steve Jobs, only turtlenecks from here on out. I was like, you gotta chill, dude. Like sweaters and like just let it rip, you know?

And smile too. Like, smile. That was the first thing I gave up actually when I always joke I gave up my corporate job 12 hours before my first day. Damn, and never went. But the first thing I said was like, I'm not putting on like a button-down shirt like ever for work. I'm like, not— I'm not someone who wants to wear like a suit and tie ever. Like, it's my— I want to be comfortable. And I always say with my team too, I'm like, of course you're on a client call, like, don't be in pajamas, but like, you're allowed to wear whatever you feel like you're going to be the highest performer in. And so to have the autonomy and the freedom, it's like, don't take yourself too seriously, just like enjoy it. Like, you can set your own boundaries and just like live in the moment and see what happens.

Also, smiles are attractive. And you want to attract people to you.

It's true. Positivity, it's a real thing.

It is crazy magnetic, you know.

I want to double-click into the journey with NeuroGum. I mean, you guys have been at it for 8 years now. I think there's not a lot of people who can say that they've been able to, to withstand all the things that have been thrown your way.

I don't know what to say. We've been through it all. We've been through it all. It's been wild.

What would you say, looking back, are like the 3 biggest learnings you've had from this journey?

Oh, you say two and then I could just like piggyback off that and say one.

I mean, I think resilience is one. I think when you think about 8 years, there's obviously going to be a resilience component to doing something for 8 years, right? Like it wasn't an overnight success thing. Like even though we hit the Indiegogo thing in 3 days, it's like it could have been a flame that just like, you know, fizzled out really quickly. So we had to like build up on that momentum and slowly grow it. And I was still working a full-time job at Hulu. Kent was still working. This music studio, we're like doing this as a side hustle to try to make, keep that dream alive at least, right? And so I think resilience is really key. And then I think just having fun. I think if we weren't having fun in the last 8 years, we'd both be burnt out and like we, you know, we drive ourselves crazy, right? So I think that's really important that a lot of founders I urge to keep in mind is like celebrate the small wins. 'Cause we're still like, oh my God, like Joe Rogan just mentioned us or like Andrew Schultz just mentioned us or, Steve Aoki just dropped the thing of like things that I can't live without. It's like these moments you got to keep reminding yourself. And even the other day while we were at Other Ship, this guy came up to me and he had a pack of NeuroGum. He's like, oh my God, like I was like, I love this brand so much. I was like hoping one day that like I'd be able to tell the founders one day and I can't believe I got to hang out with them. And I was like, whoa, that's so crazy. It's just like, it's still like a pinch me moment. I think it's just like celebrating the small wins, having fun and resilience for me, I think is Yeah, it's like, yeah, we're like constantly stoked every single day about just like being with an amazing team. Yeah, team's killer.

Like hearing all these people that are chewing our product, like that's a dream for anyone who creates anything, you know, to know that your baby's out there in the world impacting people's lives.

Getting inspired by people around you is so important. Like I talk about that, it's— I get so much energy from my co-founders and my team as well. This morning we had a, an all-hands meeting and it was 18 people. So we had 2 more people start this week, and that's the biggest the company's ever been. And I got off the call and I was sitting with Elliot, who was— you guys met previously— and I looked at him, I was like, oh my God, that was so many faces. Like, I can't believe— I remember when it was 3 of us in the basement, like, with this idea of like, oh, let's build a company and kind of figure out along the way what it's going to be. And you get to hear, and it just like inspires you to want to give a little bit more.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think part of that, which you guys both have this as well, but I just this idea of athletes becoming entrepreneurs is like, it's so common because you just have that competitive drive.

Oh, absolutely.

You can't turn that off even if you wanted to. So you want to be the best at everything you do.

I can be smiling, but I'm still gonna—

I'll still beat you.

I'm still gonna beat you, you know. Don't worry.

It's amazing. Um, all right, I feel like I, I have to bring up, uh, what we've done with you guys with Platter and Narrow Gum.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, can I say one more thing though? Yeah, I think like we both start a company with co-founders and a lot, like, you know, we hear stories of co-founders always like being friends and then eventually becoming enemies because something tears them apart. And I think one of the things that like Ryan does so well is making sure that our egos are set aside every single day when we enter into the company. Like there's obviously things that are bigger than us that we're building. And I think sometimes a lot of people don't recognize that when they're starting, especially with other people. So our friendship always comes first, our brotherhood always comes first, and I feel like that's helped us accelerate the growth of our business in many ways beyond like these other companies I've seen that have co-founders that have led to, you know, troublesome times.

I think that coincides with the comment you made before though about like not taking yourself too seriously.

Exactly.

Because if you're able to not take yourself too seriously, you put aside the ego because you know you're just having fun and it's like the world is still going to be here tomorrow.

Yeah.

And it allows you to actually perform much better because you guys trust each other.

Funny, because all these people who want to be like the next Steve Jobs or the, like the next Elon Musk are lonely looking at an individual instead of the entire company and the vision of what they're trying to build. But these people were able to motivate everyone else because the vision was bigger than who they were as individuals. Yeah. So like for us, it's exactly the same, you know? Yes, we're the co-founders and yes, we're in front of like, you know, the cameras and the press and everything else. But like, none of this is possible without all the people that have helped prop us up. Like that picture. Pull that picture up again.

It's amazing. Yeah. It's like you put the ego aside and you, you inspire people around you and you guys all work on something together. It's very cool to see. All right, we got, we got to talk about the Plow.

Do the plug.

I mean, it's not even that. It's for me, I would say probably since we started this company, it was my favorite site that went live. And you know what I actually want to say, though? That a lot of it is credit to you guys, because one of the biggest misconceptions is you can have all the functionality and all the best practices from like a consumer journey perspective. But if you don't have good assets on your website, nothing matters.

Yeah.

And you guys have amazing branding, amazing assets. And so that only amplifies the work that we're able to do because it complements us with the thing that we need to like really make it pop, right?

Yeah. You could dress up shit, but it's still shit.

Yeah, exactly.

Amazing recipe. You have the best recipe, but the ingredients aren't good. So you guys have the cookbook, right? You guys have this like recipe book and then now it's just like different brands that provide their assets, structure it, make it.

I want to like dig into it a little bit because you guys are actually the first brand partner that we've had come on the podcast. Oh, which is super cool for me. I mean, it took us 37 episodes to get there, but better late than never. But want to just dig a little bit into like how this all came together, what you guys were feeling and seeing from your side that ultimately made you decide to do it and like how you're feeling about how the experience is going.

So there's one phrase that we say in the company pretty often, which is control your own destiny. And that's a phrase we say before we approach any investor, you know, any partner. And frankly, like any employee that comes into the company as well, like literally it dictates a lot of the things that we do on the day to day. And I feel like you guys embody that in regards to the D2C side of our business. Ability for people to control their own destiny or reclaim their own destiny back. And it, I mean, it instantly clicked with you when you met Ben Sharf for the first time. And then when we spoke, you know, as a follow-up, that was immediately communicated to us with everything you said. And I mean, here we are, like our website feels like it's our own now, which is so amazing.

And it's been the best that it ever has been, right? In 8 and a half years. This is the best website we've ever had. And like I said, like it was cool when we connected because I, it wasn't even a pitch. It was just like, hey, what do you do? And I just saw that you do what you do so much better than anybody else doing it. And I was like, we just got to be a part of it.

So I be, I appreciate that. I think I'm hearing this is cool for me, but I actually care way more about hopefully people on our team hearing this because like, to your point, it's like, I might be the one in front of the camera, like having the conversations. But like that feedback loop is so important for everyone else that's involved because I'm, I don't, I'm not the one doing all the, the things that are really hard in my opinion.

Right?

Like I'm just here to make sure everyone has what they need to do their job as, as well as they can. So I think that feedback for, for other people on the team is so important. And again, it's all about like inspiring and moving forward for sure. But I think, yeah, look, I don't, I, I know you guys have to run soon because I appreciate you even coming in here. I know you, they don't live in New York. They. Move their schedule around to come pop in and say hi. So I, I do really appreciate you guys happy to be here coming in and, and, uh, doing an episode with us. But I think, um, I want to leave you with one last question, which would be, uh, if you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be and why?

I mean, I think it's still the same, like, don't take yourself too seriously. I think when I was a child, especially when you're training and you like grow up in this environment of competition, you are always trying to be number one, number one, number one in everything that you do. And as you get older, you realize that, you know, you go far alone, but you go farther together. And without the people around you to take you those extra steps every single time and continue to build that morale for you, like nothing is— nothing, at least to me, feels worth doing. That enthusiasm, the magneticness of Positivity is just— is what makes all of us go as social creatures. So don't take yourself too seriously.

What about you, man?

Along those lines, I would just say like, have fun doing it. You know, life is super short, so don't work with people that you don't want to be working with, and don't be doing something that you don't believe in. So I think the mantra on the team is just like, hire good people. Not just like that they're good at what they're doing, but just like fundamentally just like good people that we would want to hang out with. Yeah, so it's like a, it's like a vibe culture check at the end. It's like, hey, this person's like amazing, they're like the, you know, XYZ best at whatever, finance or design, but like they don't, they're not going to mesh well with the team. Life's too short. Like, we want everybody to have a good time. Like, that's at least the way I think about building a team.

Yeah, I love it. You guys want to look at the camera and you got to plug yourselves in. Neuro, everyone needs to try the product. I chew the gum every single day. It's It's actually not a lie. I have it in my mouth all the time. Yesterday when I was with you on the road, I was chewing it.

Yeah.

Plug it to the camera. Everyone needs to plug it, dude.

Neurogum.com, where you could buy it on the brand new Platter website. You can see how beautiful the site is and, uh, navigate through all the way to the checkout. Um, we'll give you guys a code so that you could plug that later.

Oh, amazing.

It's just the best way to get supplements, you know? Like if you're, if you're tired, you want some energy and focus, you got the gum or the mints, whatever floats your boat. We have Calm and Clarity. And then now the new sleep product. So yeah, yeah, Neuro all day.

There's a reason Ben chooses it all the time. There's a reason Joe Rogan chooses it all the time. Steve Aoki chooses it all the time.

I'm getting put in the same category with Joe Rogan. We got to cut it there. Thanks for coming today, guys. I appreciate it.

Thank you, dude. Appreciate it. Great.

Wow, that was fun.