#044: How Nishal Kumar Turned $30K into a Wellness Empire

out of the gate everyone's like, okay, you need to go to college campuses, you need to get everyone hooked on your product. I'm like, oh, that sounds perfect. So we did some campaigns, we'd run different Facebook ads. We realized they had no disposable income. Next, $10 on a 6-pack of beer. 19 is the drinking age in Canada. 20, 21, 22, whatever, they're still just buzzing around chasing that extra beer, right? And then ultimately we realized through some of our marketing efforts that this wine mom audience was gravitating towards towards us. So similar story, we sell to a lot of moms.

Nishal Kumar, founder and CEO of No Days Wasted, is revolutionizing the wellness industry with innovative solutions for recovery and well-being. Since launching in 2017, Nishal has been committed to creating science-backed supplements that help individuals recover faster from alcohol consumption and maintain an active lifestyle. In this episode, we delve into the inspiring journey behind No Days Wasted's rise to success. Nishal shares the story of the company's entrepreneurial beginnings, the strategic decisions that have driven their growth, and their recent achievement of launching in Walmart stores nationwide. He also discusses the importance of customer feedback and product development and his personal routines for maintaining balance and wellness. Welcome back to Season 2, Episode 7 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have Nishal Kumar, the founder and CEO of No Days Wasted. Thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it.

So you can give a quick background on what your business does, but while you do it, I'm gonna mix myself one to enjoy while we do this.

There we go. Fire it up. It's a hot sunny day here in New York, so essential. Um, Ben's got our hydration replenisher, so it's a mix of electrolytes— sodium, potassium, magnesium— along with vitamin C, D, and zinc for immune support. So we got a 2-in-1 action. Flavors are light and refreshing, only 4 grams of sugar, so you can absorb those electrolytes and, yeah, feel your best all day. Um, but also our hero product is something else. It's called DHM Detox, a vitamin for when you celebrate. Uh, and this is, this is how the company got started just over 5 and a half years ago.

How do you think through product and SKU expansion?

You know what, that's tricky because now electrolytes are dime a dozen, they're everywhere, everyone's launching them. But what we really leaned in on is our community and our customers and asked them what problems they need solved in their lives. So I think it's really important to establish your position being good at one thing out of the gate. And then once you've built up an audience around that, and ask them what else they're looking for.

I'm curious from like a trend and macro perspective. It was funny, the guest that we had on before this was talking about how meat is coming back, like high-quality, grass-fed, grass-finished beef.

Oh yeah.

How is it?

It's fantastic. Do you all want? I got some more.

I'll have a sip of that when you're done.

That's a strawberry pineapple right there. So I'm taking these to QVC this weekend, so it should be, should be fun.

Okay, so on the point of like macro trends. So the guy we had on before this is really experienced CPG entrepreneur, and he's seen a bunch of different waves of trends going around. He said the meat's coming back and kind of people are moving away from like plant-based Impossible Foods. And I think with the electrolyte trend, like I've been having Element, that like a— yeah, like salt and electrolyte thing.

Yeah.

For a couple of years now. And I think it's really interesting with trends from a consumer POV, you can tell pretty quickly if it's working for your body or not. And I think one thing that a lot of people got swept up in, in the plant-based trend or not plant-based, but specifically like these highly produced like Impossible Foods or Soylent.

Right, right, right.

Is that very quickly you just don't feel as good. And so I'm curious with electrolytes specifically and, you know, the second product as well, why is it so important to just build products around not just a trend, but like something that you can just tell every day when you have this, you just feel better?

100%. I think that's critical. I think there's always this big like flash in the pan, the headlines, vegan, that whole vegan movement. And obviously consuming plant-based things are good, but once it's taken too far, then people start getting creative, and a little too creative, I would say, right, with what you're putting in your body. And then it goes into ultra-processed, all these seed oils, and like, OK, what's the— we've lost the scope of what we're trying to accomplish, right? It was to get healthier in a way. And then now it's flipped over, and the pendulum swung, and it's like we're creating these things that are not making us healthy. So yeah, for us, I mean, really listening to the customer and making sure it's functional, and that it's results-driven, right? You want to be able to incorporate yourself into people's lives and we're after the everyday high performer. So like all of us in the room, you know, we have a lot to do every day. If we want to rest, it's on our own terms, not 'cause we feel awful, not 'cause we're sick. So that's where the 3 pillars that we have right now are DHM Detox for that recovery kind of alcohol health and socializing. And then Hydration Replenisher, which is hydration and immune support. And then we have a Sleep Assist product, which is magnesium-based, um, no melatonin. And that's so you can recover, uh, so you can rest well.

So I took it last night before bed.

How'd you feel?

I mean, I take it frequently.

Oh, over the past like month or so?

No, no, for a while.

Really?

Yeah.

Wait, how did you guys originally meet?

You know what, when I moved to New York, uh, we met at this founder dinner and Ben was like one of the first people I met. He was talking about his journey of not drinking, and I was like, oh, funny enough, I've got this product for you.

And then I was like, I'm not your guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but we hit it off in other ways because, you know, we both like to stay fit. Uh, yeah, it was, it was great.

And then, and then we got into the— I, I was asking him like, what do you do? How'd you get started? And then he started telling me this story about how Spit and Chiclets gotten like The guys of Spittin' Chiclets got involved in the business and I obviously am a hockey guy, so I was all in invested on the story from there.

Yeah. So I mean, you know, we were one of the longest standing partners of Spittin' Chiclets, really worked really closely.

Do you know what that is, by the way?

It's a hockey show.

Hockey podcast.

Hockey podcast. So it's like—

It's a Barstool.

Is it still?

It's still a Barstool.

Yeah.

Barstool Sports. So Paul Bissonnette is the co-host along with Ryan Whitney and there's a couple other guys, but two former NHL guys. Headline it. Um, and Paul, he was in Vancouver where I'm from this one summer working on a video series with a couple other buddies from Eagle Energy, which is like a caffeine product. And, uh, this was before he jumped on with Barstool. He was just retired from the NHL and he was trying to, um, jump in the world of content. So, uh, met him out one night and, uh, we were doing a crowdfunding campaign. I gave him some product Long story short, ran into him at the gym a few days later and I gave him some more product and he used it and he's like, this is great. Let's do something together. I'm joining this podcast. Boom. And it kind of just started rolling from there. So podcast advertising was big. It was our sort of golden goose, silver bullet for what, 3.5 years. And that's how we acquired a lot of our customers out of the gate. Now it's a little different because there's a lot of different advertisers, a lot of shows. But those bigger shows, they would return instantly too. So it was great for the cash conversion cycle.

Can you go back a step and just give us the founding story of the brand?

Yeah, 100%. So No Days Wasted started as a personal science experiment, essentially. I'd have a couple of drinks in the evening, and I was an early riser, liked working out in the morning. I was actually doing something called the Grouse Grind 3 times a week.

What's that?

Uh, so in Vancouver there's this big mountain called Grouse Mountain, and it's like 3.5 kilometers, like 2 and a bit miles straight vertical stairs essentially. Um, and a little, you know, some not stairs, rocks, different things, whatever, but a pretty awesome trail and hike. And, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a staple. So if you come to the West Coast, you'll have to check it out.

Turning Pro West Coast tour.

There we go. I think it's, I think it's due.

We got to go on the road at some point.

Yeah, just a quick trip to Vancouver.

100%. So yeah, I was doing that, exercising in the morning, but also, and training my buddy who went to play pro ball in Germany, pro basketball. And I had busy evenings too. So I did a lot of research. I have a background in chemistry and biology, and I uncovered the problem with alcohol. It's actually not alcohol itself, it's its toxic byproduct. And we wanted to get ahead of the problem before it had a chance to start. So how do you break that toxin down during your evening? That toxin being acetaldehyde. So got to work on that, really just dove deep into all the literature that was out there in making your liver enzymes perform better. And came across some ingredients that just sounded too good to be true. So started ordering all the raw materials myself, encapsulating in my apartment, and then just test using myself as the guinea pig. So yeah.

OG Tim Ferriss.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's how the best things start. You solve a problem close to you, whether it be directly for yourself or the people in your environment. And then work doesn't feel like work, right?

Yeah. One question I had for you, and I think we talked about this with Andrew from Noon Brew and Moon Brew. I don't know if you know those guys. They're like a supplement tea.

Yeah.

And something I talked to him about, early days of that company, he was just building it for himself because he would like hit an afternoon slump. He was having a ton of coffee. He's like, I need an alternative. And now they've grown up since then and raised capital and they're growing like crazy. And now when I talk to him, he's like, oh, we're selling to moms. Like, I still use it and I still love it. And like, I hope it's useful for our kind of customer persona. But it turns out there's a completely different demographic that needs it more. So I'm curious from your perspective, has that shifted over time?

100%. So out of the gate, everyone's like, okay, you need to go to college campuses. You need to get everyone hooked on your product. I'm like, Oh, that sounds perfect. So we did some campaigns. We'd run different Facebook ads, tried to tap into the network. And we realized they had no disposable income. They'd rather spend their next $10 on a six-pack of beer.

They'd rather the extra beer than some product to help make them feel better.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And also, they didn't experience that problem the same way that we did, right? I created this when I was in my mid-20s. And so at like— 19 is the drinking age in Canada. 20, 21, 22, whatever. They're still just buzzing around chasing that extra beer, right? So and then ultimately we realized through some of our marketing efforts that this wine mom audience was gravitating towards us. So similar story, we sell to a lot of moms and I'm actually going on QVC with our hydration product and that demo is women 40 to 65 years old. So it's, it's interesting. Also, women hold the purse. They either directly or they're influencing men to purchase, right?

From a household lens.

Yeah, from a household lens, couple lens. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't— I still drink once in a while for like a special occasion or a birthday or celebration. It was funny when you came in, we were talking before this. I'm going to a wedding this weekend.

Yeah.

And I probably drink once every like 4 months. And when I do, it's like a Negroni. Like it's nothing much. And I know this weekend is with like my college buddies. And so I know Friday and Saturday are going to be heavier drinking days than usual.

Totally.

And so for the first time, I'm like going in. I'm so glad we're meeting because I'm going to take a bunch of these with me.

I got some extra goodies for you. Don't worry about it.

And my girlfriend and I— I'm 28, she's 26, and we're both experiencing, you know, the next day after drinking. Negroni isn't as fun anymore. And so this is the first time I've gone into a weekend and I'm just strapped with like different electrolytes and different products because it's the only way that I will actually enjoy my next day.

Well, so it's an interesting thing you mentioned. Like there's been such a mindset shift If you look back a few years ago, people were— they're busy bragging about how big of a night they had. Now people brag about how good they feel, how well-rested they are. So this dynamic has actually opened the door for us a little bit more because people, you know, they're not consuming alcohol, which is great, you know what I mean? I'm— but sometimes you like to have a cocktail or two, celebratory event, whatever the case may be, um, and they need something. They look to say, okay, like, how am I going to recover? Right. And then they also limit their intake because they're more educated. So overall, this transition has been really good for health because that's what people are after. They want to brag about how good they feel. It used to be, oh, how, how, how shitty do you feel at brunch the next day?

It's interesting though, because I have a good friend, Noah Friedman, who is an alcohol-only investor. Like, he has a fund called Top Shelf and they only invest in alcohol brands.

Yeah.

And it's something that me and him talk about a lot because I obviously don't drink anymore. But he's like shouting from the rooftops because he's right. If you look at the data, drinking has not slowed down. It's like a very specific thing going on in like our little communities where like the 50 people around you have incrementally reduced the amount they drink. So all of a sudden you're like, oh, sobriety is the wave, like non-alco is the wave. Dude, there's like Middle America places where they're still just crushing through everything. And so I think that we do get distracted sometimes by like our little bubble versus reality.

Yeah.

So I'm curious to know from your perspective because I mean, you spend every day in this. How have you seen it on like a more global scale, even just within the US but outside of New York? Like, do you actually feel like drinking has gone down?

Yes and no. I think people's budget and focus, um, well, I mean, obviously the bit of cash crunch, interest rates are at an all-time high and all that, so people just have less money for discretionary spending. So as a result, they're probably spending You know, they're not buying that third or fourth cocktail at the bar, right? They might be going for one or two instead. So their bill is $40 rather than $80. But maybe they're having an ex— you know, they're having a drink at home or something of the sort. I have talked to a few friends that work for big spirits brands and companies, and they've seen that their more premium lines are not selling as well, or the numbers that they were expecting to see, they're not seeing. So I think there is a little bit of that to it, but, um, yeah, people are looking for alternatives, right? Uh, in a way. And also those who are consuming, I'd say, are looking to recover better. Um, yeah, we'll see. We'll see how this carries out because I think for a while there was this very vocal minority saying, hey, I'm not drinking anymore. It seemed like more people than they were.

Yeah.

Um, but there is a balance, right? There is a little bit of a balance.

I feel like you hit the nail on the head though, where I think the change is not necessarily the drinking piece, but more so people talk about the recovery piece and the feeling good piece more. So people are still drinking. I just think people care more about how they feel after they drink. Yeah, at least that's what I've seen. Because to your point, like, when I was in college and I played hockey in college, we would all drink 15 beers and wake up the next day and go to practice, and I was like ready to do it again. And before I stopped drinking— now I'm 28— I was like 26, 27, I would have 2 drinks. I'm like, why am I hungover for 2 days? Like, I had 2 beers, right, right, right. So I think that my body just evolved, and then my mind changes, and then my priorities change, and so my habits change. But I still think that, like, there's a lot of people who are just getting access to new education or new information around, like, recovery, which is why things like this are so available and so important.

100%. And I think it's important, like, you know, even retailers are catching on to this a little bit, that people are more concerned about feeling good the next day. So we just actually, 2 weeks ago, launched in Walmart Um, congrats, congrats, guys. Appreciate it. No, really exciting. Probably the biggest news of my personal life and professional career.

Is this the first podcast where you're announcing this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clip that. Turning pro, baby. No Days Wasted live in Walmart. You heard it here first.

Love that.

Um, but yeah, it's like the big retailers are taking notice. They've seen like, hey, you know, this segment is starting to pick up. How do we get involved? And, um, we had reached out to Walmart a while ago and they said, hey, we're— this is something we're looking at, we're more interested in, you're going to be our first. So we came in as the first ever product with DHM, dihydromyricetin, that's the, the plant extract we use as our backbone ingredient, uh, to launch on shelves in Walmart. So cool little milestone there. A lot— I mean, obviously a lot of pressure to succeed, but excited for, for the challenge and the opportunity.

I want to unpack that journey a little bit of getting into retail, not like getting into retail, but getting into Walmart. And not only that, being the first product of a category getting in. What was that process from an education perspective to teach them like, hey, first of all, here's what it is and here's what it does, and then here's why you should have it in your stores, and then them actually buying into that story and be like, all right, we agree with you, let's do it.

Yeah, I think if we were just like, because we have these three pillars, I think if we were just an alcohol-focused only brand, um, and more focused on that, and it would— the messaging came across like too binge-y, then I don't think we would have got in. But we're more aspirational, we're more about balance and achieving that balance. Um, so that part in our positioning was really good, but there was a lot of education with some of the ingredients. Um, the, you know, they have big legal and compliance teams, and they want to make sure everything they're putting on shelf is above board and approved and healthy and good for the consumers. So, you know, we work closely with the teams there, and, um, you know, our source of DHM is exactly what they wanted, um, our potency and, and everything, and the quality of it is too. So I think there's that ingredient side, there's that messaging side, and And then you find that sort of symbiotic relationship between the two. So you're not going too overboard. We don't use the H word, like we call it like hangovers being the H word, just because it's the wrong message, right? It's telling people, hey, go crazy. No, no, no. It's like, have a couple, be reasonable, and then get back to doing what you love the next day, right?

Yeah. I wanna talk about celebrating wins like Walmart. And this is something we've talked about as friends off the podcast a bunch. I feel like as a business progresses, you've been doing this for 5 years now, right? A big win like that, especially with so much going on and the fact that, you know, this is just the beginning of the story and there's so much work ahead now that we've gotten in. How do you ensure that, you know, not to use the quote, but like celebrating those wins? Do you make the time to ensure that like you're really appreciating it and journaling about it or talking to friends or going out to dinner? Or is it, at this point, you've just gotten so accustomed to things moving so fast that you give a quick fist pump and then back to work?

You know what? It's crazy, because it seems like the older we get, the more time accelerates, right? And you're like, where did the— like, it's already mid-June? Like, what happened to this year, right? So one of my first, call it wins, was getting on Dragon's Den and then having that air, which is the Canadian version of Shark Tank.

Steven Bartlett, right? Uh, was he on it back in the day?

Yeah, I think he was like a guest.

The Diary of a CEO.

I think, I think he, I think he was a guest investor. I don't think he was like part of the founding team of the show itself.

Yeah, it started I think 15 years ago. It actually— Kevin O'Leary started it, and then he started Dragon's Den. Then he— yeah, he's Canadian, and then he brought Shark Tank, uh, to the US as a spin-off.

Wait, so which one was first?

Dragon's Den in Canada was the OG.

Oh, respect.

Wow. But I love how every time someone brings up Dragon's Den though, they say it's the Shark Tank of Canada.

Yeah, exactly.

Not like Shark Tank is the Dragon's Den of the Yes.

Yeah, it doesn't have the same, you know, pop.

I guarantee if you went on the street and polled 15 people who knew what Shark Tank was, maybe 2 of them would know what Dragon's Den is.

100%. That's not very good numbers there.

Yeah, yeah.

But, uh, yeah, that was, that was one of the cool ones. And when it aired, we threw a little party, um, which was a lot of fun. Got a little cake, got a bunch of friends and supporters of the brand out. That was back in 2020. I think we, you know, there's COVID rules and all that stuff too. But since then, it's, it's been harder because you never know what's going to happen around the time that, you know, the activation goes live or the news hits or whatever. Oftentimes you can't plan for it, right? So you could be so busy that you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited by this opportunity, but I have 3 million other things to do. We'll celebrate it later. And then sometimes it gets sent to the back burner. Yeah, I mean, you do your best, I think, but at least taking that moment to slow down and acknowledge it amongst the people that you work with. I think that's really important. We'll have like little team happy hours or get-togethers. We do an annual No Days Wasted kickoff barbecue in Vancouver for the summer. Just did that a couple of weeks ago. I think we'll do a wind-down one in, in September. Um, so those moments to bring everyone together, uh, are important, but it's hard to celebrate everything along the way because sometimes you can get a lot of wins, sometimes it can be all bad. Like, who knows, right?

I also think it's because the innate, like, personality trait that a lot of successful founders have is that they, they know that, like, wins are great, but, like, it's what's the next problem that I need to solve, or, like, what's the next thing I need to do. And it's kind of this perpetual cycle where in some cases you just don't allow yourself to stop and think about the thing. Because like the example would be, okay, you got into Walmart, everyone else is like, oh my God, congrats, you got into Walmart. In your mind, like, all right, what do I need to do to make sure being in Walmart actually goes well? Not like, oh, it's so cool that I got into it. And it's like you celebrate it for a second and now it's like execution time. And then when that happens, you have the next thing that you're trying to do. And so I feel like it's really hard when you know that you are playing this game where it's like you got a base hit, but it's like, how do I just get to the top?

It's a good point. I mean, everyone's like, I post something about Walmart, they're like, oh my God, you made it. I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not, not quite yet. I don't know. Like, you know, a lot, I think, I think the whole retail game is a little thankless in the sense that you, you go to a store, you see something on shelf and you don't really think about how it got there. Right. You think you're like, oh, I'm just going to buy this.

Okay.

It's $6. All right, ring it through, pay you, boom, consume it, done. But you don't think about all the steps for a consumer product to land on the shelf and ultimately get in your hands. There's a lot. We almost didn't make our launch properly. Like we missed it, it was such a photo finish. We had a delay with product. We had to reallocate some raw materials from one place to another. And it was a whole process. And I was losing sleep every day. I think I got 150 new gray hairs 'cause of this. But eventually we made it and then product landed on shelf. Literally just in the nick of time. And it was, it was wild. And now on to the next part of this journey is how do we ensure we're successful in Walmart? How do we ensure we sell through and hit the benchmarks they want us to and then exceed them so we can get more stores and really turn this into, you know, strong business with them?

Can you talk about that a little bit? I don't actually know that much about the whole retail game. Like what, what are the levers that you're pulling to try to ensure the sell-through piece? And then what piece of that is just you as a business? And then what— is there any piece of it where like Walmart is supporting you with some sort of marketing initiatives?

Yeah, 100%. Um, I'd say if you're in the CPG space and you're trying to launch solely in retail out of the gate as a new brand, it's almost an impossible feat unless you have, uh, a co-founder that's a celebrity or an unlimited or a chest of capital, because that awareness for someone to say, oh, I want No Days Wasted, this— I go to ILG, uh, OTC, right by the pharmacy where the vitamins and supplements are. That's where we are, by the way. Um, to know to go there, they have to be very deliberate in their action. And you go to a store like Walmart and you say, okay, well, there's a million things in here, how do I know where to go? And most of the time it's all the— it's what's in your face, right? That you're looking at, what has the sale price tag, sale tag, or, or all that. So the having an established community like a large email base, SMS list, customer base, somewhere where your community lives, an Instagram account where you can make these announcements and get that engagement. You need to have all of that and you share it with, with your community and, you know, cross your fingers a little bit and hope they go, they go buy and support, right? And you give it, you got to give them a good reason to as well. But Walmart does it and big retailers, they do certain programs. It's more on the promotional side of things. So, you know, if you're getting a little bit of foot traffic, you're getting that sale tag, that 2-for offer or something like that. But a lot of it's on the brand.

I think a big component of it too, especially in specialty retailers like an Erewhon. I have a lot of beverage founder friends that get into Erewhon and they're all excited. And then they see their product and it's next to like 10 of slightly different product variations all on the same wall next to them. And then, you know, experienced entrepreneurs have been doing this for 20 years or similar to you. It's like, that's just the first step. Now we got to sell through. Now we got to market and sell it to our list to get people in the door. But is that ever kind of a scary feeling where you hit that milestone and then you're like, okay, now we're competing with the other, you know, I'm sure in 5 years there'll be other electrolyte brands in Walmart.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. There are a good handful of electrolyte brands already there. Um, in our— in this space for sort of like the recovery space, there are less, but I think competition is great. I think for an emerging category, um, like ours for example, having good competitors is critical in raising that awareness because then people know solutions like this exist. If there's just one, they're gonna be like, oh, this is niche. This is probably doesn't work. This is not legit, right?

More education.

Yeah, I mean, the other, the other brands with the same, um, product, like, they're doing some marketing for you because it's driving foot traffic to the aisle at the very least. And then it's, it's on you to have better packaging, better messaging, for them to like be drawn to the aisle because of another product. Like, oh wait, like, what's this? I mean, I do it all the time. It's like, I, you know, I like to drink Olipop, uh, but I'll go to a store and I'll be like, oh, this Poppy looks good. Like, I'll just like impulsively grab a different drink, even though it was like one of them brought me there.

I think it allows you to focus on building the best product. I think this goes for agencies, this goes for B2B, this goes for services business. If other players are in the space building that awareness and kind of popularizing certain terms, then all of a sudden if you actually have the best product, it's just better for you. If you don't, then it's a problem.

Yeah, I mean, it goes back to like this rising tide raises all ships. Very cliché, but it's completely true, right? I think you look at like legacy brands like Coke and Pepsi, if there was just one or the other, they wouldn't be as successful as they are today, right? So I think that's critical, having really good competitors. The problem with the world we live in is it's easy to launch. Like there's a lot of people that just launch brands and come in and go crazy out of the gate, but they're kind of a flash in the pan, like here today, gone tomorrow. Those people, those organizations are not helping the cause. You want to find the ones that have the real mission and purpose and are solving the problem for the right reasons, because they're more likely to stay. And then it's a journey, right? We're 5 and a half years in, and in some ways, it feels like we just started yesterday, and this is the beginning. So I think it's really important in that regard to have good competitors.

How do you think about the distribution between retail and e-comm for your business specifically? I imagine it varies drastically by category. Like, obviously beverage is really hard online just because of how expensive it is.

Yeah.

Um, and then like frozen, it's like impossible.

Yeah.

Uh, but how do you think about like the split between the two for your business?

Yeah, I think it's, it's wild because you look at consumer sentiment in 2024 and you say, okay, well, I'll use an example. If you go to the grocery store You're generally not going to 6, 7 other grocery stores to buy the 6, 7 other items you need, right? You are gonna fill up your basket in one place. Time is our most valuable asset. Goes back to why No Days Wasted is so important. But you don't want to be buying from 10 different places, right? So that's where marketplaces are so good. Amazon— people can get their favorite brands all in one place. Delivered tomorrow, sometimes same day, right? So Amazon for us has been a bit of a bigger player recently. We used to be mostly like 80% our e-commerce store. Now things are shifting a bit. Uh, we're still mostly online, about 70-75%, um, but then now with Walmart and some other bigger retailers, uh, B2B and wholesale is becoming really important, um, and, and is growing for us. My ultimate goal is actually to —to get on Platter. We've had some talks. We've had some talks here. No, I'm joking. But is to get our retail to about 60% of our sales and then 40% e-comm. So we have some growing to do in all parts, but I think that can happen. Because ultimately, it's got to be omnichannel in this day and age. You're not going to succeed one way or the other. I know a lot of time we're running Facebook ads. And if we're running more Facebook ads, we see spillover into Amazon because people use Facebook ads now to— for product discovery rather than direct conversion. Right. And then they go buy on whatever the most streamlined path of least resistance sales channel is.

I think it depends on category though. I'm like, I know a couple of brands. I know one in particular which I'm not going to name because what I'm about to say next, but like they have only been around for like less than 2 years. It's a pet supplement company. Okay. The one SKU. They're above a $25 million run rate, like 80% subscription revenue with one SKU. And it's only online. And I asked them, I was like, are you going to like go into retail? They're like, not like right now, probably not. Because our like Facebook acquisition, like the math is just so great. It's such a retention strong business because of what they're selling that they're like, it's— I think it's a distraction for us. Yeah, I totally agree with that.

I mean, there's certain businesses like in supplements, even a green— Big Greens company that we all know. They're the same model, right? I do think it is very risky to do that if you don't have your ducks in a row.

Yeah, the dependency risk is that 100%. I mean, like, think of like iOS 14. Yeah, what is like the next iteration of some big blowup where all these brands are like looking at each other, not sure what to do if you're all in on one acquisition channel.

But brands like that, they're not even on, uh, like marketplaces like Amazon. Yeah, right there. They're like No, just our sales channel. You want it? Where they create this exclusivity. And I think that that's— you either go— it's one end or the other of the extremes, right? You're either everywhere or you're only in one place. And if you want us, this is where you come get us. But once you start to trickle out into other places, it dilutes that approach, right? So you would have to then go everywhere. Yeah.

Niche electrolyte question. You're one of the only people that I think will have an informed opinion here. Yeah. I feel like over the past 3 months, maybe, Element came out with ready-to-drink sparkling. Mm-hmm. The guys behind Daring Foods and Represent started Cadence. Mm-hmm. Ross, I forget his last name. McKay. Yes, Ross McKay. And then Iman Gadji is building like an electrolyte sparkling water, Big Day. Interesting. Is this the next emerging, you know, product SKU within the electrolyte category? Is this going to keep growing? Why do you think people are moving towards RTD?

Well, I think the RTD thing is— I think Poppi and Olipop and those guys have led the way and like, okay, let's reinvent the classic nostalgic soda flavors that we all love, but make them like reduce the sugar significantly. Whether they're good for you or not, they're just not bad for you. And maybe they have some probiotics, whatever they have. I think, you know, there's still— there's— it's still so convenient to just grab something from the cooler. It's cold, it's a hot day, rather than grabbing a bottle, pouring it in. For us, we're like, there's two different use cases, right? It's like, I'm always carrying a water bottle with me, so I always want to have a packet of this. I never buy RTDs, ever. Um, it's just because I like to drink water first, and then I like to drink water, like functional water, second, um, or alongside of that. But yeah, I think RTDs, it's from a convenience point of view and consumers are looking for more function. They're having, they're having their day in the sun. But the truth is you need a lot of capital to run those businesses because— and also the influence of getting them on shelf. You need to be able to get on shelf too.

Yeah, I will say Hot Day Cold Celsius from a bodega. Yeah, one of the best tastes.

I love that.

Uh, another thing I want to talk about with you because I think you've done something that not many people have done, which is like bootstrap your brand to where you are today. Yeah. Uh, I would love for you to go a little bit into detail on like the challenges with doing that, and then also what you're seeing in the market. I know we were talking about this before we started recording of just money is not easy to come by today in the consumer world. So would love for you to dive into like what your challenges are and then maybe any advice you have for any other brand founders listening who are maybe struggling to raise capital.

100%. Um, I'll kind of rewind a few years back here, but we launched originally with a crowdfunding campaign. We used Indiegogo, and they take something like 8% to 10% of your overall sales. But it's an almost no-risk platform in the sense that if you have a concept you want to prove out, go up there, put a video out, tell your brand story, tell people— well, you're not a brand at that point, but share the problem you're solving and convince people to preorder your product at a discount. That's the value they're getting, and maybe get other rewards along with it. but also bring your business to life. So back in 2018, we did a crowdfunding campaign. We did $30K in sales in 45 days that funded our first production run. I put in about $6,000 to get that whole thing going. Um, and we were able to get our first 5,000 10-pack units of DHM Detox. Um, and that had, you know, to be in the supplement space, you have to be over 75% gross margin. Because it's hypercompetitive, but also you got to make some money, right, and acquire the customers, right? And that was our launch point. And then we discovered podcast advertising. It was a direct response form of marketing where really you'd run the podcast ad, and within 3 days, you'd know essentially 90% of sales would come in, and you'd know if it was successful or not. So we ran things really lean. It was like 2 employees for the longest time. All of our partners were contracted with respect to running ads, warehousing, manufacturing, all that stuff. So really, the overhead wasn't there. It was all variable costs along the way. And yeah, I mean, it was— and we had this amazing cash conversion cycle, right? So we were bringing the money in before we have to pay the bills. Now, that's a lot harder to do. But wherever you can extend the terms, I think that's important when you're bootstrapping. And that's how Gymshark did it too, actually. Gymshark— Are they fully bootstrapped? Originally, they were, right? They brought on some capital a little while back.

Don't quote me on this. Just like a little growth round?

Just a little $100 million?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like a billion-plus-dollar company now. But they had worked that out where they didn't have to pay their suppliers until they had sold through most of their inventory. And then at that same time, they were supplying them with the next set of inventory. So having that negative cash conversion cycle is what it is, can propel businesses. Just like on the flip side, if it's the opposite of that, you're going to have a lot more bills to pay before you have cash in the door. So it depends on what you're after.

Was there ever a moment in that journey where you were tempted to take in money?

Well, I personally have seen so many horror stories of CPG brands raising too early, pre-revenue, this, this, and that, that I didn't want to take that obligation on. At some point here, we'll probably have to do a little bit of a raise, but I wasn't excited to do that early on because it also is a responsibility you have. You have responsibility to the shareholders that you bring in. It's a, yeah, a bit of a liability, right? I think building that relationship with a handful of people over the last 3 to 4 years that took interest in, in No Days Wasted as a business, those are the people that are coming in because they know me. They're not just blind capital. We have that rapport and they're bought in, right? I think that's important rather than just taking money.

So I think every founder I know, probably everyone that's been on this podcast, but especially bootstrap founders, you bootstrapped it. You brought on a little bit of capital. I bootstrapped for the past couple of years. I love it. Especially bootstrap founders. I feel like have a higher frequency of, oh shit, the business is over moments just because cash and like margins are so constrained. And so you've been doing this for 5+ years now, bootstrapped the whole way. I'm sure you've had a few of those moments. Oh yeah. Can you walk us through some of those where you weren't sure if this was going to work?

Yeah, sometimes it's like it has to do with production. You know, you gotta, like our manufacturers would tell us a date product's gonna be done by. We're kind of threading the needle with when we run out of stock and when the next batch is coming in. So we wouldn't stop selling product. We would just notify our customers and be like, hey, look, your order might be a little bit delayed because we're restocking. But sometimes these manufacturers would be like, oh, we had a delay. "Oh, our machine broke down," or, you know what I mean? "Oh, we misplaced something," or whatever the case may be. And it was like, oh my gosh, all of our, we're getting emails and emails and emails saying like, "Where's my product? Are you a fake company? This is not." I'm like, "No, we're pretty legit. You've been getting our product for years, but this just happened." Most of the time people are very understanding, especially if they're loyal customers. But we've had moments where there's a large influx of inquiries and then we didn't really know when the product was going to come. And on a platform, you can continue to sell on your own website, but on a platform like Amazon, you can't sell inventory you don't have. So every day you're not there, it's lost revenue. So there's been a couple instances of that over the last few years that I want to avoid threading that needle. But yeah, it's never a dull moment. Thickens your skin a little bit. It also gives you some insight into how to improve your business, right?

Yeah. When those moments happen, or even like you just got on Walmart, now you have all this work to do to fulfill it and make sure it goes well. Yeah. You were talking about rest and recovery earlier. What does that look like for you? What does your sleep routine, fitness routine, nutrition look like?

Yeah, I think I'm a big— well, first of all, big no lunch guy during the week. Oh yeah. Because I, I like a good nap here and there. Like, a 20-minute nap is something I've mastered to recharge myself. But if I eat in the middle of the day, it's just too much blood rushes to my gut and my brain turns off and I need to rest. So I, I just go hard with electrolytes. And if I have bone broth close by, some fruit— banana and apple. Um, I just had a banana and before this, and I have electrolytes in my water bottle. So, uh, but rest generally like 6 to 8 hours, whatever you can get. If I'm under like 5, usually pretty rough.

Oh my God, if I'm under 7, it's rough for me.

Yeah, I love it. I mean, that's the thing, everybody has their sweet spot, right? So figure out what works best for you. Um, but 6, 8 hours, um, hydrating first thing in the morning before my coffee. What time are you up? Uh, 6:30. Alarm or just Um, most of the time I'll wake up like 2 or 3 minutes before my alarm. Oh, that's the worst. Yeah, it's not even the stress though, it's the, uh, it's just like you've conditioned— it's your circadian rhythm, you've conditioned yourself. Um, but yeah, I mean, I— we have a sleep product called Sleep Assist, magnesium-based. I take that every night and it helps me get that deeper REM. Uh, overall my, my sleep does more for me. Um, and Yeah, and then, I mean, try to not go to bed too late. I'd rather get up early and go to bed a little earlier and get up early rather than do the opposite, go to bed late and get up.

So you're like 11 to 6? 11 to 6:30. Do you work out in the morning or at night?

Uh, that fluctuates. Um, he's a ball player. Yeah, so it depends on when I can get on the court too, and that's usually in the evening. Um, but there'll be a couple days a week I'll work out in the morning, but most of the time Um, I'll work out in the, in the evening.

Is it lifting, running?

What's your thing? Uh, I like to lift actually for my legs. I don't like lift heavy or anything. Uh, I've had some knee injuries, so I do— I don't know if you know Knees Over Toes guy on Instagram. No, really? You don't know him?

Yeah. Oh, that dude's a legend.

He's like 40-something and he can throw down, he can dunk.

I did a couple of his workouts like last week because I hurt my knee and I found out it was actually— I pulled my hamstring and I had severe knee pain from it, which is like the weirdest thing in the world. It never happened before. It was like behind my knee and I couldn't bend my leg when I woke up one day and I was like, what the hell is wrong with my knee? And I went and saw someone and they're like, you pulled your hamstring. And I was doing like knees over toes exercises. It's insane.

So you build a lot of strength in the, in the lower part of your quad and to take a lot of the pressure off your, your knees. Um, so I've had some meniscus challenges, but yeah, I mean, that's what my leg workouts consist of. So various It's like any movement that you could do where your knees are going to go past your toes. So like lunges, squats, and stuff like that. Generally, you don't go too heavy of the weight. You build it up. And it's more about that mobility and the function and flexibility. And then, yeah, so like working out 3 to 5 times a week, playing ball a couple of times a week. And that's an ideal— that's an ideal sort of situation.

I feel like you're super ingrained in the health and wellness space because you embody it. You live it with your business and your lifestyle. What are a couple other brands that you're excited about that you like pay attention to what they're doing?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, a lot of— I really like a lot of the sort of like coffee brands because I drink a lot of coffee. So good buddies with Rise Brewing. They're here from the— Crushing. Northeast. They're everywhere. The founder's amazing guy, Justin. They have great products. They taste good. Uh, their Nitro Cold Brew just gets me fired up.

Um, I got to try that. I've never had it.

You got to get like orangey yellow cans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whole Foods and a bunch of places.

Yeah, in a bunch of places. Um, we'll see if we can, uh, we'll get some over to you. Um, and honestly, that's a great question. I like it. Like Tesla is a legacy favorite brand for me. I used to work for Tesla back in the day. I have an older Tesla Model S, and it's like the car ages like fine wine, and I have no expenses with it. So like no paying for gas, um, no real maintenance. Um, I'm a simple guy, to be honest though. Like, I don't really buy a whole lot. Uh, I'm, I'm more on the sales side of things. So yeah, so once I found something like I like, I stick to it. Um, like for example, we were talking about meat. Every, every year I purchase half a cow, split it with my buddies, a full lamb, and we have our own grass-fed, um, great meat sitting in our freezer. So whenever we want to cook, got something there.

Dude, no way. Wait, do they send like freeze-dried meats from different parts of the cow?

It's so— it's basically the whole cow, and the butcher will chop it all up and pre-portion it all, um, and pack it.

How much does the cow cost? So in this market?

Yeah, in this economy, It's actually a good friend of mine from high school. She's a rancher up north in British Columbia, 8 hours away. Um, so she has a ranch. Um, but about $10 to $12 per pound, um, for, for the beef, like bone out, something like that. What are cows like?

I was just gonna say, this is a stupid question, how much does a cow weigh?

Probably. So, so half a cow, we're getting 200 pounds of meat. So about just from a couple. Yeah. So, and I split that. Should we get it?

Should we get a cow? You guys should do it, man.

I mean, honestly, on the roof next to the sauna. How much?

A cow typically weighs between 1,000 and 1,800, but that's 1,000 pounds with the bones. Yeah, so we're getting like—

yeah, would you say 200? Half a cow, you're getting— I just chose not to speak because I was like, I know I'm gonna make myself look dumb because I have no clue how much they weigh. Blowing my mind. I appreciate you taking my— taking my fall.

A dog is like what, 60 pounds or something?

Yeah, so it depends on the brand of the dog. The brand of like the type, I don't know, brand type.

What brand of dog do you want?

Portuguese Water Dog. It's my choice of dog. Gorgeous, great dog.

Actually, a buddy of mine got one and really had some trouble raising at the Portuguese Water Dog. Yeah, like training it. It was like, oh dude, they're sneaky.

They're really—

they're expensive too. Yeah, they are. His might have been an Italian.

They're bougie.

Are there different water dogs? I know there's some sort of water dog.

Portuguese water dog is like the OG. The dark ones, right? Uh, they have light ones too, but yeah, I would say predominantly. I feel like I like the light brand. Yeah, discount.

But yeah, I mean, you get the best meat for cheap and you're supporting someone and supporting local, and then also you know what you're putting in your body. So pretty cognizant of that. I like to do big, big dinners. I like to cook a lot and bring people together, so I'll do a slow cook of something. Um, we'll do like birria taco night or something like that. Uh, and it gives you actually appreciation for the animal quite a bit more because you're getting all the cuts. You're not just like, oh, I'm getting ribeyes and I'm just eating ribeyes all day. There's like a few ribeyes in there. Um, you're— you have all the different cuts, so you know how to cook them. It's a— it's a cool creative outlet. What's your favorite cut? Well, depends on the mood. I mean, like, for me, it's always that that ribeye, that nice marbled piece. Tenderloins are good too, obviously another premium piece, but you could take like a chuck roast and throw it in the slow cooker for 6 to 8 hours and it comes out just shredded and beautiful and so tender. So yeah, that's, that's what I like.

In terms of specific supplements, I was just in Miami at my parents' place, and whenever I'm down there, I'll go to like Whole Foods and get a bunch of different supplements that have just come out. and for like 2 weeks straight I was making smoothies with, um, colostrum and collagen supplements. And I, I don't know if it was placebo because when I was doing that, I was also eating like a lot of grass-fed beef and I was working out every day and I felt good. Yeah. And then I stopped doing it here, but I kept doing like the healthy living, working out. I couldn't— I don't know if I'm not doing it for long enough, but I could not tell if I felt any better. Are there any specific supplements that you're like, no, those are very legit. You just need to do them for a long time.

Well, that's tricky because, um, yeah, I put collagen in my little smoothie if I, if I get around to like making a shake, a protein shake or something after a workout. Um, sometimes I'll actually whip it into my coffee, like the milk I put in my coffee, like almond milk, collagen, honey, like couple, uh, squirts of like a mushroom tincture or something. Um, but I'd say 100% electrolytes are the most important thing. That's why we're seeing this day and age. Uh, ours are great because also there's a little bit of sugar, and you need that sugar to effectively absorb the electrolytes. Um, but collagen, I've always wondered, like, because I've— you never really notice anything like specific, right? Your hair looks pretty good. Thank you.

The colostrum wave right now is crazy.

But does it actually work? I have no idea.

I don't know, but we have multiple brands that we just started working with that are colostrum products.

I take it almost every day, and I have not felt any I've known you take colostrum.

Yeah, I've never tried it before. Trying the Armor Up. I know the brands if you want, if you're interested. What's the—

so the main function there, it's like similar to— or like what, what are they claiming it, it's gonna do?

I have no idea. No idea. I have no idea.

It's even worse for him to say that because he's like, I take it every day.

I'm buying it. I'm their primary customer.

He's like, I heard 10 people say you should be taking colostrum. She's like, I'm at the store. That's how things like this move in Walmart. It's true. Just sit and talk to your buddies like, oh, you need to try this product.

Well, this is the thing for us though, we try and be more on the functional side of it. So you're gonna I don't want to just make a bunch of supplements that are like, hey, take this every day and you may live longer, you may feel a little better. No, it's like, hey, take this, this is what it does, this is how it's going to help you. Um, I like that element of supplementation, uh, because a lot of the things that we need we can get from the foods we eat, right?

Yeah, creatine's having a big— I take my Create gummies every day. Shout out Create.

There we go. I feel like there's 4— you gotta try Create.

Yeah, I have some in the cupboard. I'm gonna snatch a few.

I've heard really good things.

So the sour Got me one.

I haven't tried the sour apple. Dad, if you're listening, I would love to try some of this. Get them over here.

We'll do a swap, a little electrolyte for creatine in the back alley.

Just some exchange. Of, of all the supplements, I'm curious to get your takes. Of all the supplements I've tried that you can feel, you can like feel it the next day or the, or the same day. Electrolytes, after you have a pack, you feel better within 5 minutes, which I think is really fascinating. Second, magnesium and supplements before sleep. You can tell the next day if you had deeper sleep. Yeah. Third, create. If you do it for like a week, you can definitely tell if you're lifting a lot, your muscles get bigger. And then for obviously, if you're just taking like a ton of protein, you can tell again if you're lifting that you're getting stronger. Outside of those, are there any that you guys have noticed that like it is a real impact on you?

I mean, other than obviously the use case of DHM, plug in my own brand, right? But it's hard to say. Uh, the mushroom products I like, um, but I haven't really noticed anything either. Like the coffee replacements, though, it's hard to say if those do much.

I take a lot of vitamin D. Vitamin D?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I know I have an aggressive deficiency. I think, I think most people do, actually.

Yeah, I mean, like the daily—

I don't actually know. Let me take a step back. I don't actually know the impact of it because one of the challenges— I take a handful of supplements, so it's really hard for someone to ask that question and me to isolate like it was that one that made me feel this way. But I know it's doing something because I know I have a pretty big deficiency of it.

Yeah, I think the coffee replacements are interesting because I remember during the pandemic I did MudWTR for a bit. Yeah. And I was like, I'm feeling great. It was just because I stopped caffeine. That was the only reason. And then I switched to a different one and I felt just as good and I was like, I just stopped drinking as much caffeine.

Right, that's fair. And then I'm like, the people that don't drink coffee, I'm like, how are you awake right now? That's what I always ask. I actually didn't really drink—

I actually didn't really drink coffee. I drank one every game when I played hockey, and then I didn't really drink a lot of coffee until I stopped playing hockey— or sorry, until I stopped drinking. Then you started— I started— yeah, I started caffeine when I stopped alcohol. Interesting. I think it was because I needed a vice or something, I'm not really sure, but I wasn't ever a big coffee drinker, and now I I was actually talking to someone about this the other day. It was like, I like the culture of coffee. Yeah, I like the idea of like sitting down with a buddy or whatever, sitting out in the backyard and just like sipping on a nice coffee. And I was like, that's actually a really valid point.

I mean, it brings people together. That's like where the cooking comes in. That's where any socializing— if there's something you can create and bring people together, I think you're, you're doing cold plunging coffees.

Did we do them on Saturdays? I missed every single one. I know. Founderwellness.nyc. If you're a founder and want to come hang at a Cold plunge of coffee.

Last question for you before we wrap. We got to talk about turning pro moments. Yeah, you've been at this for a while. Were there any specific days, months, maybe you can look back in hindsight that you noticed yourself kind of growing up, operating very differently? Maybe it could be sales, it could be leadership, but really noticed a change in yourself about how seriously you took yourself and kind of carried yourself different as a leader?

Yeah, I think that's how like that evolution is happening constantly because, well, for example, for right now we're at a point where what got us to where we are today is not going to take us to the next level. So now we're constantly reinventing ourselves. Um, so, you know, you, you feel like you've grown up and done that all, and then you're humbled pretty quickly to saying, hey, we need to figure things out again. Right? Um, it has happened over the last couple years where, you know, I think, yeah, we really hit a major milestone, and I'd say more times than I can count. But then at the same time, you're, you're hit with that, like, okay, well, now it's time to level up. Um, so I don't know if I answered your question correctly, but that's— it's an, it's an evolution, right? And it's constantly changing. The— this words I live by is the only thing that's consistent is change in life. So being open, adaptable, and ready for change will ensure that you're not sort of— you don't get lost along the way, and you're always looking to solve the problems.

Love that. Yeah. It's a great place to end. Do you want to look at the camera, let everyone know where they can find you, what you're working on? Awesome.

So No Days Wasted is available at nodayswasted.com. We actually acquired that domain after 5 and a half years just now, and we are available on walmart.com in, uh, 271 Walmarts across the country. You can say that again, that—

where that— you can repeat that a second time, it's so good, the Walmart piece.

Oh yeah, yeah, make sure people know. So we're available at Walmart. We need your support, your love. If you didn't know by now, um, in the vitamin supplements aisle with our hydration replenisher and DHM detox. Um, our website, nodayswasted.com, and also amazon.com, um, if you need some delivery. Quick delivery in the city. We're Dashmart and GoPuff. Um, and check out our store locator, nodayswasted.com. Appreciate you guys. Honestly, this was a blast. Life's a journey, man, and businesses too. You guys are doing a great job and appreciate you having me on today. Thanks, man.

Yeah, this is a blast.