#046: 10 Years, 36 Million Bottles: How Fair Harbor Turned Ocean Trash into Swimwear Treasure

the only way to sell product was through trunk shows. So we reached out to every retailer, every stand-up paddleboard competition, every sailboat comp— like we just tried to get our name out. We just started to create that energy around the brand and the product. Our PR was working. And so I think just like all of that coming together with the volume and the product being out in the wild, people loving the product and that word of mouth. So people, once they love a product, they were talking to their friends and it just like, it created this life of its own. I don't think there was one thing specifically, but it was just like this whole effect coming together.

Caroline Danahy, co-founder and chief brand officer at Fair Harbor, is making waves in the fashion industry with her commitment to sustainability and innovation. Founded in 2014 while she was still in high school, Fair Harbor specializes in creating stylish and eco-friendly swimwear and apparel from recycled plastic bottles. Alongside her brother Jake, Caroline has driven the company's mission to reduce oceanic plastic waste by transforming it into high-quality clothing. In this episode, we explore Caroline's entrepreneurial journey and the evolution of the brand. Caroline shares the brand's origin story, highlighting their childhood summers in the town of Fair Harbor and how these experiences shaped their dedication to sustainability. We delve into the strategic decisions that propelled their growth from bootstrapping and grassroots trunk shows to recycling over 36 million plastic bottles. Welcome back to Season 2, Episode 9 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have Caroline Danahy, who is the Chief Brand Officer and co-founder of Fair Harbor. Thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, guys.

So I told you before we hit record, you don't even know what the backstory of this is.

Apparently it goes back a long time.

She is like one of the most iconic entrepreneurs to come out of Colgate University. It's a true story.

Wait, so you guys met in college?

Yes. Oh, she is literally one of— and she'll like sit here and laugh and be humble about it. So I'm going to hype her up. She is like one of the poster children of starting a company in the entrepreneurship program at Colgate University.

Wow. Wait, give me a little butterflies over here. Thanks.

So you met Ben like you've known him since like freshman year? Yeah. Well, no, my freshman year.

Junior, your sophomore year, a grade above, grade above.

Thank you for correcting the hockey.

Well, because, you know, it takes us longer to get through education. Yeah, a couple years, grade above. Uh, I think I'm maybe a year older, whatever, not the point. She's still— I mean, she can tell the full story, but the quick 2 seconds is that she started the company with her brother while she was at Colgate. And it's like, to have this entrepreneur program, it's a liberal arts school that I would say leans a lot more— and you probably agree with this— a lot more towards like corporate America of like consulting, banking, and there's like this little program called Thought to Action at Colgate. And I would say there's like on probably one or two hands the number of companies that have like made it to where you are now. And so I've always looked up to what her and her brother have done because I think it's amazing. But I'll shut up now and let you tell the full story of how you got to where you are today.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that intro. And thanks again for having me. Our relationship definitely goes back a few years, so this is a full circle moment. Yeah, so I actually started Fair Harbor when I was in high school, so it's been 10 years. It's actually our 10th year anniversary, which is crazy enough.

Congrats.

Thank you. I feel like I've been doing it my whole life at this point. But yeah, just to kind of give you an overview quickly of Fair Harbor, why we started it. Fair Harbor is actually a small town, which not a lot of people know. It's off the coast of Long Island, a place called Fire Island, which is actually essentially a glorified sandbar. So the island itself is about 20 miles long but only 100 yards wide at certain points. So essentially when you're there, you can quite literally see the bay from the ocean, the ocean to the bay. There's no cars. Have you guys— have you been to Fire Island, either one of you?

No.

All right, so highly recommend. It's actually only like a 50-minute drive from the city and then a 20-minute ferry ride from there.

15-minute drive?

50.

5-0. I was like, it can't be that close.

No, no, a little bit further, but like compared to like the Hamptons or any other beach towns around New Jersey Shore, it's much quicker in my opinion. There's no cars on the whole island, so everyone's riding around on bikes, walking around barefoot. You quite literally can go into the supermarket barefoot in a bikini and like no one will look twice. It's awesome. Actually, the town of Fair Harbor, there's a general store, there's a grocery store, and that's about it.

You can't bring cars on the island?

No cars. There's like construction workers like during the off-season, but during the regular season no one has cars. So anyways, as we grew up, we saw more and more plastic waste wash up onto the shores and onto our beaches. And as little kids, you know, you see things, you witness things, but you don't really know what to do with that feeling and that action. But it was a place that we loved, and Fire Island and Fair Harbor has always been our place. Growing up, I was the resident tree hugger of the family, so I would yell at everyone to turn the light bulbs on or lights off, bring recyclable bags to the grocery store. I didn't eat meat from when I was like 7 until I was a junior in college. I would go to different, like, activism events, and it was very into environmentalism. And then I also developed a strong passion for, for fashion, and I had a fashion blog all throughout high school and middle school. Um, and then my brother, who played lacrosse at Colgate, he was— he's 3 years older than me, and he started studying geography and learning more about plastic waste and its impact in our environment, and specifically our ecosystems and our waterways. And so during his studies, he found this polyester directly made from recycled plastic bottles. And because of— he knew that my strong interest in fashion and environmentalism, he kind of turned to me, he's like, we really need to start something to help solve this problem. And so with that, we created the brand of Fair Harbor, specifically inspired by our childhood experiences. Um, and we started off with a single pair of board shorts through TIA, through Thought Into Action, um, that Ben referred to earlier. And we bootstrapped, so we put a bunch of board shorts in the back of my brother's car, drove up and down the East Coast talking to everyone and anyone that would hear our story. And yeah, we did over 500 trunk shows in the early summers. So it was just the two of us on the road and that's kind of, long story short, where we started. And now we've recycled almost over 36 million plastic bottles into our products and it's our mission to protect the places you love. So while Fair Harbor's our place, everyone has that spot and it's been quite a journey.

That's an incredible backstory. But the one thing that I want to talk about is that kind of nostalgic feeling that you're talking about of, I guess, Fair Harbor, which is a separate island next to Fire Island.

So it's actually a town on Fire Island.

Town on Fire Island. So tell me more about that nostalgic childhood feeling, because even just going to the website, like, there are a ton of fashion brands out there and everyone has a slightly different vibe. And even the ones that are trying to go kind of maybe the more old school, like J.Crew reinvention, nostalgic route. Some of them are just so overly produced where when I went on your site earlier before this for research, it just immediately, it wasn't contrived and it wasn't trying to do like crazy photo shoots. It just seemed very pure. And that was like the immediate vibe I get as Chief Brand Officer. I'm sure that's cultivated. But tell me more about that, like early nostalgic feeling that you're trying to capture.

Yeah, I appreciate that. And, you know, I think Authenticity is definitely a buzzword that's used a lot right now. And you know, consumers trying to connect with a brand that they can relate to, that they can connect to. But for us, like, I don't know if it was drawn out of being naive and not knowing what we were doing in the beginning. Like, it's not like Jake and I went to school to start a company or to be entrepreneurs or to start an apparel brand like this. We started because we had a problem. We identified a problem. And we felt so passionate about the solution. And the brand of Fair Harbor is our lives. It's our childhood, it's our family. It's the waking our dad up at 5 AM to go fishing on bamboo poles and going back to our house and making snapper and eggs. And the freedom of Fair Harbor where we rode around on bikes all day. Our parents did not care where we went or what we did, but as long as we came back at 5 o'clock for dinner, we were good. And I think that there's this sense of nostalgia that comes with it because everyone wants to close their eyes and experience experience that childhood, a sense of freedom. And so when we think about how do we connect, it's like that authentic relationship that everyone has through those memories of being a kid. So I know that feeling that it gives me, and probably you when you're sitting here, and it's that freedom of that connectivity too between emotions that I think is so strong when you actually like dial into that, those moments that hopefully can bring people together through that optimism.

And while you're talking, I was thinking about it Do you know any brother-sister combos who've started a company but not only started it, like excelled at it and have built something to the level that they have?

None that come to mind.

Do you know— have you like crossed paths with any others just by nature of like being one of the ones that actually did it?

You know, it's funny because like, I, I don't think we necessarily know personally any brother-sister combo. I'm trying to think now. My brother, if he was sitting here, I'm sure he knows one or two or a few. But I think like, I don't know, I couldn't even imagine starting a company without my sibling too, and like without my brother, like the level of like trust and respect, like it can be lonely sometimes being a founder and to like have him be there every step of the way. You know, I think it's definitely, it's definitely been special to have our whole family involved too.

But what, I mean, I'm more curious, I think, The obvious thing is that when things are going well, it's, it's easy to get along. But I, I'm not— no, there's no company where when you build it, every single day was like this. I'm sure you guys have had hard conversations, you've had stressful situations. What are those moments like? Like, how do you maintain that, like, level of respect? Or are there, like, principles or values or rules that you guys have to, like, respect each other's boundaries as siblings outside of, like, business building?

Uh, boundaries? I don't— we're working on boundaries.

Um, like, it's funny, she's, like, probably at, like, dinner with her boyfriend on, like, Saturday night at PM, and Jake's like, yo, I need this, like, where are you? Answer your phone.

He's just like, yeah, there's— and it goes back and forth. Like, the idea too of like boundaries, I think, in any family that don't really exist. But as I said, we're working on it. I think, you know, it's funny because during COVID we all lived under the same roof. So like, we all moved home. It was like 10 of us at one point living under my parents' house, and my parents' house is not that big, so we were all like squished in. And I remember a few nights I would— and I I'm like an early riser. I get all my work done in the morning. I can't do work past a certain time at night. I like need to close my laptop. I get a little, little— yeah, no one wants to really be around me when I get tired. But my brother would like come in after I went to sleep, be like, Caroline, I thought of something. Like, can you, can you get up and turn the lights on? I was like, you got to be fucking kidding.

You got to get out of my room.

I was like, what are you doing? And so after that, I was like, okay, you can't, can't do that anymore. But, but I think like overall COVID had we were scaling a lot. There was a lot of pressure on us to keep keeping up with inventory and content. And there was so much stuff that we— it was just a small team. So we had to do what we had to do. But now I think as we both got significant others— he's engaged. He has a fiancée. My boyfriend just moved in. I think with having significant others too and having life outside of family and life outside of Fair Harbor, it's helped create those boundaries. In full honesty, from a personal side, But I think, you know, the root of any good relationship is communication in my perspective. And as long as you can communicate and have those times and look, it's not— hasn't always been easy. I think that would be me lying here if I said that. But I think being able to have those conversations, work through things and then be strong together and not, you know, look the other way, I think that's really kind of what's allowed us to continue pushing forward and grow together. Like, I'm not the same person I was when I was a senior in high school and same with Jake. But I think as long as we can communicate and keep ourselves honest along the way, it's That's been huge.

What about with the rest of the family? So you have another sibling. Obviously your parents are at the forefront of like having two of their kids build a business together. Like, is there any sort of separation even at like a family dinner time?

Um, once again, we're trying on it, we're trying to work on that. Um, but no, I think, you know, we try to be respectful. And in the beginning, like as I mentioned, we bootstrapped. So we packed and shipped all the products at my parents' garage and up until 2019.

So I love that story so much.

All hands on deck. We built a shipping system and like a pick and pack in our garage. My mom would be in there, our dad would be in there. We had interns during the summer. I mean, at the end of summer of 2019, we were shipping out like close to like 1,200 packages a day out of our garage. And like, it was just mayhem.

And what, 1,200 a day?

Yeah, in your garage?

Yeah, it was. At that point, it wasn't just our garage, it was our living room, it was our basement, it was our garage, it was our yard. Like, it was, it was a lot. We had someone going back and forth between the post office and our garage just like constantly. Recently. And then we moved out of our parents' garage, uh, like August of 2019. Um, but that being said, like, our family have been so supportive. Like, we could not be where we are today without them. And our sister too, like, she would be there in early trunk shows days. Just like, I was actually reminiscing with my brother because she would be going to trunk shows, and I think there was one where it was like so hot she just like fell asleep from like heat exhaustion, and I don't think she sold a single pair. But you're fired. No, she's like, at the end of the day, she's, she's a second grade teacher and I could not be more proud of her for following her gut and her dream. And I have always said to her, like, use us as a backup, like, go do what you need to do and you can always fall on us. But, you know, I, I could never be a second grade teacher. The amount of patience that she needs and what she goes through day in, day out. I could— I have so much respect for teachers. I could never do it.

Have you heard the quote about like the golden years, like you're actually living in them right now? Or heard versions of that before?

Kind of, yeah.

I'm probably butchering it, but the way you talk about your childhood, it really has that reminiscing feeling. And then the way you talk about like these early trunk shows, but I'm sure at the time you're incredibly stressed. And so walk me through the like early days mindset and where your head was at. Was it fun and exciting? And now you can look back and be like, oh my God, we did everything wrong, but it was so fun. Or at the time, was it incredibly stressful?

I, I both. Like, I think there's— you get— and I— it's funny because with our 10-year anniversary this year, we're doing our 10-year tour of going back to some of our original trunk show partners.

I just got chills.

And because some of our original retailers— like, e-com wasn't what it is by any means now, um, and so the only way to sell product was through trunk shows. So we reached out to every retailer, um, every stand-up paddleboard competition, every sailboat comp— like, we just We just tried to get our name out. And so it's funny because this past weekend we went down to Seaside, Florida. We went to Rothman's in Scarsdale and we went to Nordstrom in New York between Thursday and Sunday. And like that sense of adrenaline when you make a single sale and you have that conversation with a single customer and be able to understand like this customer is spending their hard-earned dollars on your swim trunks and like that feeling and that rush is is awesome, for lack of a better term. Like, it just makes you feel so good inside, like you're impacting someone. Not only, you know, that they're making— you're making their life more comfortable, but you're showing them that, you know, sustainable apparel doesn't need to be uncomfortable, it doesn't need to be unstylish. Like, you can create products that are comfortable and stylish and sustainable. And so, like, all a part of that is like that feeling with every single purchase. And so with going back to these trunk shows I like— it was really cool to kind of get back in that mindset. Long story short, the days of doing trunk shows were exhausting, like not glamorous by any means. We would be standing on a floor, Jake and I, from like 10 AM to 6 PM on like the hardwood floor. And like, if it's the middle of summer, it's dead in there too, like not many interactions sometimes. And so they were definitely grueling days, but they were awesome too. Like they were exciting and they were fun, and we had interns running around and like it was mayhem, but it was fun.

It's, it's about just like remembering like what you had to do to get to where you are. And I think like it's amazing that you're able to like have success, to be able to look back at it and be like, it was worth it, right? Because there's for sure moments where you're like standing on a Florida truck show and you and Jake just spent 8 hours, 10 hours, and you spoke to 2 people and you're like, what the hell are we doing right now? Like, what is going on? But it all matters. It's like you got to start with your first sale somewhere.

Yeah, totally. And like, I think that's something too with starting a company, I think from the outside it can feel so daunting to be like, I gotta get from 0 to 100 in 0.2 seconds. Like that's just not possible. But like we slowly chipped away, like just year after year and summer after summer. Like the products that we have now are so incredibly different from our first run of production. Like our first production of board shorts, like the factory didn't even sew down the Velcro properly. So the Velcro of our board shorts were like slipping out and like falling out all over the place. So it's just like we didn't know what we were doing. And I think being naive actually used— we were able to use that to our advantage. I mentioned earlier, but like, I think you just got to chip away somewhere. And like for trunk shows, that was our way to like start chipping away at sales slowly.

My girlfriend is in fashion as well, and I hear the worst things about the industry of like high fashion labels and the working environments, not overseas, like in New York. And it seems like such a tough industry. And so I'm curious from your lens, Are there any brands or companies or entrepreneurs, either it could be young emerging apparel brands or high fashion brands, do you really look up to? It could be the values, the mission, or the way they treat their people.

Yeah, I, um, so we went through the B Corp certification process a few years ago, and, um, I'm proud to say we are B Corp certified.

Can you explain what that is for people listening?

Yeah, so B Corp is a certain certification that you can get by basically They come in and look at every single part of the production process from the fabrics that you use to the factories that you work with to your culture and your employee handbook to like the amount of water your toilet uses. Like it looks at everything under a microscope that your company makes and uses and stands for. And so for us, I think being a part of that B Corp community and just understanding the level of scrutiny that they apply to every single part of your business, is incredible. So I look up to every brand that is in there because I think there's something that we can learn from every single organization in that community. And it's just, it's really great that a, yeah, like the certification like that exists that holds you to such high level standards. And so that doesn't answer your question because I don't think there's like one specific company. I think yes, like the Everlanes of the world are definitely, you know, stood for transparency and paved the way for that. You know, we did things differently, but still kind of being in that B Corp community is huge. And I think what I learned from the B Corp community and like going through that process is when we first started Fair Harbor, like every decision that we made was through the lens of sustainability, was how can we do things differently? How can we create an apparel brand? Yes, we're— we still make consumer goods, but how can we do things differently? And I think because we didn't have experience in the fashion space, It's not like we were comparing our practices to anything else except for like our own standards that we needed to hold ourselves to.

So I have a question. This might— I don't know, some might think this is a stupid question. How do you turn a water bottle into a pair of shorts?

Well, first of all, nope, there's no stupid questions. I will ask plenty of stupid questions, I'm sure, while we're here. So actually, all polyester is, is plastic. Plastic made from virgin oil, which not a lot of people know. And so our process actually takes recycled plastic bottles. It shreds them and melts them into fibers, and that fibers can then get woven into our yarns. And so we have different proprietary fabrics, and that get woven in with different materials. But it is like a similar process, except we're using post-consumer recycled plastic bottles and not virgin oil in our polyester.

Is that something you knew or just stumbled onto? Just blew my mind.

It's like, just shred them and melt them and put them together, and look at this beautiful pair of shorts.

So it's interesting, like when we first started, no one knew about recycled polyester or these different innovations in these fabrics. And I think over the last decade, and I feel like I'm like aging myself, but over the last decade, like it's become such a bigger part of apparel and the industry, which is something that is awesome. And like, I'm really proud to be a part of, but I remember like when we were first starting out, like no one, and I think we're still getting over that barrier. And I think in different parts of the country too, it's like, different, just people too aren't as aware, um, or as educated. But I think to be a part of this, like, innovation and understanding that, like, we can create fabrics and materials from things that people can't even fathom, like, being a part of that education process is super cool. Um, but I'm sorry, I like totally just blanked on your question.

Oh, in terms of how you actually learned how to do this?

Oh, thank you. Okay, so After Jake graduated from Colgate, he— so Jake also led, and he still does lead all the production. So that's very much under my brother. And so he actually— Pratt University wasn't seeing enough environmental change within the fashion industry from the top down. So they actually started this incubator program. And so Jake joined that, and he learned a lot within different production practices, factory communication, fit sampling, what all that goes into. Creating a single garment, and he learned a lot there. And I was still in college then, so I was overseeing like the brand and the marketing and that sort of, um, world that I still do sit in. And then Jake led product, so he learned a lot within the Pratt Institute. Unfortunately, they closed down the incubator. It was, I think, a lot to fund. But he learned so much, and he's definitely— yeah, I— he's learned a lot.

It's so fascinating to think about like one singular consumer product, and in some cases, like, the level of detail and education and research that needs to go into like You put on like a pair of shorts and like I own a handful of the, the shorts that they make and it's like you put it on and they're comfortable and they look nice and you can like read like, oh, they use recycled plastic and that's great. But it's like, I don't think that many people actually sit there like, okay, how the hell did this even happen? Like, let's reverse engineer this. Like the fact that he's like sitting there studying all of these things just to get to you guys to be able to successfully produce one piece of clothing that turns into like a full business. I, I feel like it's a very underappreciated part of entrepreneurship. Especially in consumer product when you're trying to like invent a new thing. Like some people spend 5 years to be able just to make like a singular product and then figure out how far into the market people even want that thing.

Well, it's kind of like that timeline kind of, kind of checks out with us too because it's like we— it's been 10 years and like we didn't really start to see that hockey stick growth until like, uh, like early 2018, like 2019. So like it was we didn't— like, we chipped at it slowly. And Jake, um, it's funny, when we first started coming up with the concept, we played around with like different ideas for the names and everything with like 3R. And someone we talked to, one of our friends, like, 3R? Like, what, what does 3R mean? Like, that doesn't even sound nice. And we're like, yeah, but it's like inspired by our childhood summers in Fair Harbor. He's like, Fair Harbor? Like, that's— and we were just like, we were just riffing. Um, but we were talking about, we're like, okay, we can make fleeces, we can make denim, we can make swimwear, and Jake and I were talking and we're like, no, we got to focus on like one product category and like perfect that product category. And so it's funny too, because when we did these trunk shows, summer after summer, we would go to the same trunk shows, speak to the same people and say, what do you like about our product? What do you not like about our product? How can we improve? And it was through those customer interactions and focusing on the customer first that people were like, I hate mesh lining. I cut it out of all of my husband, all of my son's suits.

Put me in that category.

The amount of like terrible chafing rash stories, like I've heard it all. I've heard like gruesome details about what happens down there when you have a little salt and sand and everything. Um, this is nasty. But anyways, but we were able to identify a problem and really focus on the solution. And I think these large customers, these large companies, like weren't actually focusing on like how can we improve these products. And because we started out small, we did production run after production run, we were able to actually like focus on the customer and create product that solved a niche in the marketplace. And so that's where we really were able to scale.

I wanna talk about CBG specifically and trunk shows because something that, you run a software company, I run an agency, and when we deal with rejection, it's very different. You're talking to someone on a Zoom and you don't, it's tough sometimes, but you don't take it that personally. You're not like, this is the end of the world. And then all my consumer founder friends, they're in Whole Foods and like no one's sampling their stuff and they come home and they still have optimism. And I'm like, how are you dealing? Like, you're dealing with in-person rejection person after person, not just day after day. Walk me through your learning curve there. Are you just naturally an optimistic person and roll with the punches, or?

That's a, that's a good question. I think like our parents instilled in us too, since like I played sports all growing up and um, played field hockey and lacrosse. And like, I think they were— their perspective was always like, it doesn't work, try again. And like, just keep your head up, push forward. No one else is looking at you when you wake up. So like, it's on you if you want to set your alarm to 6 AM and get to practice early and like get in that extra stretch. Or, you know, it's up to you how hard you want to work because I'm not going to tell you how hard you need to work. You have to do it yourself. And so I think like learning and growing up with parents who instilled that sense of like self-value and like self-determination. Jake and I have like put that into Fair Harbor. And so Jake actually, it's funny, he— one of his first internships was this company called Frava. It's actually not around, but it was a Colgate started company. Um, Alex Porton, who's still a close friend, he started this, and it was a caffeinated fruit juice company. And so Jake was one of the original interns. Um, I think it was like right after his freshman year of college, I want to say. Um, and so it was his job just to take a bunch of this caffeinated fruit juice and walk into delis and bodegas and just try to get product out there. And he reached out to like every bodega, every deli. I think he reached out to like Le Pain quotidien to try to get Prava into it. And the amount of rejection Jake would get was— he's like, all right, you just gotta walk into the next one. And I remember like that, him coming home and telling me that, and, uh, he's like, I've never faced so much rejection in my life. And so I think hearing those stories, him being definitely such a proponent of that, and then also the way that we grew up, it was like, and I still feel this, I was like, if I don't get a response to an email, okay, I'll follow up. But like, who else can I reach out to? Or like, I think there's a level too of just like, you can't, you gotta learn from your mistakes, but ultimately you gotta just keep pushing forward and find a way through.

But I'm curious for both of you, do you think there's a difference between rejection when like you're selling someone else's thing versus your own? Right. So like for Jake, I think the—

oh, is that more what your question was?

Well, oh yeah, how do you deal with it?

No, but I think you brought— you bring up a good point though, where you talk about Jake's experience of getting rejected as an intern for this other company. You know, at the end of the summer he's like, oh well, like, I don't know, maybe the product sucks, or maybe I just like— I'm not good at sales, or I learned this. But I feel like there's a difference between like my sister and I maybe just spent 3, 4 years ideating on this product and I'm getting rejected on like the thing that I put the sweat equity into. So I'm curious if you have like a perspective on what it's like to be rejected on this thing that you would deem to be your baby versus like, you know, going through reps of rejection, other aspects of your life.

Yeah, I appreciate— I think like our product, we can't be everything to everyone. And so I think if we try—

perspective.

Yeah. So like if our product doesn't work for them, okay, like maybe why? Could you give us feedback? But I— you can't— I— we try not to take everything personally.

I think that's— I can learn from that.

Not taking it personally.

Yeah. I'm curious about as you built out the product and continued to scale, what were the distinct phases of the business? I know you mentioned hockey stick growth in 2019 or so. Was there a specific week or month that just kind of compounded on itself? Or did you just keep going heads down, heads down, and then you're like, oh my God, we're growing like crazy?

Yeah, it was definitely like just keeping our heads down. And then this concept of like, say goodbye to mesh lining in the world's most comfortable swimwear, especially through Facebook and Instagram, um, back in 2019. Like, I think we— in 2018, um, we had more of a successful year. We— so we doubled down on inventory, and then 2019 did the same. And then when the pandemic hit, we were really able to kind of lean into that and we started to have that brand equity. We started to kind of have, start to have the internal people in place really help us scale. And then it was 2019 and then into 2020 that we were able to kind of lean in. But it was, we were like 4-person company at that point too. So like, it's not like we had a lot of overhead, a lot of staff. Like it was more just leaning into the single concept on a single platform and then being able to experience that. So it was more just like, just growing, like, steadily growth.

How big is the team now?

Uh, there's 25 of us.

25.

Wow.

Another question I have is just, like, understanding the compounding effect of some of this momentum and traction that you had. I mean, you were Forbes 30 Under 30, you were EY Entrepreneur of the Year. Like, these are things that some people will go a full lifetime, like, oh, I wish I could do that, and never do. I'm curious from your perspective, like, what do you think was the like the moment or the impact that was seen in the business for other people to start to take notice? Like, were there some campaigns you did? Did you have some strategic people that were helping you push press in a unique way? Or do you just think it was like this brand equity that you alluded to that was like compounding and all of a sudden it's like everyone knows what this brand is?

Yeah, I think it was probably like a bunch of different things at the same time. Um, at 20— yeah, 2019, uh Yes, 2019 and 2020, we like started to invest in different type of marketing in 2021 to more like 2020, but it was like airplane banners and billboards and radio and Howard Stern. And there was like, because we were scaling so much, we were able to kind of spend some other funds in different ways. And I think we just started to create that energy around the brand and the product and the excitement. Our PR was working. We were more transparent with some of our revenue numbers, and that always kind of helps. Kind of create some validity to what you're building. And so I think just like all of that coming together with the volume and the product being out in the wild, people loving the product, and that word of mouth. So people, once they love a product, they were talking to their friends, and it just like, it created this life of its own. But I think it's just like, I don't think there was one thing specifically, but it was just like this whole effect coming together. And, um, yeah, so I think that's, uh, it's been fun to watch. For sure.

Tell me more about building a very specific product for a very specific customer and not being, or being unapologetic about it.

Yeah, I think it's not that we, I don't know, it's not that we've been unapologetic about it, but I think that we just knew we needed to be really focused. And with e-com and the way that we scaled, which, you know, it's a little trickier these days with Facebook and Instagram and being able to scale with Meta, 'cause it's a very different world than it was back then. You know, I think we just, we were able to acquire so many customers on a single product. So like now our product is so much more diverse, especially we're going into wholesale. And so we're in like 600 doors across the country, but like, Building wholesale is very different than building e-com from how we scaled. So like we needed a single product, a single category, a single concept, and a, a single marketing channel to get our returns back and then keep investing. And now with wholesale, it's like you need newness, you need an entire lifestyle brand, you need new product, you need like, there's so much more that goes into wholesale. And so it's just, I don't think, like, I don't think we were unapologetic about it, but I think that's like what's wor— what was working and we were able to lean into it. Yeah.

How is your— like, how is a day in the life of Caroline evolved from like the early days of just you and Jake to now being like— like, I actually always joke about this. I like hate C-suite titles until it's like you're actually a business where like it's appropriate. I think there's like a lot of people in the really early days were like, oh, I'm the CEO and the CTO, and it's like you're like 2 people and you have 2 customers. Like, you're just— just build the company and get revenue. But now you're at a point where like it's very appropriate. You guys have a proper C-suite, you have some like really heavy hitters involved in the business. Like What does your day in the life look like today versus what it was in the early days?

I don't think it's honestly changed as much from the early days. Like, I, I'm an— as I mentioned earlier, like, I'm an early morning person, so I get up early. Jake and I are the first two people in the office most days, and like, that's where I get most of my, like, work done. And then the days are mostly like a lot of meetings and bouncing around, or we have shoots or wherever, like The days get busy, so like I love like my morning time. I probably need to create a little bit more time and space for wellness and working out during the weeks. That's definitely something that's, I was even just talking to my coach about it today. Like I'm a work in progress too, especially when it comes to wellness and you know that in the middle of the week. Ben, I know you've created a lot of wellness in your own content, your own day-to-day life. But a lot of work still, like we're still keeping our heads down and pushing forward. There's a lot of wood to chop, still a lot to improve, a lot to grow. And so I, Jake and I, I tend— yeah, we're, we're in the office.

What about from like a responsibility perspective though?

Gotcha. From a responsibility standpoint, we're still growing our team, honestly. Like I'm still involved operationally on a lot day to day. Like our team is— yes, we're 25, but like the creative team is very small. We have some agency partners we work with, but I'm very involved on tactics and the operational side of actually executing the day-to-day. So whether it's bouncing around from product meetings to investment reviews to ad review, there's just, our days are busy. But I don't think that, I think growing our team and making sure the culture and the process and making sure that we're looking forward enough and we have enough time to, we're still working on it. And so I think as we're growing, things just kind of can always improve and always evolve and always iterate. And so it's been awesome to see how our team has evolved too, and like see how we can bring outside perspectives in and outside talent that like personally, like I can't do what like our team can do too in their own respect. So I think it's definitely evolved. But yeah, I'm really proud of our team and it's great culture to work in and I think that's a big part of it.

But I, What is your, what is your philosophy on like culture building and hiring? Like what are the things that are most important to you?

Um, so Jake, I— Jake and I meet every person we hire, and when we go through it, I think that there's the obvious part of skill set and being able to bring a level of experience and skill to the table too. Because I think as Jake and I have scaled, it's like in the beginning we could do everything in the business, and that's just not possible anymore. And I think Being able to take a step back and being able to realize where people can lean in and where they're experts in and being able to help lead strategy but then lead executionally. I think it's been like a really big learning process for me and for the company and just like how we grow the team. But culture and personality and being a good person is like, is bar none. Like if that element of being a really good human isn't a part of the equation, then it's hard to imagine someone at Fair Harbor. And so I think for us, especially with our brand values and who we are and our family being at the core of this company and the team, like it, there's an element of like it needing to feel like a close-knit group of people. And so being a good human is a part of that. Yeah, I guess that's what I'd say.

They do. Like, can you talk a little bit about how like your team will literally go to the beach and like clean up plastic?

It's like that amazing good beach cleanup.

Yeah, so, um, but like frequently, this isn't like a once every 2 years for a PR campaign type vibe. I don't know, that's why I'm curious.

Yeah, so it's— so from sustainability standpoint, I truly believe that, you know, as a brand leading by example from both macro standpoint, so from like our production practices, the fabrics we use, um, to also those micro-level initiatives. And for us, being able to bring our team together, bring our community together through cleanups and showing people how the individual decisions that they make every day have a long-lasting impact. From choosing a plastic fork at the deli to taking a straw with your coffee, like, it can end up in your waterways, and it can end up just by not being disposed of correctly in the places that you love the most. And so that's where we all connect. It's like, how do you get from ultra comfortable sustainable apparel to helping people connect the places that they love? And so beach cleanups, I think, are huge because if you see the trash and everyday things that you use in your life for maybe, what, like 2 to 3 minutes end up washing up on the beaches and impacting the ecosystems and the animals that you love. Like there's something so emotional about that experience that I don't think you get from just like seeing a brand on the computer screen. So I think that those activations, those events, and those community gatherings and those team gatherings are huge for us.

So you've known Ben for a decade?

8 years?

Yeah.

8 years.

Something like that.

I met you an hour ago and my first impression over this hour is that you're incredibly positive. And optimistic. And I know as a founder, I try to be those things sometimes. And it's definitely a skill too that you can cultivate to kind of stay positive. But on the days that are— things are not going well, things are broken. How do you ensure, especially with a team now and a bigger team, how do you ensure that you're still trying to exude that optimism and that positivity?

Yeah, it's, it's interesting because I think Jake and I, since we started, like we can just, we know what Fair Harbor can become and like we see the brand clearly. And I think just having such a clear vision for where we want to go, like the steps can change with how we're gonna get there. Like I always, I see that like Instagram meme or whatever of like the jumping and then you like fall off and then you get back and then you like get a little higher and then you fall off, then you get a little higher. Like it's not a linear path by any means. Like, I'd be lying to you guys if it's like, oh, everything's been perfect and it's been a hockey stick curve since day one. Like, that's not it. But I think it's how you react, how you learn from lessons and how you move on and push forward because like you're going to have shitty days. Like, it's, it's okay. Like, you're going to have great days. Savor those great days. And I think like I'm still— I have a lot to learn. I have a lot to grow as a person. But like trying to be optimistic and like know where you're going and figure out how you're going to get there might evolve and might change. But like trying to be okay with that and like realize what you have control over and what you don't, I think is like a part of the process that like I've tried to—

and for what it's worth, she's been the same since I've known her. Like always a smile on her face, doesn't matter any circumstance. So that hasn't wavered at all. What is the vision for Fair Harbor? Like, let's fast forward 10 years, 20 years. Like in your mind, when you could call me and be like, we did exactly what I said to you a decade ago, like, what is that?

I think, you know, since we started, like, Fair Harbor is truly a lifestyle. It's an experience. And that's when I explain, like, when we started, like, I can close my eyes and, like, feel exactly what Fair Harbor feeling of the whitewashed wood and, like, biting into a hamburger. And now, like, not maybe not when I was little, but, like, having, like, 5 PM glass of, like, ice cold rosé sitting, like, on your parents' dock or, like, parents' porch and, like, going down to the dock barefoot. Like, there's so many experiences that can be harnessed and so many different ways. And I think for now, like, to call a spade a spade, like, we've been a men's brand up until now. And like, that building the brand of Fair Harbor that everyone can connect to is something that has been so personal to me, and I know for Jake too. But now with women's and with kids and creating a line that like the whole family can enjoy and love, and like eventually potentially homeware— like, there's so many different places that we can take the brand. But for right now, we're focusing on creating a 365-day brand. So a brand that can live all year long, because right now we've been mostly Q2 seasonally relevant product, um, focusing on building women's and really kind of having that full lifestyle family moment that everyone can be a part of. But then as we look further, like, hopefully there is a world where we create the world of Fair Harbor. And like, this might— like, looking at someone who's done it incredible, like Ralph Lauren and creating the world of Ralph is like he's created every single touchpoint, every single experience, every sense. And like, you know what that world of Ralph Lauren is. And so I think for Jake and I, like, we see so many different elements of Fair Harbor being able to be brought to life in the future that I'm excited about.

I just finished reading the J.Crew book.

Oh yeah.

Early. I think it was Emily Sinander, Senator, who just meticulously built the taste and the vibe when she kind of inherited the company from her dad. And it's funny because we've had so many consumer founders on this podcast because we both— I come from e-com and he's in e-com right now. And so many of those founders and friends that we talk to, it's about— it's not about a quick exit, but it's always, okay, when is the acquisition? When is some liquidity event? And I think you're the first person that we've talked to, which is about not the broader vision, but like, this is a lifestyle brand that is going to be around for the next 50, 100 years, or at least that's the hope, I'm guessing. Versus different direction. Am I getting that wrong?

No, I think you're right. But I think a huge part of that is because if you think about the other brand founders we've talked to, like, I think some of them embody their product in terms of like their daily habits. But like Fair Harbor is like their upbringing. Like it wasn't like a habit. It was— she said it's a lifestyle. Like you think of some other brands that are like very meticulous of like a product, but for them it's a lifestyle. And I don't think every CPG product can actually be positioned as a lifestyle. Like I don't think it fits in a lot of categories. But the way that I think about is like, if I told you and Jake tomorrow, like, you know, what's your number? Here's your number. Now you can't work on the business anymore. Like, I can't imagine. I think there would be a lot of sadness involved in that because it's, of course, like money is a byproduct of like building and passion. And I think the dream is to work on something you love and make money doing it. But I do really believe at my core of all the founders that I've met that you truly embody your business as a lifestyle way beyond the business piece that like yeah, the money part will be awesome if and when there's like this amazing thing. But I do believe that you live with so much purpose with what you're doing, and that it— from our perspective or mine, it seems like a purpose that you want to pursue for like a long time.

I appreciate that. Yeah, it's, it's been such a fulfilling experience. And I think like having something like so tied to yourself, like I— like our child, like it's, it's something like it's hard to explain too, but I think that I feel really fortunate to be able to have it all tied together. And like, it's hard too because it's all tied together, right? It's like a double-edged sword because like our brand is such a core part of our identity. Um, but it's— yeah, it's definitely been a special experience.

I have a random question. Uh, the town of— I guess, is Fair Harbor a town like off of Fire Island? Do you— is it like— I don't— what's the— is there a governor? Is there like— like, what is that? I'm assuming you guys have spoken with like the people in charge of this place.

Yeah, we definitely, from a legal standpoint, we're all checked out there.

No, not even— I wasn't even thinking of it from a legal perspective, like trademarking, more from like, I'm sure they're grateful for what you guys have done from like bringing their town to the forefront of like culture.

It's fine.

You guys have a relationship with like whoever's in charge of that place?

Yeah, I mean, like we go back, like we still go back, and like it's— the community is like super supportive too of us, and like it's really fun.

They're probably celebrities there.

Oh, I'm sure it's fun. We actually, we, um, We're ending our 10-year tour in Fair Harbor and Ocean Beach. So like, as you should, Fire Island, there's like so many different towns like along. So like each of the towns have different personalities too, which is really fun. Um, and so yeah, it's just like, I don't know, it's, it's definitely a blast to be able to go back and see Fair Harbor in the wild there, but then also like talk to people and hear people's own experiences with the brand. And it's funny, actually, um, one of our first summers starting, Jake and I wanted to go like make a video out there to like have a brand video and have a brand spot. But I don't even know like how this happened. I don't— we had a videographer, we didn't have a model. Like, I don't know what we were truly— what we were planning on doing. But we were at dinner one night and there's like one dinner and like one of— one restaurant in the town. We were talking to our waiter, this guy John Stein, and he had this like bleach blonde hair. He was like a surfer. He had like these glasses. And we're like, what are you doing tomorrow?

No way.

And, uh, he's like, I don't know. He's like He's trying to become like an actor and like a film student. We're like, you want to be like the, like the main guy in our film and our video? And we just like followed him along and he was talking about like that Fair Harbor essence. I'll send it to you guys afterwards.

That's cool.

But it was just like, it was hilarious because we're like, you want to come? He's like, yeah, I got nothing going on tomorrow. Sure, let's do it. And so we just like, we followed him around and captured like a day in the life of Fair Harbor and it was awesome.

Is it on the site or is it on YouTube?

It's on YouTube.

Yeah, we got it. We'll roll it after this.

Okay, we can put a link to it in the description.

That's so good.

Good.

Caroline, this has been amazing. I really appreciate you coming on.

Of course.

Thanks for sharing your story with us. Do you want to look at the camera on the left and let everyone know where they can find you and what you're working on?

You can find us at fairharborclothing.com. And, uh, yeah, stay tuned for some more exciting things on the horizon.

Hell yeah. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you guys so much. This is fun.