#057: How a DM Sparked the Launch of Keychain: Startup Tips from Founder Jordan Weitz

because this is kind of my first rodeo in doing all these things, I think, you know, I'm super excited and I kind of put 150% effort into everything that I do. And the level and seniority of people looking for things like, literally verbatim, ice cream cake manufacturer on Google. Someone at a top 3 or 4 retailer was searching for that, which you'd believe like these guys have all the resources in the world. They should have access to everything possible and XYZ huge retailer should know who to go to for an ice cream cake. I don't want to be like the tech founder with like, this is how we do this and these are 6 ways for you to improve your business type of thing. I really want it to be like, oh shit, like someone shared my post because it was informative and they want to share it with their team.

Jordan Weitz, co-founder of Keychain, turned his deep-rooted passion for consumer products into an innovative platform that streamlines the connection between brands and manufacturers. Fueled by his own experience with celiac disease, Jordan became obsessed with the consumer product space, eventually identifying a major gap in how brands find manufacturing partners. This insight led to the creation of Keychain, a marketplace designed to revolutionize the CPG industry. In this episode, Jordan discusses how he leveraged his unique expertise to build confidence and drive the company forward. He also delves into the personal adjustments he made to maintain balance, including the critical role of fitness and the struggle to improve his sleep habits amidst the pressure of startup life. Welcome back to Season 2, Episode 20 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have Jordan Weitz, who's the co-founder of Keychain. Thanks for joining us today, Jordan.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Let's jump right into it. You want to give us a little bit of background on what you're working on?

Yeah, totally. I can give some quick background on kind of how I got here and then kind of what we're up to. So I have always been obsessed with the consumer products world. I was actually diagnosed with celiac disease when I was a— right before my freshman year of college, which has kind of fueled my health and wellness type journey. Um, I was that kid going through a grocery store, putting on my headphones, turning over ingredient labels to see what was gluten-free and what was not gluten-free. Um, and just became obsessed with it. Um, so I have always known that I wanted to do something in consumer products. Um, throughout college, I was always networking with folks like Adrian at the time, um, who I definitely view as one of my mentors. Um, and just getting to better understand what consumer products were, how things were marketed, what appealed to different types of consumers, all that good stuff. And, you know, through that experience, I just became obsessed with the category and industry. I worked with a close friend named Kiva Dickinson doing some like intern work. Again, kind of going through the full background here, but I think kind of paints the picture. Doing some intern work around consumer investing and specifically like very early stage CPG investing. And again, common theme of just becoming even more obsessed with consumer products and not only as a consumer, but as a real passion and hobby. So I then worked at a private equity fund that invested in a bunch of consumer products and interestingly, contract manufacturers, which is really where the idea of Keychain was birthed out of sitting on both sides of the brand and manufacturing ecosystem. It was just really interesting. I think like most growth equity investors, and you look at the company that I was at called Monogram, you would think that we were exclusively a brand investor doing kind of like Series A, Series B type checks. Um, when I left, we were almost exclusively doing real like hard assets and looking at businesses that had manufacturing capabilities. So, um, I definitely came in excited by the kind of like growthy opportunities of VC and stuff like that, and then kind of left being even more enamored with the manufacturing facilities that were actually making the Kool-Aid, as one will say. So through that experience of being on both sides, quickly uncovered, you know, the problem set that brands have when looking for a new manufacturer. And when you would ask everyone in the industry how they would go about finding that manufacturer, it was always some combination of, well, you go to Google, you go to trade shows, you go to brokers, you go to industry consultants and experts. And there was no real good way to figure out who can make the product you were looking for. So I started to think about this idea. It was one of those classic couldn't sleep at night. Ended up reaching out to one of my co-founders actually on Twitter, cold DM, which was a crazy story. Yeah, he— I mean, it was a super baity message and he bit, which is awesome. Joke's on you. Joke's on you. Exactly. And, you know, we just started meeting up and meeting up about this idea.

What prompted you to cold DM him?

Yeah, so he, he ran a business called Angie's List. Angie's List, for those who don't know, one of the world's largest home services marketplaces that I felt was solving a very similar need to kind of what I was thinking about, that, you know, where the issue lied in the consumer products world. Obviously, if you, you know, it's hard to really compare someone looking for an electrician or a plumber to someone looking for a new manufacturer, for example. But if you distill it on the problem set, it was eerily similar in terms of marketplace building, archaic industry, um, kind of listing services type, type aspects. So, um, honestly just thought he would be a great person to tell me my idea was dumb and we— I should never think about it again, just because it was like actually bothering me, um, which is probably a good thing at that point. I mean, I was interested and passionate, or passionate about it. So, um, we started meeting up and meeting up about this idea of, okay, well What if we could build the Angie's List but for the CPG manufacturing world and build a marketplace kind of connecting brands, retailers, food service operators with the right supply chain partners in kind of a matter of minutes rather than doing it across 6 to 12 months of a really thoughtful, not thoughtful, but like very long search process to figure out who could make your product for you.

Can you walk us through idea to incorporation? How long was that? How long did that take? Because I know during that time we were texting each other and I think you very quickly built conviction around it and also surrounded yourself by the right people as well as investors. So what was that timeline? And then how quickly did it move?

It was like really quick. I, you know, I, through the, like the process that I was experiencing at Monogram, which I love those guys, they're amazing investors and like I was the one creating the initial list of the pasta sauce facilities that we were going to go try to buy. So I've been thinking about it like for a very long time and honestly had conviction. And I was more so trying to convince Oisin and Ummang, my two co-founders, that, you know, this was hopefully going to be huge. The market was massive. You could basically run the exact same playbook, obviously with a bunch of different tweaks to what they've done for the past kind of 12 years or so running their old businesses. And I would say from like idea to at least me, the fundraise would probably like a few months, frankly. I mean, it was pretty insane just how quickly they were excited to move and investors were excited to move as well. So, but yeah, it was really like last summer when really things kicked off and we closed our round. In, I think it was officially August, and then announced it in November.

I want to talk about, uh, something that I think you did that is very unique that I don't know a lot of other founders similar in age to us have done. But you are building a business with two co-founders who, like, I don't know how to say this in the most respectful way, but are like more successful than you as entrepreneurs, like, in their previous life.

Yeah.

Like, what was that process of basically selling the dream to them where they actually believed in you to be like one of their partners in the business? Because I think you know, the easy answer is like, oh, I had the idea, but like, ideas are cheap. Like, the execution is what really matters. So I, I've actually been fascinated by the fact that you've been able to, to bring on or partner with co-founders who, when you look at it from like a resume perspective, have built things way bigger, and now you're partnered with them.

Yeah, and definitely in terms of like the idea, it was very collaborative. I think what Keychain is today is a hell of a lot different than what my initial like I mean, you guys, I mean, it was shocking. Like I was thinking when I first came with this idea of like I was thinking I would make a website and charge people like $20 to get access to like Jordan's list instead of Angie's List. Yeah. And like what Keychain now has become from the level of granularity, the detail, how we're doing matchmaking, how the database is continuing to evolve every single day. I mean, credit to them. I mean, we've introduced new ideas that I don't think I could have ever even imagined would happen. So You know, that process of collaborating and building conviction in the idea. I mean, we really did it hand in hand. I think like I was never going to leave my awesome job for like Jordan's List or whatever it was going to be. Right. And, you know, the process of working together to figure out what this could be was, was important. I mean, yeah, they're fucking successful as can be. I mean, they ran a business called Handy before selling that business to Angie's List, which was a kind of Uber for handymen and cleaners, kind of in that rah-rah Uber time, um, and grew that business for about 6 years, um, and then ended up selling that to Angie's List before running Angie's List. So I think it honestly helped my conviction that they were also convinced. Like, um, you know, I don't know, I come from the consumer products world. If I was going to go launch my own better-for-you cookie brand, I could probably build a pretty sweet model that showed gross margins in a way that could I could potentially make money in 4 years if I had the capital to do it. Did not know jack shit about marketplaces or technology building or anything like that. So having them to kind of lean on to build a lot of the initial processes around, okay, how are we going to execute on this? How are we going to hire the right team to put this in place? Engineers, data, all that type of stuff. It is kind of an interesting spot because from the early days, I mean, they don't have any consumer products background. Obviously they're consumers and they like going to grocery stores and they both have young children. Nutrition and wellness is top of mind for them. But I've kind of always been this resident expert in the CPG world, which is, I think, really important to me as kind of this, you know, third leg of the stool, if you may say, just because I mean, look, they're 40 years old and I'm 26, right? So, you know, always being that resident expert of like, hey, Jordan, like, what do you think about this? Or, hey, how do we think about building out the low acid aseptic processing space in the beverage category? Like, how should we be thinking about it? It's just kind of helped me, um, not flex my muscles, but like be in the, the middle of kind of everything going on just because I am the resident.

Were there any limiting beliefs in that process in your own mind where you're like, I don't— I can't believe that these guys are like sitting at a table with me? Or was it just straight conviction the whole time that you knew you were the best at this one part of the, the puzzle, that there was never a second of doubt?

There really wasn't a second of doubt. I mean, Oisin and Umar are awesome guys, like just people you would want to sit down with, have a beer with, get coffee with, kind of hang out with. It was, it was never always just business, which I think is important, especially just given the age gap. Like my lifestyle right now is very different than theirs is. I'm not married. I don't have kids. I still live with some of my best friends from college. Right. So, you know, what I go home to versus what they go home to is, is very different. And Yeah, I think it's important just having the relationship I have with them and all of us always being in it together is really important.

What have you learned about hanging out with people and spending time with people or building companies with people that help you increase the velocity or the ambition of your vision, your speed, and your hiring ability? Like we had Aaron on right before this from Hushblankets and he's building a lot of new things now. And even just talking to someone like that, immediately I'm like, I'm not moving fast enough. I'm not being ruthless enough in hiring. My vision can get a whole lot bigger and this is how I can help other people's kind of dreams fit in that vision. And just simple conversations like that for an hour can completely change your own trajectory. I can't imagine like building a company with two incredibly successful co-founders where it's not just an hour, we're with them all day, every day on Slack, on text. How has that changed your own ability to execute, your own vision, your own speed?

Yeah, I mean, it's— it has completely changed. I think one of the most impressive things is how much firepower these guys still have. I mean, look, they dropped out of business school, started a business, raised a bunch of venture money, sold it to a publicly traded company, ran the publicly traded company as a CEO, and is now back. Like, what are you guys doing, right? It's like, to some extent, it's like insane. But— and I think it just kind of bleeds what— how much passion and excitement they have to kind of build again and Because this is kind of my first rodeo in doing all these things, I think I'm super excited and I kind of put 150% effort into everything that I do. And I've just been impressed with how they do the exact same, which I was kind of going into this expecting that this is their second rodeo. Like I said, things would kind of be on the backseat a little bit out of the gates just because they knew how to build it. Not to say that not that hustle, but as a second-time founder with success, with success. They have a family. They made money on the last exit, right? So, um, you know, it's been fueling to that every single morning when we have a catch-up or every single evening when we're talking at 10:30 about strategy going forward. I mean, the passion is there and has totally fueled the way I think about things on a day-to-day basis and the team, frankly. I think I'm again younger than most people at our company, which is kind of a a, like, a weird and hilarious but also amazing dynamic too that kind of balances out their experience. And then also kind of my firepower. This is my first go around.

So one of the things we talked about when we were hanging out a couple of months ago, something at your office was that you kind of go back to a different scenario, right? You're going back to— at the end of the workday, you're going back to hang out with your college buddies. You all live together and I know you have a girlfriend.

Yep.

And where'd you go to undergrad?

I went to Yale. Yeah, I graduated 2020.

Very smart guy. And so we were having that conversation and then something I've thought a lot about recently is that whenever I'm like stressed or anxious in the business, a lot of the time it's not work-related at all. It's because like everything around my work is not in lockstep. Like I'm not working out, I'm not eating healthy, I'm traveling more than I should. I'm on the road. I don't have control over the other things. And you could give me the same amount of like quote unquote stressful day of like, I got to work 12 hours today. But if everything else, if I'm like eating healthy and sleeping, relationships are good, I can handle that. I'm like pretty jolly and like happy-go-lucky during the day. At the same time, if I'm running around and traveling, I'm not eating well, that same day is brutal.

Yeah.

And so I'm curious for you, I'm sure working with like very successful co-founders or also just people more advanced in their career, they've probably figured that out and they have some of that routine and habits, maybe a bit more discipline than you. How have you thought through, like, are there any changes you've had to make that, like, okay, maybe I can't go out for drinks with my buddies, or maybe I really should, you know, sub that out with going to work out and making time for myself? How have you kind of grown up outside of work as well?

Yeah, I think honestly working out has been the number one most important thing. My girlfriend, she was in her entire family, which is insane. Her dad and her two older sisters and her did an Ironman. about, I think, 2 years ago.

What?

No shit.

It was insane.

I've never heard that in my life.

I mean, like, her dad is like, what, 55? Maybe almost 60 at this point. Like, he did a fucking Ironman. I mean, it was nuts. Um, the reason I bring it up is because she was training for that about, you know, 2 years ago, I would say. Um, which is, you know, I guess not when Keychain started, but let's just call it like a year and a half ago or so when we started talking about these things. It was kind of the prime time for what— when they were training for that. That event, which we should talk about that. It's like nuts. Like it was, it was actually in Switzerland. They did it in Thun. So I went skydiving for the first time, which was fucking cool. And I'll bridge this to what we're talking about. But, you know, going— because when you're training for an Ironman, I mean, it's like 150-mile bike ride or whatever it is, 26-mile run, and then a 2.5-mile swim. So in order to get those distances in before the workday or even after the workday, I was kind of on Carolyn's schedule, like I was just getting into the gym when, you know, at 7 a.m. instead of at— so at Monogram, I was working Pacific time hours from the East Coast, which was insane. So I got into this habit of like waking up late and then going to the gym at 10:30 and then getting into the office at noon, which was a luxury, I would say. But I think kind of kicked me out of this habit of going to bed early, caring about myself, waking up, going to the gym, all that good stuff. So I've really, really, really tried to make sure that's a priority. I do find myself still spiraling back to this stage of, you know, not going to the gym and then just kind of just focusing on work. Like, my to-do list is never ending. And I think every single time I check my phone, like, I'm already stressed that I'm not going to, like, look at my phone for this hour. Right. And like what's going to be next. And that's kind of been the biggest change is learning how to prioritize the to-do list of things that, one, are for other people so it doesn't block them, but two, also for elevating myself personally. Going to the gym, like if I go into the office after going to the gym in the morning, I feel a million times better. I still need to figure out how to sleep better at night, which I know both of you are big on. I've always had—

we can nerd out on sleep all you want.

I mean, I mean, I I mean, ever since I started Keychain, and it's probably just because I'm— I mean, look, it's a startup. I'm stressed about like the day-to-day shit that I need to do by tomorrow and the next day. But it's also like the existential of like I'm responsible for people's lives and like we're building this, this idea, which again, I every day I have more conviction on. But look, it's early, right? So I think going to the gym has been helpful, eating clean. Diet and doing a, you know, quasi diet has been great. I'm gluten-free, so I've always been interested in food and beverage more broadly. But I would say like working out has been the biggest change from a lifestyle perspective.

Are you lifting? Are you running? Are you playing sports?

Yeah, I wish I was playing sports. I miss that. I actually used to do a kickball league, which was a lot of fun.

That's epic.

I know. It's a— it was, it was fun. It was only like 4 games, but it was, I mean, it was so much fun. Um, I've been lifting, um, and then just trying to eat more, which has been again, very new for me. Um, but yeah, let's talk about sleep. Yeah, let's do it.

Aaron's the sleep guy.

I know. I wish I, maybe I should get a hot blanket right there.

Um, I mean, what, what's wrong with your sleep right now?

I just like wake up in the middle of the night. All the time. I'd pull out my phone, write down an idea, and then— I mean, it's, it's like very classic, obviously, but I just don't understand why I can't turn off going to bed. I mean, granted, like, my best idea, like, when I look at my phone the next morning, it happens to be some of our, like—

What time do you go to sleep usually?

Usually like 1. I mean, the biggest issue that I have right now is, like, we are hiring pretty rapidly, and a lot of folks in the sales organization, which I've been helping to kind of lead the charge on and, and train people up and help them understand our processes, which means that I am back to back from about 9:30 in the morning all the way till usually probably 6:30 or 7 at night, just given time zones, which means I can't actually start doing anything until what I get home at 8 and then I cook dinner.

God, you would have benefited so much from listening to this conversation with Aaron.

I'm going to send you the podcast link to this.

Yeah, for sure.

So the first thing—

I mean, it's like you guys—

so the first thing he'll tell you is that you don't need to be in that many calls. You can rationalize it with yourself and why you need to be in these calls. Yeah, but I mean, there's levels to it. But the thing that he was saying that he got— he was like, he was the first person to get through to me about it, which was like, look at your calendar. How many of these calls aren't making you money? Get those calls off your calendar, especially as like a co-founder of a big business. I think there's a, there's a fine line between calls that are mission critical and also convincing yourself that you're being really productive and doing a lot of things because you're talking to a lot of people and you're on a lot of calls.

Yep.

Right? Like, I don't think it matters what business you're in. I don't think there's a reason that you need to be on calls from 9 o'clock to 6:30 at night straight through. I think it's more about prioritization. The same way you talk about prioritizing your to-do list, there's probably a world where you can be prioritizing how you're actually spending your time. Because I'd imagine there's a couple sales calls or whatever they are sprinkled into that calendar that are actually way less of a priority than some of the things on that to-do list. But there's this element of like, but I told this other person, or I'm letting this other person down. So I think it's like being rigorous around your own priorities, but I think bleeding into the sleep thing— so you say you go to bed on average at 1 o'clock. What would you say is the average delta between, like, give or take 30 minutes? Like, do you go to bed sometimes at 12:30, sometimes at 1:30? Like, how often is it actually around 1 AM?

It's like pretty much consistent, rarely at 1 AM.

And then what time are you usually waking up?

Set my alarm for 7 typically.

And then what are you doing between like 11 and 1?

It's a great question.

I mean, it's just a blur.

No, I'm going— I'm not just asking these to be a dickhead. Like, I'm saying this because I've spent a lot of time, yeah, on the topic of sleep for myself. Like, it's something I obsess over, especially as a Division I athlete in my past life. So I'm like, I'm getting there, but I want to have a better understanding.

Yeah, I mean, it's largely responding to emails and Slack and prepping for tomorrow's sales calls. Um, so that's kind of the big thing. I think my biggest issue with just like prioritization and scheduling and, and probably like derivative of my sleep problems is, um, like throughout my entire life and career, I've like— the conversations that I have that I choose to not reschedule or cancel on have always been those opportunities that have made— that have turned into something for me. Every single one that was like one-off that you would never expect something to come of it was always like 3 months or 4 months or 6 months later. It was like, holy shit, thank God I did that.

But had you— isn't there a world that you could have had that call 2 weeks later?

For sure, 100%, right?

Because it's to this idea that there'll always be more calls, your to-do list will always be growing. Yeah, you probably could have pushed a call one week. Yeah, uh, and still had that. But I think, okay, so you're, you're doing emails and Slacks and messaging between 11, 11, and then what, you're, you're closing your computer like 12:45, brushing your teeth, going to bed.

Pretty much. Yeah.

What about in the mornings? So like you wake up, what is— how do you like start your day?

Yeah, I wake up, brush my teeth, get my meal preps that I've cooked on Sunday ready to go, and then I walk out the door and go to the gym. Typically that like morning routine-ish. I'm pretty like— I like to lull in bed, as my grandma used to say, like prop up my pillow, sit on my phone for a little bit, just like putter around.

Exactly.

Well, like between, between when you wake up and I'm assuming after the gym, you like shower and go to the office.

Yes, correct. Exactly. I'll get to the gym at like 8 typically. Yeah, I would say. And then like one of my co-founders is in India every once in a while. So like we typically start earlier when he's over there. But I would say generally I'm getting into the office around 8:45, 9.

And are you like during this time from when you wake up and go to the gym, are you like looking at emails and Slack and kind of responding randomly?

I mean, I, The amount of emails I fire off in the gym is like, all right, so your sleep issue, it's actually not that complicated.

Yeah.

Um, and I would say try to do this. It starts at the beginning of your day, right? So like something that I used to do is like I'd wake up, I'd go to the gym, I'd shower, I'd have 5 minutes between when I showered and my first call or my first whatever, and you just jump into your day and your brain is like everywhere.

Yeah, right.

The same. And then, and then the whole day I feel anxious, I'm on edge. I was never actually able to like settle in, ease into my day. The same thing holds true at the end of your day, right? So like you need to ease into the process of like going to sleep and actually calming your mind and settling down. So the last thing you're doing before going to bed is like looking at emails on your phone, scrolling. Your brain is never actually like relaxing and turning off. So you're waking up in the middle of the night because you're still like going, going, going.

Yep.

So you need to have some guardrails for yourself. It could be 20 minutes. It sounds crazy, I don't care how busy you are, it doesn't matter what you're building. Everyone has 20 minutes that they could take to not dedicate to— that email can wait till tomorrow morning. And if it couldn't wait till tomorrow morning, then you probably suck at your job and you're way too inefficient that you still had an email at 12:45 at night that had to be responded to.

Yep.

If you take 20 minutes of your night, call it from 12:30 or 12:40 to 1 AM, and you don't like just bombard your brain with notifications, I know it sounds crazy when you— like, people are like, oh, you should wear blue light glasses, you should put your phone down before you go to bed. It's not bullshit. Yeah, there's levels to it. But like, if the last thing you're doing before you go to sleep is just like firing up your brain, and now all of a sudden you have more ideas going, your brain never actually calms down and lets you get into this meditative state to like really relax and go to sleep. So you're waking up 2 hours later with like this unresolved thought, like, oh my God, I need to respond to this, I need to write this down. You're never actually setting guardrails for yourself in your brain to like calm down, right? So the first piece of it is strictly just habits and environment. So like by having guardrails at the beginning of your day, at the end of your day, to like give you Jordan time where it's like, I understand you have something that needs to happen, but you're not going to be able to just bombard me at 12 o'clock at night. Like, fuck off, I'll get to this tomorrow. That's step one. The second piece of it is understanding like the environment in which you sleep in. So like now we're getting like a little bit nerdy, but it's much better to sleep in cold a cold room.

Yeah.

So I don't know if you like what your temperature is.

Yeah. Okay.

So that's, it's like, it's good to sleep in a cold room.

Probably me and Carolyn's number one fight is that like, same.

Don't ever, don't ever give up on that one.

I like have, I have, I want to like try to figure out if there's other ways that I can make myself cooler. I mean, I like, I know Eight Sleep is like the two sides.

Dude, I mean, did you hear Aaron's story?

No.

There, when, oh, you missed his turning promo.

Was this at the end?

Uh, dude, that's the whole, that's the whole crux of everything. I'll give you guys the quick 2 seconds. There was a moment in time, I think 6 years ago now, where him and his co-founder were contemplating shutting down their business and going back to like Revitacize. And his co-founder had like a software company at the time because their business was seasonal. It's like, this is just like a— it's not a great business to be in when it's like this and then like this. And so they were trying to figure out, is there a world we can make it not seasonal? So at the time they had 2,000 customers. They cold called every single one. They had 500 conversations and like, what do you think on the product? What can we do better, etc.? And then they looked at all the 1-star reviews of all their competitors. The number 1 thing that everyone said was like, we love your product, but we put it away in the summer because it's way too hot. And all the, the bad reviews on the other products, like, I sweat at night. So they made like cooling sheets.

Got it.

So they basically made a product to keep you cool so you could use it in the summer also. That was like the light bulb moment. And that's when their business like went like this.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I'm like thinking about buying new sheets right now.

Yeah. I mean, you should, you should try the Hush.

There's way too many options out there.

I like was searching and I was like, this is, I, I literally just want something like that is cool and like not too soft and comfortable. Yeah, I just, I like spent probably an hour. This goes back to what I do from fucking 9 to 11.

Yeah, yeah, well, Hush is probably a fair place to start. So anyways, it's, it's temperature, so like air conditioning plus the sheets or whatever. Uh, the second piece of it is also like light. Yeah, so like having a very, very dark room is very important, whether you wear like an eye mask or if you have like truly blinds that actually block it all out. I also noticed when I started thinking about this, I have like my computer charger and I have like a watch thing and there's like little lights that are— that shit matters. Yeah, right. So it's like you think about the light, you think about the, um, the temperature. The other thing, I don't know if you've tried any supplements, but taking— okay, so that's like— I actually have one that someone just sent me. I haven't tried it. I'm gonna try it tonight for the first time. It's called Sleep Rhythm.

Cool.

Uh, taking magnesium, magnesium, L-theanine, uh, I don't know what else is in this one. I would 100% recommend, uh, No Days Wasted also has a Sleep Assist product that I take pretty frequently. I would 100% test some of these sleep products. I was never like a melatonin guy, but taking like a magnesium product—

yeah, an hour, it always made me groggy.

I never, never was melatonin person, but if you take like a magnesium product like an hour before you go to bed, yeah, uh, I think you'll actually find impact on that. So all this to say, I would love for you to try this for one week and then come back to me and tell me how it goes. Of like, for sure, give yourself time before you go to bed to just like chill. Yeah. Read a book, don't stare at blue light for the 30 minutes. If you're gonna be on your phone, put on blue light glasses, like try to mitigate it to some degree. But if you're on your phone, it shouldn't be like scrolling social media or like responding to a bunch of shit, 'cause you're just like, it's an inbox, it's a hallway of notifications, and that's actually what gets your brain turning. So it's like, if you just don't do that for 30 minutes, like figure out a way to keep your room cool and dark, take some sort of magnesium, whatever it is, Um, and then the other thing I would recommend is I have an app for setting my alarm where if I want to wake up at 6:30, let's say, it actually takes a 30-minute window and the alarm will go off in the moment where in your lightest sleep, uh, so it doesn't disrupt your REM, which makes it harder to wake up in the morning. That I think has impacts on just how you feel in the morning, like less groggy. But I would say like there's a lot other— there's a lot more things you can like talk about. Like sleep is a topic you can go on and on about, and I'm not like a sleep expert by any means, but I would say at like a surface level If you try to change those things and you don't see even like a marginal incremental benefit, I'd be surprised.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's super fair. One thing I wanted to touch on was this idea of like scheduling sales calls out a little bit. Like, what's a fair time to like schedule a call out for? Like, I feel like it's kind of a like dickish move to say like, hey, like, thanks so much. Like, we're super excited to chat. How's week after Labor Day. Like, that's probably a little bit— yeah, right?

No, it's a really— it's a really interesting question.

You guys think is like— I don't know, like, if I was on the other side and I was excited about something, I would feel like either this person's super busy and maybe there's a way to frame it that's just like, hey, like, I really appreciate whatever, I'm super excited, now it's not a great— whatever it is. But I don't know, I feel like 2 weeks is kind of my number, but I would love to push things out.

I think I'll have a different answer than he has because he's a solo founder.

Yeah.

Uh, what else in your business are you responsible for besides selling?

I mean, I'm kind of all over the place just because I would say like the core, like how me, Yoshin, and Umang split things up, I would say. And again, like everyone's involved in everything at this point. Like, I think we need to do actually a way better job of like segmenting off responsibility. So you can actually like focus a little bit more. But Umang typically is doing a lot of the operational stuff. Oisin was the chief product officer at Angie, so he's the product guy. And then I've been kind of leading the effort on, you know, helping our sales guys get up to speed and kind of doing things, all things revenue.

So the thing I'll tell you, because I had a mentor of mine, the founder of And1, who's now an investor, not in my company, just like an investor in general, I was talking to you about this. And you actually just alluded to it, which basically means that you directionally know what needs to happen, you just haven't done it. And he said this to me and it resonated so much. The only way that your business is going to get to the next level as co-founders, if you actually divide your clear lanes of responsibility.

Yeah.

So I come from a BD sales background, love selling, have a lot of fun with it. I have two co-founders. One of my co-founders comes from a sales background as well. I have a lot of other responsibilities in the business that I'm better suited to be doing. Than that, despite the fact that I love doing it. Say about 4 to 5 months ago, I fully dedicated all the selling to him. So all he does all day is just sell, nothing else. That's it. Yeah, because I agree with you that you shouldn't be pushing sales calls out 4 weeks. But I think the problem is that you're trying to do other people's jobs as well and you guys are crossing lines. You need to stay in your lane because if you, if you guys decided you're the best founder in the business to be responsible for the sales function, you should be doing quite literally nothing else other than focusing on revenue. And I know it sounds crazy, but there's an element of like delegation and letting go and trusting the other people in your business to do the other things. The first couple times that I had like deals, I'm like, I know I can close this deal, and I had to give it to him. I was like, fuck, this sucks because I love this so much. The only times that I will jump on a sales call now is if the introduction comes to me directly from like a founder or an investor or someone where I have a really good relationship with them, where it's almost disrespectful if I delegate that opportunity. If that is the case, there's a lot of scenarios we'll actually bring him on the call and I'll just like disappear from the conversation. And then it's a natural handoff where he'll do the follow-up and it's out of sight, out of mind for me.

Yep.

Increasingly I go back and forth on this. So on one hand, there's the philosophy of like sales kill— time kills all deals, which is very true. And for the past year or two, my immediate response is, you free tomorrow? I used to say like, are you free later today? And sometimes people would say yes. The like 90% of the time they'll pick a time later in the week or early next week. And that time is usually based on their willingness to buy. So I think it depends on their own sales cycle or your own sales cycle. But a lot of the time, half the people that I have a sales call with, they're not ready to buy for like 3 months. And I'm like, I'm glad we had this call this week. It could have been next week. But at the same time, there are some that want to buy tomorrow. And so increasingly I just put it on their plate. I'm like, you're free this week, next week, what's your schedule like? And if they choose next week, that means even if we talked this week, they're going to want to have a follow-up call next week anyway, and it doesn't need to happen tomorrow.

Yeah.

Versus others, when I say this week or next week and they're like, you're free tomorrow, I'm like, okay, they're ready to buy. Let's hop on a call tomorrow.

I gave you a long-winded answer, but I didn't actually give you my answer. I think this— every sales call should be booked yesterday. Yeah, like, I, I, every single sales call, the second someone wants to talk, you should find a way to talk to them as soon as you can.

Yeah.

So I agree with you. It's all to say that you probably need to make other adjustments operationally where it's like either you're growing too much, so you have to have like a salesperson where you can actually trust to delegate some of that workload, or you have other responsibilities that are causing you to stay up till 12:00 at night that are not sales related that someone else within the business should be doing. The reason I love— I think that is like having a co-founder where all they're doing is trying to drive revenue and sales makes business in general so much easier because his only job is how do I make more money? So every time he talks to a brand or I introduce him to someone, it's get on the phone with them as fast as you can. And that should be the perpetual mindset all the time, despite the fact that their buying cycle might be a couple of weeks, a couple of months. It's not for you to decide that until you actually talk to them and qualify that. And so I think the urgency is really important. I'll give you one anecdote. The most recent deal we just closed, I got introduced to this guy through a mutual friend. I got on the phone with him. He goes, yo, I'm going on paternity leave starting Monday. I want to start this process, so all I have to do is like check in. He literally said this verbatim: I want to check in while I'm burping my baby at every step of the process just to make sure things are moving, but I need to get this done now. We had that— we literally had a signed contract within 12 hours of our intro call.

It's crazy.

One call close.

One call close. Love it. He emailed me and said, I'm honored to be working with you. I was like, this guy is thanking me to be— I'm like, you're paying me money, why are you thanking me?

What is currently on your plate? In your zone of, uh, everything?

Up until last Friday, it was only hiring. That's hiring and marketing, I guess, but hiring was my number one focus.

All right, so is yours currently hiring and marketing?

Uh, I just finished this hiring spree of 14 people. It just finished on Friday, which is like the most exciting thing that's happened to me, I think, in the last year within the business.

Are they all starting on the same day, or, uh, no, it's been staggered.

We actually had one on the same— no, no, we had—

no, we're trying to figure it out. Like, do we we like group people together or do we do a little bit more of a study?

Everyone had a different situation actually, oddly enough. So like one, uh, we have, we have one who just started today, we have one more starting on the 22nd, I think that's next Monday, uh, and then the last outstanding one had a 90-day out clause that he's a principal engineer at another company and so he's not starting till September 1st, uh, but our— we were trying to get everyone to start as soon as we can and we're more in the camp of like we'll figure it out as we go but we need these people urgently. Um, so hiring was very much the big thing. Now it's, I mean, it's been, it's been marketing growth and then hiring, and now it's back to, to marketing and growth.

What, what is under marketing and growth?

Uh, that's everything from like website, case studies, uh, every growth cha— content is like the biggest by far.

Yeah. But your own content or company content?

Everything. It's a combination of my content, company content. Uh, we're about to do some way more aggressive things on like LinkedIn across the company. Yeah, uh, and ultimately it's just like coming up with all my silly ideas on like how to growth hack and then having like people who can help execute those and bring those to life.

What's the biggest acquisition channel for you guys right now?

Uh, I would say it's either organic content, which is a blend between Twitter, LinkedIn, or relationships and referrals. And so I guess you can call that partner program, but it's like not always like a traditional tech partner. It could be like a a dude who just happens to know a bunch of brands. Like Eric, I've told you about. Yeah, he's introduced me to over 30 brands. So it's just like finding— my job is just like, honestly, meet— my job now is just like meet people. Like, I need to be in the right place at the right time with the culturally relevant people to make sure that Platter is top of mind where it needs to be, when it needs to be, so that like the right conversations and opportunities are coming from it.

Okay, that's not marketing, that's BD.

No, I think it's a function of both though. I'm not selling, but I'm— yeah, because— yes, because I'm not actually doing the selling.

I know, but that's still— that falls under—

you come in. Yeah, but you come in the door, I send you to Mike.

Okay, so you're doing BD and marketing? Sure. Yeah, got it. I thought you were just doing content. I was like, that is crazy.

No, I mean, it's— yeah, but the hiring piece, I downplay it like it's very simple. It's like there's a lot that goes into that. Yeah, like I'm responsible for all the onboarding, like making sure people are up to speed, like making sure everyone's like— we're tracking people properly, like Um, I would say that my job for the last year is going— like, there's a huge transformation that's happening like right now in terms of how my job is going to evolve because we finally got all the people in place to do a lot of the things that we haven't been able to do. So I haven't been able to pull a lot of the levers that I've wanted to from like a BD growth side because we haven't had the resources to actually fulfill what I envision us being able to do.

Yeah, you guys have a big quarter coming up, or big 6 months.

Yeah, the next 6 months is like pretty defining for us, I'd say.

I was gonna say, you have 14 people, if you're responsible for onboarding too, I mean Good luck in the next couple.

I mean, we went from— no, we're almost done. We're— yeah, no, we have, uh, we have one who started today, one starting the 22nd, and one more September 1st, but everyone else is already up to speed.

Got it. Yeah, it makes sense.

But like, we had one who started Monday, one who last started last Monday, so like, people are like— it's kind of been trickling in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What are your big acquisition channels? And also, let's just talk through sales more broadly.

Yeah.

What have you learned? How do you approach it?

Yeah, acquisition channels I mean, luckily right now we're getting a ton of organic inbound, but there's always a source. But there's always a source. Google, for sure.

Wow.

Yeah, you guys doing SEO stuff?

Yes. Oh, hell yeah, a lot of it.

I mean, yeah, if it's working, you gotta double down.

It is, it is crazy to see the level and seniority of people looking for things like, literally verbatim, ice cream cake manufacturer on Google. Someone at a top 3 or 4 retailer was searching for that, which you'd believe, like, these guys have all the resources in the world, they should have access to everything possible, and, you know, XYZ huge retailer should know who to go to for an ice cream cake project, right?

100%.

It is crazy. It's been astonishing just how many people are coming through organically through just SEO. We obviously spend on SEM as well, so we're showing up in the, in the right spaces, but Google is probably our biggest marketing channel right now. I've also started to post a little bit more on LinkedIn, which I got to get over, like, my self-conscious— like, my—

don't even get me started. I'll give you all— I'll hammer into you.

This has probably been the number— like, the biggest stressor for me in the last, like, 2 weeks, just because I've always been very, very, very self-conscious and probably too aware where, like— or maybe not aware is the right word, but, um, like because I'm more or less the CPG founder in the, in the room, and like I have a lot of connections in the consumer products world, like that's where I come from. Yeah, like me posting on LinkedIn, I don't have a ton of followers, but I have enough for it to like get like 25,000 to 50,000 impressions like per post right now, which is— I don't even know if that's good, but it's like whatever. Um, like I can generate organic leads and, you know, coming up with content and then figuring out if my, like, buddies at home are gonna think I'm a dumbass.

It's just like, okay, ready? I'm gonna— we're gonna— we're gonna solve this.

I have a tactic.

We're gonna— we're gonna solve this.

I need it all because I actually think it's the highest leverage thing that I can be doing for the business.

Makes me sick. Well, if it makes you feel better, uh, LinkedIn is like our number one, uh, acquisition channel and organic strategy. So I can sit with you for hours and tell you what to do. But the number one thing I can say in terms of getting over this in like a very quick amount of time What's the— what podcast do you listen to? What's your favorite podcast?

Favorite podcast is probably Invest Like the Best.

Do you remember the first episode? Do you remember the first episode they put out?

No.

Yeah, no one does. No one gives a fuck. That's the point. That's the point.

Very fair.

People care. They don't care.

Yeah.

Like, go in the streets of New York and just start screaming shit. Like, maybe some people will look at you. Most people won't.

Yeah.

You are so stuck in your own head. And every single person I talk to for whatever reason, people have come to me about this because I'm so like unapologetically authentic on social too. Like sometimes maybe to a degree where it's like, dude, you should probably peel back a little bit. Yeah, but it's because you can't care what other people think. And ultimately the people who are going to make comments are actually the people who are jealous about it and the people who will. So the way that it— the way the transgression works is you will post something, it maybe won't get a bunch of engagement because you just started. And you have your friends, they're like chirping you like, dude, what is this? This is kind of stupid.

And then your best friends and roommate probably got more likes on his comment on my— on one of my posts.

Okay.

But now he's just like, I mean, he's a— he's a dumbass. He was one of my roommates, but I like posted this like 4th of July Twinkie thing, which was just kind of a miss of a post anyways. But I just like did it, whatever. And he commented like, so excited. Like, it was just bullshit. He was like, so excited, man. Can't wait to go to a 7-Eleven to go buy my cherry filled Twinkie. And like, literally my entire like friend group in college plus like I mean, it was insane.

So here's what happens though. So like, they'll start chirping you. Yeah, you'll get over the hump where it will start to crush.

Yep.

They'll eventually shut up and then they'll start asking you about how'd you do this.

Yep.

I've seen it happen. It happened to me. It's happened to a lot of my friends. You need to understand that like you're in your own head about it. And the only way to combat people in your life who you think are judging you is twofold. One is like they're kind of shitty if they continue to do that to you after like making— of course they're going to poke fun. Those are your best friends. Like mine did the same thing. But then when it becomes real and you actually start to get traction out of it, they're like, fuck, that's actually kind of cool. So the only way out of it is to keep your head down and act like you don't actually see them, even though you know it's bothering the shit out of you.

Yeah, I have a practical loophole. One, everything he said is 100% correct and you just got to do it and I know you'll get there. Practical loophole. I'm not really connected with anyone from like middle school or high school on LinkedIn. Like, I didn't have LinkedIn at the time. Definitely connected with like a bunch of college buddies on there. And I, at one point it was still in my head and I was posting content. I've been posting content for years. It was still in my head about it. Cause one of my buddies like texted me and he was like, this is so stupid. And I was like, I just felt bad about it. And so I had my VA, this, it took 20 minutes. I said, I recorded a Loom. I said, hey, go into LinkedIn, filter out Brown University and remove connection from everyone.

Dude, come on.

Oh my God.

That is just letting them, that is letting them win. I hate that. I hate that.

Unfortunately. It worked.

I hate that. I never thought about it ever again.

No, I've never thought about it once.

Don't be— don't let people around you bother you. No, that's so— that's fucking bullshit. Don't let people around you bother you so much. Yeah, like you got to just do what's best for you and trust in yourself, and eventually people start to envy it and respect it. Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, like, I, I was on a sports team in college. Yeah, like Amplify. I mean, we're in a fraternity. Yeah, it's the same shit. It's like you could walk in the locker room, it was like, you're a fucking loser. Like, what is this? Like every— you listen to Brett, we had a YouTuber with a million subscribers on our podcast yesterday. Like, he had friends like, dude, what, why are you posting like videos of you making a Rubik's Cube on YouTube? It's like, joke's on you, I get paid to travel the fucking world now. Like, yeah, you have to, you have to be unbothered and you have to have thick skin and recognize that like putting in reps, you will build the callus to it. Eventually you will not give a fuck. Yeah, like, I'm, I'm mad that he just told me that. Like, I hate these, I hate that a lot.

He is right. But short-term practical, if it will help you post more, sure.

If it's gonna help you get over the hump, fine. I actually think those are the people you should be fucking posting for.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm probably not gonna do that, but I do like— if you need a loophole, no, no, I know, I know. I, I don't know.

I think it's a loophole. It's just like put your nuts on the table and stop fucking giving shit.

I guess it's more like right now I feel like it is a volume game versus a quality game, and I like am very I really want— I always tell like our like marketing team and growth team, I'm like, when we're thinking about content ideas, like I really want there to be an oh shit takeaway or something that's like, that was tactical that I can do. I don't want to be like the tech founder with like, this is how we do this and these are 6 ways for you to improve your business type of thing. I really want it to be like, oh shit, like someone shared my post because it was informative and they want to share it with their team. But I also don't know if that's the best way to like scale my—

you, you should not— not every single post you make should be deliberately like something about your business or why do we need to use this. Like you sprinkle that in with like other lifestyle type stuff. I'll give you an example. We did the retreat last weekend. We did like a founder retreat. There's like 25 founders in like an Airbnb. And I wrote a post about it. And the gist of the post was just like people who feel like misfits, especially entrepreneurs, when you're around people who don't understand it. And then you're in a— you're in an environment where other people around you also want to talk about big ideas at 4 p.m. on a Saturday. Like, that's when you know you kind of found your type of people. That anecdote is not like, oh, go buy Platter, but it's something that people will read and they might resonate with. And if they do, they're going to consume more. And if they don't, like, you're probably not the person I was speaking to anyways.

Yep.

I think you combine be useful, be authentic.

Yep.

And always do a mix of both. I know we only— we have a hard stop in like a minute, right?

Yeah. We can go.

Anything else you want to go?

No, I'm just fired up. I could have gone on and on about—

we've got Ben going.

Okay.

Can you talk to the left camera? But tell them where they can find Keychain, where they can find you, given you're going to be posting more.

Yeah, you need the turning pro moment first.

Oh, fuck. Okay, it's probably around sending that DM, committing to the company. But were there any low moments or insecurities during that process that you were like, no, I'm not going to stay in VC or stay in private equity, I'm going to go do this even if it's scary?

Yeah, I mean, I think So the question is like the low, a low moment, just the biggest turning pro moment in your life where it was like, all right, time to take things to the next level where you really leveled up as a professional.

Oh, it was definitely when O'Sheen responded to my cold DM. I mean, that was like, I gave him enough color over this DM that made it like he could decide in that moment if it was interesting enough. And then he responded, this is interesting. And I think that was the moment I was like, oh shit, like Let's try to take this to the next level. First coffee I had with them, it was like an even more of an oh shit moment. And then I was like sold. Like, let's start, let's start doing this.

Yeah, that's fucking incredible. Yeah, it's that moment in time where I think you've had this with some of the big customers that have started working with Platter, that the pitch that you think about all the time that you're like, is this even real? And then someone with a crazy logo behind them is like, that's exactly what I want.

Exactly. It's like, whoa. I still pin the tweet and every single time I like open up the app, I like go to it.

You got to print that out. It's like cool.

It's awesome.

Yeah, I really, I like it a lot. Yeah, it's awesome.

That's a good one. Okay, now talk to the left camera. Tell them where people can find you and Keychain.

Yes. Um, LinkedIn, just Jordan, uh, Weitz, W-E-I-T-Z, and then Keychain is www.keychain.com.

Wow. What a flex.

We got the domain.

How much did that cost? Could you disclose that? We can do it off camera.

We can talk about it in a second.

Um, it's a good domain.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.