#060: How John Sampogna Turned 13 Years of Agency Leadership Into Next-Level Growth

Well, first, that's amazing. And like, isn't that the most rewarding feeling in the world?

Best feeling.

Like witnessing scale.

When something works when you don't have to do anything.

Yeah, you're like, that's— I think that's scale right there. I like that. Um, it's such a good story because, uh, it's those moments that you feel a little bit better about like going on vacation. It'll be all right. If you have an idea to build a product, whether it's a like a consumer product, a SaaS business, you hit pause and you decide like, Do I need to spin something else up or do I not want to do the agency thing anymore? I do. I think an agency business needs 100% of your focus and attention to be good and viable. And I think building a SaaS company, building a consumer company needs 100% to be successful. Are there outliers out there that have done it? Of course. Will there be more in the future? Yes. Is it scalable for many? No.

John Samponia, co-founder and CEO of Wondersauce, has built one of the most respected digital agencies by recognizing opportunities for service expansion and staying hyper-focused on client needs. Founded on the principle of transparent communication and consistent delivery, Wondersauce has grown by incubating new services and scaling its offerings organically to meet market demands. In this episode of Turning Pro, John shares how Wondersauce has evolved from its early days to competing with top-tier agencies for major clients. He reflects on pivotal moments in his career, the challenges of scaling a service business, and his approach to maintaining personal fulfillment and work-life balance as a leader in the creative industry.

Welcome back to Season 3, Episode 3 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have John Samponia, who's the co- founder and CEO of Wondersauce joining us. Thanks for joining today.

Thanks for having me, guys.

So I want to talk about new service incubation, right? Because you guys started as one and then you slowly launched more. For context, I run a B2B content agency and we work with both startups as well as like Fortune 500 companies. And the thing we are very good at today, we're very niche today. It's long form kind of go-to-market assets. So think sales enablement, case studies, product marketing. And every single day I talk to new clients that want that. And then express interest in socials, in lifecycle marketing, like email nurturing. We're never gonna go into paid, but they wanna do SEO, they wanna do PR, and they're always asking us for referrals. And there are a couple of those things that I think we could do, but we, so far, we've really stayed focused on the main thing. And so walk me through your own progression in terms of you're getting all these asks, you're seeing that maybe other agencies working with your current clients aren't doing this other thing well. Walk me through like step by step what the incubation and scaling of a new service line looks like.

Right. So the first thing is, if the same ask keeps coming up, not only is it telling that there's most likely a gap in the market, but it feels to other people not in your business like this should potentially live within your business. So it isn't out of left field and it isn't like you're just stretching because you need more money or you want more money. Um, so it feels natural and there's clearly a need. So that's one. Uh, two is I think just being transparent. I, I think that people get into, into problems when they claim to be experts at things they're not. So I think a natural conversation is, um, first identifying who internally may be good at this skill. There's usually people. Um, and it's funny, they, they usually kind of like don't mention it right away because they're afraid they're going to get like resourced to more stuff. Um, but there's always people in-house that can kind of help you with that. And I think you'll also identify where the gap might be and whether or not you can fill that quickly as a quick demo with a, with a freelancer. And I think that, um, just like anything, it takes a little— whether it's, you know, putting in extra hours and sweat equity in, in building it or putting money to it. But I'd go to the client and I would just say, yes, we can help you. Full transparency, this is something we've been working on. Um, we want to demo with you. We're not going to charge you. If you're open to even just a, a small fee for, um, covering some external costs, um, that would be awesome. But if not, we, we totally, um, get it. All we ask for in return is that you give us good feedback. And if you like the service, consider us for more work in the future and tell your friends about it. Um, that usually works. People will be willing to say, like, I mean, we're either not— no one's doing it right now, so we need someone to do it, and you just said I'll do it for free, so that sounds good. Um, and, and two, uh, doing a good job, and we're gonna bid this out anyway. I know you, I trust you, you're delivering for me elsewhere, and the fact that you've been that transparent with me feels, feels good to me, so let's give it a shot. Um, and then I think it's just about protecting yourself. Like, put a, put a little bit of a timestamp on it. Like, we are going to hit this for 30 days, you're going to be— we're going to promise you X deliverables, and then it's, it's over. And put a contract in place, even though it's, uh, even though it is, it is not a paid project. You know, protect yourself both from a time liability standpoint, all that good stuff. But you do that once or twice, you have a bunch of learnings about whether or not you actually want to take it on, and then you start thinking about how you can price it and monetize it. Um, but it's as simple as that, honestly. Uh, a lot of this stuff are natural extensions to what you're doing. And I think I, I was talking earlier about just how intertwined the customer journey is today and the implications that, you know, your creative campaign, your paid media efforts, and your, you your, your own properties have. They're all interdependent. So there's so many natural extensions that you need to be aware of just to do your core service really well. So, um, yeah, I'm always looking for like, what are people talking about? Because it's usually, um, the first sign that there's like an opportunity in the market to expand.

How do you think about, uh, keeping the communication flows cohesive that happen through the business? Like, you have so many customers in so many different parts of your business, you're getting feedback all over the place. Like, what is the process to actually pull that all in into one area where you can, like, distill it down and make actionable, like, changes to your business as a C-suite?

Yeah, I wrote this thing a few months ago about how not to botch your agency onboarding, and there was a whole section on this. But we have so many tools at our disposal, all of us now, and they're all great.

What are your favorite tools?

Honestly, I'm pretty basic, man. Slack is great right now. I really like that. Personally, I use Notes a lot, very lo-fi. Um, but for me, it's just consistency and defining the rules of engagement when we kick something off. So when we're sitting down with a client, before the kickoff meeting actually happens, we're gathering their onboarding— the, the onboarding materials. We're talking about like how like the loose timeline will take shape, who are the key stakeholders on their side, how to— who needs to approve what. and there's a whole section on comms tools. Um, we have clients that wanna be in a shared Slack. We're talking to them very casually every single day. There isn't like these fancy big reveals where, where we're doing these polished presentation, like Don Draper style, like, here's the idea. It's like they're seeing like our Figma files live. Uh, it's very like kind of raw. And we have other clients where it's the complete opposite. But I think that if we agree that, you know, we're gonna be in a shared Slack, And then formalized communication around feedback, which is so, so important, is gonna be an email. And we don't need a response to that email until 48 hours when the feedback is due. Um, I'm, I'm oversimplifying this, but like, then let's be consistent there. Day-to-day updates are in Slack. We're gonna pin the, the big things to do in Slack every morning. Larger, not urgent communications coming through email. All of our files are gonna be uploaded to a Dropbox and it lives here. Those are the rules of engagement. Unless things are truly on fire, I do not wanna see a text message, a call, or anything that breaks that, that comms flow cuz it's unnecessary. And all it does is just trigger people to do, um, to act really urgently cuz it's obviously like, well, this isn't normal. Why is someone texting me? Text me all day long if it's urgent, but keep it consistent. And then we have other clients where it's, it's, it's a little bit more, um, kind of like Long Lead where most of the comms are through email. Slack is just for the internal team, but we're, we're talking about this all day long, uh, internally. And I think that the key is just to be consistent with the channels you're using. More doesn't mean it's better. You don't need to introduce every single new tool that has come out in the last 6 months. Um, stick to what is, is working and keep it simple.

I love your notes on consistency and consistency of both communication as well as deliverables. So I'm like 2 and a half years, kind of similar to Platter, into our business. And in the early days, like all our early clients, I was just going above and beyond and I thought I should help on BD and go-to-market outside of just content. And it's funny, now we've had the first kind of clients that have been with us for like 12 months or so that I'm pretty out of. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm still in the Slack, but like, I'm not actively involved in delivery. and they just got to the point that they're happy and they're doing case studies with us. And I was reading some of the case studies and again, they're just interacting with my team and the things they said again and again, and they almost seemed happier than our early clients that I was going above and beyond for. And their communication in the case studies was just verbatim, told us what they were gonna do and they did exactly that consistently with great communication.

Yeah.

And my mind was, this happened last week and my mind was a little blown because in my mind there was some kind of ego clinging to the old ways and I was like, but they love that I, jumped in above and beyond. And the feedback now is just like, they told us they were going to do good work, and they did good work and showed up every day. And increasingly, I feel like that's really what it's about. And have you had a similar experience as you guys kind of scaled?

Well, first, that's amazing. And like, isn't that the most rewarding feeling in the world?

Best feeling.

Like witnessing scale.

When something works when you don't have to do everything.

Yeah, you're like, that's— I think that's scale right there. I like that. Uh, no, that, that's, that's such a, it's such a good story because, uh, it's those moments that, um, you know, you feel a little bit better about like going on vacation and you're like, it'll be all right. Like, I am not that smart. It's going to be fine. Um, and yeah, I think like we, we kind of experienced that, you know, quite a bit. Um, I am involved in a bunch of client work. And I'm not involved in a lot of it. Um, and what I mean by that is, um, for many of our clients, I am involved behind the scenes a lot. I join creative brainstorms. Uh, I'll riff on ideas with teams. They'll bring me into it, but I'm not client-facing. Um, I, I'll let the team kind of do the work and take credit for the work. Um, and then in other situations, I am very much like in front of clients. And it all depends on where I think I can add value and what makes the most sense, because there's also a lot of things that I'm working on that are behind the scenes and are more operations-focused. And I'm usually very transparent with clients. Like, I'm probably on about 20% of our business development calls and pitches at this point. And it's usually stuff that we're trying to really, like, beef up our expertise in. And I've said this to clients a number of times because I have a very, like, a very raw way of pitching. And I say they're like, well, we love, we love these conversations. They're so authentic. But then you were going to— we're going to go with you guys and you're going to be gone. And I literally say, like, I really only pitch on work that I'm involved in right now to avoid this conversation. So I will be involved in key meetings. I will be involved in key deliverables. But I'm the last person you want, like, writing the final copy or coding your site or anything like that. I'm not gonna do that, nor should I be. Um, so I'm very transparent about that. And then it's funny, you start to see it happen across the agency with different team members that aren't you. And, um, they, they, they almost build these sub-brands within the agency where people really like this person and that person. They want them really focused on the business. And that's just, it's great to see and it's scale and it's, uh, It's what it's for me at least, what makes services businesses very rewarding. You get to see people shine at what they're great at. 100%.

So you've been in the business now for 13 years, I think you mentioned. Have there been moments where like you've fallen into the shiny object syndrome? Like you start to get more successful, you start to get more opportunities put in front of you. There were moments where you have this temptation to like do other things. I think like there's— I only recall one other person we've had on this podcast who's been in their business for at least a decade. So I really commend it. I think it's amazing. I don't think a lot of people have the discipline to be able to do it.

I have to be focused. Um, I think that when you have success as an entrepreneur early on— and we started Wondersauce, we were like 26 and 27, and I think we, we, we sold the business when we were 32 or something, 31. Um, so we were pretty young, and That doesn't mean though that you are going to be able to start other businesses and have the same success. So being self-aware that what you have is special. And also, I, I, I really geek out on like the CEO I am today is so much better than the leader I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago. I'm battle-tested, I've learned a lot, and there's so much value in that and what I can apply to future things I do. Um, but for me, like, I was always very, very against, you know, agencies building products. If you have an idea to build a product, whether it's a, like, a consumer product, uh, a SaaS business, that's when you, like, you hit pause and you decide, like, do I need to spin something else up? Um, or do I not wanna do the agency thing anymore? I do. I think an agency business needs 100% of your focus and attention to be good and viable. And I think building a SaaS company, building a consumer company needs 100% to be successful. Are there outliers out there that have done it? Of course. Will there be more in the future? Yes. Is it scalable for many? No. Um, so for me, I get exposure to that stuff through my clients. Who we get the honor and privilege of working with super talented business leaders and startup founders. Um, and then through investments, like I can invest in a company or, uh, or help advise on the side. Um, and, and watch from the sidelines. I don't need to be hands-on with those companies. And if and when I ever do something again in the future, I'd want to go at it 100%, 100%. But I think what's made us, um, what's led to longevity here has been that we are hyper-focused on what we are. We're a services business. Um, and while starting agencies is very easy, like the three of us can start one this afternoon. We can file an LLC in Delaware.

We'd have 5 clients by the end of the day.

Yeah, we can start one in 2 seconds. But like there's, there's thresholds and levels.

Totally.

So I think I'm very proud of like the operational business we've built. So Um, it's always tempting though to jump into new things cuz it's fun.

Can you talk about your decision to— so you sold the business, then you decided to stay in the business?

Yeah, I mean, um, like I said, we had an incredible run. It was, uh, it was like a pinch me scenario for 5 years straight where, you know, we had no outside funding. We started the business with like a little bit of money that we had saved. We had a very small client that we had won freelancing, and we just kind of organically built this thing. Um, by the time we were in year 5, um, the operational component of the business became a burden. So every month needing $1 million to fund payroll, office, and expenses, it's a lot. And yes, you have a line of credit with the bank, you have cash flow coming in, but like even collections for good clients is a full-time position, basically making sure that like, you know, your net 30, net 45, net 60, net 120 in some cases are paying on time, that when you get new clients, you're watching like, are they going to pay on time? Because that's a, that's a data point you need to know. So like the operational side of things became very cumbersome. Then you start just getting like solicitations. You get really credible businesses contacting you to talk. What do they want to talk about? Acquisition. And we had a couple coffees with people and lunches and first meetings and second meetings. And finally we paused and we were like, what are we doing? Are we selling the business or are we not? Because if we are, we shouldn't just do this like haphazardly. Um, we're still relatively early in our journey as entrepreneurs and we want to keep doing this. So if we're gonna sell the agency, let's do it in a very organized way. And we ran a formal process. We met with every different type of, um, potential acquirer you can find. And we found an incredible company that lived up to literally everything they promised. They, uh, they're called Project Worldwide. They own, um, a little more than a dozen agencies that operate independently. Um, what we liked the most about Project was that, um, I think all but one of the agencies still have the founder operating the business years after acquisition.

Wow.

It is truly a unicorn within the agency acquisition space.

That's crazy.

That's so rare too.

So rare. Wow. And it's because they value independence and entrepreneurial people. So, um, I, I love that story because here we are 6 years later and I'm still operating the business and I still feel like an entrepreneur even though I report into someone right now. Technically, I owe them business plans. I, and I, I owe them, you know, a good, a good year. Um, but for me it was, it was about finding a home for the business that, um, was going to allow Wondersauce as a brand to keep growing and myself as a CEO to keep evolving and learning.

I feel like a lot of people see the North Star of building a company, especially like your first one, is getting acquired.

Yes.

Right. So you hit that North Star or perceived North Star, and then you decide to stay in the business beyond that. What is the new North Star for you?

The new North Star for me is, is just what it's always been. It's, it's building like true work-life balance where I feel personally fulfilled to go to work every day. Because I like what I do. I like the people I surround myself with, and I feel that there is flexibility to also spend time with my, my family and my friends and do things that interest me beyond work. I think that like you could subscribe to the idea of like a version of hustle culture, which is now like people don't people don't appreciate it as much as they did 10 years ago, um, and still have balance if you like what you're doing. Because like, I don't really find— like, this isn't work, we're just talking. Like, we're, we're talking, and, um, then I'll get to like talk about some brand stuff later that cross different industries and sectors, which is interesting to me.

Yeah.

Um, so for me, it's about like constantly figuring out how to improve um, my own fulfillment on a day-to-day basis. Um, and when things are super interesting, to like take note and say like, how do I do more of this? When things are not interesting, uh, figure out how to like find a process or a person that can make that better because I don't want to do it, so I'm clearly not doing it to the best of my ability. So replicate it with something else. So, uh, it's just, you know, it's just, uh, kind of like reflecting on what you want to do on a day-to-day basis.

On the note about showing up with fulfillment every day and energy every day for things that, in your words, are interesting to you and are exciting to you, there's a great interview with— I think it's like an Olympian marathoner or something. Yeah. And they're asking him, like, when you get up every day, are you just so passionate to run? And his response was, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, most days I don't want to go running.

Yeah.

And so tell me about that. Maybe go back to some of the early days though. You hadn't figured out some of these problems. You're still doing things that maybe you didn't want to do.

It's tough because there are many days where you don't want to do— you don't want to do something. And that, that isn't just work related. Like, there are days like I don't want to work out, I don't want to, um, you know, go somewhere, but you have to do it. And that discipline and repetition is important. Um, so, you know, for me it's like, how do you put yourself in a position where you're giving yourself the best chance to wake up every day and, uh, have energy levels and a clear mind? So it's taking care of yourself, like eating right. Um, I try— I do try and like work out early in the morning. I have a 2-and-a-half-year-old who now— she's great, she wakes up at like 8 in the morning, which is— wow, like the girl likes to sleep. Um, so I usually wake up at like 5:30 and I'll do a workout and I'm like ready to go drinking coffee by 7 and I feel like awake and alert. And even if I'm in like in a bad mood, at least I'm awake and alert in a bad mood. But for the most part, uh I try and I try and keep positive, but like, I mean, I'm, I'm not like, like I said, I'm turning 40 tomorrow. I'm not like out drinking and like beating my body up. I'd be miserable. So I think it's about putting yourself in a position where you're giving yourself the chance to like want to run a marathon every day, not knowing that you don't want to. It's about like, but I can physically do it because my body feels okay.

So what do you like to do away from work? Like, what are your hobbies or what's exciting to you right now?

Um, a lot of things. So I play golf. I've been playing golf since I was like 15.

What's your handicap?

Uh, I'm getting good. Uh, I'm down to like a 6.6. Wow. Which is a problem.

You want to know? You want to know how he closed all his biggest deals? 6.6 handicap. Come on the course.

If I win, you're closing. Yeah.

If I beat you, you're my client.

So this is funny. Uh, You know, I've been working since I was 20. I think I've had 2 business meetings on the golf course, and I play golf. It doesn't happen anymore.

Yeah.

Um, one of our clients is golf.com, and, uh, we had just went to one of their, um, their big events at Pinehurst, uh, about right before the US Open. And I went to one of our, one of our clients, and I said, you know, this is like the first time I've ever had like a work golf thing. It's like, it feels, it feels great. Um, But I think like, I think like golf is such a good, a good thing to do because it's, it's the, it's an individual sport. You, you can only blame yourself for your successes and your failures. And it's like the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And those emotions can swing in seconds, just like running a business. You could be in the gutter contemplating whether or not this is for you, and then you get a Slack or a call and you're like, I'm back. This is the best.

I have such a love-hate relationship with golf. It's unbelievable. Like, more than anything, I go through moments where I'm like obsessed with it and then they'll be like— like the last time I played, I was shooting the best round I ever had and like blew up on the last hole. And it's like you just walk off the course And you just got to battle with it. Like, it's just part of the game.

Yeah, I remember, like, on the 18th hole, I remember vividly, like, oh my God, I've never broken 100 before. How do I break 100? And then you, you mess it up, and then it's like, I've never broken 90. How do I do that? And then, like, you can't do it. And then eventually it's like 89. And now the, the most recent one was last year. I had never broken 80, and I did it for the— I did it one time last year, and then this year I, I've done it now. I I think 3 times, and I'm normalizing it where on the, on the 18th tee box, I'm no longer like, all right, shit, like, don't hit it out of bounds. I just, I just have to double this hole and I'll shoot 79. Like, it's not the wrong way of looking at it. Like, go for the birdie, go for the par. Like, you don't— maybe like the right way of looking at it is like, if I birdie this, it's a 75. Like, yeah. So, um, it's such a, it's such a frustrating sport and I love it. And then the other thing I do is like, I've been taking guitar lessons on and off since I was 17. My guitar teacher now I've had for a few years is a Berklee School of Music grad, lives in Nashville, he's a beast. And he's like 22 and he beats me up once a week with like theory and exercises and things that like, I used to wanna go to, I wanted to go to Berklee when I was like 16, 17. I decided not to because I just didn't want performance to be the profession. I wanted that to be like a hobby. Um, but it is so humbling to just like get destroyed on an instrument that you think you're good at and you realize that like you're not even close.

I played violin back in the day.

You did?

Yeah, for 6 years. That was the first chair of my orchestra.

If we brought in a violin, you could—

no, I wouldn't. It wouldn't be pretty. Uh, eventually it hit a point where my teacher agreed that I was a little too aggressive and that hockey was the best, that hockey hockey was the better option. And then I finally was able to go to my parents and be like, okay, I'm allowed to quit now because my teacher told me I shouldn't be doing this anymore.

So you weren't doing hockey before that?

No, I was, but like, I was the kid where I'd be playing in the yard with my friends and my mom would like have to come pull me out to go to fucking violin lesson, and I would throw a fit every single time. And I found out when I was older that my dad, who's a doctor, it was his rule that all of us had to play an instrument. Yeah, but he would be at work And my mom would be the punching bag who would hear it from me about how I didn't want to do it. She would just eat it. And then I found out like a decade later, my mom's like, Ben, honestly, I didn't care if you played or not. It was your dad who was adamant about it. I was like, I was like, Dad, you're such a coward. You just hide at work every day when it was time for violin lessons. That's amazing.

Do either of you listen to David Senra's podcast Founders?

Uh, yeah, I actually, I was listening to an episode yesterday.

Uh, Murakami one?

No, I'm blanking. Uh, a friend of mine who's an investor sent it to me. I'll look after and tell you. Have you ever heard of the podcast?

I haven't. No.

He basically reads biographies of really famous entrepreneurs and then kind of adds his notes and will walk you through the book. I'll send you a couple episodes.

He crushes it.

You said the last one was on Murakami, the author?

Yeah, the author.

I read a bunch of his stuff.

No. Okay. So I listened to this. I was driving back from New Hampshire last night and I was listening to the Murakami episode. Yeah, must listen. And the takeaway was that it was not his biography that autobiography that he just wrote was not only about writing, but the book was mostly about running. And a big part of, at least the podcast kind of walks you through it, a big part of the book was how he worked so hard to find the lifestyle, like the guardrails of your life outside of work that fit you. And do that as early as you can. And he was saying that he was really honest with himself at a certain point because he was running a jazz bar and was smoking 60 cigarettes a day and mixing drinks before he started writing. And he was saying that for the longest time, he always felt friction with that because he thought he was a morning person. And now he's a morning person and he works for 5 hours, gets up at like 5:30, 6:00 AM and runs. And he was talking about the same thing with a sport. So for the longest time, he was thinking about doing team sports and he wasn't sure it was right for him. And then he found running and it really fit his personality. And so a lot of the things that you're talking about right now, you're a morning person, you're working out, you really like golf because it's kind of like you versus you. How early did you recognize those things and kind of build out your day-to-day life around them? Or was that later in your—

later?

That was later.

It was way later. I don't, I don't think, um, yeah, I didn't put any, any real value on, on that at a younger age. I think it's because I was— now I'm like, I'm literally getting older and you need to be a little bit more conscious about that type of stuff. Where it becomes important. And also you start going to like doctors and they give you data points to worry about your health, so you have to like take measures to get yourself, um, physically to a good point. Um, but no, I used to be able to just like wake up and go.

I just think some people aren't conscious enough to like challenge limiting beliefs or like have the curiosity. Like you can go through life in a certain way and never have the thought of like 'Is this actually the way that I want to be or I should be?' The only way you know is by like trying something different. But I think a lot of people are scared to do something that's uncomfortable. Like I was telling you guys earlier, I, I sparred today for the first time in my life. My head is still kind of hurting. It was a very like scary experience for me, but I feel like you have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to like see if something is for you. And I, I feel like I know people in my life who've gone 30, 40, 50 years doing the same things over and over not even because they love it, but they didn't take the time to go figure out if there's something they loved more. So to the point of like, are you a morning person or a night person? If you never actually tried to be the opposite, you don't really know what you are beyond just like the self-talk of what you're telling yourself.

Yeah.

When we were— it's funny, when we were driving back, my girlfriend Karina and I have had this conversation a lot that right now we're going to bed at like 11, 11:30 together. But I know I am a morning person and I love it. And to do that, you need to go to bed at like 10, basically.

Yeah, right.

When do you go to bed?

Probably between like, yeah, 9:30 and 11.

Okay.

Something like that. Same.

And so I know the friction right now, not between ourselves, so I can have that time because I know that's my life and I know that it really is meant for me. And she, on the other hand, is a creative and she knows that she doesn't like going to bed at 11, 11:30. She wants to go to bed at 1.

Her day starts at 11.

Yeah, because she gets all this creative energy. And so right now we're both in this place where she's like not happy about the 11:30 bedtime and I'm not happy about the 11:30 bedtime. So we finally were just honest with each other and we were like, okay, we just need to go to bed. I need to go to bed earlier and you need to go to bed later. And we need to build that lifestyle around each other and make sure we're still spending time with each other. Yeah, but if we keep not kind of following our natural instincts, then it's not good for you and it's not good for me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being on different pages in that regard. I think it's actually better that you're honest about it.

I agree. And I think having that solo time to yourself too is so important.

Yeah, I think too, like This, this sounds like a little corny, but like listening to your body, um, both physically and mentally is something that I, I've, I've come to realize is just like way more efficient. There are days where I wake up and I just don't feel great, and maybe I don't need to like push myself in the gym. Maybe I should just like relax, go for a walk. And like if I'm trying to tackle a work deliverable and it's not feeling right I don't need to force it unless there's a deadline. Um, but usually like if you force it, the work is gonna be less than ideal. And if you just let it come to you, it'll happen randomly and you'll knock it out so much faster and the quality will be there. And we have tools these days where you could literally like yell into your phone on Notes and then when you get back to your desk, throw it into like Grammarly, find the points that are broken and like use like ChatGPT to throw different things together and then do a clean pass as a human and edit it and it's done. Whether it's a 50-page strategy deck, a, a really stressful piece of internal communication or whatever. Uh, there are really interesting ways now to like make the most of when you're mentally at your best and not to force it. You could save time. That's why I always love like the idea of like AI's not gonna replace everything from an efficiency standpoint. It's gonna make when you're at your best the most efficient.

Tell me of battle scars without telling me of battle scars. It's just got like all these processes that you could rip. Uh, I have a question completely out in left field. Tell me about your tattoos.

Uh, the sleeves.

Yeah, like, are there— does each one have a significance to you? Is there a rhyme or reason? Was it impulsive?

So, uh, I had— when I turned 18, I got a tattoo. It was terrible. It was on my arm, and it had like— I guess it had meaning at the time. I don't know. And I got another one when I was like 21 or 22. I must have been younger than that. I must have been like 20. I was in the East Village on— at Ace Bar.

Oh God.

Didn't go to class. I was in college. I didn't go to class and we were playing pool and my buddy told me— my buddy kept telling people at the bar that I was afraid to get a tattoo and random people at like 3 PM would come up to me and tell me that. I was afraid, and I was like, I'm not afraid. And I went to like St. Mark's in an hour and got a tattoo. So those were two tattoos that actually have stories. Then like, I didn't get anything else until I was probably like 29 or 30, and I just really liked, uh, the Japanese, uh, traditional style of tattoos. So I found an artist that I really liked, and I just let him do whatever he wanted to my left arm. Um, so there's no meaning other than it's just all Japanese traditional. And my other arm is all American traditional. And same thing, like, I follow a bunch of artists on, on Instagram that I really like, and it's almost like getting a piece of art. And I've got people I really like to work with, and in many instances I'll walk in and I'll like pick something that they recently drew, um, or what they're known for, and I'll get that done. Um, and I do have like some meaning, like my, uh, my daughter, her name is Lucy, I call her Goose. So I've got a little goose right there. My wife's favorite flower is a tulip. We got that right there. My dad, he has a sharpening business. It's like a very Italian immigrant business where when he came here in like the '40s, his father, they drive around in a truck and they sharpen things. He took the business over and started it. My grandfather died at a very young age. My father was forced into work. And he's had the business ever since. So this is like a, a scissor from the side of his truck. So those are the only things that are— they have meaning. But like, I don't— like, I go in most of the time, I go in and I'm just like, that's cool, let's get it. Like, I definitely need a peacock on my bicep. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm so fascinated because I feel like it says a lot about who someone is from a personality perspective, depending on their answer to that question.

Yeah.

It's like, for me, I don't have any because I know I'd be way too OCD and like freak out about it.

If it wasn't like perfect, if it wasn't perfect.

Yeah, I, yeah, it's— I think about it and it freaks me out.

Did your family immigrate through like Ellis Island back in the day?

Yeah, uh, during World War II.

Where in New York did they immigrate to?

Uh, to— so they came into, you know, New York and ended up in, uh, different parts of Brooklyn. And then after the war, um, they— what, it's like the GI Bills, I think— they were able to buy houses in like those new, like, not Levittown, but a version of that where they were popping up the houses for largely for vets who were coming home and want to start a family. So right outside Queens in a town called Elmont is where I spent my first 10 years. So yeah, through New York.

Got it.

John, I think we're a little bit over here, which is usually a sign of a good conversation. I'm gonna leave you with one more question. So Turning Pro podcast. Is to double-click into the turning pro moments in your life as you reflect on your journey. Is there one moment looking back thus far that you think was game-changing for you?

I think that the misconception about Wondersauce early on was that like we were like only going to work with cool studio— it's cool startups, which was because it was a lot of our clients were cool startups. We were very early to the DTC thing. We had some awesome, like very early DTC businesses that we got to work with the founders that are now very household names. But our aspiration was always to be like a legit Madison Avenue agency. And I remember like this idea that like large businesses will never work with us because we're too young, too scrappy, and no one knows who we are. And I remember like 3 years in, we won a pitch against some very large traditional agencies for a large restaurant, very large restaurant. And we got the call. I remember that moment and I remember being like, wow, I think this is like a big turning point in the agency's trajectory. Now how do I sell this to the team to make people think this is gonna be cool? Mm-hmm. So I think it was that moment, like the first time, um, a legit big brand gave us their place to wrap.

Anything else on your end?

No, I'm good.

Can you talk to that camera on your left and tell them where they can find you and Wondersauce?

Yeah, you can find me at, uh, wondersauce.com and on LinkedIn, John Samponia.

Hell yeah. That's a wrap. Thanks for coming on, man.

Thanks, guys. Thanks for coming.