#065: How Samantha Coxe Raised $4M to Build Flaus

you just learn by doing. And something I learned at Skadden, which is truly like been one of the biggest life lessons of mine in the professional world, is no one knows what they're actually doing. Like everyone's just figuring it out. Even at Skadden with the most brilliant minds, no one knows what they're doing. And so realizing that gives you some freedom to under— like to play and to learn and to be curious. And so as I started on this journey, I just started to talk to a lot of other founders and then just Like, honestly, Google stuff.

Samantha Cox, founder and CEO of Floss, shares her journey from corporate law to disrupting the dental care industry with a groundbreaking new invention. Driven by her experience as a self-admitted reluctant flosser, Samantha identified a need for a more accessible flossing solution, especially for individuals with limited dexterity or visual impairments. This insight led her to create Floss, the world's first electric flosser. In this episode, Samantha reflects on her experience as a female founder in a male-dominated field, navigating queen bee syndrome and championing other women in business. She shares the highs and lows of building a hardware startup, including an intense Shark Tank appearance and managing production setbacks. Welcome back to Season 3, Episode 8 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have Sam Cox, who is the founder and CEO of Flaus. Thanks for joining us today, Sam.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So I want to jump right into this and talk about your senior thesis. The Assertive Female Leader: Boss or Bitch. Yeah, that title, after getting to know Sam, just like embodies everything. And so when I saw that, I was like, we gotta start there.

Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah, so I went to USC for undergrad. I was a psychology major, which was like the best major ever. It has come in handy so much. And then I did my senior honors thesis. It was The Assertive Female Leader: Boss or Bitch, and it was really focused on female leaders in the workplace. At the time, um, it was a really big push of like the, the glass ceiling, women who lean in, that whole conversation. And it was so fascinating. So a lot of my thesis was very much focused on something called the Queen Bee Syndrome, where basically there are women who have made it to the top of these really male-dominated environments, and there is a proclivity of these women to make it more difficult for other women to reach the top versus helping them rise the ranks, sort of like what happens in like a boys club. And so it was very, very interesting learning about that because that's something that I feel like I've run into both in the workplace at Skadden and then also too even with like my entrepreneurial journey as a female founder. And then also too, we were also looking at how when women take a very assertive stance and like are very strong in their beliefs, whereas a male might be that might be associated as being powerful and smart, but with a woman, it's being seen as being a bitch.

So really funny backstory, in, in real time, she just like gives you the look, a bitch, a bitch. In real time, I got the Glossier, uh, biography. Have you read it? The— it's like Emily Weiss Glossier from like early, early days of Into the Gloss all the way up until now, and I'm like halfway through it. And some of the coverage, it's really interesting, and then some of the coverage is so ridiculous. I, uh, Literally last night I was in the hotel and I was reading this page and they called out two specific things that Emily was doing badly. One of them was that a former employee complained about, I only got like a 6% annual raise this year.

Yeah.

And the second thing was that, yeah, sometimes, you know, Emily could be mercurial. Like she'd be asking about my day and then the minute later ask about some tough KPIs. And I was like, these are the most normal things to happen in any business.

Yes.

And there were, and the woman writing it was, the coverage was so ridiculous. Like how could, 'How could she transition so quickly?

She's so mercurial.' Well, there's so many hit pieces that have come out on these female-founded companies. One of them is like The Wing— that was a different one— and a lot of them are written by female writers. And it's just, yeah, it's just a totally different like barometer that we're holding these women to. Whereas if a man was doing that, like, 'Okay, how's your day?' and then switching over to be like, 'Okay, what are the metrics?' or 'How's the performance going?' you'd be like, 'Okay, he's being a great leader.

He cares about what's important.' I do that every 10 minutes.

That's like all of our jobs.

I literally do that every single day.

So So, but I always try to like, you know, being mindful of that, I always try to really let my service providers and partners know that like, this is just kind of how I operate. And to know that I come from a big law background and not to take it so personally. Like I just had one of my service providers where they didn't know a really basic metric and that was essentially our north star we are working towards. And I got on a call with them and I was like, If you guys don't know this, what else don't you know? And it was so interesting because this call, which is a totally fair question, right? Because like, I have no idea and I'm trusting this person with my, my business, my baby. And I think I just have really high standards. And the type of partners I look for are people that appreciate that and always want to be better because it's like we're always just trying to improve.

100%.

For younger female founders or maybe aspiring female founders listen to this or maybe like look up to you. With how you just don't take shit from anyone and stand for what you believe in, what would be your advice?

Um, I think it just comes with repetition. It just comes with repetition, honestly, because I am— I, I'm a people pleaser. I definitely am. And I love to be kind and nice and like, I'm really sensitive to people's feelings. But the more you trust in your gut and your intuition, and then it actually ends up playing out the way you thought it would, the more confidence you get in these decision makings. Like, no one cares about your business more than you do at the end of the day. And especially if you're working with agency partners, which I highly recommend, it's such a smart, lean way to grow a business and not bloat out your opex and G&A. But it's also, you have to keep in mind that a lot of these partners are working with 15, 20 other companies. There's no way that they are in the weeds every single day thinking about it 24/7 like you are. So it's your responsibility to be holding people to a high standard. And I think, Ben, you and I had talked about this before one time when we were out to coffee, and something that one of my mentors had told me was that A players don't bring up B players, B players bring down A players. So like, you are as weak as your weakest player. And so I just try to elevate everyone I work with to try to be the best they can be.

Can you talk to me more about holding high standards? Because I feel like that's the hardest thing in any of our roles.

Yeah.

It's so easy if you woke up tired, maybe you're like a little under the weather or something, and you're hopping on agency call and then internal call and then another internal call. And one of these internal calls, someone's like, they got the job done, but it's not at the standard. And it's so easy because you have to do this 10 times a day to just be like, you know what, just ship it, it's fine. Um, walk me through how, like, in those harder days where you're a little tired, that you're like, no, these are our standards, this needs to get better.

Yeah, so definitely. So, um, I am— so when things start to go south and go awry, I always, I'm a very solution-oriented person. So I always first focus on what is the solution to the problem we have before I start getting into like, how did we get here? So first I always am like, okay, what can we do to fix this immediately? And then it's always this postmortem after like the fire drill is over of how did this occur and how did it happen? And I really like for, I hold people's feet to the fire. It's like, we need to get to the answer. Like, I need to— and Ben, you're like smiling. And it— but it's so important because it's like, it's— you're gonna make mistakes. And like, you don't want people to be afraid of being like, you're gonna make a mistake. I make mistakes all the time, and none of this is life or death. But if you're not willing to acknowledge the mistake, how are you going to ever improve? If you just keep brushing it under the rug the mistakes are going to keep happening versus being like, okay, how did we get here? And then what can we do differently next time? And again, trying to come at it with compassion. And when things go well, I really do try to make an effort to celebrate my partners and give them that positive reinforcement. So it's not like I'm just tough the whole time. And honestly, like, the best partners rise to the occasion.

Agreed. I think a big part of like holding those high standards— I'm curious to get your take too, because you guys have been growing really quickly from a team headcount perspective. I feel like a big part of those high standards is mostly around the communication there.

Absolutely.

Of like, okay, we're both agreed on like, this is the outcome we want.

Yes.

There's like a couple different pathways to go there. It seems like right now we're doing it at 90%. Right. This is where we should be. And so I'm curious from your experience, is it just like that radical candor communication of like, this is where we need to be, this is where we are.

Absolutely.

I need you here.

How do we get there? And asking a lot of questions and shutting up and listening to what they're saying. Like, I think there's so many people that like to hear themselves talk in these meetings, and it is so helpful to just ask the question of like, well, why are you approaching it that way? And just be like, zip it and listen to what they say. And it can be so revealing.

I think something that I think about, and I go back and forth with my co-founders on this a lot, is around the philosophy of if trust is earned or given.

100%.

Um, I'm curious where you guys sit on that spectrum. I'm actually in the camp of when we bring in a new person, it's actually given. So I, I don't want to— I'm going to bring you in and give you all the trust that you need until you give me a reason not to, versus like you need to earn it. And I think it's on me to do the proper vetting and diligence before I actually bring you on. But if I try to get in your way and slow you down immediately, I don't think it gives you an opportunity to rise to the occasion. But I've talked to people who feel very differently about that, so I'm curious where you guys sit on that spectrum.

That's a really good question. I think for context, I run a B2B content agency. So I work with like a lot of conversational structure tools that I'm sure you use. And a lot of our job is like very nitpicky copy stuff. Like there's broader narrative questions of like, is this fully formed? And then there's like real-time small details. And I think similar to you, it's always trust is given from day one, but the minute anything is missed, then immediately it's okay. There's like accountability, there's deadlines, there's like peer reviews. We're pulling in an editor to micromanage. We're doing daily standups. Even if a tiny thing is missed. Sometimes if it's like literally a space missing, that's okay. And like, that's not a huge deal. But the minute anything— there's like anything somewhat major has been missed, usually we pull in editors immediately and are doing daily stands, daily check-ins, having them like send Loom sometimes of how they're thinking through this stuff. I think one lesson that I had really early on before I had a job, like right out of college, I was interviewing this early-stage startup. I think his name was Brian, and I sent him a deliverable as like a test project and he kind of similar to you, we can talk about your redlining and line by lining from a legal perspective. And he just line by line everything. And like I had, I was fresh out of college, I had some missing spaces, the narrative was messed up. There were like little typos here and there. And I was with him in Washington Square Park and he sat me down. He was like, look, I like you a lot. This isn't going to be a good fit, but let me just give you some advice. Like I started out at Bain for 4 years out of college before going into startups. And there is something that you learn there that is 100% perfectionism. If I send something in with the wrong period or the logo in a different spot, I will be put on a pip pretty quickly.

Yeah.

And he said, I know that seems harsh, but that is the way it goes.

Yes.

In startups it may seem a little more lax, but that is the standard. Kind of going back to our conversation around standards. And so I've tried to hold those standards similarly.

Yes.

And it's like little periods, little spaces, little things missing, maybe in the copy on your new website, something's placed wrong. It's like one time I think it's okay, but after that I think that trust is pulled back and like you need consistent review processes.

I agree. And I agree with both of you guys. Like initially when you bring someone on, as you mentioned, Ben, it's like your responsibility to be hiring ideally correctly and like making sure you're doing references and making sure it's the right person. And you don't want to like suffocate them when they get there to not let them do their job. But similar to what you said, like as, as soon as something starts going awry, I'll typically like get involved. Or if it is a partner where it's something that's so specific to our business. So for example, like our CFO, our interim CFO, I would never just give him the books and be like, run forward. It's like there's such tiny little specifics about our business, like our churn, how our subscription works, that would not— a general person coming in would not understand. So like, I feel like it's really important with those sort of people that you are super hands-on in the beginning to then let them kind of fly and have independence.

Question for you around going from law or specifically big corporate law and M&A into early-stage startups within kind of the e-commerce vertical.

Definitely.

I think every, every ecosystem has its own like verbiage and lingo. Like I started out in venture and I didn't even know what like a pre-seed was.

And it takes—

it takes like 6 months to learn the basics, but it takes years to like really learn the ins and outs and all these like random terms. And then I kind of pivoted over to like e-commerce infrastructure and started learning all the lingo there. So I'm curious, you're talking through churn and retention and everything. What was the learning curve like? Not just of like learning how to run an e-commerce business, but there's all these like terms and lingo and acronyms. Like, how did you learn those things?

Yeah, you want— it's so funny because I had that exact experience coming from big law into startups. I was like, what is ROAS? What's CAC? Like all of these things. But especially as a, as an early stage founder, you have to be hungry to learn. So like, I actually loved learning all this stuff and understanding the lingo. And understanding how it all works together. And like, even honestly, as a lawyer, you don't really even learn how to— how a balance sheet works. Like, that's not something— as soon as it gets to finance, you're like, send it to the bankers. And so to be able to get to learn all this stuff, I just kind of threw myself in headfirst. And it's just by— you learn by doing. You just learn by doing. And something I learned at Skadden, which is truly like been one of the biggest life lessons of mine in the professional world, is no one knows what they're actually doing. Like everyone's just figuring it out. Even at SCAD and with the most brilliant minds, no one knows what they're doing. And so realizing that gives you some freedom to under— like to play and to learn and to be curious. And so as I started on this journey, I just started to talk to a lot of other founders and then just like honestly Google stuff. And I was like, what does this mean? And then pretty soon you're like, okay, this all makes sense. Like, on Amazon right now, there's something called TACOS and ACOS and being able to be like, okay, so TACOS is blended ROAS and ACOS is just ad ROAS and being able to understand how all these things work together. But like, I love the new, like staying infinitely curious.

You made a point that I've talked about actually a lot online, and that is that everyone is just trying to figure it out. I think the biggest misconception I had when starting my company was if I was about to meet with someone who had a big title at a big company, it was intimidating because you just assumed they had it all figured out.

Yeah.

And so you almost in some instances are a little hesitant to speak your mind because you don't want to offend someone or you think you're going to piss someone off. And then you realize that everyone is trying to figure it out. And I think that is the number one thing that a new founder should know, is that you should go into any conversation with conviction and confidence because odds are they're trying to figure it out also, regardless of how long they've been in whatever role they're in.

100%. And also not being afraid to say that, to admit what you don't know, that like the, this pressure that people feel like they have to have the answers to everything. And it's like the smartest people in the room are the people who are willing to say, I actually don't know, can you explain that to me? Which I am more than happy to do. And something Ben that you just said that I always think about is like, it cracks me up, like especially like D2C Twitter and stuff of everyone like looking at each other's websites and like, We've gotten referenced a few times and it's like internally I know, oh well, that page actually doesn't perform well. And it's funny, it reminds me of that like Spider-Man GIF where like everyone's like, the Spider-Mans are all pointing at each other. It's exactly like that. Like no one actually knows what is performing well and everyone's just like guessing. It's— it cracks me up.

100%. In a lot of the content that we ship, we do like a lot of case studies. I'm sure we'll do one with you guys at some point. Yeah. And A lot of people look at our site and they're like, I love your case study page. I'm like, I fucking hate it. Yeah, exactly. So like, I have like 5 different mocks with our designer. We're just waiting to ship them.

Exactly.

And I'm like, well, yeah, it's really not working currently, so we're going to update it pretty soon.

Exactly.

So you were in big law for 4 years. How the hell did you get into selling electrical flossers?

That's the biggest transition I've ever seen in a career before.

Yeah, I like Yeah, I'm just gonna stop there.

Yeah, yeah, it was the pivot of a lifetime for sure. Um, so it happened, so I was doing, um, M&A at Skadden, um, super, super brutal work situation there but great experience.

What were the hours like?

Oh my gosh, I mean, so I would be, um, I mean, you build 100-hour weeks typically, so you're between 300 to 400-hour months billing, and there's a lot of things that you don't bill for. Um, we were in the LA office, so we were a satellite office, so we were a little bit more like budget conscious, I would say. So like, I did a lot of work that I would not bill for. So, um, the hours were brutal. Like, especially it would depend if you're like hot on a deal, you would be pulling like 5 to 6 all-nighters in like a span of 14 days. I slept under my desk.

So it's not just like 8 to 10? Oh no, no, no, no, it's like—

what? Oh, I slept under my desk numerous times. I literally had a blanket— I'm not kidding— in my office that I would use to muffle my crying. That is how it was. And I was like a star at the firm.

Is that just your first year, or is that—

no, it was all, all years it was like that. And because, I mean, they, as you were saying, they expect the best. There are no tight— everything is perfect because it's Skadden. Like, you are paying $2,000 an hour for this work, which maybe more up, like, the amount of the rates I was doing. And I was like, I had no clue what I'm doing out here. And I'm just like, but the hours were horrific. They were brutal. But I made some of my lifelong friends. My first 15 investors were my colleagues at the firm. My partners invested in me. I was a star at the firm. And so when I told them I was leaving, I was like, imagine what I could do with something I'm passionate about. And people were like, take my money. Even my partners, my partners invested. But anyway, so I was working on a deal. I had a dentist appointment come up in my calendar, and at the time I was an amazing twice-a-day toothbrusher, and admittedly I was a horrible flosser. So about a week leading up to the appointment—

horrible is better than not a flosser—

exactly, at all. And so I started vigorously flossing so when I got in the dentist chair, like trying to be such a perfectionist, and she asked, oh, have you been flossing? I was like, yes. And she's like, you're a liar, blood everywhere. I left with an astronomical dental bill, and I came home and I thought I hate flossing. I love using my electric toothbrush. I'm just going to go buy an electric flosser. So I went online to go buy one and nothing existed. That was the moment. And I was like, no way. There's not a vibrating floss pick. Like, this makes no sense. And then over the course of the following weeks, I started talking to my friends and colleagues at the firm, like going to people's offices and shutting the door. And I started asking them about their flossing habits because I assumed I was the only one not flossing. It's very, like, shameful to admit. And then I realized no one is flossing, and we're all not flossing for the same reasons. It takes too long, it's difficult to do, it's painful, um, and it's gross and also wasteful. And so that became really obvious to me that, uh, electric toothbrush of flossing would immediately solve all those pain points. And then yeah, I was kind of off to the races.

Why should people floss? Because I can guarantee at least 50% of people listening to this don't.

Oh, oh yeah. So only 30% of Americans allegedly floss every single day. Like, 32% never floss at all. I bet you it's a lot more. I mean, flossing has been associated with so many things. So when you don't floss, that leads to gum disease. Gum disease is associated with well-known short-term consequences such as yellow teeth, bad breath, high dental bills. But then it's also been associated with really serious long-term consequences such as Alzheimer's, dementia, heart disease, oral cancer, even acne. There are so many studies that have come out linking flossing and gum disease to, like, really serious mental health conditions. And so if you're someone who is really investing in the cold plunges and the working out and all these things, and you are not taking care of your teeth, you're kind of missing step zero.

That's a great pitch. I gotta get one now.

Yeah, yeah, I use it every day. I tell everyone this.

It's— I mean, it's a game changer. And like At the end of the day, they say you should only floss the teeth you want to keep. And like, we're so invested in our beauty, our skincare, and all these different things. And to not be taking care of like the most priceless real estate of your mouth is just— yeah, I'm super excited to get to be helping people. That's been the most rewarding aspect of building this company is getting to help people take care of themselves.

So I was going to ask, like, what is the— when we talk about passion for the thing you're building, I think it might be like narrow-minded to be like, oh, Sam's just passionate about like flossing her teeth, right?

Like, it's right.

That just seems like a crazy thing to say. But I'm curious, like, what— where does the excitement come from?

Yeah. So first of all, I've always known I was meant to be a founder. I've always known I was meant to be an entrepreneur. I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit. When I went to NYU Law, got my MBA, and now I've—

weren't you slinging flowers at one point?

I was slinging flower crowns at one point. That was in my sorority dorm room.

Oh, it was undergrad.

It was undergrad I was doing that. Then at NYU Law, I created my entire own NYU Law swag line that I would sell. Like, I always had this entrepreneurial spirit, but getting to build something that you are helping people take care of themselves, and particularly my passion around the accessibility community, that is a huge community we serve, as well as 30% of our customers are over the age of 60 years old. I have a much, much older dad. My dad turns 84 this year. And so being able to help the more senior audience has been something that has been so rewarding and fulfilling for me because they are a part of our society that's often overlooked. And also, I mean, they're like some of the biggest spenders as well. So like they're a very exciting, profitable community, but they're not a, sexy community to go after and getting to help people find independence and take care of themselves has just been— I mean, it's just such an honor. It's incredible to get to do. It makes it all like the struggles worth it.

Is this what you thought your target customer was going to be when you started the company?

Absolutely not. I mean, I think you can tell with the branding if you go to our website, we lean— I like to say Zillennial. So somewhere between the Gen Z, Millennial, which I like to consider myself as a Zillennial.

You should trademark that word. I've never heard that.

Zillennial. Yeah, Zillennial.

And is that a word or you just made that up?

No, I've heard that before.

So actually, when you're like a cusper of it and like, I think I would be that.

Yeah, we're both—

I'm 96.

Yeah, I think I am a Zillennial.

You're a Zillennial then. Yeah, exactly. And so you're kind of right on the cusp. That was our initial thought. So the initial target demos we were going after, one was the Tech Splore, a younger male millennial who's into tech gadgets, the latest innovations. The next one is our Plugged In Professionals, a bit older skewing millennial female who's investing in the Pelotons, the Whoops, who wanna just have a really efficient self-care routine. And then we had like kind of like the trendsetter, I forget what we ended up calling them. And they were kind of like this like younger millennial, also female, who's just kind of into like the trendy, cool beauty products. That's who we thought. And what's so exciting about building a company is just following the data, just listening to the data and letting your ego go on what you thought it was going to be and just looking at who's being attracted to your company. So on Indiegogo, I had 3 different customers reach out to me who were like, I'm blind and I can't place an order on Indiegogo. And I was like, huh? After the second one, I was like, I'm going to get on a call with this customer and ask questions. And when I got on the call, I then learned that if you have a visual impairment such as being blind, you therefore lack fine motor mobile dexterity, which makes traditional flossing physically impossible to do. So I then realized, oh my gosh, we potentially have a massive accessibility community, whether you have arthritis, cerebral palsy, MS, stroke victims, anyone like that. And they just started to come to us. And then as we started selling the product, we realized, we have a much older demo and again, 30% over the age of 60 years old. So right now we're talking with the AARP. We're trying to figure out ways that we could be showing up where they are. And we're going to actually end up going through a little bit of a brand refresh at the end of this year to kind of alter the brand a little bit and redevelop it. So that is speaking to that consumer because I love flats. We're going to keep the color, keep the whole thing, but like freshening up the, like, the dialect we're using to resonate. Because we say like DTF, down to floss. Let me tell you, that does not resonate with a boomer. They are like, inappropriate. They don't like it. But you still want to be like edgy and pushing the boundary, but you also want to be meeting that consumer where they are.

But I think it goes back to the point you made of you have to let the data tell you what to do, because your brand is very flashy. It gives very Gen Z vibes to me, like this you know, the young hip popular girl in class is telling everyone about her new— yes, like, accessory that she bought. It doesn't speak to me like the 70-year-old dude down the road is like—

no. And then that also comes not even just— and I think that there's ways you can have your brand flex. Like, I know as a product founder you never want to be like, oh, I have a product that's for everyone. We actually have a product that is for everyone. Everyone should be brushing their teeth, everyone should be flossing. So it's trying to find ways that the brand can reflex for these different demographics. But one of the things that we're going to be focused on is in terms of our content creation, having more age diversity, because all of our content is younger people, millennials, Gen Zers. We need to show more age diversity.

Come on, I feel like— aren't there some like massive like grandma creators on TikTok?

And I—

there's one in my mind and I don't create like older women. Yeah, you probably would know. There's one that I don't know the name. I don't even know like what she was posting about I just remember a lady who must have been over 75, dude. She was getting like millions and millions of likes on every TikTok.

Was it like—

she was just being goofy on camera, but like no one in that age demographic is on TikTok being goofy.

I had no— I know there's a grandma's cooking, like Italian grandma's cooking. I know that's a niche.

There's that. There's a lot of them that— there's this one woman right now who's like, talks about the drama of like the retirement home she's in. And like, yeah, it's just showing up with those content creators and how fun— that would be so epic.

You got to do like a full collection or collab, which is like a bunch of old people.

100%. Like, I mean, yeah, that's like the goal. And so I'm so excited to start to like diversify our creators we work with. And again, like, we're not going after the Alex Earls, we're not going after like the— this older demo. It's like such an exciting untapped opportunity, and I, I can't wait. And it again is something so near and dear to my heart because of my own family dynamic that like I can't wait to start kind of venturing into that direction.

How does that affect the way you think about customer acquisition in terms of channels? Because I can't imagine like hammering Facebook at—

maybe I'm wrong, but they're on Facebook. That is actually where these boomers are. They're the— I mean, do you guys use Facebook?

No, no. My mom for sure crushes Facebook.

They crush Facebook. And it's like, I mean, it's so funny. I look at like these like Meta reports and they're like, our most active users are The millennial— I'm like, there's no— I don't know any millennials or Gen Zers that are using Facebook aside from maybe looking at birthdays, maybe. I mean, we're on Instagram and TikTok, and so, um, our older demo comes through Facebook. That is where they are. We've started to venture into a little bit of YouTube because— and I'm learning from my dad.

There's a lot of— there's a lot of people on YouTube.

That's where they go.

My girlfriend's grandfather watches YouTube all day. He watches— he watches this channel. It's like a guy who builds these like forts and whatnot in the woods. Yeah, and he crushes YouTube. And I was like, that's so interesting.

And it's— and so what we're doing right now in terms of channel acquisition is we're, we're honestly doing an entire like analysis against data collection. I have this amazing researcher I've been working with. He does all of our focus groups for product. He analyzes all of our customer surveys. This man is just incredible. He's like my secret weapon. I found him on Upwork. He actually found me on Upwork. Upwork. I am an Upwork stan. I have found some awesome people on Upwork. Of course you get some like shysters, but like, I don't know, I've gotten lucky. I posted a job description and he found me and I was his first client. He left Plackers, which is like a floss pick company, and I was his first independent client to do customer research. And so we now know these target demographics He's going to go and do tons of research about where are they buying, where are they getting their information from, who influences them. And that's going to really help us set our strategy. Like, you know, I like QVC. It's not a sexy channel. We will crush on QVC.

100% crush.

And I'm like, get me in front of these buyers. Like, even with Shark Tank, that is an older demographic. This product, it just makes so much sense because they have arthritis, they lack fine motor dexterity, or they have caretakers. And Flouse is a great device for caretakers. My boyfriend's dad has ALS and his caretaker uses it and she is like, this thing is a godsend because otherwise she was shoving her fingers into his mouth and now she doesn't have to do that. And so yeah, I'm excited to break into some really like maybe even direct mail. Like, I'm, I'm like, ready? I want to experiment and see what works. That's what I always do. I do a small budget, I experiment, and then we go all in if it's efficient.

I want to talk about early days. Yeah, because I know you invested like $80K plus of your own personal capital. So on the topic of small bets, yeah, any time I know we're always like cooking on random ideas that we like, oh, we should start this, we start this. And any time I spend more than like $5,000, I'm like, oh my God, I'm going bankrupt. Yeah, it's not going to happen. And so I saw that metric and I was like, that, that would scare me.

Oh, my bank account went to zero.

Talk us through where your mind was at then.

Yeah, um, yeah, it was extremely scary. So I was someone that was always really diligent. I had my— I didn't need to have a job when I was in high school, but I wanted to have a job. I worked at Rip Curl Surf. I grew up in a surf town, San Clemente, in California, and I just always valued being independent. So I always had a savings. And being at Skadden, like I had a great cushion and it was crazy because at the time that people were putting down, down payments on a home, I was taking all that money and funneling it into this company, this baby idea that was just nothing at the time. It was so, so scary and so terrifying. But at the time I had brought on a high performance coach, an executive coach who really helped me work through this like fear cycle that we can get into. Your mind wants to keep you in your comfort zone. So as soon as you start going to the outer rims of that, leaving your high-paying job, not having a salary, your mind just starts sending you all of these signals being like basically trying to tell you to stop. And it's just fear-based, but it's not actual like truth or reality. And what she helped me process was like, God forbid this all fails, goes to shit, I'm gonna be fine. This is just money. I can go get another job. Like, I felt like no matter what, it was really scary to see that go to nothing, but like, I would never regret an investment in myself. Like, would I rather have that $80K, $100K in my bank account and wonder what if while I'm sitting at this job I'm miserable at? Or would I rather like given it a huge swing and had a huge miss and known like, at least I tried. And this is the time too. At the time I was 28 when I went, or 29 when I went full-time for Flouse. Like, this is the time. I don't have kids. I wasn't— I'm not married. Like, this is the time where I feel like I could be a little like more risk forward.

What was the one moment in this journey thus far where you're like, oh my God, did I make the wrong decision?

So every few days.

Yeah.

So funny. Like 20 minutes ago.

Yeah. Yeah, I just had my scheduled weekly crying session. You know, honestly, that was one of them. Having my bank account actually go to zero, that was really— and I have like a screenshot on my phone because I was like, this is a pivotal moment. That was really, really scary. And then there was another time as a consumer electronic hardware good, it's a capital-intensive business. Your money gets locked up in inventory. There was a moment where our cash balance, we were running out of runway and I felt I was probably crying multiple times a week. And I was so scared because I at that point had taken on $2 million of family and friend money. So I raised a little over $4 million to— half of it was all family and friends. And that responsibility I feel as a fiduciary to get a return for my friends and family. Like, having understanding I was running out of runway— this was a while ago— was just, yeah, it was really, really scary. But then to have that moment, I had an investor double down and take me out of that, give me that runway I needed. I was just like, yeah, it was just— I have photos of myself like this, happy tears, where I was like, holy shit, like this journey, the lows are low, like, and the highs are high, but like, I don't know about you guys, but the highs don't feel anywhere near as high as— and as the lows feel low. Yeah, like the lows feel real low.

Yeah, because I think— I don't even— yeah, I'm like sitting here just processing in real time you saying that, and I think it's so true because when you have a high, I think you, you get excited about like the next one and knowing it means something, there's something more to come.

Yes.

Like, but when you have a low You can have the thought of like, oh my God, is this the end?

Is this it? Is this it?

Like, I don't know if it can get any lower. It's kind of like the thought, you know, the highs.

Like, for example, with Shark Tank, like, my, my boyfriend just the other day, he's like, are you excited? Because we're re-airing tonight. He's like, are you excited? And it's interesting, and this is something, and I think this is from Skadden, it's like you're always on to your next win. I, I need to be better as a founder about celebrating my wins, and that's something I try to have. I, I've told my team I'm not great at. And so I try to like really encourage them to celebrate because I'm just kind of like, I look at these accomplishments and I don't look at them as like, oh my God, it's so crazy this happened. I look at these and I'm like, of course this happened. I busted my ass to get here. I know all of the little tiny steps and all the tiny little things it took me to get there. So when these things happen, I'm like, well yeah, this is a result of all that hard work. So it's like, yeah, I need to— I don't really feel the highs as much as the lows.

You were the wrong people to ask for advice.

We're not—

for what it's worth, we can't help Yeah, no, I mean, it's so like—

but it's important because, I mean, I'm not— at Skadden, I've gone through burnout cycles. At Flouse, I've gone through burnout cycles. And it's so important if you are not celebrating those wins and acknowledging the good things that are happening, it's so easy to get burnt out because this journey is long. I've been doing Flouse for 5 years, and I probably have another 5 years at least.

It's been 5 years already?

I started— I came up with this idea in 2019.

Wow.

I came up with the idea, and it took us We launched on Indiegogo in 2021. We were in beta up until September of 2023. Consumer electronic hardware takes a really long time and the iteration process.

So yeah, I'm curious when you have— here's about your communication when you have those lows. This is something I've been working on myself. A lot of time when something goes wrong in the business, like not just a little thing, like something is actually wrong. I don't want to tell anyone about it until I've at least gotten on the path to fixed it, if not fixed it already.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'll sit down with Karina, my girlfriend, and I'll tell her, oh, like last week this big thing happened, but it's good now. She's like, you got to tell me these things. And I'm like, I think that's— I don't know if that's like an entrepreneurial trait that like you don't want to share those things until you've dealt with it. But then the wins I'm happy to share with anyone, right? Talk to my friends or family about it. Have you had that experience?

Well, I think it's really important when you're dealing with lows, especially when you're a leader, a CEO of a company, it's It's so important not to let that trickle down. So there's a saying, it says, the fish rots from the head first. And so like, it's so important. I personally believe as a leader to, of course, when things are going sideways, you have to alert your team. Like, hey, we have a fire drill, which literally happens on a weekly basis.

Daily basis, come on.

But aside from that, when things are really going like not well, and I try to shield my team from it. but I have my group of trusted advisors and mentors. Like, I mean, even Ben, when we've gone out to grab coffees, like, I, I truly feel like you— it's like almost going to therapy. If you're not honest with your therapist about what's going on, how can they help you?

They can't.

They can't. And if you're not honest with your investors and your advisors and mentors about what's going wrong, you can't get help. So I probably err on the side of being overly transparent. Like, I'm like I'll text Dr. Jason, one of my— the founder of Therabody, one of my most trusted advisors, and even Doug Bouton of Halo Top, being like, I feel like I'm scared I'm going to fail. Like, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like all these things are going wrong. And it's in those moments that they text me back and they're like, guess what? I still deal with that. Like, I— and it just helps normalize everything that they're like, it's normal you feel this way. And unless I was that transparent, like, I just don't think I'd be able to process all of this.

So you're hyper transparent, but to specific people, to specific people can actually help you.

That's the biggest asterisk. Asterisk, you have to be very careful about who you say what to.

And you notice, oh my gosh, 100%, because everyone talks. It's a— especially e-commerce, I will say it's a little bit of like a gossipy group.

Um, a little bit.

I mean, you know, which Fine, which is fine. Is it? I don't know, I don't know. But personally, I have my group of trusted people. And what I've done is, so everyone wants to give you advice. Everyone has a effing opinion on everything. Like when they say opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one. And so what you do though is get people's advice and then I will go out and execute on some of it and see who had the valid advice. And then I go back to that person. And then after a few repetitions, you realize, this person knows what they're talking about. They give me really sage advice. They are confidants. And then I— that's who I go to. Like, I'm— my inner circle is really tight.

Yeah. One time we lost like a big client and like they turned and then someone else turned. It ended up being the wrong fit, like in postmortem. But at the time I like told someone on my team and then I happened— my mom happened to call me and I told her and they both freaked out, which made me freak out more. And I was like, I'm not telling anyone.

No, no. Especially parents. Like, My mom, she's— she is like my biggest advocate. She wants— she's a marketing background, so she just wants to see me win. But there's like, unless— and this even goes with investors— it's so important to talk to people who have been operators before because it is such a different experience.

Your specific business, of your specific—

exactly. Like, especially with some of these investors, like, in these like thought leaders, sometimes I roll my eyes because I'm like, It's like being a soccer coach without ever playing a day in soccer of your life. Like, it's just like, I'm like, who are like giving advice to a brain surgeon without ever going to medical school? You know, it's just kind of like you have to find those operators who have exactly done what you've done. Which for Dr. Jason, when I was starting out, I was like, what are some incredible consumer electronic hardware brands? There's not that many. And I was like, Theragun at the time. I was like, this is an iconic amazing product.

I have my Theragun.

Oh my God, it's— it— his, his brand, his product, and now Therabody, the way he's now expanded into the different parts of your body, even beauty, is so smart. He is just— he's a genius, and I respect him so much. But him— took 30 cold DMs to get to that.

I was just gonna ask you, can you walk me through how you went about this process of First identifying the, like, wish list of people and then how you actually got them in your corner.

Yeah. So, I mean, so looking at your vertical. So for us, electric flossers, obviously there was none at the time. So I then started to look at like, okay, who could I talk to that's like doing electric toothbrushes, who's whatever. Now, especially, you know, one that I've been chatting to more recently is like Simon at Quip. He is like, I mean, literally talk about someone who has walked this path before me.

To a T. I don't think there's anyone else in the world.

There is no one who could be more valuable for me. And obviously, you know, he's off doing his own things and like we keep it pretty like high level, but it's— I go and look at like, okay, for me, consumer electronic hardware at the time, Theragun was a really a hot, hot commodity at that. And again, this was 5 years ago. So I then identified who these people were. And also I am a LinkedIn stan. It's like I am probably the most active on LinkedIn. Going to looking up, I would look up like founder, you type people, and then I go to past and current companies and I would then filter through and get to see. And then who did I have a connection with? Who went to USC? The Trojan network is so, so strong. So like one of them was I wanted someone who worked at Oral-B before. So I actually found someone and also Dollar Shave Club and his name is Dennis Bernstein. I, this man has been with me since I just had Flouse as a drawing on a photo. He worked at Oral-B doing brand innovation for 5 years and then led the Oral Carolina Dollar Shave Club.

Wow.

You could not have someone who was more like in tune and knowledgeable. And then I identify them and cold DM, LinkedIn. That's what I do. And I honestly, it takes— you have to be persistent. Dr. Jason, it was about somewhere between 20 to 30 emails. Doug Bouton was immediate response.

How are you opening up email number 20? Like, what's the first line in that email?

I, I don't know.

Hey Jason, just in case it's got lost in your mail, bumping it for the 21st time.

Here's a photo of my dog and $100 gift card to Amazon. I can't. No, but it was just like the persistence. And that's one of the things he told me. He was like, your persistence just stood out to me.

What was the— do you remember what the message was that he finally responded to?

I, I don't remember, but I think it just was honestly like, it probably sounded pretty desperate. Like I was just like, I am a first-time founder. You are like an inspiration to me. Like I would just love to just chat with you for 30 minutes. And then it took forever to nail him down on a call. But then after that, I remember he, he walked out of that call and I feel this way now. And he was like, you're the real deal. He's like, you are the real deal. And I think even us as operators, I feel like I can tell now instantly when I meet someone, I'm like, you are the real deal.

I think on one hand of that, there's the like real-time capacity of just like, you can tell within a minute if someone's like really on the ball and like really sharp. And then there's the like deeper ambition, which I think takes a little while to like really see.

100%.

Took us a few weeks of hanging out and I was like, oh fuck. Like you actually want to build a lot of like huge things versus just in real time you can tell if someone's smart.

Right. Well, I think trust, what you were saying earlier, I think it's like earned over time for me, like that sort of stuff.

Walk me through where that original ambition comes from. Like, is there a chip on your shoulder from childhood?

College? No, I just— you know what's so funny? Um, I was actually just recently, like, we were clearing out my family's, like, storage facility in, um, Laguna Niguel, my sister and I. And, um, in my elementary school, so like, you know, when I was like, you know, 9, 8, 10, whatever years old, every year they would give you a, like, trait of the year of what described you. And mine, multiple years, different teachers, was resilience and persistence. That was mine. And ambition, always. It's something that, like, yeah, I've just always been an ambitious person. I've always wanted to be the best. My sister, she's only 13 months younger than me. My sister is like a full-on savant. Like, she not only works hard, it comes naturally to her. She went to Yale. She's an orthopedic surgeon. My sister is Next, next level. I was in all advanced classes. She was in advanced, advanced classes. Different level. For me, I worked my ass off. Like, nothing really came easy to me, and that was instilled from my mom. My mom was from an immigrant family who really emphasized the power of education. And so like, when I was in elementary school, grades mattered. Like, I wouldn't be able to do sleepovers if I didn't get perfect grades, which obviously put a lot of pressure on myself, but then it has really formed me and shaped me into who I am, where it's like, not only do I expect excellence of my partners, I expect excellence of myself. And so like, yeah, and I, and I also think my mom really encouraged my sister and I to realize that we're capable of doing anything. Like, once you realize that all of this is made up, like, you create your own destiny. And once you start operating in that energy level, in that realm, and things start to happen, you're really like, you are like the creator of your own destiny and you can do anything. And it's just, yeah, I feel like with Flouse, truly, this is one of my life purposes. I am meant to be doing this. I'm— this is a product that's meant to exist in the world and I'm just the vessel. And it just like, I feel inspired daily that I'm like, I have so much gratitude. Like it found me and I'm like, let's go.

I want to shift gears for a second and talk about your journey with Shark Tank.

Yeah.

Because I think first and foremost, a lot of people from the outside looking in, I think, have the wrong perception of what the reality is to go through that process.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was interesting. So, and you're going to love this because it goes to another cold outreach that worked. So Shark Tank actually headhunted us from Indiegogo, which totally makes sense, right? Because they're trying to look for new, cool, innovative companies. They're just kind of searching on Kickstarter and Indiegogo, found us in 2021. We did. We only had a black box working prototype. We were not ready. And so much of your journey is about the timing of things and being able to say no and not right now. And so I knew we weren't ready. And then in 2022, we participated and won the South by Southwest speed pitch competition. And I went to this TikTok afterparty and we were there and Mark Cuban was there and I, I was like, I'm going to go talk to him.

And so that's my twin.

Yeah. Yeah. Wait, really? Same birthday?

No, everyone thinks we look the same. I've got Mark Cuban more than any other person on the planet.

I guess I could— I guess I need to see like—

I've got Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban, and Sylvester Stallone, but Mark Cuban by a mile is the one.

Really?

Yeah, I guess.

I mean, that's a good one.

And so I see him in the corner, he is swarmed with people around him. I mean, and so I'm like, I'm gonna go talk to him. So I marched right over there and I can't get to him. But there's this gentleman standing next to him and I'm like, hi, like I'm trying to get to Mark, do you know if I can get to him? And he's like, oh, my name is blank, let's call him Tyler for right now. Tyler, I'm actually his like manager. But Tyler was blacked out. Like Tyler was like, no one was home. Which I don't blame him, but I was like, oh my God, like I can't, he was just not helpful, but I was like, oh, okay, whatever. This sucks. So I left. And then, um, the next morning, one of the VCs I was with who helped me get into the TikTok party, he actually sent me Mark Cuban's email and he was like, hey, why don't you just try shooting him an email? So I sent Mark Cuban an email and in the subject line it said, Tyler said you needed to floss more. And it then gave a little thing about Flouse.

Wow.

What a hook. Wow. What a hook. And Mark responded in 20 minutes. It was like 25 minutes and he was like, we need to get you on Shark Tank. He's like, this would be an amazing Shark Tank product. Looped in the executive producer and then I was back into the process and Mark was not involved from that point. Like when I walked onto the stage, she didn't even know who, and I can go into it's the secondhand story of what happened with Mark after filming Shark Tank, which is another amazing story about him. But anyways, that, and so then I got put back into the process. This is, again, this was about April, May 2022. The process, the vetting process. You have to film a bunch of videos of yourself, give the pitch. They do so much diligence on your business because they want to make sure that when you go out there that everything you're saying is truthful and valid. So we went through a lot of it, but honestly, they really wanted Flouse. They really wanted Flouse and they really wanted me on it. So they were like a little more lax and flexible. Like, I'm running a business, so like I would miss deadlines, and they were like, it's fine, don't worry about A and B, just get me C, that's all we need. And going through the process, like, none of it is scripted. None of it's scripted, which I think a lot of people think it is. The only part that's somewhat scripted is the opening minute and 30-second pitch, because it's like very salesy, so they want to make it Shark Tank-y. That's the only thing. You are out there for an hour. You go through all of your financings. You go— it's like a full—

that was the part that most people don't know is when you watch it on TV, like, what's— how long does it take? 10 minutes.

10 minutes max.

It's an hour.

And you go through everything.

It's all being filmed.

It's all being filmed, and there's one take. There's one take, so you don't get a do-over. And they're all just firing off questions. So like, it was interesting because obviously as a founder, you know, you're going out there and you're putting on a bit of a performance, but you're also performing in the middle of the Sharks' performance, which was bizarre to be a part of because they're all trying to get sound bites in. So unlike a real pitch, there's like, they try to get you in these gotcha moments, which like would never happen. And the one they didn't end up, you know, airing it, but one of them they tried was with respect to our patents. So they tried, they picked something legal, and I was like, they must have not, they must have not read your background. Yeah, no, I was like, let's go. Like, I was like, you know, and so they didn't air that one.

No, I mean, they didn't air it probably because she roasted them and they're like, we don't want this.

And then also, like, there's some other stuff. Like, I definitely got into a little bit of a logical battle with Kevin O'Leary over his desire to have royalties in the company. I was like, you want to be a stakeholder but then also want to take away from our profitability? You know, that's like inverse to each other. And he was like, good point. And that didn't make it either. But yeah, yeah, like, I was— yeah, I mean, and he even was like, well, why would people want to buy this when there's $5 floss at the store. And I'm like, well, there's $5 toothbrushes and Philips Sonicare is a multi-billion dollar— roasted. No, and he was literally like, good point. And I'm like, yeah, like, you know. And so there's so much that doesn't make it, but that's what made me kind of terrified because you don't see the edit when it comes out. Like, you are watching it for the first time with everyone else. And I knew I had gone into these logical debates with some of the sharks that I was like, oh my God, what if they take these out of context Um, but I remember finishing and I had the bidding war happening, and I had prepped so hard for the opening pitch in the Q&A that as soon as the bidding war started, to be honest, you can kind of see in my face, it's like deer in the headlights. I was just like, I need to get out of here. I have 3 sharks, they're fighting over the deal. I'm like, best case scenario, I wanted to do some ping-ponging, but after a while I was like, I knew I wanted Candace. I either really wanted Candace or Mark. And so I knew I wanted Candace. I had her. And I was like, you want this? This is best case scenario. I'm done. Took her deal and walked out. And you literally— it feels like you were in a casino. You walk out and you're like, how long was I in there for?

Yeah.

Did anything I just say make sense? And it's great because they have people that talk to you after because most people feel this way. And I remember the person I talked to, the executive producer, was like, you were one of the best pitches I've ever seen in my 15 years. And he also came up to me and he's like, I have never bought a product off of an application video. And he's like, and I'm a flouser. He's like, you're the first one ever. And then after, he was like, this is one of the best pitches. And he's like, you wouldn't have gotten multiple offers if you— what you were saying didn't make sense. So I just like held on to that. And yeah, anyways, it was just like a dream come true.

What was the other Marc story that you—

yeah, so after I was done filming, I was on set And this was while all the like strikes were happening too. So it was kind of like a spooky time to be on the set and everything. Like nothing was really going on. And he actually stepped out and, um, to go to the restroom and he ended up, we ended up running into each other out on the lot. And he came by and told me like, you did an amazing job, like great job. And I told him, I was like, you know, you probably don't remember this, but you actually encouraged me to apply for Shark Tank. And I, and I reminded him about the email and He walked away and he was like, you know what, that's awesome, good for you, I love to see it. 20 minutes later, he goes back on this thread from over a year prior, emails me from that thread saying, Tyler said you need to floss more, and was like, congratulations, you did it, you absolutely knocked it out of the park. And I was just like, what a baller, what a baller. Like, I just have so— Mark Cuban is just an amazing person. And the fact he is so responsive, it is him on those emails. It just—

yeah, he's, he's cemented himself as the guy who responds to every cold email. It's like a very well-known thing. I've talked to a bunch of people who've done it. I've never cold emailed him. I've always joked that if I ever did, I'd probably put a picture of us next to each other and be like, you're my long-lost twin.

Exactly.

But it's really cool to see someone that successful who can also stay humble enough to like cement his reputation amongst the, the up-and-coming, like, entrepreneurs of the next generation.

Absolutely. I mean, he, he was amazing. I mean, I— all of them were so nice and great, and it was just like, you grow up watching this show, and granted, like, Shark Tank's been around for 15 years, so it's kind of not in its heyday anymore, which is why the audience that came through Shark Tank for us was like— we have, um, a huge— most of our target consumers are coastal cities, so New York City, LA, San Francisco, Texas, and Florida. But just getting to walk out and having those two doors open, and I remember just sitting there being like, this is happening, I am here. I'm looking over at my producers and they're like, good luck. They were so excited. And then you walk out there, there's no music that plays also. So like you just walk out there in silence. It's very, it's very different than what you see on TV. But then to be done and I was just like, this is going to be a life— like a core memory. And I think the hardest part is after you film, you're not guaranteed to air, so you're just sitting there waiting. Yeah, there's tons of people that film.

The only other— the only other thing I heard that you can either confirm or deny is that majority of deals that happen on the show don't actually go through after the fact. Yeah, is that true?

That's true. Yeah, um, my deal happened. Yeah, so Candace is an investor in the company, so and so excited, and she's just like, I'm just thrilled to have her and her husband. Like, her and her husband and Charles, they are like a dynamic duo. She's forward-facing, but he is like the behind the scenes, runs the show. So them together, um, but I think it's like 80% of the deals fall through. They don't actually end up happening.

That's because of the diligence, right?

It's the diligence. So like, so either it's the founders or the Sharks, like they don't actually end up syncing up, or like they try to change the deal terms and things like that. And but it's really important for you, if you actually get a deal and take an investment from the Shark, you're therefore allowed to use the As Seen on Shark Tank logo. Unlike other publications to not be named, they do not charge you an arm and a leg. They don't charge you at all to use it. Disney's licensing fees are $20. $20 to use their stuff, which is amazing. Um, Disney, who owns ABC. Anyways. And then also too, if you get a deal that therefore qualifies you to do like the company update, you know, like mid-episode, it's like, where are they at now? And I really hope in a couple of years we'll get to do that.

I'm curious. I want to talk about the realities of like running a fast-growing company day to day versus you're coming on the pod, you're talking to Mark Cuban, you're going to TikTok parties, you're on Shark Tank. What? Obviously there are highlights like that, but I'm sure 99% of the time. Oh my God, you're on your laptop.

Oh my God, it's me on my laptop. I mean, I'm in the weeds. And this is something I hate to keep referencing off conversations between Ben and I, but like we've talked about, I— it's me and one other girl who's running the show. We are at 600%. We're at 600% growth this year. It's me and one other girl.

Every one of my conversations, there's like, so are you going to like hire someone?

Yeah. Like, and even my investors are like, it is time. Like, I am doing the admin work I'm doing. And so I am sitting there at my laptop and That's, and it's honestly, it's been tough because I don't get to sit up at the 30,000-foot view as I probably should be because my strength is I'm a visionary. My vision for this company, my strategy, I love the strategy aspect, but instead I'm in the weeds deciding what color should our backdrop be for our dental conference? Like what should the font size be of blah, blah, blah. And so every single day it's just grinding it out and trying to think just— I'm just trying to one step forward each day, one step forward. That's it. I don't need to tackle my entire to-do list. I try to prioritize based on truly like imagining you're in a hospital. Who's bleeding out on the floor? That's who I'm focused on. I try to like get that person taken care of and then I'm thinking the next day, okay, what's my next thing I'm tackling?

It's an important contrast. I feel like we're both pretty— or I guess all three of us are pretty active on LinkedIn. And like a couple weeks ago I posted like we hit like a big quarterly milestone. And it's so funny because I know the night before it was like 1 AM. I'd been traveling all day on a plane. I'd like a hoodie up. It's really dark. My eyes are red and I'm just like typing this thing for the next morning. But from, you know, the perception of people seeing it the next day, everyone's like, oh my God, that's amazing. Sure, you have a cool office in New York.

And I'm like, nope, it's so glamorized. This whole journey is glamorized. And it's— if, if it was so easy, everyone would be doing it, which it feels like everyone's trying to do it, but like to be succeeding in doing this, it requires so much resilience, so much perseverance, and that attention to detail. It's like the grind every single day.

The reason it's glamorized though is because the, the content that people consume is like you smiling on a podcast, like talking about your journey, right? And not like— it's harder to— like when you sit here and say, I worked 100 hours and slept under my desk with a blanket, to like hear you say that, I'm like, wow, that's crazy. But if you called me at like 4 AM on a Tuesday, I was like, Ben, come to the office and like look, right? Like my reaction would be way different. And so I think the problem— not even a problem, but something— one of the challenges is when you try to post your journey online, no one's— very few people are like capturing the chaotic, stressful moments and like prioritizing posting about those. It's just not how the human mind works. And so because of that, I think a lot of people will consume the journey of founders and they will never be able to actually understand the low parts of it until they try it themselves, because it's hard to like explain that in a way that's appropriate to share online for other people to see.

Yeah, and I think it's scary. Like I even like I have moments like I'm not— I guess I'm not as active. I am active on LinkedIn, but not as active as I probably should be. But like I really— when I have like a thought that I'm like, I need to share this, I just go and post it. I'm not like, someone that like pre-plans my stuff. But like, I even sometimes— I, I just did a TikTok where we were like, what's in my bag? I was pulling out the stuff, and one of the things in my bag is my anti-anxiety medication. And we posted it, and I honestly, I took it down because I then got self-conscious. Like, are people gonna judge me that I have anxiety, that I have to take medication for this? And like, but that's also the human element. So that's something I'm honestly trying to work on, is like lifting the veil of like, this is really, really hard and there's so many lows and trying to normalize that. But it's scary. And then you get worried like, what are other people going to think? The fundraising environment's really, really tough, so you don't want to give off the wrong impression. And some people, I think, on LinkedIn are a little bit too transparent where I read their posts. I'm like, they sound unhinged.

Like, yeah, I would say I'm probably closer to that end of the spectrum than the other.

No, no.

Not all the way. I'm not all the way. I'm probably like a 6.5 out of 10.

You're getting close, brother.

I'm getting there.

I'm, um, so this is actually—

I think more time goes on, I like care less and less in terms of like what people's perception is going to be of like how I post.

But I think that's something like we're all kind of scared of. And as we've talked about, like, people talk. And like, it's something that I want to share more, but like, I try to mentor a lot of people, and I'm very transparent with them of being like— people are like, how are you? And I'm like, not well, not well, not well.

I'm gonna smile when I say it too.

I mean, I got my call, my service providers like Doris Dev literally last week. They're like, how are you? And I'm like, I am not okay. And they're like, living the dream. Yeah, like, great.

So let's jump into it anyways.

Yeah, I totally agree. It's like tough. But I do think you're really good at being very like transparent and you post like a lot. But I think it's different as— and this is something else I think too. I think it is so valuable to be posting on LinkedIn and Twitter as a B2B Founder. It's so good. You're generating like obviously awareness, you're bringing in sales. My hot take, and I literally have this as a draft, so maybe I need to get this up before this pod goes live. My hot take is there are exceptions to this rule, but for direct-to-consumer founders, I believe there's a direct inverse correlation between how often that founder is posting and how well their business is doing.

Sam, I have a harsh truth for you. Yeah, it's not a hot take even slightly.

Yeah.

Everyone knows this.

I mean, it's some people I'm like, I know how hard I fucking work and I'm like, I don't have time to be posting these novellas of this stuff.

There's no way.

So I'm going to say two things. I'm going to say the first one is it's an illusion.

Yeah.

In terms of how much time you probably think I spend on LinkedIn every day versus how much time I'm actually spending.

But again, you're B2B. It's not—

No, no, no. But, but just the concept of making content on social.

Yeah.

Can be— there is a— there is something to be said about building an engine and a process around it.

Totally.

The second thing I'm going to say to you is I think you should become a Facebook influencer.

Wait, oh wait, oh, because of our, uh, your audience.

Like, I don't know, maybe make a Facebook—

I don't know how the Facebook—

I don't know, I don't know it. I'm not saying I'm qualified to tell you how to do it, I'm just saying I think you should be doing it.

Rana Avi, they have a huge Facebook.

You should make like a Facebook group or something. I don't know, you should be going to all these like elderly wellness hangouts or whatever they look like.

100%. No, there is like— there's a really chic retirement facility right next to my apartment in Battery Park New York City, and I'm like, I gotta do a lunch and learn in here. Like, I need to be in here. And so I've been going to— we've been doing the dental conference circuit, which has been like awesome, amazing. Just like this brand, I mean, it is such a sterile, traditional, boring category. So our 80% is 110% at these dental conferences. It is. Yeah. But anyways, something I've been learning, I'm like, we need to start showing up at occupational therapy conferences because they're the ones dealing with the more senior audience and showing up at these retirement facilities and getting in some of these bigger retirement homes and communities. And yeah, I mean, Facebook's interesting. I just— it's hard. I feel like social media really impacts me, my like mental health. Not LinkedIn though. LinkedIn, I'm like, that is my bread and butter. But like, I am like, I often lurk on Twitter under Flouse, which I need to stop doing. I need to create my own Twitter because like I'm liking things from Flouse, but it's actually just like me. Consuming content. And yeah, maybe Twitter. Maybe I should go to Twitter.

We're gonna use that.

LinkedIn is my happy place.

No, LinkedIn is my— it is my happy place. I'm such a LinkedIn stan. It's just like, I think it's a good balance of being social but also professional. And like, that's really how I more lean. But I do think there's ways I could probably optimize my content because I do think I have important things to share. But it's like, you know, it's a little bit of, um, imposter syndrome. I'm like, who am I?

100%.

Who might be saying this stuff?

You've had a pretty crazy journey. I'm curious, looking back, what would you say is the biggest turning pro moment that you've had?

I think my, my biggest turning pro moment— I think my biggest turning pro moment was when we were still in beta with the product. We were just delivering to our Indiegogo customers across the world, so we didn't even start localized. It was Indiegogo's we shipped to like 50 countries, I think. And in our first 10,000 unit lot, we had a 20% defect rate where the device was, it was during the manufacturing process when it was being assembled. Flouse One had a break in the neck. This body's now all one, had a break in the neck. And when too much pressure was being applied to putting the product together, it would then crack the neck open. So we would have flouses being delivered decapitated, decapitated product, being able to go through that moment. So for anyone that's in consumer hardware and in manufacturing, you know that anything above a 4% defect rate is considered catastrophic failure. We had 20%. To be able to move through that moment and be focused on the solution How are we going to deal with customer service? How are we upping our quality control? Shout out to Factored Quality. What are we doing to ensure this never happens again? What engineering changes do we need to be made? That was such a pivotal moment for me because I was like, this is a make or break moment for this company. And so that moment for me and being able to move through that and have our Indiegogo customers, the ones who received these products, When we look at retention, it is, they are astronomically high. They are such a loyal audience. And I'm like, it's because we showed up, we were transparent, we communicated, and we, we were transparent in the fact that we are a small business. Hi, this is the team, me and one other girl. This is us. We're figuring it out. And being able to have them be a part of the journey allowed them to, I think, have a lot more patience and appreciation.

If you can handle that with grace.

Oh my God, I mean, I was bawling crying. I remember I was in Lake Como for a wedding and I— we would start to see my— we first shipped one to my mom. She opened up the package and she was like, it sent me photos. I was up till probably 2, 3, 4 in the morning hysterically crying. I just started dating my boyfriend at the time, this poor guy, he's having to like listen to me cry and he's in like B2B vertical SaaS software or tech software Um, and just like going through that, it was like, as we talked about, these moments where you're like, this could kill my baby, this could be the moment that this dies. And to try to reposition this again as like solution, let's get to the solution and then figure out how we got here. And yeah, I mean, I tried to handle that with grace. I fired that engineer. That was not graceful, but like, I was like, You lost my trust. You're dead to me. There was other mistakes he made that I was like, the success of a product like Flouse is the product. Like it's the best product wins. And that's what Yeti, my anchor investor is Yeti Capital. And I talked to Roy from Yeti a bunch and that's what he tells me. He's like, you need to use your competitiveness as a category creator to have the best product. That's all that matters. Your brand, the, the marketing, the bells and whistles. That's great. But if you don't have a far, far, far superior product, you're going to lose.

I think when you go through moments like that and come out the other side, you not only can continue to make the right decisions, firing someone, bringing someone else on, communicating with your customers, but you can do so without emotion increasingly. Not in like a bad or—

100%.

But now anytime, like, we unfortunately have to part ways with someone, it's not emotional at all. It's like, I really like you as a person.

It's not personal. It's business. It's just business, this isn't gonna work. And like, like Dr. Jason, even he, he's like, these are new muscles you're flexing. So I talked about some things that, you know, of having to let some people go and like the drama that happens after that, because like I'm looking up how to let someone go with compassion. And then as much as you try to do that, it's like people— you can't control another person. Some people just go off the rails. Yeah. And he's like, these are just muscles you're starting to flex. And like It's just so funny because like I talked to some of my investors and it's because they've been here, done that, like their perspective. I was thinking about letting someone go and I was so nervous and this investor literally was like, fire them today, they're dead to us, shoot them out back. And I was like, just so— and I was like, well, I need to let the team know, I need to— they're like, this isn't a funeral, get rid of them. And I was like, you know, and it's just they've seen this so often that they're like, this This is the game.

Yeah, it—

like, again, the B players bring down the whole team.

I love that.

This is a great place to wrap. This is awesome. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

Can you look at the camera on the left and let everyone know where they can find you, what you're working on?

So, um, you can buy Floss, the world's first electric flosser, online on our website. It's www.gofloss.com. You can also find us on Amazon. And yeah, I would love to hear what you think. Aah!