#078: Allie Egan Reversed Her Autoimmune Diagnosis - Then Built Veracity to Help Others Do the Same

I was trying to get pregnant, start my family, and we ended up, you know, experiencing infertility. Sort of like a year into that, was sent for, you know, the standard testing that they send a lot of women and couples to. In that process was, I like to say, casually diagnosed, diagnosed with a not so casual like thing, which is Hashimoto's. It's an autoimmune metabolic disorder that affects your thyroid, which is your key metabolic health gland, controls, um, you know, weight, temperature, basically everything. And was literally told nothing about it. Was kind of like, okay, here's a, here's a pill, you just take it for the rest of your life and you'll be fine. We were also simultaneously started on an IVF journey and just kind of led to believe that, you know, everything would work itself out. Then 2 and a half years later, when, you know, we weren't we still didn't have success. I was really kind of at the, you know, bottom of the barrel, like emotionally. And I was like, I gotta make a change here. I gotta like figure this out myself because I was asking questions of our, my doctors and not really getting good answers. So I literally just taught myself. I started reading all of my own lab results, like learning all the biomarkers and like asking questions about it. And then I also started seeing a functional medicine doctor. Which at the time the doctor was referred to me as a witch doctor, but I was desperate, so I didn't care. And but I really understood, like, what's—

Welcome back to the Turning Pro Podcast. Today is Season 4, Episode 1. We have Allie Egan, the founder of Veracity. Thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me.

I, I don't think I've said this on a podcast before, but I actually had so much fun going down a rabbit hole doing research for this conversation. Okay, uh, because I'm an absolute health and wellness nerd, and I think we have that in common from what I understand.

I'm sure we do. We've already, uh, examined your sauna, so yes, we definitely have that in common.

It's a, it's a staple. Um, yeah, I think I would love to, would love to start by maybe just learning a little bit about your background. Like, my perspective on it is you're super mom. Okay, it's like you're pregnant, starting businesses. You went from corporate America banking to corporate America to investing to starting a company. Like, you've gone kind of across the spectrum. I would love to learn a little bit about that journey and how you ended up where you are today.

Yeah, well, I guess I'm just bad at relaxing despite my efforts to try, to try to do so. But yeah, I know I'm a Philly kid originally, went to the University of Virginia, didn't know like so many people what I wanted to do, found my way into investment banking because it's just sort of what you're supposed to do. But from there I found my way to consumer private equity. So I worked at a firm called Elkatterton investing in early-stage stage consumer businesses and, you know, was pretty hands-on with our founders and CEOs. And just became very clear to me, like, that's the job I want. I don't want my boss's job. Like, that does not interest me in the long term. And so decided to make a pivot and, you know, want to build brands and be like a true operator. Um, but I didn't want to be like a finance person in a business, which is what people— most sort of ex-bankers, ex- private equity people go and they're like a CFO, right? And I was like, I don't want to be a CFO. If I'm going to be a CFO, I might as well be getting paid at, you know, a big firm or consulting or whatever. Um, and so I went to business school and, you know, I really used business school as an opportunity to like get a lot of reps as an operator with, you know, no actual operating experience prior to that. So I ended up working with some really cool brands at the time, like Glossier, the beauty brand, in 2014 when they were first getting started and Alice and Olivia, the clothing brand, and health and wellness with Purebar. And yeah, and then when I graduated, I went to work at Estée Lauder Companies, worked at 3 of their brands, Clinique, Origins, and La Mer. And, you know, great experience, learned a ton, but I definitely need to be in a more fast-paced environment. I don't know how much you know in the corporate world, but things move quite slowly.

Didn't, didn't make it. I was 12 hours away. I almost got there.

Yeah, well, that's probably saved you, saved you a fair amount of time. But, you know, just for example, something I worked on during my time there didn't come to the market till literally 2 years later, and I was getting to see that come to light, and I was like, my brain does not compute on that timeline. Um, and got the opportunity to join a, um, well-known women's fashion brand called Cynthia Rowley. It's a contemporary brand, um, and help her launch her actual direct-to-consumer business. Because at the time, like, most fashion businesses were like wholesale businesses or licensing businesses. Um, and so, uh, joined and launched her Shopify site. Uh, we, we launched some of our own stores, grew the business super quickly. Um, and honestly, like, that had kind of been like my dream job on paper. Thought I might be there for quite some time, but I was going through a personal health journey that, you know, I would say like really kickstarted my, you know, expertise in the space and then just really saw like a big opportunity to like build a career that was aligned with like my personal passion and, and, you know, vision and mission, but also like a big business opportunity. And I'm like, those things don't often align. And so kind of was like, I, should do this. So long story short, I was trying to get pregnant, start my family, and we ended up, you know, experiencing infertility. Sort of like a year into that, was sent for, you know, the standard testing that they send a lot of women and couples to. And in that process was, I like to say, casually diagnosed, diagnosed with a not so casual, like, thing, which is Hashimoto's. It's an autoimmune metabolic disorder that affects your thyroid, which is your key metabolic health gland, controls, you know, weight, temperature, basically everything. And was literally told nothing about it. Was kind of like, okay, here's a, here's a pill. You just take it for the rest of your life and you'll be fine. And then we were also simultaneously started on an IVF journey and just kind of led to believe that you know, everything would work itself out. I was hopelessly optimistic. Then 2 and a half years later, when, you know, we weren't— we still didn't have success, I was really kind of at the, you know, bottom of the barrel, like emotionally. And, and I was like, I got to make a change here. I got to, like, figure this out myself because I was asking questions of my doctors and not really getting good answers. And so I literally just taught myself. I started reading all of my own lab results, like learning all the biomarkers and like asking questions about it. And then I also started seeing a functional medicine doctor, which at the time the, the doctor was referred to me as a witch doctor, but I was desperate, so I didn't care. And but I really understood like what this disease was like the imbalances in my body that it was causing and like started being able to make some lifestyle adjustments. Like, and like I was, I had been a healthy person before. I'm a marathon runner. I eat pretty well, all those things. But that doesn't mean that like there aren't things in your body that are not causing it to work properly and efficiently. And that was obviously the case for me. And, you know, through that, through making those changes, you know, now I have 2 children. And I've actually been able to reverse my Hashimoto's, something like literally doctors don't even tell you that's possible. Like they just put you on this pill for eternity. And so, you know, it was not intentional because when I kind of went through this experience, I, I just had this like personal frustration of like, if I had known this stuff a few years earlier, I would have been able to like make some changes and then maybe not have gone through all this pain and And my experience and like, I, you know, talked to so many other folks and I realized I was not unique. And so my kind of insight was this needs to come to more people earlier, like in their journey of life. But preventative medicine is like almost impossible. I think you've seen like multiple companies and, you know, initiatives fail because people, just humans, have a really hard time thinking long term. Uh, but you know, from my experience working in like the beauty world, the fashion world, I was like, there's a way of doing this and it's connecting to like the problems that people care about today that they're already spending money, time, brain space on, you know, and showing them that there are like, these are all driven by root cause issues, giving them, you know, safer, um, cleaner, more effective solutions that are actually getting to that root cause and. And really trying to build a brand and content and engagement that is, I like to say, helping people become better CEOs of their own health. Um, and obviously some people take that, you know, and run with it more than others. Um, but, you know, really just saw an opportunity there and it was sort of like, you know, when it rains, it pours, because when I decided to start working on this business, I also finally found out I was pregnant with my son and And so, you know, over the last, I guess, almost 5 years, I've been building a company and my family simultaneously. So, um, it's, uh, hopefully I'm gonna look back and, and be like, how the hell did I do that? But, you know, just right now I'm just kind of powering through.

I appreciate you sharing that. A question I have for you, I don't know if this is a function of how I spend my time and who I spend my time around, but do you feel like there has been a shift over the last like year or so on just this notion of the healthcare system. And because I see all these companies popping up, whether it's like Superpower or Function Health, of this concept of being proactive, like getting into the root causes, like understanding your actual body before just like going to the doctor and being prescribed something.

Yeah.

From your perspective, as someone who's been way deeper than me in it, just given that it, it was your personal experience and the business you're building, what do you think was that societal shift that has all of a sudden sparked way more conversations now than I ever remember a few years prior?

I think it's two things. I think it's generational, and I think it's, uh, you know, social media has good things and bad things about it. But a lot of these, um, problems are particularly for women, are like really surrounded in a lot of shame. Like whether it's like, I have acne and so I don't talk about it, but like I'm going to like tell my doctor about it and ask for help. And but then you're dismissed or just told you should go on Accutane or something like that's very harsh to your body overall. And I think so many people have experienced these frustrations years and years in the making. And, you know, starting with millennials, but definitely more with Gen Zs, people are like, WTF, like this. And they're— and then obviously social media like kind of feeds that funnel of like people putting it out there and it not being, you know, the shame being removed a little bit so that it's able to become more of a movement.

Yeah, I guess it's, it's asking the right questions and being willing to, like, question everything.

I think it's feeling like you're not alone because I think so many people feel like, oh, it's just me, like, or I'm like, my body is just screwed up. And like, and now it's like, no, wait, actually, like, so many people have these problems.

And I think the other piece of it, which has been a learning for me throughout my professional journey, is disassociating someone's, like, title or pedigree with everything they're saying as like being the truth and the only answer, right? Because when you're young and naive, you go to a doctor, a doctor tells you something, you're like, all right, well, that's, that's the problem.

Yeah.

You don't think to like question that because in your mind you're like, well, they went to school for X amount of years, they've been working as a doctor for X amount of years. In what world am I qualified to like push back against what they're telling me?

Yeah, totally. And like, I mean, honestly, it's both the like, uh, wisdom of getting older and also kind of the like disrupting your, uh, sense of, uh, like perfection when you realize like nobody actually knows what they're talking about.

That is exactly when that light bulb goes off in your head. I think your lens on the world changes completely because you're like, I can go sell the dream on a new idea that I have, and if I just sell it strong enough, someone's gonna believe it. Yeah, like I can go in a room and push back on someone regardless of their pedigree and their accolades, and they might actually still give a shit about what I have to say.

Yeah, yeah, it's both empowering and also kind of like sad because you're like, all these people that you thought were like perfect and like a pedestal, you're like, they also didn't know what they were doing. But no, I mean, with physicians, I have a lot of sympathy for them because there's like, you know, this like backlash of like, you know, Western medicine is crap and, and whatever. But like, we have to realize, like, they are only as good as the system allows them to be. And they are also humans too. And we have chosen in our world of Western medicine to say precision is more important than, you know, holistic care or however else you want to term it. So like, for example, like OB-GYN is like most women are mostly going to their OB-GYNs, not even a primary care doctor. The OB-GYN is basically, I like to say, like is a baby surgeon. Like their main, like training is centered around like being able to, you know, somehow extract a baby from the womb and not mess it up, right? Like they— so the whole training is centered around like minimizing the messing of that up. But yet we rely on them for like every hormonal health concern, any like, you know, pre-pregnancy, pregnancy, postpartum, general health and acne. And they're not trained to do that stuff. And they, you know, they learn through their clinical experience and hearing a bunch of people. But like, They're also not human algorithms. They can't give us the best output and they're not trained on some things that would be helpful in really actually coming to the best decisions like nutrition and, you know, even hormone health. Like, I mean, now, you know, I wouldn't— obviously I'm not a physician, but like, I know a fair amount about hormones and I'm, you know, kind of in shock talking to doctors about actually how little they know in certain areas.

Well, I think something that I realized in the midst of you just explaining that, like, so my dad's a doctor, my mom's a nurse, so I come from a medical family. But what you realize is that in the world of school and training, getting an A in a class, for example, doesn't mean you got 100% of the, the questions right. You can get, you know, 90% of it and still get an A. But when you translate that into real world, when you have patients, like, you kind of need to have like 100% success rate all the time.

Yeah.

And so having a little bit of grace for people in the medical field knowing that they don't have all the answers is very important. But again, to the point we made before, people just assume because they have the accolades that they should have all the answers all the time. And so if they give you the wrong answer, you want to blame them for your own, you know, challenges.

And as a CEO yourself, like, you make mistakes. They're just like, they're less consequential.

Yeah, which is scary, but also the same reason that I envy those people who choose to, like, be the decision maker for someone else's life and livelihood in the healthcare system.

Yeah.

You said something earlier that I want to go back to, which was at the beginning of your career you went into investment banking because that's what people told you you were supposed to do.

Yeah.

So this is a topic that I talk about a lot because I was someone who went to a corporate competitive school, fell into that trap of getting the corporate job because everyone else around me did, got the job, and then was like, no, I'm not doing it. I, in my heart of hearts, I know this is not what's going to make me happy. I want to understand from you your perspective on that decision. Given where you are today? Do you regret doing it? And then the second piece of my question is, what would your advice be to people who are unsure what they want to do but know they have passions that maybe are different than what others are telling them to do?

Yeah, it's funny. I've been asked to come back even to my alma mater and speak because I think that a lot of my alma mater, as I've kind of mentioned, uh, they, you know, people go into like banking and consulting and they use me as like the example of someone who's not, but I'm like, but I actually did do that. So I'm not sure I'm the best example, but anyhow, um, I, you know, I, I think I'm torn because there's this part of me that, you know, if you know what you want to do, you should just go do it. That's also why people say like business school is a waste of time or whatever. Obviously I also went to business school. Um, but like there is, it is such good training in figuring stuff out and being like, put under pressure and, you know, um, it's hard. It's like dog hard work. And you building that like muscle is like, will stay with you for the rest of your life. So if you don't know what you wanna do, I do think like, you know, these banking consulting things, like they build your network. Like one of my lead investors, someone who I worked with in investment banking, and it's like, why do you, why do you, why does he trust me? Cuz we like work together at 2:00 AM, like cranking out things and stuff like that. So I would say, like, don't— I don't want to come to a place of like, it's just because it's not what I want to do doesn't mean like it's bad and should be skipped by everybody. Because like when you're 22 years old, like, who the hell knows what they want to do anyway? Like, you haven't even seen the world. And it's a good way. I do think like people need to like not push things off, right? Like, and that money is very tempting. Like my first year out of undergrad, I was already making more money than my parents had made. Growing up, like, and that was cool. But then I also had to like take a step back from that when I said, wait, now I want to like be an operator. And I don't think a lot of people have the stomach to do that. So it's also you got to like figure out like what your personal tolerance for that is. Yeah, but it's an interesting, like, you know, it's an interesting conundrum for, for young people. And that I don't have a perfect answer to.

Was there a specific moment that you can recall where you're like, all right, I'm making the switch? I know obviously you allude to your health journey, but was there like one specific incident that you can recall right now that you're like, this was the moment in time where I'm like, I'm put on this earth to do something way more impactful and meaningful that more aligns with my values?

Well, first it was when I wanted to just leave like finance and investing. And I just remember being at, um, like all these funds will have these big investor days where they bring their LPs or their investors in and basically sing their own praises Everybody does this. And at the time, Catterton had just exited their biggest equity investment ever. It was both the biggest check they had ever written and the biggest, like, cash-on-cash return. It's called Restoration Hardware.

Yeah, I've heard of it.

Yeah, but you may not know, like, literally this was like a janky mall store. It was like a very, like, weird, crappy looking business. And like, they invested in it. And brought in this like visionary CEO, Gary Friedman. Like he changed the whole brand. He literally changed the whole like way that supply chain works. Like he created something amazing and he honestly created that modern furniture aesthetic that now has been copied a bunch of times. Um, but anyway, in them like singing, you know, them meaning Catterton singing their praises for having this great investment. Like I, I just couldn't stop sitting there and being like, you guys enabled that somewhat because you need money to do things, but like you didn't create any of it. Like these— Gary and his team did. And I was like, and I was like, what do I value for myself? Like, I like being a creator. I like, um, you know, putting my money where my mouth is and being like, this is my idea, I'm gonna go build it and like, you know, measure up. And like sometimes it won't work and sometimes it will. Um, and that's when I was like, I gotta, you know, switch it up in general. And then with starting my own company, being completely candid, and I feel like something I feel very passionate about as a female entrepreneur who's raised venture capital is being very honest about it because I don't think there's a lot of transparency. Obviously, there's not a lot of them. But I was super excited about this idea, but I had a great job and I also was like, probably wouldn't have just like so easily left that behind. But like why the— an investor who's, you know, now, you know, a big investor in my company, um, basically was like, hey, if you want to do this, I'll be your first investor and, you know, you can help me with my fund, um, a little bit. And, and so, you know, you sort of de-risk it from a, uh, you know, you could be a venture partner, you can like sort of— it looks like you're doing something even if you're not doing something. And that made a big difference for me because like, look, I— everybody has a little bit of an ego and like to throw something away and then maybe for it to not go anywhere is really hard. But when you're like, okay, I'm at least going to have some money and I'm going to have some title that will like, you know, allow me to feel okay or pivot back or do whatever. And that really was like a big, okay, this doesn't come around every day. If I'm ever going to do this, like, now is the time.

What drives you?

That's a good question.

Because you were like, I can't sit still. And I'm like, I can relate because I feel like I've done a lot of the similar activities that you have. So I'm trying to understand from other people.

Do you know what drives you? Like, I don't know that I've been able to, like, my whole life put it into words. Like, I feel like it's a talent. Being intrinsically motivated is a talent, and there's no other way of saying it. Like, I'm more— I'm in a better, happier place when I'm like, solving problems, figuring stuff out. Like, I just like doing that. Like, and I think it's like even my— I kind of alluded to it, but like both my parents worked for the government growing up. Like, there was no pressure on me ever to like do well. It was sort of like I took the SAT and I didn't even study for it. You know, probably wish I would have, but whatever. So, you know, I think it's just like I like challenges.

Yeah, I think for me, curiosity is a big part of it. And then the other piece of it too is that I just find fulfillment in like doing things. Yeah, I have to make more of an effort now to like turn my brain off to like find time to be intentional.

For sure.

That's actually the harder part. So I guess that's another question I have for you as super mom where you're like building businesses, investing in businesses. You also have kids and a family. Like, how do you think about the work-life balance piece? Because admittedly, that's something I'm not good at where I feel like it consumes me a lot.

Yeah. And there's like honestly no good answer. I honestly kind of even hate the word balance because it's just like a misnomer for people and makes them feel bad about themselves sometimes. I think there's— you should think of your whole life as like periodization. I'm a runner, so that's like, you know, a term that they use. But like, this is my absolute priority for either this like section of my life, whether it's a year or a month or whatever, or even if it's just part of your day. Like, so when I'm like at work, like I really try to like I'm not like, you know, worrying about stuff at the kids' school or whatever. Like, I am very focused on this. And then, you know, and I've had— this is hard too. Like, when I come home at night, I like have to put my phone away because otherwise my brain will like go to like, oh, what did this person say? Or email or whatever. And then like, I'm not present for my kids. And like, I only get like, you know, an hour and a half or something with them when I get home anyhow. So It's been a learning journey for me. And if I actually do that, it does help with a reset, like a mental reset. Like when after I put them to bed, then I probably go back to my computer and get all those things done that I was thinking about. But if I kind of— it's almost worse when you play in no man's land where you're trying to relax but not letting yourself relax.

Because you're not doing anything well. It's like you're not giving the kids attention. You're not actually responding to the email.

Yeah. Or it's like going on vacation, sitting there with your phone the whole time. You're like, you might as well just like either go on vacation and be like out, or don't go and, you know, be productive.

I feel like everyone knows that multitasking is just ineffective, yet most people still do it. I think it's just like this addiction to trying to like get everything done as fast as you can.

It's just hard because there's like, there isn't enough time to do all the things that like you want to do. And something like I have, you know, tried to learn is like and I think being a parent is actually a forcing mechanism to do it. You have to ruthlessly prioritize and just chop things off the list. And maybe you'll get to them eventually or whatever. But something I do enjoy is I do like giving back and talking to young entrepreneurs and things like that. But I've had to drastically reduce that for this point in my life because just don't have the extra capacity. And like, part of me is like, I— that's something I want to do more, but like, I just gotta— like, there's seasons of life for those things.

You made a comment there that I want to touch on, which is around like planning for seasons of life. For you individually, how do you think about like goal setting and planning? Like, I would love to know your framework or approach to that.

Sure. Uh, like from a business perspective or a life perspective?

I mean, both. How they— because like they intersect at some point. But even like in terms of time horizon, like, are you someone that's setting like monthly goals, yearly goals, 5 years, and then how do you see that overlay between like your business goals and your personal goals?

Yeah, I think like I, as, you know, honestly going through my whole infertility journey and getting older, like I've become more spiritual in that way of like, what is your purpose in life and trying to like, you know, that it can change or the way you frame it can change. But if you like understand like where, What are the big things on my deathbed that like I'm going to want to say about myself? Like, you know, people use that like tombstone exercise or whatever, like trying to like remind yourself of that. And I, I try to like at least once a week do like a real reflection and kind of like just like, like pretty freeform, but like just put thoughts out there and like see what like, and then almost see my reaction to it. And I think that gives you a good barometer like for like, are you moving in the right direction or the wrong direction? And then it's like taking those things and then trying to like actually break it down into real actions. Like, okay, what am I going to do? Like for your business planning, like, you know, if this is the big idea, like how are we going to get there? And we, you know, for, for Veracity, we really try to be like super intentional, like every quarter sitting down, like what are actual goals? Like how are we measuring them? All that kind of stuff. Um, but just really keeping, um, keeping that simple, I think, is the hardest part of it. Because you can, like, just write, like, all these complex goals, but, like, you realize in life, like, how little control you actually have over outcomes. But, like, if you control your own, like, processes, that's gonna, like— it's gonna put you in the best position to take advantage of it when, you know, you know, time decides that it's right.

Yeah. And then another piece of it, I think you alluded to this as well, but like there's a small minority of women who are like mothers and badass founders. Like obviously we all would love to see that number grow.

Yeah.

But I want to double-click into that part of your life with your relationship and how you like manage a family, because I think, you know, I'm just— I was sitting here recounting with like my friends, and I don't really have many friends whose mothers are like badass CEOs.

Yeah.

Uh, so I'd love to know how that has like affected your relationship, or maybe just like your communication style, knowing that like you're doing something that I would say is not the norm today.

Yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, first of all, it's not the norm because it is really hard. And like, we want to pretend like men and women, or females and males, are like exactly the same, but they're not. And like, even with children, like, I think women met, you know, females, whatever, uh they just have different preferences and different callings to them, even biologically, that want to have them be different type of parents. Now, I'm just— I'm speaking somewhat in generalizations, but I think it's like, you know, people say like mom guilt and things, but that's real. And it is rooted in actual biology, and it makes sense. And it's like, for us to cover it up because we're trying to be super feminists is also silly. It's like we should also like just be real with ourselves. Like, what do we want out of like life and this experience? But I guess like a couple of things to say. Like, one, I do feel really lucky that like for, you know, I have a great husband who, you know, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing and take the risks that I'm doing, like without like his financial stability. But also like, I think he like respects like and is like, no, I want you to be like a badass and like supports me in that. And so it would be like, it would be too much of an uphill battle if I didn't have that support. So that's really important. And, you know, for people who are like maybe get in a relationship, like having a partner who really like, who aligns with your vision of you as well is like super important. Like, you know, I didn't think about this at the time, but I dated a guy in college that, you know, I thought maybe I would have married him and like he didn't— definitely did not have that vision of me. And like, who knows what would have happened if I had stayed with him. Um, and then the other thing I think is like, we need to make it easier for people. Like, I'm able to do some of the things I'm able to do because we're in a relatively, you know, well-off financial position. Like, I live in New York City, I can have access to childcare, etc. Like, I think it's like so messed up that like our society now is like telling women to freeze their eggs and wait till they're 40 to like have kids if they also want a career. Like, That's not like biologically correct. And also like, I don't necessarily want to be like the old mom on the playground, like not being able to like run after my kids or like, you know, stuff like that. It's like we've got to figure out how to like, like give people access to like childcare so they can do badass things. But like, it feels so impossible for so many people. So like, I just want to— I do feel lucky that I'm in that privileged position.

Yeah, you'll start with fixing the healthcare system and then you can move into the childcare system. I want to, I want to jump in a little bit deeper into your business and more just around health holistically. I think for starters, for people who are listening to this who are like intrigued by improving their quality of life, like what would you say are 3 to 4 like low barrier things that they should be doing from a habit perspective to improve their health?

I mean, look, all like I think when you talk about holistic health, like what does that mean? Like it means that you're treating the entire person. That's, you know, physical, mental, emotional, etc. And also like thinking about problems not constrained to one area of the body. So like, and that's the problem with our medical system. For example, if you have acne, I'm going to treat the skin versus like thinking about like where is this, you know, imbalance of maybe testosterone coming from or things like that. And so, you know, it's you know, it's harder because you have to like really treat all of these different, you know, aspects of you, like what you're putting in your body, on your body, how you're moving your body, how you're resting your body, etc. But another thing I like to just ground people in is like in this world of wellness, there's like all this like biohacking, you know, bullshit. And like, and it's not that like, you know, the Bryan Johnson kind of stuff, which like, look, it's super interesting. Like I'm a science nerd, so like I'm kind of interested by it. But like, it doesn't move the needle like that much. Like, there's so much if you just like actually, you know, figure out how to get better sleep, how to like eat vegetables and not processed foods. Like, your body actually knows what to do. And like when people like, you know, when I've cured my Hashimoto's, like, could it come back? Yeah, for sure it could. But like, and people like want to hear this like, like crazy thing that I did that like is the tipping point. And like the basically two things I did were I stopped eating gluten and I really removed my exposure to endocrine disruptors as much as I have like human control over. So I'm really glad you provided us, uh, glass drinking, but like, you know, minimizing plastics, not putting stuff in the dishwasher, like, uh, looking at the materials in my house, just like those tiny, they seem tiny and inconsequential, but I think it's this cumulative load on the body that you're asking it to do. So I guess general principles are like regular good health hygiene. And then also just thinking about like all these little, like, you know, battles that we're forcing our body to fight, whether it's like the processed food or the chemicals. And it's like, if you try to like just even remove a quarter of those, like your body's going to work better.

So yeah, the way that I— because I had like a big light bulb moment a few months ago and the way that I thought about it was if you ask yourself what are either the things you do the most of or the products that you consume the most of, if those aren't of the highest quality, then you're probably doing something wrong. So for me it was actually sleep and water.

Yeah.

So I became a huge sleep nerd a month ago. My girlfriend tells people that she sleeps next to a robot because I have like the full, like a nasal dilator and the eye mask and the mouth guard. Yeah, I've like tried a bunch of different things.

Yeah.

And then with water, like, I just got— there's Aurora. Aurora is the company. Have you heard of it?

Yeah, yeah.

So I have Aurora machine and like the whole thing about like drinking it not in plastic.

Yeah.

It's like you're 80% water and you're supposed to drink a lot of water. So why would you not drink the highest quality water? And with sleep, it's like we all know that sleep is the most important thing for us.

Yeah.

Why would we not get good sleep?

Yes. Right, right. And if you do that, it's going to do way more than any sort of like NAD infusion or or like cold plunge or anything like that. Like, and if you're not doing that stuff right, those other fringe things aren't also gonna help. It's sort of like, it's like we're, it's weird because we're like treating ourselves like professional athletes, but like we're not even doing like, do the big things big and do the small things small is kind of like the mantra for it.

People are looking for novel ideas to do like unique things, but it's like, well, are you doing the basics first? Because if not, then you don't, need, like, to your point, you don't need the NAD shots if you're not drinking the right water and not getting the right sleep and not eating whole foods.

Yeah.

Why are you jumping?

Like, people haven't, like, talked to people about that as much. And so, like, even something I think about, like, with Veracity and, like, we're, you know, a root cause metabolic health company and, you know, we sell supplements that are, you know, basically very plant powerful, plant potent alternatives to prescription drugs. But like something I say to my team all the time is like, my desire is like, I don't want to sell people just a bottle of pills. I'm trying to sell them a lifestyle of understanding what it means to, like, take care of themselves in the right way. Because the truth is, like, we know our supplements work. We have, like, multiple clinical trials. We have tons of actual client testimonials and experience. But like, no matter what you do, if you take, you know, we have a— our hero supplement is called Metabolism Ignite. It's a GLP-1 alternative. And like we have like really great like experiences with, you know, weight loss results. But I always say like, does it matter if you take that and then you, you know, eat pizza 3 times a day and drink a case of beer? Like you're not going to have success. And so like it matters, it matters what else you do.

How do you guys think about education as it relates to Verasti? Like, is that a message that you're carrying out to someone? Like, this is not— this doesn't make it okay because I think The obvious example that I'm thinking of is like Ozempic, right? Someone's like, I'm just going to take Ozempic and then I can like eat pizza and do whatever. And like, I'm just going to lose all this weight because I'm taking this drug. How do you guys think about like messaging and marketing in general to people to basically educate them to know that your product is more like one piece of the puzzle? It's not like this or that.

Yeah, it's less flashy sometimes. And like you have, you know, other supplement companies kind of being like, Just eat these gummies and then your whole health is fixed. But like, my point of view is like, you know, this is a category where people actually want long-term results and like we're taking the long view of like, yeah, maybe I won't have the most flashy thing or celebrity or, you know, but like I'm actually trying to, you know, educate and make a difference in people's lives so they see change. Um, so I think it's just about, for us, it's, it's about a couple things. It's about creating a lifestyle around it that people like feel it makes them feel good. And it also puts them as like, you know, really the hero in their battle against all the things that are making it hard for them to be successful. Cuz I think like most people, they, they, they generally know they wanna eat healthier, they wanna exercise more, whatever, but like there's so many hurdles in like actually being able to execute that, you know, plan of action day after day, month after month, year after year, etc. So I think it's like from a, from a brand. And then the other thing we do, or I think about a lot, is like make our, you know, our key clientele now is women 30 to 55. And it's like they, they don't have time for bullshit. And it's like, what do I need to do? Why do I need to do it? And how do I do it specifically? So I hate— I use this example I like to use is like, particularly as like a mom of young kids, I, you know, we obviously just talked about sleep, but when someone's recommendation is sleep more, you're like, you know, middle finger kind of thing because you're like, yeah, sure. If I had like all the time in the world, I would sleep more. But we talk to people about like practically, like, here, turn the thermostat down, you know, practice, wear an eye mask, like simple hacks that like they feel like, okay, I actually know how to do this. And then I can see progress. So some of it's not all like, you know, shatter the earth, like breakthrough, but it's just like we, I think, do a good job of breaking down that science that like from real trusted sources in ways that people can implement in their life.

What would you say is the most overhyped wellness trend right now?

Oh my God, there's so many. I mean, I'm trying to think of— I'm not like a big TikTok person, but obviously there's like You know, the whole like apple cider vinegar and things and like I use apple cider vinegar. I don't think it's like bad, but like, again, like things that you are not a complete resolution, like a more simple thing is like people should stop using mouthwash because that's killing your oral microbiome and it actually affects you like the way your body processes nitric acid and ultimately blood sugar and things like that. And like You know, that's a much bigger needle mover than taking some other things.

Wait, I want to talk about that because I actually don't use mouthwash. Yeah. Um, I became a flosser.

Okay, well, that's good.

Uh, yeah, do you know the brand Floss? It's a female, female founder in New York, Sam Cox. Okay, she's another like badass CEO.

All right.

Um, she made an electrical flosser. Oh, so my whole thing was like, is it coated or it's just like— well, you like— they— you have like floss heads that are replaceable.

Okay.

I don't think— I don't know.

You know how like some of the Colgate crests are like, they're coated in basically Teflon.

No, I don't, I don't believe so.

Yeah, okay.

But my whole thing was like, I hated ripping off a string. Like, it was just so tight. Yeah, it's gross and time intensive. I was like, I just don't want to do this.

Yeah.

But once I got one of these devices, I've done it every single day. But I actually didn't know this about, uh, mouthwash. So it's not good for you? Are there any mouthwashes that are good for you, or it's—

no, because it's killing the— your, your digestion starts in your mouth. Like, your, your mouth is part of your gut. And even like something we talk to people about, like, in, like, is chewing your food 20 to 30 times. Or you can, you know, if you're not— if you're— because we're moving through life so fast that we're just shoving things in our mouth. And if you're actually not even breaking down things in your mouth, then they're not getting processed and you're not getting those nutrients further downstream. And then they're— you're just excreting that as waste or whatever. So the mouth and like is a key part to your overall, like, health and wellness. I would say that, like, is kind of ignored.

So what are other— I like, more specifically with gut health, like, what are the other things that you would say are maybe, uh, not talked about enough, or the common things you should be doing that people are just unaware of?

Um, let me think of, like, the, the examples, like, don't use mouthwash.

I'm like, okay, check.

Yeah, I, I think Like, look, people like have some awareness of leaky gut and what that means, but that— but they don't really actually understand what that means. But basically, like, your intestinal wall is only one cell thick and lots of different things— stress, like Hashimoto's, whatever— can disrupt that intestinal barrier. And then once that gets broken, like, it's almost like haywire. And that's when it's really hard to figure stuff out. So I would say in general, like, instead of just doing these, like, oh, I'm going to take a probiotic and assume that my gut health is like in a good place, like really doing like a full, like cleanse sort of. And that doesn't mean like just drinking like, you know, lemon water or whatever. Like we have a cleanse product that helps like reset this. But you should also think about like, you know, a period of time, even if it's only 30 days, of like eating foods that are going to help rebuild back that intestinal barrier. Because like you can't even grow the right, um, microbiome until you like lock the door, if you would. So that's something that I think people like don't have a super good understanding of. And honestly, the science is still trying to figure out exactly. It's like you kind of have to do some personal trial and error. And the other thing I would say is like trying to eat real food that like grows your body's own microbiome is super important because similar to drugs like, like Ozempic, we're trying to take everything exogenously, like, like, oh, this is good. So let me like, I, you know, scientists study like, oh, GLP-1 makes you less hungry, so let's just put more of that in there. Like, I like to say, like, nature makes things very intentionally. And when you, like, offset that chemistry in a major way, like, it does not like that. And it's kind of the same thing. Even some of these healthy things, like, I'm going to take, you know, 200 billion, you know, CFUs of probiotics and then my gut health will be amazing. Well, like, you know what actually creates a better microbiome is when you're feeding your gut microbiome with the right fiber that, you know, it then is colonizing in itself and not having to just like plop additional stuff in there. So yeah, I guess those— I don't know if that's too complicated the way I said it.

No, this is— no, this is helpful. I have another question and maybe this is a stupid question, but I ask them many ways. Why? And maybe this is incorrect, but I find that like the gut health problem is way more prevalent in women in my life versus men in my life.

Yeah.

Why is that? Or is that incorrect?

No, that— I look, I don't have like perfect data on that, but I think women in general have more signs of gut dysbiosis, which will be like sort of like signs of IBS, gas, bloating, indigestion, constipation, all that kind of stuff. And I think part of it is because our hormones are different. And then even the cycle within the month sort of like puts us in a different place. And that, you know, is kind of annoying, but like you just— it's the reality of what you have to deal with. But like estrogens, for example, we have— all of us are exposed to way too many estrogens and estrogen mimickers, and estrogens can live like those molecules can live a while and they can build up in the whole body, but particularly in the gut, and then cause other issues. So that is why, like, you know, cruciferous vegetables like broccoli and Brussels sprouts and cauliflower and things like that are super important for that, like detoxification aspect from like estrogens. Yeah. And then like, look, I think in general, like, this is not super scientific, just to be clear, but like cortisol mismanagement is a big factor in what stores, you know, what offsets blood sugar and like leads to different both gut and overall like health issues. And I think like, you know, women, they say that women have more level, higher levels of stress on average, you know, maybe because they're dealing with kids and, you know, business stresses and all that stuff. So being able to like get your cortisol, not like eliminate cortisol, that's like actually not good either. But it's really about like you want your cortisol to like rise within the first 30 minutes of the day and then you want like this general, like really nice sloping curve downward to like, you know, melatonin then starts to take over around like 6 PM and you get restful sleep or whatever. But a lot of women, like their cortisol is spiking at night and then like even if they're sleeping, they're not getting restful sleep. And if you don't get restful sleep, like then your body can't do the detoxification because 90% of that detox happens when you're sleeping.

Well, I feel like this is like a health masterclass. This is what I needed.

I don't think I said this, but like, by the way, I do have a health coach certification. Like, I obviously like self-educated myself when I was going, like, for my own selfish, like, health reasons. But then when I was getting started on Veracity and like, you know, our initial thought was like, how do we help people understand like their root cause issues? Like, that are causing all these aesthetic health concerns. And so like I went through a training and, you know, really made sure I educated myself because I do think it's like, you know, A, I am such a nerd and I love it, but B, like if I'm going to be the CEO of a company talking about these things, like I have to know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I think that's probably a good, good train of thought. I'm going to take a bit of a turn here because I feel like I'd be remiss to not nerd out on this with you for a few minutes, but You have a very extensive background in e-commerce. You've worked at corporates. You have your own D2C brand. Yeah, obviously that's the world that I eat, breathe and sleep as well.

Yeah.

So would love to hear from your perspective as a brand founder, like how you've seen the ecosystem evolve over the last couple of years and like where you think it's going and like what's top of mind for you as a brand founder that sells on D2C.

Yeah, it's so interesting because, you know, I did a lot brand e-commerce businesses starting in 2016. I mean, tangentially through the companies that I worked with when I was an investor, but obviously that's not as hands-on. And then like launched Cynthia Rowley's business in what I'll call like more the heyday of e-commerce when, you know, meta acquisition costs were super low and, you know, people weren't doing crazy stuff on Shopify, but it was like still going, you know, nuts. I guess like where do I see the ecosystem? Look, I think there's been this like, initially there was this whole like e-commerce brands are actually tech brands and like, you know, because they were building their own quote unquote technology, but it was really just like the same thing as opening a store, right? Like you have to like, you know, paint a store if you're going to open like a physical retail location, you have to do the same thing from a technology perspective. And then people realize like, oh wait, that actually is just like base case, like how do you like turn on the lights, basically. Um, but I think that like the best companies and brands are going to win when they understand like the, the analytics from an e-commerce perspective, like who are my customers, what is the journey, how do I like understand lifetime value, and you know, all the like hardcore data stuff. But then they're also managing that with like how do I build a brand on top of that and make sure I'm building a branded experience. Because I think we're getting the next phase of where we're at from an e-commerce perspective is like, you can see some of these, like, like, not to belittle them, but like kind of more random brands that you hear about and you're like, that's a $200 million brand. And you're like, and honestly, it makes me look at myself sometimes and I'm like, holy shit, like, what am I doing wrong? Because we're not quite there yet.

You're getting there.

But like in a, in the e-commerce world, in a branded world, it's still like, how do you build something that's actually enduring? And it's a combination of the physical product side and then the like engagement side and trying to make a good cus— like client experience. We, we call our customers clients. Um, so I don't know, maybe that's not a super specific answer, but it's like, who's gonna win? It's like, they really, well, going back to like the heart of why I love consumer in general, and it's like, marrying that art and science of the two.

How did your experience as an investor in the world of consumer inform like decisions you've made on the operator side? And like, do you think there are things that you learned as an investor that like expedited your learning curve to like avoid mistakes once you built your own brand?

Yeah, I think where I'm like a bit of an anomaly, hopefully in a good way, is like a founder is like I have this like personal passion. I do a lot of our content. I have you know, you know, speak about the actual health issues. But then like, I'm also like an operator and from like, I know how to like run a P&L. And I think that's really the training that sticks with me of like understanding like, okay, how are we balancing, you know, growth versus cost and what should my tech stack look like? Because I think a lot of people, particularly in e-commerce with this stacking of stuff, right? Like you have your Shopify store And then you have apps and it's like, it's not even always transparent, like what your carrying cost is for these things. Cause even like you get billed in all these random ways, like some it's through Shopify, some it's elsewhere. So you're like, you're like trying to keep track of it is like really hard. But like, if you actually like look at it and you're like, oh my gosh, like for us to even turn on the lights in this business, it's gonna cost us this amount of money a month. And then you start backing into like, okay, well what does that mean we have to do revenue-wise? And you know, new customer versus repeat and all that stuff. I think it just like having a deep knowledge of that just helps you to not have so many mistakes. And, you know, in the world where acquisition isn't free anymore, like having less mistakes is just going to make you a more successful business.

We're almost at time here. So there's a couple last things I want to talk about. One is your marathon running. So I ran one marathon. Oh, —New York— and realize, like, I don't think marathons is necessarily the thing. Okay. But I'm curious from your perspective, like, what is the self-talk that you go through for these miles that you're just putting in every week, given like how busy your life is?

I— you got to— if it's your thing, you got to love the process. And I think about that with like even building a company, like it's so freaking hard. And if you— is it worth it when like even if you have a big exit, I'm just like making a scenario up. 10 years down the line, you get this heyday thing. But if you haven't loved that last 10 years of your life, like obviously you don't have to love every single second of it, but if you haven't loved it, like, is it, is it even worth it? Like, um, and so like, I love the process. Like, and I love it because like, look, it's partly, I have 2 kids, like my business, like I have a thriving business, but like, it's like sort of like once like the, I get out the door, like the day is just like bananas and you don't get a chance to like breathe. And like, I live right near Central Park. I get to run with friends and just connect socially and like have that like, like human part of my day before any of the, like the clock starts. And I just think that's so valuable. And then it's just like, you know, it's stemming back to our conversation on like what motivates you. Like, it's just cool to see what you can do. And some days it's like less than you would want and some days it's more. But like, I think there's not as many things in our day-to-day lives that like are as honest as something like running. Like you put in the work and you get to see the results. Like, and you know, there's not as many variables that sort of screw that up. And I actually really like that because even other parts of life, they're just so much messier. Yeah, I really like that.

In spirit of turning pro, looking back at your journey, what would you say is the number one number one turning pro moment along the way where you felt like things just went to a whole new level for you?

Um, that's a good question. Look, I think getting the opportunity to run the business at Cynthia Rowley just like put my career on a different pedestal of— you just get a lot of respect. And that's like, you know, getting that respect is really helpful, um, in just, you know, convincing people to give you money to start a company and do other things and But I guess like the caveat there is like, because I had a, you know, I went to Harvard Business School and I had a bunch of people like reach out to me like, how do I get to be a CEO and whatever? And you're like, you also got to like be patient. And I think it's like about just putting in the work and like when the luck comes, just being ready for it. But it is nice to get that validation because it's just like, you know, people work on heuristics and, you know, having some of those cheat codes just helps, helps you.

Amazing. Well, I appreciate you coming on today. This is really fun. You want to just look at that camera, let everyone know where they can find you and what you're working on?

Yeah. So my company is Veracity. You can find us on our website, veracityselfcare.com, or on Instagram or TikTok under the same handle.

Amazing.

Yeah, that's it. This is fun. Awesome.