#081: From Comedy Cellar to Tech CEO: How Jon Laster Built Blapp from Scratch

I'm sitting in the house, man, and watching George Floyd get choked. George Floyd, 6'4", 215, same skin color, same haircut. Like, so watching this guy die was kind of like watching myself be choked to death in the street. You know what I mean? And I wanted to do some, make some change that was sustainable. So I created the, you know, an app that'll find you wherever you are in the world and put the Black-owned businesses around you on a Google map. And then we just launched, or we're launching probably tomorrow or the next day, bim, bim, bim, bim, our e-commerce platform.

Welcome back to Season 4, Episode 4 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have John Laster, who's the founder and CEO of BLAP. Thanks for joining us today, John.

Bim, bim, bim, bim. Thanks for having me.

So I actually wanted to start this conversation by telling people how we met and about your business, because I thought your company was a joke.

Really? Oh, when I was on stage?

Yeah. So for context, John is the emcee at the Comedy Cellar, and he's strategic about the fact that he will integrate the fact that he's building a software company into his bit when he's on stage. Now, the problem was that he actually didn't make it sound like it was a real company. Because of the concept of it I was like all right like you could kind of make a joke out of this so I was like— I thought it was funny and then after I happened to be sitting in the front so we started talking and then you're like no this is like a real business and I was like dude you got to reframe your pitch on stage because there's no way people actually thought this was real yeah you know what and probably because yo we met a while ago so I didn't have that many jokes how'd you make it as the MC at The Cellar without that many jokes?

No I mean crowd work? No no no no no no I mean I didn't have that many jokes about startup. Oh, you know what I'm saying? So now that I have more jokes, like, if you— if I would have told another joke and another joke, you'd have been like, yo, this dude's serious, you know what I mean? But because back then I didn't have that many jokes about the startup, people sometimes were like, yo, is that real? Now everyone knows though. They can tell from the jokes that, you know, the newer jokes— as you've been doing it for a long time, you come up with more and more jokes. But now people can tell, yo, this dude's serious.

Also, if you walk on stage with a hoodie that says Blap on it, then it's like, all right, well, if he went this far—

that's an expensive-ass joke.

Yeah, right?

Making merch to tell a joke.

I actually kind of like that idea. That would probably hit with a few people.

Make a merch to tell a joke. So yeah, now people can definitely tell. But I know at first, yeah, if he was like, yo, is that, is that thing you were talking about real? I know, yo, the, uh, I did a TV spot and actually one of the producers, that was the first question she asked me. She was like, yo, is that real? And then her second question, does it work in LA? Um, so I was like, yeah, it works around the world, but that's funny. Yeah.

So you went from comedy to building a software company. I feel like that's not a common path.

No, absolutely not. But neither is the pandemic. So, you know what I mean? I was stuck in the house for a year and, uh, and wanting to do something to make some real change.

Can we talk about the comedy career thus far?

Oh yeah, yeah. Uh, the comedy career, I mean, I started out, man, uh, with people just staring at me on stage. You know, you're bombing every night. And I— you know what, it's funny because I was doing a show one night in Brooklyn and I go down in flames, right? I'm walking home past Fort Greene Park. It's, it is like as dark as outer space. And out of nowhere, a torrential downpour hits me right now. I remember there's like a bus stop like 5 feet away. And I remember thinking to myself, I don't even deserve to stand underneath the bus stop. I just got poured on. But I remember getting home and thinking to myself, yo, if that's the worst that could happen, I'm good.

Well, how old were you when you started comedy?

23.

And why?

I wanted to have a talk show. I wanted to be a talk show host, man. And everybody that I found out that was doing the shit that I wanted to do, they were all stand-up comedians first. So I was like, hey, I'll try my luck at stand-up. My sister had a couch for me here in New York. So I, yeah, after my basketball career, moved out here and started bombing.

Well, what's your creative process?

And with stand-up, mine— I mean, everyone's is different. Mine is I'm pretty much on stage talking about experiences or stories and feeling it out in real time, you know what I mean? So I do have friends, man, who like sit with a notebook and verbatim write every— I, I would feel so boxed in doing that. I, um, yeah, I'm, I'm someone who goes on stage and, and kind of vomits it out and then, and then, and then figures out what's funny about the truth. Because it, for me, it has to be rooted in truth. And then I, I'll, I'll keep turning up the funny from there.

Was there a moment in your early career where you were like, wait, I can actually like make money doing this? I feel I have so many friends who like aspire to do comedy one day who have notes and notes and notes in their phone of like jokes and they just can never like muster up the courage to actually go stand up there and get humiliated?

Yeah, man. I think I did a show years and years ago and I thought it had gone well. And I get off stage and my homie Rudy comes over to me and he points to his door guy and he said, yo, man, this is going to work out for you. Hey, man, give him some of my money. And the guy gave me $20. I went outside and started crying. And that was the first time. And actually, at that same show, there was a promoter there who was like, hey, I'm starting a new room, man. You'd be perfect for it, basically, because there's not going to be anybody there for a while. But he was like, I'll pay you. That's where he said, I'll give you $35 to come and do the show. So on the same night, someone gave me money and someone actually booked me for the first time. My buddy Ray Dijon, my buddy Rudy Rush, first guy to ever give me a dollar for doing comedy. And, uh, yeah, I was so emotional. And then, and then someone booked me. This guy Ray DeJean booked me for a show on that same show.

Okay, well, that was, that was the start of the momentum. But then you found yourself as the MC of arguably one of the most famous comedy, like, venues, arguably in the US, maybe even globally, ever.

Yeah.

How do you trip and fall into that scenario?

Yeah, you definitely don't trip and fall. That is rare air. But no, man, I mean, it's, it's, it's, um I don't know, it's like anything else, you just keep working at it. And eventually, you know, um, the truth of the matter is the Comedy Cellar— I know this is gonna— people are probably gonna be mad at me for this, but I was working at another club, Stand Up New York, up on the Upper West Side, and a new booker came in who wasn't booking me, right? So I'm heated about it, like, yo, what's going on here? And, um, and to kind of, you know what I mean, like to kind of find some money to cover that hole. That was really the— I know it sounds horrible, but I was like, yo, I gotta find something to plug that hole. So that's why I wanted to go to the Cellar. I didn't go down there like, oh my God, this— I was, I was just looking for something to supplement some of the spots that I wasn't getting from this new booker. I had no idea all of the ways the Comedy Cellar would change my life. And I didn't know, you know, I didn't I didn't quite see it as this shining, you know, club on the hill the way that a lot of people do, because I started on the hood circuit. So, you know, our idea of, I don't know, of what was like, ah, was a little different. So, um, but getting down there, it's the best thing that ever happened.

I also think it's underrated, the amount of experiences and like intangible skills that you gain from being a comedian to then go off and try and start a tech company.

Yeah, I, you know what, to be honest with you, I was a high school All-American basketball player. So, you know, stone's throw abilities from the NBA. And then of course comedy. I think that my abilities as a tech founder are not even in the same universe. I'm a trillion times better tech founder than I ever was a comedian or a basketball player. It's just not even close. And the reason being is because all of those lessons that you learn from basketball, it's almost like, you know, the saying, if I knew back then what I know now. So, you know, it's just rare that you get a whole nother career, you know what I mean? Uh-oh, my alarms are going off. That's how you know I'm truly a founder. So yeah, man, I think that all those lessons of making something out of nothing. Because when you start as a stand-up comedian or a ballplayer, you're nothing. You are on the lowest rung of the totem pole. So, so yeah, I know that, you know, brick by brick, you can become the dude.

Let's talk about— so I want you to give context to people listening on what it is that you're building now. And then I want to talk about how the pandemic kind of changed the trajectory of your life.

Yeah, for sure, man. Sitting in the house, man, and watching George Floyd get choked. George Floyd, 6'4", 215, same skin color, same haircut. Like, so watching this guy die was kind of like watching myself be choked to death in the street. You know what I mean? And I wanted to do some, make some change that was sustainable. So I created the, you know, an app that'll find you wherever you are in the world and put the Black-owned businesses around you on a Google map. And then we just launched Or we're launching probably tomorrow or the next day, bim, bim, bim, bim, our e-commerce platform. So now you—

By the time this episode's live, hopefully you're already printing cash from there.

It's already making money.

Yeah, it's already making money.

Yeah. I mean, so yeah, you can go on there now with your damn Apple Pay and buy something in the 30 seconds that I told you the e-commerce platform is up and I've watched someone do it. So yeah, it's working. So now we can sell everything from, from baby clothes to liquor, Black-owned baby clothes to liquor.

I want to talk through like the mental model that you were using when the George Floyd thing happened in terms of how that kind of sparked this curiosity or inspiration for you wanting to like shed light on a specific group of people and then how that manifested into what the business is today. Because I think there's probably a lot of people— I mean, I know there's a lot of people who felt a certain way about the George Floyd incident, but not necessarily did they take that energy and direct it into something that's as productive and potentially rewarding as what you're now building.

Yeah. You know the thing though, with the George Floyd thing though, I had been, so I was an economics major in college, so it wasn't like it just started then. You know what I mean? I was an economics major with an emphasis in poverty. So I studied that 20 years ago, way back in school where understanding the circulation of the dollar, understanding that that violence toward Black people was not random. It was when their dollars started coming together. You know, like the Tulsa situation where they actually used planes to bomb Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the Greenwood area district. And it was always the burning of the businesses. You know what I mean? Like, if you really understand any of American history, this isn't my feeling or whatever. You guys can Google this stuff. It was like, oh, that's the only way to get the car out of the ditch for Black folks. If you're going to keep having these incidents happen until you pool your money. And traditionally, we've not been able to get loans from banks. As a Black founder, I know now that venture is at least as bad as it was back in the day for us as Black founders getting money. I think we're down now for venture capital money to 0.4% and not only that, let me do you one better, Ben. 0.7% of that was in Q1 and Q2 when they were still hanging on to some of the George Floyd stuff. By the end of 2024, it was 0.1% in the third quarter and 0.2% in the fourth quarter. So it's going down, do you know what I mean? So if you're talking about founders working on an industry that gives you your first round of money, giving 0.4% and I'm being generous with that, right? Some of that is allocated to Black women founders. So let's be honest, venture capital might as well put a whites-only sign on the door. If you round up 0.4%, it's zero. I don't know how much, you know, and people can feel however they want to feel about— I know it's uncomfortable sometimes for white folks to hear, but they've eventually, you know, essentially told us your Black asses can't have any of this money. Go somewhere else. You know, I think it's an opportunity for us as Black founders to reimagine it. But 4/10 of 1% keep it, like I said, and some of that is allocated to Black women. So which means I'm looking, trying to find money in a fraction of 4/10 of 1%. That's, that's what, what we're up against as Black founders out here.

Why do you think that is?

I think that it's, it's, uh, It's— I was a history major, so it's been that way. This isn't new. This is, you are less human, you are less smart. I mean, it's the same reason that they said we can't let Black people play baseball. You're not smart enough. Can't let you play basketball. That was the ABA. So they let the white guys play in the NBA. Not really smart enough. You can't really coach. You can't— it's the same thing over and over. It's a story as old as time in this country. So yeah, I mean, like I said, Q3, 0.2%. And I think it was Q1, 0.1%. Q4, 0.2%.

What do you think has to change socially?

I think that we have to come to grips and stop sugarcoating the fact You know, stop being, you know, I go to these things where it's like VCs meet. It's like, dude, look at the numbers. These people are not going to give you any money. But I think if we were honest about it, there's a group of people who do not see you as worthy of this space. There's no way to get help for a problem without first identifying the problem and admitting the problem, not skirting around it so everyone feels comfortable. These people are not going to give you money. So then we got to find other ways to get money to these founders. There's going to have to be some sort of collectivism for us to get money. Blatt would not be alive if I was not who I am as a comedian. My phone book has allowed Blatt to stay alive. If I was a regular Black founder with the same amazing idea, not a shot in hell. Everyone doesn't have Chris Rock's number. Everyone doesn't have Tracy Morgan's number. Everyone doesn't have Tiffany Haddish's number. Mike Birbiglia's number. Those are some of my investors. Who, how the hell are you gonna get in touch with these people? Not gonna happen. You know what I mean? Black wealth is, I think around, I think white wealth is around 9x of that of Black founders. And I know it seems like a small number when you say 9, but imagine if we're playing basketball and your goal is 9 times the size of mine. That's what we're up against every morning.

Yeah, I think, I think if you go back one step, like your, your analogy around just like the network you've built from comedy, like I think there's from my perspective as a, as a white man, like there's an existential disadvantage that typically goes back to like your younger years in terms of like access and exposure. Yeah, right. Because like most founders who raise money have good networks. Take the color out of it, take the gender out of it. It's like oftentimes a network is the half the reason you're able to raise money because you go down this rabbit hole of like intro after intro. But the question then becomes like, how do you build this network? And that's where like the disconnect happens. Yeah, because I think it's oftentimes, in my opinion, just a scenario of like the rich gets richer because you're like all around each other and then you just continue to build. So like the thing I think about is, does that gap just continue to get wider because the same habits and behaviors are just happening over and over?

Yeah.

And then if like, what is like the breaking point or where is that moment in time or like something happens that allows it to be more of an even playing field?

Yeah, I think to your point about does it continue to be the same? Yeah. You know what I mean? The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over, looking for different results. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over and over. And trying to, you know, appease or pretend that, oh, I can do what you can do to raise money. We've got to end that. It wasn't you. You must understand that these folks have decided they are not going to give you money. So then what do we do about it? Then we can start— Black people are very, very creative and our allies. So then we can find other ways to do this. Mark Cuban was in a meeting on a stage the other day with these Black women and they were talking about that, you know, that women founders is 2% or something and Black women is, you know, some teeny tiny fraction of 0.4. And he was like, oh, just stop looking. People got just—

he stopped looking for money or venture, stopped looking for venture money.

Yeah. He said, he said, just give up. People were enraged. I was a little bit enraged, but I was like, you know what? I don't think there was any malice in it. I think he was just saying, hey, let's reimagine it, let's find other ways to do this, because it— he was acknowledging, yeah, you're right, you guys have access to none of these opportunities, so maybe we should reimagine it. I think if you keep doing the same thing, then you end up like you said, then, then you just, you just—

I actually will— I'll add one point, and like, I, I tend to agree with his perspective on that, and I'll tell you why. If there's one thing that I've learned from raising money myself is there's so groupthink that happens. There are so many investors I know who make amazing returns solely off of network and piggybacking off of other people. Right. So their whole thesis is like, I co-invest with these 10 Tier A funds.

Right, right.

Like I have a network or I have a social following. So when they get an allocation in a deal, like they give me a piece of it.

Right.

But when they think about it from like a risk-reward lens, it's like, do I want to be the one investor that's going against the grain, that's funding the 0.1% relative to just like the statistical, like, history that we have.

Right.

And the answer, to be honest with you, like, they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize returns. They don't want to be the person to like do what's different. And that's a problem.

But right. But I logically, that makes that— wait, wait, stay with me.

I'm listening. I'm all in.

Logically, I'm with you, bro. That makes sense. But let's be honest. The model for investors for what we do is most of them aren't going to work out.

100%. So it's like, what? So it's like 1 out of 10, right?

But I'm just saying, but I'm just saying, so you're saying why go off the— you're saying, well, well, maybe the reason is they don't want to go off the beaten path is because, you know, it's, it's dangerous. The whole thing is dangerous. So there's no way that that makes any logical sense. You're just, you're saying that most of the things that they do invest in already don't work out.

100%. But it's more so like their lens, in my opinion, is just like all probability. So in their eyes, they're like, is it a better deal for me to invest in the deal that has all the other hot investors and people around it, or the one that everyone's kind of like, I don't understand? And it's not to say that I'm agreeing with the way that is. I'm telling you that like, I think venture as an asset class is actually like way less educated than people think they are.

Oh, for sure.

But they're so— they're very good at networking and getting access to things.

Absolutely.

Dude, I have— I have friends who have companies that are very highly sought after that absolutely bully some investors, and it just shows their true colors where it's like they don't even want to do the diligence. They know that you had these other 5 people invest, so they just want a piece of your company. Yeah, it's not— I'm not like— I'm not going to make a sweeping generalization and say all of them are like that.

Right.

But I think to Mark Cuban's point, he's probably not wrong that instead of just continuing to try to do what's already not working, like reimagining and trying to recreate a way to do something, because you have enough data to know that's not the answer. So why are you just continuing to bang your head against the wall?

And that's what I think he was saying. I think that's what he— I think he was saying, hey man, we got to reimagine it, because how much, how much more of a hint do you need from these folks?

Is there any— I wonder if this exists— is there any, um, venture fund that exists that basically does like anonymous vetting and screening to whatever point you can?

I think that all of them, and don't get it, don't get me wrong, I don't think that a lot of these folks are sitting there in venture saying, I'm gonna make sure that we don't give any money to Black folks. I think that they find logical arguments like the one you just made. Well, it's not that, it's just, you know what I mean? It's almost like, like I said, with the NBA. Or with slavery. Well, I'm not really for slavery. I mean, it's just I don't want the Union to break up. You know what I mean? So you find something to feel good about yourself because there's no right way to do wrong. I don't have a problem with Black people playing. I just don't want them playing baseball because I think people won't show up. And then it'll be bad for the white players and the Black players. So just let them stay over there. I don't think they should play in the NBA because it's a really fast, heady game. You got to learn the plays. They're not really good enough to learn to play, so just let them, let them just do that. You know what I mean? There's always a way, some way to, to, to do some mental gymnastics for why, why we don't let them in to the, to the, to the game. And this game just happens to be, you know, venture and, uh, and, uh, and startups. But there's always a way to try to, oh, let's, let's call it this. I think that that's what they're doing. I don't know that all of these people are sitting there Maliciously. But if you look at the numbers and somebody really wanted to do something about it, you could do something about it with the same data and risk reward. You, I bet the numbers would come out the same. You know what I mean? I bet you that the numbers would come out the same because most of these things don't make it.

What would your advice be to another Black person that's like thinking about starting a company given that you've like, you've been through the wringer, you're, you're doing it, you're doing the thing like. You've raised money, you're always trying to raise money, you're always building. But like, I guess as a first-time founder, and I can say this myself as well, there's a lot of things that you can't know or learn until you just do it.

Yeah.

And what would be your advice to maybe some other Black people that are thinking about starting a business?

My advice to, um, other Black founders coming behind me that, that are wanting to start a tech startup would be, um, Keep your day job. No, I'm just kidding. Quit while you're ahead. Keep your goddamn money in your pocket. No, I'm just kidding. No, I mean, Black people are resilient, man. We always find a way to make it happen. I mean, the examples I gave you, baseball, basketball, NASA, wherever you're talking about, you know what I mean? Barack Obama, do you know what I mean? All the way to the presidency. We will find a way. but there are some times where you're like, oh, okay, we, we, we see where the barrier is. Let's reimagine. Let's use our amazing creativity, um, to do something else, to find a way for this to work out. But first you gotta identify the problem and, and not skirt around what's going on. 'Cause I'm here to tell you what's going on and we just have to reimagine how we, uh, how we get money to, folks that come behind me. And I would encourage you to do it. It's a very rewarding experience.

Let's talk about the journey you've been on building, building Blap. I think we've obviously caught up every couple of months or so, and I, I founder to founder, it's like, yeah, I got hit in the face 10 times this week, but like, I'm still, I'm still here to talk about it. Like, what, what would you say have been the most surprising moments on your journey so far?

Most surprising moments so far, man. I think, to be honest with you, bro, is how supportive people are. Most people are just really, really good people. So when people come in contact with Black Man, they're like, oh man, this is amazing. I know somebody I can call to help. And I think that's been the most surprising thing, that you think that there's going to be this big moment and everything take— and it's not, right? It's not, bro. It's just a day to day to day to day building. I used to run, man. I used to live in Fort Greene at the top of Fort Greene Park. After the towers had been knocked down, they were building One World Trade Center. And I could see the tower when I, on my jog, I would get to the top of the park and I would look over there every day. And you couldn't see any progress being made. It just looked like the building was stuck in the same position forever. And I remember watching a documentary one night and it was talking about the tower being built and that there were something like 280 or 290 people in there working on this building every single day, almost around the clock. And I'm thinking to myself, but I run up there and I can't see any of that, you know? And it's just like a startup. The growth is imperceptible. You have to pull back maybe 4 months. If I only ran up there every 4 months, I'd be like, wow, this building's really coming together. But on a daily basis, you don't see it and you're not going to see it. You know what I mean? You have to love what you're doing. Otherwise that shit ain't going to work out. So I think the, I don't know, the most gratifying things, man, are one that I love it. And then hearing from some of the merchants, you know, hearing from them saying, hey, I sold something or, oh my God, this is working out. Guy stopped me at the cellar one time. And chasing me up the steps. And he was like, hey, if you know anyone that works at that company, you tell them I said thank you. He pointed at the logo on my— and I— he was— no, no, bro, he's drunk. I don't care, right? And I— no, I did. I was like, okay, this dude's drunk.

He doesn't know what drunk words are. Sober thoughts?

No, but I didn't, bro. First of all, we're talking about 2 years ago, so I was like, he doesn't even know what this is, you know? Okay, so I kind of brush him off, and then he gets mad. He said, no, no, no, no, I'm serious, man. He said, hey man, if you know anyone that works at that app. And when he said app, I was like, wait a minute, this guy does know what he's talking about. He said, man, you tell him. I said, thank you. So then I had to come clean. I said, hey man, it's my app. You know, he gets choked up, pulls out his wallet. I gotta give you something. He said, yo man. And I was like, yo, why you getting choked up? He said, yo, I was closing up my law office. Somebody had found me. On your app, gave me a $5,000 a month retainer for the next 3 years. And he said, yo man, you know, I know $5,000 a month might not be that much to you, but to me and my family it meant everything. And I was like, you know what I'm saying? The managers are behind me about to cry. But those types of stories get you up in the morning.

Wait, that person found him through Blap? Wow.

Yeah. Comes in the office and he said, it's helping other people, man. You gotta keep this going.

You know, was that the Rustic Tavern story?

No, no, no, no. That was, yeah, that, that dude was a lawyer in Fort Worth.

That's crazy.

I know. But you, you don't realize it. I talked to a farmer, man, the other day, man. I get on, he said he heard about the investment opportunity. I'm, I'm currently right now closing my friends and family round. So he was like, hey, I wanna put some money in. Before this thing takes off. And I was like, hey man, you only got until, you know, May 1st or something, I'll be done with this. So the guy tells me, man, that some people found his store and his farms right next to it where he sells fresh produce on the app. And he said, yo man, this— I have friends in Indiana and Georgia who've also had people come to their spaces because they found, found them on the app. And he said, yo, man, we started a prayer group for you last year. And I was just like, you know, he was like, man, you got to keep this going. You don't understand what it's doing for us. This is exactly what we need, man. We started praying for you. So it's, it's, he said, it's kind of a pinch your skin moment to be talking to you like this now. And I was just like, but those stories, they get your ass up in the morning.

I want to know. I'm not kidding. I want to hear more of these.

Yeah. Even when things aren't going good. I was sitting outside the cellar. They have this little outdoor area thing now. And, uh, and this girl comes out and she said, hey, aren't you— and I was like, oh yeah, thank you, you know, you enjoyed the show. And she's like, no, aren't you the Blap guy?

Yeah, you thought you were funny. You thought you were a big comedian, or no?

I thought I was a big comedian. I was like, I thought I was kind of funny out here. And she said, no, you know, I was here a few weeks ago and, and you were talking about the app, and I downloaded the app. And she said, I found this really cute brand new Black-owned coffee shop by my house. And she said, me and 6 of my girlfriends meet there every morning now. And I was just like, you know, because that's what it was. That's what it's all about. I was like, oh man, it's working. And now the e-commerce people are starting to call me.

Okay, so here's, here's my question for you, the marketing mind. How many people know about these stories you just told me?

Ah, Probably not many. Yeah, they're so—

yo, those are the stories that are going to get you people to download the app, dude.

They're so emotional that I rarely tell people, but they do get me up in the morning.

It's not about getting you up. Respectfully, I'm glad that you get up in the morning from this, but this is about trying to get everyone else— like, talk about getting on an investor call. Like, how do you, how do you tell an like you need to show an investor why it matters. How do you do that? Just literally say, sit here and watch this 3-minute video, and you should have like a sit-down style conversation with these people talking about these experiences.

Yeah, yeah, it was crazy, man. Yeah, the, the, the damn lawyer guy, we like— I rushed him back down the steps because we were so choked up. Me and, me and Val, the manager at the Comedy Cellar, she was like, did you hear that? I was like, yeah, that's why I told him to get the fuck away from me.

No, you have not working. I'm serious though. You have to, you actually have to turn those moments into stories. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah. But I mean, those types of stories, you know, obviously I get more and more of them, but those are the ones that are like, oh, that's right. This is, this is working.

Because this is all at the end of the day, like what you're building, it needs to be storytelling. Like you're trying to shed light on an underprivileged population and like amplify their businesses. Like, if you want my unsolicited advice, like your business becomes successful at like a massive scale when you're a media company that actually has an app, not an app that has a media arm.

Yeah. You know what, bro? That's what we were talking about when we walked in here. That's why I said, man, you're killing it. It's so funny because when I go home tonight, I just brought this green screen to start my, you know, get the YouTube and all of that popping. I wanted to wait until the tech was right. Some of the best advice given to me, one of our, one of my business partners, Ikram. Ikram created Venmo, but he was the one who was like, bro, do the daily grunt work and then get to that later. He said, you'll have those phone numbers in your phone, Jon, when you get the tech right. So yeah, I spent a lot of time, the bugs, all the bullshit that we got every day. There's something, a fire to put out. But I think we're there now. People that have been on the app and they're like, oh, this is great. Visually, there's a ton of changes that we're going to make. But the actual functioning of the thing is, I think we got it.

And then right when you think you got it, you realize that you're still—

you're going to get a text on the way out of here.

Yeah, exactly. You're still at the beginning. Yeah, I guess you made a comment earlier and I'm curious, like knowing that this game is kind of— it's endless, right? There's levels to the game. Look at the biggest companies in the world. Like when you think you made it, you're still trying to push a new boundary. Absolutely. Like what? Do you have any habits or routines in your life to force yourself to like actually take a step back and think about some of the progress you made? Because I admittedly, I struggle with this. It's— I've always come from the lens in the context of business building from like what could be better, not like, damn, that's actually kind of dope what you've done. Like, you should be proud of it.

You know what? I don't. I wish I could sit here and lie and bullshit you and be like, oh yeah, man, I'd sit back and smell it. I don't. I'm not really cut from that cloth. And I know that I should because I can hear people that truly care about me recently in particular saying, hey, take a break. You know, this is going good. And I'm like, oh, there's Juneteenth. You know, I got to get ready for that. And they were like, okay, well, take a break after Juneteenth. But I know me, my brain after or during Juneteenth, my eyes will go to Christmas. I got to get ready for Christmas. You know, so yeah, I definitely need to do better. You know what? And I bet, to be flagrantly honest, it would be better for our companies. You know what I mean? If we did a little more taking care of our damn selves. But I ain't gonna lie, I'm not gonna sit here and bullshit you. I'm terrible at it.

I'm telling you it's true, but it's the scariest thing ever. So my roommate who has a company, like, he moved here from a different country, didn't really know anyone, like, had to get a visa. English isn't his first language. All the things. Was in like this crazy mode of stress, uh, building his business. And he went to this founder's retreat, um, I think it was in Costa Rica, met like a bunch of other founders, basically walked away from that like way more into the whole concept of mindfulness. And like, yeah, you can argue some of it might be woo-woo and whatever, but it was more this concept of like being in tune with himself and like setting boundaries. Dude, he doubled his business the next month. Doubled.

Yes.

And I was like, there's no way this is real. And he was like, dude, look, always real. He's like, look at the numbers. I actually doubled my business.

It's got to be. I'm telling you, I think that it would be. And, and that is the— unfortunately, that's the part that's attractive to me, which is that I would double the business.

Yeah, but then, but then right when you go to do it, you're like, oh, it's too scary. Like, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do that.

I'm gonna have to do it. There are places though that I gotta admit from from what I do where things slow down a little bit. And then I'll justify in my head like, oh yeah, that was my vacation. So for example, I'm doing the Comedy Cellar Vegas in June.

I didn't know they had a Vegas location. Same owners?

Yeah. In Rio, at the Rio in Vegas. So I think that's June or July. I'll be out there, right? And I will justify in my head because NBA Summer League's going on, I'm at the games during the day, I'm not in New York City. I'll say, oh, that was my vacation. It's not really vacation. It really needs to be what you were saying your boy did. And I know that that shit would be good for business, but I just, I would be lying if I said that I take breaks. I'm up at 7 in the morning, man. I work minimum 12 hours a day and then I go get on stage. Yeah, I know that's not good.

Do you love what you do though?

Oh, it's the best, man. Like I said, it's those stories that fuel you. You know what I mean? I had somebody call me the other day and she said, yeah, you know, I've got this email list and I have a Shopify site and this, that, the other. And she said, but these orders that have been coming in from Black are the first time they're coming from parts of the country. I know that none of those people are on my mailing list. I know none of these people are my friends. This isn't like a Christmas thing where everybody buys my— she said, I finally feel like I'm in business. And that's like, oh my God. So those stories, yeah, man, they fuel you. So, you know, I mean, that gets me up, but it probably would do good to check out too, to find myself someplace where I was like, hey, I'm going to hand this off to somebody else for at least 2 or 3 days to recharge. It's got to be good for business, but I just— I'd be lying to you if I said I do that. I don't.

Something else I want to talk about is just the concept of relationship building. I think you are in a unique spot because you've been exposed. We've talked about it briefly, but you've built relationships with some people that, uh, a lot would dream to, to build relationships with, and you've been around some really cool people. And I'm curious to know, like, how you think about, like, managing your network, especially, like, in the context of comedy that then, like, transitions into, like, business, and, like, where that line is. Like, what— I, I'd be curious to just understand your lens on that.

I mean, it's a fine line because even though people are your friends from one, you know, one line of business from comedy doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to take that leap of faith to, you know, fortunately, the people who, who've invested with me, they're like, this dude works hard. So I'm banking on you, John, being able to execute this thing. But it's really just that. And then, you know, you also have to be careful. You got relationships with you. You don't want to rock the boat with some startup that goes up in flames, you know what I mean? And now they're pissed off at you about the whole nine. So yeah, you got to be careful. But it's like, I mean, my friends happen to be— some of my friends happen to be celebrities, but it would be no different with your regular friends. Anyone who's your friend, that's it. It's a dance. But yeah, and some people are going to say, yeah, I'm in. And some people are going to be like, I don't know about that.

Do you have any mentors?

Oh, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Ikram was definitively my first mentor. He's also obviously an investor, a partner in Blap, who created, Ikram created Venmo. You know, some of the best advice ever given to me, man, was from Tracy Morgan. I don't mean to name drop, but I need to give him credit. He's like my big brother. So years ago, Trey told me, you know, we was, out kicking it. And he said, yo, don't never listen to a motherfucker. Don't never listen to a motherfucker tell you how to get something they don't got. And I kept that in my comedy with Blap, with everything. So why are you sitting here talking to comedians about how to build a household name tech startup? You better be talking to somebody who built a household name tech startup. So yeah, Ikram was paramount, man. Instrumental, man, in my early goings with Blap. And then I met You know, two more of my mentors, Song and Dave, who have an app called Squire, which is a Black-owned barbershop app.

Yeah, I know. They fucking crush it.

They are crushing it.

Oh, they're like next level. Yes.

But I go to brunch with Song all the time, Ikram, you know, to pick their brain. Hey, I'm stuck with it. And then they help me get the car out of the ditch because I, you know, know so little. My guy for Rod, who created Tubi. I've been bothering Farad quite a bit lately. So thank you, Farad. Thank you, Song, Dave. Thank you, Ikram. Yeah, so those are the guys I go to. I have a friend out on the West Coast too. And she's been super, super helpful. My friend, Annalisa, who has a company called Catch and Release that grabs images from the internet and marries them with companies. They do the licensing and all of that.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's great. You know, all those like, you know, damn shots of stuff that went viral and then companies want to use them for their, for their marketing and their advertising. She runs that company. So she's, she's also someone that I, I bounce stuff off of. But yeah, my boy Sean, man, I got a guy down at the, that used to be at the Navy Yard. He was with New Labs, him and him and my boy David down there. So yeah, I got some, some good people around me. I— you have to.

What about on the comedy side? I think— I don't know if we've actually talked about this, but I'm a huge comedy nerd. Like, I go— I would say I go to probably 1 or 2 live shows per month with my girlfriend. I've seen like most of the big names live at least once.

Yeah.

And I'm curious to know from someone who's actually in the game, I have no intention of ever standing up on a stage. I just think my perspective on it is that comedians are some of the most intellectual people in the world.

Oh yeah.

And I think that— I don't think that actually gets talked about enough.

Oh yeah.

For people, the crowd work, and then also to be able to draw on current events and like tell that story in a way that's like funny and appealing. Yeah, I'm so fascinated by it.

Yeah. I mean, I think that like mentorship in terms of standup you're always— I mean, I have always tried to be in, in contact with people who are way ahead of me, and I've been blessed to, to work with some of the greats, you know what I mean? Like I said, I mean, who do you put—

who do you put on the, the top of the pedestal in the comedy game, either like your whole life, or who do you think is the hottest comedian in current day right now?

I mean, you gotta— Chappelle's the, the hottest guy for sure. Tracy's killing it. He's got, I think Trey may have two possible TV shows coming out. He's got Crutch, he's got another TV show. Yeah, Chappelle is doing what he's doing. Bill Burr's always doing what he's doing. Yeah, man, I think those guys right now are kind of the top of the food chain. Yeah. And I'm cool with Dave Chappelle. We're not in any— I don't have his number. We're not cool like that. But I do get to have conversations with, like I said, some of the greats, with the Chris Rocks of the world, with Tracys, with Bill Burr. We spar about some of the stuff that's going on in the news when he's down at the Cellar. I mean, the Comedy Cellar is the Yankee Stadium. I think people would be hard pressed to say now that the Comedy Cellar is not the greatest comedy institution in the history of the world, you know what I mean? No one's ever had that many shows running 7 nights a week, completely sold out, for this stretch of time. It's, it's, it's uncharted. It's—

they'll be talking about it was 7 nights a week.

7 nights.

How many nights a week are you over there? 8.

I'm there, I feel like, 8 nights a week, bro. Uh, but I'm there probably 5, and I'll probably have to scale that back. You know, once we really start to solidify this e-commerce platform, it'll probably go back to 3.

So the name of the podcast is Turning Pro. I don't know if you've ever listened to an episode, and if not, it's going to be okay. I always love to talk to founders on their journey. Like looking back, were there any moments or things that happened where you're like, damn, I'm playing a different game now, or you just feel like you brought things to a whole new level?

I think this e-commerce platform, you know what I mean? Because when you say turning pro, it's perfectly analogous to when does the money come in? And the first time that we ever made money is probably like, I don't know, man, like maybe 3 months ago. And it's crazy because again, going back to what we were talking about, In the beginning, if I knew back then what I know now, the first time I did a film and got a trailer, um, I was so happy. Like, I'm bouncing off the walls in this trailer. We get on the— the— and I still got on the train to go back home. We were shooting in Long Island. Me and another girl, was her first time in a trailer, so we're sitting next to each other on this Long Island Railroad train on our way back to Brooklyn, like, yo, can you believe we got a trailer? She shows me this video of her videotaping herself in her trailer going crazy. She's in tears. I was like, why didn't I record myself? If I knew back then what I knew now, I order a package. The first package shows up on my doorstep from Blap. And I thought back to that. I'm not going to miss this. I'm going to record myself opening the door and getting this goddamn package. And that's when I turned pro. Got my first package and I got it on video for the rest of my life of me, you know, going down there and actually seeing the package on the front stoop. Because, you know, you get the alert in the phone, your package is delivered. I was like, yo, I'm going to record this this time. I'm not going to miss it this time. And I've got it. But that was the day that I felt like, uh-oh, we've turned pro now.

Yeah.

You know, when I can get, you know, when, when I can order a package in my app that landed on my goddamn doorstep in Brooklyn. The game done changed. Yeah. Yesterday's price, not today's price. Wow.

I honestly got chills hearing you say that because I'm like thinking back to like the first time when we launched our product and it's like someone downloaded and used it and we didn't have to like do anything and it actually worked. You're like, holy shit, it's like magic.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was a moment, man. And fortunately, like I said, I was smart enough after making the mistake you know, in the entertainment business to be like, oh yeah, I'm— it was so cool to see her in that trailer like going crazy. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh, make sure that I have this. So I've got it now. But yeah, that was the first package. You know what's crazy? I still didn't even open it.

What, it's just sitting in there?

It's just sitting in the box.

You should frame— you should just frame the box. Yeah, you can open it when you sell the company, bro. I— yeah, you know what, you know what, whoever buys the company, you give them the box. Dude, you say, here you go, here's the first purchase. I like that.

Yes, bro. Yo, bro, I didn't even open it. It's still in the damn box. It's a cup.

A cup?

Yeah, it's a Blap mug. Yeah, it's a Blap mug with— I didn't even open the damn box. I was so, I was so bouncing off the wall. It's still in the damn box. I mean, there's all types of shit that I've ordered since then on Blap that's in my house, but I didn't even open that box. But I think that was the day, man. That we turned pro, that I felt like, uh-oh, you know, now there's money coming in. Now we're running a business that can become profitable.

John, I appreciate you coming on today.

Thanks for having me, brother. Always a pleasure.

Look at that camera. Let people know where they can find you, what you're working on.

At He Was Funny. And we are working on a Black Amazon. So come check us.

And download Blap.

Download Blap.

That's the first thing you got to say.

Download Blap. Yes. Get the goddamn app and find something to buy. Don't get in the game with us. Um, so yeah, man, uh, @HeWasFunny, hit me on Instagram, please.

Cool.

And you know what, Blap the app, you could also do that too on, uh, on IG on our Blap page, uh, Blap the app. But yeah, definitely download the app, find something to buy, get in the game.

Awesome.