#086: From Burnout to a 1,600-Person Movement: How Chad Cohen Is Redefining Entrepreneurship

Each Friday, like my best mate Josh, we would run the same route in Sydney, which was like across the Harbour Bridge, around the Opera House and back. And one of my staff members, a couple of weeks into like doing these trainings, Josh and I started getting competitive. And one of my staff members in the Fordham office turned around to me and said, like, Chad, drop your ego. You're sweating at your desk. It's 10 a.m. Like, what are we doing? Just invite mates, like, have fun on a Friday. It'll be a beautiful way to like end the week. And I did. I put it out on my story and I was like, who wants to come for a run on Friday? We do a 6.5K run, like, come for a run. And back then I think I had probably like 3,000 followers. It was nothing. But I landed up with like 20 or 30 people that just showed up and then it became 60, 120, 240, 480. And within like the space of 6 months, we were 1,600 people running that route on a Friday morning. And that's when Unofficial Run Club started.

Welcome back to Season 4, Episode 9 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have Chad Cohen, who's the founder of Fordham Media. Thanks for joining today, Chad. Thank you for having me today. I appreciate you pushing through to come on the show.

Thank you, my man. Yeah, as I said before, obviously woke up this morning feeling like a train had hit me post London Marathon, but I didn't want to turn down the opportunity and really appreciate what you're building, so I wanted to be here. Thankful to be here.

For people listening, Chad comes in, he's like, yeah, you know, I was running the marathon and I was yelling to all my mates and FaceTiming all my, you know, all my friends, and I ran a 3:07. It's like, there's people who train their whole life who never come close to that, and then you're like, I exerted like an additional, what, 1,000 calories? Just in the process of enjoying the moment?

Yeah, man. Um, no, honestly, running's like a crazy thing. Um, one of my, yeah, really early coaches— I mean, I've only been running for a year and a half, which is ridiculous. Yeah, I picked up running just before New York Marathon a year and a half ago.

Wait, but what about the Run Club?

Yeah, that's also— the Run Club's only been going for less, uh, a September a year and a half ago. Yeah, so, um, yeah, running's a crazy thing. I think like for me it's consistency over everything, and we've discussed this kind of before, and I think, yeah, in life it's just about showing up every single day to do the thing. And then, yeah, if you do the work, you can come out with a 3:07 and still have fun. So my coach just said, you'll never— if you— whatever energy you give out to the course, you'll get that energy back in return. So I actually put that to the test this time because I wasn't necessarily racing for a time, and I was like, I wonder if I give all my energy to everyone out on the course and gee up everyone, you know, all the runners, so that they have a good time, I can have a good time too. And it's definitely true.

That's amazing. I actually did not know what got you into running. Like, you waited till a year and a half ago. You must have woke up one day, you're like, all right, I'm ready.

Um, no, I was actually going through like quite a tough, um, time about 2 years ago mentally. 2 and a half, 3 years ago. Um, just like I was struggling with business and really mental health, to be honest. Like, relationship side, business was really hard. Like, building something, as you know, is not easy. Um, there's the most outrageous highs when— whether it's like bring you on an employee that you've wanted to work with you for like 2, 3 years, or there's the high of the biggest deal you've ever got and the biggest project you've ever got. And then there's the low of whatever money you made yesterday, you lose the next day, or something doesn't go to plan with the biggest client you have and then you lose the client. So I was going through a really challenging time of highs and lows that I'd never experienced before. Everyone was asking me if I was okay. I was a bit— I was in a bit of a hole, and I didn't want to believe that because I've always been— I was always the happy kid. And, um, so I— my dad, actually, my dad's a doctor. He recommended I see a psychologist. Excuse me, I'm about to sneeze. Um, and I met with this guy and he said to me, he goes, I know people like you. Well, I met with a whole bunch of psychologists and they kept telling me, you need to take a break, you need to take a break. And I'm like, there's no ways I can take a break. Like, you just don't understand me. And eventually I met this guy, his name's Hamada, and he's been amazing. I've been seeing him ever since, like, for for the last like 2 years, maybe even a little bit longer now. And he turned around to me and he goes— I know, after like a session, he goes, I know people like you, you don't need a break. You need someone like me to help you get to the point where you can take a break. And I was like, ah, you get me. Wow. And that was a massive thing for me.

That's powerful.

That was a massive thing for me. And then we had a couple sessions and he turned around to me and he said, I think I know What can help you here? And I was like, okay, tell me, like, what do you think? He goes, where's your favorite city in the world? And I was like, well, it depends on what for, but I really feel electric when I'm in New York City, and which is obviously where we are at the moment. And he goes, all right, great. Well, you need to do something really hard for yourself that no one else can do for you. So I'm gonna get you a ticket to New York Marathon. And that's where it started. And I just trained for 6 months to do the New York Marathon where no one else could do the thing for me because What I was finding was like, no matter how hard I was working at work, there were still these pressures that were out of my control and it was really pulling me back and I was struggling to deal with the highs and the lows. But he gave me the stability through consistency and training to get to the point where like, no matter what happened, if I did a run or if I didn't do a run, it was my fault. And if I got the result that I wanted or I didn't, it was my fault. And so it was a layer of accountability that with my personality that I really respect and flourish in. And that was the start of my own journey. So trained and then um, that was probably like July when I made that decision to run my first marathon that, um, November, 3rd of November, 2023. And 2020, yeah, 20— yeah, 2023. And it was through running.

I'm looking, I— it's so bad, I don't remember if I ran it in '23 or '20, '22. I'm literally looking right now.

There's a, um, yeah, photo, I'm sure.

That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the date.

There we go. We're about to find out if we ran this.

'22.

'22.

November 6th, '22.

The year before me. So, um, yeah, I just, um, trained for that. And then each Friday, like, my best mate Josh, we would run the same route in Sydney, which was like across the Harbour Bridge, around the Opera House, and back. And one of my staff members, a couple weeks into like doing these trainings, Josh and I started getting competitive and one of my staff members in the Fordham office turned around to me and said, like, Chad, drop your ego. You're sweating at your desk. It's 10 a.m. Like, what are we doing? Just invite mates. Like, have fun on a Friday. It'll be a beautiful way to, like, end the week. And I did. I put it out on my story and I was like, who wants to come for a run on Friday? We do a 6.5K run. Like, come for a run. And back then I think I had probably like 3,000 followers. It was nothing. But I landed up with like 20 or 30 people that just showed up. And then it became 60, 120, 240, 480. And within like the space of 6 months, we were 1,600 people running that route on a Friday morning. And that's when Unofficial Run Club started. So it was— we didn't create it to like start a run club. It's literally a couple of us were at that point, there became 5 of us who were running it really regularly, the 5 co-founders of Unofficial. Um, and it just became a thing. And yeah, ever since we've just been building a community.

Wow. How, how is your relationship— first of all, that's super powerful, so I appreciate you sharing that. Um, but how has your relationship with running evolved from when you get into it as kind of like this outlet when things are tough, to then if you're in a place where things are going well or better? I mean, it's all relative, but in a place where you feel like maybe you're not feeling the way you were with how running solved that problem, like, how has your relationship changed with it? And I think I'll give you one anecdote in terms of why I'm asking this question. Uh, I don't know if you meditate or not, but like one of the biggest things about meditation is like people who feel like they need to meditate, start meditating, and then they feel better a week later, so like, I don't need this anymore, and then they stop.

Yeah.

How, how do you feel your relationship has changed with running ever since you've kind of battled through your own personal journey?

I think the big thing with anything in life, and I mentioned this before, is consistency. Like, I don't think you get the best out of anything if you don't consistently show up, whether that's business, personal, meditation, run, whatever it is. And I think to answer your question more sharply, it's around like when I was working through some stuff— I'm forever working through something. Like, I'm deeply curious about self-awareness and I guess the world around me, and I think there's always something to be learning and growing in. And so even though it might not be a personal, like, atrocity or challenge that I have, there is something else that I'm trying to explore and experience. So run still gives me that opportunity. So for example, when I was running to get through a challenging point in my life, um, and each run allowed me to, like, get out of my head and stop overthinking things, etc., it was like I always often am caught saying that running sets me free, like it gives me this mental clarity almost as if meditation does. And I do both. Um, but when it's— there's something that's not overtly challenging, run does give me that moment of silence, that moment of just like I'm not thinking about anything. Or I can be thinking about a hell of a lot of things, but the hell of a lot of things aren't just the day-to-day rumination around like what's going wrong. It could be like high-level strategic thinking about the business, or my relationships or my family or what I'm doing in the community or, um, really cool ideas for collaborations with the Run Club. And it's really a space that I feel creative. And I think meditation similarly, often people will be like, no, when I sit down to meditate, I'm thinking about a million things. I don't think many people in this world can get to the point where you sit down and meditate and you think about absolutely nothing. There definitely are people that can, but I don't—

there's people, there's people who can, there's people who lie about it and say that they can.

Exactly. And I think the meditation standpoint, it's the same. Like if you're, if you're in a position that you can sit down and meditate and think about less than you do and ruminate about less than you do in your day-to-day life when you're sitting at your desk, you're trying to work through things, then it's doing something positive for your brain, your mind, your state. And yes, I think it's just like it might be different, but my relationship at different periods based on what's going on in my life. But I think knowing that I can consistently show up and do the work is a positive step for myself personally. And then inadvertently, I think I can show up as a better person for both work, friends, culture, my family, etc.

I think for me, because I had a phase in my life where I was like into the running at like a more aggressive level when I was training for the marathon, I think something that it helped me with was just like learning how to be, right? Because I'm also someone— I think we're very similar in a lot of ways, but it's like my brain moves a million miles a minute It's always about how do you get to the next rung on the ladder? You're never satisfied. And I started running without headphones.

Yeah.

Do you, do you wear headphones when you run?

So I don't wear headphones when I run anymore. I like— and that's not like a blanket rule. Every now and then I will put them in if I feel like it, but I definitely feel the benefits of running from a mental and physical standpoint better when I'm not running with headphones. So I agree with you.

My— so what? Because my therapist was also the one who actually pushed me to not wear headphones when I was running. And the way that she described it to me was basically that your life is designed in a way where it's like one big distraction, right? So like you're either talking to people in person, you're either on calls or you're texting people, and there's really nothing in your life that you do where you're forcing yourself to be with just you. Yeah, because the personality— I can seek out chaos no matter what situation I'm in, right? Like, I think it's a blessing and a curse. It's a superpower. It's what allows us to be entrepreneurs and whatever. But it's also the thing that can really like actually weigh you down. So she posed the idea of like, what if running is the one thing that you do where you really just are like alone by yourself? Um, and I really remember like the clarity and the peace that you get from doing it. But for me it was weird because then I, I don't even, I don't think I told you this, but then I started training for a second marathon, uh, with a coach to like break a time, and I really hurt my hip, um, and then I kind of just like veered away from it, uh, and then like picked up boxing as like my new latest obsession, uh. So I think my perspective on it from a physical fitness perspective is like, if you have something that you're do— as long as you're striving towards some goal, it's okay if you're like changing what that is. But I find that it gives me like balance and grounds me knowing that it's I'm not someone that's just like running out there with no purpose or like path, because I think that feedback loop is really important. And that can be whatever you decide it should be, uh, but I think it keeps you on track versus like I'm just doing it just to say that I'm doing it.

Absolutely. I mean, I— yeah, I literally, I said to my run coach, because we've got a couple of races on at the moment, I'm like, as long as it's in the— as long as it's in the app and on the thing, I'm doing it. And it's not even a matter of like I don't want to do it, like, because I know that I have a goal or there's a reason for me to be running. Like, I love, I love knowing that I'm progressing towards things. And I think that's why I mentioned before, like, the consistency in what you do. I really don't think you can see the, the benefit or value in anything in life if you aren't consistently showing up. And so whether it be in running or it be in boxing or it be in business, I don't think you can experience this, the things to celebrate, or experience the learnings from the challenges if you don't go through multiple of them. And I think that's like the beautiful thing in life. And I think the best players in the entrepreneurship game, the sports game, all that sort of stuff, everyone's got trials and tribulations. It's the ones that get through them and then utilize the information that they receive on the way and actually absorb that, get the best benefit from it, and then can learn and exponentially grow. So I don't think it necessarily matters what you're doing, but I do definitely agree with you that the purpose behind what you choose to do should definitely be there to allow you to remain, to be consistent.

How do you think about, uh, the dichotomy of like patience and urgency as it relates to consistency?

Yeah, I mean, that's it. It's a good question. I think like patience and urgency and consistency, I think like some things, you know, if you're 100— I don't know what it is in pounds, but let's say you're 150 kilos, let's call it 100 kilos, and you want to get to 70, that's probably easier with the numbers. I don't know if you know, that— well, it was what, 100 kilos? And you want to get to 70 kilos, you want to lose 30 kilos, whatever it is.

Sounds like a lot.

It's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot of weight, right? Um, I think like it's very easy to go from heavily overweight to losing 10% of your body fat, but it's even harder when you're, you know, you want to get very lean but you're already quite lean. And so the urgency to make change versus the patience— I think playing the long game is always advantageous. I think The risk versus reward phenomenon is obviously always present too. It's like, how much are you willing to risk right now in order to get a much larger reward down the track, which you are very aware of. But for me, I always try play the patience game. Like I often, a lot of the work that I do on myself is to realize that like at the end of the day, like I am only 30 years old and most of my mentors and friends are 20 years older than me, or not necessarily my friends, but a lot of the people that I look up to are 20 years ahead of me. And I'm looking at their lives and I'm like, how are they doing this? But like, they've shown up for 20 more years than I have. And so you actually zoom out and you're like, hey, I'm actually doing a good job. And so in the moment, that urgency of being at the place that I want to be is like really hard to handle and sometimes can lead me to have that really negative mindset of like, why am I not there yet? But when you actually zoom out and you view it from the lens of patience and then yet again, consistency and showing up, like, I think the long-term reward, if you sit in a room and I'm sure you've experienced this, like I sit in the room with a lot of my mentors and they turn around to me and they're like, oh, Chad, you're doing a lot better than I was doing when I was 30 years old. And like, it's true, but you just don't want to believe it because you don't see that value in like showing up for another 20 years until you do.

It's so frustrating for me because it's like I'm self-aware of what you just said and I acknowledge what you just said and I talk about it a lot. Yet like at my core I still can't truly get myself to like believe it because something about like that complacency feels like the second you actually believe it and are complacent is like the second you're scared that you'll never actually get there.

100.

It's like a sick and twisted mind game.

100 more. Like, I think I was literally talking about it with one of the guys with me, uh, who's in New York this morning, and, um, I said to him, I was like, I'm scared to actually zoom out and give myself a pat on the back and be like, you're doing great, because I know I can do so much more. And the second I literally said, I was like, if I actually wholeheartedly believe that, I'd probably be fat in an apartment somewhere in New York eating ice cream, watching TV, because like I would have no motivation to do anything else because I get a lot of my motivation from knowing what I'm capable of doing and constantly searching to be able to get there. But the second I just acknowledge that I've done it, I'd feel like I'm done. Like there's no reason to live. Like and not live as— yeah, yeah, no, it's like I live for the journey. Like, I live— I like, I love where, where I'm going and I love the destination, but I do really live for the journey. Like, I love waking up and having a purpose or the ability and the ambition to try and do something better today. And I think if I got to the point where I was like, I can't do any better, like, I don't know what I'd wake up and do.

No, but it's like, for me at least, the fixation on hitting the outcome is the thing that prevents you from like enjoying the little things along the way. I think it's Hormozi who has a quote, isn't it? Like, when you're 20 years old, like, you would trade everything to have a million dollars, and then it's like when you're 35 years old, it's like you would give away a million dollars just to be 20 years old again, right? It's like the grass is always greener on the other side. And I have these types of conversations, and you realize that a lot of other entrepreneurs feel very similar to you. Yet it seems like that is kind of the internal battle that you just have to accept, is like the forever battle. And to the extent you can channel it at different moments along the way, like, that's just the way that it goes. I think a lot of entrepreneurs were given that bug, which is the blessing and the curse, of course. Um, another thing I want to talk to you about is, uh, your perspective and philosophy on managing relationships, because I sense it's something you're very good at. It's something that I deeply value and care a lot about as well. Um, but as someone who's like always on the move doing a lot of different things like, what is your method to your madness, I guess, if you will?

Yeah, I think like one of the things that I've done throughout my life is I've almost like segmented my life into like different sections, and then in those sections I've got different people that I look to like really remain connected to. So it might be like business, it might be like my finances, it might be charity and giving back, then there's like personal life, then there's like family and friends, and then there's relationships. And then in those categories, I'll have certain figures, layers, or mentors that I kind of go to. Like, these are like my go-to ride or dies. Like, I really need to remain connected with them. And then there's the general level of like relationships and the management of those, which aren't necessarily those people that I necessarily want around forever. But it's like, how do you remain present for them and how do you build? I think, to be honest, like, I— this is probably like a me thing, but I'm like, I don't think I'm the best at relationships. I think I'm good at connecting with people. And I think on a personal level, I'm really good at being able to like have a chat with you and then identify opportunity for yourself and then show you how I can help you enjoy that opportunity. And I think that's something that people receive really well is like I'm, I'm, I am opportunistic for myself, but the way that I'm opportunistic for myself is I genuinely have found ways to create value for others. And so by me meeting all these amazing people all around the world, what I'm able to do do is when I meet someone like you and you say to me, hey, do you know anyone that can do this? I'm like, yeah, hell yeah, I can. Which is similar to what you did the other day for me, and that provides a lot of value. But then it's— if I look more on like my personal life, but then intertwined with what I'm building at Fordham, obviously like I've got a team. The team is back in Sydney. I travel a lot. I connect with a lot of different people all around the world, and it is definitely something that I'm very openly aware of that I need to be better at, even though from the outside it might seem like I'm really good at it, like I need to consistently develop the way that I'm able to connect with my team and continue to drive vision so that they feel connected to the brand, so that we continue to grow. So I think there's two different elements. It's the like, I'm good at connecting with people because I can generate and find value for them where I genuinely believe that if they hadn't met me, they wouldn't have that opportunity to enjoy whatever I can connect them with or do for them based on the engine that I'm building it for them. And then the other side of that, which I think I'm definitely learning and growing more in and it's less natural for me, is that like leadership piece in business and making sure that my team is completely tied to the vision of where we're trying to grow. And I think that that's probably like my focus in relationships at the moment.

What is your vision for Fordham right now?

I am incredibly proud of the motto and slogan that we've come up with, which is we come up with, which is like, we want to put brands at the epicenter of culture and creativity. And I think that really excites me. And what that means is obviously you can take it in any direction, but that's the purpose. Like a lot of my mentors are like, be a lot more clear. Like, what does that mean? Why is it not defined? And for me, life's about creating beautiful stories, both on a personal level and in actually a lot of our work. And so if someone turns around to me and says like, what does that mean? I go, great, I'm so glad you asked. And now I can tell you. And so my, my way of doing business and the way I see all this stuff is not necessarily the same way like some of my mentors see it. So when they say things like that, it actually really excites me. So I think my vision for Fordham is just to continue building this thing into something that's such a great engine to help brands grow. And that means that we have to be nimble enough to actually acknowledge what's happening on in the marketplace. And we've kind of exchanged a couple of words at how fast like our industries are changing. But in order to be the best for the brands at which we work with, we need to be the best that we can possibly be. And so as for— I'm never like, this is where we're going and this is what we're doing, but I want to be able to be the place that a brand turns around and says, if Fordham Media is not there, we're not at the epicenter of culture and creativity. And I think no matter what and whichever direction the world goes, it is incredibly important for brands to be at the center of what feels right in that given moment. And if you are placed there, you will see the revenue and profit rewards. And so Fordham can be in a position that allows brands to come to us and be like, hey, what do you think will work to get us there? Is it a content production story? Is it clever ads? Is it like whatever, whatever it is, is it an epic activation? Like, I want to be the brand that allows brands to really feel that.

The thing that I appreciate about it, and I don't say this often, I feel like you are very much at the center of like this founder market fit with like what you're doing. Like, it seems like it's genuinely your passion. Like, if I took Forum away from you tomorrow, like, you would still be trying to figure out, like, how am I doing culturally relevant things with culturally relevant people? Um, so, and I don't think that's the case for everyone always. So I think there's, there's something that's beautiful about being able to just, like, integrate what you do for fun and what you do for work into one. But I think that also presents the other side of the coin, which is, like, do you have any sort of division in and work first life. But I think most entrepreneurs would tell you that like work-life balance isn't the thing. It's like work is your life, and if you don't like what you do, then it's a bad life.

Yeah, work is your life and life is your work. Like, it genuinely— but like, I literally love it. Like, I feel like even, even, you know, we were here, we were on your rooftop having a sauna like a week ago, and you connected me with some amazing people, and that turns into business. And I think like there's no point that I sat there and I'm like, oh, I don't want to meet this guy. And it's genuinely not because I'm driven by the money that comes from signing the deals. Like, I get so much enjoyment and excitement in meeting new people and understanding them and trying to exchange some form of value that if that makes the company money, which it does, it's a win. So I've put myself in this position like I've worked really hard to get to the point where I want my work to be my life. Like, it's not something that I don't have this, this work-life balance thing for me. I don't feel like I need it. Like, I don't search for it either. I feel like what I'm doing right now, like I'm on the other side of the world, I'm able to have these epic conversations. It's exactly why I built the company. Like, I'm not a creative. Yes, I think creatively, but I don't shoot content myself. But I've put myself in a position where I'm like, if you're worried to speak to a CMO or a CEO or a founder of a company, like, that's what I love to do, so why wouldn't I do it? And then if we make money on the side, which we do, like, we're all winning. You get to be creative as one of my staff members. I'm living the life that I want to live, travel, meeting new people, and that's generating what we like. I don't really believe in the life-work balance, the work-life balance.

Yeah, the circle of life. I want to talk about your, like, personal brand building that you're doing as well. I think it's, um, it's something that I'm navigating as well in real time. I'm curious how you think about, like, building the production around that, especially because you alluded to the fact, like, you don't pick up a camera and shoot because I don't either. It's kind of like having someone or people who are around you to just capture like the life you're already living.

Yeah.

Uh, but you also obviously travel with your video people, so I'm just— I want you to dig a little bit into what that experience is like because I think there's probably people listening to this who either post content or know they should be and aren't.

Yeah.

Um, and the excuse of like, I'm busy, is— everyone can say that.

Yeah.

Uh, but it's clearly a priority for you, so I'm curious to hear a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I mean, the to low down real quick is whatever I pay Matt, who's my full-time video guy, just to focus on building our brand, is the best investment I've made recently. Um, but to dig deeper into that, I think like—

by the way, to be clear, this dude is crazy because like a week ago I, I need to tell this story because I told Owen this and he started laughing. Uh, when Chad was in New York previously, we were gonna go for a run together and he texts me and he goes, hey, is it cool with you if I bring my video guy? I was like, yeah, of course. Like, we all— all the people there, like, are in content or whatever, post content. And his video guy shows up and we walk out the front door to get ready for the run. And I was like, yo, like, the CitiBikes are over there if you want to pick up a bike. He's like, no, I'm running with you guys. This man runs with a big-ass camera in his hand and he's actually like a long-distance runner himself. I've not seen anything like that. I can tell you that there are not videographers in New York City who are doing that.

Whoa.

So I hope he listens to this because you're a savage.

That's another reason he He's a great guy. But yeah, no, it's definitely to dig deeper into like the content journey. Obviously appreciate that. I think the reality is, is like as I've built for them, I've also realized like there's things that I'm good at and there's things that I'm not good at and there's things that are worth my time and not worth my time. And me trying to teach myself how to shoot video and edit the video that comes from it is just certainly not it. And I honestly don't have the time to do it. But I do live a life thankfully and gratefully that I think is quite interesting. And therefore, if I had someone to just document what I was actually doing, which has obviously been something Gary Vee spoken about forever, big inspiration for me in the early days of like taking the jump from full-time work into like building my own thing. But like that, we don't create content. We literally document. Like, I never say to Matt, like, hey, let's go create this piece, which I think a lot of creatives do these days because they feel like they need to do it for a brand, which I totally understand. But I think like we all live such interesting lives. It's just about that decision to be like, I'm actually okay with filming what I do. And it is very weird. Like it's taken me— Matt came on board with me in September last year. We're now— what are we, April 2025? And at first it was very weird having someone like recording my calls, like while I'm on sales calls and like it felt very strange and, you know, like having someone meet me at the, um, at the track to like film a running session where like I'm like half vomiting on the side of the thing. And like, but for other people that's like, Chad's putting in the work. But for me it was almost embarrassing. So there's a lot of these moments that you, you aren't aware of that might feel weird, which subconsciously are stopping you from making that decision to create the content of what you're doing. Um, but to the rest of the world or the people that are interested in what you're doing, it's actually really inspirational and aspirational. And so as I started receiving feedback and comments on the, the work that we were putting out into the world and how, you know, creators from around the world were like asking me questions about how to build an agency, like someone popping up in Germany and someone popping up in like literally, literally all around the world. And I have a small following compared to a lot of my friends, but that's like really exciting. And I feel like by putting content out and by just accepting the fact that it is a little bit weird at first, the rewards far outweigh whatever that awkwardness is. Um, and one of like a really good friend of mine and now mentor in New York City, her name's Ariane Goldman, she asked me literally a week ago, she, she says to me, she's like, is it not weird having Matt following you around everywhere? And after like 6, 8 months of doing it, like, it just feels normal. And the reward from doing it has genuinely been one of the best things ever. Like, we landed in London Um, Matt created a reel just before we got to London and landed in London. As soon as I landed, I got signal and looked at my emails, and I had an email from a brand called Fat Pats in Manchester being like, if you guys are in London this week, we have to shoot content. Like, I want a project done this week because I don't want to go anywhere else. I've seen your work. And the next day, Matt was up to Manchester shooting content, and we delivered, and it paid for the trip. So like The opportunities are there and the world is so big. And I remember in economics when I was studying in high school, we spoke about like the interconnectedness of the global economy. What social media actually does for someone who's willing to take that risk is phenomenal. And the world is so interconnected that the opportunity is far greater than what, what you feel it is when you step out of your front door. And without taking the jump and without giving yourself the shot by doing this sort of thing, you're actually ham— like, you've made yourself hamstrung.

Where's the line? Like, is there any line for you in terms of— I want to dig into this because I'm so curious about this. Um, is there any, like, I guess, what is the, the talk track you have with him about, like, expectations? There's certain things that you're like, this is my— this is Chad time. Yeah, like, this is not on the camera.

Yeah.

Um, because there's also— I think the other thing that I've always joked about, uh, is that the number one criteria for me with any video person that I work with is like, I can sit in a room with you and not want to like scream at you because you're driving me nuts.

Yeah, yeah. So for me, what I— and this is something that like I've held true more recently at Fordham, and I'm actually reading a book by Danny Meyer at the moment, the guy who started Shake Shack and big restaurateur in, um, New York. And he talks about, um, enlightened hospitality is his concept. But one of the things he says in there is if he hires a person, if he's doing interviews if he's hiring a person, there's two things he looks at. One is gut feel, and two is whether or not he believes that in the next 6 to 12 months this person can become a top 3 performer in his organization. And I read that and I resonated quite heavily with it because as Fortnum has grown and we're able to hire better people by nature of budgets and what we can afford to spend on our people, you don't really want to bring anyone into an organization, whether it's on a personal brand level or a company level, that can't take you from where you are now to where where you're trying to go. And so then there are absolutely better people than me at that in my current— like, me in my company. And so to bring that back into your question around, like, being able to sit in a room with this guy— more recently, I've historically— sorry, I've asked the question, what does hard work mean to you, in interviews. And that was almost like an undercover, sly way of being like, is this person willing to work hard? Like, do they actually know what it means to, like, build something and be a part of building something? And I used to hide behind that question. But with Matt, Matt was actually the first guy that I said to him, I'm like, this job is going to be incredibly hard. I will be calling you. I will tell you the night before and we'll have to be at the track at 5 a.m. tomorrow morning. And you might be with me in the office until 7 p.m. tomorrow night. But at the same time, in 3 months' time, you might be with me in London and you also might be with me in New York, your favorite city in the world. And this is going to be a relationship where it's going to be hard sometimes. But you're also going to be able to enjoy some of the fruitfulness of like what I experience in my life. And I took the opportunity with this particular hire to be really upfront and honest with like, this is not going to be easy and are you okay with that? And he looked at me and I could just tell his honest answer was like, yeah, I'm ready to tackle this. And when I felt that energy, not even just saw the energy, I was like, you're my guy. And so to, I guess, come back to your question, I think, like, I'm more than happy to be in the same room as Matt. I love being in the same— we, we joke, we laugh, we know when to be serious. And the guy— the boundaries in terms of when I ask him to film or not film, it's really just like my family and kind of my friends. But sometimes my friends feature in my vlogs and stuff, but it's more so like my family and my personal time. I'm not really getting him to film when I'm like relaxing, doing nothing. I absolutely do— I spend a lot of time recharging solo, um, but I don't think that provides value to an audience. And I'm not creating for the sake of creating value necessarily for an audience, but like, no one wants to see me lying on the couch watching Netflix, so I just tell him when I don't need him. Or if I'm doing a solo gym session in the morning and it was the same as the last 3 days, like, enjoy the sleep-in, like, you don't need to be there. So it's kind of like we're molding it as, as it kind of happens. It is only 6-8 months that we've been in it together, Um, but I think it's finding someone that you gel with 100%, like that's a massive thing. Um, and also I had a chat with one of like this guy by the name of A.L. Booker, cool guy for you to meet. He owns a brand called Wavy and he's in LA. And, um, I was with him in London and they were filming something and they were using my curly hair as— he's got a curly hair cream product and they were using my hair as a model in this video they were doing and his videographer wasn't rolling all the time and it was being shot as if it was like a cinematic piece. And I'm like, find someone that you really like, but also get them to roll for everything. People want real, raw, authentic moments. You're not creating something that's this cinematic masterpiece when you're documenting what you do because people want to know that you fuck up and people want to know that you're not perfect. And I'm far from that. And I think like the most— the best feedback I get is when I tell people, like, show people that I'm struggling. And like the honesty around like, I'm not the best leader and I'm— but I am the best person at trying to wake up tomorrow and be better than I was yesterday. And that's like just honesty. And sometimes I know that even for my staff members, they turn around, they're like, that's not what I want to hear. Like, I just want to hear you've got your shit together. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't. Like, I'm learning. Like, if I didn't give you something that you wanted today and I saw your face go like you were completely disheartened, I promise you in 3 months' time I've learned my lesson and I will be better. But not everyone will be. And that's kind of how I view it. So find a person you love being in the room with. Make sure you set really clear guidelines as to like what the expectations are. And then the other side of that is they just need to be really good at what they do and they need to be really passionate about their craft more so than you are. And yet again, it's like, do what you're really good at and focus on what you're really good at and take the leap because the investment you make to get someone that's better than you to do what you wish you could do, it always pays off. And that's yet again talking into like patience and the long game. I think we've got 1,000 subscribers on our YouTube, but 1,000 subscribers is worth a lot more than, I don't know, 1,000 on Instagram. I think they like— people are really bought in, but it's nothing. Like, I've got friends with millions of subscribers.

Yeah, but you know how I describe it to people is like, when you say it's nothing, like, what if I was able to get every single one of your subscribers in this living room right now?

Yeah, it's nuts. No, it's, it's mental.

You'd be like, what the fuck? Like, there's 1,000 people that are like here because they give a shit what I have to say.

No, I, I know it's crazy. No, no, it is crazy. But when you compare to like some people, it's like it really is nothing. But even if I can feel the impact with 1,000 people, like every dollar we spend on doing this is worth it. And more recently, like, gratefully, like, obviously, like, my socials and Instagram following has jumped up significantly. But I don't do it for like, obviously there's an ego piece in it and it feels nice when you follow your, you know, your socials are growing and your followers are growing. But like everything for me is an opportunity. Everything for me is an opportunity. If people are interested in hearing me and they seeing what I'm doing and they think it's cool, then it's opportunity for business. And then why do I do that? Well, like I've got people to feed, like I've got a company that I'm building. And if, you know, I'm running a marathon in London and we create an amazing post-London marathon highlight reel, which we just dropped on our socials, and New Balance sees that, and all of a sudden I've got the global CMO of New Balance calling me and being like, holy shit, that was the best video ever. And then I get to take one of my creatives to like Boston for a World Athletics Series next year, like, and that's their biggest dream, then I'm doing a great job as a CEO and leader. So opportunities are everywhere, and I do really think that putting your message out into the world is something that can significantly and they help you generate more of them.

And then one other question I have on that topic, which I appreciated and thought was interesting, was you asking for permission to bring your videographer.

Yeah.

Is that something that you do in every meeting and every situation you're in? And has there been people who say no?

Yeah, absolutely. I do my best to ask in advance for people that like know me or have known me for a little while now over the course of the last 6 months, like they kind of know that it happens. I do leave him out of like if there's like a big potential relationship. For example, like last week I caught up with Bombas, the founder of Bombas, and went into their office and that was a big one for me. But also like it's a bit weird to like bring a camera guy and you've never met them. Like, is it okay? Can you ask like, you know, do they, do they get the concept of it? And to be honest, I walked in and I told them about it that I didn't bring him and he was like, oh, why didn't you bring him?

So you call them on the phone, you say, yeah, get your ass over here.

Um, but like, the reality is, is like, um, in, in Australia, I actually have it in my email signature. Like, I've got a thing that says like, we're constantly vlogging everything that we do, building the behind the scenes of my brand and our company's brand. If you don't want us to be filming, if we're ever together, like, please let me know.

Um, that's so interesting. I like that.

So that's a really easy one. And then I've also told Matt, like, always ask for forgiveness. So like, we— there's, there's nothing that says we can't film anything. Like, yeah, you're not allowed to go and film random strangers. Actually, you are allowed to film random strangers on the street. You're also allowed to film police people on the street. That's something I've learned. But if someone tells you you're not allowed to film, then you cannot have the footage. And so I've said always ask for forgiveness. Like, so if I'm having an interaction with someone and we're catching up and like you're standing next to me just because you're with me at the time, pull your camera out and start filming us. And if the person says, ah, don't want you to film, it's awkward for like 3 seconds, and then you just be like, oh, sorry, like, we're just building, we're vlogging the behind the scenes of what we're building, and people are really getting a lot of value from it. I apologize. Like, don't stress, we won't use it in the vlog. Um, but it's definitely like I've created an environment where I've said to this creative, because it is sometimes very awkward for them if they're filming and someone says stop filming.

Yeah, they like feel like they're, they did something wrong almost.

But we're like, we'll almost like, we'll always film. Like, um, you know, we were in a diner once and we were filming a campaign video, and it's absolutely not something that you should be doing, is just like walking into a diner and filming a campaign, um, permits and all that kind of stuff. But it was the same thing, it was like, if they say to us like we can't film, they came up to us and asked, and I was like, hey, we're just like filming this really cool project for a brand, and like they really loved your space. And the owner came out, and we thought the owner was going going to be like, what are you doing? And then he's like, hell yeah, my diner is going to be in this commercial.

Sales are going to go through the roof.

So it was awesome. So yeah, I think asking for forgiveness is—

that's awesome. Um, I want to talk about the life you had before the agency. Yeah, you were building a watch brand.

I don't even know if I remember that life. Nah. Um, yeah, so I mean, I started a company before Fordham Media called Fordham Watches, and Fordham means strong, brave, or bold. In Latin. And I've always done things that have like— I'm a sentimental dude. I like having things that are sentimental. I've always had things that have a deeper message, always try to do things for a deeper cause or message. And when my grandpa passed away the day before I wrote my final high school exams from cancer, and he was incredibly close to me, he took his Rolex off his wrist and he put it in, like slid it onto my mum's wrist and said, Chad's basically the timekeeper of the family now. And so that was a big, big moment for me, and that made me incredibly passionate about watches. Um, and so when I was in Denmark on scholarship at, um, Aarhus Business School, which is like quite a well-known business school for entrepreneurship, um, one of my mentors there said to me, he's like, you're a smart guy, start a brand while you're in the city and do something you're passionate about. And I decided I was going to start a watch brand, so design, developed, and manufactured watches. And then we went selling a couple of them a month to a couple hundred of them a month. And it just grew and grew and grew. And what I didn't realize at the time was that what I was doing was building skills and understanding of like how to market and sell product. And, you know, that was through creating content and that was through social ads and influencer marketing and building a website on Shopify and all that sort of stuff, which I know is quite heavily your world. And at the time, like, my friends started asking me like, oh, who's creating the content? And then eventually brands were reaching out and being like, how are you doing this? Like, how are you growing so quickly? And I was just like, through really cool content and influencers. And what I realized was like, I was creating relationships with the creatives, we were creating the content, I'd known what was selling them, and then all of a sudden brands were asking me how we were doing it. And I was like, hmm, interesting.

Is someone gonna pay me?

Yeah, I was like, maybe I can get paid for this, which I think is just like that entrepreneurship mindset. And, um, yeah, very quickly I realized that albeit I'm really passionate about watches, like, the thing I'm most passionate about is connection. My most used emoji on my phone is a hug emoji, and I think the number of hugs that I have in the vlog, if you went and counted them, there's hundreds. Like, I'm not a handshake guy at all. Like, I just like physical touch and connection is big for me. And I love, you know, like, I love giving people hugs. I think it's a really cool moment for connection. And, um, I just realized, like, I was like, I love watches, but like, I don't get a thrill out of knowing that like there's thousands of people wearing my watches around the world. Like, it's cool, but like, I really enjoyed the human personal element of like trying to help someone build something. And I realized that maybe this was an opportunity to do so. So the life before the media company was basically designing, developing and manufacturing watches and then selling them through good content, ads, etc. And that very quickly changed when brands were asking for how I was doing it and I was just like, well, I'm doing it. And then I did it for a couple very small scale, like we're talking like $5,000-$10,000 deals that I was doing at the time. But I really enjoyed the ability to be deeply curious around like their brand, what they were building, how they were doing it, how they've done in the past, what their goals were. And then basically pulling in all of that information and then finding the right people to deliver on the work. And then that basically was the creation of Fordham.

Was there ever a moment where you, like, came to terms with letting go of the watches, or was it, was it a natural progression where you're like, this is my bigger purpose, like, I'm meant to be doing this?

Yeah, it was definitely like a natural, natural progression. I think like I've been lucky enough to have started my first business when I was 13.

And so I've had a couple along the way and I think most entrepreneurs either admit that they did or just don't have the ability to tell you the truth.

Yeah. And I like, I think like you, you— there's definitely something in as an entrepreneur, you get pulled in a million directions all the time and you're chasing the shiny object and it's like, and that shiny object isn't always money. It's, you know, it could be something that just feels really relevant right now. Like, I— the number of times I've thought about starting a run brand for clothing, a clothing brand for runners, um, because I'm so heavily involved in the run scene at the moment, it's like hundreds of times. Like, I've woken up in the middle of the night and I'm like, bing, I could start this retail brand. Like, but the reality is, is like, there's people that are better at that. It's been done. And maybe there is space for another one in the market. There probably is. But I think like, you're always like— being in the space that we're in, you see so many different things and to answer your question around like my calling, like I just feel like sometimes there are these callings that feel really, really real deep down. And that's when you have to like truly make the call. Like, am I going to shift gears and go all into this new thing? Or is this, this one that I just need to like keep in my back pocket? Or it's one that I just need to like palm off. And I think that that's probably one of the biggest things that I'm trying to learn at the moment is like, what are those opportunities that you do jump on and say seize and what are the ones that you like gracefully just be like, I'm actually okay with not doing this one because as you build, especially as I've built personal brand, like there's a lot of people who've reached out to me and asked me to like be involved in certain things. And at face value it sounds amazing, but you only have so much attention and you can only really give so much your all. And right now I do feel like I'm at capacity with what I'm currently building in the best way possible. But I just think like, yeah, you have to decipher whether that opportunity truly feels like the right thing to do. And the jump from the watches into what I'm currently doing now definitely felt right. And for the last 6 and a half years has really filled my cup. So albeit there's been a hell of a lot of challenges along the way, I'm still grateful for the opportunity.

What would you say is your biggest turning pro moment along your journey?

Turning pro? I wish I agreed with the concept of turning pro, but I unfortunately don't. I don't think I've turned pro. I don't think I will ever turn pro. Um, I think like I'm constantly learning. I would love to say that. There's been— there's definitely been many moments along the way where—

yeah, but there's, there's different degrees of being a pro. Yeah, think about, think about soccer.

Yeah, I know.

What, there's 30 to 35 different tiers and leagues?

All right, Junior Pro, let's call it.

I appreciate that. I actually appreciate the candor on it.

Yeah, no, no, I think it's going to be the Turning Pro podcast.

What was the best answer you've got so far? Yeah, I don't agree with it.

I don't believe in turning pro. No, no, I don't think it's— I don't agree with the concept. I think it's more around like, I genuinely, till the day I die, don't think I will be satisfied with how much I understand and know of this world and business and people and relationships. And I'm just so deeply curious about the world, both my world internally and the world around me, that I don't think I will ever classify myself as turning pro. But I do think that that's what motivates me. And we kind of touched upon that earlier, is like, I love something that's like just out of reach because it keeps me driving, it keeps me enjoying the journey. But I think there have been many moments along the way where I've been like, okay, I actually— if I compare this moment to how I dealt with something that was the same size or significance 6 months ago, and how I'm feeling right now with how this challenge is challenging me, I actually feel like I've turned pro in that particular segment or area of my life. And so, for example, if I have staff challenges and a staff— something's happening with a staff member, 6 months ago that felt like it was the end of my company. Right now I'm like, oh no, that's cool. Like, let them do their thing. Like, we'll move on to the next, or we'll, you know, we'll support them on their mission and we'll do this. Like, you— I think there are ways in which I don't, I don't think I will ever be pro at everything that I'm doing, but I definitely think that there's elements and moments where more recently than not I've seen significant development in my ability to, um, deal with certain circumstances that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to deal with in the past. And I'd probably say that in those moments I've tapped myself on the back and be like, okay, you're growing as a leader and you're growing as a person in, in this pla— or on this planet.

Chad, I appreciate you coming on the podcast today, brother.

Thank you for having me.

Do you want to look at the camera and let everyone know where they can find you, what you're working on?

Um, yeah, absolutely. Um, obviously Forter Media first, so Instagram @ForterMedia, our website www.fortermedia.com. And then on a personal brand side, I'm building a YouTube under Chad Cohen, and on Instagram I'm @itschadcohen.

That's it. That's a wrap.

Thank you for having me.