#090: Building a Creator Agency That Actually Performs | JT Barnett

I think everyone's different and I think everyone has things that make them better at their craft. And for me, I feel like there's some people, even, even today I meet some entrepreneurs that it's like the only thing that they can focus on to be the best that they are is the one thing that, that they're doing in their business. And if they like deviate from that focus at all, productivity decreases, the way that they actually can impact their community decreases. Then I meet other people that are balancing are juggling 8 different things and they're be at the same level of productivity because each of those things has its own way of boosting them with energy or enjoyment or whatever it is. And so I feel like there's different ways that people operate.

Welcome back to Season 4, Episode 13 of the Turning Pro Podcast. Today we have JT Barnett, who is the founder and CEO of Creator X, joining us. Thanks for joining today, JT.

Stoked to be here.

I've been waiting a few months for this one. I feel like the, the hard thing to do is organize an in-person podcast with two people with very busy schedules who live in different cities across the country, across the countries, and an in-person podcast. Pure coincidence. I was like, today's a podcast day, you're coming. I texted you, I was like, this is when we're hanging out, 1 PM to 3 PM on this Wednesday.

Love it, we're here.

Um, I— this is a— this is an exciting episode for me because I think I put you in a category of like almost zero people, uh, that I look up to. And that is because you went from a competitive hockey career to content creator. And as you know, I played competitive hockey as well, uh, and so to watch someone else kind of go through that journey has been really interesting. Excuse me. And I think there's a lot of, a lot of points to be made around how that journey shaped what you're doing today, because I think we have a connection that some people can't relate to because they don't understand like the dark side of of playing hockey and competitive hockey for that matter.

Yeah.

So I'd love to start, maybe just give a quick 2-minute background on what you were doing before you were creating content and building Creator X.

Yeah, dude, also like great, great point. 'Cause I'm glad you brought that up because it's so true. I don't think I know another person that has played professional and has even chosen to go into the content world, let alone entrepreneurship. So glad that we're able to bond on that. For those of you that don't know me, I was once a pro hockey player. I stopped in 2018. I was creating content while I was playing lightly and just was obsessed with the creative outlets outside of the sport. I felt like hockey was a little bit too confining for me. And so when I got done playing, I immediately jumped into content creation. So I became a personal trainer with the goal of me filming every workout, filming every tip that I had. Had no interest in like being a long-term personal trainer, just had seen my now wife build in that kind of category. And I loved training myself, so I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. Got really deep into content. TikTok came out, uh, fell in love with that platform, started creating on it daily. Uh, should I go really— should I keep going to this? Yeah. Okay. Ended up starting a TikTok house during 2020, middle of pandemic. Put 10 people in a house together, called it Honey House, and that account went super viral. Million followers in 60 days. E! News doing a big story on us, Business Insider doing articles about how I'm building it. And that got me the opportunity to go and consult for businesses on their organic social. So the first company that I worked with is Poppy. That's the one that I think is most recognizable that people understand because they really got social. And I was able to like sit with the founder, write scripts, teach her TikTok. Guide the social strategy. And one of her videos outperformed the day that they aired on Shark Tank. So she went nuts and like introduced all of her friends to me with my organic social. Um, so that was, that became like the business. I was able to like start consulting for brands on organic content. And that was, that's still what I do today. That, the, now the new thing that has been added to that was about a year after doing just the social. Started realizing, wait, I actually think that there's more needed here. Companies are going to need to really hire people on their team that get social, that aren't like a CMO. Most social media managers are usually required to do more of the community side than the content side. And so I just saw like a big gap and was like, I think that brands need to get content the way that creators get content. So who actually could help them with that? And at the same time, creators a lot of creators struggle with brand deals being their only source of revenue, and that's not consistent for a lot of reasons beyond just the creator being good. So I was like, okay, creators are going to need to make money in other ways, and a lot of them love making content, all they want to do. Brands need to be making content. Brands have a lot more income to be passing along to employees and things like that. So I could see this world where creators go in-house with brands, and so I think I'm just somebody that like maybe sees things a little early and I move on them, especially when I have like 1 or 2 examples of it working. And as soon as I see that, I try to like make moves on it. So I saw that and I was like, this is something I could really help with. And so that's the other thing that we do right now is we help brands build their own social team by working with the best creators in the world. Um, so yeah, those are the 2 things that I'm up to still, still as a creator talking about business, still love content. It's all I want to do. I know that sounds weird for some people, but literally all I want to do usually is like, if I can make content for 12 hours a day, that's like a really fun day for me. So I'm like, I'm playing the game that I want to be playing and really excited to be here.

I want to talk about the content creation when you were still playing hockey. I think it's— there's a piece of it specifically I want to talk about in terms of if it's something that you felt, but I actually felt like once I stopped playing hockey, I realized that that was when I started to care less about what other people thought about me. Um, I think when I still played hockey, when you're in a locker room, it's like anything you did outside the locker room did not go unnoticed, right? It doesn't matter, like something you posted, something you said, something you did. I feel like there's just this level of like judgment that goes on inside of a locker room. And honestly, I've never talked about this online before. Where I feel as though I was someone who thought about making content for probably 5+ years before I ever actually did it. Uh, one, because— and everyone knows this— it feels cringe the first time you make content. Like, you never want to be the person that makes a video that gets no likes, or you don't know what to say or how to say it. But the other one was like the fear of judgment, of like being that one guy on a hockey team where culturally it's very much like this alpha behavior and you're the one guy making TikToks. Is that something that you experienced? Or I guess, what is your perspective on that? Yeah, having gone through it, dude.

So actually, really interesting. When I was playing, I actually felt like the identity issue that I was having was I didn't resonate with being just a hockey player.

So same.

So there's some people, but there's a lot of people that like, that's their identity. And when they leave the sport they're like, oh my gosh, who am I without hockey? I actually feel like I was kind of like reversed where I was playing and I was like, I don't feel like I'm a hockey player. Like I felt, yeah, I did feel like I was, I had aspects of a hockey player and I love the sport. It was my number one passion when I was growing up. But like once it became a business and it became really like you have to adhere to what the team once, it kind of felt weird for me. So I didn't resonate with like being a hockey player. So I actually think that the, the, the like push that I had or the tension that I had when I was playing was I want to do all this other creative shit. I was a DJ, I was producing music, I was edit, I was, uh, um, do it, making photo and video content and like mixing things around with that. I was making clothing. I was, I was like doing all of this creative stuff outside of the rink. That I felt like it made me a more of a well-rounded athlete, but all over, but like a well-rounded person because it was like actually other sides of myself that I really cared about. And then I would go into the rink and it would be like, yeah, I do think that it would be like I would get a hard time for it, but it also would be like those guys genuinely felt like it was foreign to them and like they only cared about being at the rink, playing hockey, and that was their whole life. And so I think for me, the identity thing was never resonating with that and feeling like, ah, there's just something missing here for me. So it was less of, I think it was less for me of like guys really like giving me a hard time and me having to like fight that. It was more of me internally just being like, why do I feel so different than these guys do? And like, what does that mean for me? And I didn't understand that until I left. And then once I left, it was like floodgates opened.

I think one point about that that's interesting to me is that you hear a lot of people talk about just this concept of focus, right? Like being obsessed with one thing to become the best at it. I felt as though that was my life for 20 years, right? With hockey. Uh, and I think this identity crisis that you speak to is because most times to play at the highest levels, you really do have this maniacal focus of like one thing and one thing only. And I don't know if maybe outside the rink, there's just ways that you can blend multiple interests into like one north star, right, let's talk about your life today. It's like, at its core, you do a lot of different things, whether it's like make your own content, help people with content, uh, like build a business, but they all like push towards the North Star. Whereas I feel like with hockey, it's just like you're, you're playing hockey, or you're lifting weights for hockey, or you're eating healthy for hockey, and it's really just so narrow focused.

Yeah, uh, so I'll push back on that, but I'll I will rebuttal that with saying that I think everyone's different and I think everyone has things that make them better at their craft. And for me, I feel like there's some people, even, even today I meet some entrepreneurs that it's like the only thing that they can focus on to be the best that they are is the one thing that they're doing in their business. And if they like deviate from that focus at all, productivity decreases the way that they actually can impact their community decreases. Then I meet other people that are balancing or juggling 8 different things and they're at the same level of productivity because each of those things has its own way of boosting them with energy or enjoyment or whatever it is. And so I feel like there's different ways that people operate. And I think that the sport, though, is very like, you should only be singular focused.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying, because I personally resonate with the second example you gave of like you do a— like, I do a podcast and I also have a company, and like, in a way, in my mind, it makes sense where they kind of like propel each other forward.

For sure.

But I felt like with hockey, I was inside this box where it's like you're not allowed to do these other things.

Yeah.

Because it's like, if— I don't know— your coach finds out, like, why are you spending every hour away from the rink like making TikTok videos and like building a clothing brand? I was the kid at Colgate that, uh, was trying to build like every entrepreneurial endeavor that I could while I was there. I I started like a, uh, there was a campus coat check business. I was literally like checking coats at frat parties. It was a mattress business called Raider Rentals for kids to like have bigger beds. Um, and it was just my coach would look at me with 10 heads like, you don't fit in with this group. And it went so much so, this is probably the final example, and then we can change the topic, which was I was a theater minor at Colgate, and the only reason that I couldn't be a theater major was because I couldn't be in a major production at school. And the reason I couldn't was because of my hockey schedule.

Uh, wow, right?

So it's literally like also designed in a way where you're not— you can't do other things for sure. So for that reason, whatever, when it ended, I feel like my lens on the world just shifted completely. Like, I don't regret or resent any of that experience because it made me who I am into today. But I definitely feel way more free, I think, is probably how I would describe it.

Yeah. And I think that, uh, I think it's why I got into entrepreneurship and like love entrepreneurship is because I lived as an employee for my entire 15 to, to, uh, 26, meaning like you're kind of an employee when you're a player on a team. You don't get to choose a lot of the things that you do. You fall— you have to follow rules. Yes, you do get to like push yourself and be the best that you can in certain ways, but like it is very much, very much ran very similarly to a company. And I think as soon as I got out and had the freedom I was like, oh my gosh, being able to bet on myself and like have the very, like really be in control of the variables of my success sounds like a dream come true. And so that's, I think that's one of the reasons why I love it so much and, uh, I'm really passionate about it.

How do you think about, uh, I think this is probably something a lot of creators think about, and you alluded to this earlier, but people who just want to make content, but they have this fear around like, is that actually gonna be able to financially support me? Right, I think it's like a very scary thing for some people who maybe never pick up the phone because they, uh, don't understand like what the path looks like. And I think there's something to be said about having a plan, and there's another thing to be said about just like be authentic and jump into it and like trust that it will take care of itself.

I mean, look, if you're somebody that's thinking about trying to get into content today, I think that you should pursue it. First of all, I'm a big advocate for doing that if your heart is desiring it. And at the same time I do think you should lead with a little bit of logic as well. I don't— content as a career is hard. It's more competitive every day. Cracking it is harder every day. There's more people doing it. Anything with a barrier to entry that's that low, everybody's gonna jump on if there's opportunity. So it is harder every day, but there also is still a ton of opportunity. And so when anybody's starting, I'm like, okay, what's your current situation right now? Can you go 3, 4, 5, 6 months? Financially to where you're making $0, like a year? Can you— how much time can you go? If not, how can you like slowly segue into this? Like, can you do this outside of your work hours? Can you do this in the morning? Can you do this on the weekends? I think that that's a great place to start if you're not in a place to just like go all in, because people can tell when you're in survival. And I think you create the best when you're not in survival. Like actually from a, from a physiological standpoint, when you're in survival, you're less creative. So like if you actually leave your work to go all in on content, but then you can't pay for your rent and you're actually in survival, it's gonna be a lot harder to show up to that content and like really give and like really connect, which is what you're trying to do when you're making videos is like you really want your audience to emotionally connect to you. So if you're like, you gotta buy this, you gotta buy this because you need your rent paid, then I think it's just a much harder way to build. So I really do think that you should be thinking about it from a safety standpoint of like, what gives me the best chance of building like a real authentic connection with my community? And if that's easing into it, really just ease into it.

I think there's, there's also a couple different ways to go about the process in which you put in place to be making content. But I think on one side of the spectrum, you have the creators who just like pick up their phone and start ripping and they don't think anything about it. They know nothing. Like, I love when you meet a creator who is massive. Like, I didn't know what a hook was until I like already had 100,000 followers. I was just like picking up the phone and doing it. And then you have people on the other side of it who think of it as more of like a process and a production. I would say I probably fall more into that second camp because when I think about it, it's like part of building a business. I'm not— I wouldn't say I'm a full-time creator that's building a business. I'm a full-time business builder that is creating content. So I'm curious to, to get your lens of like, how do you think about what is the right way to approach building content?

Every single thing when I'm starting from scratch begins with me thinking about the end consumer. So what I mean by that is like that question you asking me, where should somebody start? What kind of content they should create? I don't have the answer until I know who do you want to see it? Who do you want seeing the video and being obsessed with it? That will tell me everything I need to know because for one person, their For You page is full of high production, you know, sets that are designed and like there's real thought into it. And then the next person is all literally TikTok style, raw vlog, whatever, phone to face. So I think it's thinking about your end consumer and what has the highest potential of landing on their For You page organically that they would care about. That's where you begin.

It's so interesting because I actually think I'm like, I feel like I'm getting a masterclass lesson in real time because when I started the podcast, like reason number one was for selfish reasons. It was like, I learned by talking to people that are smarter than me, which is okay. And when I'm curious to talk to someone, I reach out to them and say, hey, do you want to come on my podcast? I'm like, okay, well, if I can learn from this, and then as a byproduct of that, there might be people out there who can listen to this and also learn. It's like everyone wins, I guess, is how I look at it.

That's okay though. Like, I'll say the same thing. Some people start businesses being like, I just want to make money. Cool, nothing wrong with that. But if you want people to actually resonate with it, you have to meet them where they're at. So for you with the podcast, it's like, that's so fine. Starting something with your own, even if it's like, this is so selfish, that's okay. The best way for you to break through though, is to find them. Where's that meet? Where does that actually intersect with the person that wants this, that would actually consume it if I wasn't paying them to, like if they actually genuinely cared about it. And then like, what's that format? What does it look like? Where does it live? Like all of that comes from there.

I wanna, I wanna talk more about, uh, brands in the world of content because I think as we see now, creators are basically becoming brands, uh, and now I think brands are starting to recognize that there's creators who get way more distribution than they do, and that's kind of where you fit into this intersection. What would you say is like the biggest mistake that brands are making right now in terms of how they think about their content strategy?

I think not. I think being precious to, um, being precious to the brand and spending less time really understanding what the consumer wants. So like, same thing, that same exercise. By the way, if you're listening to this and you're a creator or you're a brand, I think the exercise you should do is really sit down and be like, who do we want becoming obsessed with us? Who is that person? What is their life like? What do they care about? What's their content that they're watching? And then what I think most brands would realize is we can actually appeal to this person in so many different formats and different styles, but we're holding onto it looking a certain way because of their original brand guideline, like our, like, you know, our creative deck that we made when we first started. And so what they end up losing is speed or consistency and only doing things around like a launch or only doing things around like a cultural moment. And I'm sure like as anybody knows that's tried, like you need to be really consistent for people to actually start remembering you and watching more. And so the brands that are doing it the best have really understood that and are like, we're going to meet our people where they want to, where they're at and try and show up in the ways that are native to them.

What are 3 brands that you admire and ones that you would say are like brands people should be watching?

One that I was talking about this morning that I think is doing a really good job in the consumer world is a clothing company called Nude Project. Uh, they're like, they're, they understand social, they understand different styles of formats, whether it's like a mix of something that starts looking like a TikTok and then goes into higher production, whether it's like a vlog on YouTube, whether it's static, like I think they really understand content. I'll give it, I'll give one that's a tech example. I think ClickUp is one of the best right now in terms of like a SaaS product, um, B2B. They have built out a whole lineup of creators that are like now in-house talent that make their own shows. Um, they're filming basically a pretend show of The Office and like they have a full production around it. It's its own series. It's its own channel. So I think ClickUp's doing a really, really, really good job. So yeah, those are two examples of brands that I really like.

And I think the other piece that I'm starting to notice is like this intersection of like low production content and like high production content where you now see like the Netflix of the world like reaching out to people who are like camera on YouTube and they're like trying to get them onto their platforms. Because like to your point, uh, I think you made an interesting comment before, before we started filming, which is the fact that a brand is vying for the same attention that an indivi— um, a consumer that looks at a brand is the same person that they want to look at the creator or the brand. So it's like Your brand is not competing with another brand. Your brand is competing with every single creator and brand fully. And I think that's actually a very, very, uh, amazing insight that is very underrated. Yeah, yeah.

Like, I mean, again, think about this. Everybody, when we're scrolling, we're scrolling on the same For You page that every other person has. And when you're scrolling on that, you're not segmenting it between brands, politicians, creators, and athletes. It's like Everything that you care about is on that same feed. And so when you're a company, you're not, you're not looking at it as, oh, we just gotta outdo, you know, the category leader in our, in our category to be able to be crushing it. You actually need to think about it as like, what is all of the content that our creator, that our consumer is consuming? And then that becomes your blueprint. And so when you think about it that way, it's like the level gets raised much higher. You know, some brands are doing a good job, but like when you think about like what's all of the stuff that our, that our consumer is watching, a lot of those are gonna lead creator. A lot of those people that they're consuming right now are individuals who have a real connection with them, which is why they follow. They really understand them. One of the other things that we do with brands is like we do this scorecard that's like around the sentiment that your audience actually cares about you. And it's like, how much buy-in does your community feel like they have with the brand? How much do they feel like they emotionally feel validated, seen, heard by the content you're creating? If you compared a creator to a business on that same scorecard, creator will outperform by like 10x because creators, when they're starting, they really understand the human that they're creating for and they're trying to create that emotional connection. But businesses usually start with business, business goals, not the emotional connection. And so they don't really have the same understanding of how to bridge that gap. And what I think they should be thinking about much more is how do we act more like creators in that sense and create with the sense of trying to land on that person's For You page and have them really care about it more so than the creators they're watching.

Which is why your take is that businesses, successful brands at least, are media companies in 5 years from now.

For sure. I mean, I already think that they are like ClickUp has 10 different channels. Nude Project has multiple different ones. ClickUp is going and finding talent. That is like an influencer that likes making business content and having her come under ClickUp's umbrella and make a brand new fake influencer account, like a human being name with a human being bio. But it's something that pertains to their audience. And she's like running it as if it was her own account, but it's a fake influencer and it's— her name's like Almost Quitting Megan. It's like a girl documenting her life as she's about to quit her job. And it's like a fake account, but it's a human being that's like running it. And so they just get it. They get like what the people would want to watch. And so we're going to go and create that. And so I think that's what everybody, everybody needs to think about. And if you look at your consumer's full day of all the different things that they watch, what you're saying, every brand needs to become a media company. What I think about when I think about my consumer's day, I'm like, what are all the different touchpoints of media that they have? Can we create different channels that take those moments and have them watching us versus watching the things that they're watching? So that to me is like different channel strategy. It's like, whatever, it could be like JT Barnett 1, JT Barnett 2, JT Barnett 3, all on Instagram. But JT Barnett 1 is gonna be me, raw thoughts on my walks. JT Barnett 2 is gonna be deep dive, more cinematic style. JT Barnett 3 might be my life. As a husband and like family. But all those different touchpoints are something that I know my consumer wants to see, but they can't all live on my one account because it's not the right strategy. So you need to launch these different ones and go deep with those different ones. We're really in the nuance, in the weeds here with this.

No, no, I love this. Yeah, I told you when I started the podcast it was for selfish reasons. And if someone wants to listen to it, like, that's awesome.

Cool. Yeah, exactly.

So for me, I'd rather go super deep on one thing than like sit here and go over the surface level.

Cool.

10 topics you've said on every podcast you've ever gone on.

So this is something I've not— I haven't talked about on any podcast. So this is something that I'm thinking about right now. My account right now on JT Barnard on Instagram covers entrepreneurship. It covers my family life with my wife. It covers me as a hockey player. It covers— I'm making coffees and talking about my coffee machine. As a strategist, when I look at my account, I'm like, not the right play. Those all 4 need to be completely different accounts because the way that the algorithms work is it's a recommendation engine. So the more data that you give this engine to recommend of who it's getting recommended to, the better your content has a chance of landing on that person's For You page organically. So if I post a video and I'm giving the data to Instagram that says the— then in the way they get the data is like the captions. It's like the, um, the caption that you write in, the subtitles, the title that you write on the video. Any audio you choose, the messages that you send in your DMs, the things you post to your story. Like, just think about anything that you're putting into Instagram. That is data that shows the algorithm who your videos should be shown to. So if I'm going and doing coffee review, then the second thing I'm doing is talking about hockey and the teams that I want and what in the playoffs and all that shit. And then number 3 is me trying to be a good husband and my dog River and my wife Sam and us moving to Austin and all that shit. Then number 4 is business. Now the algorithm has all 4 of these things that it's trying to show to somebody. And it's like, we don't know who to show this to, so we're going to test it and show it to a bunch of different people because we don't have real great data of who to show this to. Rather than if I am literally only talking about entrepreneurship and everything, every single thing is entrepreneurship, this entrepreneurship, that entrepreneurship, this, the algorithm over the course of me repeating that is going to get really clued in on this is an account for entrepreneurs. Let's show this to all entrepreneurs. And it's going to start showing it to more and more and more. And then it's just the, the, then the only thing you need to focus on is, is the video something that one of those people would actually want to watch? So then it's less about who's is getting recommended to and more so is this something that they would actually share, comment on, save, and like. And so what brands are doing right now and creators, myself, I'm the, worst client of myself right now. When brands are going and making their strategy, they go, hey, you know, our audience is into— we have, we have moms that are 35, we have young, you know, fitness guys that are 26, we have the Gen Z girlies that are in college. Let's make a post that's about our Gen Z girls in college. Then let's make one that really appeals to the moms that have dogs. Then let's make one for the bodybuilding guys and do like a vlog around bodybuilding. And like everything gets throttled because it's shown to all different kinds of people. And then the brand's like, well, why doesn't our stuff perform? And they go to the agency and the agency's like, you know, it just becomes a mess. The strategy that everybody should be thinking about is every single video that we post has to have the same end consumer in mind. And if we're going to deviate from that, it needs to be a different account that we're going deep with that next consumer on that different account. And we're just rinse and repeating for the course of 3, 4, 5 months. And testing out, you know, the different formats in that, like hooks and captions and that kind of stuff. But that's the actual test that you can get accurate data of, like what's actually working rather than it being like, we're going to merge it all into one. That's why brands need to become a media company.

Wow. I have so many questions right now. I'm like, I don't know if I'm paying attention. I'm just sitting here mesmerized, like taking this all in. This is extremely helpful. Two questions for you. The first one is Um, when you think about it from the perspective of like building a personal brand, right? So let's, let's take an example of like you're a creator, a brand comes to you, is like, I want to do a brand deal with you. In current state, it's like, here's JT's Instagram, I want to do a brand deal, I want you to post about my business on your Instagram. Future state or next iteration is like, yeah, this is JT home base, but like, do you want to do a fitness brand deal or like a hockey brand deal or family advertising slotting?

It's advertising slotting. You're literally a media company where you're like, hey, like, this is the conversation I'm gonna have. If we're like 3 year— I hope that in 3 years down the road I have these other ones built out. We can come have this podcast again and I'm gonna be like, listen, this is how it works. Brand comes to me that could appeal across these different channels and I'm like, hey, JT Barnett Life is getting an average of a million impressions a month with like, you know, an average of 50 comments on each one of those videos. JT Barnett entrepreneur is a little bit less than that, but like the density is much bigger and I'm like pitching them on all of these things. I'll be like, you want the whole, I can slot you in at one post a month for the next 3 months across all of these. Or I can do like an individual one for this individual one for that. I also think even just thinking about this now, this is all off the top of my head right now, by the way. This is new. This isn't something that's happened. I'm just thinking about it. But if a brand comes to me and they are really deep and they are someone that could go deep with my whole brand to go across those channels. If I know that the cinematic style, I do a deep dive, I'm going to be like, hey, I can offer you like a deep dive on your brand and have this ad perform to a different subset of your audience so I can sell this for a different price than me on my family one. That doesn't apply. So I'm just going to post like a static post with like my wife or my dog with your, with your product. This one you could run for an ad differently. So there's a lot more flexibility in there. I actually think it's a better play for creators now that I'm thinking about it, but that's the way it's gonna work. That's how it's gonna work.

Two more questions. One is, what are your thoughts on personal accounts versus like, I would, I guess I'll say business accounts. And I'll give you my context is like, I have a lot of really good clips from the podcast. I've done over 80 episodes, had some really interesting people. Is there value in having like a Turning Pro Podcast Instagram, or should that all live on the Ben Sharf Instagram? Same with like the Saw in a Cold Punch series that I'm doing, right? Like, I decided against having, uh, an account specific for that and do it through the Ben Sharf one. But I'm curious, uh, your perspective on knowing like what is the appropriate account for the content.

The person that you want being obsessed with it, are those 3 things all things that they would watch interchangeably? If not, like, if your community member, like the person that you want showing up to every event that you do and being the biggest advocate for Ben Sharf, that person that comes to mind, would they watch all 3 of these different things? If so, then yes, you could put them all on the same account because the algorithm is going to recommend it to that person. If not, which I think you probably should do, is I would have them as 3 separate things and I would just collab post on Instagram. Every time you do it. And the other platforms, I think like LinkedIn, you could probably post it more. Their algorithm is not the exact same. TikTok, I would do the same thing as Instagram post, and then they're going to have collab tool where you can collab as well.

But if you collab post on your personal account, aren't you doing the same level of dilution because it becomes a feed post?

But it's less because I think when you're doing the collabing, it's less data into the platform of, of like really showing who you are and more so Like, yes, to an extent, but I don't think that it like throttles it the same way as you like posting all of those.

Interesting.

The same one.

And then my next question is this can also be overwhelming when you like try to figure out both from the perspective of like, for sure, JT is a brand and then also like a business is a brand for sure. What is your advice around resource constraints and then just prioritization?

Yeah, let me see this. First thing is this sucks. I'll be the first person to say it's building what— let me also say this. People that have massive followings, massive followings that they've been building for years, that doesn't matter anymore. Like that does not— that your content does not get shown on the majority of platforms, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn. It still does. Following is shown very similarly, but Instagram, TikTok, YouTube are all lending themselves more so as recommendation and discovery platforms. Which means brand new accounts today can start, post a video that's a great video and be seen by 30, 40, 50,000 people, like limitless reach. That was not the case before when the game was build following and then every piece of content gets shown to your following. So the bigger your following is, the more you have. Like, it works like an email list. You have somebody subscribe, everything is sent to them. They get to choose if they interact with it or not, but everything is landing on their page. Now it's completely different where it's like you're starting from scratch essentially every video. You're starting from— you're not starting from scratch. You're starting from what the algorithm remembers you based off of your recent videos, not off of who's following you.

So do you feel as though like engagement has changed or like how the platform rewards engagement, I guess, is a better way to phrase it?

The platform rewards engagement based off of the recent videos that you have created and the interactions you have taken recently. So who you've DM'd with, who's DM'd with, who sent you messages. Who's commented, who you're commenting on, who you're watching, who's watched your last videos. That's it. It's not following. It's not about following anymore. So the— so that is what I'm saying of like, that sucks because the people that have been building for so long with followings, it's just a much different game for them now. And in a sense, like, that's just less prioritized. And it also sucks because this strategy that I'm talking about of launching all these different channels from an admin side is a nightmare, like posting and managing DMs and comments on all these different places. But that's the— it is the strategy that I would recommend the most. And what I would say is like on these other ones, uh, you can turn off messages or you can have like an auto forward and auto reply. I would turn that on for all of your other ones and then just say the only one that I message on is this main one. So that people are getting pushed to that main line.

Does Instagram have auto-forwarding on messages?

It has auto-reply, so it can auto-reply to every message. So you get a DM, the reply back will be like, hey, this is JT. I have all these different accounts. The only one I really check my DMs on is JT Barnett. That's it. So if you want to message me, message me there. I'll talk to you there. Or you could do an email, you know, something like that. Um, the social media manager side, I do think that a new role that will happen, whether this is AI or a person, is gonna be just somebody just deploying, not actually community managing and like being in the weeds with comment sections, but literally just going and posting native to each platform with every piece of content that comes out and like managing it that way. Um, but I think that the platforms are going to see this and they're going to make it easier. And like, we're in stage 1 of this where it's like, yeah, it sucks, but that's the way I would do it.

This is going to be— that's your idea for the, uh, the Creator X software platform is like, yeah, just put a brand comes to you, it's like, we'll make your 40 accounts for you across all your channels and we'll spin up your handles and we'll give you the tool where you make one video and it will decide which seconds of which videos should be cut into Shorts and which channel it should be put on.

There's already a thing that does that, it's called repurpose.io, and it does a good job of it, but it still is like, I think you need a person that really understands the context of each platform. Because you post one thing and you can tell it gets posted to everything. And like, it just— you got to go deep. You got to go deep. You got to go really deep into your person to understand what they're watching. And then like, does that change for them on each platform? If so, then you need to alter it for that. That's kind of way.

So step 1 is the process to maximize distribution. And step 2 is now that you have eyeballs, how do you actually build and manage the community?

Step 1 is identify, identify our persona and really understand them like a human being. Step 2 is map to that. What are they watching? How do we create that? And then step 3 is like execute, like actually go and create the things that you think they might watch and just reiterate, reiterate, reiterate. I think you start with one account before trying to launch like all 6 of these different ones. Like I think you just, It's too hard for a person that hasn't done anything to go and try and launch 4 right now. So I would launch one that you feel has probably the easiest on the creation side for you to— if you're, if you're literally a beginner listening to this, I wouldn't try and do everything that I'm saying right now. I would start with one account with the style of content that comes natural to you the most, that you have the most excitement around versus like sounds the most stressful. And I would look at how many people, how much people are posting around you in that same niche that you're in. And I would try and double that output. And every one of the videos that you're posting, I would just try and get a little bit better. And I would get really, really good at letting things get posted with 80% certainty and not 100% perfectionism. And just like get a little bit better with every one of those until you start cracking the code. And then I would double down on the ones that win.

More broadly though, what would you say are the biggest mistakes you see people making around just community building right now? I feel like you have a lot of thoughts on that topic.

I don't think people actually really even understand what community is. Like, I think that brands say community, but what they really mean is like a microphone where we can yell at more of our customers and have one central place that they're all located. And like, community in essence is like something that could exist without your brand. Like, meaning brands will start these channels. Brands and creators do this. They start a Discord channel, but the Discord channel is like the creator just like talking to all the people. And there's no like commonality between why these people are there. And if the creator gets removed from it, that community doesn't still exist. And that community would just, you know, vanish, go be empty. And so what I think brands should be thinking about with their community is like, what is our community actually rally around prior to our brand existing and beyond our brand existing? What is the community actually rallied around? My wife has done a really good job around this with Form and like their community rallies around getting, creating a better life for themselves through health and wellness. And like if my wife and her company wasn't there, And after it's done, they, that community could still exist cuz it's a lot of women that are talking with each other about what they're doing to improve their life. Form just happens to be inserted in there as the community, as the person that has, that is hosting it and their products just happen to help those people. And that's what I think brands need to think about. It's like, what is our person actually interested in that we could create community around and we just be the host of. And our products just happen to help them with. And then there's less pressure on it being like, we're the reason for this community. And like, you know, and that's where I think brands go wrong is like they try to be the reason for the community rather than really meet the community where they're at and just happen to congregate it.

I feel like it's at some point a brand hits an inflection point where it's like, you got this far. Maybe it's because you built a really good product, right? You got this far, then you fooled yourself into thinking you built a community because you had a bunch of people who like bought your products. And so you kind of just associated them all together. Like, you guys are the community, whether that's in the form of like Instagram followers or the 200 people who showed up to the pop-up to buy the one product. But I think you make a really good point where it's like that line is so blurred, and a lot of brand builders who don't actually understand the core pillars of community, at least in my opinion through the lens that you're describing it, they think they have a community but they don't actually understand what community means.

Yeah, right.

So to your point, it's like you can remove— if you can build a community the way that you describe building community and the brand disappears overnight, but that community is still cohesive, that to me is actually like the pressure test for how would we rate the community that you've built thus far.

For sure. I mean, dude, community can mean two things. Like, the actual definition of community could be like just a place of that people are congregating. It's like my community center. It's like that's just the area around that actual place. But then there's also the meaning of community where it's like emotional connection off of some sort of thing that we all have in relation with each other. That second one is what I think everybody actually wants. But I think the first one is what brands actually are like. Most brands are creating.

It's like, but they don't realize it sometimes.

Yeah, for sure. All of these people just happen to buy our product and we, or maybe you're their repeat purchasers. but like them just buying the product is not actually, does not mean that they are community. Community inherently, the way that you want it is like an, a very emotional thing. What is the actual reasons? Usually it has something to do with like your purpose, like your identity, your connection to something. So when you're thinking about what's our community, it's actually like, why is our community, or like, what is our community rallied around that our brand happens to do? And that'll actually get you much closer to like really building what I think brands want as like, I think you want a bunch of advocates. I think you want a bunch of people talking about you that genuinely love you, that would talk about you in a positive light regardless if you were there or not. And that to me is like really built by understanding who your people are and what they care about.

I also think that as like the world of AI progresses and things can be commoditized so much faster, like on the software side, also on the brand side. Yeah, you walk into the deli next door and go buy a drink and tell me the difference between the 700 canned drinks that are there. Like, as a new consumer, how the hell are you expecting them to look at something where every can looks basically the same but like not exactly and decipher like, why am I going to grab this one instead of that one? Community is like the one thing that's actually defensible.

Great point, because I've been doing a lot of like deep research. This is one of my favorite things to do. I'm, I love AI. I'm a big advocate for it. I use ChatGPT often. I'm in, and like something that I think everybody should do is use the deep research function on ChatGPT and just play around with it. And I just have been asking questions like, where do you see the next couple of years with, with social, with startups, with X, Y, and Z. And from my time spending on that and seeing platforms like, do you know Pietra? Yeah.

Ro was on the podcast.

Okay, cool. So Pietra has come and made it absolutely, like, literally overnight easy to start an actual physical product and a quality one. And so when you're doing— when that's easier, and then when GPT-40 came out with image generation and like people are kind of graphic designers overnight, like, let's say it's not perfect, but like the tools of doing things is much easier and will get more and more easy. For me, I'm like, okay, well, like, what is— what's the thing that anybody is going to really be focusing on or want or like differentiated by? To me, it's the emotional connection that you're going to have with your consumer and the nuanced understanding of them. Because you're right, when you go and look at that drink fridge and all of them look somewhat similar, how do you actually like choose the one that's going to relate to you? That person that started the drink has to have a very specific understanding of the person. That's going to get them to pop, that's going to get it to pop or get it to stand out different than all of the others. So I just think that like the nuanced understanding, the emotional side of things is all the stuff that I like really put my focus on. And I think that people should be thinking about.

And I also think the— it's like the most clear path, in my opinion, of like if you want to build a business for exit, understanding that like the large guys right now are trying to figure out like how do we make our businesses more relatable? Uh, like, look at what just happened with Poppy.

Yeah, right?

Like, that's a perfect example of these businesses are having these large exits to these bigger corporations because they have the resources to inorganically, like, go after the thing that they feel has their pulse on, like, the next trend, right? It's not that easy for Pepsi to wake up tomorrow and decide we're gonna build an emotional connection with our community, right? Like, imagine, imagine you walking into the CEO's office and be like, your job is to build an emotional connection with your community. it's going to take them years for sure, just to let— just till every employee in the company knows that that's the initiative, it's going to take months, right? So I think that, uh, it's, it's a very interesting topic to go deep on because there's really a way that you can reverse engineer, uh, how you build something that's like super sticky in the realm of product and community. Because I think a lot of people build a product because the product is a novel idea, which there's nothing wrong with like starting in that way. Uh, but they kind of just build it and then put it out into the world versus like building it and being like, it's the 35-year-old stay-at-home mom who has, you know, this income, so on and so forth, uh, that's going to buy this. Now we need to figure out like what are the pillars of this that are going to appeal to that.

Totally, completely agree with you. Yeah, when I think about the brands that are crushing it today, I'm like, it seems like the focus on the consumer and building that emotional connection is the thing that I would recommend everybody to focus on.

I, I'm sitting here like this. I feel like I talk to consumer brands all day in my line of work. Granted, I live on the software side of things, but I'm like, I don't— I just feel like there's so many brands that are actually doing well that still don't understand. They're not even thinking about this thing, let alone having cracked the code on it. Uh, which is why it's like, imagine what, what it would be if you were spot on on this.

Totally. It's the same boat. I talk to a lot of brands every week and it The first question that I ask is like, first question that I usually ask is, why do you, why do you exist? Why do you do what you do?

What are some of the craziest answers you've gotten? And you don't have to like name the—

I actually think that the biggest surprise is like a lot of people don't even know that. Like why? Like, I mean, like not why, like usually what we get is some sort of like, we saw this market, we saw that like consumers were purchasing and that we saw that things were trending in this direction and we had this background. So this, but it's much less on like, dude, I really want to help XYZ, you know? And so that's what I think people need to bake into it.

XYZ in terms of like the person or the people.

Yeah. Like I want to help, like Poppy, for example. She was like, I struggled with gut health. I knew that one, gut health was not cool to talk about as a woman. Like it was— it's not cool to talk about in general, but like girls weren't talking about gut health. I struggled with it. There was no solutions, and I wanted to make health be something that could be fun. So like our branding was then fun. We wanted girls to talk about their gut health. We made a product that could actually come up, come and like help your gut health. And it was like there was a really strong why in that. Um, and I just think that that's, that's like where you should start, or at least you should, if you haven't started there, you should at least think about it.

I want to talk about the, uh, dynamic that you have with your wife. I think it's so cool because you're both full-time content creators and business operators, uh, but also it's like she's, she's building the brand that you obsess over, like the core pillars of how you should go about building it. And you were showing me, uh, before we filmed this, like the full breakdown that you did on their community and the fact that it's not a coincidence that like I went to a Barry's class at 5 AM today and the girl next to me is like head to toe in form gear. It's not a coincidence at all. Um, I'm very curious to understand, like, what is, what is your life like with someone who's like on a very similar wavelength to you in terms of like building? Like, do you guys have, uh, boundaries in terms of even when you're talking about business versus not? Or is it inherent? We just know we do everyday life. It is. You guys enjoy it.

It's mixed in because again, um, or like we were just talking about in the sauna, my, um, my business is my sport. And same with her. Like, our work is literally like the game that we get to play that we feel like we've been gifted and also have worked really hard to be talented at, that we love playing. And then like, we get to leave that and like be home and like build a family together. So there's this— there's, um, I guess it— I guess it would say a boundary. I would just say it's, it's blended, but like, we don't— there's no like at home being like, we're both entrepreneurs and we gotta get on top of each other about this and this. It's, uh, it's very, I guess I would just say it's very like familial. Um, we both love what we do. From my aspect of it, I have got to see Sam start from when she was, my wife was initially, uh, did modeling in Los Angeles and then got into health and wellness while I was still playing. So I got to see her literally build from zero. Into building this community that now she's launched this, this platform and app and all that from. And she's just a— all I can say, she's just a natural. Like, she's just a natural at what she does. And I can say that because I know that she also is a— she's really a natural creator, but she is so not technologically savvy that it's hilarious for me at home to like make fun of her because she just is like I like, I only, only way I could put it is like a 65-year-old that doesn't understand anything on social and technology. So for her to be able to have built this just shows that she is doing exactly what she should be doing. And it's so like her spirit, like put into the business because she hasn't like hacked it. She hasn't like hacked her way to, and I think that I am more of like the strategy side of like really being a little more methodical and like looking at and, you know, kind of, I wouldn't say maybe even a little hacky, like understanding like the little things that you can do. And so I would say when we are home and we're talking about business, I am giving her those kind of things and ideas. And that's one of the ways that we're talking about business, or she is telling me the things that they're doing just off of intuition. And I'm like, that's such a sick idea. Like, that's incredible that you guys came up with that without like it being this, without you guys being this like savvy with, with content and stuff. So it's been really fun. Um, they're definitely a case study that I, I would like to talk about more. I don't know why I don't honestly, I think that it's just like, I like that. I like being able to support and I don't want to be on every podcast being like, look at Form, look at what they're doing. No, of course.

Yeah. But like, it's dude, it's insane. And I think there's. There's a lot of people who— because like, from my perspective, obviously I know you on a personal level. I don't know your wife that well, but if I could describe what I see in one word, it's authentic.

Yeah, right.

Like, it seems like there's nothing about it to me that's disingenuous. It's like she actually cares about her people, and it's so obvious. Um, but I also just think there's an element of it where like you definitely played a big part in terms of like what they've done or how they've gone about doing it, and I think it's not fair. It's not fair for you to just be like, I don't want to talk about it because it's my wife and I don't need to, like, take credit for the success they've had. But like, in the context of what you do and how you think about business building and brand building, like, by all accounts, the way— like, what you showed me on that Canva deck, like, dude, you understand their business inside out.

And it's not that I don't want to. It's not that I'm like, no, I don't want to talk about my wife. No, it's— it's— I totally hear you and I'm happy to. And I like when people bring it up because genuinely The blueprint that I'm going and giving brands when they're hiring us as strategists, hiring us to do recruiting, is literally what Form has done. It's the exact thing. It's the exact playbook. It's textbook. When I showed you that thing with them, that's basically like a kind of like a consumer insight deck and strategy for more social. My only thing to them was like, more, more of the same. Do more of the same. For other brands, I'm like, yo, you guys got to go left field and like, switch this. They've really done that. They've been what— and like, for you guys that don't know who they are, what they've done, the playbook that they've really done well is community informs everything. And then, and then media is the way that we're going to get more people into our ecosystem. So Sam, my wife, is a health wellness creator who like started with workouts and then nutrition and all of that and just like genuinely wanted to help her community. And then they started asking her, do you have a place that we could do workouts? So she started putting them on YouTube and on YouTube they started popping off and like more and more comments started saying, is there, do you have an app? You should start an app. We're think, have you ever thought about starting an app? So she literally built this not just for her community, but with her community till still to this day. They've now launched apparel, they've launched journals, they've launched like a lot, a lot of different consumer items. To this day, every one of their decisions goes through their WhatsApp group that they have with the community for them to decide on what they should be doing. So for example, apparel, they do, uh, like tops and leggings. They had 3 different colorways that they were thinking about launching. They sat in an office, Brand decided, let's go with this colorway. They then went to the community, said, what 3, here's 3 options. What colorway do you guys want? Community went a different way. They launched with what the community wanted and they sold out immediately. So they go with what the community wants. They build with the community. They— that's what I mean of like, they like genuinely care about them. They're doing it for them. They like really— and, um, that's the way they've been able to like really build and bootstrapped. They're moving really quick. It's been really fun.

You know, the most underrated part about that is like if you actually just spend a little bit of time on curating the people that solve— that the people that want you to to help them solve the problem that you're after, it actually makes the business a hell of a lot easier because you don't have to sit here thinking like, oh, I'm going to come up with some novel idea of like how I'm going to sell this product or what I'm going to sell. And this concept of crowdsourcing knowledge from community, like people know intuitively it's a good idea, but very few people actually build the community the way that you've described to be able to leverage that. Like for, for Sam and her partner now, like honestly, as crazy as it sounds, for the next 5 years or 10 years, they can do nothing beyond just like listen to what people are saying to them and do that and just continue to like show up and be authentic for their people. And this business is just going to continue to go up and to the right.

Yep, I agree. They— and they'll— the new ideas for what they should do next sometimes don't even come from the executive team sitting around a table. They'll literally go and they'll get on Zoom. This is what I mean by brands like spending real time with their community. Like they do monthly Zooms where they'll be like, hey, first 30 people into the Zoom, we're doing a Q&A, jump in. And they'll just like hang out with the people in their community. And in those kind of Zooms, they'll say, guys, floor is open for you guys. If we could build anything, what would you guys want us to add? Literally anything in the world. If there's anything we could do for you, what would we do? And like, people just throw out ideas like pop-up in New York, which is what we're doing this podcast because of. And they'll give like, you know, all these different ideas that a podcast, you guys should start a podcast, which is why they started the podcast. So you'd just be surprised. I mean, it sounds, it's the, it's literally the most common sense thing ever to like spend time with the person you're building the product for and like help them. Um, but yeah, I think, I think businesses get a little bit removed from it. I think that when founders usually start the business, they're very close to it. But I think when scale happens and you get a little bit more removed and a little bit more removed. Or just your focus shifts, you take in money, you know, just there's a lot of different reasons. But I do think that the way that I would, I would go and do it is like, can you create that connection now and spend real time with them to have those insights delivered to you?

It's so funny though, because you make that comment of like, it's common sense. But I would say one of the, one of the things I've learned over the last couple of years of building my business, I actually made a tweet about this this morning, is that people are 10 times less logical than you think they are.

Right?

Like you say something and it feels obvious to you because it's your subject matter, uh, and it feels so obvious to you when you think about the spectrum of your knowledge, but to someone else it's definitely not obvious. Um, and I think that was a really good piece of advice someone gave me in the context of if you get on the phone with someone who maybe has been in the industry longer than you, has a bigger title than you, has a bigger company than you, you might feel this sense of insecurity of saying something where in the back of your head you're like, dude, this is so obvious. Like, how the fuck do you not know this? To the point where you're like, I might just not say it. Uh, but I've learned that this is so not the case, right? Like, that's also part of the reason— it's also part of the reason that your business exists, whether you realize it or not, is like, you're gonna take that playbook you did with Form and you're gonna go talk to some of the largest brands in the world, and in your mind you're like, wait, so you have a $50 million company but you can't actually tell me like what your consumer likes to do or like the type of content they consume? And they're probably gonna be like, no, like, why would I know that? Like, we sold $50 million of product last year. And you're gonna be like, Isn't it obvious? The answer is it's actually not.

I love to hear that. I love to hear that, and I'm happy to help. And yeah, I think you do get, you get kind of like in your own bubble. Um, so that's why it's fun to come do things like this and be able to like talk about the stuff that I'm up to.

What about, um, in your personal life, like what are your non-negotiables, uh, in your days that keep you sane? Because something I appreciate about you is I feel like you're not someone who gives off that like vibe of I need to work. Not that you don't work hard, but you're not someone who's like, I gotta work all hours of the day, I'm not sleeping, I'm not exercising. Like, if I don't do more, like, faster, it's not gonna work. And I think, like, your wife is the same, where it's like their whole brand is about, like, health and wellness and taking care of yourself. So they obviously have to do what they preach, and it clearly works for them.

Yeah. Uh, non-negotiable, I think for me it's just, like, taking care of myself. Like, I have been in— I've gone to therapy now for 10 years. I know myself very well. I know moments where I need to like really slow down. I know moments where I'm like really passionate about something like right now and my sleep is terrible and I'm working 12 hours a day because I'm really passionate about it. And I know that it's a moment and I'm not like judging myself about it. And so I would say really get it, taking the time when I got done with hockey to learn myself and like really understand who am I, what do I care about, how do I How do I work my best? Has, has made me the entrepreneur that I am today and like makes me the best in my business, makes me the best to show up for the people on my team, for my clients. So it's just learning myself and taking care of myself.

What does taking care of yourself mean to you, though? I feel like everyone has a different version of that.

The reason why it's not a blanket thing is— blanket statement is some days taking care of myself is me waking up making a coffee and opening my laptop because I'm so passionate about what I'm doing and I genuinely feel like it's giving me energy rather than depleting it. And I listen to myself. So I would say this, I do take every— when I start every day, the first thing that I do is take a moment for myself, check in with myself. Some days that's me meditating for 3, 4, 5 minutes on Headspace. Some days that's me just sitting in silence in my living room for a couple of minutes and just being like, hey, How are we feeling? What do we need right now? That leads me to what I was just telling you. After that, some days it is, I want a fucking espresso and I want to open my computer and start playing music and get into it because I'm passionate about this in this moment and I'm like fired up about what I'm going to do today and it's giving me energy. Other days I'm like, I literally cannot get on my phone or computer until 9:10 AM today and I need the whole morning to go to a coffee shop, go do sauna and cold plunge with some friends, go on a walk, go down to the beach. And it's like full morning is to myself. And then at 9 or 10, I can sit down at my computer because the stuff that I'm working on is not giving me the same amount of energy. So I think it's always me sitting and checking in with myself and being like, what do I need? And then giving myself that.

You're an early riser, aren't you?

Yeah, I like waking up early. I go to bed early. My Oura Ring has told me that I'm supposed to go to bed at 8:50 and wake up at 4:50. I've been trying to get closer to that, but I usually go to bed before 10 and try to wake up at like 5. Wow.

Yeah. That's res— I respect that.

What's your— wait, what do you wake up at?

Uh, I would say that my average wake up is between 6:30 and 7.

That's not bad. Yeah. When do you go to bed?

But 5:00 AM is like, I, I think there's a huge difference between 5:00 AM and 6:30.

When do you go to bed?

Uh, during NHL playoffs, it's my schedule's a little out of whack, but I would say normally it's typically between 10 and 10:45.

Yeah. That's good.

That's not a bad skill at all. I'm a huge sleep nerd. Yeah, we, we don't have to obsess about that in this conversation, but it's something that I also love going down that rabbit hole. Over the last couple of years, what would you say has been your biggest turning pro moment where you just feel like—

Last couple of years or like last 10?

I'm just going to leave it open.

Quitting hockey and being like, I'm going to bet on myself for sure. To me, that actually is like when my life really started. Was like quitting hockey, meeting Sam, moving to Los Angeles. No, no college degree. No, not even. I don't even have a high school diploma. No, no. I didn't know that. Yeah.

What was the last year you dropped off?

Uh, when I was playing hockey, I went to 10th— I went to 9th grade in Scottsdale, moved to Canada for hockey, went 10, 11, 12, only half days because in Canada when you're playing in juniors, they don't actually make you And the last year when I was in 12th grade, I got traded before middle of, like, middle of season. So I didn't even finish this last, my senior year. They don't call it senior year, but yeah. So no call. So for me, it was quitting hockey. No, $0 in my bank. Never made a penny from hockey. Left hockey with $0 saved. No jobs lined up. No interest in going and doing a job. No college degree. No high school diploma. New city, moving to Los Angeles. New relationship. First year dating Samantha, moved in with her, and my whole family leaving Scottsdale, which was my home, and moving to Texas. So my whole world was like completely flipped when I retired. And I think that that created a lot of like, oh, I gotta like really get after this. And like, I'm betting on myself and I'm not gonna go work a job and I'm gonna go figure this out. And so I think that I had like a crash course in like figuring it out and That was my turning pro moment.

Wow. I think that's a good place to wrap. You want to just look at this camera and let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah.

Appreciate you guys listening. Everything for me is JT Barnett. Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, all of it. And my company is called Creator X. If you're a brand that's ever needing help with anything social, hit us up.

Thanks for coming on today.

I appreciate it. It was great, bro. Glad that we did this. [MUSIC] [MUSIC]