How to Truly Connect on LinkedIn and Turn Contacts into Clients with Natasha Walstra

Most people treat LinkedIn growth, LinkedIn growth as a numbers game. More posts, more views, more followers. But what if you don't need more strangers in your network? What if your next sale, next client, or next big opportunity wasn't somewhere out there, but it's already here in your network, warm and waiting, just one message away. Today's guest helps founders stop chasing reach and start building relationships that actually grow business. Hey, what's going on everyone? I'm Mike Sirius and this is Mastering Tech Growth. Every week we chat with industry leaders to bring you no-fluff tips on how to grow. If you enjoy the show, please do me a favor, hit that subscribe button and do send me your biggest growth questions at masteringtechgrowth.com. I'd love to know what you're working on and what's getting in your way. Joining me today is Natasha Volstra. Natasha helps founders turn relationships into revenue using smart content, strategic outreach, and the network they already have. Her clients don't chase followers. They get sales, calls, replies, real momentum just by showing up with the right message to the right people. She built this approach after leading brand strategy at Carbon and Forbes Book and now runs Nearpoint, where she helps businesses turn conversations into clients every day. Welcome, Natasha.

Thank you so much, Mike. I'm excited to be here.

I just figured out, y'all listeners, so Natasha Wolstra, Wolstra being the last name literally means Wall Street in Dutch, right? That's just money right there in your name. It's baked in. I wanted to mention that. That's very cool. Very cool last name. So we love to kick off the show, Natasha, with this question. When I say mastering tech growth, what comes to mind?

Ooh, that's interesting. Mastering tech growth. It's funny because growth, the word itself, like I look at it more in the revenue side, not in the vanity metric side. So when I think about that, when it comes to tech, It would be like not having necessarily like all the tech, but having the right tech for you. That's what I think of.

Okay, so when you say not vanity metric, what's a vanity metric around growth for you?

Likes, impressions, comments, all that type of thing.

Yeah. Yeah, we don't really care about that. That's not really what moves the needle. That's what we're saying. Like growth actually is Cash flow, money coming in, revenue. Revenue.

Yeah, that's what I would say. You know, genuine relationships that lead to real revenue.

Yeah.

Right. That's growth. Okay. But if you look at a bunch of likes, who knows what that actually means, right?

Exactly. Maybe it's just bots liking, you know, something you just posted. And I resonate with this so, so strongly, right? So we produce lots of content. We talk with industry leaders just like you. We do a lot of Shorts. You know, we push that out in YouTube and TikTok and in all all the socials, LinkedIn included. And of course there's many likes, right? Of course there's many views you're getting, but at the end of the day it's like, well, great, like what does that really mean? You know, what is your real growth metric? For us as a show, it's actually we want to talk with people, like we want to actually engage, get comments, and, you know, get them asking questions. That doesn't translate directly to likes. You know, you get one comment to like 1,000 likes. So likes isn't that growth metric we're talking about, right? So I want to start with this, you know, relationship approach, which you just mentioned, Natasha. So I got a network of something like 8,000 people, something like that. Some I do know, but I'll be very, very honest. I sometimes accept connection requests without really thinking twice because it just grows that number. I used to feel good about this. Now I know it's just a number. It's just a vanity metric. But how do you, like, what's number step or what's your framework in looking at the network I have right now or, you know, people you sort of have and go like, okay, we're gonna go after these people because they are warm leads. Like there's something over here.

Sure. Well, I think it's a combination also, not just of like the numbers of connections that you have on LinkedIn. Think about like in your real life, who are your actual relationships in that capacity, right? Like who are you connected to? Who are you? Who's in your circle. And what we're trying to do is just amplify that on LinkedIn. And so that means like, yes, it's engaging with the people that are already in your network, but again, you may not know everybody on there, so find ways to connect with them, right? And that's through this combination of both content and conversations, right? That's where real magic ends up happening. But it's not, um, you know, it's not just about, uh, Like engage, like DMing everybody in your network right now, right? Like there's a way to, cuz not everybody is gonna be a good fit. I'm the same way. I used to add a lot of people into my network, especially when I was in previous sales roles. Like a lot of my network's still in like the manufacturing space as an example. So like maybe not great fits today, but for the most part you wanna be just trying to replicate what is going on in your real life. Like who are you actually engaging with that's moving the needle in your business, and now figure out how we can do that on LinkedIn.

So then it starts by really defining, okay, what, what, what do I do? What do I sell? Or what is my service? Or how do I serve? Like, what, what is the problem I'm solving? And then you get your, like, uh, like a circle around that, like, whoever is in my network who would benefit from what I'm offering. And that becomes like your segment one or something like that, right? And then, and then effectively that's That's your warm outreach because you already have these people in your network. They literally like just like one DM away, right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah, exactly. And as you are engaging with them, you're also creating content that's talking to the problem that you solve or that problem that they have.

Okay.

Right, so then there's that feeling of like, okay, wait, she clearly knows what she's talking about. She's talking to me, I feel, right? And so when you start to engage with them in the DMs, then it feels just more natural, if that makes sense.

It does make perfect sense. How problematic is the fact that I want to talk about multiple problems like, you know, mastering tech growth or tech growth in general? That can, that can be LinkedIn, you know, founder-led content for business relationship. That can be technology, that can be leadership, can be sales, can be marketing. I mean, the topic is so wide. How bad is the fact that I would be just Like just attacking all these like niches or industries or like, yeah, how bad is that?

I mean, that's a good question because it's like the whole to niche or not to niche, right? Um, I, it was causing me a lot of anxiety a couple months ago when I was like, I need to niche down, and I'm not niched at all. I serve all sorts of industries, all types of people, um, teams, individuals. I'm kind of all over the place myself, but I think the, the service that I offer is niche enough that it works in some, in that capacity, if that makes sense. So I think when, you know, when you have a lot of problems that you solve, it's all still connected what you're doing, right? This idea of mastering tech, like there's still like a bigger picture that you're talking to. So maybe your niche is a little bit more zoomed out than some people who's very, very, very specific. I think at some point you might figure out where it's resonating more and where you're getting more traction and you might want to be prioritizing that versus trying to speak to everybody because if you're speaking to everybody, you're speaking to nobody as they say. So it's still trying to—

You broke my heart. I want to speak with everybody. I'm so bad at this. I honestly so bad at this, Natasha. So you're still saying that eventually you should still target a niche segment.

I think if you're, you know, if you want to be known for like this thing and be the expert in this specific thing, having it more focused is going to be beneficial because there's just so much noise out there right now. Maybe down the line as you get bigger and you've grown to a certain point, then you can speak to everybody. Like, you know, I think Tony Robbins, he literally could talk to everybody at this point, right? But it didn't necessarily start that way. And that's kind of what you want to be thinking about, at least as you're getting going Maybe try it. I mean, there's a reason why people say to niche down, um, and you know, the, the— it does work. It seems counterintuitive. And so even for me, like, I think eventually I'll, I'll probably focus more in a certain area, but right now I just, I don't, I don't need to because I'm getting enough clients the way it is. So I have to see.

So yeah, I mean, when we launched the show, uh, which was almost, well, a year and a half now, So when we were launching, we launched with an agency who sort of helps us to put the audio together and distribute and everything. And they advised to go niche. They were like, look, no, it's way too wide. Choose one, choose leadership, choose sales, choose marketing, do one. I'm like, nah, I'm gonna talk with everyone. That's what I do professionally. I just wanna know more. And now reflecting back, I'm like, yeah, we probably should have niche down. 'Cause when you think about people listening, they might listen and then they might buy into, for example, this episode, which talks about the importance of actually building B2B relationships or even B2C relationships on LinkedIn. And then next episode will be something like marketing, and they'll be like, I don't know if that's related, right? So you give like a way much too broad flavor of topics, and that sometimes, uh, you know, off-puts people. But I'm like, okay, well, if I love to learn a lot about the whole big industry, which is tech, maybe, just maybe, there's people like me who will enjoy the same. So I'm like, you know what, let's see what happens.

Great. You do you, Mike.

Yeah. Let's see what happens.

No, I mean, honestly, it's not like, there are best practices for a reason. If it's working, you're a year and a half in, right? Maybe in this case, you're an anomaly in that sense. Like I said, I haven't niched either, so.

Good, we're not like, we should make a post together at Attaché and just go like, we're not niching down, we're not listening to what you're saying. But to that extent, someone on the show very cleverly said that if you don't niche down, it means you're not unpacking a particular niche or topics in that niche, but then with time, you basically become the thing why people come to listen to you. So initially they come to listen to your solutions and your thoughts and your point of view on a specific problem or a topic, With time, they come to listen to you because, you know, you can talk about anything. So they come to listen to you as a person because they develop maybe trust with you or authenticity or whatever. They enjoy effectively reading your content, listening to you. So they come to you, not to the topic. But that takes a lot of time. Like, that's, you know, years and years of just mastering your own craft. Pretty much. Right.

And who's got patience for that these days, I guess, too.

Yeah, the consistency is a different topic we can go into. So I want to read this quote from HubSpot. Relationship built on existing trust close 3 times faster than the cold outreach when it comes to leads, right? So I feel like this is important to listeners to understand is that if you have a network, you already in theory have a relationship. You just need to sort of amplify that build that trust and potentially that, you know, leads to a close, hopefully. So a question to you, Natasha, is that how do I even sort of start that? Like, what's my low-hanging fruits? Or like, like the approach I'm taking from like, I have people in my network, I sort of like identify that smaller circle which I want to go after, but how do I even like know who's actually warm or warmish? It's like, is there a way to judge?

So I'm in this totally for like the long game. And obviously I understand that like in some cases you need to get leads, like clients tomorrow. And so there's sort of a different approach to how you would be going into the DMs if you're very much like, I need something tomorrow. But, and let's say like I am trying to close clients tomorrow. And so I, do this, but it's been a long time that like I don't necessarily have the same approach and I'm, I'm backtracking a little bit here because the way that I started to look at LinkedIn that I think is really beneficial just given like everybody is so tired of being pitched to on LinkedIn.

Oh my God. Yes.

It's just left and right. Like you can also like tell when someone's like, they're clearly going to pitch me, so just get it outta the way at this point.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. So like the way that I do this, it's, It's about like the way I think about LinkedIn, like I was saying, is I look at my network as if they are my colleagues. So I even used to think of LinkedIn as this never-ending borderless digital conference where everyone's down to connect and network. But then I realized people aren't very good at networking either. And so, and they go, they still go up and, you know, pitch you right away at times, or like talk about themselves all, you know, for 5 minutes straight. And so instead, the way I'm looking at this is. You know, think of these as your colleagues. So there's not this ulterior motive of me wanting to sell you something. It's like, how can we serve each other? How can we support one another? And by doing that, um, with that, you know, while still hanging out in crowds of people that may need your services or that have a problem that you solve, like there's sometimes, and more often than not, like there could be opportunity to collaborate, whether it's referrals, whether it's clients, maybe they actually are really going to need your support. But I don't go in with that intention necessarily now. I really want to find a way, like, how can I better serve my community and my colleagues? And through doing that genuinely and authentically, I have opportunities happening left and right. They're always thinking about me. Somebody will, every week, hey, my so-and-so needs this, or my wife— someone last week was saying, my wife needs 'Hey, I know somebody that does this,' right? Like, it's happening all the time now because I'm consistently, genuinely providing value to my network. You know what I mean? Not just like providing value.

Well, let's dig into that providing value because I feel there's a, you know, devil's in the details. So I went with this approach, you know, it's like I read a couple of books. I can't remember who that was. I think it was Gary Vee books, but it was about about provide the value to the network, you know, just basically share pretty much everything. Just don't share how you do things, but everything else you can share, right? So, and I was sharing and I was sharing and then, you know, it leads somewhere. People start asking questions and you help and help. And then I realized that I just helping everyone, right? And then look, like my time is limited as well, right? Like at some point, I need to convert that time into, into a cash flow because I need to pay the bills. And like, I can't be just online helping everyone. So this— I feel like there's, um, you know, like, like that is like how much you give that value. Like, what, what's, what's just giving a value? Like, let's define that. Like, what's in your view, Natasha, is like providing value to my network?

So maybe it's not necessarily in like the informational sense, but it's connecting them with somebody who might be able to I can support them with in something they have. If it's a like specific thing, um, Loom is great, right? Instead of jumping on a call with everybody left and right, like I've sent Looms. If they're struggling with a certain thing, I'll just like make a quick little video, um, and then they're getting to know me a little bit better. So I'm still building that trust and the relationship, but it's not like I'm jumping on a random coffee call now, right? So it's, it's little things like that, but it's— I do— there is a fine line of like, am I giving too much value away? And I can't just have calls with everybody left and right, of course, but I think it's little things, but even just like, again, making an introduction, like always having that in mind, like, ooh, who could that person, you know, be connected to in my network that would help them also? It's that type of value, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. And I love that Loom tip. I just, just a couple of like situations went through my head and I was like, yeah, I didn't need that call. I could have just Loomed that. That's a good shout. Um, intros. Um, do you intro people without really asking them if they want to be intro'd? Like, did you go like, okay, I just met this guy, um, you know, he, he should be connected to person X and Y, Z. I'm just gonna pop an email out, introduce them, and just leave them alone? Is that something you just go ahead and do that, or do you go like, hey guys, do you want to get intro'd?

I ask typically, unless I'm part of— unless we're all part of the same community. So there's a community called Entrepreneurs that I'm part of. It's a bunch of female founders. It's, that's sort of the vibe of the community is people connect one another. So I don't in that community specifically for all members, but outside of that, I typically will ask to make sure like, hey, is this someone you want to be connected with? Because some people are very busy and maybe don't necessarily want to do that and don't want to look bad or whatever the case is. So I'll make a quick like, hey, do you mind if I introduce you to, you know?

Yeah. I love that. I asked this because I got introed a couple of times just on random, and then I, uh, you know, I got introed with the person and it's like, hey, this person would be a great guest on the show. And, and I'm like, no, like, like, it's not. And then it's like, oh, but I intro you. Like, well, you look, you know, you're making me look bad. I'm like, well, you should have asked. Yeah, that's bad that that happened. So, so that's why I asked. Okay. So what about when it comes to giving value with sharing your skills or sharing your expertise or sharing your use cases, something you learned would be useful to your network to know. So when it comes to that, do you filter that down through something like, you know, am I giving too much? Should this be behind, you know, an actual paywall? Like you should become my client to know this. It's like, how is your mindset works, you know, when it comes to sharing content?

Again, great question. And I think I struggle with that personally, but I think part of it too is because there are so many people in my doing what I do. I would not necessarily the way I do it though. So I need to find a way to differentiate and show up that's different than all these other, other LinkedIn, you know, experts out there. And so, um, and so for me it's important to share my ideas and my, uh, way of doing things. I don't go into like nitty gritty details. Like I'm not gonna give you my DM playbook, especially when I customize it specifically for, you know, my clients that are, have this event coming up and I like do it all for them. Like I'm not gonna do that for someone who's not working with me. Of course.

Of course.

But high level, like things that you could Google and it's similar, like, you know, the, the Loom I gave the other day was somebody, they didn't know how to add their recommendations. Page to their profile. And so I said, I might show them how to do that. Like, that you could Google. I just would rather them hear it from me than Google, right? Or somebody else.

Okay.

But there's more specific custom things that I obviously keep to myself. But for me, it's important to get that out there and showcase like, yeah, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And yeah, I have a different take on it as well.

Okay. So what is your DM playbook? Yeah, let's just go into that straight into that. Maybe, maybe that's all the playbook. But jokes aside, I really wanna like know how you think about DMs, like, because I struggle with that and I'm not good at copywriting in general. I feel like a good DM is as good as copywriting, is as good as a good title, a good opening hook for a post, you know, a good ad copy. Like, all of that is, it's just great, a good skill to put words together into something which is, you know, really lands well. And I get a lot of, you know, pitches, pitch slabs all the time. Accept connection, couple of minutes later, boom, you know, this is what I do. And none of them impressed me. And then one I got quite recently, which I read, then I was like, oh, this is such a good copy. So I'm gonna copy paste that. And I came back to the person, I was like, this is a pitch slab. Okay. But this is so well written. I will literally will take this, which leads me to this, you know, question that she's like, Like, how do you think about DMs? Like, like, is it like one sentence to open and then see if they want to chat? It's like, what's your sort of, you know, mindset about DMing someone out of nowhere?

Hmm. Well, I guess that's the big issue is I don't like to DM out of nowhere. Like, there has to be a reason for it. Like, I, I don't like to— I'm not in a position right now where I'm like mass prospecting and, you know, selling some SaaS product anymore at this point. So like I've been in those positions before. It's a different strategy of course, because it is higher volume. But at this point, like I'm not going to just DM out of nowhere. There's always a reason. There's a warm context as to why I'm reaching out. And I'll explain what that is. And it's relevant, not just personalized, right? Cause I think that's the problem that a lot of people have been doing these days of like personalizing DMs and it's not relevant at all and it's almost sometimes creepy. Like, you really want to be like relevant to what it is, like why you're reaching out and giving in, you know, a reason behind it. Um, I don't really just DM to DM anymore.

Um, okay.

Although like, I mean, obviously again, I'm trying to like, if I've been engaging with somebody in the comments on each other's posts, that sort of thing. And I'm like, if something— they say something like, yeah, I'm gonna take it to the DMs and get to know them. It's not for me to pitch them or anything, but it's like, hey, like, thanks for supporting me, you know. And I do that often. Like, if somebody is engaging more with my content, I'll reach out to them that way, you know what I mean. But it's always because of like some purpose. Like, I want to— I don't just do DMs anymore out of, out of nowhere.

Okay, so our advice effectively is just don't go cold DMing. Find the reason to actually open conversation with someone.

Yeah. And you can find a reason typically pretty easily, right? Like there's things you can find, uh, about them or their company that like could lead to some sort of, uh, intro connection, right? Um, but yeah, I just cold outreach. I, I just don't really think it works, especially anymore. Mm-hmm. Um, especially like the way, like people are just getting so, we're just so tired to, of getting pitched to on LinkedIn, you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah. Um, I, I get them all the time as well, especially the automated automated messages, which are the worst. Like, I had one the other day of somebody reaching out to me, a LinkedIn strategist wanting to help me with my LinkedIn. I'm like, come on, man, let's do better.

I know more than you. Like, what are you talking about?

It's just so crazy. So like, it's really— the bar is really low to actually like stand out from everybody else if you genuinely can solve a problem that you think they have. Like, try and engage with them like genuinely and with curiosity. Like, figure out things that like might resonate with them, you know?

Okay, well, okay, how much time do you actually spend then on LinkedIn just, you know, talking with people?

I go through seasons. Okay. Right now I have been super busy because in March I had just come back from my maternity leave and my pipeline had kind of dried out a little bit. And so I was like, okay, I need to get back into doing what I do. And so I went hard into it. And, you know, outside of my usual in the morning, I spend about 45 minutes with content. So like content and engaging, that sort of thing. And then if I'm like in the zone of really wanting to get, pick up my, grow my pipeline again, which typically I try and be in that all the time, but that's not the case, of course. I probably spend another, you know, hour a day just connecting and supporting and finding new people and DMing, that sort of thing.

Okay.

So I try, 'cause my whole point, and I mean, I know this is like a little crazy to say this considering I built my business around LinkedIn, but I'm on LinkedIn to get off of LinkedIn and build relationships. Like, I don't want to be spending all day on the platform. I'd rather have lower volume but higher quality conversations that lead to real opportunities.

Okay, well, congratulations. Uh, was that like a first baby, second baby?

First baby.

First baby. Oh, life about to change.

Life about almost 7 months next week, which is just crazy.

Yeah, time flies. Yeah, I got two kids. I mean, life is never was the same when, when children come. We could do a whole episode about this. We could do a whole episode about this. Um, right, so back to LinkedIn. Um, so you're saying effectively the time usage becomes very, uh, targeted. Like, we're coming on LinkedIn not because we just want to scroll and, and consume information. We're coming with a real purpose to effectively help our network, build relationship. And then we're saying that we're concentrating on a smaller amount, but stronger relationships, because these are most likely will lead to some type of business relationships. And we're just not sort of like spray and pray type of situation.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah. The complete opposite of that. That was the experience when I first got into sales and they had me spraying and pray, smile and dial. Literally 100 dials a day. They had a mirror for me. It was absolutely brutal. I like, it's just not a comfortable way of doing things. And so that's pretty much like I, the system I've been doing is because of how turned off I was by that type of sales. And that's why I think sales has such a bad rap. It doesn't, because like that is what a lot of us were taught and what is what people are doing, but it doesn't need to be that way.

Okay. I actually love you calling this out. There's, um, I can't remember, um, a name, but there's a, there's another, um, professional when it comes to LinkedIn relationships and selling, and she has a book, and she was, um, a salesperson for LinkedIn who constantly outperformed everybody. And she, she has this thing where she, she coined it as a trademark, which is called Show Me That You Know Me.

Yeah, Sam McKenna. She's amazing.

Yeah. So, so I was like, you know, reading that and I was like, like, if you look statistically speaking, right, it might feel counterintuitive that you spending time going through people's profile and trying to know them so you can open that conversation organically on paper, on numbers, is actually outperforming the spray and pray. That, that feels counterintuitive because you're thinking like, I'm going to reach out to like thousands of people, like my numbers are bigger. but the end result, whatever is your success metric, that end result, which usually is the revenue, you're getting your ass kicked basically by show me that you know me. Okay. So I feel like, you know why people are still using LinkedIn, especially with automation software now and AI able to bake the messages for you. This is becoming a lot more, but LinkedIn messages are still being read. And I have this quote from Expandi, which is a LinkedIn automation software. They serve a lot of market and they shared some, some research numbers. So they're basically saying that LinkedIn DMs on average are 10%, uh, has a 10% reply rate, which compared to cold emails, uh, which is about 3 to 5%. So effectively speaking, if you want to reach out, do a cold outreach, you have double the amount if you're doing this via LinkedIn. So we all sort of suffering because of that. So people are still gonna use it likely until these numbers will equal out. People still respond on cold DMs, which leads me to this, um, this question: do you remember when you responded to cold DM and why did you respond that? Like, what was the message in that message that you decided to respond?

Um, gosh, when would I got on recently? So I haven't done, I haven't gotten a good cold DM in a very long time, I'll be honest.

So you don't even remember?

Wait a second. No, 'cause I'm trying to think. I have somebody, so that did was, okay. I, I was, uh, looking for branding at the time. Mm-hmm. And, um, but I hadn't like put that out there, but like it was clear, like you could, if you looked at my LinkedIn, I, my branding was terrible.

Okay.

and somebody had started to engage in my stuff and I saw that she did branding and I was looking at what she did. So like, like basically the same stuff that I tell my clients to do is like, if you are speaking, if your profile is speaking to your ideal client and you're creating content that's talking to your ideal client's problems, there's gonna be intrigue there to wanna learn more about it. So when this person DM'd me, I was like, oh, interesting. Actually, I'm looking for branding myself. Right? So we started a conversation, then it led to a call. She didn't know that I was like, in that specific place where I was thinking about buying, but in my head I was like, oh, this is perfect timing. You know what I mean?

So the timing was good. Effectively, you had the need for that message to land well, right? There wasn't even anything special. It was just like, I was looking for this. Just good timing. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I had a problem that someone solved and the timing was great. Yeah, totally. And I think that a lot of it might be luck like that sometimes. Um, but also like if you're hanging out in an area of people that, you know, you could serve, that's gonna be happening all way more frequently.

Yeah. You, you're just increasing yours by a lot.

Yeah.

Okay.

Which is why it's important. Like, I don't think you should just be on LinkedIn and connected with everybody and anyone, you know, find communities that you, you know, what you've had that same vibe or they're possible clients, right? Or collaborators and connect with them on LinkedIn so that you're not, you're nurturing those relationships, not just in that. Community, but actually now in your day-to-day where you are active, let's say, right? So it's doing stuff like that where like you are now surrounding yourself with people who, you know, could use your services.

Okay, I love that. Do you have a recipe or a structure for the— for a message when you're DMing? Like, you know, hook, body, CTA, or you just go like whatever feels natural?

You know, I was thinking about that before our call because I know I need to come up with like frameworks for all these things because I do have them and I have never just necessarily articulated them. But because a big part of what I do and I've like, I've never taken any LinkedIn courses or anything. Like everything I do on LinkedIn is based off of my intuition and what I've learned over the last 10 years. And so for me it's like, oh well, this is obvious, you would do it this way, but like it's not that obvious. It turns out that's why I have a job and my people pay me, I guess.

Okay, there you go.

So no, I don't have like a— I couldn't tell you what the framework is. Maybe next time we chat I'll have it actually like a term or something, something fun.

It's right. Yeah, I'm not gonna give you that, Mike. Maybe next time we talk. Okay, I'll take that. So I'll switch the question up. Uh, it's still about DMs. Um, do you ever do voice or videos in DMs? Like, do you, like, do you have any experience and any insights? If, uh, I got this couple of times, by the way. I didn't, I didn't feel like they landed, but I got a video sent to me, and then you click and, and a person goes like, hey Mike, you know, like I'm doing this and that and it's like, you know, it's not written, it's like a video and I got a voice as well.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's, you got to know your audience. I think, you know, depending on who you're targeting, I know it does work well. Like I think there's, you know, Marcus Chan, Darren McKee, like these guys do a lot of the voice notes in the videos. The problem with me and just like how I receive information. When somebody sends me a voice note, I may listen to it, but then I am so busy, I never tend to respond right away, and then I forget what the voice note is. So I've got several DMs in my waiting for a response for me, but I have no idea what they've said at this point, so I'll just forget about it. You know what I mean? So it just kind of depends. I think you might need to try various things and see what works. I think some people— yeah, for me, it's hard. But conversely, with my clients now, I'll send them voice notes checking in on them and stuff because that's a different type of relationship when I'm, you know, and in that sense it works for me. But for outreach, I haven't done too much of that, but I know it does work for people.

Okay, so we're saying effectively, don't dismiss it, right? Like, like, try it with your network. Maybe your network is accustomed to that and that's, that's the preferred way for them to communicate. Maybe they use WhatsApp voice noises all the time with their friends. So you coming like that to the LinkedIn, it will be just very natural to them, right? Okay, so it's just a trial of A/B testing effectively.

It is. And that's, you should be open to trying different things. Like I know there's another top sales creator on LinkedIn, Scott Leese, who like hates voice notes. Like he will just like die by not using them, that kind of thing. So, um, or at least he used to. So I don't know if that's changed, but it's one of those things. Like I just, it's so preferential on like the people, but like, trying different stuff and then seeing what lands and then sticking with that, you know.

Yeah, double downing on what works. Okay, so let's talk about the content, which effectively hopefully helps us to, to get seen, and then people maybe put comments, and that leads to us having a reason to DM them and going like, hey, you know, I just saw you left a comment, uh, what are you working on that, you know, what resonated, and that drives conversation. So when it comes to sharing a comment, a lot what you hear on the market is like, you know, cadence, boom, like do it every day, every day, you know, algorithms need to learn about you, like never miss it, like the most important thing is consistency and things like that. So you have a little bit different approach where you basically say like share with purpose, like, you know, like share it when you have something to say, right? So can you just sort of give us your view on the content piece? When it comes to LinkedIn?

Sure. Well, so I do agree that consistency is important, right? But I don't think that means you need to show up, excuse me, 7 days a week, you know, on all different types of channels. You have to think, think about your audience and do they need to hear from you 7 days a week? Are you selling a high, a low ticket digital course? Like then yeah, you probably need to be in front of people a lot of, a lot more frequently, right? Whereas if you're selling a high ticket service, you know, even if you're showing up Like, I think ideally it's still good to show up, you know, 3, 4 times a week, but whatever you can do consistently indefinitely is going to be more important than showing up all the time and then burning out and then disappearing for 9 months. You know what I mean? So I think like that's one area to think about. Like it is important that consistency piece, but like don't just post for posting sake, right? Like you wanna, that, that ends up hurting your brand more than anything. So like you wanna, yeah, post with purpose and, and share content that's actually going to. Resonate with your audience. And if you're not feeling inspired that day, then don't post, you know, it happens. Or obviously, like, if you have backup, you know, keep, keep that handy type of thing. But I think you should, you know, I think that posting for posting's sake is going to lead to frustration and burnout versus actually moving the needle within your business.

Oh, I love you saying that. I always feel guilty if I don't post. And then at some point, I just gave up and I was like, whatever, I can't make the quotas, you know, I'm not gonna be competing over here. So I stopped posting and then we had a chat with Ben Sharf and he's a founder and CEO of an e-commerce business and they got all the clients. They basically are a million annual revenue type of business and everything they got was from content-led from founder-led content on LinkedIn, right? And I asked the same question. I was like, well, you know, I can't make the quotas. And basically his answer was what exactly what you said, Natasha, is that choose a cadence which you know you can stick for years with. Like the cadence is still a cadence. It doesn't mean a daily, like, you know, it doesn't mean every hour or 3 times a day. It doesn't need to be so tight. Like just choose whatever you can stick with for years to come. It could be like once a month, whatever, that's your thing. Maybe, maybe it's a long post, maybe, you know, it's a newsletter or many slides or whatever, but it has to, it has to be there for, for, for many years to come, right? And that was his sort of advice. I think, like you said, the same thing. Okay, so what's your cadence? Like, what's Natasha's cadence right now?

In a, in an ideal world, it's 5 days a week. What I'm doing currently is around 3 to 4 days a week. Um, turns out when you have a 6-month-old that's going through sleep regression and you don't sleep much, it makes it harder to be inspired.

It is. Tell me about it.

So that's been where I've been. Um, but you know, even with 3 to 4 times a week, that's been leading to so many cool opportunities that I don't necessarily feel like I'm missing out by not posting every day.

Okay. You know, do you notice that you got— I mean, 3, 4 times a week, that's still like, in my, like, in my planned it, that's still a lot. Um, do you notice that when you went from like 7 or every day to, to less, did you notice that LinkedIn somehow penalized you? Maybe like less impressions, you know, the post being shared to less of your network or something like that, or just like literally no difference?

Uh, probably it's less. I mean, my— I think in general impressions are down. I'm seeing this like left and right, right now. So even if that is the case, I just don't pay attention to that. Okay.

That's a vanity metric.

It is. And I, and I don't get me wrong, like I don't want my post dying in the algorithm and not getting any engagement. So like that, that, that's not the goal here either. Like I do want the best opportunity of life for my post, but I also wanna make sure that I'm serving my clients, that I'm having sales calls, that I'm doing podcasts, getting, you know, my brand out there. And so that's moving the needle more versus trying to get more likes and impressions, which would mean then I'm spending more time on the platform, right? I limit my— I've got 45 minutes in the morning that I do this, if that, sometimes 30 minutes where I've got my, you know, level of people that I'm sort of practicing reciprocity with. I, I, uh, clients I'm nurturing or prospects I'm nurturing, that sort of thing. And then I get off because yes, I could spend another hour on there trying to find more people to be engaging with, but then again, that's less time doing stuff that actually makes money for me.

So I love you.

If it is docking me for not doing every single day, I just, I don't even notice it. And I don't let my, I don't let it drive me crazy. Like I saw someone the other day posting like a top creator saying, you know, I've been shadow banned and it's like, no, it's the platform's changing. Like it has, it is very much changing, especially in the last 6 months. Like everyone's impressions are down and that's why I don't even like notice or let it get to me because it doesn't affect my business.

So we had, we had a, how to put it, a businessy, a higher level LinkedIn person who works with Sales Navigator and they oversee a lot of enterprise accounts at Sales Navigator level, like a professional sort of sales teams at scale. So he gave an explanation of why the impressions are down and again, I don't know if that's true or not, but effectively, because LinkedIn is a Microsoft product, right? That Microsoft is a publicly traded company, they need to account for financials. So of course LinkedIn as a company cares about making more money and to make more money effectively they need to have more ad space. And if you think about the feed or how much space you have in a person's feed, if you can fill more of this with ads, you're making more money. If you can fill this more with people content, you're really not making money. For the person, maybe it's better to get, uh, creators' content than, than ad ads or ad-driven content. But for LinkedIn as a business, they're gonna make more revenue if they're gonna show you more ads. So the, the hypothesis they have is that that is the reason of why impressions are down. So effectively, they're gonna be showing less content and only the best content in your feed, and then everything else will be ads. Or already is.

That's a shame if that's like the, the what ends up being— yeah, like the platform like that. Like, that would be a shame.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I was like, I don't want to see ads. Come on, man. Like, just take like £6 from me, you know, like what YouTube Premium does. Just show me no ads. Like, I want to see people, you know, content. Like, I don't want to see ads. So yeah, it would be shame. I do agree. Right. So your posts are very nice posts. You know, I would put them at the level of what you could call a professional content creator, with no surprise, of course. Do you have your frameworks around the content? Like, because they have very nice structure, you know, you can clearly see some storytelling and some, you know, some things going on. Like, do you have your way, or is it just like you write that? Like, that's just natural to you?

I appreciate you saying that because I, I think imposter syndrome kicks in hard when it comes to the fact that I'm a content creator. And I use that in quotations because my background is sales, right? I am not a writer. And actually, when you said something about the DMs being like, you know, that's level of like copywriting stuff, I'm like, I— that's not actually my area of expertise. I've just learned how to tell stories in a way that's engaging And I learned by doing, right? Like if you look at my posts from years ago, I mean, they're pretty terrible, I'll be honest. And obviously AI has helped me a little bit. Like I don't, the way that I leverage AI, it's always my original thought. And like that was what was so frustrating for me. It's like I've got these great ideas, but how do I say it in a way that's actually going to hit home? And so that's why like for me it's been so great using AI because I can take my thoughts and turn it into something that works well, but it's taken me, me years to understand, yes, the hook's important and then you kind of tease things out, give some parts to it. But actual structure frameworks, I don't really, I don't follow that. And I probably should, again, given the fact that this is stuff that I help my clients with. But for me, my area that I love so much, and actually I joke about this too, but I probably shouldn't even say this, but for me, content is a necessary evil to have conversations. And not that I think content's evil at all. I know that it is what leads to really great conversations. But again, writing is not my natural— like, it's not something I was naturally good at. My 12th grade English teacher, Mr. Hernandez, he told me I was a terrible writer too, so that probably just stuck with me since then.

Oh yeah, that's not good.

I know, right?

A teacher should not say that to kids because now look, like, so many years later, you can't write. But you clearly can. Yeah, you clearly can. I mean Your posts are great. So you mentioned that your beginning posts, you know, weren't that great, right? So I call that people stuck in draft mode. And I see that myself where I don't know even what is the reason, but I felt the same thing when I entered and started sharing content. It's like you sort of write, you know, a post and they're like, I don't know if that's, you know, let me rewrite this. I don't know, maybe, okay, what if I put this over there? I'm still not sure. Okay, I'll come back to this later. And it just goes into some type of like draft mode and you just dwell on it, dwell it, and this, I, whatever, I'm not going to post it. It's already too late. The news has passed. It's been 3 days or whatever. And then you never post it, right? And I had that, uh, I needed to overcome that, right? And the best advice, uh, I got is that no one cares. Like, like No one really cares that much that they would somehow sense that you improved that question by moving those, you know, two words around or like hook went there or over there. It's a lot more important just to share your point of view. Like just, just go and share it. That's at least, you know, how, how I would approach that beginning mode. Like from your experience, Natasha, if you have clients who just like dwell too much on the quality of the post, it's like. What's your advice? Like, how do you get them just, you know, post and keep a cadence going?

Well, so I've helped— I create a custom AI bot for them that is in their tone of voice, that knows their writing and everything, and knows who they're talking to. So it helps take their ideas and turn it into posts that do well. That's what I've done for myself. And so I have like a brand and voice guide that turns it into a custom bot for them. So now folks that like have never created content ever. I can even just have them chatting into their phone and then the bot knows like how to turn that into an actual post. So it's, I don't, I don't like to think it's cheating because again, it's with their original idea, but writing also is not their area of expertise. And given that that's something that I was going through, I'm like, clearly a lot of my clients are going through this as well. So let me create a solution to make that easier so that they don't have an excuse not to post anymore. I make it so easy for you to show, to post that, like, it's, it's, it's amazing. That overthinking that you used to have, it's just gone. It's eliminated.

Okay. So effectively it's like, hey, just, just talk to this app or just talk to this microphone, uh, get your idea out and then you use AI to make a post to basically craft a post and then they post and then they post.

And I give it instructions as to like what the structure of a post needs to look like, what it needs to include, how it should be formatted, that sort of thing. Um, so that it just, it fits well for LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, that, that's my kind of loophole for it. Um, and again, it's, it's always with that. And I, like, I want to clarify 'cause I know like a lot of people are worried about AI, you know, AI writing and it's not legit kind of thing. And, and I actually listened to a podcast the other day where, um, I forgot who it was now, was saying like, you know, AI spits out the average of what's on the internet, right? Like that's genuinely what you're getting. So do you wanna be average? Probably not, right? Like that's the whole point is like it's your expertise, it's your thought leadership. So let's take that idea and then just use AI to assist us to make it, to get it out in a better way that people will read.

Yeah. If you don't give any context and you say, hey, generate me a blog post about, you know, a tree which grows in, forest or something like that, and you give it a name, everything it's going to come up with will be an average from everything you can find about the same online. But if you give it your context, your point of view, what AI will do, it will just help you write this down or write this out in a structure you want it, which again is a huge time saver for people who can't write that well. So which means we're all going to be very good copywriters very, very soon, right? Because Yeah, it's just everywhere now. And you can use it, you can even use it in LinkedIn as far as I know. Like when you write the post, there's a, there's an AI button where you can just help it to generalize your, your post. So everyone will have a very nice post. So we'll see where that goes. Okay.

Well, you do get a lot of this the same that way too. But one other thing that's like happened for me is that I probably like leaned on AI a little bit. Much in the beginning. Mm-hmm. But now I understand like how I should be structuring and, and writing my posts. And so I don't use it at all like I used to. Like I, my post is pretty much already done. I just like, I think the prompt I use the most frequently right now is like, help me make this a little better.

Mm-hmm.

Because I've already gotten like the main point of it. And that's why like if you look at my content, like you're never gonna think, oh, AI wrote this like at all because it's, it is me. I just like, there's pieces that obviously I use to help make it better.

So how do you—

like, you kind of learn— you can learn copywriting by leveraging it to start, you know what I mean?

Yep, I know what you mean. Uh, I use the same, like, I, I do the same, not, not at scale. I, I mean, honestly, I don't post that much, uh, because, because we do the podcast in video and audio, and of course you can transcribe audio and get a lot of content, but I feel like I'm not there yet. We don't push that much out, so we're concentrating on like Shorts and video formats. But as much as I tried, it's a huge, huge time saver when it comes to actually crafting posts. So I'm not surprised that the whole market is using, and especially you as helping people to do well with LinkedIn, you know, it's, it's, it's a tool, right? Like, why would you not use it if that makes you more efficient and better to get to your results? 100%. So we got a couple of questions from audience and I just looked through the chat. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to pull them at the screen, but I'll as well read them to our listeners who will end up listening this on audio. Right. So we got this one. You talk about this amazing hybrid approach, part done for you, part done with you. I like that. But from your experience, what actually helps people play— oh, sorry, stay consistent for a long term? Let's put it like a year or two years.

Yeah, that's a great question. So, and I'll give some context actually as to how my program has changed over the years, because when I first started, I was just— I don't want to say just a coach, but I coached on what to do around my three pillars of personal brand, content, and social selling. So I told them what to do and wanted to empower my clients to be able to do all this on their own, which I thought was great. But it turns out a lot of people don't want to or don't need to do it on their own, right? That's what's the highest and best use of their time. And so what ended up happening too is that especially in those first two pillars, people got stuck there. And so they didn't end up getting to that third piece of social selling, which is where the real ROI comes from. And so speaking of how to get people to stay consistent, it's like if you start seeing results from the work we're doing, they're going to continue with this because they're staying motivated because they see the results, right? It's immediate, instant gratification. Basically what ended up happening is that we got stuck. My clients would get stuck on that personal brand and content piece because they're not writers, they're not designers, they don't know how to do this. And so they weren't seeing any results after several months and then they'd give up on it. So for me, I help set them up now with their profile, with their content. I teach them how to do all the things as well. Like we do, you know, Canva 101, we do. You know, I give them their bot, like I, and I show them how to be thinking about and leveraging AI maybe they never have before, but I also give it all to them so that we can focus on that third piece of social selling, which I can't build relationships for you. And so I guide them on how to do that and then they start seeing results very fast. So what keeps them motivated and doing this consistently is that they are seeing genuine, like actual traction from the work that they're doing. Okay. Right. If they're just posting for posting's sake. You know, that's gonna lead to burnout. They're not gonna see results from that. If they're just doing the other piece of having conversations but not creating content, then they're not gonna see the same results either. And so it's finding that blend to make sure that they're actually seeing those results. Accountability obviously is a good piece to this too. Like I have clients that I've been working with for over a year now, and it's because yes, they understand the system, but meeting biweekly helps keep them on track and keeping them accountable. So like that is one piece to it, but the goal is for them not to need me anymore.

I love you calling this out. Um, I feel like I had the same. I questioned the podcast. I mean, podcast industry is so brutal. I mean, it's so competitive. Everyone has a podcast, you know. It's like, I want to say my mom and my dad's going to have podcast next year or something like that, but because it's like everyone has a podcast, right? It's like, it's like a new thing in technology. Everyone has a podcast. And when we started, I mean, every single month I've seen like no results, and I was like Do we even do this? Do we even continue doing this? I question the whole situation like literally every, every week. So seeing results fast is definitely what would give a huge, huge, huge, um, what's the word I'm looking— huge influence on, on you, you know, staying consistent. Okay, I love that. Right, let me pull this up. This is, this is interesting. Um, How do you see the rise of short-form TikTok-style content influencing the way professionals build credibility on LinkedIn? Are we adopting or just aging out? I'm not really sure what the last sentence means. Are we adopting or just aging out? So I would, I would presume it means that are we actually doing short-form content on LinkedIn as professionals, and aging out implies that we're too old to do it. Something like that.

Are we too old to adopt this TikTok style reel?

Okay. Yeah.

Well, hopefully I'm making an impact on that because I actually just did a recording session with a client earlier who we did a case study about this afterwards because she never thought she would do video. It never occurred to her. She didn't think it would be possible because it's just not in her comfort zone. She would have no idea where to begin with it. But after being on lots of podcasts and this was my own experience as well. I'm not good at video. I've just recently started to do like, you know, selfie style video, which like, it's horrible. It's so hard for me. I don't know how people do that all the time, but I had no problem beyond the podcast. Right. And then I would take the podcast and I'd take the clips and turn that into content that, you know, did well on LinkedIn. And so I'm like, well, if I'm obviously having a hard time with this, I'm guessing clients are too. And so there's got like, why not recreate a podcast style? Recorded session so I can get my clients talking to me, just having a conversation, but then I turn those into clips for them. So I have clients who, again, uh, never thought they would do video and, you know, maybe trip up a little bit when we're doing it, but it doesn't matter because we're just having a conversation. So I take out the piece that works and then they turn that and use it as, as like, you know, the TikTok style reel.

Okay.

It's, it's underproduced on purpose in the sense that just it has that authentic vibe to it. People can still get to know you and they're gaining confidence and getting better at doing video that maybe they'll actually start to do video on their own after that. And so I think learn— figuring out these types of loopholes that can get people more comfortable with it will help us not age out and take advantage of the fact that like so many people are flocking to LinkedIn and it's really important to show and prove you do what you say you do. And video is a great way of doing that, right? I think a lot of people are hiding behind the screens. And so if you can show up and get to know people, you know, it's a way of communicating with somebody that text can't necessarily do.

So there's a sort of follow-up and I have a follow-up question, but I want to show this as well on the screen, which will be similar to that. LinkedIn seems to want to be new TikTok because of their emphasis on video content. So that's a sort of like a good follow-up. And I do have some numbers for this because I pulled that for another episode we did where it was financial year. It was last quarter of 2024, Microsoft financial year, where they explicitly mentioned that the biggest growing segment for them on LinkedIn was video content. It didn't say that, you know, we're pouring money or we're changing algorithms. So we're going to promote more video posts or something like that. No. But it was just more of it. So it could be just people, you know, going like, well, I have this video made for YouTube, so I'm gonna put it on LinkedIn. Why not? And then LinkedIn ended up having, you know, more videos. But as well, it could be, hey, we want to compete with TikTok, so let, you know, let's promote and get, get more impressions for video content. Like, do you have any insights in general about like video content and how it performs on, on LinkedIn?

Yeah, this year it's down 300% supposedly on impressions. Like, they gave it this go last year and people went crazy with it, and then this year they've like silently decided that video is not the main thing. Um, I, I think it's still on there, it's still important. Um, and I, I'm pushing, getting— I'm putting myself in out of my comfort zone and doing— I'm trying to do one video a week. That's I'm just speaking to the camera and I've closed 2 clients because of that, right? So my impressions weren't, I didn't go viral in them, but I'm speaking to the problems that my clients have that are engaging with my content or my prospects. And it ends up leading to other conversations, deeper conversations with somebody that then led to a closed deal. So I think regardless of how many impressions and how TikTok-y it starts to feel on LinkedIn. I think thinking about how you can better connect with your audience is more important than anything. It's back to that like relationship piece to it.

So like, exactly.

It doesn't really matter if it's gonna get like crazy impressions or anything like that. Like if you're really doing, creating right, the right content, it's gonna hit so well.

I love that. When, when you think about as well producing a video, um, it takes a lot more time than write a post. Right? Because you need to film yourself, you need to take a video from whatever you filmed, you probably will need to make an edit, put some captions on, then, you know, upload that. There's a lot more effort doing a video piece than writing a post. And if it doesn't work that well for LinkedIn, I mean, you know, write a post, I guess. But if you're doing that video somewhere else, like for TikTok or YouTube, Why would you share it on LinkedIn and combine it with the post, right? Okay. I didn't know, by the way, they penalize, not penalize, but shadow ban, if we can say this, videos. So you're saying 300% less impressions?

Yeah, supposedly.

Supposedly.

Like, who knows the exact numbers here? But yeah, it went crazy last year and then it's just not what it was. Yeah.

It's not. Is not getting promoted, right?

It still does. People— I mean, some people again do very well on that still, but I think, um, it's just not the like main form of content still in the end.

All right, so we've got this one. Um, let, um, let me just show that again. Um, let's add some. Okay, so for people who feel invisible on LinkedIn despite being highly skilled, what's usually the real blocker? And what is the number one mistake that they are making? So effectively, we're saying we have a lot of professionals on LinkedIn, as in they're probably very high in their careers, or maybe entrepreneurs who achieved a lot, but they're really not sharing anything on LinkedIn. You know, are we saying that, um, there's some, some type of blocker, or, or, you know, they just not— don't know how to share, so they're making some mistakes?

So in the case, in the instance that they are sharing content, but not getting much from that, it's their strategy is probably they're posting and praying, hoping that people will see it. The thing is though, is that people don't know you exist yet, right? Like they don't know to search for you. And so that means you need to get your thought leadership out into the world. And that's not gonna happen just by you posting content. That's gonna happen by you. By you commenting, by you DMing, by you having conversations off the platform so that you're starting to get your expertise out into the world. Otherwise people don't know to search for you. It's not just gonna magically show up in people's feeds, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's really important. That's why I, I emphasize so much the combination of both content and conversations. That's what leads to a real successful LinkedIn strategy because Again, just posting content is not going to lead anywhere, honestly.

Okay.

So it's important to find other thought leaders, experts in your industry, find industry adjacent thought leaders, creators that you can start to engage with and share your knowledge in their comment section, right? And start to engage with people so that they know to look for your content as well.

Okay. And for people listening right now and going like, you know what, I don't have time. To engage with all of this. What are we saying is enough of daily commitment to actually get traction? Like half an hour daily, go to your feed, you know, leave comments, send some DMs, an hour? Like what's, what's a bare minimum to actually see attraction in a month or so?

So I, I say like bare minimum is even just sending 2 to 3 DMs or 2 to 3 new comments a day. Like if that's what— because some people think you need to do an hour or 30 minutes and then that stops them from doing anything. But I'm seeing clients who are like just getting started and literally just doing 1 or 2 DMs a day and then that leads to something else. And so then they again start to get motivated because they're seeing results. So then they spend a little bit more time.

Okay.

So like bare minimum, anything, anything more than what you're doing right now because you will see things come from that truly. But that doesn't mean posting either. That means like just trying to find, you know, comment a couple of times, you know, or reach out to, you know, it's, it's silly, like especially for so many of us that are working from home now too, especially, or like just don't have the same office work culture that we used to. Like, reach out to former past colleagues, see what they're up to, see if there's any offer— like, not even see if there's opportunity. You never know what opportunity could be there just by re-engaging and nurturing that relationship if you haven't seen them in 5 years, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think a lot of people forget, like, it's about building relationships. Like, little things like that will open so many doors.

And if you're genuine, people really want to help as well. So I, I got this tip from, from Gary Vee, um, He made like a simple post. He said like, look, the easiest way to get started is basically take your phone and just film yourself and go like, hey, I'm sending this video to everyone in my contacts, so I'm not addressing you by name, but I want to let you know that I'm starting something new. You know, I'm very excited about this. If you would want to benefit from XYZ, which I'll be doing, or you know, someone in your network which will be doing please make sure to pass my contacts. Thank you very much for helping me. Just make this video like this, we're gonna take you like a minute and just send to everyone. Yeah, and people, people who know you, people you worked with, people in your network, they will be like, great for you, man, you know, let me, let me see who I know. Not gonna be everyone, you know, I don't know what the conversion will be, but there will be someone, and that just sort of gives you that kickstart Element. Love that. All right, so people wanting to know more, Natasha, about what you do, find you, uh, pick your brain— by the way, I love your picture on, on the LinkedIn, very unique, never seen anyone else having picture like this. So if, if people want to find you, where, where did they go and contact with you?

Well, as you can imagine, LinkedIn is a great place to find me. I'm there pretty often, but I also recently relaunched my website. It's nearpointstrategies.com. Um, I also have a newsletter that I started a couple months ago. Um, that's one of those areas where I'm like, am I giving too much information? But I think for now, as my starting subscribers, I'm happy to give— I give a lot of information. So I would definitely check it out and subscribe. I send it out every Tuesday mornings.

Excellent. So people not tuning in live, just check your show notes, you'll have all the links for Natasha over there. This, this was excellent, Natasha. Thank you very much for, uh, sharing enough of your secrets, if I might say like this. You know, we, we definitely gave enough, maybe not all the secrets. So if you want to know more tactical things or literally application frameworks, get in touch with Natasha. She will be more than happy to help you to own the LinkedIn space. And it is the space which has huge, huge impacts to building businesses and growing businesses. I think this is our 5th episode when it comes to LinkedIn, talking with the LinkedIn professionals. We as well as a show have a very strong belief: if you want to build relationship, get on the sales calls, close some deals, do concentrate on LinkedIn than any other social media. Thanks everyone for tuning in, and as always, until the next time, stay safe and see you on my end.