How To Turn Your Expertise Into 7 Additional Income Streams with Katrena Friel

By now you have built a solid career, maybe even a successful business, but deep down, you know, you could be doing more. You see others leveraging their personal brand to land speaking gigs, create digital products, or attract high-value clients. But how exactly are they doing it? What's the secret? Well, today we are pulling back the curtain and breaking down the 7 income streams hidden in your expertise so you can start turning what you know into what you make. Welcome back to Mastering Tech Growth, where we interview industry leaders to bring you actionable insights and inspiring stories. I'm your host, Mike, and joining me today is someone who has mastered this process, Katrina Friel. Katrina is a business mentor, TEDx speaker and award-winning author who has spent 25 years helping professionals turn their skills into thriving businesses. She teaches entrepreneurs how to unlock hidden revenue streams, stand out in their industries, and build a business that gives them real freedom. Welcome to the show, Katrina.

Oh, hi Mike, how are you?

Well, I'll tell you what, Katrina, this is 8 AM for me in UK and I know it's an evening for you, so I'm still A little bit sleepy, right? And I got my coffee here, so I'm going to enjoy that coffee while we do the show. But otherwise, I'm feeling great. How about you?

Oh, fantastic. Yeah, brilliant. I've got my coffee here. I'm good to go.

Good to go. Let's do that. Right. So in the spirit of the show, Katrina, we open with this question. When I say mastering tech growth, what comes to mind?

Oh, personal growth, the growth mindset, that kind of thing.

Okay. So what we're saying is if you don't have a growth mindset, it's very unlikely that you're gonna grow personally, and if you're not gonna grow personally, you're not gonna grow your business, you're not gonna grow any tech venture whatsoever.

No, I totally agree with that statement. I would say that that's the secret sauce, and I think people have copped on to that over the last 10 years. And now people realize that the personal development is just as important as the professional development.

Well, you don't know what you don't know, isn't it? So how, like, you enter a business, right? Let's say you created a digital product, something technical, mobile app or whatnot. You're going to be given challenges, you know, by the industry, by just, you know, growing the business, hiring people, leading people, making sales, doing marketing. It's your business. Ultimately, you will be responsible for all of that, right? Right? And you're coming into one expertise set, which could be something like, I can code, so I can build a product. You don't know everything else. So if you're not growing professionally, AKA you're actually looking for that knowledge, it's very unlikely you're going to be successful.

Yeah, yeah. This is why I created Founder, because founders have very specific needs, um, and so I really love that space where you can get in and make big improvements because at the end of the day, they don't know what they don't know. But once they know, they switch on quick as can be. They're very quick learners. Their minds are sharp and they are ready for growth. They just want to know, you know, what's my challenges. So I always like to start with a bit of a SWOT analysis on the person.

Right. On the person, not on the business, but on actual person. Like what are you good at? What are you not good at? Right.

Yeah, but I go deep and I go deep fast. And this is what founders like, they like to go fast. And so we don't muck around with theories and God knows what, we just get straight into it. And the problem is essentially you, is what I like to say. It's because they're missing, tech people are missing the people piece. So I want to install the people piece into their careers and into their mindsets and into their worldview and realize that they could have a much better impact if they actually understood the concepts that psychologically are around them. And it's usually tech people are very tech-focused. And so to be really good at business, you need to be people-focused on every level with all stakeholders. And that is true success. The most intelligent tech-savvy people are are not the most successful people. It's the people piece that will take it.

I love that.

Because they can connect with people, communicate with people, lead people, engage people, influence people, and the list goes on of benefits.

Okay, so if we would rephrase that question around what comes to mind and we would say you have to choose one thing which is the most important when it comes to growing and scaling any tech startup or venture, you would go people?

Yeah.

Okay. I love that.

Yeah, I would go people. I call myself the engagement switch and I am the people piece. So people will get me into the organization to work on the people piece. The tech stuff, you learn, you learn coding, you learn all these things at university, at colleges and whatever, wherever else we learn it. But for some weird reason, the people piece is not developed in primary school. It's not developed in high school. It's not developed in college. And whenever anyone finishes one of my courses, they always say, why isn't this taught at university? And I'm like, exactly, why isn't it?

Well, that's how we create the consultancies and businesses, isn't it? We effectively fill the gap which appears for whatever reason. Do you have an idea why it's not being taught? Why do educational systems sort of go like, "These soft skills, eh, you don't need them"?

I would hazard a guess, let me just guess, based on 25 years' experience, I think it's because they don't see it as measurable. They can measure literacy, they can measure numeracy and so on, and all the other measures that they do in these exams and whatnot. And because they can't measure it, they don't seem to value it. And it's like, Oh my gosh, no. Schools today have improved. And if you look at the more progressive schools, you can actually see mindfulness, emotional intelligence, conflict resolution, being able to communicate, presentation skills. All these things are what is important and is going to be important no matter what career you're in. But tech people and analytical types tend to struggle with this piece the most. And that's why, you know, one of the guys said to me at class, at the Leadership Management Masterclass one day, he said, you know, why is this people stuff even important? I said, mate, that's why you're here because you asked that question.

I love that. I love that. Really good analysis. You can't really measure that easy. So how can you, you know, imagine you walk in an exam and hey, I'm gonna give you a grade of how good you are with people, like how that exam would look like, right? It's like, okay, that's a—

yeah, so, um, that's probably why, but that's me just guessing, um, that they put it in the too hard basket. But I have seen improvements over the years. It's nice to see what's happening. Some schools are really progressive and just totally focus on the emotional intelligence of the child. The other 9 intelligences, um, are what comes probably naturally to people, but the emotionally intelligent peace can be developed. There's no doubt.

Okay. All right. So a lot of professionals, professionals put their energy into their work, which usually is, you know, the 9 to 5 situation, thinking if they do a great job, success will follow. But in reality, it's not just about what you know, it's about who knows you. And that's where the personal brand comes in. According to Business Grow, people struggle with the trade-off between building a personal brand and doing the real work. But you have to do them both. So a question, Katrina, how did you balance your personal brand while managing everything else? And what mindset shift helped you to see personal branding as part of your success and not a distraction?

I think back in the day when I was in corporate, I just intuitively was people-focused and, um, it was all about relationships for me. And that's been the basis of my career. I didn't know that I could make a living doing what I do in the personal brand space and in the people piece space. I didn't even know that existed in those days. My last corporate job was in sales. And so for us, we're trained to be people-focused, good influencers, good emotional intelligence, able to have a conversation with people and and disarm people really easily. And all those skills, um, are relevant today in my career. So in answer to your question, I think what, what I realized was that, um, relationships was everything. And the first book I wrote was all about how relationships with people in our private lives, you know, getting married, having a girlfriend, having a boyfriend, all these things actually correlated along the sales process. And so it was really just interesting to me when I did that research to see that those two things ran parallel and that sales is not about sales, it's about relationships. And then from there, my mind started to think, well, hang on a moment. There's, there's something called personal branding. And this was the very early days. This is 25 years ago that personal branding wasn't even on our radar. We didn't even really call it that. I don't even, I suppose we called it reputation perhaps in those days. But personal brand became an actual thing. And this is something that we needed to develop because your brand walks in the door ahead of you. And what people don't realize is that your brand is out there and it's their, their perception of you that's happening regardless. Now what I wanna do is get that to become a little bit more conscious for you and make sure that they understand what they stand for, what their values are, what their SWOT analysis is. And there's a whole bunch of exercises we go along just to determine What is your brand? But what is it really? And what's walking in the door ahead of you? This is a really interesting question. And quite often their brands, their personal brands are not great. They're not perceived as a conscious leader or an influential leader. They're seen as all sorts of other things. And so we've got to turn that ship around and get them working on it in a conscious way. So that they can make changes to develop that a bit further.

I really love that your brand walks through the door ahead of you. I really love that. You know, that's so good. So it doesn't matter what you do, you know, you're selling, you're looking for business, you're building, any event, a meeting or anything you go, people will know who you are before you actually come to that event and they will maybe check you online and whatever is your personal brand, that, that's, that, that's the opinion they have about you right now. Right? So before they even meet you, they, they, they constructed that. And if that's not great, then you're just walking at the sort of, you know, below the threshold element. You'll need to build up that. That's very powerful to just connect in your mind. Right? So a lot of, a lot of people feel like they they have to put a perfect front when they're building a personal brand. And I'll be honest, this is me. Like, I can't put anything out if it's not perfect. And I know this is, this is, this is, you know, not good. And I'm sort of working on that one. So, but the truth is people actually connect with real unpolished versions of you, right? So we're talking about authenticity within your personal brand. And according to React Power, embrace your humanity, mistakes and all, and show your audience that growth and learning is part of your journey. So the question, Katrina, can you share a moment when being real rather than polished actually helped person and brand grow? And, and, uh, what would you say to someone afraid of showing vulnerability online?

Well, at, at the end of the day, it's important to understand that we're human. And when perfectionism comes into it, it means you're being machine-like or trying to be a machine, which is not possible. Um, you are human. And so people want to connect with souls, they want to connect with hearts, they want to connect with minds. And, um, the more authentic you are, the easier it is to be you. If you're being whatever it is that you're being and it's not real to who you are, you're gonna be really tired at the end of every week. And this is where burnout and stress comes in, because to hold that mask up of perfection is burnout waiting to happen. And I know this because I had perfectionism disease. I burnt out twice before I was 25, and so this was really put in my face really early on. And so your authenticity will come through your stories and will come through your social skills. And what I pride myself on is what you see is what you get. And there is a sense when you meet me that if I was having a drink down at the pub with you over a beer, it wouldn't be that different from what you're seeing on stage. Those two things— I'm slightly more formal, obviously, on stage, but it's very similar. You don't see a giant leap. So to determine who you are naturally and to determine who you are authentically, just have a look at yourself and your behavior at a barbecue where you feel really comfortable. That's who you are, that, and that's who you should bring to your personal brand and that's who you should bring to your business, that person, not the polished version, not the perfect version because there is no such thing as perfection, but the real you. And the more authentic you are, the more endearing you become. It's quite bizarre.

What if I don't like who I am? Like, what if that's the main reason I'm, you know, like, if I'm in public, I'm not me because I'm like, no one's gonna like that guy. Is that just a mindset situation?

Well, it is a mindset situation. It's where, you know, you want to have self-confidence, self-belief, some sort of self-value. And I work in all these spaces, so all All of these concepts are coming into my training because we have to believe in ourselves, we have to have self-confidence, and these are the common things that all executives are struggling with that we're working on quite often. So it's not unusual to have somebody say, you know, I don't like myself, or I'm not very good socially, or this or that. But what I like to do is say, we don't want to turn everybody into Anthony Robbins or turn everybody into Oprah. Oprah is Oprah, Anthony Robbins is Anthony Robbins, and Madonna is Madonna. The trick is, where's your tribe? Who are the people that are going to love you and relate to you and want to be with your energy versus who wants to be with me? You and I will have two different types of people that will attract, and I'll attract my people. There's enough for everyone. So just You know, be yourself because everyone else is taken.

I love that. And you did say, like, you know, know who you are, which I instantly was like, well, how can, like, what was the first step? Like, how can I just start recognizing myself? You know, do I ask my friends? Do I ask, you know, my spouse, my partner, and go like, you know, can you tell me who you think I am? Because I feel like it's very hard to reflect on yourself and go like, yeah, I think, you know, I know who I am, this is my values. Like, I did this exercise, by the way, multiple times, and I'm still struggling to actually pinpoint who I am exactly. So can you give me some insights? Like, how would I go to discover myself?

I use a number of different things. So the first thing I'd get you to look at is I get you to do a DISC profile, D-I-S-C. And if you haven't heard of DISC profile, I mean, it's been around for 30 5 years now. Um, uh, feel free to just get in touch and I'll send you a quiz, and you can just do a quick quiz and get your head around, uh, DISC. The next thing I might do is a values exercise, then I'll do the SWOT analysis, and then I'll do a, um, uh, sort of an emotional intelligence quiz. And again, if you haven't done an emotional intelligence quiz, just a simple paper-based one, um, give me a call and I'll email it to you. Uh, no problem. And you can just do those tests because what we're doing is we're getting you to look at yourself from different angles. And I want to— by the end of the exploration, I want you to have articulation around who you are and, you know, what your, your genuine authentic self might be. And there is other spiritual things that I do that are a little bit more woo-woo, and that is to give you even more depth, I use astrology in a real— not in a way that you need to know the stars or worry about becoming an expert in astrology. You don't even need to be into astrology. Just do your chart for fun because there's all the wording in there, and you can extrapolate the wording, and you'll know it's true because it will feel real. It'll feel true. It's just intuitive.

I'll tell you what, Karina, my wife would love you in this one. She does something which is called numerology, something, something where, you know, you put in like numbers around your name and, you know, and it just gives you sort of like, hey, this is your soul and something like that. She loves that stuff. She would be like, yeah, yeah, right now. She would love you.

Let's do our numerology as well because that will give you articulation. And the new really trendy one right at the moment is people are doing Human Design, so finding out their Human Design. So that's a whole body of work. And again, doesn't matter how many of these you do. I get people to do them all because again, I want you to give, give yourself articulation. Because if you can point at it and name it, you can own it. Whereas it sounds to me, Mike, like you just don't have the words. I could probably give you the words because I can give you my perception of you within this short period of time. I, I can already feel, you know, who you are. I can, I can get a sense of you quite quickly. And us empaths, this is our natural state. We're reading people all day, every day. We do it quite naturally. Whereas for others who are not that empathic, um, this might be a weird concept, like reading energies, reading people. Yes. If you can walk into a room and know somebody's just had a fight, you're empathic. So everyone's empathic, actually. It's just some build that muscle more than others.

I really love that, uh, how you put it, that, you know, you do all of these tests so you can articulate things about yourself. So for me, it's like if I have something written which comes out of this test, if I'm reading this, something will will resonate. So it's almost like, you know, discovering yourself in those write-ups and you go like, okay, from all of that, what I just got, that paragraph, like that, that reads to me very well. Like that's, you know, I'm resonating with that. So I can take that and put it in my brand like that, that, that's me. Like I know that. And I did this exercise, not like a big exercise, but to prove that people sometimes just need words to form opinions. And it was a simple question like, describe your sister by using, you know, words, what she is. And a person came up with 4. And I was like, okay, you came up with 4 because of your vocabulary, not because that's true. And then we just went to like ChatGPT and I was like, you know, give me like 50 words which describes a person. I was like, read through those 50 words, see if you come up with more than 4. And she come up with 12. So sometimes as simple as that is just you just don't have an ability to express yourself. But if you read, you know, in a book or in a test, you're going to be like, yeah, that's me, I'm going to take that. And that's very powerful, I love that.

And also who we're not as well. So being self-aware also means you know what you don't like, what you don't want to work with, who you don't want to attract in your personal and professional life. So your customer will be attracted to you because of who you are, and there's certain people I don't want in my life and there's certain people I don't want to work with. So naturally, whatever my authenticity is, is going to repel those people. And one of the things I will repel is formal people.

Okay.

Because I'm very casual, very down to earth, and very, you know, direct and just casual. And so anyone that's really zipped up formal is going to find me a little bit off-putting, a little bit like, oh God, you know, she's all over the place, or, you know, why is she talking about astrology? That's ridiculous, you know. So they're going to be triggered by you, and that's good.

Okay, that's good.

It's really understanding who are you repelling and who are you drawing in. Um, that's the secret. And not to be shy or try to be a people pleaser and appeal to all people. You don't, you never will appeal to all people. There'll always be about a third of people will love you, a third of people will hate you, and a third of people don't give a shit.

Yep.

And so if you just remember that, you don't get so caught up in those two-thirds. You just focus in on the people that are loving your message, loving your vibe, loving what you're teaching, love what you're enthusiastic about. I often get that people go, oh my God, I just want to be in your energy. You're just so enthusiastic. It's like, well, they're my people. They'll say stuff like that to me. Whereas other people will say, oh gosh, you know, it's all a bit much. It's all a bit condescending or whatever they'll say. That's their, that's them being triggered by my energy.

Okay, so do we want to understand what is that one-third which we will repel by again doing some tests, or is it more like we're doing the test to find ourselves and then that's what we go with and then everything else sort of like flip on the head, you know, all your results of who you are and that's your sort of repelling part, or you do a test as well to understand what you don't like, what you're not gonna vibe with, so you actually are aware of that while you bring, you know, building your personal brand?

The way I look at it is if I look for pain. So if the leader of the organization, the founder, is having pain, Um, then I will go in to fix the shadow of the person, the negative impact. But if there's no pain, they won't change. So there's no point in me focusing in on things that are not their strength.

Hmm.

Like, let's say they're really shy, and unless there's pain around that person being really shy, then we don't change that. We keep that as part of who they are authentically, and they'll be really attractive to shyer, reserved, quieter people. Um, so it's only if there's pain will I focus on it. So let's say, for example, the staff are leaving. They can't retain staff. There's a lot of pain there. There's a lot of cost there. We'll work on that. We'll try and find out What's going on? What is it that is repelling these people away from you as a leader and as a team leader in some way? And to be frank, you're going to have to work on that stuff. And if there's enough pain, they will. If there's not enough pain, they won't.

I see. That's a very good assessment. That's a very good assessment. It's like if we're not feeling pain, If that pain is not getting expressed, in effect, we're not really having a problem. So there's like, there's nothing to fix over here.

And costing them money. Usually pain is costing them money. That's why they come to me in the first place, because there's some sort of cost involved.

So the pain gets expressed in, in impact either to you as a person. So you're not doing it as well in your career or to you as a person, you're not doing as well with the business is getting financially effectively expressed.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I love that. All right. So a lot of people which I talked with when it comes to personal branding, they think it's all about visibility. It's all about social media, posting content, getting likes and things like that. But, um, according to React Power, your personal brand should resonate with your audience whose needs and challenges you understand deeply. So the question is, what are the biggest misconceptions you heard, Katrina, about personal brand which you came across? And as well, how do professionals shift their focus from being visible to actually building real authority within their industries?

Well, I do it through the 7 streams of income. So I'm assuming that we're going to discuss that today. I think that's going to be really important to discuss those 7 streams. But just an overarching concept needs to be considered, and that is that Likes and comments and engagement on social media is not a true relationship. The way I determine a true relationship is if somebody will pick up the phone. So I can have 2,000 people on my social media, but if I phoned them, 1,950 people will not know who that is calling and would not return the call because they don't know who it is.

Do we really want to make that phone call? Is email as good or it's a phone call which has to take place?

It's the same sort of thing really. If I send an email and they don't get back to you or they say, you know, like they just disregard it, then there's no respect there and there's no personal relationship there. So you just get perceived as spam. And so that's to me, just a like on a Facebook post. It's nothing.

Okay, I love that.

Yeah, social media has really changed the game. And in all of my work, I just bring it back to who would pick up the phone call to you, who would answer your email. That's a true relationship. There's somebody there that you've developed with. That's a true relationship. And that's what branding, personal brand is. Is who have you got deep relationships with? And I want that to be with your customers. I want that to be with your stakeholders. I want that to be with your team. I want that to be with investors and so on. It's got to be all those people would return your call, I would assume. And if they don't and wouldn't and don't respect you enough to do it, then you've got some problems.

What scale applies here, Katina? I just want to pick on that. So if we have these relationships where we can actually have conversations, it sort of implies that we know the person. Like, you know, are we talking 100 people? Like, what about 1,000? Like, is it possible to reach an area where you should not expect someone to sort of, you know, pick up your phone and go like, yeah, you know, I know you? Or is it more like the message you're sending online resonates so deeply with people and your personal brand that if you would call them or send them an email and say like, hey, this is me, I know you're following me online, you know, can we have a chat? People would just go like, yeah, yeah, I would love to chat with you.

Well, if you did call somebody or did try to make an appointment with them and they were truly amazed that you were personally calling them, That's at the highest level. And the only time I've ever seen that is when I've come off stage. And so my whole business is built on me speaking. And if you don't speak, you are nothing to them. They haven't connected with your message. They haven't connected with you. Whereas when you come off stage, there's something amazing about that moment where they understand who you are, what you're about, your vibe. They connected with it. And so when I call to make an appointment with them, they're like, oh my God, you were so fantastic! Oh my God, I love this bit in your speech where you said blahdy blah. And so there's this connection that's happened even though I did one-to-many. Um, it doesn't matter. You've projected your philosophy out into the world and it's picked up a third of that audience who are now what I would hope is a super fan.

Okay.

So, yeah, social media stuff, and then they connected, and then if you rang, they would know who you were.

So is that really, um, a key piece here we uncovering, Katrina, which is that you need to go and speak, as in, you know, public speaking or doing podcasts or just, you know, webinars or whatever. You, you want to go and actually get your audience and you want to you know, do a little bit of public speaking situation to actually get that connection. Is that very critical to get your personal brand to an authoritative space?

Yeah, like that's my philosophy that I've been preaching for 25 years. It's the sales and marketing piece that I do and teach and that's the end of it. Everything else is just window dressing and a little bit of top of mind, like social media is just staying a bit top of mind that it's not what I'm relying on to get my sales. Um, I am relying on speaking to do that. And for that one moment in time, you've got to remember that the world has stopped. For that one moment in time, they are listening to you. On social media, you're just part of the scroll, you're just part of the noise, you're part of the white noise, and they may or may not notice you, or the algorithm may or may not give you them. Whereas when you're on stage and when you're speaking to people like we're doing right now, for that one moment in time, they've stopped, they're with you, they're working out, is there a connection? And what I'm saying is either resonating with them or it's not. And if it's not, well, they're probably already gone. Who's got time for that crap? So for the rest of the people who— the third that are probably loving this moment with us, and really enjoying this moment that we're having, are sitting there going, yeah, yeah, really, that really makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Oh God.

Yeah.

And they're into it. So that's who we want to be talking to right now. And they're the ones we're reaching out to and we're connecting with. And if we are good at what we do, we'll be connecting with them.

Okay, that's excellent. I love that. That's finding your tribe, isn't it? That's finding your people.

Yeah, I call it educate. So don't think of it as sales and marketing. Don't think of it as a speech. Don't think of it as a talk. Don't think of it as a presentation or a keynote, whatever. I don't think of it as any of that. All I think about is educate. So if you get up and you educate them about whatever you care about, which is your tech or your thing that's changing the world, educate them. Don't sell them anything. Just educate them about what it is they don't know, and the rest happens organically.

I love that. That's a big value behind the show as well for us. That's why we have the word mastering in the title, is that there's many things we don't know. So we want the guests to come on the show and teach us about what they're doing and, you know, the topic we're discussing. And then hopefully, you know, we give actionable tips our listeners can take and apply in their daily lives. So that piece of educate is baked into the show as well as a big value for us. So I really love you saying that.

Oh, my pleasure. It's true for me, very, very true for me. And it's what I teach. And I want you guys to get on stage and speak anytime you can, but speak to educate. Don't speak to sell or market yourself in any way. Just be genuine, authentic, real, and your tribe will find you. And connect with you. The other two-thirds will just say, I don't care, don't care about that, no pain, no pain. So they're not interested. And others are like, oh my God, I don't think that at all. I disagree completely. But there's the other third that you've won for life.

I really love actually how you put that, you know, speak to educate, don't speak to sell. And I go to many events, you know, it's one of the the number one, I would say, strategy where I go to, you know, find guests and sort of spread the word about the show and what we're doing and everything. And you see a lot of people on stage, you know, talking. And there's a big difference between the talks of where people come to educate and really share what they learned so others can learn, and the ones which come to sell. And very big difference. And the moment you hear people pushing stuff, you go, you just get this off-putting vibe, and you go like, you know, I'm just gonna go refill my coffee and just stop listening. You know, it's like, because you know they're pushing something, it's very, very, very noticeable. The energy is just very different, right?

So there's a real art to it. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, public speaking. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a huge skill, and, uh, I'm personally as well, you know, learning that. And, you know, big goals for this year to, to do public speaking and It's a lot more— what's the word I'm looking for— it's a lot more complicated and it's a lot more scientific than you would think. You know, people imagine if they have a topic to talk about, they'll go on stage and everyone's going to be, oh, that's amazing. But to actually deliver an impactful speech is just like anything else. It requires a lot of practice. There's a science behind that. And yeah, it's a very—

you can do is memorize.

Oh yeah, yeah, I do agree.

It's, uh, especially people that are not naturally, not natural speakers. Um, and the way I do it is just freefall. I've done all my prep, I know my, I know my topic, off I go and I just freefall. And I teach my clients and have done for over 25 years teaching people how to speak. Um, and it's, for me, the way I teach it is that it's just got to be real natural and freefalling. Forget your notes, forget everything, just freefall. And that is a great speaker. Anything other than freefalling is not great speaking. It's not that good to listen to.

Okay. So most people rely mainly just on one income source, maybe salary, freelance work, maybe consulting, which effectively is risky. The personal brand has the power to unlock a lot more income streams. Which is the, you know, the core topic of today. So can you break down the 7 income streams professionals often overlook?

Yeah, so grab a pen, let's just write them down. So the first one is your book, the second one is speaking, and I want you to circle those two and link them together. Then the next one, after you've got the book and the speaking, then you put them into a training program. Then you put them into, uh, coaching. And then once they've done training and coaching at the basic fundamental level of your philosophy, then you can move them up into mentoring and facilitating, and then finally consulting. They're, they're the ones.

Okay, so how you I mean, the book, which is something we're doing as well with the show, so it's a nice coincidence, is that, you know, the question I asked in the beginning, which is, you know, what comes to mind when you think about mastering tech growth, and then what would be one big thing. So what we, you know, sort of preparing is what we call the de facto book. So we just want to take all the things people give as the most important to scaling a tech venture and sort of, you know, make a deep dive around these topics. But the book is a lot of energy, it's a lot of time, and it's a lot of money. Would you, would you still like start with the book before doing anything else, such as like mentoring and consulting and coaching?

Well, what I see out in the industry and where people go wrong is they go and create the online program first and I disagree with doing it that way. I disagree with, you know, all the things. To me, you've got to sit down and do the rigor in your thinking around your philosophy. So the first book you should write is your philosophy book. What do you stand for? And so that's what we develop. And I do it a done-for-you model. So we're into self-publishing, Most people's book and whole brand is set up in 90 days under my program. That's all great, but the book is not as hard as you think, but you do need to do the rigor because what I'm doing is I'm layering down a layer of confidence. So after you've written your book and we've edited it 1,000 times and you've read it and reread it and sorted it all out and we've done all that work, there's a level of confidence that you step up to. Then we take that book and we turn it into a keynote. So this would be your TED Talk. And again, in the preparation of the keynote and bringing the book down into a 20-minute, 40-minute, 1-hour speech, um, there's some rigor to that. There's another layer of confidence. Now, the reason people don't have confidence is because they haven't done the rigor. So I think you need to do the rigor up front, even if you see it as a big deal. To me, it's not a big deal. I do this all day, every day. Um, it's— it— but you've got to do the rigor. You've got to know who you are and what you stand for, and that needs to be in writing. And for some reason, don't ask me why, books today still have gravitas.

They do.

It's not the podcast. It's not the webinar. It's not anything else. The book still has gravitas. You're not the expert until you've got a book. You still have to have a book, but the book is more than just positioning you as the expert. It does that heavy lifting for you. Great. But the most important thing is the confidence that comes with knowing who you are and what you stand for and having done the rigor, because now you can teach it at depth.

Okay, so you said the very first book will be your philosophy book, what you stand for and all these things. But why would anyone even read that book? Like, like, no one cares, you know, who Mike is, and why should I read his book about his philosophy of you know, life or topics or whatnot? Or am I misunderstanding that concept of first book?

Yeah, it kind of is interesting. Um, there is some wonderful books out there, and yes, there's multi-million dollar books being sold all the time, and people sell tens of thousands of them. Great, great, great. To me, the book positions you as the expert and opens doors for you. And, um, when they see that you've done a book, they they see you as the expert, the authority. So it doesn't matter that they will never read that book. It doesn't really matter that they don't even open it. They just have a look at the table of contents and they see all the headings of what you stand for and some of the topics that you could expand upon. So it's, as they used to say, it's a very expensive business card, but I tell you what, it does a lot of the heavy lifting for you. So a book is really, really a great gift to give people instead of a business card, give them a book and whether they read that book or not, they still get a sense of you because the branding, the feel of it, the table of contents and I can hear all the experts out there going, oh yeah, they've got to read the book, but do they?

No, they don't have to. I do agree.

I never read any of my books.

Yeah. It could be just one of these things where you know someone has a book, you check the book out, like you said, you check the table of contents. Maybe you consume audiobook just for speed, but the fact that someone has a book, I do agree. I love the expensive business card analogy. That's a very powerful one. But I do agree. It definitely opens door. Um, so what we're effectively saying, I mean, there's a huge value for yourself, uh, because you're building your personal brand. So, you know, that, that's, that, that will help you because if you write the book, it will allow you to think about what you want to teach. It will allow you to think about the topic. It will allow you to construct a table of contents, approach, ideas, and, and, you know, your philosophies, as you put it. It will give you confidence. It will give you that expensive business card, it has a lot of value to you first, and then the secondary is, you know, to the broader market if people actually will consume your book. Is that a good assessment?

With the book, when you come off stage— so put it this way, the book has got you on stage because the organizers said, oh, she's got a book, she specializes, she's the expert in that thing, okay, let's get her up to speak. So there, there you are, the book's done some heavy lifting, it's given me an opportunity. Now I get up on stage. Now people have gone, oh wow, and connected with me and my message. So they want a t-shirt from the rock concert, so they buy a book. In our world, we don't have— we're not in a band, we haven't got a t-shirt from the rock concert, but we have books. And so people want to— when people buy a book from you, they're saying, I want a t-shirt from this rock concert, I want to trinket, a memento from meeting you. It's a way of taking you home with them. And so the real super fans will actually go home and read that book in 2 hours and just have more of the yumminess that they experienced. And so they will do that. But what I am more interested in when I come off stage is that they've filled in the form for a free discovery session, that is where the rubber hits the road.

Yeah.

In that form, I will never see them again, probably for the rest of my life. And if they buy a book, I will never see them again for the rest of my life, potentially. Whereas if I've got a free discovery session, then I've got a chance of building a relationship with them further from the summary they just heard. And a keynote is a summary of my body of work, not the whole thing.

Yeah. Well, if they fill the form, you have them in your pipeline effectively. That's, uh, you just close the gap of I know you like me, but I don't know who you are to I know who you are and we're gonna chat. So that's, that's, that's what you want, right? That's, that's, that's, that's the big win. So can I ask this, um, Katrina? So why can't we just start with like coaching? And, or maybe mentoring and understand the problem space, you know, go on these calls and maybe they cheap, maybe they free, and, you know, and just understand what people are struggling with and then take these concepts and then put it in the book. Like, why book needs to come first? Like, actually, no, let me rephrase this. How do I even know what to write in that book?

Well, that's my genius zone. So my genius zone is to sit down with the person and draw the philosophy out of them. And I can do that in the first 15 minutes of the free discovery call.

Mm-hmm.

Because those people come to me with no concept of that. People don't even know what I do. They liked the message, they enjoyed my vibe, but they don't know what they're getting when they come to the free discovery session. The free discovery session is really magical. This is where you add a lot of value, a lot of thinking to their lives that is pertaining to them and only them. Everything else up to this point's been generic. The book is generic, a generic message. The, the keynote is a generic message, but the free discovery session is one-on-one with you and your brain thinking about them personally and how all this applies to them and how— where's the opportunity between the two of us. And so that is where the free discovery session comes in. Now, where people go wrong is they say something like, free discovery session, 15 minutes, free discovery session, 30 minutes. Stop. Do not do that because 15 minutes, 30 minutes, it's a sales call and people know it. Whereas I'm on the phone with people for an hour because I'm truly taking the time to unpack them, give them value. Whether they buy from me or not, they at least know their life's purpose and their destiny, like, just like that. And I, I want them to walk away going, whoa, that is not what I expected, and whoa, I had no idea. That's what a discovery session is all about, is Discovering something that they don't know is possible.

That sounds great. I want to do that now. I want to do that. I want to have your free discovery call. Like, I love that. That was a great pitch. Can we put a link in the show notes for everybody listening to just come in and do, or is it just you hand give discovery calls, or is it just like something people can just go do right now?

Yeah, yeah, let's put it in. I'll just put it in now.

Okay.

Chat, chat, chat, chat. Where's the chat, chat, chat?

Yeah. We'll take this. I mean, we'll put everything in the show notes. So people listening, if you want to do the magical discovery call with Katrina, just find the link, go do that. And I really love how you put it. It's like you need to, not you need to, but your goal with that call is to effectively wow the people and just give them something where they would go like, this is amazing. So I really love the angle of that discovery call. Okay, so we got get the book out. This opens doors to speaking. Go speak. Then you're building a training program. So what's your philosophy or approach to building a training program?

The training The training program is actually the signature program. This is where you actually make really good money. This is where you're really earning a great living. And only now are they understanding and valuing the training program or the signature program because you're gonna take the book and turn it into a live experience. In the book, you don't give away the farm. In the training, you're giving away the farm.

Mm.

Because, and that's why the training programs are thousands of dollars and the book is $20. Can you see the difference? You don't give away the farm for $20. You give away the farm for $5,000, $10,000. And in my program, I, I only teach having a premium high ticket item. I don't talk about Ascension Model. I don't talk about cheap and cheerful. I don't talk about $49, $69, any of that. I'll give all of that away for free in the discovery session, right? Whatever they need, they get it. What I'm interested in is creating signature programs for people that create the transformation, end-to-end solution. Not a little bit, not a taster, not a half-assed, not a one-off, not an ad hoc, none of that. What people want is they want to transform. So give it to me, baby. Give it to me. Like, give me the end-to-end solution. Now, if they can't afford the end-to-end solution, you watch, they'll go away, they'll sort it out, they'll find a way, they'll come back to you. I'm never worried about anyone that can't afford it. Um, we've even got financing now where you can do my program for like $100 a week. It's just amazing. But that's only new. That's only just happened. So Where I think what drives me crazy out there in the marketplace is people are selling me module ones, people are selling me this or that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. I'm not interested. I want to transform. I want to know everything you know. And so give it to me. And I need— I give it— I give everybody everything I've got in 90 days. I build it for them, put it out there, brand built, ready to go, 7 streams of income. Let's go. After that, then the 12-month program continues because now you've got to practice and you've got to get out there and I just tweak you and give you confidence and mentor you along the way.

Okay.

Yeah, you need everything in 90 days. You don't need it in 12 months. You don't need it in 18 months. You don't need it in 100 steps from now. You need it now. Give it to them.

Yep.

And give it to them fast.

I love the vibes behind that. Um, I, I, did many programs myself, still doing, you know, it's part of that growth mindset we talked to, you know, you cannot stop evolving yourself, right? So, and I resonated very well when you said, you know, here's a module 1 for X and then, you know, you can buy a module 2 for XY. That's like, I know it's a sales funnel. Like I know this, you know, technique of going for like free value, low ticket value, value, higher, low. And then, you know, I know this is like a roping process because I know that process, you know, I build those funnels myself, you know, for others. But it is annoying, isn't it? It's like once you experience one twice, you go like, look, like I just need to know everything you got there. Like, you know, like just, just give me that information. So I really love you put that with that enhanced energy as well. Just give it to me, baby. That was good. Yeah. I love that. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. I don't want to have to sell in 3 times, 4 times and lose people along the way. You either want it all, you either want to transform or you don't. So let's get on with it and not worry about money after that because it's done, it's paid for. Let's just do the work.

And the work will be, it must be done. Like it's not going to be easy. I want to ask about the program, uh, so are we saying this is offline or are we saying this is like live program? Is it something you record and you give so people can watch, or is it more like, you know, interactive sort of like cohort situation?

The way I work is one-on-one, completely live, completely personalized, and that's why it's high ticket. I'm not interested in doing generic training, in group training, in online pre-recorded, because The stats are terrible. Um, 95% of people don't even open online programs. Um, 75% of those that do open it, 95% of them don't complete. So I don't like any of that. I'm serious about developing. I want people to actually do the work and get it done and launch and be ready to go and have all their assets built. So that's why I'm a done-for-you, one-on-one, um, 90-day setup, and then the rest is all coaching and mentoring around you living this lifestyle, um, now. So I, I just have experimented over 25 years, and that's what it's come down to. And I loved it about 10 years ago, or about maybe even 5 years ago, the market moved to done-for-you. And if you notice Done for you is actually trendy now, but I've been doing it all along. It's just, it's only just people are starting to realize that these online programs just aren't cutting it. People want personalized, they want access to the expert. This is the other thing I hate is they don't have access to the expert, the expert that knows. What the experts are doing is setting up these programs, the group coaches people and they don't know anything. You die by, and by opinions. Everybody's opinion is different, whereas the expert will say, this is what I think, this is what I know, this is what I recommend. Whereas the group will say, oh, you should do this, oh, you should do that, you should buy this, you should buy that. It's confusion. So that's what they're paying for. They want to have access to the ex— expert. So I believe one-on-one, done-for-you premium product, one-on-one is the go, and they do not want to be fobbed off to some person that hasn't got your 25 years experience.

Okay, so is this— can we say that this is your values? Can you— can we say this is Katrina and, and she loves one-on-one? She doesn't do the groups because she doesn't believe in that, and that's her brand that she will high ticket you, but you're gonna get all that personal attention. And this is just your personal brand compared to others, you know, who actually go like, you know what, to get me, you'll need to pay 6 digits. And otherwise, you know, he is still, you know, good cohorts run by people I teach them or whatever. Like that's their brand. Like, can we say these are two separate brands or it's more like a business module? So like, there's no numbers for you, but if there would be numbers, you would still do, you know, like groups and stuff like that. I'm just trying to understand, you know, is it more like your perception and your brand, or is it more like, no, no, the business doesn't work in, in that space?

It is, it is a business model, and so people are buying my business model, and they're either into it or they're not. If they want to do, um, group work and they want to do train the trainers and certify other people Um, to me, they can do that down the track, but they've got to be the expert first. And so to me, year one is all about one-on-one, getting to know your customer, go deep, get experience, get out there, do it all. And then in— when you're really popular and you've got hundreds of people that want to do your course, sure, record it. Sure. Palm them off to other people, sure. But for me, I love doing the doing, whereas other people are over doing the doing. They don't want to have anything to do with the customer. They don't want to touch you. They don't want to speak to you. They don't want to waste their time with you. And I just think that the, the way the coaching industry's gone is a little bit— I think it's lost its heart. And it's, it's lost its touch. And so what I want to— I want my clients and people who are attracted to my program, get joy from the giving, get joy from the teaching, get joy from building something that's very personal and specific to that person. And yes, I think it is my personal brand that there's good money in it. And I've also looked at other business models and there's not the same amount of money in it. If I sell $199,000 times, see nobody, touch nobody, and just hope to God somebody opens it and hope to God 2% of those people complete, I'm sitting there going, oh, oh, well, where where's my interaction? Where's my people? Where's my relationships? Where are they? They're nowhere. Absolutely nowhere. So I wanna live a life of touch and connection. And yes, that's probably my personal brand. It's probably my personal values. And it's also what I've learned along the way. I still do coaching. I still do training. But I do that more business to business. So businesses will get me in to do the Leadership Management Masterclass. But the beauty of doing that is that I'll teach that for 2 days or 3-day retreat. And then from there, I'll find my customers for Becoming the Expert within that group. So to me, it's almost like 2 bites of the cherry, 2 revenue streams. And so fantastic, go for it. And I'll teach my clients how to do Okay.

That's excellent. That gives a good understanding of, you know, how people can approach building their first programs. So then we move into coaching, mentoring, and consulting. Can we actually unpick what's the difference between those two? I want to throw in advisory as well, just because I feel like people, like I've seen that, swear to God, I've seen that online. Someone in their title, you know, when you have a name on LinkedIn and there's a tagline of what they do. It will go like coaching, mentoring, consulting, advisor. And I'm like, aren't these the same things? It's like, so from your perspective, Katrina, like, what's the difference?

Okay, so all of those titles— author, speaker, trainer, coach, mentor, facilitator, and consultant— are all one thing: educator. So if, if you just want one title, keep it really simple, minimalist. Educator. So I educate in 7 different ways to 7 different groups in 7 different kind of arenas. Um, and so if somebody just wants to read the book, they can. If somebody just sees me on stage speaking, they can. Um, but there's going to be a whole bunch of people that want the training, and then there's going to be a whole bunch of people that will do the coaching and so on. So what I do is explain when I'm teaching people how to be this I explain to them the difference. So training is, I've got an agenda, you've purchased that agenda, that agenda ticks your boxes of what you want, and I'm going in there with a very specific path already laid out, and we're going to start at A and we're going to finish at Z. Let's go. Coaching is where I ask questions. So anytime you're asking a question, you're coaching. Anytime that you're telling somebody from your experience what you recommend, you are mentoring. So I do a lot of mentoring because we don't have time for coaching. They want to know what I think, how I do it, and they want to know how to do it. So just tell me, let's not muck around with what do you think. If you knew, you wouldn't be here. So they want to know my opinion. So that's why I do a lot of mentoring. A little bit of coaching peppered in there, but mainly mentoring. And then, so mentoring and coaching are related. And then training and facilitating are related. So training, as I said, there's an agenda. I know where I'm going. Facilitating is advanced. It's saying, here's our topic, here is our general direction, but we're gonna find out the wisdom in the room. You guys are gonna teach each other. Because you're advanced. So that's the difference. Sometimes, uh, your beginners fundamentals, the start of your signature program is training, but then in the second year they'll purchase facilitation from you.

Mm-hmm.

And then the final one is consulting, saying, come in here, have a look at all our green lights, have a look at all our red lights, and tell us what is, uh, you know, can be improved.

So consulting is a little bit more hands-on when it comes to providing tangible outcomes of your work, like documents, strategies. Like, I'm like, what's the difference? Like coaching, mentoring, very clear mentoring. You'll just, you'll just give the answers. You know, coaching is more about asking open-ended questions and allowing the person getting coached to sort of reach their own conclusions and, you know, get things connected in their head. Mentoring is like, here's what I know, go and use it. Well, the consulting for me is like, it's mentoring, but like, there needs to be like tangible assets which is being provided, you know, like some type of like documents or videos or something like that. Is that the correct assumption or am I wrong here with consulting?

It can be depending on what it is, but In a way, consulting is taking all of it. So sometimes you go, do you know what, guys? You just need training in this. Let's go do the training. Other times you go, okay, this is your problem. All right, we need to coach people in this. And then other times you need to mentor people. And other times you need to facilitate some sort of change, some sort of development thing. So to me, consulting is like, that's why we get the big bucks because we're looking at all those things that we can do. Now I like to break it up into 3 parts. Here's what you're doing right. Here's what's amazing. Let's green light. And, and so that they understand what are their strengths and what to keep doing. Green light. And they're like, oh great, we've got all this good stuff. Yeah. And now I've now articulated that for them through my research. And then the next one is amber light. Amber light is you need these changes, but it's a combination of me and you in a blended learning solution. And then the red light is, oh my God, this is terrible, this is awful. Here's all my solutions to fix all these red lights. And this is where I might say, do my training program, do my coaching, do my this, do my that, or here's, here's what I recommend you do with all this other stuff. You know, you might refer on to somebody. So to me, it needs to be broken up into green light, amber light, red light, and tell them that's the report. The report is showing them that. And so then they can choose, what are we going to do first? What's a priority? What can we push off? What can we afford to do? What can't we afford to do? Um, let's make some decisions about now that we can see our business from a helicopter point of view because they're in the weeds. They can't see any of that. The beauty of a consultant is they know where to hit the nail, whereas they, they don't know because they're in it every single day and it's invisible to them. The consultant should make invisible visible.

Okay, I really love that. By the way, the Green Amber Red, it's called Traffic Light System, and it's, it's It's pretty much everywhere. So I love the simplicity around that approach. We use traffic light system in like, you know, projects, you know, is this project in green? Is it in amber or red when it comes to delivery, risk management, very similar. It's actually quite prominent. Okay. So consultant would come in because they're not part of the business. They are not sucked into business as usual operations. So they don't really have the blinders of what works, what doesn't. They have a really big distance from a business. They will come in, ask questions, they will construct that list and then propose how to actually solve things and effectively unveil the issues to the CEO or a business owner. Okay. What about advisory? Is that just the same thing as saying like mentoring or consulting?

To me, advisory is I don't want to get my hands dirty. I just want to come in. Once a month, once a quarter, and just give you my view. Take it or leave it. Here's my opinion. I will advise you based on my experience. Um, but they don't get their hands dirty, and nor should they. They should never get down into the nitty-gritty. Consultants, to me, should be able to provide the solution or know where to go for the solution. Whether that's a tech solution, a soft, you know, like a software-type solution, or whether that's a training solution. To me, where consultants fall down is they don't have the underpinning, the psychological underpinning of change management. They don't have the training experience. They don't have the coaching experience. They might have the mentoring. They know how to tell people what to do, but they don't have the psychological piece. So that's why I think most consultants, and this is how we've got a bad name, I think because we come in, we make all these reports and then what? Nothing ever changes.

Yeah, thanks for that.

How to get people on board.

Exactly, you need to drive that, like the change management of any of that, like it needs to be driven with energy, stakeholders buy-ins, otherwise it's just information on a piece of paper, like it doesn't yield any tangible value adds to anyone within the business. So is the advisory then much, much closer to mentoring? Like, because when I think about mentoring, it's very similar in a way that, you know, we have a conversation, I'm just sharing my opinion. It's still going to be up to the person getting mentored to go and execute against that. So, so if we put on a scale left mentoring, right consulting, advisory would be much, much closer to mentoring, right?

I would agree with that. Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that. I would say that's correct. I think the beauty of a consultant or an advisory or a mentor of some sort is— and I know from my own personal experience of doing this work for 25 years— is that I can get away with murder. I can say what the executive can't say. I can say things and get to things a lot quicker. And that's because of the psychological underpinning. So all consultants need to do some sort of leadership management people piece training to really understand people who are doing this work. It's not just a change the software to this, it's change the way people see things, feel things, do things. In the office and that changes culture. And most culture pieces, most change management pieces fail. The statistics are they fail because the people piece is missing in my view.

It's a strong view and I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Everything what business is, is a bunch of people coming together and trying to achieve a common goal. It's all about the people. It always was, always will be, unless AI will take over some jobs, then we'll have some people slash AI cultures or whatever. But it is the people who does things, you know, and get things done. So you start at the fundamental, which is the people. So I think we just made a like full 360 trip around this episode, back to the beginning where we said that the most important fact to scaling business is the people factor. All right, so I want to ask this question, um, Katrina, because you mentioned 5, 10 years ago, uh, done-for-you sort of came to the market, and now it's very, you know, very common. But you were doing this, uh, back in time, which, uh, raised this question in my head of, of your development and, and your approaches in your career of 25 years of, of doing this. How your approach, you know, to building personal branding sort of evolved, right? So if we think about 25 years back, how that looked like, 20, 15, 10, and now, like, are there any key moments which comes out as, as were very influential of how you yourself changed how you teach others about personal branding?

Oh yeah, well, there's two stories. One story is the how this all started. And that is, I, um, never wanted to have children, and I found myself pregnant. And long story short, I ended up having a miscarriage. But that experience changed me forever. And, um, in, in that moment where I was obviously— now looking back, I was obviously quite vulnerable and not myself because of this grief. That had happened. And so in that moment, I saw an ad, I responded to an ad, and long story short, I ended up investing $30,000, which was a lot of money in 1999, um, to invest in this business with this guy. And what I learned was that he had nothing. So essentially what I'd bought into was some sort of scam. And I went to my legal people and I, and I sat down with my barrister a close family friend, and I said, here's the story. And he goes, yep, you, you know, you'll, you'll probably win that case. You've got all the documentation, all the evidence that you got ripped off and scammed. And he said, let me just ask you a question. And I'm like at the edge of my seat going, one question? That's all you want to ask me? And he's like, yeah, just one question. Is there any chance that you learned a $30,000 lesson. And I just remember that moment, just my whole body went, you know, just like in that movie where the blue lady changes the scales. In that, in that movie, she goes, that's how it felt. And I went, oh my God, yes! And I realized that I had everything I needed inside of me already. I'd already done the personal professional development, I was good to go. Why was I seeking this man? And why was I paying this man who had nothing, nothing like what I had? And so it just completely— the rest is history, essentially. Um, that's when I got on with it, and it was the greatest lesson of my life. I thank him to this day. And, you know, out of adversity obviously comes these great lessons. So that's the first story. The second story was I started doing Becoming the Expert in group training. And so I would tell them what to do, tell them the steps to take, get them to write it all down, get them to do it all in their own notes. And then I would turn around in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and go, is it all set up already? And they had done nothing. There was no book, no keynote, no website, no brand, no training program, which was a signature program. Had no customers, none of this. And I'm like, oh, that's so frustrating. I can't have that. So then I started to take the bull by the horns and I started to go, well, hang on a minute. This is not good enough. I can't leave them to their own devices because they don't know what to do without my influence around telling them, you know, getting them moving, making it happen. Nothing happened. I can give them the information, but they weren't taking the action. So, and because it was so overwhelming. That's why. I mean, it's just simply so overwhelming. There's just so much to do. So I started to experiment with done for you and boom, books were happening, websites were happening, everything was being built, all the assets. And I slowly over time just got quicker and quicker at it. And now I can do it in 90 days and I make the complex and the, you know, it looks simple and they don't need to know any of that. It all just happens quietly while they sleep. And they wake up to a self-published book, they wake up to this and that, and the web, the brand just appears out of nowhere. I like to think of it as magic. I like to make it a magical experience where it just happens magically. And now I love it because I'm in control of their progress. I make it happen even though they would have self-sabotaged themselves and done nothing if, if left to their own devices.

Yeah, that's actually a very, very important piece. And I want to ask a question about this. So when people start thinking about the personal brand, they start doing some actions to kick off something, right? Maybe, you know, watch the YouTube video or went to Module 1, you know, low ticket value. Something happened. They kicked off some type of actions which are meant to build their personal brand. So that's one, but then sticking with it and actually taking all of that process to the point where you actually have an influential personal brand, which takes time, takes a lot of energy and money. And so, so sticking with it is actually quite problematic. And I would say that's where majority of people go like, oh my God, you know, that's too much. And, and, and, and all of that and the consistency of all of that is, is, is really what makes the success, right? So the question is, um, any habits or systems or frameworks or anything like that that, that helped you, or how you help, you know, your clients to actually stick with all of that approach to build that personal brand? Or is it more that you build the system which is done for you in 90 days, and effectively that, that problem of consistency and sticking with it just disappears because there's nothing, 90 days later, boom, there's your personal brand.

Yeah, it's all there. And then they've got to spend the rest of the time actually going out there and speaking. If they speak, they'll get clients. If they don't speak, they won't get any clients. Simple as that. So I just sort of show them how I do it and give them a few low-hanging fruits to get on with it. But I want to teach them how to fish. They need to know how to fish. I can't just keep giving them a fish all the time because that's the problem. They're institutionalized from their job. Now they're an entrepreneur. Now they need to be self-motivated. That's part of being an entrepreneur is you are self-motivated. You don't need somebody to tell you what to do. You know how to get up in the morning and get it done. And failure's not an option. So what I look for in my clients is people that are hungry, that actually want it. What I found when I select my clients in the past is anyone who's not starving doesn't do the work. They won't. They love that they've got the personal brand, but they won't do that next bit. So I like people that are hungry. I call it starving. The ones that are starving, that failure is not an option. They're the ones that do the work. They're the ones that succeed. And, um, that all comes down to me now picking Who do I want to spend a year with? What projects do I want to work on? And what will stimulate me? So I'm picking projects that are different every time, that are a joy, and I pick people that I just love and adore. So I want to do work that I love with people that I love.

And yeah, recipe for success is you pick what you want So that, that, that, that motivates and driving you. And then the people who are starving, as you put it, they motivate it as well. So both sides coming together with huge energies to drive all of that forward. That's, that's the recipe for success. I love that. So habit-wise, if we, if we think about the habits, you have your brand right now, but, but you have to have that. Well, drive and hungriness to actually get that into point of success. So I'm just thinking from a, from a habit perspective, is it as just simple as wake up and, you know, and put a couple of hours a day to actually make it happen? That's as simple as that. Just, just be consistent. Get, get everything, not everything, but get something done every day. That's the, that's the simplest habit to make sure that once you have the brand, it actually takes you somewhere.

Oh yeah, look, these days you can actually hire a VA to actually do all the outreach, and so you're only receiving the hot leads. That's the way I like to do it. But not everybody, if they're starting from scratch, has the funds for that. But even these days, that's very affordable to get one of those people to help you out. So the admin, to me, there's sort of almost two problems. That business owners have. One is they're terrible at admin, so they're not well organized, and so people are like faffing, wasting time. They're not efficient and they're not effective. I teach people how to be efficient and effective with their administration of their lives, the administration of your business, the ex— you know, the administration of your day, your week, your month, your quarter, a year. So I'm big on productivity stuff, really big. The second piece, and you guys will love this, this is where you guys will have this as a strength, whereas a lot of my clients won't have this as a strength, and that is a healthy respect for technology. If you've missed the ball with technology, you are stuffed in today's world. So yeah, I, I want my clients to have a healthy respect respect for technology. I want them to engage with the right technology that helps them in their business. Not all this stuff that you guys all know, because you guys, if you're tech entrepreneurs, then you know coding and your high-end technology. But to run a small personal brand business, you need to be tech savvy because you're zipping around doing all your biz, making it all happen in an efficient and effective way. Where I see people struggle in business is they've lost the ball on technology and technology has left them behind. So they're really gonna struggle.

I actually love this. This is one of my green light checkboxes when it comes to buying businesses. Like I love to see, you know, a good years in the business, a steady cash flow and then technology sort of not implemented within the business. That's a It's a very good leverage point where you can come in and put in the tech, put in the automation, and take that business to the next level. So I get that notion of, like, you have to respect the tech. I mean, it's there for a reason, and it can make you so much more effective and efficient. 100%. 100%.

Yeah. And there's some key things that I look at to make sure that you know, their businesses as streamlined as possible. And the way I set everything up, I do it so that they're independent. Um, I want them to be across it. I want them to know how to maintain their business and update their little business. Anything big they can come back to me for, but the day-to-day, they— I teach them how to run their business now that I've set it up for them. But they didn't know how— they didn't need to know how to build it. They didn't need to know how I did it. It's just they need to know how to maintain it. So I think where people go wrong is they waste 5 years trying to work it out by themselves and they spend about $75,000 over 5 years that's wasted. Mm-hmm. So I like to think that I'm saving people over $75,000 and 5 years if they work with me. And that's a proposition because we're going to get it done. I tell you what, we are going to get it done because I'm pushing the train, I'm pulling the train. You're not, the client's not, because the client doesn't know what the next step is. I'm going to do the next step and that's when I will reveal it to you, but not until you get to that point. So that most people are just overwhelmed with about 50 billion things that they have to do. I don't reveal the 50 billion things. I do most of that for you, so you never even know that you needed to do it. And then I just teach you the bit that you need to know and when to do it, not I need to do all this stuff. And that's what happens in business. People are just simply overwhelmed. When they're overwhelmed, they do one of two things: the wrong thing or nothing.

Yeah, the wrong thing or nothing. Yeah, I can resonate with that so deeply. It's like, I, I got so much things to do, uh, and I found myself very, very often in that situation where you got so much, so many things to do, you just go ahead and you just take a nap. And you go like, I can't deal with all of that right now, so you just go take a nap. Or you're trying to rush through things, so you half-assing all of your items and then effectively none of that is really impactful. You feel busy, but that's what I call bad busy because it's just, you know, you feel like, oh, I'm, you know, doing so much, but you need to take a knee and you need to, you know, have a day, a week, or have some type of process where you allow yourself to just sit and think of what really matters, you know, tomorrow, next week, next month. Set good goals and then go after them. The focus is so important, so important. So very last question, Katarina. So a lot of people listening right now, they'll go like, oh my God, all of that sounds amazing, but you just overwhelmed me. You gave me 7 things. You gave me public speaking. You gave me a book. You gave me a program. I'm like, where do I start, man? So, so the question is like, what is the smallest first step people can take in their journey of personal brand building?

Just write your table of contents. So just sit down and go, well, but if somebody just met me and wanted to work with me, what would I teach them and in what order? Now I do that for you, obviously, but if you want to just get on with it by yourself, just sit down, grab a cup of coffee or a beer or something and just go, okay, what's the first thing? And then what's the next thing? And then what else do they need to know? And then once you've got first draft, you can then start to mix and match that around and just switch your rooney and get it right until you can look at that and go, that is the logical way I would teach my philosophy. Because there's the outline of your book. The book should write itself if you can get that.

That's probably, I mean, that's amazing advice and thank you for that. It's a very actionable tip people can literally go in and do today. But I'm now like thinking a lot of people will actually struggle to put that table of contents together, which basically leads us to that realization that if you have a mentor or someone to help you with, that will just save you $75,000 and 5 years of all of that process, right? That just goes back to why mentors and mentorship exists, right? It's just. To get people to the next step much, much quicker, with much better result, uh, save a lot of failure and type of situations. So great episode, Katina. I love that. I mean, we gave the 7 hidden income streams to people, which I'll, I'll say that again. It's a book, it's public speaking, it's creating your training program, it's coaching and mentoring and consulting. So if people want to learn more, Katina, about all of that, about your Done For You programs and everything, and that free consultation, first call, which is the magical one. How can they find you? How can they get in touch with you?

Just go to becomingtheexpert.com.au and you'll see right up the top free discovery sessions. So just click on that and book in straight away and we will do your table of contents and draw out your philosophy. Um, in that call. So you actually can have that absolutely for free. You don't even— if you need to get started in that way. So I'm more than happy to draw that out of you, and you'll watch how it's easy for me. Um, I don't know, it's because I'm practiced or it's just my thing. I don't know, it doesn't even matter. What matters is you walk away with that clarity about who you are and what you stand for and what you should be educating about if you're going to do 7 streams of income and not leave that at the table. And you go off and just do that, the sales come in. People are connected to you. Whereas, yeah, you've got to be out there educating your market about what it is that you're passionate about and what drives you crazy about your industry.

I love that. Thanks, Christina. So for anyone listening or watching this online, just scroll down to the show notes and there will be a link for your convenience. Just click on it and as Katina said, just book a session and kick off your personal brand building journey. If you find value in the show, what we ask is hit that subscribe button, share the episode, and leave us a question in the reviews. Thank you everyone. And as always, till the next time, stay safe and see you online.