Zero Ad Spend, Maximum Growth: How Ben Sharf Built Platter Using Founder-Led Content

So let me make this clear, right? Founders show up to win. Not because every post is perfect, not because they spend big on ads, but because people buy from people, not logos. In 2025, which is this year, founder-led content is the fastest, most sustainable way to build trust, attract customers, and scale. And all of that without really spending big on ads. But let's be honest, I mean, it's very likely you're gonna spend something on ads. But what really happens if you stop to market as a company and you start to lead as a founder? Hey, what's going on everybody? I'm Mike Sirius and this is Mastering Tech Growth. Every week we chat with industry leaders to bring you no-fluff tips on how to grow. If you enjoy the show, please do me a favor, subscribe and send me your biggest growth questions at masteringtechgrowth.com. I'd love to know what you're working on and what keeps you up at night. Joining me today is Ben Sharf. Ben is a co-founder of Platter, where he helped to build over 160 Shopify storefronts for brands like Mrs. Meyers, Neuro, and Everyman Jack. He as well raised $1.6 million to launch Platter Plus, interviewed over 75 top founders on his Turning Pro podcast, and backs 20+ startups as an active angel investor. That's a very busy man right there. Today Ben's here to show us how founder-led content, not ad spend, can be your biggest growth driver. Ben, thank you for finding time for us.

Thanks for having me today, Mike. Happy to be here.

I mean, we had some technical difficulties. People, of course, watching not the live recording, they will not know about this, but we had a bumpy start, let's say like this. What we'd love to start with, Ben, is this question. When I say mastering tech growth, what comes to mind?

Mastering what growth, sorry?

Tech growth.

I mean, I think it's really about understanding, for me it's about understanding what you're good at, figuring out like where you can lean into your superpowers to build an unfair advantage because that's different for every single company. I think it depends on the space you're in. It depends on your own personality. It depends on your budget and resources and ultimately where you think you operate in your zone of genius. So for us, organic content has been the main driver. I think to your point before, we've never spent a dollar on ads. Everything has been organic for us.

So literally not a single dollar on ads. You don't even have like Google Ads account, no Meta accounts, like no ads accounts.

No, we actually talked about it Friday for the first time about potentially testing it like in Q2 or Q3. Yeah, but we've never spent a dollar on an ad yet.

I really love that. I mean, ultimately when it comes to traffic, you're either gonna buy traffic or you're gonna, you know, build organic traffic. So what you guys did so professionally and so well is that you tripled your capabilities as a business and that literally was all organic, all through the thought leadership or founder-led content. And I really want to ask this, Ben, and you mentioned that zone of genius. How you define this?

I mean, I think it's figuring— I think being honest with yourself is the most important part of it all, right? Like, I think there's people who are good at certain things, not good at others, but they lie to themselves because they want to be good at something, right? I think being honest with yourself about where you actually excel And then figuring out how you can spend as much time as you can doing the thing you're good at is important. Like, why, why do we hire people for our companies and our teams, right? You hire someone who's significantly better than you at something that you're not great at to take that thing off your plate.

Okay.

Right. So that is like my philosophy is you shouldn't hire someone unless they're significantly better than you at at least one thing. And ultimately the goal in doing so is to allow you to spend more time doing the things you're actually good at. Right. For me, it's relationships and storytelling. Obviously, as a founder, I have to spend a lot of time doing things that aren't necessarily my superpower, if you will. Like, I still have to get my hands dirty and do a lot of operational work. But if I can maximize the amount of time that I can spend building relationships and making content and telling our story and making sure as many people as possible know who we are and what we do and why we exist, like, then I think we're gonna be in a good spot.

Okay, how, how one recognizes what they are good at and what they are not so good at? Is there like a reflection exercise you would advise?

Like, I have no idea. That's a good question. Um, I think part of it is like the feedback loop that you get, right? Like, if I started putting together like wireframe mockups for my product team, they'd probably start laughing at me. Um, but I think, I think part of it is probably Being honest with yourself, uh, using people close to you as a sounding board. Um, and I think really just like iterating along the way. I think you'll ultimately, it's a lot easier to figure out what you're not good at. Right. Like I always say, if you're not sure what you enjoy doing, like try different things and figure out what you don't like first. Um, but I think it's, I probably, it's probably the intersection of what are the skills that you've been mastering for your life. Uh, what do people around you think? And then what are the things that you do that are getting you the highest ROI? Obviously ROI can be quantified differently depending on what it is that you're doing.

Yeah.

Um, but kind of finding that intersection of what you're good at, what you enjoy, and where you're seeing the most results is probably going to be directionally in your zone of genius.

Okay. I really love how you put that in. Just so simple. It sounds so simple, but honestly I've been struggling with this, I don't know, for like 3-5 years now. I love, I know what I love, but it's not marketable. It's very hard to commercialize things I love. So you mentioned this one phrase and you said, you know, understand your superpower. And some people, they want to do something because it's marketable or it, you know, has a good ROI, but they're not really good at it, which means it's not really going to have good results. And I'm one of these people. Like, I look at trends and I'm like, oh, you know, like, I could do this. But then I try to do this and I'm like, I'm quite shit as a result. I'm not performing that well. So effectively what you're saying is recognize things you don't like. You start with that. And then whatever is the leftover, you just iterate over time, over time to find, as you put it, your superpowers.

Yeah, I think there's like two philosophical approaches to this, right? On one hand, do you know who David Goggins is?

David Goggins, uh, he's like the guy, like a motivational—

yeah, motivational speaker, went through the Navy SEAL training, whatever. His philosophy is like, find the things you suck at and get better at them, right? Like, embrace the suck of the things you're not good at. His whole thing is he was like 300 pounds. Yeah, he tried to run, could barely move, and now he's like the craziest runner in the history of the world, right? So his thing was like, find what you're not good at and get good at it. I would say that I take the opposite approach, which is find what you're good at and get really good at it and find someone else to do the things you're not good at. So there's just like different ways you can go about it. Like my example that I would give you, I'm a very extroverted person, right? Like I get energy by being around other people who feed off of my energy.

Yep.

I did a coding bootcamp years ago where I moved to Silicon Valley for 4 months to learn how to code.

Yep.

Right. As an engineer. And I realized, I realized very quickly that like, that is not the thing that I'm going to be good at because my personality does not bode well for it. Like I'm way too ADHD to like sit there and like learn how to code and like sit in a room for an extended period of time without talking to people. And I was honest with myself about it. Like I liked this idea. The whole reason I went to do that to begin with was because I wanted to build an app years ago and I didn't have any budget to like hire someone to build it for me. So I wanted to go learn how to do it. And like that was the moment that I realized that it just was not the thing that I was put on this earth to do. As much as I wanted to be good at it, like there were just other people there that were so much better than me at it who had the personalities and the skill sets to do it. And that's not to say that like if I spent the next 5 years of my life just coding every single day, do I think I can get good at it? Yes. But again, like if I spend my time doing the things that I'm naturally good at, I think that I will be better at those things and there'll be a higher ROI for me in the long run. If I'm focusing on the things that I'm already good at, that I actually enjoy, and that I can continue to like progress at. Okay, like why would I want to wake up every day and spend my time doing things that I'm not good at and I don't really enjoy doing? It just sounds like a miserable life.

It's not what the Goggins would say.

No, the Goggins would say the opposite. He would say you suck at it, great, go do it until you're good at it.

Yeah, like enjoy the grind.

There's nothing wrong with that. I think my, my message for like people listening to this it's not to say that like I have the right answer. It's like these are kind of your two options. Which mentality do you subscribe to? Like, I actually, I made a post about this on social media the other day. I had a very successful entrepreneur say to me one time, make your A's, A pluses, and find someone else to do your C's for you. And that never left my brain.

I love that. I mean, I would be a subscriber to that camp, to your camp. I do believe that you should be leaning into what you're naturally good at. Double downing on that because that's where you're gonna find your edge. And then everything else you could probably delegate or, or just hire people to fill those gaps. I'm on that one. But I do respect, um, getting better at things you don't like. I think this mentally teaches you things, you know, such as like consistency, uh, discipline. And so, so there's pluses and minuses in both camps, isn't it? Yeah.

And I think, look, I also think there's— it's a spectrum, right? There's levels to it. But I think the other piece is how do you decouple it between like what you're doing professionally versus like personally, right? Like this isn't me telling you if you want to be better at art and you suck at drawing, like you just shouldn't draw, right? Like this is fully in the context of like business building for me.

Yep.

Not like I, I love doing things that I suck at on a personal level. Like I love challenging myself physically, you know, like I started boxing. That's like my latest endeavor. Like I saw, I wasn't good at it, but I was like, I want to challenge myself physically. I think the context of me talking about this philosophy of finding other people to do the things you're not good at is solely in the context of business building. Yeah, because you like, if you want to scale and you want to build things that are premium, like that will appeal to, you know, the biggest and the best, like you need to get really good people supporting you on it.

Yeah, I love that. All right, so, so the answer to the question of what comes to mind when it comes to mastering tech growth is effectively leaning towards your superpowers, is leaning towards your zone of genius, and operating from that spectrum. I love that. That's a very, very nice— no one had that before. Now I'm thinking that we had a lot of like market fits and timings and, you know, solving real problems. But Ben just gave us understand what you're good at and lean into that. I love that. All right. So one thing which I feel, and I've seen that work very well on social media and founder-led content, and I think all the gurus teaching of how to actually leverage social media saying the same thing is that you have to find a point of view which is yours, which is unique to you, and you effectively need to lean into that. And I have this quote from, from Harvard Business Review saying that executives who communicate a strong point of view, even one that challenges the industry status quo, are more likely to build deeper customer loyalty and brand differentiation. So question to you, Ben, is that When you started doing all of this for yourself, or maybe Platter, did you feel like you have a strong point of view, or did that actually come with time?

Definitely the latter. I think the biggest mistake that a lot of founders make who aspire to be content creators or do founder-led marketing is that they overthink everything.

Yeah, I'm one of them.

They want the perfect equation, the perfect formula. And I was stuck in that cycle for so long. Um, and eventually you just realize that like the way that it goes is iteration. Like the best, the best question that I pose to people, I'll ask this to you. Uh, what do you listen to? Any podcasts? Like what's your favorite podcast?

Mastering Tech Growth.

What's your second? What's your second favorite podcast?

Second is, is Lenny's podcast.

Okay. And do you remember the first episode that he put out?

No, I started watching him probably from like 70-something. He's on a couple hundred now. I don't know his first one. That's a good— it's a great question.

But that's the point. Yeah, right. Like, think about content creation. No one remembers, right? Like, you post, you post, people forget about it, and you iterate. So like, this concept of knowing your angle on content, to me, step 1 is consistency. Step 2 can be figure out your angle. Yeah, you need to learn how to be able to flex the muscle to show up every day and post content. And once you've mastered the consistency piece, then you can hone in on the actual angle you want to take to perfect your craft.

I love that. That's a very good exercise you just took me through. So if you look at your favorite creators and you go like, what did they do 2 years ago? You have no idea.

No clue.

Yeah, people don't remember that much. So the memory window is maybe, you know, like a month or 2 months. I'm now thinking about like, what is the latest I listened of Lenny's? And I'm like, okay, I do remember WordPress co-founder. That was like 3 weeks ago. I don't remember anything before that. Yeah.

And probably in a month's time, you're going to forget about the episode that you just mentioned.

Exactly.

Well, hopefully not about the— it's not about the specific piece of content. It's how they made you feel.

Okay. So what advice would you give then, Ben, to people thinking like, okay, you know, getting into the like stuck state because they don't know how to start and they overthink the content strategy. They want to, you know, build out almost like 6 months of like content or something like that. You basically going like, look, forget about it, just start doing stuff.

It's very rarely the reason that people don't get started. It's very rarely because they don't feel like they have a strategy, and 99% of the time it's because they're scared of being judged by other people.

Because they are scared of being judged by other people.

So effectively we're saying because posting content can be cringy, right? Like everyone has this fear that they posted a vulnerable piece of content and you got one like and one comment and and your, your close friends and your family are texting each other like, look how weird that is, that person posted that thing. Yeah, that's always the blocker, is people— it's the, it's the fear of perception of how you're being viewed by others. Okay, there's no, there's no way to become a consistent creator until you can get over that hump.

So what if I, like, let's say I have that fear and I want to post content and and I feel like this fear is actually influencing who I am. How bad is that, that I'm actually shaping what I'm saying because I am afraid to be judged of, you know, what I'm saying?

It's terrible because people don't actually give a shit. To be honest, if you can never get over that, you're not going to make it.

Yeah, so you're not going to build a founder brand because there's no point of view then. There's no you, right? You're just, you're trying to be political and it's going to sound fake in the end.

It, yeah, it removes all your authenticity.

Yeah.

Right. Like the whole point of your founder brand, I think the other thing that people get wrong about building a founder brand is that oftentimes you think that you're doing it like solely just to get customers. And the only way that the customer is going to come to you is because all you do is post about the problem you're solving every day. That's not true. Like people follow founders who post content because they actually fall in love with their story and they want to support them and become an advocate for them. The part about you getting customers is a byproduct of that, of that trust, which that relationship which is built.

Yep, 100%.

And the other thing that I'll note is it takes months and years to build trust, and it takes 2 seconds to break the trust. So you— that's why you always need to be like cognizant of how you're acting and what you're posting.

I love you said it takes a couple of seconds to break the trust, but it takes years to actually build it. Did you see someone breaking the trust and just losing an edge? Like, do you have any examples?

I mean, it happens, it happens all the time at the highest level in the content creator world. I mean, I'll give you an example. Uh, this is more into like the YouTube world, so less like founder-led, but if you know who David Dobrik is or Logan Paul—

Logan Paul, yeah, no, that name—

Logan Paul was a big creator and then he got caught doing something that he shouldn't have been doing and all of a sudden he was canceled across the internet and it, you know, messed him up for a little bit of a time. But like, I mean, you can bounce back from it, but he had to rebuild.

Yeah, okay, so yeah, that's a good shout. So effectively we're saying he was not honest. As an example, along the way, along the journey, he built a trust which was based on some fake authenticity or based on some fake values or stories that people—

he just did something, he did something that betrayed the trust of his audience, of his audience, and people just were like, nah, nah, we out.

Okay, so we're saying effectively you need to be authentic, you need to have a point of view which expresses that authenticity. People will fall in love with your story. And effectively you're gonna get your first fans, your followers, and from that point on you effectively iterate on the content, potentially you're doubling on the content which gets most views and comments, and you're finding your niche. But wouldn't that take you into potentially spaces you don't want to go? You know, let's say I'm posting about X and I'm seeing people resonating with, you know, something which is a little bit away from X, you know, like Y, and do I want to follow this trend or do I want to just stick with who I am?

I mean, I think that, that is like a— that is a personal question.

Okay.

Uh, I think I've seen people go both ways. You have some creators who just follow the trends and they try to optimize for virality. So I would say their growth curve is a little bit more exponential. And then you have people who maybe stay true to who they're— who they are, and it's a little bit more linear, but that person probably is going to have much higher retention in the long run.

When it comes to your—

if you're a fan, if you have a fan who falls in love with you because you did a viral trend versus you have a fan who falls in love with you because you stay true to who you are for an extended period of time, like, that, that person is probably more likely to show up for you and be a more loyal customer or fan or whatever the term is for a longer period of time.

I love you calling that one out. I feel like that as well. It takes longer. It's a very slow burn exercise. But the relationships you're building and the trust you're getting, it's, it's more yielding churn-wise, let's say like this. Right. So you mentioned consistency, Ben. Can you tell us what is consistency in your point of view? Is it me posting every day or is it me actually showing up maybe once a month but still being once a month every month, you know, for a couple of years? Like, how do you define consistency?

I don't think it's a black and white answer. I think it's different for everyone. I think everyone has different cadences, but I think it's the— to me, what consistency means is that you establish some level of consistency, however you want to quantify that, whether it's daily, weekly, monthly, every other day, whatever it might be, and actually just stick to that. Because what, what typically happens is people will start something because the beginning is always easy and exciting, and then when it gets boring and monotonous, people drop off. Like, you know, do you know the statistics around podcasting?

It's terrible, Ben. It's— yeah, it's—

if you post more than 21 episodes, you're in the top 1% of the world in podcasting on a quantity basis.

Yeah, it's like 80% of podcasts die off after 20 episodes.

Yeah, yeah.

It's— if you've been in a business for a year, you're already in the top 5 or top 8%. And if you've been in a business for 3 years consistently posting, you're in like 0.1%. It's a Yeah, it's very hard to be here, let's say like this. It's a very tough market. Why do you think it is like this, Ben?

I mean, I think if you're talking about podcasting specifically, I've thought a lot about this. I think there's a couple different pieces to it. I think the first one, it's really hard to grow a podcast. So if people don't get that feedback loop of vanity metrics, they get discouraged by it. I think the second one is that majority of podcasts will never be in a position to monetize. Um, and podcasts are very hard to maintain because if you think about it, everything from like, if you're doing it in person especially, it's like you either need the equipment or the studio. You are, and if you don't have your own studio, you're beholden to someone else's schedule, someone else's producer, your time, your guest time, just to produce the episode. Then you need to do the production, post-production, and posting. And all the branding, all the guest research. Like, there's so many pieces to this. And if you can't, like, if you don't have the budget to delegate any of it, it's very time-consuming. So if it's very time-consuming and it's very hard to grow and you're not getting any feedback loop, it's like, why would anyone want to keep doing that for an extended period of time? Like, you wouldn't. And the data shows.

So ROI is just not appealing for, for majority.

It's not appealing and it's not sustainable for most. Like, if I told you you're gonna spend, I don't know, 10 hours a week every week for the next 2 years filming, producing, researching, editing, posting for your podcast, and you're not gonna get a dollar, you're actually gonna lose money, does that sound exciting to you?

Nope. No, still doing it.

Yeah, exactly. But that's because you're in the, you're in the 0.1%.

I love it. I, I mean our journey while we're here is effectively to grow myself. And that's why we have the mastering in the title. So I want to talk with industry leaders. I want to learn stuff like this conversation is value to me. Along the way, I want to teach others. I want people to tune in and get, you know, the same value. So for me, it has intangible values of investing into myself by having these conversations. I feel like that's why I'm still here after a year or so. I fully get why people drop off. It's a very unrewarding journey.

Yeah, 100%.

From monetization perspective. All right, let's go back to the episode. So we talked about consistency and I want to give that quote from McKinsey. Brands that maintain consistent, high-frequency communication outperform competitors in both customer trust and long-term growth metrics. So it's very, very clear that you want to keep that consistency. And a key point you mentioned, Ben, is that people just get bored. And effectively, you know, they run out of ideas or creativity around the content they need to post. So when you started or what you're doing right now with the Platter, how do you guys fill out like your calendar? Like what's your process of thinking about content and how you have, you know, the future sort of facing content strategy?

Yeah, I mean, I think people underestimate the fact that you can take one idea and spin it into like 20 pieces of content. Uh, and I think the other thing too is that you don't need as many novel ideas as you think you do, right? You can have like a core set of ideas that are novel and repurpose them, uh, in different ways. You can tell the same stories in different ways. But I don't know, I think I'm maybe not the best person to ask that question to because I feel like that I, I'm an ideas guy. Like, that's the thing I have too much of.

Okay.

I think the other thing as well, like if someone's like, I can't think of good ideas, my advice is genuinely just to like live your life that you're already living and just take note of things that happen. You know, like think about the conversation you had with the person on the subway, the thought that you had while you were exercising, like the interesting feedback that your customer said to you on a call. Like everything can be turned into a piece of content.

How?

Like I'm sitting in my room right now. It's like I have a calendar on my wall, like the big ass calendar. I don't know if you've ever seen that. Yep. Like I can probably come up with 10 posts right now just about the calendar.

So if people struggle with this ideation process and they just potentially they do have ideas, but maybe their own head gets in the way where they overthink stuff. Oh, okay, that's not going, you know, that's not gonna perform. That's a shit post. I need something more. And they sort of just put themselves in a position where they feel like, okay, I don't have anything to post. Like what would be your advice? How do you overcome that?

Um, I think like get— not being so hard on yourself. Like I said, flexing the muscle of posting is the most important thing. So just posting anything is better than nothing. Like obviously within reason to the point that it's not like detrimental to your brand. But I just think that people always want the perfect post, but like perfection comes through iteration.

Yeah, you can't—

right? Like think about, think about like a tagline for a business or a product. You didn't just like wake up one day and the first idea you had is exactly what it was for the next decade. Like it's constant iteration, it's feedback loops, it's hearing from customers, talking to people, brainstorming, like tweaking things. It's the same with content. It's like an ever-evolving, ever-evolving process.

Okay.

You know, like I don't have it all figured out. I'm still trying to evolve as well.

But you're doing very well. And what's your daily habits been? It's like when it comes to content production, you just mentioned just follow your life and sort of share things you're experiencing in your own journey. But do you have, do you have a, uh, like a process? Like, do you do like, you know, an hour of thinking, an hour of scheduling, or, you know, recording a voice-to-assistance so they can make a post? Like, do you have a process of how the content goes out from your head to social?

I mean, I have, I would say, probably a more robust process than what's actually needed, right? Like, I have a team of people who are helping me in different aspects of my content journey.

Okay.

Uh, anything from like people who are actually the ones taking the posts and uploading them. Uh, when I do the podcast, it's like my videographer is uploading all the content. I have an ops person who's organizing all the content. I have the editor that's actually going in and editing the content. Uh, and then it's just getting distributed into our content calendar and posted. My whole thing with content, and I think anything that you do for that matter, is, as I've mentioned, like optimize for consistency, right? So for my podcast, it's like, how can I set up a process where I genuinely can see myself doing this for the next decade? And it's the same thing with content.

Okay.

Like I, I would say in some ways I'd probably go against the advice I'm giving other people, which is like, just start posting. Like I was very methodical about it in the sense of like, I wanted to understand the different pieces that go into it and figure out how I can just make sure that I can do a lot of it for a long period of time. So for me, it was like building systems around it first to ensure consistency, right? I now have a system in place where like if I go by and there's a day where I'm super busy and I didn't have a chance to like think about it, like I have a ton of posts and content in the backlog that I have something that I can throw up there just to like stay consistent.

That's excellent. Do you have any approach when it comes to how you deliver content, like visuals plus text, only text, you know, videos, short, Do you have any general advice of what right now works and styles of writing? You know, I've seen different templates being promoted by different influencers, you know, which seems to land better with people reading and things like that. Like, do you go scientific like that, or do you just like share?

Uh, I just— I test different types of posts, but I would say that mine is always, uh, it's always changing. Like, I don't pick one style and just stick to that. You know, like video is performing really well right now on LinkedIn, but I do carousels, I do image with text, I do videos. Like, I just, I try to just keep it authentic and I try to diversify it, honestly.

Okay. That's a good approach, isn't it? Like, if you don't try everything, you don't really know what could be picking up. You know, videos on LinkedIn became a thing like a year or two ago. Before that, it wasn't really a thing in LinkedIn and it just suddenly started to picking up. So you want to probably try different things of delivery of that content. What type of content do you do, Ben? Is, is it entertaining? Is it education? Is it purely related to Platter as a business and what you guys doing? Is like, what's your go-to when it comes to, uh, the topic of the content?

There's a couple different pillars. Uh, I think one is just like entrepreneurship. And like the founder journey, right? It's like talking about what works, what doesn't for me. I think another one is talking about Platter and just like building, like the different aspects of building a business. Um, and then I think the other one is just like whatever the fuck I want to talk about.

Yeah, I love that one.

Sometimes I just have interesting ideas or anecdotes and I'm like, I think someone else would find value in me sharing this.

Do you actually think like, or you just go and share it? It's like, that's what I want to say right now. I'm gonna go and share it. Or do you put through the filter of like, would anyone actually care to read this?

No, it's usually just like I want to share it, but typically like my subconscious filter is like, would someone else give a shit?

Right. Okay, so, all right, so I want to read this quote, uh, that's from Endelman's Trust Barometer. So educational content and transparent sharing of expertise are the top two drivers of trust in business leaders. So effectively, you, you're doing this. By the way, did you know that? Or, or you did this quote from, from the Trust Barometer?

No, I didn't. I mean, I would assume that educational content is a thing that builds trust because people lean on you as a thought leader.

Yeah. So you, you basically were just doing this by default, and it seems that majority of market is just doing this because it, it works. But from science perspective, that's exactly what builds trust is the educational content, because people perceive you as a a thought leader, which is a buzzword, but effectively it is because you know the topic. And the second one is just transparently sharing your own wins and failures in just your life. That's what builds trust as well. So I love that. So where you right now, you know, you guys effectively went with the Platter from being somewhere to, you know, to going 3x. You raised money for the Platter Plus offering. What do you, like, how does the founder-led content play into the broader strategy to grow the business? Let's say you are where you are right now and let's project like next 12 months. Is the content-led founder, you know, from you or from others, a big strategy for your growth or is it just something which exists around it?

Yeah, I mean, if the historical data is any indicator of the future, it's probably going to continue to be that way. You know, like we've landed our largest customers, we've landed some of our largest investors, some of our best hires all through founder-led content. It's just like, I can't really, I can't emphasize enough how valuable it's been. I think like you need to detach the vanity metrics from the value that you're getting because there's a lot of people who consume your content who maybe don't like and comment on it every time you post something. Uh, but that's not to say they're not paying attention to what you're doing.

That's a great one. Okay, okay, so, so I'm not with you, I'm not commenting, maybe I'm not engaging, but I'm still seeing you. So what you're saying is that even if you're not getting likes or impressions or things like that, there's still eyes on your content, very, very likely, which potentially later becomes a huge leverage for the business. Is that the right assumption?

100%. We had one customer, she sent me a LinkedIn message one time and was like, hey Ben, I've been following your content for the last 4 months. We're looking to make a move to Shopify. Like, really appreciated everything you've been sharing. Like, would love to find time to talk. And we closed them.

That's nice. Right.

But it's like, I was like, I didn't even know this person existed.

Yeah. That's the power of internet, right?

100%.

While we in this space, I wanna ask this, like, so ultimately you share the content and you're not selling your services, you're not selling the product, you're just sharing your founder's journeys, you know, your learnings, your educational content that leads to these relationships. So the example you just gave is a very good example. So now you in the DM, right? So someone reached out, it's a warm inbound reach. How do you close that without actually going and becoming too salesy in that relationship?

I mean, they're in that scenario, it's like they're coming to you asking for it.

Yeah, right.

They're kind of like rolling out the red carpet for you to be like, all right, now actually tell me what it is that you do.

Yep.

I think it's the, it's the power of relationships, um, understanding how to communicate, how to play up and down to someone's vibe depending on how they are, right? Because like no two sales are the same. You have to like read the room. You have to know what works, what approach works, and it's just something that you do through repetition. But like, there's nothing wrong with selling yourself. There's just a time and place for it.

So you don't feel like you go to like sales mode? You know, like a lot of conversations I'm having where it comes from the perspective of relationship building initially, that you can really sense when, when people go from like, hey, I'm here to provide value and build the relationship to I'm now selling to you.

It's part art, part science. That's, that's the beauty of it. That's what separates good salespeople from bad, in my opinion.

Would you say you are a good salesperson?

I like to think so. All right, well, okay, look, at the end of the day, everyone is selling something. It's not necessarily— it's not necessarily their business, but it's like you're always— there's always something that's going on.

Well, ultimately, yes, exactly. I mean, you can give a lot of value for free, and you're sharing the value to, to build that trust, to build that relationship. But once that advances to somewhere, there's going to be some type of exchanges, right? So someone will pay for your knowledge or your service or a tool, or maybe there's going to be some barter, you know, someone will introduce to someone and it's just— but ultimately, yes, I feel like we're always selling something. It can be—

everyone is. It's like even if you're posting content, it's like not necessarily am I, Ben, selling you, Mike, on reading my content, but there's always like a narrative.

Yep. I love that. I love that we're calling this out. Let me give this quote from Forbes. Brands that focus on relationship-building content see 3 times higher conversion rates compared to brands that rely on aggressive sales messaging. And I really wanted to get your opinion and your approach into that process. So what I do, or not what I do, but what I get on LinkedIn is what people call a pitch slap. It's just so often you connect with people, right? And you accept their connection request, and the very first message you get is like, hey man, this is what I'm doing, this is all my services. Literally a pitch lab, right? Like, how do you guys approach when it comes to cold outreach? You share the content, you know, you're getting some traction, maybe you're seeing people liking your or commenting. Do you then follow up, you know, send the message? Like, how does a general process for you look like when it comes from content to an actual sales pipeline?

We don't really do cold outreach.

You don't? Okay.

No, like people, we've, we've tested it, but it's not, it's not the most fruitful thing for us. I think it's more like by people seeing your content all the time, you're very top of mind for them. And then when you meet them, whether it's organically or not, like you then just start to have conversations. It's kind of just like I talk, I think about it as like this rabbit hole of like value where you post enough about something, someone might inquire to talk to you, or someone will see a name or a face they recognize that makes them feel comfortable to do so. Um, but very rarely is it like I'm hard pitching you in the DMs. It's like I'll make a post and I'll have someone DM me and be like, hey, I saw you post about this, like, would love to find time to chat to learn more.

Okay.

Um, but it's very much like content and organic content for that matter, uh, around the concept of selling is very much a long tail strategy. It takes a lot of touch points, a lot of trust, and it definitely compounds. So you need to be willing to be patient. If you post content for one week and then you're like, all right, like, where are the sales? Like, you're missing the point.

Define organic content, Ben. You mentioned that a couple of times. I just, just for people to understand what you deem organic content.

I mean, it's just like something that you're posting that you're not necessarily putting a bunch of paid advertising behind. You know, it's like a picture of, picture of me sitting at my desk and my, the thoughts that I have.

Okay. That's, that's what we mean organic content. So let's say I'm a founder, right? And, uh, let's say I have followers and I feel like, um, I'm just sharing content, you know, I'm sharing free resources. Maybe I may have some emails as well. You know, maybe I have, uh, some type of pipeline where people get, uh, free PDFs or, you know, whatever. And I have emails, but I have no idea now how to take this and how to look at them and sort of try to convert them into your customers. Like, what, what would be your advice? Like, how do I bridge that gap?

Yeah, I think it's like, uh, you have to lead with value, number one. You need to build relationship and you need to build trust. Like, you, you should be able to sense qualitatively based on the dynamic when you're talking with someone, like, if there's an opportunity there for you. You almost want to make it feel as though you're doing them a favor. I think that's like the easiest way to go about it is like creating a sense of FOMO or perception where they're actually the one that's losing out by not opting into doing whatever it is they are offering.

I love that positioning. Yeah, you can see that a lot online where people give so much value for free that you receive that value and you learn from that value or you apply that value somewhere and you see positive outcomes of it that eventually you almost feel like you owe that person something. And they go like, you know, here's how you can help me. And then you go like, you know what, I do want to help you. Like, I think I would even get more. I really get that feeling myself with people I follow. So when it comes to you then, do you guys do like a call out like on socials where you go like, hey, you know, Platter is doing this now, you can buy into something? Or is it more like in the common conversations? Because you mentioned like when you're talking with people, so I'm just trying to understand Where are this communication taking place? Is it DM, comments?

It's okay, it's okay to post salesy content on social media. I think the biggest thing to note is that it can't be the only thing, right? Like, the reason all this other founder-led content is great is because if you post something that's a very hard pitch, that's fine. But if someone sees that every day you just post pitching your thing, they're eventually going to unsubscribe or block you or remove you. So the reason that you need to post more volume is because you can kind of sprinkle it in strategically. Like if you go back to my content and look, like I have a handful of posts that are like very salesy, but it's not the thing I'm posting every single day. So it's not like someone remembers me because all I did was sell every second post online.

Do you have a formula how you do like a ratio? It's like 5 posts to 1 sales post or is it just more like—

No, I don't. It's not that deep.

No, it's not that deep. You just like, time comes where you go like, you know what? It's time to ask something or something, or you have a promotion going on or something like that.

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's more just like, it's more of a feeling. I, if I can, if I catch myself or I'm doing it over and over and over, I'm probably like, all right, you're, you're annoying yourself, you should probably stop.

Yeah, you're probably gonna see some drop in, in like impressions and engagement, I guess, because people, you know, ultimately they will not respond as well to sales type of posts than any other valuable post that's just sort of naturally should have less attention. Okay, so can we go into rapid questions, Ben? I got like, you know, like 5, maybe 10 questions which I feel are still very on the topic but not in what we just discussed when it comes to a broader topic. Yeah. All right. So what's one thing most founders get wrong when they try to build a founder brand?

Uh, they try to be someone that they're not.

They try to be someone they are not.

Authenticity wins every time.

Yeah, we sort of touch on that. And I like, I don't even know who I am. I mean, I'm like, that sounded maybe bad, but when it comes to sharing content online, I went through probably, I don't know, like 5 different ways of doing this and topic-wise and things like that. And I still feel like I didn't find exactly what I want to talk about. I think it's a, it's a most like, it's a bigger struggle than the, you know, struggle than people realize to actually find yourself in a way that you can constantly be authentic and have some fun with posting a content. That's just my general feeling.

Right.

What's easiest way to create momentum when starting from zero followers and focusing on organic growth strategies?

Hit publish.

That's it. That's literally just hit publish. Don't overthink it. Put something in, hit publish, iterate.

Yep.

All right, that's like quick and sweet. If you had to choose consistency or creativity, which one matters for growth and for trust growth?

Consistency.

Consistency. So we're saying that being consistent, showing up, whatever is your cadence and sharing content trumps inconsistency but being very creative with your content.

That's my personal opinion.

Is that because of just how social media algorithms works? Because I'm just thinking from a perspective of like, if you consistent with the content and you're sharing, let's say, low to medium level content, but you're showing up all the time, the social media algorithms will respect that and they will, they will promote your content, which means more people will see it and probably more engage it.

I just think you might have a smaller customer base, but it's probably going to be more loyal.

If you do consistency.

Yeah.

Okay. I love that. All right. What's one type of thought leadership content you think founders should post more often, but most don't?

Contrarian perspectives.

Contrarian perspectives. Can you give us an example?

Say the things that people almost like get uncomfortable by because they're scared to be the one to actually say it. It's like, It's like everyone knows something is true, but no one wants to be the one to actually say it.

So like elephant in a room type of posts.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, they do work.

Like I, there's a founder that I know who crushes organic content and he will, this I don't recommend. I think like this, you need a certain type of personality to be able to stomach, but he will literally call out his direct competitors in his posts. Like, oh, we just released this feature. Like this company's dead. It's like, it's like crazy, but he doesn't— he's, he's authentic. He doesn't care. That's like who he is.

What's, what's his handle? I just want to read these posts. That sounds fun.

His name is Kenan. I can send it to you.

Yeah, I love these posts. They, they're quite entertaining. I understand why they work. How do you decide when it's time to ask for the next step versus just keep adding value when, when using trust-based selling? So effectively, I feel like we touched on this, but effectively, when do you ask for, you know, for something back?

I, I think it's part art, part science, right? Like, it's— there's no right— there's no, like, exact answer to that. It's like you need to be able to read the room and know when that moment is. Uh, I think it just— you get better at it with repetition.

So you're probably gonna make some mistakes, over-ask, be over-salesy. It's just not gonna work. Just take a step back, do it less, produce more value, get that engagement back, and just find your way of doing that well. And it's almost like a gut feeling. That's what we're saying.

Yeah, I think the last thing I'll add to that is that closed mouths don't get fed, right? Like, don't ask, don't get. So you might as well shoot your shot if you feel like it's your chance to do so. Like, one of my co-founders who really spearheads most of the selling for us, he always talks about having to chase nos to get to the yeses. The yeses.

Yeah, I appreciate that. And I feel like a lot of founders as well don't ask enough. Like there's a real concept of just getting in the habit of asking. And I think that was in, you know, the founder of AppSumo, Noah?

I don't.

Yeah, no, you don't. So AppSumo is like a marketplace for like—

I know AppSumo, I just don't know the founder.

Yeah, so he wrote a book which is called something like Launch Startup in 40 Days.

Oh, is it Noah Kagan?

Yeah, yeah, here you go.

Yeah, yeah.

That's the guy. And in that book, he has a whole chapter about why people should just train to ask more. And he goes like, look, just buy some coffee and ask for a discount. Just no reason, just ask. Just ask for 10% off and just get in the habit of asking. And he goes through the whole like science of people are really being afraid to ask. And if you don't ask, well, you're not gonna get it, right? So it's a—

No.

Yeah, it's a very good job. All right, what's the biggest mistake founders make when trying to convert followers into customers?

They assume that they're like actually solving a problem, but they don't, they don't know that to be true. It's like if you don't have a good offering, you're going to struggle to convert followers into customers.

100%.

I think like being confident or knowing through data that whatever your offering is actually works, actually solves a problem, uh, it makes it easier to convert people. Because at that point it's in a way, right? Like when you have a product that has product market fit, at that point you become a marketing company. Company. It's like, how do I just get this in front of as many people as possible? So you can't just assume you're going to convert followers into customers if you don't actually have a product that resonates with your audience.

So if you— hmm, I love— okay, so I'm trying to unpack this. So you're effectively asking, and it's just not happening, and that could be the reason of simply because you're not solving problems for people, or the offer is not solving the problems.

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, sometimes your offer might just not be what people are looking for, and that just goes back to be honest, like using your content and your conversion is almost like a feedback loop. Yeah.

So if people respond to your content, you can draw a conclusion that that content resonates. There's clearly something over there. They're either moving away from pain or they're moving towards the pleasure. You can take some, some conclusions out of this to adjust your offer and go back, try it again.

Exactly.

All right. If you could only pick one platform today to start building your organic presence, your founder brand, would you pick LinkedIn, Twitter, or something else?

LinkedIn.

Why LinkedIn? Because of B2B?

Yeah. It depends what you're building, but typically most business decision makers are on there.

Yeah, that's very good shout. People underestimate, people somehow shy away from LinkedIn, but that's literally where the whole well, not the whole, but majority of internet business is made. We had a couple of guests on the show talking about ads. So buying traffic, e-commerce as well, and some other businesses. And the conversion rates on some of the social medias are just not there. It's just like TikToks and Twitter. They don't have buying habits. You know, the people on these social medias, they are there for information. For fun and consuming information, but they're not there to shop. They're not there to buy. They're not there to do the business. So that's a very good shout out. What's something you used to believe about posting founder content but changed your mind after doing it yourself?

That people give a shit and actually paid close attention to what you're posting.

All right, so you learned that the hard way. You were just like majority of us which had the fear of, oh my God, what I'm gonna be posting? What people will think? And you overcome that by just simply doing it and go like, no one gives a shit.

Yeah.

All right. That's a good lesson. I need to learn that. I still think people care. What's one small habit that made the biggest difference in growing your organic reach over time?

I would probably say engaging with people who engage with your content.

So we're talking about if someone comments, going back.

Yeah, exactly. Just having conversations, responding to comments, and putting like a human element behind it.

So you, you don't just want to spread the content, even if it's valuable content, just share it, share it, share it. You actually want to stay there for a second. You want to look who's responding, who's liking, who's saying what, and you want to drive that conversation. Just, just, just be there effectively, build that relationship.

Yeah, show that you give a shit.

Show that you give a shit. It's a good way of thinking it. All right, so if people love what you're saying, Ben, and they want to learn more about Platter as a business and Platter Plus, which you guys raised money to launch, potentially already launched, what they can find you, how they can get in contact?

Yeah, I mean, you can— my email is ben@platter.com, uh, P-L-A-T-T-E-R dot com. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Ben Sharf. Those are probably the easiest ways to find me.

And when it comes to Plyther, what do you guys do? What problems do you solve with the market?

We build high-converting Shopify storefronts for e-commerce brands.

How are you guys doing now? You're doing quite well, isn't it?

Yeah, it's going well.

It's going well. And we all, you all attribute that success or majority of that success to the organic founder-led content.

100%.

100%. It's such a great story, man. You did that quite well. I love, I love seeing that. Well, all right, so a couple of things to our listeners. If you blitz through the episode, so a couple of takeaways, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ben, or if I'm missing something. One is that don't overthink it, start sharing, and you wanna— the, the quality will come with iteration. So just start, start doing this. Consistency. Think about how you're gonna do this over a long period of time. So if you're thinking strategically, it's not the content strategy, it's actually consistency strategy. Make sure you can remain consistent. If you're thinking about business, choose LinkedIn and then iterate, iterate, iterate, and over time hopefully you get to the place where you can convert your followers into customers. Don't be too salesy. Just build relationships, the sales will come naturally. Is that a good assumption?

Well said.

Well said. Good summary. Right. Well, people, if you enjoyed the episode, as always, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button and send me your growth challenges at masteringtechgrowth.com. I really know what you're working on and what keeps you up at night. And as always, until the next time, stay safe and see you online.