Episode 54: Learning Leadership Skills for the eCommerce Industry with Dan Brownsher

Hi everyone, I'm Ben Wright, successful entrepreneur, corporate leader and expert sales coach to some of the most talented people our amazing planet has to offer. You're listening to the Stronger Sales Team Podcast where we bring together and simplify the complex world of B2B sales management to help the millions of sales managers worldwide build, motivate and keep together highly effective sales teams. Teams who grow revenue and make their businesses actual profits along the journey. We also provide great insights and actionable steps to managing your personal health. A happy and productive year is not only better for your teams, but everyone around you. So if you're an ambitious sales leader who wants to build the highest performing and engaged teams, stronger sales teams is right where you need to be. Welcome back to the Stronger Sales Teams Podcast. The place where we provide real world and practical advice to help you develop super powered B2B sales teams. Today we have Dan Brownshire on the line. I've had a good chat with Dan, lives in Vegas. The place here down under that we think is nothing but party town, but when you dig a little bit deeper is a perfectly normal place to live and raise families. But that aside, Dan has a terrific business. He's very much about strategy in the Amazon e commerce world. He's got a great team globally, he's spread across the world. I'd say he's really now a thought leader or an international thought leader in Amazon retail strategy and emerging e commerce trends. He's a commentator without doubt on Amazon practices, policies, technologies and gets sought after for his opinions through media. Places like Bloomberg, Forbes, MSN, LA, Times, I think are places that have asked Dan for some of his specialist advice over the journey. Dan's spoken on trade shows, conferences, podcasts. We were talking about his podcast experience before and he's currently president, CEO and co founder of Channel Key. So Channel Key is his business that is involved heavily with Amazon retail strategy around the world. He'll advise everyone from multi million dollar corporations through to your fast paced entrepreneurial startups that we know and love. So Dan, firstly, thanks for jumping on board. Great to have you here today.

Thanks for having me, Ben. Appreciate it.

So tell us more about Channel Key. I've given a bit of an introduction to it, but what do you do and why as a business are you so successful?

Yeah, thanks Ben. So, Channel Key, as you mentioned, I live in Las Vegas, but I run a fully remote operation, full service agency focused on strategy, development and channel management for brands on the Amazon platform. Right. So that can be Amazon in the United States, can be in Australia, can be all over the world, mostly based in the US just because that's where most of the volume is happening. So our clients are mid sized brands and enterprise level brands. And essentially what we do is we help develop their go to market strategies on Amazon and then deliver the execution for them on the Amazon platform. And so that can be from doing their catalog work, SEO work, graphic design work, to their analytics, to their forecasting, to their full media placement, media management on the Amazon platform, full funnel media spend place placement. So we're managing hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue through the Amazon platform on an annual basis. Tens of millions in media spent through the platform. I've personally either been selling or operating an agency on Amazon since 2010. And so seeing the growth and development of the ecosystem has been really cool to see. Ben, when you and I are talking it, it is a niche space a bit having an agency focused primarily on Amazon, yet it's very ubiquitous seeing as how large Amazon has become not only in their retail business, but in their media business. And we play both of those sandboxes. So that's a bit about us.

Yeah. Well, cool. It's funny, we were talking about your strategy or your business strategy around Amazon and I said your niche but not niche. Right. It is pretty specific strategic planning and execution for an E commerce platform. But Amazon is that big now that I wouldn't regard it as niche because that many people use it globally. But that's actually what we're going to talk a little bit about today and not Amazon, but we're going to talk about leadership in the E commerce space, such an evolving platform. And I think there's some really important leadership lessons that we can learn, not just locally at the E commerce level, but how it can apply to the broader, in particular hybrid ways of working or remote ways of working if we're going to that level. So let's ease into it. Tell us please what's happening in the wonderful world of E commerce at a top line level now and for the rest of the year.

Yeah, so there's a lot of, I don't know, I think good things happening in E commerce. Right. And in general still to this day, e commerce as a percentage of total retail is still a smaller percentage, but it continues to grow. And we saw during COVID right. We leveled up a bit, perhaps leapfrog a few years forward, but we've seen that settle back in to normal kind of growth, historical growth rates prior to Covid. And so the big topics right now in my opinion, as it relates to E commerce are there's a couple of topics. One is there's a retail media component that is becoming very interesting and compelling and we can talk more about that. But also there's new entrants into the market. You've got the teemus of the world, you've got the sheens of the world, you've got TikTok that is really stirring things up a bit from a commerce perspective and a content perspective. So I think the big areas and focuses right now are. Or the new things that are super interesting and compelling are Timushin TikTok. Right. So Timu Xian is a model that is different than Amazon, okay. I. E. It's allowing factories in a lot of cases to ship direct consumer. Okay. So removing some layers of distribution, which historically Amazon did that as well. But they're going a step further and it changes the customer offering as well. Amazon has built itself on the back of its fulfillment network and getting, you know, deliveries next day or same day or in two days. Whereas Temu, she and the value prop is very wide assortment. Perhaps less brand availability but cheaper costing and longer delivery times. Right. So this is shift, a bit of a shift in how consumers are buying and or that experience is. And then you've got TikTok, you can TikTok platform, TikTok shop, right, which is heavily focused on curation and content that is now shifted into commerce which is super interesting. And then the whole retail media side is a whole thing as well. Whereas retailers like Amazon or like big CPG retailers are setting up their own media networks which is stirring things up a bit. And then I don't depending upon when this airs. There was a recent announcement that Walmart just bought Vizio, which is a massive TV manufacturer for billions. And the reason they did that in my opinion is because of retail media putting more screens in homes, controlling those screens and leveraging the media placement and spend that's going through those screens.

So what I'm hearing is that we're actually seeing a playing field that really it has been dominated by almost one player that's now starting to open up with innovation. We're seeing new entrants coming to the market who not only already have some scale in their audiences, particularly around TikTok, but players like Walmart who have balance sheets and more innovative brands that are coming in to really shake things up for Amazon. So what do you think this means for Amazon in particular?

Quite honestly, I think competition is good. I think it is good for Amazon. And in general, as mentioned earlier, E Commerce is still a small portion of total retail. So there's a lot of blue sky ahead for all of these players. And I think competition is good. It forces Amazon in certain cases to change course and or re leverage themselves in a different way. But in my opinion also I think it doubles down and underscores some of the investments that they have made over the years that some of these businesses just can't simply replicate it. Okay, so like Timushin, for example, like you can't replicate the fulfillment experience that Amazon has built. It's hard. Right? I mean they spent years losing money investing in that infrastructure and temu and she can't replicate that or it's really hard to replicate that. So I view it as a positive for the consumer. Consumer. I think Amazon is very well positioned right now and there's always going to be competitors that jump in. I think some of the hype around TEMU being the Amazon killer and or TikTok being the Amazon killer is vastly overhyped. But I think it's great. I think it's good competition and if any of these retailers or players or marketplaces go unchecked, then that's where the innovation stops. So I think it's a good thing, it's a positive thing.

Yeah, agreed. Absolutely agree. So if you're a sales leader now and you're playing in the E commerce space, how do you think that the increase in competition is going to impact you as a leader?

Yeah. So sales leaders, what it does is require them to think differently. Right. There's more channels to consider, there's more nuance to understand. Okay. And ultimately trying to decide what's the right mix for me to sell my brand or my company becomes more challenging. You've got to consider other factors and variables and information and then beyond, beyond that, where does my brand or my company or my product, where does it most identify with the target consumer? Right. Or my product category. If I'm in beauty versus industrial, that perhaps might define what channel I choose to go down. Right. So beauty is big on TikTok, but industrial isn't. Right. Maybe industrial is bigger on Amazon. Right. So now you've got more options to choose from and certainly there's more nuance to learn around those different marketplaces. So it just requires sales leaders to think and do more research and more diligence and consider who they are today, where they want to go and what is the right mix and channel that they should prioritize. Right. Which resources should I prioritize for which channel? So that's what happens? More choice becomes more choice. And sometimes sales leaders can be paralyzed by that, whereas the ones that lean in and learn can use it as a competitive advantage.

So I think what you've just said is so relevant to sales leaders across the globe right now. And if we paraphrase that, we're talking about an increase in competition from the reduction in barriers to enter markets, from an ease in the ability to compete. Right. And the opportunities for businesses to scale quickly because of the advancement, if you like, in funding offerings that are out in the global market. So as a sales leader, actually strategically looking at who you are and deciding where you want to play, so that is the markets that you're going to play in. It is just so important, that strategic planning piece that you do at the start of the year or fresh during the year that you bring your team in for that you take up a level to the broader macro business. It couldn't be more important. It sounds like in the E commerce markets at the moment, which is very similar to what you need to do globally to be able to succeed. So what I love here is that we have a growing market and a maturing market where we're starting to see leadership behaviors that apply at a macro level really now coming into being important in this relatively or comparatively smaller industry as well. So fantastic. I love it. So if you're also a leader in this space now, you've still got that leader hat on which you are obviously day to day. Is there anything you're avoiding or starting to do quite differently to what you have in the past?

So with choice comes risk. Okay, so if I'm a sales leader, what am I avoiding? It is trying to be everything to everybody. Okay. Because that's the risk. Right? TikTok is really cool right now and it's really hot and there's so much energy around it, but it doesn't mean it's the right thing for me or my brand or my company. Right. Timo Xian Same thing doesn't mean it's right. And Amazon may not be right. Okay? So I think the thing to avoid is trying to jump on the latest trend or the sexiest thing that has become really hot as of late. And again, root yourself in who you are as a brand, as a company, and who you want to be moving forward and who you want to identify with. Right. And so my focus would be considering where I'm at in my business life cycle. Am I early in my launch phase or am I scale and traction phase where I want to grow faster and depending upon where I'm at in that life cycle, is going to determine where I focus and or what I avoid. Okay. And I think it can be really hard to try and be everything to everybody. And we see that with our clients often. Right. Because it's the new cool thing and I want to try it and be there, but it doesn't always make the most amount of sense. It can be a distraction, especially as an entrepreneur. Right. Part of my job as an entrepreneur is to look for shiny objects, but not chase every single one of them and forget about the core business and who we are and who we want to be ultimately. And building the right plan forward that achieves that.

So what I'm hearing is it's for you, in your minds, particularly in the E commerce space, which I think I see at a macro level as well across all industries, is that understanding where you want to play is absolutely critical. But also understanding what you're not going to do is just as important because for me, I live by the belief that your primary goals are the most important parts of what you need to do every single day to succeed. But it's your secondary goals that really can become the enemy of achieving these primary goals. Right. If you give them too much airtime. So by very deliberately saying, we're not going to play here, it reduces that risk of your secondary goals or the nice shiny ball things that you can do that will help but not necessarily drive that business to growth. We need to make sure that we can compartmentalize those and get them out of what we're doing. So we've spoken a little bit at the start about hybrid and remote teams. And I think when we talk about strategic planning, rolling out a strategy globally to a remote team is more challenging than a team that works together every single day. Because you can't necessarily have those moments, those unplanned moments, those corridor conversations that allow you to keep strategically on track. So how do you make sure that as an 80 plus remote workforce, that you keep your team focused on what you need to achieve this year?

Yeah, I love this topic, Ben and I feel very passionate about it and very strongly about it. And that to me, whether we were in an office or in a hybrid setting or in a fully remote setting, the way that I would approach at least running my business would be exactly the same. It would be exactly the same. Now, that's not true for all business types, but for me as running an agency, okay, my business is people and computers and software. That's really what it is. I Don't own trucks. I don't own a manufacturing plant. I don't have those capital requirements or those physical requirements. So for me, it's easy. Okay, so what is the most basic requirement for teams to interact with each other in a really productive and a positive way? And to me, it's communication. So if I'm in a remote setting, how do I create an environment where there's trust, right. There's vulnerability, where I can communicate with you and I can see you and I can collide with you and I can have conversations with you on a recurring basis? You've got to set up your company in a way that supports that environment. And I think hybrid is harder than fully remote. I think it's harder, right, Because I think invariably what happens is you might have certain people that live in a certain geography and others that may not. So some people are in the office, some people are not. When are they in the office? When are they not in the office? It becomes a scheduling challenge. You've got to figure out what the right mix is and the right blend and to make sure that you're not creating factions amongst people that go into the office and those that don't. Whereas if it's fully remote, everybody's in a level playing field. There's no favorites, there's no scheduling issues. Okay. But from experience, and we're really super big on culture and building our team around culture, you have to create space for those collisions to happen. To your point, you're not the water cooler, right? Well, how do you create that space? Well, we're very active in chat case. We create teams around certain topics. We do daily huddles where the team is interacting in an informal way with each other. We require that every single person on every single meeting, whether that's an internal meeting or an external meeting, is on camera. Because guess what? Most of the or majority of the communication that's happening is non verbal. I want to see you. Okay. I want to see if you're. The look on your face if you're. If I think you're having a good day or maybe you're not feeling well. I want to see if your cat jumps across your desk and runs across the screen. I want to see if your kids are in the background and they're home from the school. Right. I think that's a very intimate experience. So for me, you have to create the foundation structure culturally to support running strategy or sales in a remote team or a hybrid team. Doesn't matter to me. It's all the Same. And if you can do that, great. Then you can have really strategic conversations. You can build out a strategic plan, you can execute on that plan and you can be transparent about that plan. We share our business plan with our staff. We show our financials every single quarter. Quarter. And guess what? If we were in the office, I would do that, the same thing. But I can also do it in a remote setting. So to me there's really no difference. Right. I can have a workshopping session remotely if I need to. I can have a whiteboarding session remotely if I need to. Now, will I miss something at some point? Perhaps. Right. But as long as I create space to have those collisions in a digital way, we found it to be really productive.

I really like that sentence you said, making sure we've got space to have collisions or making sure we've got space to have digital collisions. So we've spoken about, or you've spoken about in particular, having chats. So you've got that informal discussion team huddles. So you're getting together every day which allows you to do some of that ideation and some of that social sharing that's really important as a team to grow together. Videos on. I'm a huge proponent of videos on. In fact, I've gone as far as to say I like filters on backgrounds removed. Within reason. There are times when you people like to have them there because that does that gives you perspective in terms of what's happening around them. So you know that when people are distracted because distractions unfortunately can result in you missing a key message. And the easiest way to solve that is to repeat it. But if you don't know that that message has been missed or you can't use your own level of EQ to determine that message has been missed, then it never gets picked up on down the track. So I really like that. Creating space for the. The collisions to happen. I might borrow that a couple of times, Dan, and I might. I hooked you in.

I probably borrowed it from somebody else, Ben, so you can have it.

There's not very much that's completely unique or new these days, is there? Most things are something borrowed. So yeah. But if we can improve on them and share them with others, then life is good.

I agree.

So last question for you today before we let you go. If you're a sales leader in a business and you're looking to turn the growth tap on this year, what are you doing differently to something you might have perhaps done in the past?

I think it's a really good question. And I think it depends on a lot of different factors. Okay. So if I'm a B2B sales leader, what we've found that's been working quite a bit is thought leadership and content creation. Right. So historically, we were a small business, right. And growing. I was always so focused on roi. What is the ROI of this specific activity? And my head of marketing was always preaching to me, awareness, awareness, awareness. I'm like, I can't calculate the ROI and awareness. It's really hard, right? And we were smaller and we had less cash to deploy and less resources. Right. But she was right, okay? And we've seen that happen. By creating awareness through content creation, whether that's through LinkedIn or through YouTube or talking to guys like you on a podcast, it's creating certainly awareness where there's visibility always. Okay. And whether or not you're engaging with what I'm saying or where my posts or whatever, you still see it. And we have evidence of that all the time, right? We have people in our sales pipeline that we know that we have a good relationship with. And maybe the sales cycle is 12 months long. And what I've seen happen more often than not is those individuals, although not engaging with posts on LinkedIn or not liking and. Or sharing or commenting, they still see it. They still see it and they tell us they see it. So it can create a lot of impact. So I would lean into content creation. I think the traditional kind of internal sales model of just picking up the phone and dialing for dollars. I'm not saying that's dead, but I think it needs to be thought of differently. And then for my clients, or just for straight up sales growth, you can always look at channel expansion. Okay. We Talked earlier about TikTok. Okay. Perhaps that is a way you grow. I've seen a lot recently around collaboration, right. Where brands aligning themselves with other brands and or thought leaders or companies is creating a lot more traffic and visibility. One I've been watching a lot lately is this company called Malbon. It was. Or Malbon or Malbon. They make golf apparel and they're doing all these really cool collaborations with F1 or with Adidas or Nike or sponsoring professional golfers at this point. Okay, I've not heard of those guys 12 months ago, but now I see them everywhere. And it's because of the collaborations that they're doing. And one of the things that we've done recently that's fairly new to us is saying, you know what, there is a market dynamic right now that is interesting for Creating growth in inorganic way. Okay, so valuations right now are low, market caps are low. There's some good assets out there that are available and perhaps going down the acquisition path is the way to grow, given the market dynamic, the market conditions. And so we've taken that over the last 12 months and have chosen to grow inorganically in a lot of way and are able to scoop up some really good companies and or assets and leverage our balance sheet in a positive way. So those are ways I would consider growing.

Really like the piece around creating content, the numbers are just so clear. Seven out of 10 salespeople today are using social content as a strategy for growth. Of those seven out of 10, eight out of 10 of them are outperforming those who are not using social content as an avenue for growth. Right. So the numbers are clear. Most people are doing it and most people that are doing it are getting better results than those that are. The second piece I like there around growth is that when we're using social content, for example, to grow, we can build our own audience or we can leverage the audience of others. And when you talk about partnerships with key brands, that's really what we're looking at here is how you leverage each other's audience. And the same thing comes down to acquisitions, right, how you're bringing an audience in to be able to market to. So there's lots of different ways for fast revenue growth, but I think we've really tapped on there about getting your brand out to a broader audience. Right. To bring in new customers as a key piece of advice that you have. Fantastic way to do it sometimes gets expensive, but when you get it right is the fastest way, right. To grow your brand. So I love it. Thank you. What I really like from today is taking an emerging market like the E commerce space. I still think it's emerging. It's not yet mature. It is, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love taking that and seeing how we can apply it to the rest of what we do as leaders in other industries. So thank you, Dan, for your time today. I really appreciate it. For everyone listening, particularly those in the E commerce space, worth checking out, channel key worth following. Dan. Dan Brownshire. Where else can people find you, Dan? What's the easiest way to get in contact?

LinkedIn is fantastic. So look me up on LinkedIn. We put a lot of LinkedIn content out. You can find us on YouTube. So you can search me, Dan Brownshire, our channel key on YouTube or go to our website, www.channelkey.com. we get a large amount of content we put out from a blog perspective. So those are the three easiest ways.

Excellent. Fantastic. Well, thank you, Dan. I enjoyed it today. It was a challenging podcast recording. We had a few technical issues there and those who obviously can't see us. We've had lighting issues, we've had Internet connectivity issues, and we've had some audio issues. But we have soldiered on and got there. So thank you very much, Dan, and for everyone listening, please keep living in a world of possibility because you'll be amazed by what you can achieve. Want to be kept up to date with any of our free materials to help you build the best sales teams possible? Well, the easiest way you can do so is to follow us on your favorite social media channel. We're stronger sales teams on most of them and if you DM us stronger, we'll send you right back some great resources to help you build your super powered sales team. If you'd like a little more help, please get in touch directly and book a free discovery call with me. I run a limited number of these sessions and they're free for my podcast listeners. I'd love to help you out. Until then, see you next week for another podcast of stronger sales team.