Episode 62: How Building Your Brand Can Close More Deals with Kady O Connell

Hi everyone, I'm Ben Wright, successful entrepreneur, corporate leader and expert sales coach to some of the most talented people our amazing planet has to offer. You're listening to the Stronger Sales Team podcast where we bring together and simplify the complex world of B2B sales management to help the millions of sales managers worldwide build, motivate and keep together highly effective sales teams. Teams who grow revenue and make their businesses actual profits. Along the journey. We also provide great insights and actionable steps to managing your personal health. A happy and productive year is not only better for your teams, but everyone around you. So if you're an ambitious sales leader who wants to build the highest performing and engaged teams, stronger sales teams is right where you need to be. Welcome back to Stronger Sales Teams, the place where we provide real world and practical advice to help you develop superpowered sales teams. Today we have a very special guest. I'd like to say all the way from Ireland, but in fact it's all the way from the Sunshine coast, which happens to be very close to where I am living right now. Her name is Katie o'. Connell. So Katie has over a decade in the creative industry. Time like that in an industry that moves so quickly is something to be really celebrated because during that time Katie's actually been able to build her own branding agency which is called Katie Creative and that really focuses on SMEs and entrepreneurial businesses build their thriving online brands, which is so topical now for sales teams, for marketing teams and in fact anyone in the business world. So, so Katie, at her level, she fundamentally believes that the best brands don't really have to sell. And I think that's Katie, because they connect so deeply with the audience that they become magnets in their own outright way. So proof in the pudding, Katie's helped, I would say, 100 odd businesses build their branding and their business intentionally over those last ten years or so. She's an author, a best selling author in fact, and regularly does live training and speaking to help educate entrepreneurs. So, Katie, firstly, thank you for jumping on board. Great to have you here.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Ben. I'm excited to jump in.

Excellent. Well, please tell me more about Katie Creative. What is the business and why are you so successful?

Yeah, sure, thank you. So basically the business, we're a branding and social media agency and it started very organically. So we started doing, you know, I've always been fascinated with design and with branding and working with small businesses, like just hearing their stories and so often we would just come across these brands that had these amazing products or services, but they just did not know how to position themselves. And they weren't just putting themselves in their best light and packaging themselves in the best way that people didn't really get what they did or, you know, they just didn't really see the value of it. And to me, it was so obvious, you know what I mean? Just like, oh, you just need to tweak this. You just need to say this. Like, it was so glaringly obvious. But I guess for people within their businesses, they're like, it's hard to see the grass from the trees. Like, you're so used to yourself and your own business that you don't really know how to even describe it to other people. That makes sense and that's appealing. And so I guess my business has kind of built from there. You know, any service that we've added on has been always with that in mind to just like really help business owners establish themselves, be seen as experts in their field, kind of become that go to brand. And yeah, I guess the reason probably just for our growth and any success we've had has just been having that real like customer centric approach and always wanting to provide value and adapt with the times and whatever, working to actually build up brand rather than being set in like, oh, we only focus on Facebook or, you know what I mean? Like, it's just about more about getting that outcome.

I would have to say I have seen you in action personally, obviously at a professional level, and some of the stuff that your business is doing is sensational. We could probably talk about a whole lot of things around what your business does, but today we're gonna focus on branding. And normally when I say that word, particularly as a sales leader, I start to think about things like designing a logo, sales collateral, and really putting your visible brand out to the market. But today, what we actually want to talk about is how investing in your brand can lead to you closing more sales. So, sales leaders, cue excited happy dance. This is something that for us, in a market like sales, where we can get some great support at a branding level and even influence that ourselves can make all the difference to our teams. So let's start around what branding means to you, Katie. What do you see as the fundamental drivers around building a great brand?

So I think with branding, it's about the kind of the emotion that someone feels when they interact with your brand. So it's not necessarily about the tangibles. Is it a logo? Is it a message? Is it this or that? It's more about how people feel when they actually interact with your brand. And that could be through a whole multitude of things. So brands, to me, they're not one dimensional. It's like a person, it's like what draws you. If you meet someone that that's like a really charming, captivating person. Why is that? And sometimes with some person, it could be their looks, with another person, it could be their personality. With another person, it could be that they just have these crazy background and history and stories. So it's not even the same with every brand. But it's the kind of combination, and that's what makes brands so unique as well, is that they all have a different kind of combination of elements that makes them original. And so it's really how people perceive your brand and how they feel when they interact with it.

So that certainly can resonate at a sales level, leader level, because we are building personal brands consistently and then at the field level, we're doing it even more frequently. So you've chosen rather than to spend time around building logos and collateral and some of that very consistent and traditional ways of building a brand, to instead focus around how building your brand can close more sales, which I love. That direct link between branding and sales is music to my ears. So for you, when you're doing that, what do your type of activities look like to focus more around building sales or delivering sales than those traditional branding activities?

Yeah, so to me, I mean, I still love obviously visual branding and you know, as a kind of designer and as a creative, I'm so drawn to visual and aesthetic things. But I also, there's another part of me that's like very data driven and I love systems, I love kind of goal setting, I love, you know, measuring outcomes. And so for me, I kind of wanted to take branding and make that more tangible in terms of, like, how is that going to get us towards our goals. And so I think that's what the beauty of branding is. It can really help build your business and build towards those goals. It's not just like a nice to have like a pretty logo or, you know, messaging that you read once and you pack it away in a drawer, never to be seen again. Like, you know, brand strategy. But it's really about like tying that and linking that to your brand. And so, yeah, so I just love having that tangible element to it because I mean, at the end of the day, all business owners, they want to get an outcome, right? They want to increase revenue, they want to build their team, they want to, you know, have like a presence in the marketplace. They're all goals that they would have. So it's like, how can you align your branding to help establish that? And, you know, customers are savvy. There's so many brands and versions of products and services and everything like that. And what is going to make someone use you versus someone else, you know? And price, yes, this price can be a factor, but it's not always a huge factor. Like, people are more drawn by their emotions, usually. And also, anyone can compete on price, so it's really that differentiating. So what is it that's going to differentiate you and that's going to actually help you get towards your goals? And branding really comes into that because it's the story that you tell and it's how you actually attract your customers, and it's what makes people choose you versus someone else, you know, and oftentimes the service is the exact same, pretty much, or the product is pretty much the exact same. But it's the story around that that people are so drawn to. And it's like what that means to be, you know, for example, look at denim. Like, there's a million brands selling denim, you know, so why can, you know, the likes of, I don't know, Dolce and Gabbana charge, like, hundreds and thousands of dollars for denim versus you can just buy denim in Target. You know, it's essentially the same thing. Yes, the design might be a little bit different, but people are buying into the brand name and what that means to be wearing that designer label or what that means about them to be actually using that brand or be associated or affiliated with that brand. And unless you have that kind of powerful story and message and look and feel, then you're not giving people to really, like, grab onto, you know, if you're just basing your business around the product or the service, there's nothing to really get behind.

Okay, so storytelling, something we talk about consistently on this podcast. You don't have to be a great storyteller, but everyone has a story to tell, something that I wholeheartedly believe in, and we can work definitely on that. We've spoken about personal branding, where you're understanding what your personal brand levers are, whether it's your presence, whether it's how you interact with people, whether it's your ability to build relationships quickly. There's lots of great initiatives we can do at a personal level, at a broader team branding level, whether it be sales team or marketing team or business team. What are some of those quantifiable steps you spoke about tangible, I think was the word you said. What are some of those tangible activities you can do to be really driving your brand that helps deliver sales for your team?

Yeah, I think a lot of it, especially with sales teams, is really about developing the people within your team and developing their personal brands within the team as well. So ensuring that they're also present on social media, that they've got their posting online, they've got a really good presence. So it kind of starts with the business brand and really understanding what is your point of difference, what is it that makes you unique in the market and then having a visual brand that goes along with that, so everything looks good, consistent. So it starts there at the kind of brand level, I would say, like the business brand level. And that's really important because it takes between seven and 20 interactions with the brand for someone to build that know like and trust factor. And so if you have a brand that you know, if one employee is using, you know, one color and another employee is using another color and they've got different, slightly, the messaging is slightly different and things like that, you're not building this recognizable brand that you see and you hear over and over again. It's like if you're driving down the street and you see those yellow arches from McDonald's, you know there's a McDonald's coming up, you recognize it in two seconds. And so you want to think the same way with your brand. It needs to be a message and a visual brand that's like recognized in two seconds. And then you want to make sure that your entire team is rolling that out. So I think that is the first step that you need to have. Because if you're not equipping your team with those resources, then how can you expect to build a brand that's going to be recognized? So the first thing you need to do is actually have the business branding done really well. And for it to be really appealing to your audience, something that really resonates with them, and ensure that you've got that down pattern that you've given that access to your employees. So that's step one. And you can't expect them to do that for you. You need to do that and provide it to the team. And then step two. And another thing to note is that like with your branding as well, you should really be hiring based on your brand values. So, like, part of branding is figuring out who you are, what you represent, what makes you different, and what your values are. And so anyone that you hire should really be, you know, Living those values and living those principles. So already you should have people that are already great representatives of your brand. But then as an extension of that, you know, we see it's really powerful when businesses really support their team by helping, giving them support, worked in building their own personal brand through the business. And before people would be scared to do that because they'd be like, what if the employee leaves? And things like that. But that's just not a good way of thinking about it. It's like they're there with you right now. You can't really think about what if in five years they leave. Right now they're with you, they're building your brand and you should really be equipping them to do that because people trust people and people buy from people. And so you want to have people that are building their own personal brands, getting that reach within their personal networks. And because they're using, using your messaging and using your visual brand that you've created, it's just only going to serve you and make your brand look bigger and look like, you know, it's being seen everywhere because you've got like this army of supporters that are out there kind of sharing the message for you.

A few things to unpack there. I'm going to give that a go. So step one, get active. So if you're building your personal brand and you're not doing so by aligning with the business brand, then you're missing an opportunity. And so when we talk about getting active, 72% of salespeople today use social media. And of those 72%, 8 out of 10 of them perform better than those who don't. So that's about 60% of the global salesforce are using social media and performing better than those who don't. So first one's getting active. The second part to unpack there though is that with brand interactions, quite high, certainly compared to pre Covid. Pre Covid, the average number of interactions at a sales level to close out deals was 5 to 6. We work off 11 to 13 from a big research project that we did about 12 months ago. Now you've said, I think 11 to 20. We're in the same ballpark. The reality there is that it's highly unlikely you will get at an individual level. Those 11 to 13 or 11 to 20 brand interactions completed yourself. So by aligning with what your business is doing, by using the brand, by using the right colors, by making sure that when people are recognizing or interacting with the brand at a personal or business level, they're saying the same thing. And they're building those connections and those pathways that they need to build trust and association and then move forward and work with that business. There needs to be a level of consistency. So I think that's through Step one of what you said is around getting active and doing it in a consistent way with what the business branding asks you to do. Step number two as a sales leader is to be hiring the right people for your brand into your business. I really like that it is so important in so many ways. But it's rarely we think about it at a branding level or a mission and values level when it comes to bringing to life the company brand. Because if people are going to go rogue and go on their own journeys, then that's going to be really hard to get that brand journey completed, that piece there. And then the third part, of course, was around at a business level, how you are supporting, or perhaps we call this part 2B, how you are supporting your team members to enable them to get active on social media. Because without that support, it gets difficult. I know I run a podcast, I do a lot of social media work and I have to invest time into content. If I had a team, I would need to be setting them up with some significant structures to help them do that. And that often gets in the way of branding. So really impactful. Some of those recommendations around how you can build a brand that does lead to converting to sales. Katie so if you were right now recommending to a sales leader, put yourselves in those shoes and you had to give them three tips or five tips as to what they could start looking at now to building a brand that is going to help them close more sales. Where would you recommend they spend their time?

I think making sure that like the directors of the company or if they have, you know, all in that there is being budget or time invested into building that core company brand. Because it's like, you know, say if someone just calls you up out of the blue and they say, I want to do a partnership, I've got an energy drink company, we'd love to do a partnership with you, versus if someone calls up and says, hey, I'm with Red Bull, we're looking to partnerships. Can we have a chat? Whose call are you going to prefer taking? You know what I mean? Like, obviously red Bulk, they've got a cool brand and, you know, it's recognizable and things like that. So that's going to help your sales team no matter what. Like getting on a phone with anyone, if they can say hey, I'm from X and like, X is a cool company that people have heard of a million times easier to get that call. So I think that's one thing to definitely, you know, try and establish. And then the second thing is to do to build, you know, the individual brands that. Because again, if you have seen, it's like celebrities, you know, we all love reality tv, we all love following celebrities. And there's something called a mere exposure effect, which is a psychological thing where people basically have more kind of trust in people that they see regularly and that they're getting exposed to. They trust them because they see them and they become kind of known, even if they've never had a conversation. So that's why I say to people as well, like, say they're posting on LinkedIn and they're not. They're finding. I feel like I'm not even getting enough traction. No one comments, etc. I always say, like, yes, great work on getting more comments. Like, that's all good to work towards. But just know that there are so many lurkers out there and they're still, they're seeing the content that you put out. So even if you know it's not necessarily getting comments, it's still doing a lot of really good value for your brand because people are watching, they are seeing it. And again, if you're trying to get on a call with someone and they've seen. Seen you from you developing your personal brand as well, they've seen you, it's going to be so much easier to not only get them on a call, but also for them to be more present on the call and more like, oh, like they already know a bit about you. They already know a bit about what you're doing. So they're already a little bit more invested, which not only makes it easier to get them on the call, but it also makes it so much easier to actually convert that call and to kind of progress that call because you've already kind of got that base level of trust is already established.

Absolutely. I think this might be one of the only times we can use the word lurker in a positive frame, because normally we hear that word and we're, whoa. We don't know anything to do with it. But definitely the lurkers on your social media profiles are some of the most powerful future customers that you can build. Great. Okay, so there's a business level here around investing in a brand, and there's some recommendations at an individual level to be investing time into building your own personal brand and focusing on not just building likes, but also repetition, consistency, and being seen. Because I absolutely agree that the more time you spend or see with someone. And I've just got off a call before we recorded this podcast and when the phone answered it was, hi, Ben, I've just spent an hour listening to you on podcast and now I've got a 10 minute phone call with you. So we had momentum in that phone call before we'd even started due to the podcast that he'd listened to previously. So. And also, I mean, little bit chuffed right, when you hear people following you, but the important part is to be consistent here. So last question, Katie, before we let you go today, if you were a sales leader, so put yourself in their shoes right now and you were gearing for growth over the next 12 months in your area of expertise, where would you encourage that sales leader to start focusing their attention?

So I would recommend that they would focus on just doubling down on whatever is working. So, so many times we come across clients that are trying to like, get their TikTok account going. They want to send email newsletters, they want to, you know, improve their Instagram, they want to send cold outreach DMs, all to help their sales process and all they're doing is spreading themselves too thin. So I would just take a few minutes to do an audit of where you are right now and look at everything you're doing. Are you posting on LinkedIn? Are you doing cold outreach? Are you doing, you know, an email sequence for all of the leads that you're speaking with? And on a spreadsheet or whatever you want to do it, but really do a deep dive into what is getting you tangible outcomes, all of the sales or the biggest deals you've closed in the past quarter year, whatever it may be, where do they come from and what is actually working for you right now? And double down on that because so many people don't even do that. And how can you have insights unless you know what is working? And then I would just go all in. So if it's a LinkedIn, you're getting a lot of people messaging you on LinkedIn or whatever it is, then I would literally scrap everything else and just double down on LinkedIn and really try and catapult that for success, because you need to focus in order to, you know, succeed. And then you can always add in other things once you've really nailed the first thing. But I would recommend for, for fast growth, it's all about focus.

We talk a lot about the limitation of silver bullets being there to really help change a business. In fact, I'll often talk about lots and lots of silver pellets that will make up that silver bullet. But that one is very close to a silver bullet because if we can determine at a lead generation or program delivery level what's really working and then we can get out to more of those customers. So a higher concentration of our ideal customers in the way that's working for us. Wow, that is so powerful because we don't actually have to do anything new and we can just capitalise on that momentum. Fantastic way to finish today, Katie. I really like that last silver bullet if you like. So please everyone listening take note of that and see what you can do to impact that piece of advice in your business. Please also have a look at Katie Creative Katie. Where can people find you? What's the best place to get in touch?

Yes, so our website is Kady Creative K a D y Creative. Same on Instagram and LinkedIn and then personally on LinkedIn. It's Katie O'. Connell.

Excellent. Well, thank you for today Katie. Really enjoyed talking and I hope that those listening have taken some tangible outcomes that they can roll into their business. But until next time, please keep living in a world of possibility and you'll be amazed by what you can achieve.

Thanks. Be.

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