Episode 74: AI Can Exist in Our Sales Operations Without Losing Personalisation, with Gabe Lullo

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Right where you need to be. Welcome back to Stronger Sales Teams, the place where we provide real world and practical advice to help you develop super powered sales teams Today, very special guest, Gabe Lulo, who I will say from the outset has the coolest podcast background that I've had of anyone we've had on the show. For those who can see it or watching on YouTube, I think you'll get the message when you look at it. For those who aren't picture American, I'd say almost North American, but Gabe's actually upstate New York, but very much that nice rugged type of background behind him. He's got a big world map in a nice bit of wood with some dark and light tones on there. Australia is sitting in the bottom right hand corner there, perfectly placed. He's got the plants coming in from the side and it just looks like one of the most relaxing home offices you could ever work from. So hopefully that is a sign of how relaxed Gabe is once we get into it. But before I do pass over to you, Gabe, your expertise, for those that are listening, is very much in sales, marketing, recruiting and management. So it's that all round ability which is translated into you becoming CEO of Alley oop. But before that you had your own business, which you went into, I think straight after graduation, which you had to do everything, sales training, marketing. And it was very much a decade long experience for you from what I understand. But really where your skills lay through that business was training sales and marketing professionals. And I think that's probably where we see you've ended up today, where it's as CEO of Alleyu, as I mentioned before. So at Ellie, you've been working for many years around building and growing the company by focusing on your culture, your environment. We spoke quite a lot around sales before we actually got into our podcast today. And of course customer Success. So, Gabe, with the coolest podcast background ever, welcome to the Stronger Sales Teams podcast.

Thank you, Ben. You know, I'm a huge fan of yours and I love your background, by the way. You know, I feel like I need to go surfing this weekend now because of it, but awesome to be here. Huge fan and excited to dig into it.

Excellent. Well, my now dormant surfboard is definitely sitting there because I'm not getting out enough, but I need to when the rain stops here. Okay, so today we are talking about how we can integrate AI into sales without losing the personal connection. This is probably our fifth or sixth episode out of 80 or so where we focused around AI. So that kind of 5% mark, and.

I think AI deserves that because it.

Is making such a significant impact on our lives as salespeople now. But I think more importantly, with a future lens, we're really seeing that we need to grow, particularly as leaders and understand what's coming with AI to be able to capitalize on it. So before we get into that, can you please tell us about Alley oop, why it's successful and what you do?

Yeah, I mean, you told a little bit my story. You know, I came out of college with a business degree and started a company in staffing and recruitment. So that's where I lived. I have, you know, vast background in recruitment and staffing from all different types of roles. The company Alley OOP was founded by two brothers. I'm not a co founder. It was started really as a sales training agency and it was running successfully, doing that for five years. And that actually where I met the founders at that point. So it was about a decade ago when I joined forces and we really saw the sales development rep or SDR role start being created. We attracted new companies like ZoomInfo, which now is a massive player. When we met them, you know, we were their SDR agency. Other companies like Salesloft and Outreach, which we all know today, you know, used us to start their SDR team. So my recruitment background and our founders training and sales function really came together and that's where we started our, you know, run on the sales development space. So what Ali does is we're a sales development agency. Companies from large enterprises, you know, we have an active campaign with Peloton right now all the way to two guys and an idea. We can serve all of them as long as there's a inbound or outbound motion in their sales cycle. We come in and we provide enabled SDRs fully managed to drive top of funnel or new growth for Sales teams.

Excellent. So when we talk about some of those names, zoom info particular, these are places that excel at getting their customers in front of new customers and you guys were there training them when they were building their business. So I think in terms of street credibility, we were talking about how the podcast is a really important piece of my business where people go to learn about me and understand what I do. In terms of street cred for yourselves and proof of concept, I think that's pretty strong. So for those listening the next 20 minutes or so, Gabe's going to be one to worth really tuning into his opinions around what's ahead with AI. So AI, it's still a buzzword in my opinion. There's a lot of talk about it. I don't think it's always impacting to the level that people talk about that. It could be certainly inconsistent in terms of its application across industries. But we've had a number of people talk about AI. But to you personally, what does AI mean from an opportunity lens when it comes to sales leaders?

Yeah, it's interesting. I think it was exactly this time last year where I really got a lot of traction when it became a buzzword. I think, you know, especially in the sales development space and a lot of people were forecasting, hey, by this time next year there'll be no more SDRs. AI is going to replace all sales. I heard that same scenario about 10, 12 years ago when marketing automation was invented.

Right.

Pardot and Marketo came out and they said, oh wow, you know, sequencing and email automation is going to replace the sales rep. And everyone fired all their SDRs, invested in market automation and then two years later hired all their SDRs back. But it's interesting, the market automation piece of that is very much involved in our day to day, every day, as well as every SDR's day to day. And it is a piece of the outbound tool, you know, set. Now I'm not saying, you know, AI isn't more advanced than that very much is, but we are seeing now around this time where it's kind of creating its own lanes at this point, like you mentioned, you know, I don't think it's going to completely replace the SDR function in the next six months. I don't have a Magic 8 ball. I do think I have a lot of companies coming to us we're working with in the lab right now that are putting together some amazing stuff and it's, it's amazing to see and I do feel that there's going to be A huge advancement there, but we have a lot of clients that are using our services to build their AI businesses. So it's not fully replaced things yet, but it is definitely augmented and it's created some amazing co pilots or benefits to the SDR's arsenal today that we're using and we're seeing a lot of great results with it.

I like that phrase co piloting to SDRs. I think if I was to sum up AI, that is exactly the same terminology I would use. So from an opportunity point of view, in terms of co piloting with sales development representatives, so outbound sales focused people, or even with the other account execs, where do you see the opportunities lying for that co piloting opportunity now?

I think the biggest immediate application in the copilot function is that of research. You know, account executives can go into a call and spend a lot less time researching what you need to know to be prepared to articulate that message on point and hyper personalized in demos. From an appointment setting standpoint, same thing. It allows SDRs to know more about who they're talking to and why they're talking to it. It allows companies to really hone in on that ICP and that Persona of who they're targeting and see if you know, a product market fit makes sense by not having to spend so much time figuring that out because they're researching it using AI. So AI is definitely allowing our teams to know a lot more before we go into a human to human conversation. Fully prepared.

Yeah, super impactful. Herb Cohen, I don't know if you've ever read any of his books around negotiation. He talks around one of the three pillars of being able to effectively control a negotiation, if you like, is knowledge. And I think what you're tapping into there is that knowledge is power. And the more we can learn about our prospects or our customers, the more we can tailor a solution that is going to provide better outcomes for them. Features and benefits are great, but we're here in a world to be creating outcomes. If you can't do that in the modern world, you're out in my opinion. So that knowledge piece, by using AI to shorten the amount of time you need to invest, which allows you to get to more prospects with more knowledge. Love it. Amazing way. Best type of tools you're seeing being used to help you shorten that knowledge curve of a client.

Yeah, and there's a bunch, I mean Reggie, AI right now is a great building platform of building playbooks that allows AI to actually automate and research the Persona and write messaging across the entire playbook for sales development reps. You know, we're using right now AI in the form of dialing technology. So they're actually knowing who to call, when to call, what time zones to call them in. What's the pattern of when they typically pick up the phone? Do they pick up the phone? So we're actually using AI, not in just the research piece of it, but in the, you know, predictive analytics of when the best time to connect with that. It is a form of research for sure, but a more applied way of knowing who to talk to and when to talk to them. We're using that technology. We're using a company called Aurum right now, which is an AI smart dialer, a predictive analytics dialer that allows you to really attack a lot of prospects. So volume is there, but you're not sacrificing quality at the same time.

Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. Two nice tools, Reggie and Aurum, I think you mentioned. Okay, let's look at the flip side. I think it's important to have a look at both sides of what's happening with AI sales leaders. What are the drawbacks for them around AI at the moment? What do you think they need to be careful of?

Well, I mean, there's going to be a lot of regulations. I know every country is going to be a little different. You know, they're in the US here. There's a lot of issues that they're going to come across depending on, you know, what you're selling and who you're calling and what you're talking to them about. So if you don't figure that out, you could get a newer world of heat. I think there's going to be a lot of regulations coming out with, you know, do not call us and what is a legitimate phone call versus not. So that is, of course, a huge red flag that AI companies I know are trying to figure out how to deal with. And then on the human approach, I mean, the big thing that we have not seen yet, no matter how good it has shown to us recently, is that empathy. Right. You know, a lot of people I know about me, if I, if I'm calling my credit card company, I'm. I'm hitting 000 until I talk to somebody. Not everyone's like that. But, you know, and I see AI doing a huge impact in customer service or tier one support. But if you're getting into those bigger deals and there's more detailed and more layered sales processes, AI has an issue there, right now and that' you know, we specialize in. So that's why we don't use it fully and that's why we use it as a copilot. To your point.

Yeah. Excellent. Well, let's zero in on that personalization piece because I think that for me is what I see as the biggest challenge around AI, because the best salespeople I have worked with in medium to high value transactions, I'll certainly say that the high volume, low value, a little bit different. But in the medium to high value transactions, the best salespeople are excellent at building relationships. So how are you seeing sales leaders effectively navigate around the personalization issues that can come with using AI?

Yeah, I mean, right now you and I had a great conversation. You've done some research on me before we even got on this call. I've done research on you, listen to podcasts, you know, I didn't come into this call with you right now not knowing anything about you. You didn't know anything about me. Of course we did our own research. That's the type of thing that you have to do when it comes to selling to anyone that you're going to be having a conversation with. No different than us having a conversation today. So AI again is a great tool to hyper specialize the research so you can go ahead and know exactly who these people are you're talking to and why you're talking to them and what their pain points are. But at the other side of the coin is that, you know, you have to know how to deal with people. You have to know why people buy. You have to know what's going on in the market. To your point, knowledge is power and applying that knowledge is the real power. And you have to personalize that. You know, I had a conversation the other day with somebody, it was a call and never met the person. And they reached out to me and this person was great on the phone and they said, hey, you know, I noticed you, you know, live in Buffalo. And they, and they brought it up and, and we knew the same people and this person was calling across the world. So those small world situations, you know, no matter how smart AI is, they're not going to know those nuances there. And that that's important.

Okay, so when we're using AI, so what I'm hearing is that we need to make sure that we're using AI to assist our process, but we are still nowhere near that point where we can say AI will take over our sales process.

I don't think it's there yet it's not about is it smart enough to do it. It's about are people going to trust it. I think the biggest problem right now with AI fully is that the trust factor isn't there. And for some reason people just trust talking to another human. And if they are not talking to one, you have to let them know ahead of time that it's AI. I have to deal with some of these companies that they're trying to do it and not tell you. And then once you find out it is, then all trust is lost. So you have to let them know up front, hey, this is an AI call or say some sort of disclaimer. And I feel like right now people are just not ready to accept it fully from a trusting situation even when it does get there.

Yeah, it's that whole concept of people do something even on a small scale that you find deceitful. Then it's very, very hard to build that emotional bank back up.

Totally smoke and mirrors.

Right?

It's the same thing. So I know some companies are trying to do it that way. I don't think they'll have success. The ones that are upfront about it, I think, you know, people are more intrigued to find out, hey, let me have this conversation because I just want to hear how it sounds and see how good it is. But when it comes down to pen on paper and you know, engaging with a long term contract and these large B2B contracts, to me I just don't think it's as trustworthy as it needs to be. It's almost a version of, you know, product led growth. Right. It's, you know, more of those transactional type products versus a bigger, larger ACV or annual contract value.

Yeah, agree, absolutely. Well, we talk about, we briefly spoke about whether or not AI is ready to take over that stro. I had someone on the podcast, Eric Van Ekelen, incredible mind. He has so much experience in AI, in fact, he has a master's in AI. So there you go. And, and I think when he started his master's in AI, it certainly wasn't anywhere near the scope of what it is now. So he's come along that journey with it and he' big hairy audacious claim was that AI will be ready to take over the roles of phone based selling within 12 months. So that was about, about six weeks ago. So we're well into that year. 11 months to go. What's your views on AI taking over the STR role in 12 months time for phone based selling?

I think he's right. I mean, I think it's definitely advancing and I think there is huge strides right now. And I've seen some things and we're working with some companies right now where they're using our recorded calls to create amazing AI SDRs. But I do think once the conversation gets a little bit more nuanced and a little bit more tactical, even though AI will be smart enough to probably articulate those, I think that phone SDR is going to really live in more of a qualification and determining if it's, you know, a couple qualification calls and then parlays into a live call once qualified. The way the SDR role is looking today though, it's not really designed for kids coming out of college and never made a cold call before. You know, we don't hire actually anyone for our company that's not been an SDR for at least a year and a half before they're even interviewed. So that SDR role is becoming really more down the funnel of a more expert sdr and there's a room there too. But I believe if AI does come out to your point, that there still is room for those human conversations, but it will be a tool like market automation would be a tool to kind of vet out or pre qualify or finding pickup rates or surveying people to get information for free that people be willing to have those conversations and then turn them into more human conversations once it makes sense and not to waste time.

I really like that perspective actually, and something I think we spoke about earlier, in fact, I can't even remember if it was on air or off air, but we spoke About Marketing Automation 10 years ago Looking to potentially take over and how it's now taken over a position or a percentage of the process, but not the whole process. But certainly if AI is doing some of that pre qualification work for you and bringing a prospect to a stage where personalization becomes important, where nuances become important, then all of a sudden I think that seems to me as really plausible we can shorten that cycle when human interventions needed, which means our cost stack comes down and the value we're creating obviously can be accretive from there. So really, really like that approach. Okay, so Gabe, before we let you go today, it's a question I love to ask sales leaders around the globe. If you were a sales leader right now in a business looking to turn that growth tap on this year, the challenges of the sales leaders I work with has gone from getting the best out of people to really growing the business through the generation of leads. And future prospects. If you were that sales leader now looking to really rapidly grow your business, where would you focus your attention when it comes to a lead generation activity?

Yeah, it would be a two pronged approach. You know, right now we're dealing with companies. I actually have two companies right now. They're direct competitors. Okay. And we are booking 20 meetings a month for one client and then booking 20 meetings a month for another client. So we're doing the same actions to the same prospects and we're getting the same results from an outbound perspective. However, client A, they have an 85% show up rate to those meetings and client B has about a 15% show up rate to those meetings. And client A closing revenue and having backflips of success. Client B, again, not again. Direct competitors. There's no difference in product and there's no difference in prospecting and there's no difference in what we're doing. But the big thing is the SDRs that were reaching out are using a lot of content. So there's a lot of content that's being created. There's thought leaders involved in the company. There's podcasts being posted, there's blogs being written. The AES are fully prepared and they're doing research and using AI tools and they're fully enabled from a marketing standpoint as well as a sales standpoint versus the other client. So, you know, we believe in obviously outbound and setting appointments. But even if you do that, it doesn't mean that it's going to work. You have to enable those SDRs. These rep that are being prospecting right now are having the best technology, having the best data, having the best tools. So you know, anyone could hire someone who wants to cold call. That's easy part. It's challenging, not gonna lie. But that's just half the battle. The better you are at enabling them and rev ops and pumping them with a lot of content to support those conversations they're having is what's going to differentiate winning versus.in my opinion.

Wow. So what we're actually talking about here is bringing the customer in to the inner sanctum of the business earlier. So that storytelling journey that piece around really trying to help the customer along their educational journey, starting before you even meet versus waiting until you get that first show. Love it. And in fact, Gabe, it's something I spend huge amounts of time on with my customers is getting customers to choose you before you even meet them. And I think that's a really lovely way, a lovely way to end today. So, Gabe, thank you very much. So, Gabe Lullo from Alleyoop, CEO of Alleyloop. Where else can our listeners find you if they'd like to get in touch?

LinkedIn. I'm hyper responsive, hyperactive on LinkedIn myself. I post six times a week. My company, we post across all of our leaders over 20 times a week. So you need to connect, need to chat, or want to get some input on what we're saying. LinkedIn would be the best way to do it.

Excellent. Well, thank you very much for your time today, Gabe. Very grateful. I'm stoked that Australia is very prominent on that map behind you and hopefully we get to talk again. But for everyone listening now, please keep living in a world of possibility and you'll be amazed by what you can achieve. Bye for now.

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