Revolutionizing Trade Payments with Jim Kolchin from iWallet

So what core pain points is iWallet trying to solve specifically for trade business?

And so there was no easy way to deposit checks and that's how we started.

I love the tap to pay. So you guys use tap to pay with iWallet.

That's right. And so this is one of the reasons why technicians love iWallet is because it makes it so much easier and it actually is a peace of mind for consumers, for customers as well.

Welcome to the Home Service Hacks Podcast, the show for for contractors who refuse to settle for average. Hosted by Bill Brown, licensed H Vac contractor, AI and automation expert, and founder of service titan Hacks community. Each episode features real conversations with contractors, tech founders and innovators who are reshaping the trades from AI and automation to pricing, marketing and management. If it's working in the field, you'll hear about it here. Let's get into it.

Jim, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Hi Bill. Thanks for having me.

Awesome. Well, thanks again. So you've spent decades in Appliance and H Vac. Before launching iWallet, can you walk us through your field service roots to founding this cutting edge payment solution?

Yeah, so I started off as a technician, this company, appliance repair company in Canoga Park, California. I worked there for about a year and then I started my own shop and grew that company. You know, Google started at the time, Google AdWords, it was new back then. And then I got my H Vac license and you know, it became an appliance and H Vac company. And I realized the high ticket margins of the H Vac world and that was really exciting. And you have always, when setting up my business, my first business at the time, it was like really difficult to understand. Like, what do you do? What is S corporation? What is llc? What is sole proprietorship? Which one's right for me? Right. And then what's, what's telephone system? How does it work? You know, how do you hire people? And what's this payment system all about? So I naturally, I just called my bank, which happened to be bank of America, and there were partners or they own first data at the time, and they set me up with a processing plan which had like three tiers, non qualified qualified and mid qualified. And of course I was hoping that most of my transactions would fall into the qualified bucket.

Sure.

But they ended up all in the non qualified. And at the end of the year, when I looked at my statement, I was like, what? What? Why am I paying so much money? Because you usually, you Know, you don't really have time to look at it during the year. You only look at it when it's time to pay taxes. Well, it's a nice write off. They'll tell you. Yeah, you know, we're not, we're not operating on write offs. We are operating on profit Now.

I'd rather have the cash without the write off. Right. Yeah, that's right. So you were, you were actually able to read one of those credit card statements. I, whenever I saw them, they were pages long, they looked like a cell phone bill. And I just looked at the number at the bottom and said, wow, thousands and thousands of dollars a month just to swipe a card. So congratulations for being able to read those things.

Well, no, at first, I wasn't able to read it at first and that's all I saw that it's a lot of money and there is nobody to ask about this. Like, can you negotiate this? Like, nobody would explain anything to you. Especially at the time, you know, it was, there was no information about this online, not as much as it is now. And you know, year after year I was struggling with this and, and then I was like, no, there gotta be a better way. So I decided to look into this and, and then I, I've realized that there's this thing called card present and card not present. Right. That's how you qualify yourself to, to better rates, but you have to swipe more. And then it was around 2012, then the mobile became popular. That's when Square started. Around that time.

Yeah, I remember that. That's when I started my H Vac business was 2012. So I got, I got in right at the, when all these companies were launching and Square was probably the first one and they had the, the little dongle you would plug into your phone's headphone. Jack. I remember that.

That's right, that's right. Yeah. And Jack Dorsey has a whole story of the founder of Square. Fascinating story on how they started with that little dongle and, but at the time I didn't know about Square. I didn't know anything about Square. I, I just, I was just researching and, and so my first website was called swipetopayless.com and I thought, okay, I'm going to create a payment startup and I'm going to make it easy for others to sign up and I'm going to save people a bunch of money just because they start swiping. Because usually when you swipe the so called card present, on average, you know, you pay 30 to 50 basis points less in interchange, which really adds up. Right, right. And then I quickly realized that this is not going to work. The payments processing is really difficult to sell. You know, we as merchants that we're too busy, don't really have time. We only look at it once a year. You know, judging by myself or you know, some more professional guys would have a, an accountant or CFO that will look at it once a month or maybe a bit more often. But yeah, I couldn't sell it and so I, I kind of put it on the bad burner and my, my own company was still using it though. And you know that, that was kind of my introduction to the payments world. That's when I started thinking, okay, then there is the, so you can do the cost plus. Right. Interchange plus, which is quite common with more sophisticated guys. Then there is a flat rate pricing, kind of like what square offers. Right. Remember how they rolled out 2, 6 or 2, 8% and then stripe came out with 2.9 plus 30 cents. And then there is the tiered pricing that I fell into when I started. So yeah, those were kind of the things, that's how it all started.

So that first website that you had, what year did you start that? Was that back in 2012?

Yeah, that's around those, those times. Yeah, it was easy to register it on GoDaddy. You know, I just found a, an available domain swipe to payless.com and that's how it all started. Now iWallet, the story of iWallet and how that started it was actually after I sold my fourth company and which was like a knife sharpening company and I, I wanted to create, you know, I still had this idea of creating something in payments and payments is still fascinating. Only this time I knew this is going to be much harder. Payments are much more competitive than people realize. And I thought, well, I have to create something truly unique. You know, it's not going to cut it if I just add a dongle and then. Right.

That is because everyone has that now.

Right.

Very quickly everyone has it.

That's right.

And by the way, I've always hated those dongles because my technicians, they lose them, they break them off. In the iPad they used, they broke a couple of them off. Remember I had one from Chase that you had to charge and the guy and the guys say, well, I lost my charger and then the technicians, they could key in the card. So they would just start keying cards in because they couldn't keep track of their dongles. And, and so every time I looked at my statement. I just saw where I had to keep up on it. Just like another thing. So not a big fan of the dongles in general. And how do you, how do you get around those? Do you still have those today or what do you do with those?

With those, we see that there are a lot of companies that do try to use dongles. So in particular, you know, your channel that you, the customers that read your blog is primarily with those CRM systems. They push customers into buying those dongles. But I would say that 90% of the people we speak with don't use dongles at all because it's such a pain. As you mentioned, technicians just refuse to cooperate. I mean, there are some really big companies that are really strict about this. They fire you, you know, if you, if you don't use a dongle. But most of the business owners understand how difficult it is to hire a good technician, how difficult it is to find a good person. That dongles is not a deal breaker for them.

You have to pick your battles. Right? You know, that's right. And you can only, anytime you, you put a rule in place, you have to hold the technician or the employee accountable for it. So if you have a million rules, then all you're doing all day is, is checking in on that. So, yeah, it's just that that's how it is with the technicians. I, I picked my battles with them. I wanted them to get reviews, do a great job, but I just gave up on, on the dongles. You know, just sell the job, get paid, and we will add in the processing fees to, you know, as our cost of goods. Right. So, you know, iWallet and I first met you at a roofing conference in December. You had a booth there right up, right up front, which is actually great placement for the booth, by the way, and saw your brand and it was very clean. The booth was very clean. And, and I believe, yeah, I met you directly and that's where we started our relationship. So it's been, oh, about seven months now. And, and so with that, you're, you're focusing on the trades. So what core pain points is iWallet trying to solve specifically for trade businesses?

Yeah, so the, the whole idea to help trade businesses came through checks processing, pain point. You know, there are a lot of checks out there, and people, actually, most of the people think that checks are dying. Nobody's writing checks anymore in our day and age. But we see that 30 to 40% of businesses actually get paid by checks. And at least that, that was the case in my business, it was actually more than that because, you know, we like to pass the fee onto a client and we give them a discount if they pay by check or by cash. So more and more people are preferring to pay by, by checks. And so there was no easy way to deposit checks. And that's how we started. We actually looked into it and found a way to deposit checks in an easy way. That's one of the problems with apps out there is that you have to have, you know, two sided checks and you have to endorse it technician. Again, talk about technicians, they don't want that thing. And, and that's why majority of companies actually bring checks into the office.

Because we had to do that for a time, I remember.

Right, right. So what we came up is with an idea of one sided check capture where we can detect the backside and endorse it automatically. And that's what really started this. You know, we looked into, well, what, what other new technologies are there? And then there was the Tap to pay technology that recently came out. Right. So now we can turn any phone into a point of sale device.

And that's, that's awesome. I mean, I, I'm, you know, disappointed when I go to a merchant and they don't have Tap to pay. And I'll look at it, I'll wait for the, you know, the little kiosk to come up and it'll say insert your card or swipe. And if it doesn't show something to tap, I'm like, oh really? I got to get my card out. And you know, this is first world problems by the way. Get your, get your card out, insert the chip, the chip stops working. I love the Tap to pay. So you guys use Tap to pay with iWallet?

That's right. That's right. There are some other companies out there, you know, it's becoming more and more popular, but most of the CRM systems don't support Tap to Pay yet. And so this is one of the reasons why technicians love iWallet is because it makes it so much easier. And it actually is a peace of mind for consumers, for customers as well. They don't have to worry about technicians typing in their card number somewhere in the app. They don't know where it's been written to. And now you can because of Tap to Pay. You can except Apple Pay and Google Pay, which is another technology that's really convenient to modern consumers out there.

Yeah. So you guys are really ahead of the curve with that, especially that CRMs don't have it. You know, I've. It's been six months since I used Service Titan payments after I sold my H Vac company. Does Service Titan have tap to pay yet?

Well, from what I understand, they have a legacy product which is thesis, which is what 90, probably 8% of their customers own right now. And all of the new customers are being onboarded to a new processor called Adyen. I'm not sure if they support that yet. I know they have the technology because Adyen is one of those innovative companies. We use them as well on the back end. But I'm not sure if they offer it to service type customers yet.

So when, when did iWallet officially kick off? When did you guys start?

The company was incorporated in January of 2019. It's actually a longer story here. My idea was to completely disrupt credit card payments at first and my idea was to use QR code payments, kind of like what they use in China and India that require zero hardware and base it on ach since ACH is already subsidized by our tax dollars, ran by a central bank. And ACH at scale is really cheap. It's like less than a penny per transaction. You know, we could somehow make it work. It didn't work out. We tried it at the University of San Francisco with a bunch of students and merchants around usf, unfortunately, how. What my takeaway was that the habit of using credit cards is just way too strong. The product is good. You know, in China and India they went from cash to QR codes. So cash is really cumbersome and difficult to use. But when you already have a good enough technology, it was difficult. Plus ACH inherently is super slow. Merchants are not willing to weigh for days for trans, especially like a coffee shop. Coffee shop needs cash immediately. Sure, right. So it didn't work out. So after a year or about year and a half of trying to get that off the ground, I realized it's not going to work. And then Covid happened and that's where we, when we transitioned to, to the current system, which is about three years old now, you know, with this particular effort. And so what other you. Your question earlier, what other products you, you know, you're doing? And one other product that we launched is reputation management. So we were able to, you know, I started thinking, okay, what, what can we do to make this product better? And you know, getting reviews online. Reputation is extremely important in our day and age.

And a hundred percent. Yeah.

Tying it to payments. It actually aligns the motivation of technicians to the Motivation of the business owners. I'll tell you, I'll tell you how. So in our app we rolled out tips. So now you have the capability to get a tip as a technician. You know, tips has, have not been possible historically before in our industry, as you know, people would occasionally give you like a bottle of whiskey or you.

Know, a bottle $20 bill once a year.

Right.

Very, very ra. A tip as a technician.

Yeah, they would even like feed you. They would love you so much because you spent so much time and you know, save their, their kids from milk getting spoiled. Right. People will treat you well. But there was no mechanism to add tips to technicians. So now we actually see a lot of technicians making a killing of tips. And not every business owner would allow it. So business owners, there are still a lot of business owners that don't like tips in this industry and you can easily turn it off. But we actually have majority of the business owners that we work with, they love tips and they allow it and their technicians love it even more. Right. Because now.

Yeah, that'd be great. That goes right to the technician. How does, how does the technician get paid out for that? Does it deposit into their account or is it responsibility of the owner to distribute that money?

Yeah, the way it works is we don't usually want to touch technicians tips and you know, we don't have a direct relationship with technician because I wouldn't like it as a business owner myself.

Right.

So we just pay it to company's account and then you run a report and just add it to technician's payroll on a weekly or monthly basis.

Okay, that makes sense.

Okay. And so, and so the tips, when you land on a signature page with a tip, so you get the tip and then right after that you get a review for the company. So that means technician would work really hard to get the tip. Right. And that aligns with the review, with the online reputation, with what the business owner wants. Right. Because that's what business owners usually struggle with. You know, they ask technician another ask for a technician. Hey, you got to use the dongle, you got to deposit the check, right. And you got to ask for review. And technicians are like, well, we're not marketers. We're not going to do any of that. Okay. I'm just going to fix things. Right. And you have to make it easy. And that's what we found. If you make it easy enough, you know, and if you align the interest, then we see some tremendous results with tips and reputation.

Do the majority of the customers utilize the reputation Management and, and kind of feedback have you got from that as far as them improving their, you know, Google reviews or Angie's list reviews, things like that?

Yeah. So what we see is that if you compare a typical follow up that companies send, some companies don't even send anything at all. They don't care about online reputation, which is not a good business decision. Right. If you want to grow your business, then online reputation is critical in our day and age. And those that do care about that, they usually send follow ups. And follow ups are annoying to us as consumers. You don't want another text message or another email. With iWallet, you essentially get reviews in real time. And so if you compare follow ups with real time reviews, we see up to five times as many reviews that are being given to our customers.

And that's fantastic because they already have, they already have the phone in their hand. Right. They already have the iPad in their hand. So do they. As far as the workflow goes, the technician shows them the invoice or the bill, the customer does the tap to pay, the customer decides the tip, and then they can leave a review right there. All from the same device.

No, no, no, that. Okay, that would be, you know, that would not work. That would be illegal.

Is it because of the, the way that Google has it set up for reviews and tracking and things like that?

Right, because you have to, you have to leave a review from your own device. Right? Yeah. And that's, that's the whole secret sauce with our system. And that's kind of like a Covid thing because people didn't want to touch technicians devices at the time.

I remember that.

Right. So we created this remote signature capture, what we call it. We send you a text message or an email and then once you get the link, you just click on that link. So you open that on your own device. Actually more familiar to you, more comfortable to use. Right. And that's where you sign and that's where you tip and that's where we send you to a Google page. And most of the time people are already signed in. All right. Because Gmail is so popular, then it becomes authentic customer review. At the minimum, if a customer doesn't want to add review, we have the thumbs up, thumbs down at a minimum, you get real time feedback. If it's a thumbs down, you would immediately be notified that something is going on in the field. So this is a great feedback mechanism as well, from the field before it escalates. Right. Because that's usually how owners and you know, supervisors find out about problems when the customer already cannot tolerate it anymore, they're calling you. Well, when they're calling you, that means it's already, the house is already on fire. Right?

Right. Or you see a one star review on Google pop up, you know, right after the technician leaves. So I like that idea of the thumbs up, thumbs down, because the thumbs down can prevent that one star review, which is very costly to a business, especially if it's something other than price. Right. One of the big things that I had in, in my business, and I think that everybody else experiences it, is the high fees associated with processing credit cards. It's just one of those things that we've all come to deal with. But every time we look at our PNL and we sort it from most expensive to least expensive expenses, I see those credit card fees and, and they're huge. They're near the top. And you see things like marketing and labor and payroll and insurance and you can't really cut a lot of those things. But as a business owner, every, at least every quarter I would look through my expenses and I try to reduce them as much as possible. Right. And when I switched to, I've switched to many credit card processors over the years. I use Chase, I used Square, I used Stripe, I used Heartland First Data and I usually actually went to the ones that had the, what I felt was the best technology. I also used Pazer. Then I switched to Service Titan Payments for the convenience of the fact that it was in Service Titan. But I noticed when I switched, I paid a lot more money to you for that convenience. So I know that iWallet can save over that. How are you able to save on these processing fees over what a big company like Service Titan can do?

Yeah. So for a lot of these companies, they understand the value of full integration and that's why they upcharge you. Right. Because they can. And we position ourselves as this alternative to those business owners that do want to save. It's. It might not be for everybody. Some business owners don't feel it's necessary to save, you know, processing fees. They'd rather grow the company. You know, because all business owners have different stages of their business life. Right. Some are focused on growth, some are focused, focused on the bottom line. You know, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle because you do want to watch the bottom line as well to improve the valuation of your business and the cash flow. We just don't have the margins as big as the, our competitors are. And, and that's how we're Able. I mean, we're still cash flow positive and profitable company, but just don't charge as much of the as others. And we just come to this with a different mindset. Our mindset is something that I struggled with myself for many years is to create some something that is honest, that does not overcharge businesses and does not raise your prices every year, you know, secretly when you're not looking. And you know, we're in a mission to save business owners time and money and that seems to be resonating so far quite well with our market.

That's great. That's great to hear. So you were talking earlier about mobile check deposit and I agree with you. A lot more consumers, a lot more homeowners write checks still today than you would think. Maybe that's because their checkbook is at their house, they don't bring it around with them. And when it's time to pay the technician or pay the salesperson, the deposit for the install, your checkbook is usually right there by where you're working or where you're doing the transaction. And mobile check deposit was the biggest pain, the biggest pain. So we had when we used payments with Stripe, we couldn't do mobile check deposit. The only way we were able to do it consistently in the field at the time, back in the day was with Pazer, even service titans, mobile check deposit didn't work the way that I had expected. So you're saying that you guys can do mobile check deposit, just taking the picture of the front of the check and not having to endorse it or anything. I've never heard anything like that before. That's really cool. Can you tell me a little bit more about how that works?

Yeah, we actually have a patented technology. We have an issued patent for this because we ran so many checks and we know the business that is depositing checks. We know who you are. Right. So we can just do a virtual stamp on the back of the check for you. And yeah, it works quite well. The checks, the checks business is interesting because there is very little margin in checks processing. Right. Nobody wants to pay anything. Nobody wants to pay anything. But the losses are humongous. Right. If there is fraud, then you know, you can lose a limited amount of money. Especially with us, we usually don't charge merchants anything for checks processing if they process cards with us because business owners usually like to think that, well, I can just deposit checks for free at the bank. Right. But you, you still have to go to the bank and you know, spend your time. It's not really free. Right. But, you know, we don't argue and we just give it away for free. Right. And it works really well. There is a lot that goes into fraud and fraud monitoring limits and making sure that, you know, things are working well. And you also don't want to have the experience of holding up funds. That happens a lot. We see. Because from the processor's perspective, if you see a large check that is very suspicious, you might want to wait for seven days or maybe for 14 days. And I understand that as a processor, that's an eternity. Right. From a commercial perspective, it's unacceptable.

It's really bad because that big check is the majority of it, at least in H vac, is equipment, and you might have already paid payroll and commissions on it. That's. I've experienced that before where I've had transactions that were held, especially when I switched to new processors. And that can add up really fast. Were you, are you guys able to circumvent around that with their technology? So when they switch to you, you don't have to hold those big checks?

Correct. That's, that's what we've been doing so far, quite successfully. So underwriting is a big part of that. Fraud monitoring is a big part of that because it's really, it's really the bad guys that spoil everything to everybody. Right, sure. Because if there is no risk, you know, why would you hold the money? But once you get hit with fraud, that's, that's when it, you know, you become extremely cautious. We with our partners have been quite well at this and our merchants have not had any hold times whatsoever. But we might not approve just everybody for checks processing. Some people do get upset that us, you know, they have, they've done some bad things in the past and unfortunately we cannot, you know, we cannot help them. Right. So, and, but we usually really upfront about this and, you know, there are no surprises.

So let's talk about these Voice AI phone payments. Never heard of that. And I feel that I'm kind of on the forefront with AI. I'm always searching for products and services that can help contractors. Never heard voice AI phone payments. How does that work?

Yeah, so this kind of relates to PCI compliance, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners have heard about. PCI compliance has not been around up until, I think, 2004. And that's when Visa, MasterCard really started cracking down on, on those crazy practices where people would just, you know, write down card numbers on a piece of paper and it will fly away. Right. So people were really sloppy with those card numbers before. And then in about 2010they rolled out, I think it was actually 2018 where they rolled out strict regulations about call centers. Cause you know, whenever, now, whenever you do you have a call center, you just. It's so easy to record a phone call. Back then it was really expensive.

You know, right now almost all of them are recorded.

Right, right, right, right. And because the calls are being recorded, card numbers are being recorded and they call this P pan Personally identify information, something like that. And this, this sensitive information is not allowed to be recorded anymore according to PCI compliance. And so what companies came up with is the so called DTMF signal. Right. That's been a while. That's been around for a while. I think it's called digital tone modulation frequency, something like that. You know, whenever you press on the phone, it's really awkward to use. You know, if you mess up a digit, which is easy when, when you're doing it on the phone, then you can't really go back because that robot thing does not understand go back. You know, there's no backspace on the phone.

That's true. Yeah.

And so you have to start lower.

Antiquated too. Right. Just so actually manually entering your card on a payment system over the phone with your keypad. Wow, that seems like really. I don't even know. It's terrible.

Yeah, well, there's still a lot of that out there, believe it or not, in our day and age. And so what we came up with is an idea of making it easier to be PCI compliant for those call centers. Because majority of companies out there, they either run their own call centers or they outsource it. Right. It's a big problem. And some companies, we see it used to be allowed that you could just pause the recording, take down the card number, but now it's not, it's not allowed anymore in the PCI compliant world. And the latest 4.01 PCI compliant document, it actually says that it's not allowed. So you have to go through additional steps and you have to. You're on the hook for more liability if you do it this way. And that's where that's when Voice AI was born. So the idea with Voice AI is that we have an LLM engine that is hosted on our PCI compliance server. Unfortunately, it cannot be done on ChatGPT. They have a wonderful product. But ChatGPT is not officially PCI compliant.

Okay.

Twilio is. So, you know, it's a right It's a common. Twilio is a common voice IP provider. And so what we do to keep you out of scope, what they call PCI scope, is we would use a Twilio number where customers call. Can call that number and you will talk to our LLM. And our LLM is specifically designed for payments process to take, to take a payments over the phone. And because it's an LLM, it can actually speak really well with you, I.

Bet, and understand what you're saying. And you can say the credit card pretty fast and everything. Wow, that's really cool.

Yeah. You can even say, oh, sorry, I gave you a wrong invoice number. Can I go back? And you can, you know, you can manipulate the numbers a lot easier. And so yeah, we basically work directly with Twilio, our PCI compliant LLM server, and then the processor, which is also PCI compliant. And that's how we keep this whole chain out of the PCI scope.

Wow. So with that, my office would call customers right through Phones Pro and get credit card information over the phone. I did not know anything about the PCI compliance whatsoever. I know about it when it comes to web forms. So when I was creating web forms, there are PCI compliant systems that don't store the credit card data. And you can take a payment similar to, I believe service Titan's online payments probably have something like that. But who is at risk if your CSR calls a customer and gets a credit card over the phone and that phone call's recorded? Is that something that the contractor can be liable for or get in trouble for?

Absolutely they are. According to their merchant services agreement, contractors are liable to make sure that those numbers are not leaked. In fact, there were a couple of famous cases, I don't know if you remember in 2013, Target got hacked, their point of sale system got hacked. You know, they were like on the hook for over $200 million in 2014. Home Depot's 56 million customer car details also leaked in a very similar fashion. When it's not PCI compliant. They weren't hooked for like $179 million.

That's wild that a corporation that big wouldn't be PCI compliant since it's been around for 20 years now. Right. So if they, if Target and Home Depot are not, what, what's the chances that a $5 million H vac contractor has all their T's crossed and I's dotted on this? That's, that's something. You know, that's the thing about business. You don't know.

Really.

You don't know when you're breaking the law because there's so many of them. And when you're really small, you're just trying to grow your business and hire people and serve your customers. Right. Save money. And there's so much risk of things like this that you didn't know and what you didn't know in business, ignorance is not bliss. It actually hurts you.

Right.

And so I wonder if you know what contractors are doing to take these over the phone payments today. They just breaking the merchant processing agreement and putting themselves at risk. That's. That's something I bet a lot of contractors would not be aware of.

No, no. I've actually looked at your Facebook group people discussing this and it's a big pain. A lot of, A lot of people talk about this and it's. It's not solved. It's actually one of the reasons why I got inspired into doing something like this is, is because people struggle with it and they try to do it right, but because the rules are constantly changing, it's really hard to keep track. It's not like you need a PCI compliance document before bed, you know.

Sure.

The latest 300 pages that they put out and you know, things people don't know that and, and they can be on the hook for that. Absolutely.

Wow. That's interest. That's. It's scary to find that out. And I'm sure that, that most of the contractors want to follow the rules, but if you don't know what the rules are, you obviously can't follow them. And then once you know the rule, it could be massively inconvenient for your business to implement that. Right. So that's very important information that I'm sure that the group and the contractors will, will benefit from. That's great. Thanks for being on the show. I learned a lot about fintech payment processing and some of the cool new technology out. So. Jim, thanks a lot.

Thanks for listening to the Home Service Hacks podcast. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform so you never miss a future episode. For more information or to connect with Bill, you can check us out on Facebook @ServiceTitanHacks or visit our website site at ServiceTitanHacks.com we'll see you next time.