012: How to Paint a Big Vision and Execute It.

All right.

Hello and welcome to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host, Bill Gallagher. We're talking today to Brian Scudemar. Brian is the CEO and founder of 1-800-GOT Junk and O2E brands. He's an extraordinary entrepreneur, has a lot to share with us. He also contributes to Forbes and Inc. Magazine, Globe and Mail. He's an all around groovy guy. Welcome to the show, Brian.

Awesome, Bill, thank you so much for having me on your show.

Thanks so much. So I understand you're originally from San Francisco.

American born, raised in Canada from about the age of 8. I'm lucky that I've got family still in the United States and it's a home away from home. I'm down there all the time visiting all my cousins, aunts, uncles and so on. It's a great city. Nice.

Nice. Well, I, I've known about you and your companies for, since I guess 2001, 2002, as, as my partner and wife went through the Birthing of Giants program and got so happy to have you Believable program.

We actually it's a three year program at MIT and when our class graduated we fell in love with the group and the program and we said let's do a reunion class. We're actually on our 15th and we all plan on all 70 of us getting together forever. So it's pretty fun stuff.

That's awesome. So today we're going to talk about painted picture and what that provides your own flavor of that and like that, how it goes through and tell a couple stories of how you've used that. So tell us about how, what's the origination of this? Where did you visualize? I know a lot of people do different things to visualize and bring to life something like this. How did you arrive at this?

I was on a dock at my parents summer cabin or cottage on the water about an hour from my home in Vancouver. And it's interesting because I've been an EO member most of my business life and when I was in the entrepreneur organization early on I was surrounded by all these brilliant minds, great leaders, people with businesses way bigger than mine, much more glamorous than junk removal, all sorts of great stuff. And I found myself comparing myself to others and I found that my little million dollar company at the time in 1997 paled in comparison to what everyone else built. So I found myself in a bit of a doom loop, a little bit of a depression. Went to this dock on the water and it was a nice sunny summer Day. And I thought, okay, Brian, stop thinking negativity. It's not who you are. Start thinking about pure possibility. What could the company look like if I could grow it, if it could grow even without me? What was the potential of 1-800-got-Junk? I'm a high school dropout, a university dropout. I didn't have the money. I thought, yeah, quit the negativity and just imagine what if. So there I was. I pulled out a sheet of paper, one page, double sided, and it was like a Jerry Maguire moment, if anyone's ever seen that film, where it just came from my brain, it was just, what could the future look for, feel and act like? And I started to paint this picture. I believed and I created this term after I wrote that, the painted picture, because a picture says a thousand words. Well, I was going to put the thousand words down in writing and create the picture that I could then share with everyone in my company and have them see what I saw.

So what are the elements or process of this? Talk to us about, you know, how it's evolved today and what are the key pieces?

It's a pretty simple process. It hasn't changed much since the early days of when I first created that. So what I did is I said, okay, find an inspirational place. You know, a dock on a water is a pretty good spot, especially if you got a cold beer with you. And I just took out this sheet of paper and I wrote down very specifically intentional language things like not we hope to be or want to be or we're going to try to be in the top 30 metros in North America. I said the first line of the painted picture was, we will be in the top 30 metros or cities in North America by the end of 2003. I gave myself a five year goal, to be specific. And the reason 30. There were 30 cities bigger than Vancouver where we started. So the theory was if it could work in every market as big great. I then started to add color to the picture. What we would feel like as a company, our culture, the fun, quirky, young, ambitious culture. I said we would be the FedEx to junk removal with clean, shiny trucks, friendly, uniform drivers. I said that PR would help us really leverage and create a brand and that we'd be on the Oprah Winfrey Show. So everything I put out there to the universe, so to speak, was put in writing. One page, double sided. And the best part of the painted picture, I read it after I wrote it and I said, wow, I believe this stuff. I can see this Happening. But then I took the picture from my mind that was on paper and I shared it with people around me and it was interesting. It separated my company into two camps. Those that said, wow, this is awesome and inspiring and I want to be a part. And then it separated the other group in the company where people said, I don't think this is for me. I don't buy this. We're in one city, we're not going to be in 30. This is ridiculous. And they ultimately ended up leaving. So it became the ultimate alignment document and it got us really focused in the right powerful direction.

Yeah, I think it's a really brilliant observation. So as you start sharing the process and the story with me, I realize, oh yeah, today I did my run past a dock, past a marina, past a beach and was filled with. And I don't know why that's so inspiring for many of us, but for many of us a seaside setting is really. Or a place next to water is a place where we can imagine something into the future. So there's some. But each of us has some kind of an inspiring place to go to. Imagine something like that. And then you speak to starting with the end in mind or standing out in the future, saying what you've accomplished as if you're already there and articulating and creating a picture of something and looking back at it and saying, do I like that? I also can see that, how polarizing it can be for a team. There are people who are like, you're smoking something or I don't want any part of that vision. I have a different vision. And they begin to see themselves and it's actually a really useful thing, although sometimes it's upsetting. I know as we begin working with a coaching client and we start to go through creating all of the pieces of their one page plan and things like that. A lot of times there's a pretty hefty turnover or a turnover in some key people in that initial stage because they're like, yeah, I don't either. Like where you're going or how you're going to get there. And that gives them a new challenge that they didn't anticipate. But it's a useful thing because you can't get there with people who are rowing in the different directions.

Right, Absolutely. And I believe Jim Collins in his book Good to Great always talks about first two, then what? I believe it's first coming up with a vision where you're going, then recruit the who's the people that will figure out what it is you're going to do and how to get there. So when I create a painted picture, we've got one every, you know, for every one of our Companies, we've got four brands under the O2E Brands umbrella. O2E, by the way, stands for ordinary to exceptional. And that's what we're doing with all our businesses. What we've done is we create a painted picture for every one of the businesses and it's the full detail of what it looks like, what it feels like, how we will act. One thing a painted picture does not do and doesn't even attempt to do is say how to get there. Because what I found is when I start to think, well, how am I going to get fitter? How am I going to do that bike ride up to Whistler, straight uphill, how am I going to run a marathon? I then start to question myself and go, that's too hard, I'm too lazy. I don't want to do it. It scares me. With the painted picture, it's just describing where. And then once you've got the where locked in, then you can over time figure out how you're going to do that.

Yeah, I think that's a. It creates that picture. You've got an expression of purpose. You can see values at play. And you see what we would often refer to as the BHAG, or maybe some interim step with the BHAG. If you're looking at a five year thing and a BHAG is a 10 to 30 year time frame, there's that interim picture. But different than our three to five year chess moves or things like that, we've now created a more vivid picture. So what did that look like for you? What happened the first time you engaged this? What difference did that make?

It made all the difference in the world. It gave me a place to believe in, it gave me a destination to go. Cameron Herold, who was our COO at the time, helped us grow from 2 million to $106 million. Fantastic guy, great friend, and he calls the painted picture a vivid vision. So it doesn't matter whether it's called the painted picture a vivid vision, whatever it is, it's taking the picture in the entrepreneur's brain and sharing it with everyone else around you. Now, what was interesting about Cameron, Cameron used to say in the early days, he goes, brian's a visionary. I can't think in pictures, I can't think in visions. And a lot of entrepreneurs say, I've got the same challenge that Cameron does. Well, I would challenge that. That's not the case, that people just need a little tweak to understand how to think in pictures and how to think about a vision. And so the example I love to give is you're imagining you're going on a trip. You know, if you could go anywhere in the world to relax, where would you go? And you get people to describe it. You know, I go to the Cook Islands. I'd be sitting on this beach, sand wind blowing through my hair, sitting with my, you know, my wife, my husband, whatever. And they can describe the sounds, they can describe the smells, they can describe the feeling of the cold beer in their hands. And people can describe a picture of where they're going on vacation. And people don't talk about, well, I don't have the money, I don't have the time, I don't know how we're going to get there. That's not what you're supposed to do. Just pick the destination, see yourself there and describe it in full. Technicolor.

Yeah, that's brilliant. So what form did that take? Did that stay as a document? How did you engage the rest of the team in that?

It's always stayed as a document. So it's a one page painted picture and one page double sided. And what I've always done is checked in constantly with people on my team, people that touch my business customers. And I say, what? What do you see? What does it look like? What's the one thing we could do to really take this business to the next level? And I gather information, but I'm the creator of the painted picture. Once I've created it, I will sit down with key people on my team, my leadership team, Eric, my president, and of course we'll run through their ideas and make sure it resonates. But what I don't do is change the key details, even if I might be the only person that see them, because I see it as my job as a visionary to see what others can't.

Huh? And then do others on your team create their own pictures or what's their opportunity for the team in this process?

We've had over the years all sorts of different manifestations of painted pictures. We've had people that have created them personally and put them on their desk. We've had people that have created personal painted pictures like myself and shared them with friends and family as well, supporters and cheerleaders. We've had people that have created mini visions when they're going out to recruit someone to say, this is exactly who I'm looking for. Do you know this person? We use painted picture in so many ways because if you can see it, conceive it in your brain, you can get out there and make it happen the clearer the picture is in your mind.

Now what about visuals? You talk about what sounds like a written document and I know some people are more visual. What's the difference between using visual versus written language?

There are people who have created these painted pictures, even people that have come into our head office, the Junction, and been inspired to create a painted picture and they've gone out and shared them with us at a later date. And I've seen quite a few people put pictures in them. Now the reason why I strongly, I mean it has to be whatever works for the person in the company, of course, but the reason why I strongly believe pictures should not be a part of the painted picture is I want people, my people, to be reading the painted picture and using their own imagination to see themselves there. If you give them pictures, they might not resonate with those pictures or they might not see it the same way. And I think the most important part is going, how does somebody take those words, see themselves there to make it very personal? And adding pictures I think can significantly get in one's way.

Interesting, interesting.

It's the same reason when I get up and I tell my story on stage in front of a conference, I don't use PowerPoint and I don't show photos. I want people to follow me in their own minds through my story and be there. And it's just I'm a big believer in using your imagination and I've always enjoyed that. And it seems to work.

Uh huh. Interesting. And what about using a copywriter to polish up something or to help refine it? Do you have a thought about that?

Yeah, I think a copywriter is great for marketing material. I think for a painted picture, as long as someone can make it sound clear to others who read it, I think it's important that it's still in the voice of the entrepreneur, of the visionary. So I'm all for having someone come in and help tighten up the language as long as the voice doesn't change. Because when people read our vision and when they've gone back to the early years of following along with our painted picture, people have told me that this, this is me, this sounds like me, they want to follow my vision. So it has to feel like us, but it has to feel like clear, decisive leadership that resonates with the person who's creating the vision. We follow people in this world, we follow politicians, we follow leaders who are leading sports teams. I think that it's important that the leader has a painted picture that resonates with those who want to join the cause.

So it is something that's shared widely. You're looking for people's buy in and their reaction to it. Why five years, why not three? Why not 10? Where do you end up with that?

Yeah, and you know, I don't pretend to have any answers here. This is my experience and what's worked for me. So for me I have a trouble, I have trouble seeing 10 years into the future. If, if I think of 10 years, that's an awful long time. Because you think 10 years back, the technologies and the things we're using today, that didn't exist, it's just, it's a long time. So five seems to be far enough out, but not too far. Three, I think three is okay. I think three is an okay number, especially if somebody wants to, to know that that time frame is a little more attainable. We've used shorter time frames. If we really tried to make something happen where we've had to turn things around more quickly and we've had a time frame that people feel closer to. But I think three to five years is the magic number.

Uh huh. Really great. So, and tell us about, you shared a story before and about Paul with your Toronto franchise. Tell us what happened there. And.

Yeah, Paul Guy is one who's created a painted picture. And I remember years ago, probably five years ago, when he created a vision to be at $10 million in revenue and I couldn't see it sounded like a ridiculous number. Yet he's, you know, by the end of this year he will be there. And it's just where was he when.

He engaged this process and came up with this for himself? What did he look like at the beginning?

Yeah, I don't remember exactly where he was at, but I think he set a $10 million goal when he was probably three million, three and a half, something like that. And what I love about Paul Guy is he had a challenge in the beginning years creating a painted picture. And we spent a day together on a retreat really walking through the process and I got so much of my learning about how to create a painted picture and how to coach others through a painted picture by my time with him because he really struggled and we really focused in on where don't think about how. And it's interesting because I read his painted picture and the destination was clear But I was concerned, I started thinking, well, how is he really going to get to 10 million? Is that really possible? All the things that are going to get in the way and one of the things that he did, he was a leader in was our first franchise partner to run a year long radio campaign and putting a bunch of money towards that and a bunch of faith and belief that it was something that was worth investing in that would change the, the direction of his business. And it's incredible how much brand awareness he has in his market with 1-800-got junk in Toronto. And I do believe that he picked all the right things to get to 10 million number because he believed in his vision.

Interesting. So that picture then frames the how that you work on later because you've got that piece in mind, that end place in mind so you can keep looking back at is this a pathway that serves me as you do the interim planning?

Yeah, it is. And when you say the path that serves you, the painted picture has to serve both your business, your personal life. It has to be something that you look at, you say, I really want that. I can really see that. So if I look at my why. So Simon Sinek, who's written the book, starts with why. And Simon was on our board for a little while and you know, he's an absolute genius. And Simon says people buy why you do not what you do. They need to align with why you are building and growing what you're doing. You're, you're growing. And so if I look at my business and my life, my why is creating big possibilities that I can lob out there and you just never know they might happen. So the bigger, the bolder, the more exciting it is to me. We're a $250 million group of companies under O2E Brands. If I think of the future and where we're growing, by 2021, we'll be a billion dollar company. Now, those numbers aren't really about the numbers. It's not about the money. I drive a little Fiat because I love all things Italian and a Ferrari just didn't seem to fit the bill. But if I look at my life and what I want, it's not the money, it's big, bold ideas growing a company to a billion dollars and the impact it would have on all our people and the, the, the success that we'll have in the customer service world with all our O2E brands. So I think understanding someone's why is incredibly important. Because if a painted picture doesn't resonate with you and to your, you know, the depths of your soul. It's easy to jump off board and say, this is too hard. I no longer believe.

Yes. Yeah. It's got a call to you. Well, they say that, right? The top line is vanity. And I think that the vanity and ego are tied. And there is something fulfilling about like, okay, we create. The scope and scale of. Of something is really the top line. And while cash may be critical for good operations, that. And that scale of something does give us a game to play that resonates with us somewhere, that it matters to us, that engages us and calls us into working on something over time.

Yeah. And I would wholeheartedly agree with you that that top line is often ego and vanity. And in my earlier years building a business, that's all it was, was just grow, grow, grow for growth's sake. And what I've learned is the number really isn't about the number and about the ego. It's fun to say, yeah, we did it, but the number is really about the impact. More people in our business, more entrepreneurially minded people that buy into our franchise program, that we're building great things together. That's my source of pride.

Yes. Yes. There's. Yeah, totally get it. Well, look, you can leverage the ego and then thinking about the scale of something in your impact is part of our fulfillment as human beings. You can look back and say, yeah, I feel good about what I did. That is a level of effort worthy of my life, my time.

Absolutely.

Well, that's right. So let's recap then, the key elements. I think there are really kind of three things that you talked about. Right. The first is your location, retreat, getting away. How much time do you allow for this?

I generally take a day now. There's a lot of time leading up to it where you're not even working on business. You're not thinking necessarily about exactly where you're going, but it's all the conversations you have up to that point in your life. I then find though, that it's a one day thing where I'll go walk in the forest, I'll sit on the beach. It's finding somewhere inspirational to me so that my mind just flows. And you talked about it earlier. The water works for a lot of people. I think nature, we connect well to nature because you just realize how insignificant we are in the whole scheme of the world. So I connect with nature, I find an inspirational place and I start writing.

Yeah, I think there's a few. A mountaintop is one. A Beach is another. Some kind of a vista often. Right. If you're going to envision the future, there is often a vision that frees you up. Head down in the maze in your cubicle is not a place to imagine much of anything.

Yeah, A change of scenery, I think, is the key. And whatever that might be for someone, it could be sitting in a really awesome restaurant with a glass of red wine and, you know, that could work for someone. Some people want the buzz and the energy of an outside space. Some people might find that they've got a little cabin to retreat to. Whatever it might be, it's finding what works for you.

And then is this largely a solitary thing? Have you done this with a wife, a partner?

I've always done it alone, Bill. I think that it's how I do my best thinking. But when I've coached others through their painted picture, working together, the togetherness can help. When I find that you need someone to ask you the questions. So someone that could help me, if I was new to this process, I would want them to say, okay, Brian, what does it look like when you're there? What does a billion look like? Not from a dollar perspective, but how many people are in your company? What's the culture like? What are they saying about your business to their friends and their family when you're not around? How many trucks do you have? How many brands? You know, I want people to ask me questions, to pull it all out. And it's in the same way that I go back to the process of, okay, where would you go on a trip? Tell me about what that looks like. And sometimes people need help there. So for me, doing it alone works. But asking questions, I think is another great alternative.

Well, I noticed just a contrast. So for me doing a process like this, I just need that kind of framework, the questions and I can ask myself, and I make some notes and I can think about it and so on. My wife, who you know well, Lori, loves to talk it through, so she'll make a few notes herself, but then she likes to talk it through, so she likes to hear it coming out of her mouth. And she doesn't particularly want your input, But that's true in a lot of things. Right. She wants to have it be heard and appreciated, and the act of having an active listener is helpful for her to discover it. She just doesn't drop it down on the table. The other thing from mine that I think you sort of referenced, but I find really makes a difference for me is to imagine how old I'll be how old my children and my parents and the year. What are the inevitable things around? So that sometimes helps me to imagine what would I like to be at that point.

Yeah, no, it's funny that you say that because I do the same thing and I coach others into doing it. It's hard for us to imagine the world at a future point in all detail until we actually take something so close to us, like our kids. Someone that has a five year old can go, okay, I can imagine when they're 10, yes. I can imagine what they're doing in their life. I can imagine myself instead of being 46 today, being 51. Holy crap. But you know, it's like you think ahead into the future and you just go, okay. That's a place that grounds you and allows you to then go, okay, so what does everything else around me look like?

Yeah, it's really great. So we have a variety of related things that we use that are totally complementary to this. After you do the this, then you can start to think about the key pieces which we do somewhat with like three to five year moves in a company. And we're not still asking the how, but we're looking at where do you want to end up? Then we employ stuff in the, in the one year and the quarterly and things like that to figure out how to get there. I think on a personal standpoint that what Art Gazelle's clients and readers of the Scaling Up Rockefeller Habits books will be familiar with also will be the one page strategic plan and the one page personal plan where we look at and think about the things that matter to us in all areas of life. And as heads of owners, CEOs, founders of companies, there's an integration probably for all human beings, but in particular for that group, of all aspects of life into one complete picture.

Awesome. In the spirit of tools and of sharing for the good of the whole, I do have a link to a painted picture document if anyone is interested. If you're listeners, it's simply o2ebrands.com so the letter o number 2e. O2ebrands.com painted picture.

Awesome. So we'll put that link in the show Notes as well. People can refer to the show notes. We'll have this up soon on itunes and all other sources in our blog and that kind of thing. We'll share it back with you as well. So thanks so much for talking with us today. And we'll put all the links and all of the stuff as well for people to refer to, to walk themselves through creating their own painted picture.

Awesome. And say hi to Lori for me.

Thanks again, Brian.

Okay. Thanks.

Sam.