028: Our Conscious and Unconscious Mind

Hi and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and Gazelle's business coach, Bill Gallagher. We have a fantastic topic today. It's all about the mind game, right? As entrepreneurs, as leaders in businesses, so much of our own thinking, both conscious and the unconscious, impacts our performance, the team and the whole enterprise. We're talking today with a fantastic guest, Tanya Chernova, an expert in this area. You know, it's funny, I first met Tanya in Bangkok. I met her husband in Toronto. She's in Toronto today. I next saw her in Idaho, but she's originally from Russia. So we're just like all over the place. And I think you'll discover as our conversation goes all over the place today, there is a common thread and it's really powerful and has powerful insights for your business and your leadership. Welcome to the show, Tanya.

Thank you so much, Bill.

Yeah, so your book's undermined, right? And you have been noted as an accomplished businesswoman. You have your own personal story of coming across that you've been now talking and speaking all over the world about this aspect of tapping the mind to alter the subconscious beliefs that that change your life and your business and how to change them all. And I saw you speak a couple times now, and I'm looking forward to bringing your message to our podcast audience.

Thank you so much for having me. And you are such an inspiration to all of the people who listen to you. I'm just really excited to amplify a lot of the teachings that you've already shared with your audiences and then give people a bit more insight into some of the questions they're asking themselves and really some understanding as to why they continue to repeat some of these patterns that may be limiting their success and how to break through to create their vision for what they want.

Yeah, tell me. Let's start. So we want to talk today about conscious and subconscious things. So give us a little idea of the core principle here and then let's talk about some examples.

Well, it's in the conversation of overcoming self sabotage or really getting the results we want whenever we set a goal for ourselves. I tell people that your brain processes your goal that you set from two different places. There's two different parts of the mind that are listening to your language at any given point, and the conscious mind, which is the part of the mind that's evolved after birth, really coming to completion around the age of 21, 25. It's our logical, rational mind that has strategies, consequences. It's the present day mind that Says, I want to make this much more money or I'd like to hire this many more people. It's the logical part of the mind that says if that then. So this, it's like cause, effect. And that part of the mind is the adult mind, if you will. But it's only in operation 1 to 5% of the day. And the subconscious mind, or the unconscious mind, however people refer to it, is really the part of the mind that holds our habits and our patterns and our emotions and our intuition and our survival strategies really. And ultimately that's operating 95 to 99% of the day. And our conscious mind is known as our goal setter. So we set a goal with our conscious mind. I should do this. And then our subconscious mind is the goal getter because it goes automatically into autopilot to move towards what we want. But if somebody has a limiting belief or some sort of limitation or a survival strategy that's working against the goal that we have, then your goal getter is in effect working against you. And that's when you start to feel the need to procrastinate, the need to slow down, the need to eat or sleep, or this foggy weirdness of overwhelm. Whenever you're trying to do something that seems like it's a very natural, normal thing to do. Pick up a phone, make a call, send an email. Things that are normal for you on an everyday basis become impossible when your subconscious mind is working to protect you against what it perceives as danger, even though it's the very thing you want.

Really interesting. So we're going to go into both of those things right now. Why don't you. I'm immediately like, as you talk, I'm thinking about a new challenge that I just took on and different times that I've handled stuff. But tell me about your story from the preparation for the show. A little bit about how when you came to the country, you started to lock in some new beliefs even as you learned our language.

Exactly. So I'm so glad you mentioned language because it really is language that defines our reality. The way that we use language creates a picture of what the mind actually perceives as reality. And so the way that we even state, state our goals is what could actually be a trigger for self sabotage. And so when I was younger, I mean, I got here when I was five, six years old, and of course no English, so as I started to go to school, they test you for not only just the regular English language, but also do you understand the social meaning behind what people say, like the squeaky wheel gets the grease or don't put all your eggs in one basket, or you know, one bird, two in a hand, something, you know, like those kinds of things. So long story short, I learned from a very young age that don't put your. Put your eggs all in one basket was something that people said. And especially as an entrepreneur, you know, I came from a family that started a lot of businesses because they had all these opportunities. So I came to a place from no opportunity to tons of opportunity with this new belief that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. And, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, which makes me so demanding. But anyway, the result of that was that as I grew up, you know, the belief that I could, could pursue anything because now I have this free land in front of me as well as don't put your eggs all in one basket. Created that I got, I created one business and then another. So I worked in the skincare industry starting from a very young age, from 14 with my family. And then by the time I was 23, I'd moved to France and I was an international speaker. I traveled 22 countries a year. And then I developed a skincare brand that became a number one seller on the shopping channel. And I had my first million dollar company at 27. But you know, don't put all your eggs in one basket because the bigger the success, the bigger the perception of failure. So of course I thought, no, you know what, I actually don't want to just do skin care. I love speaking in corporate education. I'm going to take my business degree, put it out there and start speaking. And then I opened up that particular thing. And then as I kept moving forward, an amazing opportunity for a startup came up for cat litter. And of course I did that. You know, why wouldn't I do that? And then there was, you know, it was just like an ongoing thing where I'd have business after business and all of them, you know, I was single without children, so I had the energy to fuel everything because everything you have requires all of your energy to back it up. And I think in the mindset was that people were like, wow, good for you. You know, you got all these different things happening. But the reality is that, you know, it's our survival strategies, Bill, that actually drive our behavior. And what people don't realize is even though you feel like you're driven by passion as an entrepreneur, which you are, underlying the thing that's really pushing you is a survival Strategy, which is I can't fail. So I'm going to create a whole bunch of different things and I'm going to put a bit of me in everything so that if something goes wrong, I've still got this other thing and if this, you know, dah, dah, dah. And then at the same time I'm actually not committing to anything totally because I've got so much stuff going on. So it's socially acceptable not to commit to anything, but I'm really not putting myself out out there. And then as you get older, you realize, you know what, if you laser focus and finally commit, ultimately you can go a lot further. You can just go a lot further. You can finally take the one business that you have, and that's the hard part, is that which one is it? But ultimately, you know, taking the one that you need to work on and really making something extraordinary out of it rather than just riding six horses, staying safe.

Well, I think about like, okay, so we all have these strengths and they're survival based strengths that we develop early on and then we begin to uncover them and we reframe them in language and that gives us access to things. And I think as you talk personally about how for me as a little kid I just thought that like, well, I'm smart and I'm articulate, so I better be all that. But then I also think about some deeply upsetting, confronting embarrassing moments where when I wasn't smart enough or I didn't know the right thing to say in a given moment or, or I said the wrong thing. So if ever I was stupid and then every, or not well spoken, I was embarrassed and upset and I went around all the time looking at, well, am I smart enough? Am I well prepared? Who's smarter than me? Well, he said that nicely or she didn't or all of those kinds of things. And then there's no fulfillment. But if I really looked and I wasn't relying on that there were other things that mattered more to me that I really cared about, and then speaking those in language allowed for me to go beyond that. Certainly I am actually pretty smart and articulate and yet that's not enough to give me the success that I want or the fulfillment for that matter.

So what you're saying is that the feeling that you had of not being smart enough, you simply overcame it with the desire or the determination, or do you feel like it's still stopping you?

No, you were talking about the survival strengths and things like that. Like I have to be this and that. Right. So I was. And am. And yet at the same time, I realized it wasn't fully enough. Like, there'd always be somebody smarter and always somebody would say something a little bit better, things like that. What I discovered was missing was more the opportunity to make a difference for people. Like, really, that was more fulfilling. So then I can use being smart and articulate, but I can use a whole lot else. And I'm not limited just to those things in making a difference for people.

Okay, so what you're saying is that you relied on the strength of being smart, but then you realized, know what? Making a difference is the most important thing. So when you have a value that trumps your, you know, your regular survival strategies, you just. People generally tend to move towards their highest value. Right, but what I want to share with you. Yeah, I mean, so most people are not as evolved, Bill, as you are, as an extraordinary thinker. I'm just going to share that. You know, what's important for everyone to understand is that we used to think that self sabotage was an act, like procrastination, self doubt, like, so I'm not smart enough, am I smart enough? And based on how. How potentially debilitating that thought is in your mind, you will go for it or you won't go for it, you'll raise your hand, you'll take the risk, etc. Right, right. And if you've got something like making a difference driving you, then you won't even care about yourself. You'll just be so involved in making a difference, you'll put yourself on the line. Right. But what it's important for us to understand is that the subconscious mind is working behind the scenes whether we see it or not. Like, we really think, oh, I'm making a conscious choice, choice to act despite my fears, which is great and mature. But the reality is that deep down, well below our awareness, something else is happening that we don't actually see. And, you know, we talk about this in the book, is that it's the first time any psychological outline has ever been made like this, which is called the blueprint of self sabotage, where we tell people, you know, a defining moment, something that happens early on in your childhood, or it could also happen later on as a young adult. But usually it's something really early that happens, whether it's something that's positive and reinforces this, oh, I am smart, or something that's traumatizing and you think, oh, I'm a loser, whatever. Yeah, and some trauma, right. And it creates a decision like Your mind in that moment creates a decision about yourself, others, and the world. Because what we're talking about is that it's not just a decision about me, it's a decision about I am stupid. People are cruel, life's not fair. That's kind of the paradigm if you're embarrassed in some situation and then your perception of reality is, I walk through my life now and it shapes the actual reticular, activating system in the brain, almost like a fisheye lens, so that you walk through life looking for reinforcement, like, I am stupid. People are cruel and life is unfair, and it becomes ultra true for you. So your perception of reality just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And there's a neuronal part that actually wires itself together through this repetition. I'm stupid. I'm stupid. And this neuronal wiring becomes a default. So that ultimately what ends up happening is that you go for a job interview, for example, and then they ask you a question. And you're in your conscious mind, you're confident, you've said your affirmations, you've gargled, you've done your happy dance, you've done your Tony Robbins high five. Like, you know, you listen to your favorite song, whatever, you go in there, you're powerful. Boom. They ask you some question, all of a sudden it triggers. And the thing is, your subconscious part that sabotages you does not come out unless fear is involved. And then you say something. And all of a sudden the little voice that comes out from in your mind like, you are such an idiot, how could you have answered it like that? And all of a sudden the whole interview unravels. So the undermining part of you on a neuronal level, I want people to know, actually communicates in two different ways. It communicates through inner chatter or physical symptoms. You might get a headache, foggy brain, an ankle might hurt, your back gives out. Like all of those are because your mind controls your body. And then you realize over time, oh, my gosh, this is a pattern that reoccurs in my life because the survival strategy is constantly keeping me from taking risks. And then it creates your results in your life.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I see this all the time with leaders who start to go into high stress situations or things they're particularly worried about. And then they get sick, they have injuries, they have things like that, or they do crazy behaviors in those time frames.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So that's all of us in some way. Right? And the question becomes, what is my goal? And as. And how Do I frame this goal in my mind in a way where it does not trigger fear? And then as I move towards it, as I get closer out of my comfort zone and I cross the threshold of fear, how do I see myself breaking down? Because obviously there's parts of me that are underneath that I can't even see, creating wreaking havoc and then taking those, turning them into breakthroughs and moving forward despite. But it takes a lot of consciousness. And I always tell people, you know what, believe it or not, it's not even about the goal. Like you might set a goal, but make it less about the goal and more about the growth. Really discover who you are as you start moving towards what you want because that'll give you more insight into what's really happening than anything else.

That's really interesting. So are you saying that the language that we use consciously can reframe and alter the subconscious, the feelings and all that other stuff that we've got going on?

Yeah. So I'll give you. Can I give you an example?

Yeah, please.

Okay. So essentially when someone says, for instance, I need to hire, like I need to hire now it's gotten to a point where we're in flood. I need to hire. I can't take it. Okay, perfect. So what people don't realize is that, you know, the desperation, which is desperation, I need to. So there's four different energy of language. And in the law of prosperity, money goes where energy flows. And so the lowest possible level which you are creating financial prosperity is desperation. Like people do things out of desperation, which is good short term motivation, but over a long period of time, it's a massive leak in your energy bucket. Right, but I need to hire someone. Communicates to the subconscious mind, like, if I don't, you know, I won't make it. And then you trigger fear because you're telling your mind, like, if this doesn't get done, we're never going to make it. And you think this level of stress is helpful, but the subconscious mind goes into the automatic default which probably got you to not hiring in the first place, which is, I can't trust anyone to do what I do. I can't delegate. People are idiots. Underneath it all, if you've got a company right now that's thriving and you're doing well and you don't have the right people in place, and you see that there's a pattern of not hiring the right people or the onboarding processes, you know, not really effective for you. Whatever the case may be, your results reveal what's undermined? Chapter two of our book, your results reveal what's undermined. If you have an issue with hiring, some part of you does not trust people. And then you say, I need to hire. And then your mind goes into default. Like, if I. If I go too fast, I'll hire the wrong person. And then you don't even open the resumes. You don't even post the ad. Then you get overwhelmed. Then you need to drink or eat or do whatever. Like, you know, that's the problem. So you have to upgrade the language. And the next level is not desperation, but it's obligation. So I have to. I have to hire someone, which makes it like, I have to. Like, it's this task. Like, it's heavy and burdensome and unjoyful and just, like, I have to do it. I know I have to, but I don't. And then you make yourself wrong for not having done it. And your brain goes into the category of like, yeah, you have to hire someone, you idiot. Look at the last time you hired someone, it was totally the wrong person. They showed up perfect in the interview, completely useless. Three months out, you wasted all this money. So your brain starts judging you in that space. Then there's a higher level, which is dedication. I'm committed to the growth of my company. I just see that my team is working so hard. They need support. I'm committed to making this number this year. I want to get into this new territory. I'm excited about hiring this next person. I just know the right person's coming my way. And all of a sudden, the energy, you. You can hear it. It's different. People speak differently when they're like, I'm excited. I want to. I can't wait. And as much as, you know, you're saying, oh, it's just language, you know, your subconscious mind's like, it must be exciting. This must be a good thing. And then it starts dipping into the creativity box of looking for opportunity, possibility. And then it releases the negative pattern of survival, Fight, flight, and moves us into a space of, like, positive intuition. And then, Bill, there's the highest level at which you can actually work, and that's inside inspiration. Like, I'm woken up in the middle of the night because I'm being called to grow my company. I know, like, that's it. I can't. I can't. I just see a vision that's so big. It's moving me towards. I feel like it's a lighthouse. All I need to do is move beyond, like, that's already. You're just being propelled. And the person you are when you are interviewing people is so passionate and amazing. Only the best are drawn to you. Because if you think about drawing the best candidate to you, do you want to work for a leader who's desperate or one that's so inspired they can't sleep?

Right, right, right. Well, I've had that before where I had that recently where I had a CEO come to us and say, yeah, I think we're ready to scale. I think all we need to do is put a lot more people on. And so I want to do some of your top grading work. But when I looked at the business with them, I realized that there were massive gaps in the strategy. And. And it was all just more of the same. And there was no different. Like, we weren't going to do anything because there was no inspiration there. There was no passion, there was no purpose. The values weren't clear. There was no differentiation. So it was a world of strategy that had been avoided. And it's a little bit off of where we're going to go. I'm intrigued by. Well, I worked with my wife for 10 years. Right. So we went through a variety of spaces in that business. And I know that you also worked with your husband, and I heard you tell a story there that I think you're speaking around here a little bit. But tell us about that block of trust and hiring and what that was like for you.

Okay, good. So, first of all, anybody out there, I'm always happy to tell people, don't work with your spouse if you want to maintain your relationship in the romantic category of life. Right. Nothing kills romance like that, as I'm sure you know. So actually, I didn't. You know what? I worked with Curtis from my husband. I worked with him from a coaching standpoint in that, you know, I came into his business as a person like you do, to come in and implement strategies. But I didn't actually, when we started, I was his client.

Yeah.

And then, you know, now, of course, I outsource because I'm interested in having a great romantic relationship. But I did work with my mother and I. And I tell you, don't. Don't work with anybody you're related to. It just, you know, it doesn't work. But when I work complicated. When you're. When you have a spouse that has a business, you basically live inside their business because they come home and report to you and all their decisions affect ultimately, you know, the business you have together called your life. And so I watched, you know, I watched him and I told the story at glc, but kind of like from a different perspective. But it was interesting because he was 18 when he first started his business, and a brilliant, you know, he was. He got 110% in a grade, if it was possible, in computer science. His dad had actually brought the Internet into the province, which is of course Canada. We have provinces. And he just knew so much more than the average person around web design, the Internet. By the time he was 18, he took the money that he wanted from school, incorporated himself straight away because he wasn't going to let anyone be his boss, and started his company. And he started out like an expert in the field. Within the first year, they'd already proven themselves as leaders. But something crazy was happening in his business because he would look at his colleagues that were less talented, definitely less savvy, and yet they were hiring in double faster than he was. And some of them, by the time their fifth year came around, were already selling for millions of dollars. And yet his business could not go beyond a certain threshold. And even though seven years in, they'd had reputable clients, they'd won awards and everything else, he could not get beyond a certain, a certain dollar. Not only that, but every time they had a huge rush, he'd hire people thinking, that's it, my company's finally expanded, only to contract, you know, months later when all of a sudden everything went into ebb and he was so frustrated and he'd come home and it was always the fault of something else. The market, you know, Apple killing Flash, you know, like, you name it, right? And, you know, what was important to understand was that we are, we are truly always led by our survival strategies and they shape our reality and they make it look like it's fact. And so when we finally sat down and I said, you know, write down the story. And this is such an important exercise for every person to do. Write down the story that you're telling yourself. You're telling yourself that, you know, this is what's wrong with the market, that people can't be trusted, that, you know, whatever it is. So he wrote down all of the negative beliefs that he was thinking in his mind. And it occurred, you know, it finally had to occur to him. You know, these thoughts were not the result of what was happening to him. It was actually what was creating his reality and ultimately his business. And when he finally turned everything around and just, you know, completely with a huge level of resistance, like, I'm not going to all of a sudden say, I trust people and I have the right people on board. It's ludicrous. But, you know, he had no choice at that point because it was getting to a place where it was just killing him, this business. You know, he put it. He put everything on paper, put it in the bathroom mirror, and like every day went in to shave and turned his back on it. And within six months of just you subconsciously reading this vision, he started to make some significant changes in his business, and major changes were evident. What people don't realize is that it's so uncomfortable to think a new thought, and yet you have to think differently, because Einstein says that you cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that created it. And then his business took a turn for the better and everything started to shift. And I want to tell people it's a fairy tale story. All you have to do is change your thinking and then your whole life changes. But there's always sort of the next level of lesson. So as his business changed and he hired the right people and finally things expanded, he finally had to let go of being the CEO, the accountant, the VP of sales, the marketing. He was literally every person in the company, giving people only a tiny little bit of delegation where he felt it was safe, always pulling things back. When he finally started to release the reins, that's when you have to realize, okay, I've hired people, I've given them all of this control, and now I see that there's been a ton of mistakes. Now you got to go back and say, okay, so partly it worked. And then the next thing I have to do is create better systems, stronger ways of monitoring people. So it's kind of like a learn as you go, but always remembering that as you start to change your thinking, your life starts to shift, and then you continue to make better changes. More navigation as you kind of move through it. Does it make any sense?

Yeah, totally makes sense. And let's tie this back then to something that'd be very familiar to followers of Rockefeller habits scaling up and the Gazelle's coaching method. So one of the things that we go to very early on in people decisions is the face tool, the functional Accountability chart exercise. And in that exercise, we look at who's running what in a business, right? And it's one of many that we do, but the leaders and especially the founder of the business that puts this on, we'll see again and again that their name or somebody's name is in many of the seats, and then they're not letting go and they're not aligning them. And there's some belief in the way there. And there are aspects of this that show up in every place of the business where your barriers as the leader get in the way. So we're really talking about leadership principles, principles here. So we'll go through that exercise in particular, and then we'll find a leader's name in six or seven of the functional areas and we'll say, okay, which one are you going to be left with in two years? And they really struggle to give it away, even if they've got a lot of people. So it seems really obvious if there's not a big team on hand. But sometimes even when there's a big team, the actually empowering, giving away and delegating things is really missing and is a struggle. And if that's one of your struggles or one of many, I mean, that's a key one for leaders. But there are many in different areas where you have a barrier, where you have a block, there's something here with it. And I think if I hear the points right, there's survival and then there's success, and then there's the conscious and the subconscious. And the things that you do subconsciously to survive are not the things that will allow you to thrive consciously. And the access to it is in language and reframing the way that you think. And I think it's great because there's lots of great work to be done here. You've got some stuff online, right? So tanyachernova.com free gift is the link and we'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. You've got a free chapter and a video, and I think you've got even a test there for some kind of an assessment tool. Is that right?

That's right. So people can go online and download the assessment tool and they can just follow the instructions to see what subconscious blocks that you might not be aware of are actually operating and creating the results you have. And then the free chapter shows you how to turn those things around. Because you could have, like my husband, you could have a business that's extraordinary and people love your product and think you're just the number one leader your business, but you're not making the money that you deserve or you're not creating the free time that you desire with your family and others. And so this is your opportunity to see what's truly blocking you in whatever area of your life and then start to turn things around. And from that perspective, Bill, like you said, you just get a new perspective. Like, from that new perspective, you can make changes. Because if knowledge was power, every book we'd read and every course we'd take would fix it. But the reality is, until we see things a different way, we cannot create new opportunities or strategies to do things differently.

Well, we deal with people, strategy, execution, and cash. And it starts with people and the first person. And the first thing is the leadership team is aligned. And the leadership team always begins with at least one leader who's ultimately accountable for the whole thing. And those people, unfortunately, are all human beings. And we all have these problems on a regular basis, unless you're sitting on the couch doing nothing. And I know our audience is not. So I thank you so much for being on the show today and for making these additional resources available. We will, of course, put them on the show. Notes and thanks so much for being with us.

Thank you so much for having me, Sam.