151: Elizabeth Crook — Why Build a Purpose-Driven Company?

Spike Lee said do the right thing. We hear a lot about purpose driven companies, triple bottom line, B corps, eco things, fair trade, all of that. But does it really matter to a scaling business? Why does it matter? What difference does it make? Is it good business? Aren't you just in the business to turn a profit for your investors, for yourself, for your family? What is the point of all of it and why does it make any difference? That's what today's show is all about. We've got lots of examples and situations, so listen in on the difference. Being a thoughtful, purpose centered business, working in balance can make to the actual business results. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is another coach, author, all around groovy gal, Elizabeth Crook. Elizabeth was on the show before to talk about her last book, but today we're talking about why it's smart for business to be a source for good, not just profit. That there's something in that. So we'll get more into why that's important and how to do that and why it matters to you and your business. But welcome to the show, Elizabeth.

Thanks, Bill. Glad to be back.

Awesome. So we've always had great conversations at our summits and things like that. Elizabeth was a scaling up coach for like 15 years and she did work in this world long before that and just brings it like a great history as both an executive entrepreneur and a coach. So I'm happy to have you on the show. You've always got interesting things to share with us.

Thanks.

And you're from the Nashville area and that's where you are today.

Yes, I am.

Awesome. Is it getting warm again there now?

It is getting warm and we are hosting, it seems like the whole world between the NFL Draft and the Music City Marathon and 10 other musical events that are happening always in Nashville.

I love Nashville for the music scene and just the whole city vibe. And it's on my list of places to take my wife this year for fun.

Well, let me know.

Yeah. So let's get into this a little bit. Why is it that that it's smart or important to be more than just make a buck?

Well, there's a long tradition beginning I guess with Milton Friedman, the famed economist who said that in effect, the business of America's business and that the world benefits when business focuses on making a profit. And that in fact used to be true. But today businesses have to look at many more results than just the money on the bottom line. But in pursuit of that, they also have to say what things are we wasting, what resources are we wasting, whether people or water or power or whatever. And the more you can be smart in how you use those, the more profit you will make in the absolute money sense. The second is as we experience shifts in our climate and shifts in resources, we have to also say what, what about our supply line? Is it stable? Are there going to be changes in agriculture and shipping and regulations that are going to create more expense for our company? And if we just focus on our own bottom line without looking at what we call the externalities, then there will eventually be a financial cost to our business.

Right. So I hear two things, right? The security and longevity, the sustainability of the business, but then also the long, the immediate profit, that there's often more profit. We had Raj Sisodia on from Conscious Capitalism talking about how they've measured companies that have sort of a greater focus than the immediate profit and that they actually are more profitable.

Exactly, yeah.

So talk to us about some. Well, before we share some examples of this, why don't you give folks a little bit more about your story, how you got into this, some of the work that you've done because I think it's interesting and element your interest and connection to this world of greater good business.

Well, it first started actually when I lived in Caracas, Venezuela in the 70s and 80s when it was a booming, most prosperous country in Latin America, unlike today. And I was growing a company that did consulting and training for mainframe installations. We were strapped with cash, as many young companies are. And I realized that there were women strapped for cash. As companies grow fast, they need more cash than they're generating. And so as I thought about how are we going to attract and retain the professionals that we needed, I realized there was an opportunity to do that which was good for the company as well as help women who had been IT specialists in the petroleum industry to have a part time job as they were leaving for pregnancy and childbirth, etc. So that was my first experience of saying how can we do something that's good and as well as benefit the business at the same time. When I came back to the States, I was on the board of the YWCA and we were chasing grant money and I said, and I read about a not for profit that had bought an ice cream store and I said what might we do? In order to generate income from non grant and contribution sources, we ended up creating a for profit partnership with the Dollar General Corporation. Before they went public, we Co owned two stores and we used the profits from that store to plow back into the community. But the second part that was very innovative is we trained put women in a welfare to work program and job skills training program. And part of that was working in the actual store. So it created just a wonderful partnership between two organizations that let us make money as well as serve our mission. My first for profit client was a real estate company. When I began working with them, I said, you know, you're not maximizing your profit. And the CEO looked at me and he said, this is not just about making money. This is about changing how real estate is practiced and about having an impact in our city. The company did very well and in fact just had a very successful exit. But one of their investors invited me to come to British Columbia to be on the faculty of something called the Social Venture Institute, which was a conference for mission driven entrepreneurs. This was 20 plus years ago. And all of a sudden I had found a tribe of people who were using the same language and who were incorporating all sorts of not only sustainability but social justice practices in their business as foundational pieces of how they did business in the world. And from there my interest and the sophistication of the whole field has grown geometrically since that time. It's now a mainstream topic. It's in Inc. Fast Company, Forbes, Fortune, you name it. Everyone's talking about sustainable or regenerative business as well as attracting a whole new new sector of investors and funding options.

Well, it seems to me right if you think about seems so obvious at the basic level there are folks who are like look, I just make a buck and that's my only thing and let the market decide and it'll reject it. No, and in fact it does. But the damage in the near term both to the environment and I don't just mean the like the, the earth environment, I mean the whole world around us, the people, the communities, the systems, the customer base, right? That's the whole environment is done if we don't do that. So if you take advantage of your workforce, right, you squeeze them for every nickel, you mistreat them because you can, because that's the practice scenario or whatever, then before too long they will leave or they will riot and burn your place down or any number of other things. They'll undermine your brand's credibility in the world through protests or you know, I mean some companies have had to deal with suicides in their manufacturing force. And then there's a whole question about whether or not it's above or below the norm of the region. Like, is that even a conversation that we should really be having? I don't know. But look, if you have to deal with that and address that. On the other hand, if you're thinking about, are we paying a wage that lets people live a decent standard, that lets them educate their children, that doesn't entrap them in this work, but that creates opportunity for them to learn and grow and contribute and do meaningful work and that kind of thing. And any meaningful, any work, I think can be meaningful. It's so easy to find a connection to the work we do in the broader sense. If you trash your environment, then you run out of your earth environment, then you trash your ability to operate in the place nobody wants to live there. And you end up with like Beijing's smog problems where they have to sort of paper over things when the Olympics come to town, and, and they end up with health issues that then you have. I mean, all of these things have ramifications. If you think about doing business in a sustainable way, treating people and customers well and that kind of thing, it just is more secure than squeezing everything and everyone burning through it and buying yourself, you know, a supercar, a Ferrari or something. Right, right.

And there's so many examples. You know, I think one of the people who I heard speak early was a man named Gary Hershberg who founded Stonyfield Farm Yogurt, which was subsequently sold to Danone and then they sold back again. However, his focus was on organic farming. And he said, when we farm organically, we use fewer resources, it's less expensive and we get better products. And if we could create economic incentive for everyone to convert to organic, what would that mean? Well, initially there were people saying, when things were very polarized, oh, are you going to sell to Walmart, you know, your hippie, dippy, super clean, super green organic yogurt? And he said, of course I'm going to sell to Walmart because if we can create a demand for more organics, then farmers will actually make the conversion. We are no longer, I believe, in that polarized of good guys and bad guys. If you think about Walmart, for example. And of course there's certainly issues around their model and the competition that they represent for small mom and pop stores. But they have probably done as much as anybody to set standards for packaging and waste for all kinds of metrics associated with waste of energy that really are leaders in many ways in their sustainability program. If you look at, there's a company called Living Greens Farm and they said, in effect, they have sustainability at the core of what they do. We're not making any more land. There is a crush to provide clean water for the number of people we have. And so what could we do to address that? And the man who started this company has developed technologies for vertical farming, if you're familiar with that. So it takes 100% less land, 99% less water, and it reduces the amount of shipping of product. So that's something where creating a more sustainable business model is at the very core of what they do. At one time, 20 or 30 years ago, responsible businesses were those who took some of their profits and gave them to charities and not for profits, or who did what was then called cause marketing. In other words, Coke might be sponsoring young athletes, but it was not a change in how they operated. Whereas today, they're more sensitive about their use of water and how it gets shipped and what are the points where there is waste in their system.

Right. So the lack of waste is a sustainability practice, and that makes good and obvious financial sense as well.

Absolutely.

How could we be more efficient? What could we do to use less water, less land, less packaging? I mean, I get irritated today. I know why the world of packaging evolved, and I certainly love thoughtfully designed packaging. But when you get something that's a box inside a box with another thing inside another thing designed to be shown in a retail store that I'm hardly going in anymore.

Right.

Then you just have to, like, wonder, what's up with that.

There are also examples of companies. For example, there's a company called a Linker. It's a fairly new company, and the woman who started it is a Dutch woman. She was concerned. Her mother said, I'm never going to be on a walker. And yet she saw people who had mobility challenges. She designed and now manufactures a. It's almost like a scooter, like a big yellow tricycle. That creates opportunities for people with mobility issues to be at the height of people who are walking. So they are not socially isolated. It lets them exercise their legs, but it also provides support for them as they move through museums or airports or whatever. So that she built her business around accessibility. By the same token, more and more businesses are saying, how are we going to make either our workplace or our products accessible for people who have some kind of limitation? And the limitation may be an educational one. It may be one related to their history. Increasingly, we're seeing companies who say, how can we take people who are felons, who have been incarcerated and help them transition to the workforce. Given the boom in construction, there are not enough people in the trades. Can we transform some of those people who maybe were incarcerated at a young age? And there's certainly a program in Tennessee that begins to teach them skills of plumbing, electricity, being electrical, or electricians and carpentry. So again, accessibility, in a broader sense of that word, are they doing it because it's the right thing to do? Well, yes, but they're also doing it because they need workers and they're saying, how can we find a new source of workers? So they're solving their business problem while also contributing to a more positive result. From a social accessibility point of view.

I think that's a really great thing to think about. How do we do something in balance that creates value and that's delivered in a way that is not at odds with something? Right. It's a win win worldview versus a win lose worldview.

Exactly. And you know, again, it used to be the main lever for change was let's take our profits and give them to something. But today we see lots of different levers that businesses are applying. Number one, it may be employment to people who have had employment challenges, it may be incentives for better behavior. I've recently met a man at a conference for impact investors and impact entrepreneurs. So the language is changing. It's not just about social responsibility. It's about creating an impact in the world as well as on the bottom line. And has developed a program that incentivizes concert goers to rent and or reuse their plastic cup so that they don't end up on the ground. And they go, they pay $3, they get to use the cup. It's a promotional cup. If they bring it back, they get their $3 back. And if not, then they get to keep the cup. But because it has a memory value to it, they're less likely to throw it on the ground. And the statistics, the follow up have been tremendous in terms of just cleaning up the waste. And if the cups are turned back, they can be remelted and recycled to be used again. Storytelling is also a hugely powerful lever because if you can't imagine something, you know, if you think back to the four minute mile or somebody breaking a record, we can't imagine it until it happens. And then once it happens, there are lots of people who end up running faster or jumping higher because they know that it's possible. So I worked beginning years ago with a group and a funder in Vancouver. And part of what they did was tell stories so that people could come to believe that they could get returns, financial returns, by investing in socially responsible entrepreneurs. So the storytelling is an important one. Another one is.

Wait, wait, wait. I think storytelling is really valuable. But, but let me make sure I understand. You're talking about storytelling as creating a new picture for the future with a story, right?

Yes, creating a new picture as well as helping people begin to think and.

Different, bring it to life. Yeah. So I think here's something to underscore there. Like there's a lot of different ways of looking at leadership. Right. Aspects of leadership, qualities of leadership, stages of leadership. There's a lot said about leadership and we deal with a lot in sort of throughout all of our work and scaling up. But it does seem to me that in the win, lose and win, win, there's another aspect of leadership that's being spoken to. It's leading for something or leading against something. And leading against something is pretty easy. We see it all the time in politics. So I don't vote for that guy or that gal. They're terrible. Or you know, don't do business with that company. They're terrible. That's. And, and we see that in a lot of cause related things against like let's organize a boycott against them or. And that's leading against something and then the other one is leading for something. Like I have this vision, you know, I have a dream that kind of. And I'm trying to engage people in a new picture for the future. That's different, distinct, but it is, it's not for my rights or past baits. It's forward looking and for a particular vision, it's leading for something. It seems a little bit trickier to do, but it is. You know, it's like where hope lives and that kind of thing. It's. It's creating a vision for something then pulling people to work together for something rather than to fight something back.

Yes, I agree. And I think increasingly and certainly I think with Gen X and with millennials, I think that the notion of, I think the notion of being against what was certainly originated at least with the people who are still on earth with baby boomers. You know, we're against the war, we're against this, we're against that. I think as that thinking has matured, it is moving toward this is what we're for, this is what we're promoting, this is what we are inviting people to participate in instead of just rebelling against. We are affirming what we're for.

Yeah. And I think you could take almost any issue and express it from a different we're against this, we're for that. And when the focus is on for something, we're for freedom versus we're against rules, you change the tone of the whole thing.

Yes. Yes.

And it becomes an and versus an or kind of a conversation.

Yes. And I think that increasingly, what I would call thoughtful and forward thinking and looking CEOs of businesses are saying, what are all the ways in our business that we can reflect our best selves and our best thinking about members of a community, whether it's our local business community or our community in the world? I recently heard Blair Elliston Kellerston, who is the CEO of Traditional Medicinals, which is a good sized company, hundreds of millions in revenue on the west coast in Seattle, and they produce medicinal teas. It's not a young company and it was started, you might arguably say, by hippies. It has hippie herbalists, but it has moved beyond that. And instead of just saying here's some herbs to soothe your throat or make your milk flow if you're a nursing mother, they're looking not only at their products, they're also looking at their supply chain. Where are these herbs grown? How can they support the growing communities? How can the community of growers, how can they support those communities in wiser use of their resources? How can they share more environmentally sound growing practices? They also, for example, in all of their production facilities, they're 100% renewable energy. In addition, they provide scholarships. In the growing communities, one of the big focuses of their work is the education of girls. Because if you think about it, once you educate girls, then they have an outsized impact. It's a point of leverage in intervening for families, towns, et cetera. And also part of what they do, in addition to outright grants through their profits, is they tell stories. And the stories, again, tell companies how they can be different. So they're pulling on a lot of those levers. And I think that more and more CEOs who are concerned about being good citizens are saying, what are all the different ways that we can create an impact, a positive impact, than just giving money to a charity?

Yeah, and frequently the folks who operate well intentioned things operate less innovatively, less efficiently, and sometimes the social venture crowd will do stuff in a little more innovative fashion. I worked with one nonprofit that sought to do something good for kids, but when you looked at it, at the end of the day, it was so inefficient, it was far better just to give the money to the folks and eventually that they realized that wasn't going to work and they shut it down because they couldn't get the efficiency beyond that, which is I think a great thing in a larger sense, even though all the people remain committed to the end result with the kids.

But the sophistication in both the social enterprise and in the business sector around using business as a force for good has multiplied by many fold in the past two decades as well as among the understanding among investors.

Where are we cooperating? Where are we doing something like that? Yeah.

Yes. And it was impressive at the conference where I was a speaker a couple of weeks ago that some of the sponsors included big names that we associate with mainstream investments, things like Bain Capital and kpmg. We see increasingly funds that focus just on impact investments. So those people like Align Capital Builders Fund, Big Path SJF was certainly in Durham, North Carolina. They were certainly one of the early ones that was doing venture funding and producing venture returns. But they said there must be a social equity component built within the business. Also. Another area where I have done significant work are people who have significant wealth and want to use that wealth in a more impactful way. So there are a whole set of advisors and advisory firms, family office firms that are catering to the. Those investors who want to make an impact with their money.

Yeah. What's your legacy? What are you working on exactly? Or what legacy are you building?

Yes, yes. And you know, in many. There's a group in Denver called Green Alpha and one of the founders speaks very compellingly about why are we investing money in sectors that are destroying the environment when and then taking the money that we make from those investments to fix and remediate the very problems that they caused. Wouldn't it make more sense to invest, to spend more, for example, in renewable energy than in spending more on fossil fuel energy? How can we, you know, and so I mean, I found that very compelling.

Right. Well, you talk about the home builder as well. And you know, if you're building an office building or renovating or building homes or renovating your home, if you make it more efficient, then you need less energy in the first place. You create more value for the homeowner, the building owner, because there's less expense involved in all of that. And that's an equal part of that whole equation. Right. Doing the work to make something more that might cost more, might take more engineering and innovation in the larger sense, but then it also produces savings and spinoffs like that. So that the balance, the innovation, the whole cycle of efficiency improvements, energy production, employment harmony, in my last business, I ran a business with my wife, a jewelry brand. And I came in, I'm like, okay, I want to grow this thing to hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And as we started to grow and find something, she became troubled. She's like, oh, I just, you know, it's, it's precious metals and gemstones from the earth and then people making them and is it really all good? And do we need to consume more stuff? And are we. Don't people have everything they need already? And why are we selling more stuff? And it became troubling to her at a deep level, right? So I said, oh, I'm going to go and work on this thing. I'm going to come up with a way to have the both. So we create things, why are we creating them? So we created a purpose statement to empower women's self expression and celebrate their beauty. So that was the kind of thing that, that we're at work on. And then we started to look at that supply chain. I realized, oh my God, we're not going to solve this all alone. It became troubling. And then I began to doubt that like, oh, the mining activities are so damaging, maybe we should just not do it. And as I talked to more folks, they said, no, you really, you don't want to stop at all because it is a source of income and livelihood for millions of people. What you want to do is bring equity and good practices to all of it so that we're not trashing rivers and we're giving people good, safe work and improving all of improving their lives and all that. So we began to work on places that we could source materials and manufacturing in a fairer, more balanced way. And then we created a new line and moved our whole line to that. But it took a great deal of work. And I realized that we weren't going to be able to do it on our own. In fact, we had to engage and start and participate in whole industry movements to do that.

And just the questions that you began to ask yourselves about how does this fit into a larger worldview are questions that a generation or two ago would never have occurred to people right?

Now here's the thing though, from a business standpoint, right? Dollars and cents, euros, pounds, whatever you want to count, it mattered a great deal there as well. So our product sold and it defended the sale of a hefty premium, right? There was a message, there was more meaning behind it, and it sold better in both up and down markets. The next thing is that our engagement of our entire supply chain was greatly improved. So people were happier to do business with us in that period. We got more effort from folks. You talk about getting that extra. Like Aubrey Daniels talks about getting that extra effort from people. We engaging the purpose and those practices. We got more production out of people and then in other ways as well, like waste. So one of the ways that we went to work on recycling things is that in the production, the manufacturing of the jewelry, there was a great deal of manufacturing waste. So silver trimmings and things like that that would need to be reprocessed before they could be put back into finished goods. Well, those would go out to very dirty places where we were dirty manufacturing reprocessing facilities. And we created our own instead, which was cleaner. And so we could reuse that waste Instead of sending it off to a dirty reprocessor. We did it in a cleaner, better fashion so that we weren't polluting the local environment. And everybody felt good about that too. But it also cost less in the end.

Great story.

If it saved us a great deal than to have to work with another part.

Right. That's just. It's a great story, Bill. It so illustrates how making the right decision was also the smart decision.

That's really great. So what are the steps that folks should take or should think about? What are the key questions to think about? What? Give us some. Some takeaways.

I think there. I think that. Well, first, there is something called a B corporation, which is probably less than 10 years old, and orchard advisors was the first B corp in the state of Tennessee. We have not renewed just because other things got in the way, I'm embarrassed to say. But B Corporation, if you look it up, it is a certification that is rigorous about how you make decisions about the resource, your business practices. And if people go to B corp or to B lab, they can find out more information about becoming certified in that. And just going through the process will awaken people to opportunities to run their businesses in a more regenerative way than they have in the past.

So even if you don't become a B corp, there are ideas there to draw from.

Absolutely, there are ideas because it will have you asking. They will ask you questions that had not occurred to you. The second is if you think about what your top issues are in your business and sort of write those down, then you can say, would any of these be responsive to something that would make our business, that would contribute either to reducing waste or to increasing accessibility or. Or to some other social good? Because many Many times people can solve a business problem if they will open their mind to doing things in a more sustainable or just way. And what you described in your business was a great example of that. That you got extra effort from people, that you reduced the cost in how you handled your waste. And so again, it's sort of saying, oh, where are the opportunities in our business if we think more broadly about it?

Yeah, yeah, totally get that. So, so it's thinking about the balance, the harmony, the sustainability. If you think about that, that takes left effort. Effort, whether human or energy or whatever costs money. There's waste involved in that. Waste is money and time and system degradation.

Right.

There's a loss and all of that.

And then publications, you know, conscious, Conscious company is certainly one. Look for magazines or online resources and just begin to open your eyes and you're thinking about some things you might be able to do in your business as first steps toward becoming more responsible and more responsive and then proactive in how you treat resources of all kinds. Instead of just looking at money as the only resource, how you treat every other resource in your business.

So there's the supply chain, there's your distribution chain, there's your labor force, there's the energy you use, consume and produce and then there's the way that you run the company itself.

Exactly, exactly. And I once worked with a heavy manufacturing company and they were running out of capacity in the US and they said we have to go to China. And I knew that they were a company that was very family oriented, it was a five generation old company and that they were incredible citizens. But if I had suggested to them that they need to do anything sustainable, they would have looked at me like I had lost my mind. And so when they came back from China, I said, so how'd it go? And I said, they said, oh, it was terrible. It was, it was a hellhole. And I said, so how does that fit with your values? And they all just blanched and said, oh my gosh, we have to do something because we can't let people making our product work in conditions like that because it is counter to everything we stand for.

For.

It was a powerful moment for them and a powerful moment for me. In remind, if you talk to most companies about their values, if they go back to where their values are, the values will actually lead them to being a more regenerative company.

And we're back to values again, right? If your values are up. We used to when we would identify and vet production, manufacturing, supply sources, we would go visit them and tour them. And even if they put on a pretty face for you for the day, they cleaned up and dressed nice for the day, you could tell things would feel off. They would in fact literally smell off in a place that didn't create a good work environment. So if everybody focused on putting on a good face, they would sometimes miss the smells that would give away the problems. You could tell, okay, that process over there isn't working right. It's producing some kind of waste that makes it hard to breathe in here. So all of these, you could tell thing you could look at the smiles on the people's faces and that there's a certain cultural amount to that. But, but relatively speaking. Right, right.

It's like walking into a company that has dead plants. It makes you wonder how they're treating every other part of their, their business, their people and their equipment if they can't water their plants.

So where is your business unsustainable? Where is it out of balance? Where is it pushing on something that is going to get you in trouble down the road? Those are the kinds of questions to ask. Where are things? Where do things need smoothing out? Where is there real flow? You think about flow, you think about water flowing swiftly, but not turbulent, moving. That is the feeling of efficiency that we're looking for in the business. And anything that is turbulent, that's rough, that's not working, where there's vibration, where there's all of that negative vibrations. Right. That's all the places where you're losing some money and where you're putting your systems at risk. So even if you're not losing money right now, you're pushing it, things could blow up on you later.

Yes. It's also looking what are all of the resource inputs to your business and how can you make those more efficient or reduce the cost or risk? I worked with a food producer in the Central Valley in California and their product demanded huge amounts of water, the processing of it. And so they very quickly put in a gray water processing system so that they could, they could reuse vast quantities of the water that didn't require fresh water for their production. And it saved it, not only was good for the environment, it saved them literally millions of dollars.

That's outstanding.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's about a show for us. If you want to find out more about Elizabeth, go to orchard advisors.com. we'll put that in the show notes you can find. We'll put link to her book as well, her last book and so on. But if you'd like to find out more orchard advisors.com of course. We bring a new show like this to you every week on something to do with scaling your business and your leadership in the process and all the things that are of interest related. So subscribe wherever you get your podcast so that you get them updated. You can also go and search the whole back catalog including all the show notes and the downloads of the tool tools, the worksheets and exercises related to scaling up to get your team scaling up effectively@scalingcoach.com and so you'll find all the past stuff there plus the free tools. We've even got a deal and a book there. If you pay the shipping and handling, you can get it for free the Scaling at book. So thanks again for joining us and thanks again Elizabeth for coming on the show today.

Thanks Bill.

Talk to everyone next time. All right, I want to give special thanks to the original growth guru, Vern Harnish. This show is produced by Crystal Carson with audio production at Podfly Productions and audio editing by Albert Burge. The show notes are compiled by Ian Kodina and proofread by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of our show today, please share it with somebody else. Pass it along. Share the love. Go ahead and like it and subscribe so you don't miss out on next week's episode. Let us know the parts that you loved with an email to infocalingcoach.com and if we can help you with anything. Same email, infocalingcoach.com Let us know if you need to find a coach in your area. If you're wondering if it's even right for you at this time, you'll find. You'll find us@info scalingcoach.com and all our things@scalingcoach.com our web backlog. Thanks again for listening. Keep scaling up.