159: Nick Egan — The Art of Transforming Limitations

Well, we all want new results. We want new, better, more, faster. We want to accomplish things for whatever reason, and yet we have these limitations and blocks. But what if there was a way to shift it all? What if the limitations, the blocks, were not as real as you thought they were? And there were some simple approaches? That's what today's show is all about. How to find, discover the essential shifts that allow you to break through to new results, whether for yourself in your role or for your business as a whole. Listen in as we talk to the author of a new book on shift. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is a coach and author of performance coach, business coach and author of a new book, Shift, Nick Egan. So Shift is the art of transforming limitations. I thought, well, my wife immediately was like, oh, I love the COVID of the book. And she's like, oh, I like the title, I like the COVID Must be good already. But it's true. Often these things grab us right away. Shift, the art of transforming limitations is what we're going to talk about today. So welcome to the show, Nick.

Thanks, Bill. It's great to be here. And just a quick note about the COVID I was adamantly opposed to doing that cover and I was talking to one of my editors and she said, okay, yeah, you're right, that's probably not a good idea. And then secretly gave it to the designers and that ended up being the COVID that we went with. So it was fortuitous.

Oh, that's hilarious. I think it's a great cover and it stands out. I'm, yeah, totally happy with it. I think it's great. Yeah. Thank you. You should do. You know, sometimes a title can make a huge, huge difference, right? The title, the pitch or something. If you think about, like, you know, 101 life hacks. Right. Okay, that's not a book that's going to do very well, but the four hour work week is saleable.

Right, Right.

So sometimes your title and your cover can make a big, big difference. And you think about if you dress wrong or walk into the room weird. Right? Like it's that first impression kind of thing.

Yeah, exactly. Although I've definitely been guilty of walking into rooms in a weird way many times.

Yes. And then you have to recover.

Well, yeah, exactly.

So. And you can sometimes. But God, it's a lot more work, folks, for our listeners. So Nick has a background in a degree in psychology and has studied Tibetan Buddhist culture and comes from a family of entrepreneurs. And so as he has been working in coaching and wrote this book, it's really about this idea of shifting something. So we're going to talk about more about that in a minute. But you know, he's traveled the world, studied other cultures and things like that, and brings some of that to the work of business performance. So I love the title and the premise. Tell us about a little bit more about your background. So you live up in Petaluma now?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And where are you from originally? Or from Petaluma or somewhere?

Well, no, not from Petaluma. So I'm from Northern California originally. And I grew up until I was, I guess about fourth grade up in the Valley in Chico. And then I moved. We moved my family, they're multifamily and commercial real estate developers. And so we moved up to the coast, up to the Mendocino coast, when I was fairly young. And it's actually I lived right on the border of what Obama later made a national monument. There's a lighthouse up there. So I like to tell people that I would go trespassing in this national monument even before it was created. And so it was a. It was an amazing place to grow up. Very small town, 500 people. And then I moved to Sonoma county fairly early on and then done some brief stints in Asia beyond that.

Nice. And so what is it that led you to writing this book? Give us some of that background on.

How this come to be. It's funny because I didn't really realize how much my upbringing had impacted me until maybe about 10 years ago. And like I said, I grew up in this family of entrepreneurs.

You blame your parents for everything like that.

I'm starting to now, though. Any success, they get the blame, right? Yeah. And so I remember at the time, you know, we had to stuff envelopes, my brother and I, and send them out to try to get leads. And just we really saw, I think firsthand the daily grind that goes into making a successful business. And so I think that really colored my view of the world from very, very early on. So much so that I didn't even realize it was a bit different. You know, I never really had the desire to kind of work the traditional 9 to 5 job. And instead I saw how consuming it can be to be your own business owner, to be your own boss, and that it wasn't a 9 to 5, it's a, you know, 6am to 8pm sometimes or midnight it can be. But the rewards are also great. And so that was my early, early business experience. And then from there, I always had a real interest in understanding how the mind works. And by mind, I mean kind of capital M. So, I mean, emotions. I mean, our experience of the world, the stories that we tell ourselves. And so I decided in undergrad to pursue psychology and thinking that I would get a lot of the answers that I was seeking. Through psychology. Yeah, right, exactly. I know it sounds. Sounds what? It was, like, naive at the time. And I had a good experience. I learned quite a lot. But then by the end of it, the track that I was on was really like the counseling track. And I got really clear that I wasn't as interested in helping people heal from wounds. I was more interested in helping people succeed kind of beyond their wildest dreams.

And how do you feel about that decision?

I feel very good about that decision, actually. I mean, some of my closest friends are therapists, and they're doing great work. But that's, you know, for me, that wasn't what lit me on fire. And so I left psychology and decided to go into philosophy and religion and sort of got my master's degree at that point. And during that time, you know, I had the opportunity to travel to Asia and spend quite a few months there. I took a semester off and really became interested in especially, like, Asian philosophy and the applications therein. And so then I went on to get my PhD in Buddhist studies. And through that, I ended up leading tours to the Himalayan region, oftentimes focusing on art and culture, but sometimes focusing on philosophy. And even, I would put it now like a kind of mild coaching, you know, getting people from where they are now, getting them unstuck into a place of flourishing. And so that was my journey through that and through kind of the melding of what now is termed positive psychology and the Asian perspective on things, which isn't necessarily dissimilar. I came to essentially writing this book, which I think blends the two in a way that is very digestible for people.

I'd love to hear a little bit about these blocks. What is it that you would say? I don't know, Maybe. Or maybe you could start. You had a great story about rescuing a yak, and that might be a great place to begin the conversation. We talk about what limits us and like that. That you. That you lay out in the book.

Yeah. So the first thing is recognizing that most of the time, our experience of the world is very much filtered through our own story about it. Right. And most of my clients, and most people, I would say, don't really realize that, like, they're. Forget about even choosing which story they're going to view the world through. They don't even realize that there is a story that's there. But that's kind of the first step in recognizing these blocks. And then things become workable. Because if you're just going from this position of like, well, this is how things are. This is the truth, capital T, of the experience, then you don't really have any wiggle room. You know, there's no possibility to change things. If you want to change them. That's assuming that you do. And this really stood out to me. One time I was traveling. This was in Tibet. This was in western Tibet. And this wasn't on a. I wasn't leading a tour. I was with a buddy of mine who likes to do a lot of mountaineering. This was over a decade ago. And in western Tibet, there are very, very few trees. And so you're in essentially the high desert for a long time. And there was this really a heavy rain, flash rain that came, and there was a flash flood. And there was this baby yak, actually, that was stuck in this deep mud. It was just silt that essentially the water hits. It becomes like quicksand. And it was stuck there. And it's freezing cold. You know, you're up 15,000ft even in the. Even in the valleys. And we were talking to our driver and saying, hey, you know, let's stop and help. And he said, no, there's no. It's impossible. We couldn't possibly do that. And he was really. He was adamant that it just couldn't be done. So much so that it sticks out in my mind because my buddy and I were kind of conspiring and saying, no, I think we can do that. And so it just became this almost like, test of wills. And so eventually we went out and we pulled over and started helping it. And sure enough, like, out of nowhere, I mean, these nomadic yak critters came and started helping us. And within, I would say it was a long process, maybe an hour of kind of digging out the yak and bringing it out. There's this huge sucking sound. And it got free from the mud, and all the nomads were there, and they kind of cheered a little bit. And then actually, one of the guys, he was. I'm still unclear as to whether he owned it or whether he was just, like, giving us some facts, but he was basically saying, like, look, that's one person's livelihood for a full year. And so it wasn't an insubstantial thing. And the piece that I take away from that is the driver was so adamant that it couldn't be done. And we were kind of adamant that it could be done. And then it was, who do we need to call on? What resources do we need to gather to make this possible? Because he was right, the driver's right. We couldn't have done it ourselves, but just kind of almost magically these other people helping appeared out of it. And so a lot of my clients, when the coaching gets to a certain point, it becomes really clear that you can't just do it on your own. And who are the allies that you're going to call on to bring this into a reality?

I think there's a really good thing there. What I hear you pointing to is that we all have this notion that something is. So something is real and it's real that it can't be helped. It's real that it can be helped. And neither of them is necessarily or objectively true. Yours may be by yourself without any help, or his view that it can't be helped is. Is true without tapping into additional resources or some other breakthroughs. And yours that it could is maybe right or not right, depending on a whole lot of other things that they're all just possible ways of looking at it. Yet we become convinced of it. And when you think about the start of a business. So quite a few of our listeners started their business. They're entrepreneurs, and many of them had no particular business or background in the thing. They just started something because they didn't know any better is a common thing that you hear entrepreneurs say about their business years later, after it's been successful. And even if it's not been successful. Why'd you get into that? Well, I don't know. I didn't know any better. And we attempt things that we didn't think or know were possible when other people would know because we had in our mind the idea of something, something could be. But we equally have in our mind that things are not possible from time to time, which leads to that being stuck, right? No, I really am stuck. You don't know. You don't understand how it is people.

Will say, right, yeah, no, I think that's a good, really good point. And I'm thinking about some of my clients in particular that are very successful, successful business owners. And oftentimes where they get stuck is around being able to let go of the craft aspect, what I call the craf aspect, and being able to scale up and the title of your show. And in order to do that, it takes a little bit of, well, confidence and also just, I guess, the willingness to disengage from that and to get to the next level. Because it's easy to fill up your days with these busy tasks in the service of the craft. But in reality, you should be working on your business, not for your business.

Absolutely. So what's the talk to us about this business of story, story and narrative some more? Yeah, client story or.

I love the idea of the kind of the filtered reality. And, you know, coming from a little bit of a philosophy background, I don't necessarily make claims as to whether or not there is a one final end true story, like, oh, the real thing, whatever that is. But what I do think is that we can all get better at exercising this muscle of possibility, like, what's possible from a different perspective and how might somebody tell that story? So what's the story? So first, what's the story that we're telling ourselves about what's possible and what's not possible? And then what might be another story? And then now here's the kicker. Here's the big coaching juice. It's who do we need to be to make that story the reality? And so when you do that, it opens up all kinds of possibilities for people. And it's almost like a somatic exercise, a physical exercise where you want people to get up, to feel it, to walk around the room, to sense these different ways of being in the world, because oftentimes these are things that we have access to only occasionally. And so a lot of the coaching that I do is helping business owners not just have that, like, flash of insight or those days of flow, but be able to tap into that essentially on demand, you know, and create ways of being in the world that can help them open up different possibilities.

So I was at a client location this morning observing and critiquing a whole bunch of their daily huddles. A larger employer and was looking at the different daily huddles by the time I got to the senior leaders team and they were looking at and talking about different business events and results. And the CEO kept asking, well, what's the story you make up about that? And the team had developed this language. I don't know where they started using it or when they started to use it, but the story you make up about that, they were calling it specifically in that way. And I thought it was really powerful because we make up stories all the time about things. And I Don't know if it's true for everyone else, but I noticed for me that I make them up pretty unconsciously. Like, you know, I just. I have this notion that something probably is some. Like, I have an explanation. It's a story about something. There's often a lot of projection in it, you know. Well, that's probably because of this or that. But until I stop to think about it, I'm not even very aware of or conscious of that I made it all up. Yeah, it's my invention and supposition that it is the way that it is.

That's exactly it. And that's a great story about your client. Because what that does is that allows them then to have different kinds of, what I'll call them, debates instead of arguments without becoming entrenched. Because if it's like, hey, we're going to argue about the story that you're making up, and I'm going to argue my position about the story I'm making up. I'm not quite as attached to it versus, like, I'm right and you're wrong. And if we follow your way, the business is doomed. And if we follow my way, it's going to go straight through the roof. So I love that it sets up that space. But what you're saying is essentially these many, or if not all of these stories are subconscious or unconscious. And I think that's exactly right. And that's where the real power for business leaders, especially of a kind of mindfulness practice. Now, I don't mean you need to necessarily sit down and meditate, but you need to bring a certain level of awareness to how you're perceiving the world. And the best way that I know how to do that is through having some kind of even just brief centering practice, because it gives you this space. Again, it's like if you're constantly being run by your assumptions and your stories and your emotions, there just isn't the space to maneuver that you have to have as a nimble business leader to get to the next level.

Well, you know what immediately comes to mind? You've studied some Eastern practices, so you probably have come across the story of the blind man and the elephant at some point.

Yeah, it's a great story.

And I use that. And I use an illustration of that endlessly with my teams. Because we all have a view of reality that we're sure is the way that it is because we're reasonable, intelligent, mostly sane people and we look at stuff and we're like, no, it really Is a tree trunk. No. Really? So the story for listeners, if you haven't heard it. Well, I don't know the story very well, but they bring like five blind men to meet an elephant, to see an elephant, quote, unquote, to see an elephant for the first time. And they walk them up to the elephant and each of them sees with their hands, right? They take a hold of some part of the elephant and they describe it differently. All of them completely truthful and completely accurate given their quote unquote perspective or point of view. So one calls it leathery and the other calls it like a tree, and the other says it's like a snake. And I forget what the. You know, all the different. So tail, ear, leg, trunk, like that. And. And that's so true of us. And. And we'll. We'll start wars. We'll build companies and tear down companies on the basis of our view of things are the way they are. And yet they're only true because we're not generally lying about in these kinds of situations. But they're only true from one perspective and that we're not necessarily seeing all of it, right?

Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, I think it's almost like a qualified certainty, right. That we're certain about it, but only within the framework that we've experienced it directly. Would be similar to, like, that the story of the elephant. But I think that's the leader's job. The leaders, really, the primary job is to be able to, number one, be able to see the totality of the elephant as much as possible, and then to understand the different kind of partialities that people are working with. And very often, I mean, the classic one that I've heard a lot is sort of like sales and products, right? It's like, oh, only our product would move if only the sales team would get off their butts and go do their job. And then you have the sales guys that are like, oh, our product would move if only the product development guys would listen to us and put in the features and benefits that we want them to use. And so it is definitely the leader's job to say, look, if we are committed to getting to the next level of this business, what do we need to adopt and what do we need to let go of? And so I love that the example that you gave of the leader saying, what's the story that you're telling yourself about that? I think it's great.

Yeah. So you have to let go. Like the blind man has to let go of their Particular reality, the trunk, the snake, the whatever, and move. To see more, to explore, to consider, to embrace other perspectives.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm thinking about early on, one of my first clients was this. He was a winemaker. It's a great winemaker. He made good wine. And he had set up essentially his own winery. And he was having a heck of a time dealing with all the things that weren't winemaking. And it's like, well, the skills that got you to the point, you know, being a good winemaker are not the skills that are going to get you to the point of being a successful wine brand owner. And so being able to own that and to look into that deeply. I mean, I've seen far too many people just go down, go down with a ship because they're not able to let go of that story, whatever it is, you know, that I just need to make better wine, so to speak. It's usually. It's usually not. I just need to make better wine.

Well, right. There's a market for everything.

Exactly.

Somebody will buy vinegar, right?

Lots of people, actually. The lowest common denominator.

Lots of people buy vinegar. And there's somebody for a very expensive bottle, and there's somebody for a cheap, everyday bottle. There's everything in between. Right. On the 4th, we had wine out of cans.

Yeah, exactly. Although I've heard some of those canned wines are coming up. They're getting better.

They're coming up. Yeah. We needed something for the boat, but it's really great. So talk to us about one of your client roadblocks and how that went. What you did share one of those with us?

Yeah. So I'm thinking about in particular, I have a client, he's an entrepreneur, and he really, you know, successful business going great by every. By every measure. But really what it came down to was like a lack of time that he had to deal with the strategic thinking that was necessary to get the business, not just the business to the next level, but the efficiency within the business to the next level. They weren't having a hard time getting business. And so really just getting to the point where it's number one, recognizing that you can continue to work harder and kill yourself, become what I call the work harder martyr. I'm working so hard. I'm first one in, last one out, and all that, which is fantastic and necessary on occasion, but not necessarily sustainable. And figuring that out and allowing yourself the permission to delegate tasks to your team, that's the first thing. And then the second thing is to really give Yourself the space to be able to think strategically about what the next level is within the business. Now, it's interesting because working as a coach, most people that are my clients, they already have a notion that they need to do that. Right. They're already carving an hour or a day, couple hours or whatever it is a week to be able to talk to me, but to be able to get them to let go that the next step to where they can really think strategically and then, you know, set the business on fire to get to the next level, that's a whole different story. So I'm already kind of working with these. These warm clients, but I found that most everyone that I work with, they'll hit a ceiling at some point, and they need to figure out how to. They're going to find the space to be able to figure out what they want their story to be for the next chapter.

Yeah, that leap and that gap. So you said something earlier that I thought was really interesting in all this. So we begin with story view. So we have a challenge, we have a goal, and we're struggling with some aspect of reaching the goal. And then we have a story about it. And my wife shared with me a story. Now, I'm not going to recreate it well either, but the recurring line was, how do you know? And in each point of the story, as the one character relayed the part to the other, the particular challenge or setback, the question was, well, how do you know? So how do you know something's a bad thing? Right. We have something bad happen to us. You've heard the phrase we. One door closes, another opens. That notion that something bad happened, Then we have a story about what it means or an explanation of it, and then that particular perspective limits us. But if you are to reframe it or rewrite the story, where that is the pivotal moment, where everything turned. Then you said earlier there's, who do you have to be in the story, in that successful story in order for it to work? And it's probably not who you're being right now.

Yeah, I think that's it. I mean, leaders of businesses tend to focus on, like, what. What do they need to do? What do they need to put in place, what kind of systems they need to formulate, if they're even at that, you know, if they're even able to raise their head above the work and see that as. As the problem. But I think that. And that is. That is exactly what needs to happen. But those things tend to fall apart if you're not able to be a certain way. And whatever those attributes are, that's part of the magic of coaching or doing this inner work is it allows you to have those qualities. So whether that's the confident leader that's able to delegate well, or the leader that's able to take space to be able to find new opportunities, or the leader that's able to motivate teams of people to do greater and greater things, these are things that are rooted within the qualities that they have within them already, and they just need to be able to find a way to systematically tap into them. And the good news is, I mean, when you're talking about stories and limitations and all of that, I mean, most for my clients, at least in my experience, I would say 80 to 90% of the time, what's holding us back is mindset. It's actually not. There are very few times when there are actual structural hindrances in place. Like, yeah, of course there are challenges, but they're not really hindrances until we've ident. We make them hindrances. We make them these obstacles instead of seeing it as a challenge that's overcome by being a certain way. And that's the root of really good coaching. I mean, otherwise you're just. You're looking at, like, a consultant to come in and tell you what to do and how to do it and all of that. But it doesn't. The problem with that is that it very often creates backsliding and that you talk to those same people six months to a year down the road, and it's like, well, yeah, that kind of lasted for a little while, but nothing's really changed. And the reason is because you haven't changed.

Yeah. I like to tell folks that you have the company you deserve, or you deserve the company you have.

Yeah, that's great.

I mean, you have to transform yourself as well.

Yeah. Even bigger than that. You can talk about the light you have, the life you deserve. And so if you want to work on changing your life, creating a different kind of life, who do you need.

To be the next? Yeah, well, I think so. When you go. And I've seen some, like, I went to a big Tony Robbins fan, and I. I've never done any of the programs, but I've seen, like, the movie, and I've read some of the books, and there's a lot in there that's good. But the thing that I had real trouble with is they were building up a lot of, like. Well, let's just say the thing that you're not doing right now that you know you need to do. And let's just add a lot of energy, physical energy, and emph to it, and then you'll be able to conjure that up. And I'm like, you know, what if. If you were successful in doing something, and then you'd be confident or whatever, but you're really struggling and you. You aren't confident right now. Instead of working so hard to bring up confidence, let's look at what's, like, easily and readily available to you right now. And they'll often come up with something like creative or playful or, you know, or some other. They'll come up with like a third or fourth or fifth direction. And there's something in that other thing that is. Requires less effort and is more liberating in that. And I kind of hear you using a similar approach.

Yeah, first of all, I mean, yeah, I really like Tony Robbins stuff. Again, I haven't been to any of his trainings, but like you, I've read quite a few of his books and seen him talk on video, at least, and seen the movie. I think that any time it's important to have those initial breakthroughs, right? And I think that's a lot of what he does, is people will come to him to kind of be essentially broken open. Right. And then. But the problem is that once you come off of that peak experience of three days or a week or whatever, it's like, how are you? Then there's like a natural kind of backsliding into that. And so I definitely am a huge fan for my clients of, like, what can you do right now? Like, in the next week, what are you gonna do, you know, based on this. But again, it's coming from that place of like, who are you now? So if you're talking about, like, leadership and delegation, getting them into that posture, that's like, yeah, you know, I'm feeling good as a leader. What are some times have you been a leader really feeling into that and then out of that space, what can you do right now to make these changes and get really specific? A lot of my work with executives, you have to take it down to a very specific level. Otherwise it just gets lost as one more fluffy thing. So, for instance, it would be like, what's. Give me an example of a meeting where you're going to be able to do some of this, and then when is that meeting happening, you know, and how are you going to enter into the room? How would a person that can access that? How would you sit. How would you talk? You know, what are you. And then importantly, how am I going to know as your coach that you've been successful or not at this? You know, what have you learned? And so holding some accountability for that. Yeah.

So you're having them actually think and create the whole way of being. Doing an action that is. That would come from this new thing, right?

Yeah, exactly. So just taking confidence. It's like, okay, I'm going to be confident and I have a way of accessing confidence. No, where specifically are you going to apply that confidence? And what does that feel like and look like? And that then creates the. You know, you do that enough, you're changing your habits fairly quickly, like within a few weeks.

You know that one of the oldest coaching techniques or tricks that I learned, I've actually seen and learned several versions of it, but I think it came from Zig Ziglar originally, but he maybe got it from someone else, too, but it was this. Be. Do. Have. Have you ever heard this piece before?

No, I don't think so.

So we start often with like, oh, I want things. I want a billion dollars. I want a million dollars, like, whatever it is for you, right. I want 100 million. A billion, like your deal. Often there's a. Have kind of a thing. I want a better house, I want a better job. I want a better family, wife, like, whatever it is, there's a thing that you want and it lives in the world of having. And then if I had that thing, then I would do certain things. Things like I would travel more and I would be more playful or I would take more time off, or I would. And then the final thing is I would be. And I would be happy or I would be fulfilled. I would be proud. I would be like, whatever the being. And what this exercise does is it just flips it. It says, okay, what's the being that you really hunger for and you want. You explore some of it and you look for, how could you be a particular way? And. And this works best if it's authentic versus the fake it till you make it philosophy. But something that you could authentically and actually really be right now that would then have you acting in new ways and ultimately would give you new things. And. And I think that there's something like that, that. That I hear you pointing to when you're coaching someone, they have some insight, some new thing, oh, I want to be this way. I want to be that way. And you have to actually really create that. And then you see yourself acting in New ways. And pretty soon you have new results, new outcomes as a result of that.

I think that's exactly it. And I'll even add to that that there's a kind of magic that goes along with being in a certain way that oftentimes the doing will just come very naturally from it. It should come authentically out of it. And then the having goes even more natural from that. So if you're somebody that's trying to create more confidence in their life and there's ways that they can manifest that very specifically as they're going through their day to day, oftentimes the fruits, the results of a bigger sense of confidence will come even before they've done a ton of the doing. Because really, it was just this mental block that was holding them back.

Yeah. So, God, I'm hearing a few things. We should reinforce some of these ideas here. Right. So there is like, you are, whether you realize it or not. Right. Creating your own experience. You're forming your own vision of the world and what's possible. And when you realize that, then you have more power over it. Right. I think that's the first thing I hear.

That's exactly.

And then the second thing is that there's more possible than we realize. And all of the stories and explanations, things that you have right now are simply stories that could be set aside. There's another perspective available. It's not that they're wrong, it's that they're not the whole or only truth. Right.

That's exactly it. Yep.

And ultimately the shifting of the mindset makes new actions and new results available.

That's what makes lasting change possible. The shifting of the mind. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise it just becomes band aids and we just. It's more and more band aids put onto something that is never really solved. And that's exactly it.

Yeah.

But it's those three steps that really opens it up. And then from that piece, the mindset, that's where you get into the really fun stuff. Right. So like, how do we then play with mindset? And then how do you bring in these awareness exercises? How do you create a daily practice? How do you even set up your office to reinforce this mindset to really get to whatever it is that you're trying to achieve?

And so any final tips for folks or first steps before we end up wrapping our show and our conversation?

Yeah, sure. I would say that whatever you. First, I would take a minute to really think about where you want your life and your business to be in a year, two years, five years from now and to really sit down and feel that in a very visceral way. And then from that, think about what it is that you need to feel on a day to day basis to allow you to get to that point. And then what stories are you telling yourselves, telling yourself that are limiting that like I can't. And usually that comes across as like, well, that would be nice. But whatever. Whenever you start hearing the like, yeah, but that's the story piece. And then just bring awareness to that. The more you can bring awareness to that story, the more freedom you'll have to be able to go beyond that. And that's the very first step. And anybody can do that. I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing magic about that. So that would be my first tip to anybody in business or just in general in life.

Well, and that goes with the book, right? So the book is shift. You shift your mind, you shift yourself, you shift your reality, your business, the things around you. It's the Art of Transforming Limitations. Nick Egan is the author. If you want to go to. Of course, you can find the book by the time the show is out@Amazon.com the Art of Transforming Limitations. Or you can go to nickeganphd.com to read Nick's blog and find out about his work and like that. To get more on this, I want to thank our listeners for joining us once again to remind you that there's a good 150, 160 episodes out there on almost every subject. So you can go search on our website for an episode on one of these and listen to it on your next flight, commute, your workout, a long run, whatever it is, that's next for you whenever you listen to your. Love to listen to your podcast. We put one of these out every week as well. So you can subscribe on the website or you can subscribe on itunes or wherever you get yours. But all of that's available@scalingcoach.com along with free downloads of our tools and a free copy of the Scaling up book if you just pay the shipping and handling. Go to scalingcoach.com to find us there. Thanks again, Nick for joining us on the show this week. We'll talk to everybody again next week.

Thank you. Take care.

Special thanks to the original growth guru, Vern Harnish, creator of the Scaling It Framework and Mastering the Rockefeller Habits. The show is produced by Lucy Summers, audio production by Podfly Productions. The audio editing is done by Albert Burge. The show notes are compiled by Ayan Codena and proofread by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of the show, please pass it along. Share it like it subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast. Or you can go to scalingcoach.com and get it right there, along with a complete spot searchable back catalog of all the shows plus our our tool downloads and a copy of the book. You can also let us know the parts that you love or tell us what you want to hear more of. Send us a line toinfo scaling coach.com thanks again for listening. Keep scaling.

Sam.