179: Les Lent — Building Strong Connections within Teams

Well, anything big that you want to accomplish is going to require scaling up. And scaling up is going to require a team of some kind. It could be a fairly small team, it could be a fairly virtual team, but whatever it is, it's going to take a team to do anything with any scale. And so how do you create a powerful team? That's the subject of our show today. How do we elevate the engagement, the fulfillment, the success of the team? That's the subject of our conversation. So listen in as we talk with Jeff Manchester on the power of vulnerability, creating a more powerful team. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach, Bill Gallagher. So today on the show is Jeff Manchester. Jeff, I believe you're in South Florida today.

Yeah, I am, yeah. Calling from sunny Fort Lauderdale.

Jeff's another old guy like me. He wrote a book, the Power of Vulnerability, how to Create a Team of Leaders by Shifting Inward. And he's worked with thousands of presidents and CEOs as a strategic advisor and executive coach. He's got a whole lifetime of work in the consulting space. He's also a serial entrepreneur and has had his hand in other things, including the Latin Quarter restaurant at Universal Studios CityWalk in Orlando. It's an award winning best Latin restaurant, best Latin nightclub. It sounds like a great place for me to go as quickly as possible. So Jeff's active member of YPO and past chairman of the Florida chapter. He's got two boys, stepson and a boy. He was a freshman in high school.

Yeah, he's actually junior now. Yes. Grows fast.

Oh, that's like old, old info. So I so happy to have you on the show. And it's a great topic as always. I think that when we think about the top things that CEOs screw up and struggle with, it's on the people side of things, recruiting them, managing them, engaging them, all of that. And it so much of it starts with and ripples out from the top. So it's a great, great conversation. Why don't you give folks a little bit expanded version of your story and background before we get into the topic of the book?

Yeah, you bet. Well, all my career has been in business consulting of some form or fashion. And I started originally out of grad school working for Arthur Andersen and their consulting division, which we now know is Accenture, but a worldwide consulting organization that was growing fast. And I left that company to start my own consulting firm based in Miami and grew that part of Inc. Magazine's fastest growing 500. All those kinds of good things. But in that process, I actually realized, and in my experience in growing and learning through the Young Presidents organization, I realized that my real call was to shift from what was more, I would say, technology consulting focused and move more into management consulting focused. And so I did a pivot in the late 90s, sold my tech consulting company, and pivoted to then go into executive coaching. And really, how do you help teams develop and grow and help them scale their businesses? And so since that time, I've really, as you mentioned, a couple of other entrepreneurial endeavors, but really became focused on supporting leaders and teams. And that's really where my passion is and feels like I found my calling in that space.

And so what was your idea here? Why this book?

Well, yeah, Right.

What were you thinking?

Yeah. So this really came about because we found team after team, organization after organization, that really, in many ways, first of all, the teams weren't actually teams or management teams. They were more like functional work groups. I've got my head of hr, I've got my coo, I've got my cfo, and we have our silos, and we do our own thing. We come together weekly to talk about a little bit. We don't really share, we don't collaborate, we don't have synergy, and we move on and get back to our teams to get real work done. What happens is organizations actually miss the point that their senior leadership team is the first team. That's the team. And however that team goes, will go the company. And so if that team's dysfunctional or not actually a team, there will be mixed results ultimately for the organizations. And so, you know, a lot of that led to the technologies and processes and ideas of how do you break down some of the old walls and barriers of connection and transparency and openness and, you know, bringing in notions around. It's not. It's more than emotional intelligence, because I need to know more than what I'm thinking. I need to know how to actually express myself. And so this notion then became important to find a way to become more empowered I and empowered in the process for all of us as leaders. And that the only real gift I have to offer my team, the best asset I have, is my viewpoint. It's my experience. It's how I see the world. And that diversity is what makes us stronger. So how do I show up more authentically, transparently, and openly, even if it's with a dissenting opinion from the majority in the room? And so we found ourselves just facilitating Time and time and time and time again. Opportunities to break down these connections and find that the power that's there is when I can get to a place where I'm more open and more transparent and I've being more vulnerable in the process.

Yeah. When we talk about that, I think the thing that always comes to mind is the story of the blind men and the elephant, which I love to remind folks of and I think about and I try to remind myself of on a regular basis, that we all bring a different perspective, we all see part of it. Right. Do you know that story?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

So I was just thinking about something else in the process. So for our listeners, right, there's this ancient story of bringing five blind men to see an elephant for the first time. And they see by touching. So they are arranged around the elephant. One touching touches the leg and describes it like a mighty tree, and the other touches the ear and talks about it like a leathery hide and somebody touches, you know, the, the trunk and it's a giant snake or whatever, you know, on and on like that. And the thing is that they're all valid, they're all right, and yet they're all different. And, and I think a lot of times we argue for our perspective and sometimes we're missing the value of the other perspective or the fact that it may actually enhance the complete picture rather than how can you both be 100% right in saying different things? Well, that really illustrates it, right?

Like yes, yeah, absolutely.

Not the, the winning out, but the convergence of multiple perspectives that make us so much better. So I always love to tell the stories that illustrate the book rather than explain the concepts.

Yeah.

So why don't you start off. You shared a few with us as we got ready to do this with your auto parts distributor. Right, Right, right.

So an example is, did an off site for a regional auto parts distributor based in the southeast region. And we did a two day off site down in the Keys. And as it turns out, we had 16 of their top tier plus second tier leadership from around the region that were in attendance. And they were doing well. They were doing, but. But there was something missing. They just didn't feel like they were all hitting on all cylinders. Didn't feel like they were all completely aligned around direction, vision, purpose, culture, what's important. There was just something that wasn't clear. And so in the prep work and in interviewing everyone, it became pretty clear to me that there was just a slight miss in alignment around what the core purpose and driver of the organization Was and seemed like a genuine affinity that everyone had for one another and genuine sense of high level trust. But there was just something that wasn't quite aligned. And so that's what the off site focused on and helped us to drive a deeper understanding around what is the real mission and purpose of the company, what is the core why, if you will, that's driving all of this aside from corporate profits. And when everybody began to connect with you know what this company was really all about and the best of the company in terms of stories and the lore of the company, it was the energy became palpable and you found this deepening of it was almost like the aha moment in the room. Everybody felt it and saw it. And at the end of our two day process they just launched into 18 straight months of record breaking month over month performance that led the into an exit a year and a half before they thought they would be ready for an exit. And it was just this sense of alignment connection that galvanized this team to just kill it.

What was happening in the meeting, how did that shift.

As they began to connect more deeply around what the company was really all about and they actually embraced what was going on. Sometimes this isn't a marketing pitch if it's actually happening. So when they were actually able to look at how they were connecting with suppliers, how they were connecting with their clients, how they were treating their customers, how they were supporting one another, it was inspiring to everybody there. It was through that inspiration that they were able to kind of unlock for them what they needed to really feel the alignment and what was crucial. So the crucial became really crucial aspect was to focus on what that why was and that was going to drive everything. And they just all got it and rallied behind it and never looked back. One of the ways that that shift began to happen is I asked them to break up into teams and, and to talk about what are the stories that represent the best of this company. If you were going to describe something that made you extremely proud or excited or inspired or you know, why you, you think that this best represents the best of what we have to offer, what are they? Whether it's impacts with your vendors, whether it was a client facing connection, whether it was something with an employee. And so they started pulling these stories together and they presented these stories to one another. And when you start hearing these stories, stories that where the team came together and helped to pay for the funeral of the husband of one of the wives that worked in the company because they didn't have the extra Money after all the medical bills to handle the funeral. Or they came together to go above and beyond to build a relationship with their UPS vendors and take them run out with fresh ice cold bottles of water and make a difference. Or just kind of story after story after story where these teams and the CEO had gone truly above and beyond in inspiring ways. And when everybody started sharing that, you got a palpable sense of what the why was. It was a palpable sense of why they were in business and why they were having an impact. And they authentically connected to kind of the core of what they are as a group and as a company. And then they focused, made that their focus going forward. If they do that, then everything else will take care of itself. It was incredibly inspiring.

I hear both the why and the values. Some of the how came through in that.

Correct, correct. In fact, after that process, we're very easily able to come out and dissect what are the core values here? They're right here. Let's go ahead and refine our core values. And so it's easy when it's real and it's happening, you're not in a boardroom trying to make it up. It's through true experience.

Yeah, it's not conceptual at that point.

Exactly.

Really great. Okay, so then. And that shifted and then they went on from there through.

Yeah, 18 consecutive months of record sales. Yeah.

There is a connection. That's really great. So then talk about the tech firm that you did that also had a turning point.

Yes, tell us about that. Yeah, it was a semiconductor firm and they were, they were looking to try to go into another round of money raise, but they had to hit certain performance criteria by the end of the next 12 month period in order to be prepared for the next tranche of financing. And there was dissension in the team. As I did my prep work with this team, they were clearly siloed. They were just in it almost as individuals, just trying to push through to get to the next event. And they all were in a position where they were ready to vote one of their senior leaders off the team. They're going to vote them off the island, you know, get off the island. Off the island, yeah. And this senior leader, she was, she was very talented, but everybody felt like she was stepping in their sandbox telling their people what to do. And you know, she was just the problem amongst the team. And so we went to a beachside resort and had an off site. And in this off site, I asked them to share five of the key Life shaping experience that really helped to shape their values as individuals and the person that was in the room. And as they began to share one by one what their top five were, you get a really deep understanding of what drives each person and what's important to them and understanding who they are and a lot about their journey, both ups and downs. Because obviously the things that shape us can be at times beautiful, positive things in our lives and certainly crisis or loss or difficult things that shape us for sure. And so this leader, she went last in the group and she began to share. And the first most significant life shaping experience was the loss of her father to cancer. And when she was in her late 20s, the next most significant life shaping experience was the loss of her mother three years later to cancer. The next most significant life shaping experience was the loss of her brother to cancer seven years later. The next most significant experience was she herself contracted cancer, only to then have it come back five years later. And she was now three years.

This is like a family class action suit, right?

And so she said, look, I'm living on borrowed time. Yeah, I don't know how much longer I have. I don't have time to go through proper channels to go find the right person to talk to so that something can get fixed. If I see something that is out of place or isn't working the way it should, I'm going to just tell them, do it differently. And I'm not trying to step in anybody's toes here. I just have a sense of urgency that with whatever time I have left, I want to make an impact. And there wasn't a dry eye in the room. And the coo, which happened to be kind of her biggest nemesis, ran up and grabbed her and gave her the biggest hug and said, I so admire and respect you for who you are and what you've been through. And in that moment, the entire team shifted to having a sense of urgency. In that moment, they made it okay. We're not here to step on anybody's toes, folks, but if you see somebody doing something that isn't in your department but it's, it needs to be changed, just change it. Why do we have to go, why do we have to be PC and go find the VP to tell the director to tell the manager to tell, just change it. In that moment, it completely shifted the entire team to take this sense of urgency. It turned out that not only did they compress the 12 month cycle they thought it would take to hit their earnings, they were able to do it in six Months. They were actually able to pull in the funding they needed six months early because they had just started coming together and killing performance and collaborating on challenges and issues the way they'd never done before.

Yeah, it's really, that's really powerful. I think there's something there that when we see each other, when we understand where the perspective of the other, then we appreciate the way that they approach the world. And it's not just the personality quirks, it's the core motivations. It's these defining moments and stuff. We're like, oh, that's. How come you are like that?

Right?

That's going on.

That's what's going on here. I can now trust your motivations. I understand you. You know, and there's so many times we're working with groups, I was working with another group and like one of the leaders had been engaged for six months. Nobody on the team even knew, you know, we, for some reason, so many teams don't connect at a more basic, personal, humanistic level. And they're, you know, one of the paradoxes of trust is that if you don't know the things that are most important to me, my family, you know, my wife, my dog, whatever those things that are important to me, then I'm not going to trust you because you really don't know me. And so, you know, for some reason we've grown up in a place with lots of our old school notions that we don't share feelings, we don't share personal things in the workplace and it makes us too vulnerable. The truth is if we want to build deeper levels of trust and collaboration and openness and synergy that we have to share more about who we are and what drives us.

Yeah, well, I, it's funny because I, I can think of multiple client examples that are related to the first couple stories that you shared there. And, and I, I remember working very hard with one team. I had to call out, guys, you're not on the same page. I'm sorry, I hate to, to break this to you and to like go to. But there's no point in talking more about these issues and situations and moves and things like, like coming at it. You there, there's a lack of trust and affinity. There's a lack of respect for each other's perspective here. And so we, we dove into it and we worked and we moved the needle some on it. I'm thinking of one team particular right now in the, in the tech sector. But it ultimately their view and their need and their motivations. For the kinds of company they wanted to work were not aligned and.

Right, right.

And that became, it was, it was pretty clear like from an outsider's perspective those things are clear earlier like okay, we really have to work on this. Three months into working with the team, nine months later there finally was a change and I started calling it out at the three month point. But it took a lot of months to get to that point. Now I suspect this is more recent that we're going to see a lot of movement, a lot less time in our off sites, a lot more alignment and follow through on the plans that get created because they aren't looking at the world from a fundamentally different place. And sometimes I think you can't, you can't resolve the difference. Like it just, it's appropriate for a person to leave and it's not that person sucks. It's just that they're coming out, they have different needs and wants and. And there isn't a place for them on the team. They should find.

And if right. And if they're ultimately their values of how they want to operate don't align with the team, team's values or the company's values. It's right and appropriate them to find a place where they can thrive. And that's not going to be in your organization.

And this thing, I mean the first one that we see again and again, this is one of the top couple of mistakes we see people make is not making those key changes when you've done the work to share yourself and understand each other. And then like, okay, if you're playing a different game in a different way, you should be with a different team.

The nice thing about that too, Bill, is that when you do this kind of work it becomes really obvious who might be on the outside of this. And it's really almost self selects the folks that realize that they're not really headed in the same direction and it's time to get off the bus.

Yeah. And then you've got to be decisive and move with velocity to make those changes to confront whatever sort of mess gets created. You shared a third story about a company doing consulting work in the sort of government contract space. Talk about that. I think that's really relevant now.

Well, again, I think that one of the things that I see so much is that most organizations don't have an effective way to deal with conflict. Most organizations, conflict's underneath the radar. We don't really talk about things. It's not open. At times I might have somebody that feels more comfortable being More direct. And so they become the bully in the group or whatever. But for the most part, conflict goes unresolved. And so I was working with this consulting company, government consulting, contracting company and based out of Richmond, and they were, after doing the prep work, it was pretty clear to me that these guys were sharp, they were clear with what they needed. They all seemed really right, people in the right seats on the bus, so to speak. But boy, they had so much unresolved conflict between them that they wouldn't, they couldn't share a story or share support or, you know, deal with the elephants that were dancing in the boardroom to save their lives. And so in that process, it was clear that we were going to have to teach them, first of all, build safety so that they could understand what it takes to create a safe place to step into difficult conversations. And then number two, give them a protocol, a script that is a best practice tool that then they can use, that allows them to have respectful, constructive dialogue with one another. And we spent in the entire, we spent five hours with a team of eight leaders, basically going through and clearing out all of the baggage that these guys had between one another that have been building up for the last five to ten years depending upon their tenure. And it was cathartic. It was cathartic. We went to dinner that night. You'd have thought we had just won the Super Bowl. You know, it just felt like everybody had lightened their load and they felt like now every time we hold those in, those resentments or frustrations become a block to me having authentic connection with the people on my team. So there's no way, or I shouldn't say there isn't any way, but it makes it very difficult to collaborate and brainstorm and certainly to create synergy when I don't feel like I can connect with you. And so from that standpoint, because we had a clear strategic plan, it just wasn't being executed. It was like we went through the process, everybody was aligned, but the results were, the performance wasn't what we had anticipated. And we began to realize that part of the core was all of this built up mistrust and conflict. And once we cleared that out, you could almost see the hockey puck curve begin to come into play quarter after quarter from that point forward. And it began to actually collaborate and perform well as a team. And their performance showed it.

So let's talk about that for a second. When I have a team where it's off, it's toxic. There's issues to be deal with and it's pretty pronounced. And I feel like that I'm always a little afraid of diving into the disagreements because I feel like that's just going to end up with a hundred year feud and instead what I. And the loss of a company. Right. I start first with responsibility and then I go into appreciation and finally contribution or commitment. So what is it that you could apologize for? And when I have teams go through that round, they're a little weak. I would say they're, they're not as interested in being responsible for. But. But it begins something thing.

Yes.

And then appreciation elevates it a little bit and that's where they acknowledge all or some of the others for here's what I love about you, that kind of thing. And then the final piece is a round of, you know, what can you count on for me and who am I for you, for the team. Right. And so I have people share that and we go around sort of the, the, the gripes then and we get to something that's sort of beautiful with the team and then we say, you know, is there anything that you need to clean up? And the space is a little different so we don't get into as much. Well, you did this shit and.

Right, right, right. Yeah.

But I'm curious like how do you, how do you go about that? How do you tackle that when the team is off like that?

Well, I think that what you're describing is what you're trying to do is create some safety with the process that you outlined. Right. You're trying to give them a way to weed in, own a little bit of maybe where they need to apologize. Have them build some appreciation of one another. Yeah. So you're not dumping, you're building connection. And connection is one of the key elements to safety. And so I think that is a great way to begin to lead into the tougher conversations. And so the elements that I would use, I certainly use different kinds of connection techniques to help to establish the foundation before launching into the tougher conflict resolution discussion. And I think that there are ways that we begin to build that in. I like a couple of icebreakers are what is a success that you've had recently that maybe the team isn't fully aware of? And what's a challenge that you're dealing with right now that you're struggling with that the team's not fully aware of? The second one obviously getting them into appreciation for something they didn't know that you were struggling with. Typically if I hear one of my teammates struggling with something, I Start to think about, well, hey, maybe I could help you with this? Or have you thought about that? We go into, how do we begin to get into support as opposed to a sense of distance because I'm upset about something. There are different ways that we can create some of these points of connection before going into resolving the conflict, before that help to establish safety, which is crucial.

Yeah. So you're, you're talking throughout here about elevating trust, right? How do we scale trust? How do we build trust? And so why don't you talk us through that? Look, what do you think is the core approach to doing that? If we take it that trust is important, how do we do that? I have a company right now that's sort of grappling with what is trust, how do I be trusted like that.

Yeah. So, you know, I like to tell my clients that trust is the most important asset of the organization and it's one of the few assets of the organization we have complete control over. Meaning I can invest more and more in my connection and the trust within the team. I can't control the economy, I can't control our President's tweets at 2am but I can have some control over my investment in my team. And so I can make a significant contribution to the investment that's needed to establish the trust in the company. Trust, as we know, is. It's not like, Bill, if I give you my iPad, do I think you're going to steal it? Because I think that I trust you enough to know that it's still going to be there at the end of the day or you're going to give it back. Trust in the corporate setting.

How little you know me.

I know where you live, so I'll hunt you down. That's okay. Trust in the corporate setting is, do I trust your motivations? Do I trust where you're coming from? Do I trust, most importantly, that I can share something that is maybe a dissenting opinion or value or belief and not be rejected, still be accepted? That's what trust in a corporate environment actually means. And so we necessarily have to find ways to be more, go through different kinds of exercises that allow us to be more transparent and open. You know, as I mentioned, maybe these five key life shaping experience. I understand where you're coming from. I now understand your motivations. You know, I understand why you're, you know, telling my people what to do. And I won't take it so personally now. But if I don't know those things about it, I'm going To take it personally and want to vote you off the island. And so these become critical to deeper understanding. When I understand your journey, it helps me. I actually develop a sense of care for you. You know, it's like I care about what's going on with you. I care whether you're having a tough time with difficult teenager or you're separated from your wife. I care in those settings because I now know who you are. If I don't know you, then there's a huge gap. I think that's why this is important and at times urgent, depending upon where the team is. And we talk about trust. This is scaling up. We help our company scale. And I tell my clients, if you want to scale your company, you have to scale trust. It's not just a trust between the senior leadership team. It has to be a cultural focus that becomes something where we are all intentional and protective over how we operate so that we protect trust. Because as we know, it doesn't take much to. To cause a problem with that.

Well, so what I hear you saying, like, if I want to build trust, right, I need to give trust, I need to trust others. And I do that when I open up and I share myself, and then I need to earn trust. And when I listen with compassion and caring to your story, then I earn trust. And then beyond the sharing of personal stories, which is a key way that we do it within a team, there's building that. So I give trust and I earn trust, and both of those are the ways that we build that trust over time. It's not simply keep insisting you can trust me.

Yes, correct. Correct. And the earning of trust, it also comes into play, obviously, when I do what I say I'm going to do. You know, we all are kind of holding each other accountable at some level to make sure we're accomplishing and doing those things. And that's another way that we earn our trust. And trust is also created as we share experiences together. So the highs and lows of our business is going to allow us to create trust. Going out for a company function where we're supporting a local orphanage. Is it a shared experience of giving back to the community that we will build off of and help to grow and deepen our trust? So all of these shared experiences add to our opportunities for us to really make meaningful deposits in the trust bank.

Well, and through all this, I hear a deep investment and concern caring for the dynamics of. Of the team, the other players, the way we are working together, like that whole thing, right?

Yeah, it is an investment. As we know, we're looking for rhythms of connection. And what we want to do is just be more intentional about building in connect points that allow us on a frequent basis to establish connection and opportunities to build some trust as we're going into our weekly meetings, opportunities, then in our monthly or quarterly off sites to be able to establish time specifically devoted to that. And so it's an ongoing process. Because one of the things that is interesting is that one of the empowerment principles that we write about is that the height of performance of our teams will be directly related to the depth of connection amongst the team members. And so what I want to be able to do is realize that those investments, while initially don't have an immediate ROI like time spent going to visit with this particular customer, I may sign a deal. So that has immediate, quantifiable roi. It's the investment in these times as a team that will prove the. It's a bit of a leap of faith initially, but will. Will show the benefits of that and return on investment over time.

Yeah, I really hear that. And I think some of us know this in our bones, maybe most of our listeners, but I think it's useful to remind us that the team is the powerful thing people invest in teams. It's teams that'll help you tackle problems, accomplish your goals. That all the really interesting big things that you might want to accomplish in life, you're going to accomplish with a team. Of course, you have to master yourself in the process to be a part of a team, a leader of a team. But the team is your access to doing something more and grander and gives us a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And especially I think when you start thinking about fulfillment, you know, I think that's the, you know, we constantly see employee engagement numbers that are just horrific. And how do we begin to shift those employee engagement numbers? How do we shift sense of loyalty? How do we increase our net promoter scores internally? Well, when we begin to actually connect with one another on more than just a, you know, performance basis, but on a human basis, all of those numbers begin to shift.

Yeah, it's a powerful thing. So recapping some of the big ideas, trust is critical to scaling your business. You've got to scale the trust you're investing in the team. And it's going to take sustained effort over time. An ongoing process. It needs to be part of that culture to foster the team, a healthy team dynamic. Right. And there's this notion that you put forth in the book of empowerment, where in order to invest in the team to build that trust, we've got to be open and transparent. We've got to share that. We've got to create an environment where other people can share that and it starts with us and then moves out to the others and creates that, that thing and that becomes then a powerful team that scales better. Did I, did I get it?

You should write a book. I think this Power of Vulnerability might be a good top title. You got it that.

Okay, so the Power of Vulnerability. How to create a team of leaders by shifting inward. You can find it wherever you find your books, but you can go on Amazon and get it there. But you could also go to Jeff's website at shift180.com so shift180.com where you can find out about the book and Jeff's work and so on. Or just go, go to Amazon and get it. Jeff, I'm so grateful for you to come on and share some of the stories and talk about this important topic with us today.

Thanks Bill for having me. Great to connect with you as always. Have a great day.

Yeah, thanks everyone. Reminder to everyone else, we'll be back again next week with another show on something to do with Scaling up and your leadership. So we've got over 170 of these episodes now. I'm sure there's something on everything that you might want to cover from strategy to creating your big Harry Audacious goal, to creating a vivid vision or a painted picture out somewhere in the future, to developing your team to recruiting to executing better improving your cash position, all aspects of people, strategy, execution and cash and the leadership to take the company. There are the things we cover. Find it all@scalingcoach.com free downloads of the tools and the shows that you can get there as well. Well as a free copy of the Scaling up book. If you want a copy of our book, I'll send it to you for free. Just pay the shipping and handling. Be my pleasure. So thanks everyone. We'll talk to you again next week. Well, big thanks to the original growth guru starter of all things, Rockefeller habits and Scaling Up Vern Harnish. This show was produced by Lucy Summers and the audio production was done at Podfly Productions. Our audio editing is done by Albert Burn. The show notes are compiled by Ann Kudina and proofread by Tim McGowan. If you love the show, please share it. Pass it along to somebody else like it. Subscribe to get our shows every week and if you're moved we would love it if you would give us a positive review on itunes or wherever you get your podcast. You can let us know the parts that you love, give us feedback, tell us what you want more of. Send an email email to info scalingcoach.com thanks again for listening. Keep scaling up.