207: Malorie Nicole — How to Shift the Stress Epidemic

How are you sleeping right now? How are you feeling? Do you notice that you're more or less uneven than normal, that you're dysregulated in some way, that you feel off, that you don't know what to do with yourself like that? It's really critical that you find a way to upgrade your emotional range and capacity, especially in a time of challenge and stress like many of us are feeling as we confront this right now. Today's show is with an expert on mindset and emotional development and is a really practical, simple show to help you confront and upgrade your emotions which will make a difference for you and for your team and for your business ultimately. So simple, clear, actionable. Listen in. This show is all about how to scale and grow your business no matter what the economy looks like, no matter what other industry or part of the world you're in. You'll also find hundreds of other shows episodes on leadership and Scaling up at our website, scalingcoach.com the website also has downloads of all the tools we talk about and we'll even give you a free copy of the international best selling book Scaling up right there@scalingcoach.com just pay the shipping and handling. We'll give you the book for free. Scalingcoach.com Listen in now as we talk with Mallory Nicole about upgrading your emotional response and your mindset in this time. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host, scaling coach Bill Gallagher. So joining me now is Mallory.

Bill, thank you for having me, Mallory.

Welcome to the show. We've been talking about this a lot, guys. Mallory Nicole is a mindset expert. She helps entrepreneurs leaders deal with their emotional barriers, blocks their mindset issues. Her podcast, Abundantly Clear is a fantastic resource for dealing with this whole emotional side. I've been talking for the last couple weeks with people about dealing with the emotional space moving through this. So I'm really glad to have somebody to help us go a little deeper in this and help you find the access to shifting. It matters at any time, but in particular in a pivotal time like we're in, as we record this now, this is a really relevant conversation.

It is. Thank you for having me on.

So tell us, we've said you're a host of the podcast, you're an expert in this area. Give us a little bit of your background. How do you come to be in this? Tell us your story before we get into some of the client stories.

Yeah, certainly. So in 2014 I got very sick and went through a three, four, month period where I had all these symptoms showing up, you know, symptoms under the sun, you end up googling them and you're convinced that that's it and you're going to die, that kind of thing. It was every single week there was a new symptom and I wasn't sure really what was going on with my body and in my health at the time. Well, after numerous months of going through this process and trying to figure out the answer, I figured out I have a gluten intolerance. Really not that big of a deal, but it sent my body haywire. And that really started my initiation into understanding how the body works. Well, quickly after that scenario, I ended up wanting to do some more work and understanding in health and wellness and decided I wanted to get a health coaching certification. I was working for an engineering firm at the time and I just could not ignore the health component that was showing up in my life. So I dove in and got this certification. And then that led me to understanding all of the stuff about the brain and how the brain works and performance and mindset and beliefs and all the stuff that I absolutely love to do and talk about now. It really started that. So had it not been for this dark period of this health problem that I experienced, I never would do the work that I do now.

It's a really brilliant opening when you think about it, because at different points in life we're handed crises and we think of a crisis as a negative turn of events. Right. But turn is as much an important part and the root of the word crisis is about a turning point and a decision and it has equal meaning in those areas. But we don't often think about that. Like when you get thrown something like this, sometimes that is the thing that led you to the next period or maybe the crowning achievement of your life if you lean into what's been dealt you. Right?

Absolutely. I mean, had that not happened, I'd still be working for the engineering firm. And it wasn't that I was unhappy, but that was really the second big thing. I had a brain injury years before that and I think that was kind of my first attempt to a conscious wake up. And I didn't hear the first one, so. So I had a second one. But in that second experience of the all these health problems, looking back, that's one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. Now in the in during that time, it was very dark, I was very confused. I was struggling immensely. I didn't even want to talk to my family because I didn't know what was going on. Blood work wasn't showing me anything, but it wasn't that long. If we look at three months, you know, three months can feel like the longest time in our life right now. You know, the weeks feel very long because we're all in our homes. And, you know, I don't know exactly when this is getting aired, but that might be true when this does get aired. But three months in our lifespan is nothing.

Yeah. It's not a. It's a blip. And yet it can feel pretty long. And I post a thing recently, last month about this time. I was in Amsterdam where Anne Frank lived. And you think about that. There is someone who hid in a. In a space, in a house, you know, for a very long period of time. Pardon me. Got a little something in my throat there. Everybody is freaked out to hear coughing right now, but. Right. We could. And as we record this, we don't really have any idea how long this is going to go, what the impact is. The toll in New York City is staggering right now. The overwhelm and that kind of thing. It does look like the speed and velocity that we shut things down in Northern California is sparing us from some of that. I live in a lovely kind of a separated, very privileged kind of a existence. And there are people now who've been laid off, who have no ex. I mean, there's a whole range of stuff of impact. Right. There are people dealing with loss and sickness as we speak. There are people whose business has been completely destroyed. There are people who've been laid off. There's a whole. And we don't know where it's going or where it's going to end up.

No, we don't.

But it's enough to freak out.

It is. It's enough to freak you out, and it's enough to stir up maybe some even old unprocessed emotions that you don't even know are still there that are resurfacing. I mean, it can feel very heavy for people right now.

Well, since we're there, why don't you talk about the first one about your client who was freaking out as the coronavirus crisis struck. Talk about that one. Amy.

Yeah, he's very open with this story. He actually had me do a interview on his podcast to share his experience, because that's how disconnected he came. He went through the process. When this first thing kind of came to. To light, and it was real, he just lost it. I mean, he just lost it. It was like, I'm ready to, you know, buy a gun. I feel like I need to get food for my family for the next six months. Like in total, not survival. I don't even want to call it survival mode. It was total fear. That's kind of what happened. And he recognizes that now, and he is totally detached from that piece of him. But what was really happening was there was old stuff that was getting re triggered about feeling safe and about being able to have control over a situation. So in a session, we really kind of dug through, you know, why are you experiencing this the way that you are? What is this reminding you of? What is this old thing that's coming to surface right now? And it became very clear very quickly. Oh my gosh. You know, I'm not actually responding to the coronavirus right now or Covid right now because I'm scared of it. I'm having. I'm reliving a trauma experience from something old, and that's why I'm behaving the way that I am.

Yeah, I think it's really, really insightful because when you think about the way that we. We think about the word relationship, right? We. Oh, that's. We think about a romantic partner or whatever, and maybe we think about our friends, but. But really relating, connecting with other human beings is something that we do again and again and again. And yet if you keep doing what you did based on some things that happened to you, you know, five to 12, you end up with a lot more of the same. And living in that place of fear and reaction, not really created thoughtful, grown up kind of reality. And yet all of those patterns, right, the way that your mom, your dad, some key teachers, your siblings interacted with you, all the events that you had, you keep projecting to the future, Right.

A hundred percent. I mean, it's super boring and I won't get into it, but science and I know that you know this, you've read all the books too. Science shows us that over and over and over again that what's going on in your subconscious is totally playing out day in and day out, how you're behaving in all kinds of situations.

Yeah. When I hear someone interacting that way, I usually ask them, you know, tell me of another time when you had something like this that feels kind of like this, that you responded to. And then I'll say, can you think of an earlier time? And. And we'll often end up with something that was somewhere there between, say, 5 and 12 or 13.

So often it is. So often it is.

And they're like, oh, this is. I'm like, it's not therapy. We just want to have you recognize, have the insight, have you see this blind spot of something that you stopped remembering but you've always known was there. You just don't see it being played out again and again.

Exactly. And I love that you kind of just noted on it isn't therapy, because I think that's why a lot of people maybe don't feel comfortable addressing this part of themselves, because they feel like they're going to have to go relive it. And this was done. This was done in 45 minutes. 45 minutes of a session. It was done. What happened there in the two weeks after that? Well, he was. He was emotionally clear, and he went on to create a new offer that was great for, you know, his business audience that he works in. And he showed up without fear and signed on a bunch of clients after that. You know, opportunity is always possible, but when we don't know how to work through that fear and that noise that might be showing up, it blocks our ability to get there.

Right. We find ourselves responding to stuff. And then every man or every woman or every man who looks like that or woman who sounds like that becomes a manifestation. And we're sure, even if we haven't named it and called it out, that it's going to go like that one went before, because we're reminded of it and project that. So this guy was freaked out and his old stuff came up, and then what happened? What's. What's the. What's continued with him?

Yeah, he actually used this opportunity to create a pivot. It's not a complete. He didn't have to shut his business completely down and start over, but it gave him insight and opportunity to actually think a little bit more deeply about how his audience and other people might be feeling right now and respond with an offer, with a business pivot that makes sense to meet them where they're at. And that's one thing that's so beautiful about marketing and about people and relationships. When we're in touch with our emotions, it enhances that more of like a hard skill of marketing, of showing up to our business, of sales, because that emotional connection exists.

Well, there's a lot of passion and there's power in emotion. Right. It drives decisions and action and. And yet it can feel. So, I mean, I think either people feel like they're an emotional mass, they're just a swamp of emotion all the time, or they. They're like, they shut it down. Shut it out. There's no place for that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And yet then they like have cancer or they do, or they develop some tension, stress issues and, and effects like that because they are stuffing it all.

Down a hundred percent. I've had clients, I don't, I don't market myself or position myself this way at all by any means because there's just a lot there. But I've. I've had clients that have their thyroid problems have gone away or they dropped a bunch of weight out of nowhere solely. And I didn't even know these things were existed, you know, before, before we started working together. Even during it was after they'd come to me and be like, oh yeah, I, you know, I wanted to tell you my thyroid panels came back and this problem that I've been having for eight years is completely gone. And I think it's because of part of the healing and the processing that I've been doing differently.

Nice.

We do, we hold this stuff in our bodies a hundred, one hundred.

I think there's. You don't have to be New Agey or pseudoscience to know there's plenty of scientific evidence that there's an impact on the body of the stress. And the way that we hold emotions is a key driver to that. I frequently recommend to clients that they go do mindfulness work of one kind or another. And one of the most commonly available around is, is a thing called mbsr, Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. As they go through difficult periods that they spend some time and do a program like that.

I 100% agree.

Yeah. Which at least gets you some access to moving through things and feeling it. That talk about. I think the next one would be really interesting to talk about because I feel a lot of people are dealing with issues around boundaries now. And as they moved home and their kids are there and then their work is there and days and weekends don't seem to have any meaning. And there isn't like a going to work and a coming home. There's. For many, many of us, not all of us, but many of us, there's no separation in things now and the boundaries are becoming problematic. So you were telling me about a Seattle area entrepreneur or maybe talk about that.

Yeah, absolutely. I truly believe that, you know, if your cup isn't at least somewhat full, you're. You're doing more harm than you are. Good. Because the reality is, is that the helping people is more about you than it is about them because you're trying to fill a void. And that's something 100% bill. I've been seeing that too. There's a lot of, a lot of overextension going on and not filling of one's cup. So I've got a client.

I'm guilty of that sometimes.

Well, I mean this is, there's no shame in this. We're just talk about it. Right. We've all got stuff and areas of room and growth and as soon as we decide that we're done growing, you know, we're. We're lying completely to ourselves. But I've got a client that grew up in, in the Seattle region. And you know, his background stories are. They're pretty, they're pretty hard, dirt floor type of background story. Growing up on a dirt floor, feeding his brother, who not his brother wasn't three years old. He was three years old feeding his brother and you know, having to care for his family in a way that no 3 year old should have to do. Well, long story short, you know, he grows up, creates this really successful business in the Seattle region and does not have any clarity to all of these patterns that are showing up in his relationships and why they're showing up the way that they are. The stress and the overwhelm of why aren't people just doing what I think they should be doing or how I'm helping them or you know, all of these different stories in his head of what it means to help. Well, those were actually more centered around I feel like I have to save people.

Yeah.

And maybe you didn't grow up on a dirt floor, but this still exists. These can, these stories can be created just by living in a household where you could have created some patterns around being a caretaker.

Yeah. It's interesting that I remember going through a workshop once. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I identified. Look. Oh, I love being a hero. Right. And love being heroic. I see myself as. And I think we'd all like to see that in one form or another. Like. And then somebody said, well then you're going to need a constant stream of victims in your life.

Yes, yes, yes. And it's that weird that a lot of us don't want to use and we want to feel good about the work that we're doing, but we do need. I just stopped myself from saying need. It helps us to identify the intention of why we're helping people in the way that we are.

So he noticed this thing and then what was the shift or the breakthrough for him?

Well, I'll be totally honest here with that particular client. It Took a little while because there was just a lot of. What actually ended up happening is there were a lot of memories that were not remembered up until that point that started coming up and showing up. And I believe that our memories show up when we're ready to heal them. So it created a lot of beautiful opportunity. And in a matter of a handful of months, a lot of his communication skills changed. Personal, romantic relationships actually shifted and changed to boundaries at work were be able. Were able to put in place. And he was doing that and helping people in a way that he wasn't walking around with that ball of anxiety in his chest of. I. I see this person and I know that they can do something for themselves and it's okay if they choose not to do it. It doesn't become my responsibility to make sure that that shift happens.

Right.

That identity was released.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They. Yeah, you move through that and then you don't necessarily have to play that role. You have access to it. Right. But there's a choice.

Well, savior. The savior complex and that need to help people all the time. The core of that is control. It's the need to control.

Yeah. It's interesting. Of course, it ends on a cross. Right. So at least I'm not Christian. We know how the savior story ends. So then the other one's like, polar.

Opposite, which is so interesting to me and what I find so fascinating about emotions.

Yeah. So talk about that one because I. I think I probably see even more of that where, like, I'm not going to be emotional. I'm just gonna move through this stuff. It's all business.

Yeah. And it's. It's very warrior. Like.

Like, I feel like those people have already tuned out.

Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. They're like, I'm. I'm totally done. I can't make it past that.

Maybe you know someone.

Yeah. We have to edit it out and put this at the beginning to speak to those people. No, I'm just kidding. That happens all the time. People feel like they grew up in households where. Or they don't even realize this, but they grew up in households where emotion was uncomfortable and they don't know that the emotion was uncomfortable because it was normal for people not to address it. So there is actually zero awareness to it. Usually in the beginning, it's just. It looks more like, oh, yeah, no, my. My mom and dad didn't really fight. We didn't really. There was never any conflict. And, you know, when I cried, I was told to just pull my britches up and keep moving forward, you know, whatever that looks like. That's a very upper lip. Yeah, yeah. And what a lot of people end up doing in adult life is that they. They don't know how to comfortably process their emotions because they're terrified of what it might feel like. So they're actually just suppressing it and trying to avoid it and pushing it down because the thought of even feeling it, whatever it is, is terrifying.

Pat Lanciani talks about this in Five Dysfunctions of a Team, which a lot of our leadership teams use that the first thing is about trust. The second piece is about our conflict style and understanding having good productive conflict. And I find a lot of teams don't have very good because the individual members don't have any mature, grown up, created, thoughtfully developed conflict style. They just have whatever they inherited. And they didn't ever stop to look and consider that they have an inherited conflict style.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I personally grew up in a household where conflict was broken dishes and screaming and yelling. And what that did, how I played that out and how that manifested in my life, is that something small. I would get very defensive. And, you know, I've done a lot of work. We all, like I said, there's nothing perfect about any of us. But. And understanding. Oh, wait a minute. That reaction is actually because you identified anything that could be potentially anything that could have potential conflict to you and your conversation or whatever it is that you're talking about, you're taking that to the extreme. It was so freeing to realize that.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I could, like, all the way out.

Yeah, I do that quite a bit. I take the thing and I'm like, okay, well, this is going to go like that now. And my wife's always like, wow, you just went like way down the road with that whole thing. Where are you going? I'm like, that's it, we're done. She's like, no, we just had an argument. It's fine. Go to sleep. It's going to be okay. Tomorrow's fine.

Well, I think that our ability to feel. Feel the, maybe the, the weird stuff, I don't even want to call it bad because that gives it a bad rep. But feel the weird stuff that maybe we aren't super comfortable with, that actually gives us the ability to feel so much more joy and happiness and fulfillment in our life.

Yeah. So when I go through with teams the after, one of the first things we do is share a little bit of personal history. And in that we see kind of people's Strengths, strong suits, winning formulas. It's been called different things by different groups. But we see kind of the, their go to thing that they rely on to get through conflict. We also have them open up and share with people in an area that they don't. That builds the trust and is abbreviated for them. The next thing that we often will do is just talk about conflict and then how you handle it yourself. So if you saw your family do it one way, you might do it the same way or you might then suppress. And that's not an option to you, but it could go either way, right?

Absolutely. And that's why there's no secret formula to this. It's everyone's custom experience and journey to identify and look at what they carried with them. And by looking at that, it shows us where our growth lies. And I don't mean just growth in like the woo woo sense. I truly mean it shows us where our performance and career and entrepreneurial and developmental growth lies.

Yeah. I think that this is the next step. So once, you know, once I know my style is this, then I can begin to consciously choose to either keep using that or try some new approaches. And if I know you do this, then when you're doing that again and again, I can give a little room to, to you to be that way without then reacting unconsciously to the way that you're reacting to the thing. And we start to then have a better, more productive conflict. You know, we can, we can hash something out without going nuclear.

Yeah. Yes.

Or stuffing it. Right.

Or just completely avoiding it. Right.

I'm going to just resent you forever and plot your evil death.

I mean, it happened. It's so strange. The stuff happens all the time and, and people aren't even aware of what it is that they're doing because it's, it's so normal to them. I have someone that I worked with for a while and when we first started working together, they had a contract employee that was, performance wise, should have been let go. I'll just say it this way. Performance wise should have been let go a long time before this person decided to let them go.

Yeah.

Because there was so much fear around having that one conversation that looks like there's no metric of performance here to justify keeping you on the team. I've got to let you go. Couldn't even get to that because of that fear around the emotion. It wasn't the conversation that they were fearful of. It was the emotion that they were going to experience in doing that thing.

Right. If I bring this up, it's going to get ugly.

Right.

So I'll just keep paying them and keep having them weighing down an organization. Yeah, I see that again and again with teams. It's one of the most common mistakes that CEOs make is not to enter the danger, to go deal with the difficult thing because they are worried about how difficult it's going to get. And it gets delayed and delayed and delayed. And then they look back like after that band aid finally gets ripped off, and then they're like, oh, Jesus, we carried that whole thing for 10 months. It held us back in all these areas. It's a. It's a massive toll, not dealing with things. And the people ones are by far the hardest ones to deal with.

Yeah, they really are.

And we see it costing millions of dollars on a regular basis. So talk about. You shared some of the stories. You also have a few things. So you've got a simple process. You want to talk us through that a little bit to identifying and processing emotions. Yeah.

And I think, you know, it's. It would be crazy for me not to. To say that you're already doing this with your clients. You know, you. You have so much skill and sharing everything that you have just on this, on the show that you do and on this episode, you already know this process. So I just want to acknowledge that for a second. But really it is looking at and identifying what is. What are you unconsciously unaware of? You know, if it's in the unconscious part of us, we're not aware of it. And how is it playing out into my performance or my behavior today and right now? So the first thing that I really think we all. And I use this for myself as well, that we all need to do is to address the emotion that's coming up. Because until we address the emotion, we can't even get to the second part. Whatever that emotion is, fear, anxiety, stress, overwhelm, panic. You know, there's all different kinds of words, different kinds of things that we experience. Just at least address it. Especially for those that do not want to address their emotions and want to kind of blindside it, it's very important to identify this is what I'm feeling here now.

Yeah.

And having that awareness allows us to go to the second phase of what would look like. What is the story that I'm telling myself about this current situation and this emotion that I'm feeling?

Yeah. Yeah. What's your story? I find with. With both that step, the second step, it really helps to have a sounding partner, whether it's your coach, an accountability partner, a peer group, something like that, where you get a little feedback. Because until you start to say it out loud, the conversation, our head is so familiar. But when you start to say it out loud, it sounds funny. And when they look at you quizzically and twist their head like a dog, you start to recognize, oh, this is not like everyone talks this way or thinks this. Thought about this same set of circumstances.

Exactly. It's not like having a broken arm. I've broken my right arm twice in my life, and both times, well, whatever. But the point being, both times I was able to look at my right arm and go, all right, this thing is broken. I need to go to the hospital. I need to go get this cared for. I need to get this taken care of. This is broken. I can feel it. Our brain does not work that way when we have a subconscious block. Maybe we feel anxiety in our chest or in our stomach or our gut or whatever, but we do not often have clarity and are able to identify what that specific root thing is that's causing the problem. Like we can with our physical body. It's a very different thing.

Yeah, you're kind of seguing into the nature of emotion itself. Why don't you talk about that a little bit?

Well, the nature of emotion is why.

Do we feel anything? Why is that important?

Yeah, why is it important? Well, I mean, I was someone for a long time that did everything I could not to feel. But what I actually realize now is that I was feeling so much. I mean, I was feeling so much, I just wasn't comfortable with what I was feeling. And I think that when we block the negative emotions, we're actually blocking the positive, too. Because like I talked about at the very beginning of this, that whole health experience for me was deeply rooted and connected into very positive things that have happened in my life. Time is the only thing that separates any of it. Time separates it from us being able to experience the bad from the good. But when we look at it, it's all the same thing. We're just in different chapters of it. And I think emotion is the same way.

Well, I like to tell myself and remind other people, your story has a happy ending. If it's not happy yet, it's not over. Keep playing.

Right. Well, and we don't have Corona is such a great example of us really not having a whole lot of control of what happens, but we do have control of how we respond. And for those that maybe haven't given themselves an opportunity to look at that now. It's a beautiful, amazing opportunity to do so. Have you given yourself a chance to address how you do respond?

Yeah, it's really interesting and the nice segue because I think that I've met people who live through really dramatic events like the Holocaust or other, like really horrifying traumatic events in war and conflict, that kind of thing, and then use those events to create great outcomes for themselves to become accomplished and beautiful humans, that kind of thing. And then I've seen other people who struggled with self loathing and addiction because they grew up in a suburb and their dad never said he loved them.

I'm like, it's mind boggling, isn't it? I mean, it just goes to show.

It'S not really about what happened to you, but what you're going to do with it.

Exactly, exactly.

And in some cases the most extraordinary things actually reveal stuff. I was talking on another show recently about what happened in England and London during World War II. And they had to go in and shelter and they lived in fear overnight from the German bombings. But then after a while it became normalized. They learned to deal with it. Now you shouldn't really have to deal with the night after night bombing, but sometimes we do. And I'm sure that we will hear amazing tales of survival and stuff from Syrian refugees and from others who've had to endure something. And then they find a way and in the middle of all of it, they find ways to play and laugh and joke in the middle of extreme hardship. And we adapt. There's something really beautiful about all of that to knowing that we're all born of survivors.

Yeah, we are. And I think that's we come from.

A long line of people who figured shit out.

Right. And it's a good reminder for a time like this, in a time of crisis when it might for some feel like, you know, they're losing all their clients and they don't have the answers right now there's a good chance, you know, it's not 100%, but there's a good chance they've gone through something harder in their life at some point. And just remembering how resilient I think humans are so, so resilient and we forget it sometimes when we're in the middle of the crap, but we really are, we are incredibly adaptable. And this might feel like a century long spring, but there's going to be some really amazing things that come out of it.

Right? You think about any amazing story, there's always a moment of where the hero Heroine is tested and put through challenges and has to make difficult decisions. And so, you know, this may be one of those points now for you, or there may be one in the future, but whatever it is that you're going through, it don't stop.

Exactly. I mean, it's the same way in movies. We've got kind of a joke. And in our house where you're watching a movie and it's like, up. We're at the top. We're at the top. Now they're going to take us down because they've built it up. Like, life's very similar. It's so similar.

Very, very similar. And you point out that we all have stories that we tell ourselves. There's a way that we tell our story. If you. I went through certain experiences that I found really rich and made me who I am. And my siblings went through similar ones at different ages and with different perspectives. And I have one who talks about the incredible hardship of his education and his growing up one of my brothers. And I think about the extraordinary richness and the great experiences and things like that. Now, I went to 15 different schools before I finished high school and I finished two years early. So, you know, I. To me, that that was a series of amazing adventures and unique things that gave me a rich, diverse, but unconventional kind of an education. I have a brother who's like, I never could learn anything because we were always moving before I'd mastered stuff, before I figured anything out. Or two different ways of relating to largely the same experience.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. Two people can go through the exact same thing and come out with different outcomes from it.

You're right. And each of us now has a way that we tell the story of our life and how it made us who we are. Except that story is in itself one possible way of explaining those circumstances and looking at those circumstances. And it is in itself limiting and self reinforcing. You tell that over and over again to yourself, in your head, to the people around you, different layers depending on how intimate you are with them. But it becomes a kind of a limiting worldview, right?

Yes, it does. I like to ask myself the question of, will I be proud of how I showed up? I don't think that we need to ignore the feelings and the emotions and the stress that this could be creating in any of our lives right now, but moving through that and processing it and then getting to the other side and then giving ourselves the choice, okay, what am I going to do from here? What action am I going to take. What step am I going to take 90 days from now, If I look back, will I be proud of how I showed up?

Yeah, I was facing, I've spoken about this before, but I was facing a business collapse and personal pain, financial pain and that kind of thing, and failure. And I started to plot about how to recover and how to move on, how to transition instead of confronting the thing. It just seemed all but certain. And I didn't have the way out. And my wife helped me shift it by asking what was the example I wanted to set for our kids. And when I thought about it that way, it changed because I could easily have move through the failure and then just done something new as I've done many times before, like all of those school changes or things like that. And instead I'm like, oh no, I want to teach them to fight. And they were very, very young at the time, let's see, like 7 and 5 or that kind of thing. And I realized that it wouldn't be so conscious for them. But I'm like, no, I want to teach them to fight, fight. I want to teach them to look their problems and to go head first into them. And so that's what I did. And I shifted it. And it was a dramatic shift in my style of leadership from then on. But it came from not thinking of what I'd always done and had worked, but instead, what did I want to be able to say? Looking back from the future.

Yeah. It created that emotional.

Yeah. And for someone other than me, like somebody that I loved deeply and dearly, our kids, our family, our loved ones, that often matters more than what we would do for ourselves.

It does. And honestly, I think that it can be such if you, if you feel like you can't do it for you, do it for somebody that you love. If that's what you need to do, that's okay.

That works. Sometimes it is. And you can look like at the end of my life, I want certain things to be said about me. Right. And so that that's somewhat self created, but it's said by the people who remain behind, who survive me. Right.

Oh, we're all having this journey together.

Well, it's great conversation. I think so many of us, right, we're all dealing with this particular transition as this airs. I don't know, maybe you listen to this years from now, but you'll be dealing with something less commonly held or whatever. We're recording this in the middle of the coronavirus crisis. And so it has that particular shared frame of challenge, but we all go through different challenges, different periods all the time. If you want to know more about Mallory Nicole's work, you can listen to the Abundantly Clear podcast. Abundantly Clear Podcast. We'll put that in the show notes or mallory-nicole.com has links to all her stuff and her posts and things like that. It's really been a pleasure talking to you today. All right, if our show is helpful, please like it and subscribe right now so you get them every week, next week and beyond. Please also share it with somebody else that could benefit from it so we pass it along. That does a tremendous amount to help us. So like it, subscribe it, share it. That makes a big difference. If you've got something to say or something we can help you with, send us an email to infocalingcoach.com I want to give big thanks to Vern Harnish, author and creator of the Scaling Up Framework itself, the original Rockefeller Habits. The show was produced by Lucy Summer. The audio is edited by Albert Burge at Podfly Productions. Podfly Production is an outstanding place to get your show produced and edited. If you'd like to create a show or if you need a place to move your show. It's super cost effective and our show notes are written by Ein Kodina and proofread by Tim McGowan. Thanks again for listening. Keep scaling up.

SA.