Becoming An Effective Human Leader, with Hortense Le Gentil

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I know you probably considered yourself in semi trapping or getting in your own way. We're going to talk about that. Unlocking, getting to your natural leadership today, everybody. I'm Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Scaling up podcast. Our show comes here every week with guest, author, CEO, somebody talking about the world of scaling your business, what it takes to grow and develop the business and grow and develop as a leader. Right. All of that. And there's over 500 shows and more@scalingcoach.com so scalingcoach.com is our website and we've got all the back catalog of shows, our blog posts, tool downloads, a free course on navigating the stages of scaling up, monthly workshops, all kinds of things you'll find@scalingcoach.com yes, the music kind of helps me as you can tell. As you know, if you're a regular listener, you know by now, it helps. So I'm joined by Hortense La Gentil from New York today, who is a remarkable woman with a great business background, one of the MG100 Marshall Goldsmith coaches and certified in his stakeholder centered coaching. She's got a fantastic background and she's got a book on the unlocked leader that in particular we're talking about today. But how do we get and be more effective as a leader, as a human being is the subject of our show. Welcome the show.

Thank you for having me. Vil. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you.

Such a pleasure to have you on. So we met at Harvard last summer and where she spoke to our Scaling up group. By the way, we have another of those coming up in September. September, October. I don't have the date off the top of my head, but there are very few spots left. But if you are one of our regular listeners, you'd like a spot message me open to a handful more CEOs. So that's filling up now. All right, so let's get into our conversation. I think it'd be great if you told Arin it's a little bit about kind of your life journey into business and then moving into coaching. Of course that leads to the book. But before we get into the the core of unlocking yourself here.

Okay. So maybe I should start at the beginning so because I think it was, it was important. Okay. So thank you. We are finished now. Bye, Bill. Thank you very much. No. Okay. So I was born and raised France, as my accent can tell you. And I spent my first I grew up in the middle of horses and I grew up as, as A sho jumper. So I was passionated about horses. It was. The horseman was my best friend, my, my everything. So it was like a passion. And I, I, at that moment, of course, you, you. I didn't realize, but now that I look back at it, because we can connect the dots only when we look back. Right. I understood, I understand now that in fact it taught me a lot about leadership because it's all about how you communicate with your horse. Your horse is not going to talk, so how do you communicate? It's all about empathy. It's all about how to prepare what is your vision. So when you are in the middle of a, of a show and you want to jump, you see an obstacle, you have to prepare, you have to work hard, and then you have to be perfectly with your horse and just three, three steps before you know the obstacle, you have to trust your horse. You don't have anything to do anymore. You cannot. If you do, something is going to be wrong because you know you are not the one who would jump. You just give, you know, the impulse to and, and distrust with your horse and then you jump and then, okay, you see the next step. So it's exactly like leadership, right? It's about vision, about how you communicate with your team. And it's not about you because yourself, you don't jump alone.

So, yeah, it's like a, it's such a beautiful little story if you think about, for this, like, if you are still trying to guide your team, like the horse, all the way through the jump, they're not going to do as well. They're going to screw up. You're working too hard. There's every potential for mistake. There's a point where you have to trust the team, where you create the opportunity for performance, the moment to deliver. And, and then really, if you're going to scale, there is something about letting them do their work.

Exactly. This is what we're talking about, like the horse, right? Because you can jump, but you can not jump very high when you're alone. Okay. So it was the first part of my, of my life. And then I had to take a decision. Yeah, Should I stay there or should I discover another. Another world? And then because I'm so curious, I said, no, no, no. I have to discover. And I had another passion. The other passion was the dream of America. I absolutely wanted to go in US. It was my dream. And don't ask me really why, because this is not that obvious. My parents never, you know, traveled there. But, you know, I grew up with The American dream, all the movies, everything that I saw and everything. So I really wanted to. To come here. And then I found the first school at that time, I think it's. It was the first school who had an exchange with. With a school with university here. So I went to Northeastern University. So I studied both. Marketing. Marketing both in Paris and Boston for one year. So, yes, I made it. So it was great. And I came back to France. I came back to Paris. I was living in Paris and at that time. And then I worked for large corporations for two decades. So communication, advertising agencies, newspaper, things like that. Until I, you know, I was in the middle of my life and I found. I thought that I felt like it was not. Something was not right. And I couldn't express myself correctly completely. I mean, you know, outside everything seems perfect, you know, it was perfect. Perfect life, perfect job, two children, married, perfect. But inside it was no. I knew that it was not right, but I didn't know what to do right. But I decided. So I will maybe share this. I don't know. I don't know if I should share a story here or later.

We always love stories.

Okay. Okay, so I'm going to give you one of my favorite stories. But this is. This is true. So. So I was there in my life. True story. Oh, you never know. You didn't tell me all these true, true stories. No, I'm joking. Okay, so, yeah, so I was there in my life, complicated. So a bit lost in my personal life and professional life and. But I didn't know what to do. So of course, or I did know what I had to do, but it was complicated. Then, of course, everything went south. Bill and I went sick in bed for a month. I was very sick. I was very sick, but I had time to think. And also. And also I had a dream. And my grandmother that at that time passed away. She was already passed away. My grandmother that I just loved, she was a wise woman. She came to me in my dream and she told me, hortense, you have to find the bath of roses. And I said, what it is? You know, what is the path of roses? But tell me where it is. You know, I was there asking in my dream, and she said, you just smile at me. And she said, you know where it is? And she disappeared. And then, of course, I was furious. So can you imagine? You just woke up, you wake up and okay, you had that dream and you know that there is a big message, but you don't know where to start. And that would be later. Then I will understand that what she meant was so, so important. What she meant was that I had to listen to my inner voice and not all the voices around us. So not the voices who told me, the social voices who could tell me, no, you cannot divorce the, you know, the voices that, from people who told you, told me, you cannot be an entrepreneur. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. You cannot, you cannot, you cannot, you cannot, you cannot. And then you hear you are stuck and you feel like, okay, if everybody think that I cannot, I should not, but inside yourself, you know, you know, you know, you know you should do so this is what she meant. And then when I started to listen to my inner voice, I started to free myself. And then I started what I wanted to do. I always dreamed to be an entrepreneur. And I, I was an entrepreneur for a decade. It's another long story. I will not go in this one. But, but I, I became, you know, we created from scratch with, with a partner, business partner that I had recycling, steel industry. So it was a very, it was a niche. It was a very little things. But, you know, something that we created and it was, it. I was absolutely passionate about that. I didn't know anything, but I learned so much because I learned to be just myself. And okay, this is, I know that, that, that. So I know how to manage. I know marketing, I know, you know advertising. I know, you know, I have a good. But I don't know anything about engineering, but that's okay. So I asked, you know, to learn. I said, okay, you know what? I don't know anything, so teach me. I'm just like a little girl and I want to know. Of course I don't need to know everything, but I need to know the basics and understand. And so it was, it was, it was, it was wonderful. We did a lot of things, but. And then after a decade, I think I have something with a decade bill.

We notice things, right? With the long arc of time and we don't notice the little changes month by month by year.

Exactly. I don't know, you know what you change in a decade? You say, oh, okay, wake up. So it's, it's the time to, to think about it, right? Maybe. Yes, I think you're right. And, and then I, I, okay, I felt like, okay, I did, I was very happy and I learned a lot. But, you know, I didn't have any more this creativity side and things that. It was more politics. It was. And I'm not. So, you know, it's not my thing. So it's Good, you know, to learn. But, you know, I was. I felt like, okay, I have to. To move on, but where to do what? I absolutely didn't know. And I was there in my life looking for clues and said, okay, what can I do? What can I do? Okay. And then a friend of mine came to me. Of course, it was usual, but at that time he came to me and said, you know, Hortense, I. I have a very good, good friend of mine who, who is an entrepreneur like you, and you can help him so much. Would you. Would you accept to. To talk to him? I said, of course. You know, and I always accepted. And he said, by the way, you are always this. This girl that everybody you know come to you. And everybody, you know, people come to you, ask you questions. You are that kind of girl. Why you are not a coach? And I said, oh, no, I don't know what a coach is, but I don't want to be a coach. But that's okay. I am an entrepreneur. And. But that's. But of course I'm going to help your friend. But what happened at that time is because that's true. I always been, you know, since I remember that, that. That person, that. That girl who everybody asked me questions about things. I don't know. So, like, you know, I don't know. I have a headache there. What do you think? Is it, you know, should I go to doctor? So. And then I was used to that. I said, okay, so they trust me, maybe so I should find the answer. So I was used to that, and I love that. But anyway, so back to there. He put like a little seed in my brain, and I said, okay, let's see. Then I say, let's imagine that I am a coach. Let's imagine. So what I learned already, you know, before was that I had to stay myself in order to make it happen. You know, if it's a door open, it's because it's my path. If doors not don't open my way the way I want, don't push. It's not going to work. I learned that. So I said, okay. So I was there, Bill, you can imagine me in my little car in Paris parking. And I was like, okay, okay, where I'm going to start? Usually I know where to start a conversation, but there I say, okay, I'm a coach, so where to start? And then, you know, I was a bit nervous, but okay. And I said, okay, so you can make it. Let's go. So I. I closed the door and I went to this Building in Paris. And I met this friend and we started the conversation like usual. And one hour later, my goodness, it was like something happened. It was even physically, it was like. I don't know, it was like an energy. I don't know how to explain. This was. I don't know, it was physically that I understood.

You felt it?

God, yes. Everything. All my life, difficult moment, My passion, my things was led to me, where I was at that moment to help others. Because absolutely didn't realize that I learned so much, you know, professionally, but personally, also because I worked with neuroscience, psychology, whatever it was, but it was for me, just for me, it was not for others. And then at that moment, I understood. And you know what it is when you find your calling, right? You feel, oh, God. Because for years I was thinking why I am different, why I am not like everyone. I have one pass and no, I have to change. You know, I change country, I change things. But everything made sense at that moment. And then everything start from there. So I kept, you know, for a wide boss. And I continued to coach this, this person. And after one month later, he asked me to coach another. A friend of him and then a friend of him. And then I've said, okay, okay, so the doors open. Thank you, but give me some time. I need to prepare. And then this is what I did. And since I so was in two, something like 20, 24, five, something like that. And then since I'm a coach and after Marshall Goldsmith asked me to be a part of his amazing group. So Marshall Goldsmith is a pope of leadership for those who are coaching leadership coach leadership for those who don't know him. And then I moved. I was a lot back to my passion. I wanted to come back to New York. So I move a lot between Paris and us. And I wrote my first book and then my second books, and I moved to New York five years ago now, just before COVID and then I'm living my dream and this is what happened to me. And I continue to Coach, of course, CEOs and senior executives. I continue to learn because I am very curious and I need to learn every day, if not again bored. And so I learn and I'm so happy to be there and to have, you know, to wrote this, this second group, second book just, just after Covid, about how you unlock yourself. So it's a guide to unlock yourself. So now that you know my story, it makes sense that this is what I do. It's. I help others, you know, to find their path of roses to. To Find your where they are trapped and to become the leader that we need today. So the human leader. So move from being a real leader, having all the answers top down to, you know, being a human leader. So. And it's easy to say, not easy to do. And a lot have been said about how we, you know, why we should. We should lead with empathy, but less when it comes to the how. And then this is why I wrote the book.

So before you tell another story from the book and your work and that kind of thing, let's just talk about this human versus hero leader. So I know personally, right, Like, I really aspire to be heroic, right? I really want to, like, deep down, I want to be the hero again and again. And I know that I'm not the only one because look at our movies. We, like, celebrate the heroes. We identify with the heroes. There's a deep, deep hunger to be the heroes. So what's the problem with that? And what's the distinction between being the human leader and the heroic leader?

Because the definition of hero changed. So hero. What is a hero? This is. You should have all the answer and save everyone. And is it possible today? Is it possible to. In this crazy world? Can we say that the world is crazy? Can we say that, Bill? Okay, so how can we, you know, have all the answers? Every day you wake up, there is something new. There is an economy crisis, there is a war. There is a zad. That. That. So, yeah, and you name it.

Yeah.

Okay, so who are you? Even if you are, you're very, very, very clever. And. And it's not about being clever, by the way. It's. It's more about knowing. It's all about, you know, the left brain. So it's being rational. Okay? You cannot. So if you cannot, this is like the horse. There's a story with the horse. If you cannot. And this is good because anyway, we are all human beings, so nobody has all the answer. So. And it's okay. And it's too much for your children, too much to hold if you think that you should have all the answer. No, no, no, no. The real hero today is someone who know how to work with their team, who see their team, who can. Who can, you know, create an environment of trust and make them grow. And it's like a captain of a ship that there's much, much like that, much more like that. It's okay. You have the vision, you give the vision, and it's with all your crew that you're going to go where you want to go. All together. And it's all together that you're going to go through the storm because, you know, the ocean can be calm and the ocean, you know, you can have a storm in one minute and a half. So, okay, you need everyone on board and it's all together. And then you become a hero because. Because you go where you want to go and you unleash, you know, people. You unleash the magic, you know, of Uber Jolie as a human magic. And you. And this is, this is when you, You. Yeah, you start to be a hero, a real hero, because people are going to remind that about you. Think about it.

Yeah. So it's. It's being so. It's leading the team and connecting with them as human beings versus having all the answers and being the sole performer driving everything. It's a real challenge. I've seen some of my clients do this. I saw one CEO at a fairly large company that we coach through a fairly significant valuation, but then try to be superman and try to give everyone the answers and send messages to people at three in the morning and file around the world and hand in everything. And the company ultimately didn't do well and the value plummeted because he wouldn't stop. He kept trying to do that. And we see that again and again with companies where the leaders compromise. Either the ultimate, like the CEO, coo, or a leader of a particular division or department will compromise it by just like trying to drive everything themselves. And the team isn't as strong.

Exactly. Exactly. And you are not motivated. You know, if you work in that kind of environment, you're not motivated. You just do it because you need to work. That's all. Makes all the difference. You don't unlock, you know, the, you know, the, the voice of everybody. They're matching.

I think the other thing that really stands out to me is you. It's not about being clever. You can't possibly have all the answers. The world is too complex. Things are changing too much. And there are moments where we're deluded, where we think we have an answer or should or could, and we think we're smarter than. Especially if you've already made a lot of money, if you've had some success, you start to think that you are smarter than everyone else and not just lucky and hardworking and that kind of thing. It's fascinating. In preparation, you shared a story of a senior exec who was slated to be CEO but struggled with some trauma and maybe expand on that story.

Yeah, so, so, so, yeah, just to jump on what you said just before this, what is important here, you know, with the stories and what I'm trying to. The point that I'm trying to explain is all of us, we have, we are trapped somewhere at one point. So it's, it's belief, it's mindset that help us. You know, until now, like you said, maybe it's helped you. Of course it helps you. You know, when you are a hard worker, it helps you to go where you are today. But now it doesn't help you anymore. That, that doesn't. That don't help you. Sorry. Help you anymore. So you are, it's holding you back from moving forward. This is, this is what that, that is. And this is his feeling when explaining the story before. But I'm going to go back to that. But this is a story of. This is this feeling of I know I should do it, I should differently, but I'm scared. I'm afraid. So this is what we're talking about. And then after you find your mind trap, where are you trapped? And what are the voices behind that? And then I had. And I see two big family with trauma. So the first one is trauma, trauma not overcome. And, and the voices behind that. So. And I'm going to go to a story to explain. It was one of my clients years ago and he was, he was, he was expected to be the next CEO of the company. So everything went good for him. And in order to do that, of course he had to go in front of the board and interviews, right?

Yes.

And then out of nowhere where build out of nowhere, his behavior changed completely. He started to talk a lot. He didn't listen at all. And he didn't let time to anybody to ask questions. It was talking. Yeah, yeah. And then of course he didn't get the job because nobody understood his, you know, behavior change of behavior. So he came to me and he told me the story and he said, and he told me, I don't know where it's coming from. I really don't know what happened. I said, okay, so let's figure out where it's coming from. You are trapped somewhere for sure. And that we revisited his life and then he remembered that years before he was at school, he was a student and he had, he had to pass an exam. And then he had to be in front of, you know, a group of. A group of teachers to do that. And one of the teacher didn't let him talk. He didn't. He was interrupting him all the time. He didn't let him talk so you can imagine this young guy, the A student, very well prepared, and he couldn't express himself, so he was shocked and he created a trauma. I'm going to go back after to the definition of trauma. Created a trauma. So it's this high emotion. This is what the trauma is. High emotion will also. Make you insecure.

Yeah.

And then. And then the teacher, it was not enough. The teachers told him, you know, young guy, I don't know what you're going to do in your life, but I can promise you something. You will never be a CEO because. Oh, yeah, because all your emotions are written on your face. Can you imagine, Bill, this poor guy, you know, thank you, thank you.

I'm laughing at the humanity of the situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because we get these things and what are they thinking? Parents say them, you know, we say things like that. And then people hear them with. And carry them for a lifetime.

Exactly. But he was not aware of it. So it was a long time ago. It was graduated, you know, he had this great job, blah, blah, blah. But in fact, he's, you know, you know, the voice of his teacher. So became a commandment, you will never be a CEO. And also, you know, this voice told him, okay, a CEO doesn't have to show emotions, by the way. Yes, is what he said. Right. And then this young guy was not aware of that until the time, the first time in his life. And that he had to face it. Yes, he was, you know, expected to be the next CEO. And in his unconscious, in fact, his unconscious told him. The amygdala told him. Oh, oh, okay, now fight. Nobody's going to interrupt you. Not again. You're going to make your point, and that's all. Okay? So go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. And then this is what happened. But it was not the place, it was not the moment. It was not right. But he was not aware of it. He had to be aware of it. And then this is what we did. So he was locked there. He was locked in this trauma. And in this case, it was trauma and voices. Right? And the voices behind. Sometimes you have only the trauma. But. And you look for voices also. But, okay, so it was there. And then we challenged because, okay, so now we know we have a trauma and we unlock. How do we unlock ourselves? How do we do this mind shift? How do you change your mindset? I asked him three questions. Is it true, you know, thinking about, you know, the voice. Okay, is it true that you cannot be a CEO? Is it relevant? Is it helpful today? Repeat Is it. Is it true? Is it relevant? Is it helpful today? And if at least one of it. Of it is, is no, the answer is no. So let go. And you walk on, let go. Because also it's easy to say, but, yeah, walk on, let go. Yeah. And work on lingo. This is what we did. So let go. You know, is challenging the beliefs, challenging the voices, challenging that. What do you. And go back to yourself. Do you know, voice. What do you think? You cannot be a CEO. And by the way, what do you think? You cannot show emotions. And this guy was just. He was. It was so. Yeah, it was very clever and he was very empathetic, but he didn't want to show it. It was unbeliev. Believable. And then, okay, he started to stress, you need courage to do that because that's not, you know, that's not easy. And he started to write his own story. Who we want to be, how we want to be remembered.

Future story. Be the author of his life.

Be your author of your life. And then, you know, go back to yourself. Okay, what drives you, what is important, what are your values? And this is also the exercise about. I often ask my client to write their eulogy as a eulogy. And it's not easy, it's not fun. But think about it. When all of us, we will not be around anymore, what do you think people are going to remember to remind about you? This is so important. We are not a job. We are not a title. This is what we do. Yes, but I can guess, you know, that people are going to remember you as a human being. Oh, is. She was there when I needed. Yes, they were there when I felt. Listen, I felt empower. I felt seen, I felt heard. He helped me. She helped me, you know, grew up. This is what people are going to remember. So think about it one minute, because it's time.

Yes. Just to underscore that one, because I use that regularly as well. A lot of time leaders think about their obituary, not the eulogy. They think about. Well, in my lifetime, I want to build this company and I want to develop this thing, and I want to do that. And I want, like, all these things that they want to accomplish, and there is a place for that, right. In your newspaper or somewhere. There's going to be maybe something written about your life, and they're gonna say, you had so many children and you were CEO of this company or whatever. They will say those things, but that isn't really what you care about, what they care about, what you really care about is that who are the people that matter to you? And what do they say right after you're dead and gone? The people who love you gather around and they say nice things about you. But specifically, what nice things do you want them to say?

That's important.

If you're an artist, you want them to say, you know, I was touched by their beautiful art, like. And if you're a leader, there's probably. You want them to say something about your generosity, about how you develop them, about how you contributed to their lives.

Exactly, exactly. And that's why I love this exercise. Because geology, we realize that we are not one. One thing, you know, it's not all about job, a work or job. No, we are, we are. Maybe we are parents, we are children. We are. We have friends, we have family, we have community. And we have. And yes, and we have a job and we also have an environment. And this is all that, that makes who we are. And just imagine imagining that all those people are here one day to talk about you. You know, we have to think about that. This is important.

And what is really like liberating when you figure that out, right. That can be a focal point. That can be the purpose of your life. The central theme. There can be something that brings the way you lead, the way that you are in your family, the way that you are in the community, like that can be through everything, right. This, this essential quality and whatever words you have for it.

Exactly. Because this is your true nurse. This is your purpose, this is your why. This is your driver. So you know, you know it. And it's not the driver of your brother, sister, friend, partner, children, teacher. No, it's yours. And this is what my grandmother talk. Talk about your inner voice. I am a big believer that each of us, each of us, we are, we have a special talent. And this is our mission in life, our duty to find it and to making grow to help others. That will help you first. But. But after it's, you know, in service of others, all of us. You were talking, you know, about, you know, an artist. Yes. One day you realize, oh my goodness, I can express myself so beautifully. I don't know about. In drawing or whatever. So this is your, your way, this is your expression. And by the way, what do you want to say? And every artist know that, ah, what I want to say, you know, maybe they don't know at first, but after they know, they have a tendency and they believe in that, that, that. And this is what they want to give us. This is all about empathy, by the way. But, yeah, it's. It's. Oh, you know, it's. Yeah, it's. What do you want to tell the world? And in your way, you don't have to write a book. No, no, no. It's. It's just the way you. You are. You believe. And for me, it's easy. I am in a mission of freeing everyone from their mind traps because this is what happened to me. Listen to your inner voice. This is important. Be courageous. Face your fears, find your mind traps and free yourself, because after that, what you have is a different life. You are so happy. You are so much so better, so more so, more successful. And so you and your environment, of course, because it's not just all about you. No, it's your duty to do it. But then because you did it, you made it, your environment is going also to benefit from that. It's really a cascade. A cascade. You say cascade, it's a cascade. It's a butterfly effect. It's one person that you know, others you know.

It's so brilliant and subtle, but powerful to notice. There's this. This notion that, like, I have to figure out what my business is, that I have to create. Like, I've. I need to figure that out, like, what my ideal job and businesses and. And all of that comes later in the context or this through line of this purpose, this thing about your life, like, when you know that you could do lots of different things and just bring that quality to them. And they. They're awesome. They are great. You know, like, I. When I first did that eulogy exercise, I imagined my children and my grandchildren, maybe some people I worked with, and. And I just wanted them to say that I was generous. I wanted them to say that I was a contribution to them in their life. And, you know, every time I think about that, I'm emotional and I moved by what's important to me.

Yes.

Sometimes more than others. Today, it's pretty strong. And that's a beautiful, powerful thing, because it doesn't matter what I do in my life, if I have that quality, it all turned out right. But then I started to notice the way that I led my business, the way that I conducted myself in the neighborhood, all of the things that I do when I was doing that, having fun, even something very hedonistic. Right. It's something purely pleasurable for me. If I shared it or did it in a way, that was a gift there. You know, there was me being that. And so for a little while, I ran triathlons. And marathons. And I had been pretty heavy and sedentary. I sat on the couch, I, like, didn't do anything. And then I'm like, I'm going to run marathon, triathlon. So I started doing it. And this is like, definitely, definitely for me, for my fitness, for my looking good and my personal time. And then I was running down the street here near my home one morning, and it's beautiful day and like that, but my body's dragging, that kind of thing. And then somebody, I can't remember now, they honked or they waved at me, you know.

Yeah.

And. And I didn't think too much about it. I'm like, wave back at them, you know, I. Who knows who that was? Maybe somebody who knows me. I. I don'. But then like the next week or the next day, I was driving down the street and I saw somebody running and I kind of waved at them. And I thought to myself, I'm a runner, I should get out and run. And I realized that runner was inspiring me. And then I like, oh, but I'm a runner and I inspire other people. And then I thought about who are all of the people that honk or that wave at me, that think about their fitness. And then I went out to run again and I noticed that I stood up a little higher, I ran a little taller, I carried my head. I was like. And I had this thought that what inspired me as a runner was to be a shining example of human being and not to be like, oh, look at me like a peacock, but, like, look at me, join me, you know, be, you know, live your best life. So I was like running proudly to say you could run too, you know, without saying anything.

But this is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, Bill. And I can feel it. It's. You make me move. I'm very move also. And what you share is so beautiful. It makes me think about Forrest Gump. Remember this, this movie, Right? So, yeah, he was so, you know, he didn't even know why he was running, but. Yeah, but everyone was behind it. And, and this is when it makes a difference because you see in what you do make. Give sense to somebody else. And this is what we are all interconnected as human being. And this is. It makes all the difference because you don't run to only for, you know, for yourself and for, you know, your. But you, you are conscious that doing. In doing that you help others and you give them back. You know, this. Yes. This.

Yes, yes.

This mirror of you can do it too. And I, I Can understand that. So, well, it's. And after, you know, as you said, you stand up and this is how you show up. Because, you know, yes, this is. This is. I know that I give hope to somebody. So, yes, you made my day.

Not just for me. Yeah. So while we are running long in our show, why don't you. Let's just kind of talk about some. Some key takeaways. I think the things are that I'm noticing is that there. There is an opportunity to discover, like, who you really are, what really matters to you through inquiry, through thinking about, in particular, the eulogy exercise. And then to look back at the limitations I'm hearing from you, to think about what are the traumas of the things. What are your blocks? What are your things that you've got yourself trapped in? And then your three questions, asking yourself, is it true? Is it relevant? What was the other one? Is it true? Is it relevant?

Is it helpful Today, because maybe. No, today. Today, because maybe it helped you before.

Sometime, but not anymore.

Yeah, yeah, this is a point. Yes, this is exactly that. This is really. This, you know, going to. This, to this process of take the time to reflect and, and find, you know, and. And find where you are trapped. All of us, we are trapped. What do you do? What do you want to do at? So find where it's coming from. So track the source and challenge the. Challenge the beliefs and change the voice behind that. With a three question.

Yeah.

Is it reserved? Is it helpful? And then write your own story. So write. Take the eulogy, the eulogy exorcist exercise, and then decide how you want to show up. What is your driver. Go back to your life. You will understand in five minutes. So go ahead and go and go and go.

And then the other thing is, like, the story will change, right? Think you'll go through, like, events in the world happen, but then you have. Because you're the author, you could. You could do a rewrite.

You rewrite. Exactly. This is. The beauty is that you don't have to. To be in. In a box. No, the beauty is. Okay, okay, I have to rewrite the story because something happened. What did you learn?

Yeah, okay.

And then you move forward. See, you know, I share my story. It took me a while before understanding all that. So that's why I want to try to give this.

Well, the process behind you. The book is there behind you. The unlocked leader. Dare to free your own voice, lead with empathy and shine your light in the world. It's a great read and a great conversation. Thank you for joining us today. The link to that and all the RS will be in the show notes. You'll find those on our website@scalingcoach.com and scalingcoach.com is also where all the back catalog, all the other books and shows and tools and downloads, our monthly workshops, our course on the stages of Scaling up, all that and more. The Unlock leader on Amazon and wherever else you get your favorite books, there's a place. Thanks so much for joining us today, Hortense, and I hope to see you again real soon. Yeah.

Thank you everyone.

Thanks to Vern Harnish, author and creator of the Scaling Up Framework and the Rockefeller Habits that came before it, and the folks at store on Cameron, Seth Christel, the rest of the team who helped us get our show out and produced and everything groovy every week. Until next time, keep scaling.