Connecting During Online Times with Patrick Galvin

There we go. Now we're live. We're about to talk to Patrick Galvin. Patrick's an old friend from EO San Francisco. Great conversation about connecting online. It feels like we're so far from each other.

How do we connect?

That's the subject of this, like bringing humanity and connection in a time when we're not so normally alone, like we always are. Letting everyone get started. Looking forward to a great conversation. Patrick, welcome to the show. Reminder to our listeners, we bring a new show like this every week to you and then we put them out live and then later on audio and itunes and places like that. And we've done 226 shows or something like that at this point. Right. So we've been doing for a couple of years with all kinds of authors, entrepreneurs, gurus, business leaders and even a magician, a comedian.

I heard the comedian one. That was great.

Matt Kazam. Yeah, awesome. So that's our show. And not only are the show notes available and you can go hear things that might have to do with scaling your business and scaling your leadership, but you can download the tools, there are free offers, that kind of thing, all that stuff@scalingcoach.com also we know right now the demand for coaching is an all time high because people are grappling with changing times and if we can help you coach you, find a coach, any of that kind of thing, we'd love to be a resource for you. So contact us, find us@scalingcoach.com so let me just tell you a little bit of Patrick and I'll let him say more. But Patrick and I are friends from what was then Yeo San Francisco, probably 20 years ago, I think.

20 plus man, 20 plus years ago.

There's a little organization called Young Entrepreneurs. We're not looking quite so young anymore.

Speak for yourself, you're more gay than I am, dude.

Anyway, so we're in the. And then Patrick has since moved. You're up in the Portland area, right?

That's right, in Portland, Oregon, the Rose City.

Involved in a family visit. This time he's moved on. He's got a group, the galvanizing group that he'll talk more about and he speaks and coaches and that kind of thing. But Patrick's work is all around this work of the book the Connector's Way, how to build a business one relationship at a time. So how do you cultivate relationships and that kind of thing? This is a great topic for me because this is a big area of weakness for me. Lucy could tell you my Wife could tell you I love to be out, I love to talk and that kind of thing, but I'm really an introvert at heart. I don't manage relationships well. I take them for granted. I'm self absorbed, I'm arrogant. Right. So, but, but I would like, if you called me at three in the morning, I'd get up and go help you. You know, so there's, I recognize it. And yet it lives for me a little bit differently. I have a test I use. We'll get into that in a bit. But guys, Patrick, he speaks Spanish, Portuguese, he lives up there. He's got a daughter who's in those excellent tween years, right?

Oh, yeah. Yep, yep. And we're homeschooling now like everyone else in our great state of Oregon. Yay.

That actually makes the middle school, junior high school experience better.

Well, you know, we're, we're not, we haven't cracked the top 100,000 homeschools in Oregon, but we're, we're working at it.

Welcome to the show, Patrick.

Thank you. Good to see you again, Bill.

So to fill in a little bit more, I just did some broad stroke things about your background. Tell us about your background, how you became an entrepreneur and a little bit more of that.

Well, Bill, when you And I met 20 plus years ago, I was in my family's furniture business. And I went into that after graduating from business school. I went to work for a couple different companies. And then I thought, well, I have the right name to rise to the top of this business. So I joined my family's business and because I was the self declared marketing expert in my family, my dad said, hey, you have free reign to do all of our marketing. And I thought, hey, I'm a smart mba. I know how to do this. It's going to be easy. I just benchmark, look what everyone else in the industry is doing and just do better than they are than they're doing. What everyone was doing at the time was spending money on advertising. I thought, well, that's easy. I just have to advertise better than my competition. So I became a very effective check writing machine and I was spending money hand over fist. And I remember as if it happened just the other day of being in the showroom, standing next to my dad on a very slow Saturday when most business comes in and he looks at me and he says, so this is what $150,000 buys. Because in my first six months in the family business, I burned through our entire marketing budget. And yes, we Sold some things from people who saw those ads, but there was no ROI really to speak of. And that was a. That really upset my app. Oh, yeah, I was good at that. I was good at spending money, but the ROI not there. And it was very humbling because I was supposedly the marketing genius. I had gone to a good mba and. But the thing is, what I didn't learn was what really is what allows businesses to succeed. So in our organization, Yeo I started talking to people, and what I discovered was the commonality for companies that were really succeeding. Those were the companies that were really developing rapport and connection with people in such a way that they were coming back to them, that they were referring folks in. So it was about cultivating a relationship. And sadly, I didn't learn that in business school. It cost me $150,000 in wasted advertising for me to figure out what really drove business. And that was an aha moment for me that changed everything. That changed what I did in the furniture business ultimately got me out of that business. About 19 years ago. Starting the galvanizing group was it was that aha. That business is really about developing relationships. And it sounds so simple, but so often we want to chase the shiny objects out there. And it's not about that. It's not about that at all.

So how long did you work in cultivating relationships and coaching and teaching and doing that before you made this your business?

Well, I was in the family business up until about 2001. And then in 2001, we started a business that was really focused on relationships that companies had with the media so the media would tell their story. We started as a PR company. So we began as a classic PR company and did that for about 10 years. And then PR changed. The social media came on the scene. More of our clients said, hey, can you help us with our messaging? Could you help us tell our story on social media? Can you help us frame our story in our websites and our electronic communication? So we really started doing that, and it was fun, but it's really. I love working with the individual. So my book the Connector's Way, took me into the market of helping people think about relationships. And we're not hired by individuals, we're hired by companies to help their teams develop deeper and stronger connections with people.

Interesting. And so you've been working at this for a while, evolving from PR to messaging to relationship.

Exactly.

Focus. And so talk to us about. Well, I don't know, why don't we start with some of the stories and like that Kind of thing. So maybe the landscape company is a good place to talk to. I know you shared a story as we were getting ready for this show.

Well, you know, it doesn't matter how small or large a business is. It's all about connection. So a recent client of ours, big well known landscaping company in Portland, they do $100,000 hardscaping, soft landscaping jobs and people's backyards, front yards. It's very easy to just focus in on doing great work and they do excellent work, but they're not necessarily reaching out and connecting with neighbors. They're not necessarily developing a reputation in the neighborhood. So, you know, with our encouragement, the folks on that team are making sure that people, when they have these beautiful backyards that have been created by this company, that they're holding social events that the company pays for and encourages them to invite as many people as possible. This is pre Covid that we were working with and it would be a little bit different right now. So it's really developing a reputation not based on how great they say they are, but they know if they sponsor a party in someone's backyard that has been transformed, those people are going to be so ecstatic to share their story and how they did it. And obviously they did it with the help of a company that's more, more powerful than any form of marketing. So it's something that they've offered up to their landscape designers and to their project teams, but no one was really taking advantage of it. And when we started working with them and coaching their people, explaining the importance of developing rapport and connection beyond just a sale, thinking beyond that transaction and that job done to how do you leverage that to give it more exposure in the neighborhood? Well, it really changed things for them. So that's a, that's a very grounded in the dirt example of relationship building.

That's cool. And you could see it like right within the neighborhood. And lots of us live in neighborhoods where we, we don't necessarily know all of our neighbors. Some people like they know everybody around them and other people know a couple. My wife's like, I don't even know those guys across the street. And I'm like, oh yeah, I don't know those guys, but I do know those guys and I know that guy. And yeah, yeah, like it's a mixed bag of things. What do you know what that company is doing now or what do you have any examples of how people are dealing now in light of COVID Well.

You know, right now that company is doing some interesting things so they're actually doing video now, which they did before when they complete a job. The designers who did that job now are doing a video, and they can get a video testimonial from one of their clients saying, easy to work with great people. Right now we're in the age where people don't necessarily want to read, and the video you can do, it's socially distance friendly. And everyone's walking around with a great camera now and their smartphone. Yeah, exactly. I think video is a really cool thing that they never did before. So now their project teams, when they're done, are going out, and if they can get an interview with the customer, I encourage them to do that. More often than not, it's just showing the beautiful landscape and posting it up, saying, hey, this is my most recent project. It was really fun. You know, here were the challenges, here's how we address them. And that's a lot more interesting than just a written case study.

That's. That's cool. So are you. What does the work look like today that you're doing?

Well, what we're really leaning into these days, it's something we started two years ago. So my book, the Connector's Way, is a business parable. It's a story about building business one relationship at a time. It's the story of someone whose business is failing because he's a poor relationship builder. And through a series of rather fortuitous events, he meets some mentors who show him the way. And what I did with this book when it came out in 2016 is it opened up all these industries that I had never spoken in before. And people said, well, I want to be like that guy in the story. How can I become like that guy? And I thought going around giving speeches was going to be enough to transform people, but it really. Speeches, no matter how good you are, you get people excited and enthusiastic. Yeah, it's very shallow. And you know this. You know this from your. From your work. It's all about coaching, you know, scaling coach. Great program. It's about digging in and doing the work. So what we've been doing a lot over the past two and a half years, and thankfully, we started before COVID is working with companies in small, what we call connecting cohorts, groups of six. And we get six people together over the course of three months, take them through our curriculum. We have online courses, but it's small groups, six people. And it's beautiful because when people come together as a group, they hold each other accountable to what each one in the group says they're sharing best practices and this has been the best of all times for us because our clients, which are large enterprises, now have at home workforces, companies that said they never were going to do this, and people don't have the water cooler to hang out with, hang out around and share ideas. So coaching in small groups is fulfilling a huge need because we coach how to build relationships. But at the same time, the real value add for a client is they see how it's so important to keep internal relationships strong. So working with these small groups has been really, really powerful for us.

You're coaching cohorts through cohorts.

Yeah.

They have a particular intention on getting better at relationship.

Yes, exactly, exactly. So sometimes we have a fortune, actually a Fortune 50 company as a client, and we're coaching their relationship management team. So these are people who've been building relationships professionally for decades. And here's the great thing, no matter where people are, they can get better. And the ironic thing is the best relationship builders are the ones who see the greatest need to grow and expand. It's sort of like when you're really good at something, you're also very aware of where there might be holes or opportunities to improve your skill set. So we have discovered it's a little counterintuitive that high performing teams actually benefit the most. It's not to say low performers and people who really don't feel comfortable or just have never been trained. It's no one's fault. I mean, it's not something most people are taught in school. I certainly wasn't. But what's really cool about the curriculum that we use is it can be scaled up or down according to the needs of the group and according to the level of sophistication that people have.

So let me do something a little risky. Let me ask you two questions. First of all, I confess that when I think about strengths, influence, persuasion, pitching, that kind of thing, strategy, thinking, planning, those are areas of strength for me. Execution consistently and relationship are weaker areas. And so I tend to just hire for it and try to give away more of it. So if I need to send a thank you note, Lucy puts the thing in front of me and says, okay, fill it out and then she'll send it out. So like, that's the kind of thing that I won't need, I won't think to do. When I send emails out, I don't, I'm fairly terse in them. And I don't mean to be unkind. I'm just like focused on the objective at hand and the whatever's on my mind and, but not like, hey, how are you and what's going on and how the kids been? And I like do almost none of that. So Lucy will fill in a little bit of that. And when I hired her, I asked a question that I've asked many times in the past that is sort of my tell. And because my wife is also a relationship oriented person, unlike me, I noticed that she and I leave a party in two distinctly different ways. Right. I finished the conversation with you. I look around the room, I kind of make eye contact people. I walk towards the door, I look back to the room one more time, I wave goodbye to anyone who might be seeing me going. So it doesn't look like I'm slinking off and then I'm gone, right? But like I'm done and I'm out of there. Between the time I decide it's time to go and I'm gone. Left to my own devices is maybe three minutes.

You're like my wife, she, she has the same modus operandi. So I totally get it now.

My wife says goodbye to each and every one of her friends as she goes, but that precipitates another 5 to 20 minute plus conversation. So the leaving is more than an hour departure. So I'll ask people, what does it look like when it's time to leave a party with some dear friends. Right. And of course, Lucy answered the question correctly. Lucy produces our show, assists with a lot of our client contact, that kind of thing. Right. Perfect role. So mostly I've thought, don't even try, just give it away, but recognize it needs managing and like that. So what coaching or what would you tell me to be? Because I know it needs attending to, right?

Well, you know, one of the things when people think about relationship building. Lucy's terrific, by the way. Her communication with these, top notch. You made a great hire. She's fantastic. There are things, there are things though, you don't, you don't want to delegate, Bill. So I think about some of the best things that have happened in our business existence over the last decade. And it is just that personal touch that I could not give to somebody else. And right now, for instance, I'll do a lot of videos. So I meet somebody at a conference, they say, hey, great speech, enjoyed it? Or I've met them in an industry event or now at a virtual event, and I'll follow up with a short little video. I'm doing more of that. I do tons of short little videos saying, hey, I love the conversation with you. Really fun. Sounds like your company is going through some things that are very interesting and I think our program might be one that could really help you out. Here's why. And maybe could just set up a time to talk. And now when I talk in the COVID era, I notice when I do video versus phone about three to four times higher success rates than when I have a phone call. So I'm always looking for a video conversation. But I couldn't give that to an assistant. An assistant isn't going to be able to remember the conversation, nor is that person going to be able to create a message. I'll drop a video message into someone's LinkedIn box saying, hey, it's fun seeing you at the event. I just wanted to follow up. Most people don't send video messages within LinkedIn. You can get more accomplished for your business with a video to one person than you sometimes can with a video that you're throwing on YouTube and hoping the world sees. It's all about really focusing in on what's important to that person, what's in it for them and when they get a one off video like that, it resonates. And a lot of our best sales come from that. So I think there are some mass communication things and you've got lots of guests on your show, you've got lots of things to do and that's perfect to hand off to someone as capable as Lucy, but for the big fish, so to speak. I don't think you want to necessarily give your fishing pole to somebody else.

Yeah, so I definitely talk to people. The primary contact that relationship does live with me and then I try to compliment or add to it. And I like what I hear that in this thing of like, pardon me. I like what I hear about like thinking and making it personal and relevant to them and also letting a little bit of yourself show in particular. Now, using video, I'm obviously not afraid to get on camera. I have good camera lighting. Right. But, but that, but letting a little more of yourself show. Sometimes though, I feel like, like one of the things that I use a lot these days with certain clients prospects is texting and that seems kind of there's danger there. What are your thoughts about using text or other like non. You know, non real time?

Yeah, I, I am, I am what's called and my communications agnostic. So I am happy to operate on whatever medium I think is going to be most effective for cultivating relationship with someone. So I'm send out a lot of handwritten cards. I've done, you know, a couple thousand of them over the last seven years. I still do them. They still resonate in a great way. For some people, they're really meaningful. For others, a video makes great sense. I have some friends who text me. I have someone who sent me a video. I responded in a video, who responded in a video. And we only communicate by video. So I think communication in today's world is not so much what you like to do, but more what that other person likes to do. And if you can figure that out, you're so far ahead. Because sometimes people will think this person's on my wavelength, because literally you are. Because they're a texter and you're texting them back, or they're an emailer and you're emailing them back. So I think, like, for. Like is a really good rule when it comes to communications. When we have all of these tools at our disposal, it's not what we want, it's what other people want.

Yeah, it's really great. So meet them where they are.

Exactly.

The danger that I've often seen is on certain communications, you don't hear tone and voice, and you don't expand on things. And there's a lot of opportunity for misunderstanding, which is where, like, being expedient, responsive text is fantastic for that. Right. And certainly, you know, I had string of whatsapps that were coming at me this morning, starting at before 5:00am wow.

Yeah, it's.

I was working with a group in Kuwait this morning.

Okay. Yeah. WhatsApp with international is a big deal. Yeah.

So why don't we get into some of the rules and thoughts around the. The book. You've got some principles or that kind of thing. Why don't you work us through some of that? Because I think that's useful.

So the main character in the connector's way comes away at the end of the story with seven essential rules for building business one relationship at a time. And I know, Bill, the first one is one that you're going to relate to knowing your triathlon story and how you really sort of turned it on as a athlete later on in life. Not, I don't know how many. 45 triathlons. Is that what you said on that podcast? Wow, that's amazing. So the first rule is you've got to nurture your body and mind in such a way to create positive energy and enthusiasm that attracts others. So the character is very autobiographical. In 2008, 2010, I was not Living by that rule. Our company, which was focused on PR at the time, we lost our major clients. Our ship was sinking very quickly, and I thought I could send the masterful email that would rope in new clients. So I was working late, you know, at the desk, trying to, like, do my email magics, put together that magic phrase that would bring people into our net. Nothing was working. I was depressed, dejected. Not exercising, wasn't going out and meeting with people. And my wife, who works with me in the business, said, you know, you've got to start moving again. And I had stopped and I just didn't. I was really low energy. And she encouraged me to just get out there, start running and swimming. I didn't do anything crazy like you did with the triathlons. I didn't need to go to that extreme just to feel my energy coming back through regular exercise. And then all of a sudden, I was able to not just try to send a magic email, but set up meetings and go out and get face to face. And before COVID I had to sign up. My office says nothing happens at this desk now. Everything happens at the desk. But before COVID I needed to actually go out and be in the world. But if you don't have energy, you can't do it. So just physical exercise, taking care of your body, taking care of your mind. 10 minutes of mindfulness every day. Transformative for me, I mean, when I sit down in the morning and I go through my Calm app and I focus on something that tries to get me out of my own head, to just focus on breathing, to just let go of all the sort of monkey thoughts that go through the mind. When I pick up a phone or I'm on a zoom with someone, I'm listening to them better. I'm not thinking about what I'm going to be doing later on in the day, just that that focus on trying to be in the present moment that is key for relationship building. If you can't be present with somebody right here, right now, are you really hearing them? Are you able to ask them the questions that they need to have you asked so they get that you understand what their needs are? I don't think you can. So for me, meditation is a big part of my. My practice to be a good relationship builder. So there's a lot of little things that one can do. I'm kind of curious, what, what do you do, Bill, to center yourself around that? First rule, Nurturing your mind and body.

So just a minute ago, while you were talking, I got a Whole string of alerts and I hadn't silenced my phone and like all the things came up and I looked down on it and, and although you're just talking, I'm listening to you and whatever, my attention goes away for a few minutes. I'm sure people watching us in this thing will have noticed my eyes go down. I. You may, depending on the camera on the screen, you may or may not have noticed it. But I think there's managing that, that I hear like just really being present, listening.

Yeah.

And then there's the like the, the feeling, the good feeling, the centeredness, the place of abundance and, and vitality, strength, all that that we feel when we have some activity. So today I've had almost none. I got up 4:30 this morning, I got on a session with Kuwait and. And then I've had almost no time outside. I've been going back to. Back to back to back things. In fact I was late a couple of minutes to start this session because the last one ran a little bit late but. So it's been like that. But yesterday I got both a bike and a run in and in the middle of COVID I realized my whole like fun and play and exercise and outdoor time. To me those all things are kind of packaged together. And the triathlon stuff that I did for a long time, I'm not doing them right now. But I, I needed to just shake it up and do something new. So I started doing other kinds of things. Surfing and sailing and skateboarding and I needed something new because the place I rented boats from. So for years I've been a member of this sailing club and we rent boats and that kind of thing. In fact, you probably know Anthony Sandberg.

He'S a very good friend of mine.

Yeah, so Anthony and I've been friends and I've been a member of his club. Rented from him for like 26 years and he's been shut down with the restrictions and the, and the COVID and that was, would be one of my key outlets. If I was going to be home and not traveling on the road, I would go sail because I don't love the surf around here and it's cold and I'm spoiled and like that. So anyway, so I wasn't getting anything so I had to bring something new and I, I went and I, I found this new thing and I'm like, oh, I'm going to learn how to wing surf. And wing surf is like. It's not quite a kite. You just hold it in your hand but it's also not attached to the board like a wind surfer. It's a new thing. And so I, like, just started doing. I've only been out, like, three times now, but. But I'm like, oh, now I need to buy all the gear and get that. That's a whole other fixation, right? But after I did that first time of doing it, my whole mindset was changed. I came, and then I went. The second time, my wife's like, wow, you're in a complete, completely different mood. And I'm like, yeah, I feel awesome. I was in the water, There was sun, there was wind. I'm, like, learning how to do something. I'm. I'm getting to where I can do it, you know, and, like, completely changed my outlook and how I was with people for the next day was, you know, like a step up. More generous, more playful, more alive. Right?

I say, if you want to be a good relationship builder, the most important relationship you have is with yourself. If you're not in good relationship with yourself, it's really hard to be in good relationship with others, Whether it's personal or professional.

I think that's really, really important and really surprising and profound. How could I get more. And a lot of times we think about it as an introvert. Sometimes some relationship activities can be pretty draining, right?

Absolutely. My wife would agree with you 100%.

But, like, I'm a little exhausted. I enjoy it, and I do. I've learned to do some things much better than I once did, but. But it is a little draining and. But those other things, like, restore me, I'm taking care of myself and that kind of thing. And I noticed that when I'm cool with the guy in the mirror, you know, when I can look at myself, really look at myself in the mirror and go, yeah, I'm proud of who I am and what my life is about and the way I live and that kind of thing. When I feel abundant and accomplished and powerful and generous, I am lovely with people. I am fun and playful and generous in turn. But if I'm feeling stretched, like, if I'm, like, feeling like it's not enough, my whole relationship is altered. Right? It's harder to. I'm faking it, right? I put on a smile. Hey, everything's okay.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why it's the first rule that this guy learns, which a lot of people don't think about. They want to learn what they're supposed to say to others or how to be around others. But first you have to Be with yourself in a good way.

Okay. Your next role is a real struggle for me in particular right now. See, get into it this polarizing time. There are people that I feel incredible values, alignment with and a shared worldview and that kind of thing. And then there are people that are freaking me the hell out with their way of looking and talking about things. And I really struggle to, to be enriched by their perspective and that kind of thing. Talk to me about that. How do I deal with and expand my network to not people who just look at the world the way I do?

Well, I think it's really tempting and unfortunately, I think this is a byproduct of the age that we're in right now where whether it's media, you can find a channel, whether it's a broadcast channel or a cable channel or a web based channel of information and ideas that, that resonate with you. That not only resonate with you, but you're like, hell yeah, this is what I believe. And you're jumping up and down and you're enthusiastic and you could be 247 on that channel. And I think one of the big problems that we have as a society is there is no commonality of how we bring information in. So if we're all listening to our point of view and we don't hear the other, how are we ever going to work with one another, sort of resolve things if we can't have dialogue and communication? So yeah, I'm like you, Bill. I mean, and everyone is. There's no one who is apolitical or doesn't have points of view about what's a meaningful life or not. I mean, everyone does. But here's the thing. It's very tempting to hang out with the people who, you know, who you like, who you trust, what have you. But just because somebody has a different political system in mind, it doesn't mean that you can't be aligned in other areas. And you may have the ability to connect with somebody and maybe not agree with them, but hear where they're coming from and realize what you might need to do to live in a society with very disparate and polarized beliefs. And in the business sense, I have great clients who we don't agree with them politically, but we agree with them on other levels. And if I limited myself to doing business only with a certain type of political profile, I would be missing out on some really rich and interesting relationships that have helped me grow as a person, not just as a professional. We never know who our next great connection is going to be whether it's a friend or whether it's a client. And if we start segmenting off saying, well, they don't watch this or do this or hang out in places like I do, so therefore we have nothing in common. I just, I think we need to, we need to stretch ourselves as we need to do it as individuals and we need to do it as a society because the only way things are going to get better is if we can have dialogue and if we can have conversation.

It's interesting. I definitely can think of some of the strongest, most interesting people in my life and like the history of my life are not the people who are exactly like me. Obviously we have some places where we have common views and not just politics. I'm not even. Politics is big right this second. Right. But I'm just talking about fundamental ways of looking at the world differently. Even before, years before this current environment, you know, there were some people that really challenged me and other people that were easy. And I would tend to gravitate to the people that were really easy for me to connect with. But I do know that spending time getting in the world of connecting with the people that were harder has dividends, is value. Right. Expands me, gives me a greater range and appreciation.

Yeah, I mean, actually I learned this rule when we were both in Yeo. So my tendency when I first joined the group was to always be with the people who I felt comfortable with, the people I knew, the people in my little group there. And it's very self limiting when you go to an event that happens every month and many of us belong to groups that now are doing this virtually. But when we go back to more normal times when we meet in groups, it's very easy to hang out with the people that one knows and feels comfortable with. So what I encourage my clients to do is challenge yourself to go to an event and purposely set a number for yourself, whether it's three, five, whatever you think is doable. And promise yourself that you won't leave that event until you've made an effort to connect with people that you purposely would have avoided. It's a great exercise because you just don't know where that next great connection is going to come from. I learned that from somebody in Yeo. And his story was he met really one of his best clients because he was purposefully doing that. And he told me that after I said I was thinking about leaving the group because I wasn't making new connections. And he said, you know what problem might not be the Group, it might be you. You're doing what I did. You're always with the same folks. So I think we have opportunities to practice this. And when we push ourselves, some amazing things can happen. So that's why the second rule is seek out individuals who expose you to new ways of thinking, because you just never know where that next friendship or that next great business connection will come from.

Now, your next two ones I have done to varying degrees, and I've done them a lot since the pandemic hit.

Good.

Asking people how you can help them and serving without consideration for benefit. So I asked, you know, anonymously shouted out to the universe via the social media, on the interwebs and the Facebooks and. Right, right, listen, I think people are probably scared and in trouble right now and I might be able to help you with some things. And, and I said if you need coaching, support or somebody to listen, I'm here, I'm available, and I'll talk to you for free. And I talk to lots and lots and lots of people in that time frame. And, and some of those conversations were even public conversations. But I didn't ask, you know, well, if I do this now for you, what are you going to do for me later? I'm just going to help people and see what happens. I have no idea where the hell we are now. But that has paid off in enormous ways. Not only goodwill, exposure, visibility, but some of those people actually benefited from what I wanted. And then they came back and they said, hey, could I hire you now to work with you ongoingly? Some of referred me instead to other people. So I've had direct. Not only was it deeply, deeply satisfying to know that in a time of crisis, I was really busy. Helping people is, is like satisfying from a, like a life purpose standpoint, but then also it comes, it actually has a payoff. When I asked for none expected, none, like, you know, I was just going to be useful.

Yeah, I mean that's really the way it works. So it's great, psychic good that you feel within yourself for doing that you have things that people need. So the reason why I split these into two is asking. We can assume we know what people need, but we are just making assumptions. So asking people how we can be useful, let them articulate it. And then the other rule is serve others without thinking how you're going to benefit. Well, some people will not tell us, but we can see what their need is and we know we have a service, an idea, maybe a connection that would be useful to them. So then it's just serving. Not expecting a quid pro quo, but doing the right thing. So we should ask, but we should also take the opportunity to serve and all for all these rules that we've talked about, the first four rules, it's always geared towards the other helping the other. But the thing about relationship building that a lot of people don't understand and there's a lot of science behind it, is that when you are doing the right thing, it is the right thing to do as a good human being. But it always like your story, Bill, it always comes back to you. So Robert Cialdini wrote Influence, a wonderful book, and he talks about reciprocity. When you have this service first mindset, people want to serve you back. We are wired. We are social animals. We are wired to help people back. But we have to, you know, leave not thinking what we're going to get back because then we defeat our purpose. People can see through that. And you don't know who's going to be the person who ends up wanting to work with you, referring somebody. You just don't know. And if you just divest yourself of the outcome and you work on the input of really being of service, things are going to happen that are going to be positive. You just have to believe and do it long enough that you experience. Then it's not belief. It's like, you know what, this is the way I roll. And good things always happen. And I feel good about myself for being this way.

I do feel like that. And it certainly is easier to do that at this stage of life in a place of abundance, after some decades of professional accomplishment and perspective change and some security and things like that, what I'm willing and able to do. There are times when, like, it's all looked a particular way and I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen, but something's going to show up, forge ahead. Right. A little bit like jumping off the cliff, not knowing where that parachute is going to come from.

Yeah. You know, but it doesn't necessarily. Yeah, no. So you gain it with life experience and you see that it is a good thing. But here's the thing. We go up against companies that are spending lots of money on sales training, and there's lots of different sales training things. And we believe that sales are a byproduct of relationship building. So if you can get that mindset of how you can really be of service to your clients and your prospects, sales will sort of take care of themselves. And I think a lot of people are looking for the ultimate whatever it is. There's so many of them out there. The magic words that you can say that'll rope somebody in. But I think authenticity, people crave it. They can see through most sales efforts. So what we're talking about here is a great way to roll as a human being, but it's also a really effective way to be in business. And it doesn't mean that you have to be older. We work a lot with loan officers in the mortgage industry and loan officers in the mortgage industry. They're going up against Rocket Mortgage and all these fintech alternatives. But if they're truly human and can serve their realtors well, they're going to get more referrals and more business from them. It's the right thing to do. So what we're talking about here, it's interesting because it's, it's really good in terms of just feeling better about yourself, but it's just, it's just a smarter way to do business.

So number five seems obvious, right? Exceed expectations.

Yeah, yeah. You would think you wouldn't have to throw that in there. But the thing is, what we're talking about is not rocket science. So when it comes to serving others, see what other people in your industry, what they deem to be service. And if they're doing X and everyone's doing X, well, then that's not really service. That's an expectation for, for your industry. So what does it mean to be the one who digs a little bit deeper? And I don't have the answer. For each industry and each individual, it's going to be different. But challenge yourself to think about how can I serve in a way that others who do what I do sell what I sell are not.

Yeah, I, I often think, like, what could we do to surprise them or delight them?

I love that.

Throw in a little pizzazz or something. We had a mutual friend who would throw extra little things in their shipping packages and make the experience of opening the package really delightful. And I remember hearing that story years ago and we started putting in, especially around the holidays, we started putting in little chocolates and things like that in the box so that the shipping person who had the maybe boring job of like just opening the package and then, you know, checking in goods and stocking them and doing that kind of thing, they would personally get a little delight, like there's a little chocolate for you. And so we knew that if they learned that over time, they would look for the box from our company, open the box from our company because there's a little something in it for them.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, I've seen a couple companies do that. Yeah. So I mean, that's a perfect example. Something that they're not getting from the other company's boxes that they open. It's like, these guys are different. Maybe they'll prioritize. Maybe they're going to put your stuff out on the shelves before the competitors who don't do that. So little things really count for a lot. So Theodore Roosevelt says, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And in this case, it could be a piece of candy that lets them know that you really care and think that they're important or worth doing something nice for.

Initially we thought, oh well, we should make our boxes branded and put all. But then we were like, yeah, we sell jewelry that's going to be just telegraphing, steal me. So we kept the outside nondescript, but when you open it up, there was a little delight from the color of the wrapping paper to things like that. That made it just a little more fun for the people that were.

I mean, it could be simple. Like there's my favorite little local cafe, when they bring you a cup of coffee, you get chocolate covered espresso beans. A couple of those. They cost maybe 20 cents. They buy them, I'm sure in a huge bulk, but you don't get them anywhere else. It's like, that's kind of cool.

Okay, so your last two are awesome. Second to last, I think is surprising given the tone and the direction we've talking about. But I think it's really important to be like straight and open because if you leave stuff to a mister. So talk to us about number six.

So this is a huge one that I came late into understanding the importance of it. The sixth one is let people know how they can help you succeed. And this is a big one. So the number one question that we were asked when we started this pivot to helping people grow through relationships was, you know, Patrick, we have a good business. Our products are good, we have excellent service, much better than the industry. But, you know, our referral rate is not really what we think it should be based on how much better we are than the competition. You know, why is that? And I was mulling over like, oh, what could it be? And then I went to a word of mouth marketing association conference in Vegas and this professor got up and he shared this really interesting statistic which I had never heard before. Didn't learn in business school, didn't learn a lot of things at business school, didn't learn this one either. And that was 50%. And he said 50% of all people, in order to make a referral, have to be specifically asked for one. And that was kind of like an aha moment for me. So if you are leading with service and you really are looking out for the interests of your clientele and you see that statistic and then realize the wisdom of Cialdini, of reciprocity, you just will make an assumption, according to this professor, that people are going to refer to you. And it's not that they don't want to. In fact, they're primed to do it. But here's the thing that he talked about. People will assume that you're just so awesome you don't need more referrals because clearly if you did, you probably would be articulating it. Maybe they think about that, maybe they don't. They just don't think about referring you at all because you haven't had the conversation. And I heard that and I didn't believe it. And I went back and funny enough, our mutual connection at that sailing school, who was a client of ours, I went to him and I said, hey, Anthony, we're looking to grow. And he said, are you asking for a referral? We'd worked with him for a few years and he referred. Not one, but we got three referrals from him. I had three conversations and the same thing happened. So it's like, wow, that really works. So if you have a service mindset and you're leaving out that step of asking for referrals, you're really missing out. And if you're leaving out the step of asking people to go onto social media and put in a Google review, if that's relevant for your business, or Yelp review, if that's relevant for your business, or a LinkedIn recommendation, if that's relevant for you as a professional, you're just basically leaving a lot of relationship capital on the table. And you know what, when people do refer to you or write that recommendation, they're going to be happy because they're like paying you back. You've done them so much good, they're going to want to reciprocate. And now you've told them explicitly how they can help you. And so many people welcome that. And it's so rare when people ask me to write them a recommendation or introduce, I'm happy to do it because it's easy. The five minute favor, very easy. For me to do. Most people will gladly do it. They just need to know what the heck it is. So you've got to have the conversation. Got to have the conversation.

I think the clarity is around. So I work with a lot of. We've been talking about Yeo, worked with quite a few YPO companies, probably more than the eo. And some of them are really love to refer and some do not, and some are really enthusiastic. But I think in both cases it's like, look, this is who I'm looking for. People that are like this and like you, I'd love to know more of them.

I love how you're doing that. That is, that is the trick is let people know. Because here's the thing. If you tell people that you value the relationship that you have with them, they're fun, they're smart, they're this, they're that. Just give them two or three things and that, you know, you have business, but you'd like to have more business like them because they're so great to work with. So there you go, you planted a seed. So it might result in a referral like that. And you know what? It might take months and it might never happen. But here's the thing, you ask that way and you're strengthening your relationship with that client. You got to make sure that it's not just lip service, that you're thinking very specifically to things that are true to your connection with them. But when you lay it out like them, you are creating such a strong bond that let's say you're in the lending industry. Is someone going to go to Rocket Mortgage next time if you've told them how much you value them as a human being? No, because Rocket Mortgage is an app and they have a real bond and connection with you. So having those conversations where you really call them out for what you love about working with them, that's going to help you so much.

That's really great. And the last one I find just enormously helpful in life. And I practice it really regularly. I started with a reminder about it and I found it helpful in getting through some very stressful times. But. But it also helps the human side relationship. And that's be grateful, right? So I have a reminder at the end of my day, just as I'm wrapping up the the workday, there's a recurring appointment for 15 minutes in my day and it just says grateful. It used to say something a little bit fancier, but today it just says grateful. And when that happens, I look around the World around my room. I think about my day and I express gratitude in some way. Sometimes it's just private, like a little prayer or thanks or it's not a reflection. Other times actually say something or do something out loud to people. But every day now for like a decade, that's been once or twice a day occurrence. And my whole relationship to people in the world and the events that transpire and the things that smack me in the face, like all of us have life events that smack us in the face is altered by that like fundamental grounding and gratitude. I'm grateful for this moment. I'm grateful for the technology, I'm grateful for fiber to the home. I, I'm grateful for a great lens. I'm grateful for a friend to talk to. I'm grateful for people to listen. Like the world of that begins to open up and open up and open and that leaves you in a place of like, abundance. I don't know. For me anyway.

Yeah, I mean there's, and there's so much science to it. There's a professor at UC Davis, Robert Emmons, and he's done so many studies on gratitude and how it leaves the individual from a mental and physical perspective. And it's powerful stuff. I mean, it's why that if you don't have a gratitude practice like I love yours end of day, it's just part of the routine. That's great. I try to sit down once a week and write down five things I'm grateful for. That's what this professor encouraged students to do. And just that simple act of writing really etches into memory what it is. And that time is kind of a sacred time for me to do. And recently a friend of mine has introduced a very powerful question which I use in conversation when people are getting very depressed about what's going on. And that question is, what's going well? And what's going well is a great way to ask what are you grateful for? So when you're talking to somebody who's really frustrated, whether it's a client, whether it's a spouse, what have you, and you ask them that question, it's a great way to really shift the energy by, you know what this is, this is going well and they'll tell you what it is, and then that really reframes things. So yeah, from a personal perspective, great. From a business perspective, you've got to have a methodology of gratitude. You can't leave that out of the equation. It can't be accidental. How are you continuously showing gratitude towards Your clientele is also very important.

So I want to talk to folks about your programs and stuff in just a second. Before I do that, let me remind everyone that if the show helped you, you can give us a review, a thumbs up, that kind of thing that helps us to reach more people and so on. That's something that we could really use is you give us your review on itunes and thumb it up on YouTube or wherever it is and then add a few comments. Is like the power of 10 there. If you want to give us some feedback or that kind of thing, you can send an email to info scalingcoach.com if you subscribe, you get them automatically every week. We are doing them on Wednesday mornings now, but we will be adding in now live streams and we're at. We're working on two new shows. We'll have before you know it, three shows a week. I want to give special thanks to Lucy, our producer, who's behind the scenes and was setting you up and getting ready and like that kind of thing. She's been queuing up comments. That kind of thing. I want to give also special thanks to Vern Harnish, author and creator of the Scaling Up Framework. Also to Albert Burge, who edits our audio before it gets out to the world at podfly Productions. And the show notes get compiled by Ein Kudina and proofread by Tim McGowan. So if you think that you'd like to get. You'd like your salespeople or your biz dev people or sales and biz dev or like all the externally facing folks, maybe your relationship management folks, your customer service and to get trained in. And Patrick's got stuff@theconnectorsway.com is that it?

That is correct. Yep. Perfect.

Programs, courses, things like that there for them.

Absolutely. Yep. We have online courses. We've got information about our coaching programs. It's all there. And where they can get the book on Amazon, Kindle Print, what have you. It's free on Kindle by the way, through the end of December.

Oh, so go get it on Kindle and give that a review. You know, I think, I think you shared a lot of the ideas here. The ideas are simple and the. The telling of them through a story parable, obviously you can't retell the whole story, but that I think is a powerful way to learn something. So I think that's cool. But the ongoing work of it. Right. Developing the muscle in this area I think is really, really useful. So your coaching classes, that kind of thing that you have@theconnectorsway.com I think are super useful. Thanks for coming on the show, Bill.

It's so fun to reconnect. I've been remiss to stay connected with you. Let's not let it be so long before our next conversation.

Maybe you should get good at connecting.

Yeah. I need to hire a coach for it, man.

Right? So thanks again for coming on the show. Reminder to everyone to keep scaling up and keep kicking ass through these unusual and extraordinary times. Bye for now, Patrick. Talk to you again soon.

Bill, great talking to you. Thanks, Sam.