Franchising Your Business For Growth - Lance Graulich

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There's lots of different ways to grow your business, but it's really hard to scale and grow when you're still trying to work out the strategy. So if you get to get the strategy worked out, there is an avenue that helps both the growth, the funding and makes the strategy a lot, lot, lot easier. Secret answer is franchising everybody. My name is Bill Gallagher, Scaling coach and host of this Scaling Up Business podcast. Our show comes to you every week with over 500 episodes now on everything to do with growing and scaling your business, getting the team right, dialing in your strategy, executing better, optimizing the cash and ultimately exiting the business, surviving the process, loving every minute of it. We're talking about franchising today, but if you want to find any of those back for 500 plus episodes, you're going to go to scalingcoach.com or go wherever you're getting this right now. LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTubes, etc and like it. Subscribe it, turn on your notifications, get them every week. You can also go to our website, scaling coach.com and sign up for our newsletter. We send out a newsletter every so often and give you a little update on the latest in our world. Our shows plus all of our other programs, coaching workshops, things like that that we've got. So scoach.com and where are we getting this right now? It's great. So welcome to the show. Oh, I said welcome. I reached over and to reduce the music and I almost knocked coffee all over. That is the drawback to doing it live. Every now and then you do something truly, truly disastrous. Welcome to show Lance Grolik. Did I say that right?

Thank you, Bill. Happy to be here. You said it right and everything. You get extra points. Thanks for having me.

Lance is known as king of franchising by his mom and the guy in the mirror and lots of other people, family members.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So he's got a background with growing TGI Fridays. You might have heard of it, Wingstop, Krispy Kreme, Pink Box Donuts. He's the CEO of a company today called Ion Franchising and he's just passionate about helping people do a great job. Get started, work and work. The magic of franchising. And he's a host of a show himself, Ion Franchising. So again, Lance joins us from Las Vegas today, a place that I know and love and family and roots in. Welcome to the show again. Thank you. Well, let's start with your, your story. Talk to us about Fridays and how you got there in the first place. And you know, what you were doing before all of that. And take us through kind of your origin story.

I consider myself fortunate in that I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. And, you know, I had a grandfather that was a Polish immigrant nobody could ever understand. He had a supermarket empire he built from nothing. He was a carpenter in the old country. Had another grandfather that was a real estate attorney. Big time real estate investor. Not only for himself, obviously his clients. And then dad was on Wall Street. I call the Wall street real estate business ownership, call it the three pillars of investing, obviously, that we all know. Today, franchising is the most unknown. I worked on Wall street throughout high school, college. People would have killed to sit on a trading desk like I did. I was bored to tears. I felt like I needed people interaction. It wasn't, wasn't getting my juices flowing. And my uncle, who was an early tech entrepreneur, called me and said, I heard you're bored. I want to build a billion dollar restaurant franchise empire. I'm like, yeah, I don't know what he's talking about, but I'll go join him in Arizona. And I did. And that was TGI Fridays. And five years after joining him, we were at 225 million a year. Imagine $1992, 225 million a year. But I got to see it all unfold. I helped him with a lot of things. I wasn't the single and only guy doing this. That was Ken. Ken, in case you're. You're listening. My old mentor who ran the company, who I'm still friends with today. And it was an amazing journey. Fridays isn't exactly what it's all cracked up to be today. What it was in the 80s, it was pretty incredible. It was like Cheesecake Factory in the old days. Clearly, as you know, Bill, I need.

To see more flair on you. More flair.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know all about that. A lot of people don't even know what flair was. If you ever saw Tom Cruise in the movie Cocktail, he was trained by Friday's bartenders. And flair was your pins and your buttons and all kinds of fun stuff on your uniform. A lot of people don't know that. So glad you do got it.

Movie and popular culture.

Absolutely. I got bit by the entrepreneurial bug. I realized franchising was a cool, safe space. Follow somebody else's blueprint. Because look, here's the reality. A lot of smart people listening can create their own business, but there's more people that can't create their own brand from Scratch and franchising is a great place to jump into. And that's what I did with Wingstop and Krispy Kreme Donuts. And then I created my own brand called Pink Box. It's now a famous successful brand and I exited that. I'm a builder, not a maintainer. Got into being a franchise broker to help other people follow my path. I do that in my retirement podcast. My podcast is hot. Love what I do. So here I am.

Well, yeah, I get that journey and how you got bit by. It's remarkable how, what a difference it can make when you're, when you've got a core concept, when you've got a brand new. And now you got lots of passionate people. But passionate people, unlike just a manager who think about their business like an owner and who are invested in the success of the business as well. So whether you want to grow a business without inventing everything, right, that's the franchise or which is it? The franchise or the franchisee? Right. The person the franchisees building operating. Right. And then, and then, and then the other is like, I want to grow this business. I think this business can go across the country, around the world. And so I'm going to sell franchises. But then I have to remember that my customer is really that franchisee partner and I need to help them run a great business.

Absolutely.

In our world we have a couple of really big examples just to acknowledge. One, ain't no got Junk is a scaling up company through and through. And Brian Scudamore and Cameron Herold for that matter, learned all the beginnings of scaling up and the Rockefeller habits that came before it. And growing their brand, which is now very much a household name across North America. And we've had others like, I've got a client right now that's just adding people and going through crazy and they just sold half the company at a record setting industry multiple and for a huge amount of money. And they're just a Crunch fitness franchise partner. Right. And they operate a bunch of Crunch fitness gyms around the center of the country. And you know, we're so proud to work with them. But the difference of working with a company like that at this stage is we're not trying to figure everything out. It's like execute, execute, execute. So it's a lot about people in execution in the background. There's definitely some cash, but it's people in execution really 100%.

You know, look, franchise businesses are mostly service based businesses and it's, it's driven by people. Even Howard Schultz with Starbucks. He always told people, I'm not in the coffee business. I'm in the people business. And virtually every successful franchise brand has a core group of great people. I was successful at Wingstop as an example, or Krispy Kreme because I had great people. I wasn't some super genius, but I did figure out the formula, so to speak, on how to run people, the brands themselves, figure out all the technicalities, how hot fryer needs to be, how long I have to, you know, make a donut or fry a donut or proof a donut or whatever it might be. This isn't rocket science. So the beautiful part is virtually anybody.

That's the same thing that Brian has said about 1-800-got-JUNK. And now he has O2E brands, ordinary to excellent. And he really looks for a certain kind of person, a great person who's going to build great people around them. And that's how he's been really successful in growing his business. You shared a great story as we prepared the show about a bald guy in the hair salon business. Tell us that one. I think that's useful.

Yeah. I have a buddy that when he retired from corporate America, he was presented the idea as crazy as it was, to do great clips hair salons. And he said, why would a bald guy that doesn't know how to cut hair jump into a hair salon business? And that was the old thinking. Today's thinking is you have skills. The question is, what can they transfer to what sort of business? And the answer is in the world of franchising many businesses. So my buddy has 19 great clips hair salons, but he started with one. He got a $200,000 SBA loan, put his 20% down and, you know, ended up building an empire, bought another one, another one, and eventually large development agreement. And that's what franchising is all about. Build an empire without having any specialized knowledge of what you're doing. You talk about exits, Bill, a garage door franchise guy just exited for $98 million. A franchisee might have been 90. A franchisee.

Yeah.

Crazy, crazy money for a company you did not create and sweat in for 10 years or more.

I think though, there's still an opportunity for creativity. I had a woman in one of my accelerator programs. These are people sub million. They are still applying, scaling up, but they're trying to get it started right and get over a million. And we run, we create a curriculum for this EO accelerator program that's run through the entrepreneurs organization around the world. And so she was in One of my programs and she, she had salons. Right. It might have been great clips, but I don't remember the brand anymore. And she started with one that same way and then she grew to many more. And one of her key innovations was around the store launch. She's like, the way that everybody does it the way they want you to do it with the launch and the promotion, this way, you don't need to do that. It's expensive. It takes too long to make the, the store cash positive. She's like, I'm going to do it this way and I'm going to show them that it's going to work. And so she did it and I think it started to get adopted by other places because she's like, I'm positive. I'm, I'm like, cash positive in a few months, not a year, you know. Yeah.

And that's always for innovation. I was going to say there's always room for innovation. Yes. And the secret of magic formula, as you know and you talk about all often on the, on the, on this particular podcast, it's all about the scaling and the ability to cash flow as quick as possible. So there are franchisees that figure out that ramp up or scale up in a franchise quicker than other people. And the beautiful part is you're in this mastermind, if you will. These best practices are shared on a regular basis. Everybody loves the matter of fact, right here as an example, you know, when I was at Wingstop, this was from the highest volume. Some people can't see this, but $34,900, the highest volume. Opening week many years ago at one of my Wingstops. The most they did at one point. Prior to that, I think the highest opening week was like 25 or something. This is $34,000, 34,900. So you know, it's like that Four Minute Mile story. Remember for all those years, the Four Minute Mile was never broken. Nobody could ever do it.

Yeah.

Once one person did it, what happened immediately thereafter? Other people did the same thing. Yeah.

You start to think, oh wait, something else is possible. It doesn't have to be that way. Right. Like you, you know, nobody thought we could fly and then we flew and. Yeah. Roger Bannister, four Minute Mile. So how do you avoid making mistakes? Because we've also heard about people who bought into a franchise and it was the wrong franchise or the brand was declining or the deal was bad. Like. Yes. And we, we know some franchises who seem on top and then they get overexposed and then things Go south. Like, how do you. How do we avoid that?

Great question. Well, I picked the wrong first wife, so I know about that failure. And business is no different. So what I tell people, in any franchise selection process, working with a consultant like me, I get paid like a recruiter, so I'm technically free to you. You don't gain anything by not using me. You don't save any money. So I will give you the inside scoop on the best brands for you available in your area. When you. When anybody gets in the process and has the first call, it is like sort of a marriage. You have a first date, you have the coffee date, you get serious, you meet the corporate folks, which I call meet the parents again, like getting married. And eventually you have an opportunity to speak to the family, which are the most. Your goal is to speak to the most successful franchisees you can about their experience. And the only thing you have to worry about at that point because you have numbers, you have a business plan you're formulating, and I'm helping you with that. The question then becomes, bill, can you do this? You. Your personality, your available time and your skills? Because if you have people doing three and a half million at a plumbing franchise that don't really have prior experience being plumbers, why can't you be an average franchisee? And if you don't think you can, that's the wrong brand for you. There's a lot of integrity in the process.

So we know it's good people, but good people is always situational, right? Like, I'm sure your first wife says she picked the wrong first husband, right? Like we all. Hopefully we go on and make better choices for us in the future, right. I think it's interesting on the flip side of it as well. So I've got a business, right? Let's say I've got a roofing company or a restaurant. And I am thinking about how to grow my business and whether I want to buy other operators or whether I want to open my own shops. And. And for sure they all bring pros and cons, right? So how do I decide if I want to start selling franchises or not? What. What would be my indication that that's a good idea or a bad idea for me?

Another great question, franchising. As you mentioned earlier, the franchise exits for a franchisor. For the corporation, it can be tremendous. In the old days, even before the pandemic, 10 times cash flow was fairly normal. Now we might be even thinking of the same home service brand. When you said a tremendous exit Earlier, I know a guy that exited a franchisor that exited for 30 times cash flow. He had a $33 million cash flow when he exited for 90 million recently.

Why?

Because private equity groups believe in that case that was a small company under 200 units. They could take it to a thousand units and then sell again to, you know, for probably 700 million. So. Right. The, the. The answer is really this. If you are an owner that has a team that can mentor franchisees, has a system that produces, you know, profits, has a great model, hopefully in a unique niche, I always ask people, what's your special sauce? Because I have a team that sets up systems. We have a new mortgage franchise. We just set up. We have a. A golf franchise that's almost like an anytime fitness for golf.

Yeah.

It's not. Not a topgolf. It's not meant for entertainment. It's meant for serious golfers. So I always like the unique niche. Why jump into an extra crowded niche? You know, just another painting franchise, if you will. There's a lot of those. Although I have one today that's new. That's killing it. Average, average volumes of almost a million dollars in revenue on $100,000 investment. So people are thinking, all right, I want to do 10 million a year. I'll buy 10.

Right. I think the uniqueness of the offering and. Or the way that you go about it is really interesting because Brian has, in his O2E Brands thing, he's got painting one day, and his uniqueness is, we'll paint your whole house in a single day. And I'm like, well, how do you do that? That seems impossible. But he's like, yeah, wow. So he. They just have a crew in each room, so there's a small team in each room. And so all rooms are getting painted simultaneously. You know, like, okay. Oh, that makes sense. Right? There's an innovation.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is the key, is every brand has a different way. Hopefully they're innovating. And wow's thing is the speed is the speed.

Who.

You know, it's the same thing with Rebath and all. There are quite a few bath remodel companies that realized us, the homeowners don't want downtime. Who wants their bathroom under construction for weeks. But if you can get it done in a day or two, you and I are willing to pay for that. Right?

Yeah. I think my. I remodeled the bathroom a little over a year ago, and I spent a lot of money on this small bathroom. And it was down for almost eight Weeks, Right.

Exactly. So we pay for uptime, we pay for use. We want you in, we want you out. But, you know, franchises have a lot of that integrity, good communication, follow up that typical mom and pop or independent businesses don't have. But, you know, the question you asked that started this whole thing is, you know, if you have a successful independent business, most independent business owners are not willing to lay out all the capital required to grow in different cities throughout the country. And it's just not necessary. I have a great, great hot new brand I just saw in L. A started in Studio City, California. It's called the Toxic. It's essentially a lymphatic massage type concept. In the wellness segment, she and her husband, mainly her. She's amazing. Courtney. She built 12 locations in, like, five cities from New York, from New York to California before she said, all right, I'm done building corporate stores. My kids are getting older. I don't know if I can travel all these places. Let me put local franchisees in place with my system, with my brand. She does an amazing job on social media, and anybody that's joining that brand is lucky. They get to slide right into what she's created and she doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting that she's done for the last four years now.

Yeah. So think about, like, if I'm running, if I'm growing a business in a more organic fashion, I have to fund the expansion of that. I have to find locations, I have to hire teams. All the risk of all that I bear, and then I have to manage that additional location and teach them and all the other things. If I franchise it, somebody else puts up the money, raises the money, somebody else finds, or perhaps depending on how you organize the location, and they do the build out and they work on all these things. You do have to teach them, train them, give them this. But they're running themselves and they have an owner mentality, not a employee mentality.

You summed it up perfectly. That is exactly right. Because at the end of the day, while sometimes franchising gets this bad rap of these big corporations, it's still a local, locally owned business. And it runs better that way. As you said, with somebody with skin in the game.

Yes.

Makes sense.

And. And they're even like, think about the value of the hybrid as well. A company like Outback Steakhous ago really altered their category by making the. The store manager, the restaurant manager, more of a partner invested in the thing, wanting to stick around for a long time, not churning every six months. Like many restaurant management trainees will do in other companies.

It was an incredible model, that proprietor model where you put up, I think it was 25 grand. And then you got 10% of the cash flow. You got a modest base salary in the old days, $45,000 or something like that. But, you know, in a good, good outback, you're making over a hundred thousand a year and yeah, not a bad gig.

Yeah, not a bad thing to get into and, and change that alter. So you, you also shared a story about a waste management business talk. Share that one.

Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I work with a lot of veterans and I have a couple that came to me. They started doing some real estate investing, you know, a couple of, couple of rental properties. And, and they were both active duty in the military. And, and then one was about to retire and they're like, what can we do? You know, on the side, one of us will do it full time, the other maybe you'll, you know, take care of the kids, blah, blah, blah. So it just so happened that there was a waste management franchise that seemed to really check their boxes. We don't have enough time to go through all those things. But, you know, they did the assessment and we talked and, and figured out that they can get $150,000 SBA loan, put down 25, actually, it's probably 30 grand at the time, and, and jump into this one territory for a waste management franchise. They, within a year, they became the number one franchisee of this brand and they bought a second truck as quickly as they could. You know, more trucks, more revenue. And now they're about to buy their second territory. So there's just a success story like that. I mean, there were some bumps in the road because they were new to this, you know, and at times the franchisor. When you're now the number one franchisee, what do you think happens? You are now setting that pace. You're the Roger Banister. So everybody's got to follow you. Sometimes the franchisors want to know, well, why couldn't we figure that out quicker? And that's, you know, look, if, you know, McDonald's and their story, the Big Mac and the Filet O fish were invented by franchisees. They gave that idea to McDonald's corporate to do the R and D and determine, you're right, we do need some sort of fish sandwich on Fridays. And then it became an everyday thing.

Yeah, it's right. So you've got the innovations going both ways. You've got the input going on it's not collaboration out to them. There's. There is a collaboration, but then there's uniformity and adoption and as well as like regional things, right. You go to different fast food franchises around the world and they will name things differently. They'll assort them a little bit different. They'll tune them slightly. Like you're still getting a McDonald's experience almost everywhere in the world. But whatever the brand is, you may find some slight variances to do with the region.

I got a story on that one. Yeah, tell Krispy Kreme if you want to hear a story on that one, please. Krispy Kreme, you had a. You had to have a minimum. You had to have a minimum of 12 donuts that were. Well, 12 donuts were required no matter what. The same 12 donuts at every Krispy Kreme in the United States. But then you picked, then you picked from the catalog of recipes, so to speak, and said, all right, you need to pick another 10 that you get to choose. So when we opened up the Vegas market, maple was not very popular. So we did not have maple in the beginning as an optional donut. Then eventually maple became popular. Of course, now everybody knows about maple bacon and things like that, which I used to do at Pink Box Donuts. But yeah, so there's always going to be some regional flair, if you will, to use the word used earlier.

So.

Mm.

So one of my former clients that I would consider a success, we helped them dial in and scale up and get their execution. There's team improved and things like that and got a regular execution habit of planning and follow through on things. And then they sold for a multiple that fit exactly. The number is more really about the number than the multiple for this owner to a bigger company who worked on growing them, they had a great, highly profitable niche business doing something unique in a unique way that, that earned them an outsized profit, like outstanding and, you know, it was providing a good service in the world. And I would say he got the number he wanted and among other things, he got a. He was pretty happy with a new Jaguar car, right? Like, he thought it was car. It was a cool car. But I like to think of this always because I'm like, yeah, this could have been. You could have had jet money, not Jaguar money. And I always think of this story and the guy in the Jaguar versus the jet and what do you really want? Because this business had all the elements and in a franchise operation, he would have had different control and a different set of problems to Deal with. But we could have gone nationwide really quickly with that versus, you know, like 16 cities.

Yeah. And obviously people have different goals. Some people don't intend to build a billion dollar company and other people are really excited and focused on building a billion dollar company. And happiness is defined differently for different people. Remember the old Apple story in the early days with Steve Jobs and Woz, when they had a partner that put in money and then got out early? The, the adult in the room speak. It was like the 45 year. Yeah, he, he ended up retiring with about a million and a half bucks, last I heard. And if he would have stayed in Apple, he would have had like, you know, 20 billion. So yeah, people would be talking about him and writing books about him, but you know, now they're not. It's. Yeah, he wanted timing.

We all have to choose our own path. Right. Like, you know, there are, there are things. I'm a pilot, but I've never really wanted to own a jet. Just like not something that I care that much about or that kind of thing. But I would work differently and set different priorities if I wanted to own my own. I'm very happy to do some fun flying and then ride other people's jets.

Yeah.

Making that. So talk to us. Maybe you have some horror stories to share or some cautionary tales or whatever. And if I want to start franchising to grow my business, whose example should I not follow? Or what do I really want to pay attention to?

Remember Quiznos?

Yes.

Quiznos. Look, it was, it was a toasted sandwich concept. I believe before anybody did that, they were the sort of the originator. So they had something innovative, they had something great. Well, yeah, what they ended up doing that did not work out and was a problem similar to in professional football. The word encroachment is not a good word. Well, in legal terms, in franchising, it's a really bad word. So basically what they did, they got super greedy and they started, they went to franchisees and said, great, you have a great store in such and such city, Denver, Colorado, and we would like you to open a couple more stores in your area. And they said, I'm doing great, I don't need any more stores. I have a couple blah, blah, blah. They said, well, if you're not going to do it, we'll do it or we'll sell the rights for more. They'll basically infill that territory. And then all of a sudden, that successful franchisee lost 25 of his business or her business because they opened another Franchise too close. And. And now they went from a profitable venture to not so much. And all of a sudden there was lawsuits because you know that. So franchisors becoming greedy. It does happen. And Quiznos is an example. But look, it all starts with who you're dealing with. Are you when I put you through the process. I have people, I have old school people, a family with a lot of money that came to me recently. And he had owned many businesses that he created, made a fortune, but now wanted the easy route. What can I give the kids? Kids don't want my business. I got plenty of money. I got 5 million sitting in my sock drawer. What do I do with this for the kids? And it ended up being an automotive brand called Tint World, which is an amazing brand. Auto styling center. It's not just Tint, you know, ceramic coatings for Teslas and Porsche and yeah, audio, visual, all kinds of fun stuff. And this gentleman definitely didn't want to do business with a private equity firm. He wanted to deal with an owner of a brand, the actual original franchisor. There's a cultural fit that way. So when you're looking at a franchise and you work through me, these are things that we kind of talk about and we discuss. Sometimes people don't care about that. They just want a great brand. And as you know, franchising is regulated by the federal government. So there is a. Through the Federal Trade Commission, there is a franchise disclosure document required by federal law that every brand produces. And item 19 of these 23 items is an earnings claim. It's a lot of great earnings claims out there. Average franchisee does 2 million in revenue, 4 million in revenue. It's easy, easy way to put a business plan together. And then you add in talking to successful franchisees about what they're seeing. It's easy to figure out if it's something you want to be involved with or not. So it's not that mysterious of a process. Now, Bill. The negative is there are all kinds of people out there and all the gurus all over YouTube and social media telling you all of these baby boomers are retiring. Buy their business. Yeah, good luck. I have guys smart as can be looking five years, 10 years for those businesses. They can't find them. You'll find them. But you gotta be in the right geography at the right time to find those types of businesses at your terms. That's the other thing.

Do a franchise, that's a big call out as people get older and they're going to retire and you Know, they get in their 60s, they start thinking about, maybe I should sell my business. One of the biggest problems with buying or selling them is a delusion about the value. Right. Like, okay, you haven't necessarily set up your business to run without you, and you think you're worth a bajillion dollars. And the reality is your business probably isn't saleable for as much as you want. So now it's hard to get people to do it. You can't do it. And very often those businesses, they just end up winding down or blowing up because something happens, the owner, and they can't do it anymore, and then they just close it. I'm like, wow, why didn't you sell it earlier for a modest amount and get out and give some continuity to the business and like that? But a lot of times they don't. They just. Especially now we're seeing this in retail.

Yes. That's why the private equity. Private equity groups love franchises.

Yeah. Because there's some continuity, systems, controls, that kind of thing. Yeah. I think if you want to franchise, and probably more of our audience are business owners who are thinking about franchising their business as a growth path. And we'll have others who are thinking about another business or they've sold their business, but we probably have a little bit more in the other. You want to. If you want to get ready for that, you got to develop systems, playbooks, things that people can use to run a business. You've got to codify the things that you've done from memory, from institutional knowledge, and get those into repeatable kinds of tools. Yeah.

And you know, Bill, I've seen. To speak to those successful business owners listening. I've seen many franchises start without the systems in place. And as long as the ownership group recognizes it's a work in progress. Because, you know, there's an old expression, done beats perfect. So there are people that fiddle with setting up systems for years and years and years. All you need is a successful business model, preferably a federal trademark as well, and something in a niche that hopefully there's obvious there's room for. Although.

Right.

There's plenty of. Plenty of franchises that seem like they're crowded niches, but they're really not. There's typically room for every new great brand. Don't wait too long to set up that franchise system. Having that market share is far more important. Being first to market is far more valuable than having perfect systems set up. I can tell you that in my garage. I have a. A training sheet that. That's laminated that my guys created with Krispy Kreme because we were only the second franchisee of Krispy Kreme and although they had been around 50 years, their system sucked and they franchise because the phone rang off the hook. Looking at opportunities for opportunities and saying, hey, we can make money in this franchise thing. So, you know, with Krispy Kreme, my guys created systems, troubleshooting guides and things that corporate never thought of. And right again, there's the collaboration. Krispy Kreme had a great system, but through franchising is where they got to see some revenues they never saw before. I opened a Krispy Kreme donut shop in Utah. We did over $250,000, not donuts dollars opening week. And within several months that very expensive building was paid for and then we settled in at 100 grand a week. Not a bad deal.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Well, we've covered a lot of things. Whether you're thinking about how to grow your business, franchising it out is a great opportunity to do some things to think about to design that right, to lay the foundation to do that well. And if you're thinking about starting or adding a business, franchising could be a great way to go. And it great to have a partner, somebody to help you navigate those waters if you haven't done it before. Our guest has been Lance Grolik, king of franchising, Ion Franchising and host of Ion Franchising. The, the website, the name, if you would throw it up on the. On the screen there. Oh, there. Oh, there's a whole long.

There's the assessment. Perfect.

The assessment. You'll have to get that from the show notes or off the screen if you're watching for it, but we'll put it in both places so you can go and, and take the assessment. Lance, thanks so much for joining us on the show today and talking all about this world.

I appreciate you having me, Bill. It was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

Let me give big thanks to my friend and mentor, Vern Harnish, who created the whole scaling up framework and the Rockefeller habits that came before it to the people at store on Cameron and Seth and the team who get our show prepared, produced, scheduled, promoted week in, week out. Podfly, who edits the the show in the show notes and and all the rest. If you want to find out more about our business, our programs, all that kind of thing, or the back catalog of the 500 shows like subscribe wherever you are, sign up for our newsletter or go to scalingcoach.com and get more info about all that. Scalingcoach.com is our website, not too hard to remember or spell. Thanks again everyone for watching, for listening. We'll talk to you again next time. Bye bye. Keep scaling.