Getting Real with Leigh-Anne Acquisto

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We're live once again. We've got another Getting Real conversation for you today with a leader who's growing and developing their business using the tools and framework actually from Scaling up in the accelerator program that we run around the world. And we're talking in particular about how thinking about the approach to the business and the cash tools and then all the other things that go along with leadership as well. Hi everybody. I'm Bill Gallagher, Scaling Coach, host of the Scaling Up Business podcast. You can find hundreds of episodes on leadership and scalingupcalingcoach.com we've also got downloads of all the tools that we talk about in the show, notes for each of the episodes and we'll even send you a copy of the the free of the book Scaling up right there. ScalingCoach.com is our website where all that's available. Hundreds of these episodes and more. Scalingcoach.com these getting real episodes on Scaling up are all about how our leadership has been shaped over time, how the businesses have grown and we've grown with them. We're looking at the kinds of lucky breaks that we've had, how we've navigated the breakdowns and surprises, the things that have frightened us and and embarrassed us, our regrets, our proud moments, and how we're growing and developing as leaders. This episode is sponsored by the Bay Area Entrepreneurs Organization Chapters known as EO around the World. Our member led organization is a great place for entrepreneurs to find peers to connect to learn and grow with. And I'm proud to have been a member of the organization for over 21 years now across several different companies. The EO members in our Bay Area chapters in the San Francisco Bay Area are supported then and connected to over 14,000 members around the world. So they've got access to a whole world of entrepreneurship, connected to people and ideas and things all over the place. And they do in fact work and connect like that. I know I have found many connections in other countries. Just by reaching out within our world, we're instantly accepted and connected to each other. We call it Instimacy Around. If you'd like to apply for membership or to get more information about EO, just visit eonetwork.org all right, so listen in now to our conversation with Leanne Equisto. Leanne joins us from Johannesburg today. Thanks to the marvels of the modern interwebs and we're so excited to have this time to talk and connect. Leanne, welcome.

Thank you.

Happy to be here folks. Leanne is head of founder and CEO of a digital marketing firm. It's called Licorice Inc. She's going to talk to us today about their work, their journey and that kind of thing and how all that went. I'm really glad to have you. I'm glad that you were suggested to us. So tell us a little bit about your background as an entrepreneur. How'd you start this company? Why, you know, how long have you been. Have you had others like that? Give us a little background.

Cool. So I started my career in corporate as a brand strategist and as a strategy director for one of the biggest agencies in South Africa. And spending seven years, they really just kind of felt that I wanted to start a business that specialized in strategy because it's one of the fundamental aspects of growing a brand that I'm really, really passionate about. So 11 years ago, I walked away from corporate and started Licorice Inc. We are a strategic brand and communications consultancy and we really focus on helping clients define the passion and purpose behind their brands. So stepping out of corporate was really daunting, I suppose, as it is for most entrepreneurs. I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of entreprene in my family life. I've been exposed to a lot of entrepreneurs through kind of my networks. So it was always something that was in the back of my mind. I never, ever felt that it was unattainable. And I think the primary reason was twofold. One, you know, having the ability and freedom to work for myself. I'm very bad with authority. So corporate, Corporate hierarchy never really worked? No, no, I worked really well within them, but the frustration of having to work within them sometimes just, just was too much for me. So 11 years ago I stepped out and I opened Licorice Inc. And yeah, we've been, we've been going. We've had some really amazing years. We've had some really bad years as it goes in business. But I suppose the fact that we're still in business 11 years later is great. We've done some amazing work with great clients all over the world, all over the African continent. And it's been an incredibly. Yeah, I suppose it's the best MBA you'll ever do just to have your business.

So talk. Tell us a little bit about the firm. What makes it different, unique, where's the name come from? Give us a little background on that.

So Licorice Inc, Funnily enough, came out of a conversation with one with my executive creative director before I took the leap. And we were basically just talking about the fact That I was ready to leave and wanted to move. And we were eating licorice all sorts at the time and we really just started talking about how, you know, people either love them or hate them, but everybody's got an opinion about it. And that really resonated with me. You know, I think having an. Putting something out there that people have an opinion about, having a point of view is really important. So licorice really stuck with me. And then as a strategist, someone who's really passionate about brand strategy and, you know, finding the authenticity behind brands, ink the pen is mightier than the sword. Bit of a cliche. That's where the ink, the ink part came into it.

Yeah. And what, what do you feel sets the firm apart? What's unique about it? I mean, there's a lot of folks that do brand and marketing work.

Yeah. So for us, I think our real differentiator is that we are strategists. We don't really delve into anything out of our realm. You know, we very specifically focused on working alongside clients. We also have a very different model where we don't operate as an agency. So essentially with a lot of our clients, particularly in South Africa, they don't have formalized marketing structures in their organizations. So we come in as almost an external marketing resource, work with them as a strategic partner, then partner them on that marketing journey and onboard the right suppliers to help them fulfill that journey. So we kind of say we work alongside, we work with or we work within. We don't necessarily take over the full blown comms relationship. And I think that is the one thing that separates us from everybody else.

Yeah, I definitely hear a different business model there than a typical agency. So what do you feel like has been your luckiest break so far in developing this business? What are you grateful for? What do you feel like?

Look, I think we've had, we've had some, we've had some really good years. I mean we, we've managed to sign up and launch some really amazing clients in South Africa. In 2018, we launched one of the biggest fibre to home brands here. And as a small, small agency of small consultancy, I think took on a lot more than we could chew, but did it really successfully. And the model of work with or within or alongside kind of became the model of takeover. So I think we've been fortunate in the fact that we've been able to procure business or get business through referral and word of mouth in the past and have been able to partner some really, really good brands. That have built us a really nice profile.

And so that's. That sounds like not just one, but a whole bunch of lucky breaks, right?

Yeah, well, lucky a couple of years ago, not so lucky today.

Yeah, today it's been different.

You know, that's the cycle of entrepreneurship. You know, you have a couple of good breaks and then you have a couple of bad breaks, but.

So you've been in the accelerator program for about the last year now? Yes.

Yeah, just under a year.

And when you think about the biggest challenges in the business, is it been this year or is it something else? What's been your biggest challenge so far?

Well, my biggest challenge really throughout the life cycle of my business is that I own my business 100% by myself. I don't have business partners, and made really naive decisions in the beginning of the business in terms of the way that I scaled the business. So, you know, always agreeing with yourself is a very difficult place to be. And I think that's the one thing that accelerators, you know, when every idea is a great idea and every decision is the right decision, it's. It's. While it's amicable because you're basically agreeing with yourself, it's hard. It's hard. You know, you need a sounding board. You need objective opinions, you need smart people in the room. And I think I wish I'd actually joined accelerator four years ago. I think it would have been the best time for me to join. Unfortunately, I didn't. But what it's given me is that sounding board, that network and community of really smart entrepreneurs, business owners who are dealing with a lot of the issues that I'm dealing with and have brought a lot of objectivity to my world.

Yeah. So getting that mix of. Of opinion, perspective on the business, honesty.

You know, and honesty, because they don't have a stake in the game. So you can also call a spade a spade.

Yeah. You don't care as much about what's done with it. Right. So in the last year, what have you noticed? What's it been like for you to go through the changes in the business environment during the pandemic?

I think from our perspective, it's been more the client's pain because obviously that gets. That directly relates to. To ourselves and what we are able to do. So I think from a digital transformation perspective, you know, working from home, all of those things have not really been a major challenge. Major challenge for us. I think the insecurity in our client base and the inability to make a decision because of the uncertainty of the Future has made it really hard, particularly as a strategic consultancy to push clients along. You know, nobody really knows yet. The good thing about, I suppose 2021 is, well, now you just got to go, even if you don't know, because it kind of business has to continue. So it's been really difficult for us in terms of, you know, strategies and plans being put on hold, being shelved, being, you know, now having to be ratified by multiple people versus one point of contact. So I think the business pipeline has just taken a lot longer, which obviously puts strain on the company's kind of financial resources.

So getting real with you, what do you think has been your biggest mistake or regret when you look at what moment did you come to and wish you could do over?

Yeah, I think this one's pretty clear for me. I mean, you know, I had an opportunity probably about 18 months ago, or not a bit longer probably 36 months ago where the company was very financially viable to onboard a senior management team and probably should have done that, but for some reason just kind of thought, well, we'll just keep on tracking and didn't recruit the right people in the right positions with the right level of seniority to actually strategically steer our business forward. You know, it's almost a case of the cobbler's cobbler's family has no shoes. You know, you're very good at helping other people strategically, but when it comes to your own business, it's a very different, it's a very different ball game. So I think that for me, if I could go back and change anything would be the one thing, you know, there is no good. People are invaluable and you know, not onboarding babies because they're great. It's lovely to have a, you know, a wealth of young aspiring talent around you. But you also do need the well experienced, you know, kind of people in your organization that can challenge you and help you take your business forward. So that was my, by far my biggest mistake.

And if you were sharing with someone else, how would you change that going forward? What would you do that would be any different? How would you alter that?

Well, I think now, you know, our approach is very different. So now, you know, going through, going through the modules and you know, understanding, well, reading, scaling up book has really helped me kind of refine my thinking and understand the resources that are required to take the business in a certain direction. So how would I change it? I mean, going forward our hires are going to be our strategic senior hires, you know, to. And I suppose it's A little bit. It's a little bit of being able to let go as well. You know, not wanting to be in control of everything, not wanting to be involved in every single decision. You know, finding the right people, giving them the responsibility and holding them accountable as opposed to trying to do everything yourself, which I think is one of the big entrepreneur traps. You know, it's very close to your heart. It's your money. It's, you know, you just feel like you need to keep a handle on everything. But that handle starts to choke you after a period of time, particularly when you get, you know, your business starts to get really busy. So that's one of the key strategic steps that we're making now.

Now, in getting ready for the show, you said that the cash tools, the cash section have been the best for you so far. Have you been through the execution day yet?

No, it's my next day, which is happening, I think.

Yeah, coming right, coming right up.

Yes.

So the cash tools are great. And you mentioned in specific the cash conversion cycle, cash acceleration strategies. Talk about that. What did you see? How did that go? What changes have you made? Tell us a little bit about your experience with that.

Yes, I think fundamentally the biggest challenge with agencies around the world or consultancies around the world is the way that we charge, you know, we build like lawyers. But you can't really put, put a price in an idea and you can't put a timeline on an idea. Is someone going to come up with it in two hours and that's going to cost you, you know, 500 bucks now, whatever the case might be. And I think in something that's, it's, I mean it's still very prevalent around the world in terms of the agency model. But the reality is is people cost money and the best way to do it is a time based or the easiest way, I suppose to do it is a time based model. So what the cash day made me realize is that there could be a different way of delivering the value that we deliver to a different market on a subscription based model. So, you know, I really started looking into, you know, when we got into payment cycles and ways to improve billing, particularly with COVID you know, payment cycles went from 30 days to 60 days to 90 days and then it went to 90 days from statement, not in. I mean it just got crazy, right? You know, and it really made me rethink our value proposition, our target audience. I mean, we've predominantly worked with corporate companies and it also, you know, just understanding the lay of the land at the moment and what it, what the backbone of the economy is, particularly in our country going forward, is going to be the SMME or small, medium small to medium enterprise sector and entrepreneurs. So we spent a couple of days kind of mulling over it and decided to create a basically everything that we offer on a platform for entrepreneurs on a membership basis. So fundamentally it's the same product aimed at an audience or a market that can't afford to hire a consultancy, but also enables them or equips them with the skills to basically do it themselves. So the way that I like to call it is the IKEA brand building. It basically is a DIY toolkit and enablement platform that, that is based on a monthly subscription and you can engage on the platform. There's a community on the platform, there's preloaded content, live content, webinars, you know, learning lunches, etc. And it's specifically aimed at a different market. So I think for me it was more about just the cash day made me rethink the whole model of our business. We didn't change the primary business, but it enabled us to launch almost a sub brand within our business in a new market with a fundamentally different cash model. So that's been really exciting and I'm excited.

So you've got members or subscribers now who are paying a monthly fee for access to a whole range of things which includes the consulting, advising work, but has other self help and community based tools.

Yeah, so it's an on sale to the consulting and advisory work. Should your business get to that level where you need that engagement, then we move you across to the main business group. Consulting and advisory knowledge, not on the cards. But the business is only launching on the 1st of July, so it's been in kind of development for the last few months. So. Yeah, but it, but essentially, I mean, I think as an organization it's given us a fundamentally different view on why we do what we do, which has been really inspiring.

Yeah, it sounds really different and a different approach that came out of rethinking the business there. Yeah, so yeah, finish now.

I was saying it's interesting, like one would imagine that would come out of strategy, but just, you know, what cash, what, what the kind of cash they made. Once you start thinking about it in a different way, it's like how can you get people into your organization in a different way and how can you take your product and actually productize your product in order to give it, you know, bring people into your business in a different way that'll that'll give you a different financial model. You know, we haven't fundamentally changed anything. We just repackaged and, you know, put it out in a different way, which I think is a lot more relevant and I think appeals to a broader global base as opposed to, you know, currently, the base that we're talking to in South Africa.

Well, I think there's something useful to underscore there. As an entrepreneur and as a coach, I notice again and again the interconnection of the tools and ideas of the decision areas. So you're like, oh, I'm having a people problem. And then you realize I'm not attracting, retaining people because my strategy is unclear, or it sucks. You're looking at the whole cash side of the business, and then you realize there's, like, inefficiency the way you're doing things in the operations, or you realize that the whole strategy is off because the way you're selling or what you're selling doesn't fit your market or match what you can do versus the other. I think in each of these, we see the interconnections of things in any one of them and we realize what it is, but it's not necessarily, like, straight on from where you're looking or thinking that it'll come from. From.

Yeah. And I think for us, the biggest. Well, for me, the biggest eye opener was like the minute we just changed our frame of mind and went, well, this is the real value that we can add. You know, as you said when we started this conversation, what makes our consultancy different to any other? Well, the reality is not a hell of a lot. Okay. We've got a little bit of a different model. Okay. So maybe we work or we engage with clients in a slightly different way, but, you know, not a hell of a lot. And the minute we kind of cottoned onto this thing, everyone was just like, we can actually make a difference in the world within a segment that really needs this help right now. And that has changed the energy of the company. It's changed people's perception of the business. People are wanting to do so much more. They're wanting to get involved in so much more. You know, they're just wanting. They're wanting to see this thing come to life. And, you know, I almost feel bad because we're also. We're so passionate and excited about it. We just want to get it launched and we want to get it out there. And I keep going, don't forget the bread and butter. Don't forget the bread and butter. But it's given us a real purpose. And I think that has been fundamentally lacking in our organization. Why do we do what we do and what is the benefits or the value of what we, you know, of what we do at the end of the day. And you know, now I think we're very clear as to what that benefit is and the value is that we can deliver. And it's, it's really been incredible from a culture perspective.

Well, it'll definitely, yeah. Working with a different business model change slightly. The core customer, some of the people that you've had before will not be interested in it. Other people that never considered you will now consider you. And it may in fact make you a more global organization, which is really cool, really interesting if you think is.

Even the clients we've had before are interested in it, but in a different way. So they've got massive CSI empowerment, educational targets and they're going, well, this is a great way, like it's a really great way to maybe partner you on this journey. So we won't use it because, you know, we need professional services, etc. But we can partner you on this journey to help you realize your vision because it's very much in line with what we need to do as a company and part of certain aspects of what they need to do as a company. So that's also been a really interesting conversation.

Yeah. So as you think about all this, what do you feel like, so what's your superpower in all of this? Yeah, you shine as a leader.

Look, I think it's my superpower and in some instances it's also my biggest downfall. I'm, I'm a problem solver. So I, to, to the degree I, you know, I, I fix stuff, I fix shit, as we like to say in the business, sometimes in the right way, sometimes in the wrong way. But I just like to, to sort stuff out and I think, you know, I think everything that, that comes my way, that's the way that I look at it. I suppose the positive of that is that we do get shit done and, and stuff keeps moving along on the other side. You know, sometimes you forget about like the empathy and you forget about, you know, there's a reason that there's the problem and it's people and stuff like that. But I think in a way that, that really my whole life, with my family, with my friends, with my business, with my clients, people know you pick up the phone, you call, stuff will happen.

So that's a really useful insight. I'm also a Gallup Strengths coach. We use Gallup strengths tools in working with our teams and our leaders and that kind of thing. And we know that all of these talent themes that we have have good and bad sides. Right? And you spoke to that really beautifully. That I think is worth underscoring. So if you're a problem solver, if you're a fixer, right, Then you need problems, you need things to fix. And so very often people with that kind of thing will wait until things get to be really a problem before they tune them or tweak them. That puts you more likely over in kind of the strategic grouping of talent themes and strengths versus the execution, which wants to tweak and optimize things that aren't really broken yet and wants to do things again and again versus a fixer problem solver who doesn't much enjoy the repetition. And also then you reference that sometimes you forget it's people stuff. And problem solver fixers aren't always great at just the basics of relating the human side of things like that. It's not that we're incapable of it, it's that we don't naturally go there. We don't think about that. We're looking at it from a different, like, what's broken or the, or the chess moves kind of thing and thinking about how to fix things and less of like, read and connecting with the people, right? So it's a different perspective. And I think it was beautiful the way you called out the relationship of those two things. And so you look at your business and a recurring problem that you have. Some people say problem solvers then have to break things or wait for things to break, to fix things. But fortunately or unfortunately for us, the world is naturally breaking all the time, right? Things just simply break down. It is entropy. It is the erosion of the basic integrity of all things that's going on all the time. Even as things are born, they're also breaking down. And so you're naturally going to have plenty of opportunities even if you don't create problems.

There's lots of things to fix. But my biggest learning is when you are dealing with people. Not everybody comes along at the same pace. And solutions need to be presented in the right way at the right time. To shoehorn a solution into, you know, a person or a situation that's not ready for that solution also is a completely futile exercise. So that for me has been a massive learning in my journey with my business is just really learning how to listen and understand exactly where people or clients or the situation is. And, and also empathize with the fact that it can't, maybe can't be done right now. You know, maybe it's going to take six months longer than I'd like it to take or the solution dictates. So it's been, you know, I think in doing my work, I'm constantly surrounded by people and I'm constantly working, you know, within a relationship. And it's taught me, it's taught me a lot about, you know, how to, how to relate to people and how to position things at the right time in the right way. So that's been, that's been huge.

Nice. If you could think about it. What's a bad habit or quirk that you're grappling with all the time?

I just swear way too much often, so that's a bad habit. It kind of jumps into most of my sentences. Yeah, I'm quite animated when I speak. And yeah, cursing is not, not in my mind a bad thing, but I've realized it does upset a lot of people. So it's a quirk I'm trying to, I'm trying to minimize, not, not get rid of, but just minimize.

You know, I, I wonder. So it certainly adds, it brings color and emotion into our speaking. Right. And it will turn off certain audiences and certain groups and people who are of a different age. I know it was a bigger problem for me when I would say, fuck that or that's the shits, or like, whatever, when my audience was a little bit bigger and broader years ago when I spoke to a more mainstream, less business growth audience. Right. The business growth teams and leaders usually are, are pretty accepting of that in almost any culture. Far less conservative. Right. But there are definitely times where people are like, wow, like, why do you have to speak like that? You know, that's right.

We've got huge cultural nuances in South Africa. And it's something that we've, you know, kind of. You, you've also got to, you've got to respect first. You've got to understand it, then you've got to respect it. Like, you know, certain cultures just do not, you know, cussing for them is it basically switch off, walk out the door. Whether it's personal engagement, whether it's business engagement, whether it's in a service engagement, they don't really see that it's a nuance, that it's, you know, it's kind of making the conversation. You're trying to emphasize stuff. So we've also got to be quite culturally sensitive around the way that I speak or I've got to be quite culturally sensitive around the way that I speak, depending on the audience. And it's basically a cultural thing and, you know, Absolutely. As it should be. But it's been interesting for me to see how it affects certain people and not because it fundamentally offends them. That's their culture. You know, certain words are just the minute they're uttered, they're like, I'm out. Sorry.

Absolutely.

Very multicultural society. And we've gone through a very long time of trying to, you know, understand and, you know, and I think we finally getting to a point where everybody's learning how to live and work together and that affects the way that you speak.

Yes. If you could go back and give your younger self some advice. Right. What would you do over or change up in.

Yeah, I think for me it's one simple statement. Done is better than perfect. You know, I. If I get back all of the hours that I spent trying to perfect and actually get it done, you know, that I think I probably saved myself a good couple of years. So, you know, that's been. And that is even my learning now and launching this new business. It's just, do, you know, stop worrying. It's pink, it's blue, it's the lines. Get it done. Once it's done, you can always go back, you can always refine, you can always fix, you can always get feedback, but rather get it out there, get it going and then start worrying about the finer details. I think a lot of great ideas get stuck up on that finer detail refining phase and never actually see the light of day.

Yeah, perfectionism or even a tendency towards any aspect of it being too nitpicky can make a real negative impact on actually moving forward, scaling, getting things done. The people that are willing to keep improving, but get something out there generally do better in our world.

And the good thing about consumers today is they'll tell you, you. Yeah, no, that's no problem. They will tell you, you'll know immediately. It's, you know, you, you want feedback, just put something out there. You can get feedback. You don't need to. You don't need to assume.

So I want to talk about your goals and challenges in just a moment. But before we do that, I want to remind everyone that our episode here is sponsored by the Bay Area Entrepreneurs Organization Chapters. We've got three chapters in the Bay Area. We've got many chapters across many countries around the world. 14,000 members around the world. But in the Bay Area, we' three chapters. The Entrepreneurs Organization is known more commonly as eo. It's a member led organization. It's a place where entrepreneurs come together to connect, to learn and grow, to meet other people like them who struggle with the same kinds of challenges and issues. And I've been a member of the organization for, well, I joined the predecessor organization over 21 years ago, it was known as Yeo back then. And I've been in the organization with several different companies over my entrepreneurial journey. I've been a member, a leader, locally, globally, regionally, that kind of thing. Our EO members in the Bay Area are connected to each other and do learning events and operate and meet in small forum groups and things like that. But then they're also connected to these 14,000 plus members around the world. So when they need some insider to something in Indonesia or the Philippines or they want to find someone to help them with something in India or in Austria or in Johannesburg, right. They've got a group of people to reach out to and who do in fact answer the call, answer the email and connect and support each other. It's just an extraordinary thing. If you'd like to get any more information or to apply for membership or to learn about the EO Accelerator program which we run here in the Bay Area as well, visit eonetwork.org again. Eonetwork.org is the place to find out more about the EO organization. So talk to me now about kind of what's your longest term biggest goal? When you think what's the biggest thing that you're working on? What are you trying to build? How are you trying to change the world? What is it that I think for.

Me it's really just about building a leaner, more resilient global business that makes a meaningful impact and the world, you know, that actually adds value, significant value. So that, that I think is our big massive drive at the moment is, you know, how do we find really smart ways of putting really cool, valuable stuff out there in the branding and marketing space, you know, for people and entrepreneurs and organizations that can't necessarily afford big agency or big consultancy fees to help them kind of do it themselves and scale and be successful.

So making this kind of work accessible, more accessible, more widely used on a global scale. And have you created a BHAG yet?

Not really, no. I'm still busy with our one page.

Well, that's central to it, right? So you want to keep thinking about, you know, what's the biggest thing that you would want to like, but actually specific, say 10 years or more in the future. You know, what do you want to be able to say about it? The size, the impact, the extent of it. Impact is a great place to look for, for that, right?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, I think, I think that one of the. It wasn't a learning day, it was just a kind of an online webinar. Really interesting. You know, I suppose it was last year. It's probably around about July last year. And the key insight for me is like if you, if you even know what you're doing in the next six months, you're in good space. So 10 years, 10 years seems like a hell of a long time time away. But I think for us, if we were to put a BHAG in place, I don't think it would be financial. I think it will be in terms of impact, countries of impact and number of organizations of impact. I firmly believe that if the money will come, if you've got a great product and you've got a great purpose, that's not a primary goal with this product. It really is about empowering and inspiring entrepreneurs to build better brands in the world.

So I know you're new grappling with some of these tools and approaches and it's great and what you said is really great for everyone to get that. The most powerful, useful bhags are about purpose and impact. So the bhag is Jim Collins term for the big hairy, audacious goal. It will come with it financial rewards if you run the business well, not if you don't run the business well, but there will be a financial payoff. But if you create a financially centered bhag, the only people who care about it are you, your spouse, your equity partners, right? A very few select number of people. But when you create a purpose or impact centered bhag, like everybody really cares about you winning, about making some difference in the world and then it's up to you to design the business around it so that it's actually a business and not simply a nonprofit. But you get cause like commitment and engagement from not only the people within the business, but the people around the business. And that's profound. And although we have been moving through and continue to move through fairly dynamic and unstable time, particularly dynamic and unstable, having that long term stake in the ground, having declared a mountaintop, makes it very clear what kinds of choices to make in the here and now. So how you navigate the next three to six months in light of different directions you could take with that BHAG in mind is all the much more clear when we know what we're doing. Right. I think many people have muddled through with their, their video and zoom games and things like that. Knowing what I wanted to do in the long term, when the pandemic said you're going to work from home, you're going to work remote with people, we really raised our game in the video and audio department working remotely. And as a consequence it shows. It wasn't a marker until we could get back in person. We used that because one of our things was to have a much, much bigger impact which included some kind of a TV show. So boom, there you go. You've made a clear connection between the BHAG and the here and now of several different directions you could choose. So what do you think is your biggest challenge in navigating the next period as a leader? What are you going to struggle with in scaling your business or what are you struggling with?

Look, I think, you know, we, well, you know, maintaining the primary business and servicing our clients while building a secondary product offering I think is, with the same amount of resources is always a challenge. Funding for the new proposition is a challenge. It's a content business which takes time, it takes production, it takes all of those types of things. So I think for us that's. And then, you know, building a new business pipeline in the interim. You know, one of the biggest challenges with running a consultancy is it's predominantly project based business. So we're not like a traditional agency that runs retainers and stuff like that. So you know, we engage in a project should you wish to have further engagements. That's cool. But it's, it's project based business. So there's got to be a constant pipeline of those projects that one needs to keep filling from the top.

Sorry, doesn't your membership model begin to change that?

Yeah, they're two fundamentally different businesses. Businesses though. So one is that the consultancy is still focused on the corporate. Corporate. Corporate sector because it's funding business.

Yeah.

The new business, yes, will, will run on a membership base but you kind of got to keep both, you've got to keep both afloat. You know, we can't put all of our eggs into a new startup basket and go, well, let's pray. I'm sure it will work. I'm very passionate about it making a real impact.

You're moving into Y. So balancing that I hear is a reason.

So you know, it comes with all the challenges of, of that. And in the meantime you still got this engine that's got to keep Running and, you know, you still gotta, you still gotta keep that alive. So I think time management, massive, you know, being able to dedicate the right amount of time to the right, you know, on the right projects. I mean, I don't know how these big guys do it. I mean, I saw someone's diary the other day. Blew my mind. Like, it blew my mind every single half. And then it's like red for this company, blue for that. I was just like, wow.

So diary for, for some of our listeners in, it means your calendar, right? It's the, your appointment schedule in other countries. Or a diary would mean like a journal, your daily notes or thoughts, right?

Yes, it's your, it's your calendar, your appointment calendar. I mean, these guys are basically booked. You know, different businesses, different hours of the day, different email addresses and it's, it's incredible. But it takes a serious amount of organization. So I think I've got two young boys, you know, my husband's an entrepreneur. So we're busy, we're busy, busy balancing.

Balancing. Well, I want to let our listeners know if you'd like more information or to, to hear more about the company. You're going to go to Licorice Inca. We'll put that crawl and the link in the video feed right here as well as in the show notes below. So Licorice Inca, if our show today was awesome and groovy for you, like it? Subscribe, give us a review. You know what to do wherever you get your podcast video audio content. And if you subscribe to them, you'll get them three times a week with our different format podcast shows. And of course, you can watch live when we put them out. I want to give special thanks to Lucy Summers, our show producer, working in the background, keeping things going smooth before and after and during the shows. Our audio is edited by Albert Burge at Podfly Productions. It's written up and compiled by Ein Kadena and edited by Tim McGowan. If you want to know more or go directly to our website, it's scaling coach.com scalingcoach.com you can also drop us a line or a message and email to info scalingcoach.com and we're happy to hear from our listeners. Viewers, thanks again for listening for watching everyone. Keep scaling up. We'll talk to you again next time.