GETTING REAL with Mike Birdsall

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Direct Third time's a charm. We're talking about what is it to live a lifetime of entrepreneurship Coming right up. How to keep getting it right again and again and again as an entrepreneur and to keep your life together, keep your marriage intact, keep moving along with new and innovative ways. I everyone, I'm Bill Gallagher, Scaling Coach and host of the show. You can find hundreds of other episodes just like this on leadership and on Scaling up at our website scalingcoach.com we've got all the downloads of the tools that people talk about on the shows and all the notes. We'll also send you a free copy of the bestselling book Scaling up right there@scalingcoach.com now these getting Real episodes on the Scaling up podcast and live streams explore how our leadership has been shaped over time by the growth of our business. What lucky breaks have we had? Have we navigated the breakdowns and surprises along the way? What's frightened us or even embarrassed us? What do we regret? How are we growing and developing of leaders? All that and more. So I just want you to know that this episode is sponsored by the Bay Area Entrepreneurs Organization Chapters, commonly known as eo. Our member led organization is the best place for entrepreneurs to find, find peers to connect and learn and grow with. Now I'm proud to have been a member of it myself and a leader in the EO organization for over 20 years now and with several different companies. EO members in the Bay Area are supported and connected to over 14,000 members around the world, giving them a whole an access to a whole world of entrepreneurship. If you'd like to apply for membership or get more information on EO and the Bay Area chapters, just visit eonetwork.org you'll find everything you need to know right there. Listen in now as we talk with Mike Birdsall, all about his journey and his business and and everything else. Welcome to the show, Mike.

Thanks Bill. Love to be here. Actually a little nervous with the title of the title of the show, Get Real. It's like, oh right.

I like to say this is where Brene Brown meets how I built this. Right. I think it's totally consistent with our vibe as an organization where people get beyond kind of the surface and all the sort of standard business BS that we talk about. Right.

I agree. You know, it's the grinders and the people that are in the trenches making things happen and making big decisions all the time. So it's fun.

Folks should know that Mike and I actually first met in the 90s way back when in the 90s.

We don't need to do dates or numbers or anything like that. It's just never good.

We actually had different businesses in the same building back then we did in near downtown Jack London area and, and Mike, we became building friends or whatever and, and his company actually did a project for us. So Mike's had like three different businesses at this point. On the third one now to have like been a real business, like over a million dollars. And anyway, I'm just, I'm really excited to have you at the, on the show and, and to kick off this Getting Real series. So first business that I'm aware of was the web design and development company. Right back in the 90s.

Yeah, we did, it was Birds All Interactive. We started in 94 in the back bedroom of our house. And a lot of fun building websites back in the, in the mid-90s and did about a thousand websites. Husband, wife, team. So if I keep saying we and they and us, it's, you know, I've been married 33 years and my wife has been in business with me the whole time. So you know, 26, 27 years. So she's the designer and she was like, I'm kind of tired building websites. You know, we've done a thousand of them. So that was our first business, Birdsall Interactive. That was, that was fun times through the dot com.

Web 1.0.

Web 1.0, yep.

Web 1.0. And then you did Fan Connects. Right. And say a little bit about that.

Probably my favorite business, if I could pick one that I really, really like. I tend to like little perks and like special stuff. And Fan Connects was all about enhancing the fan experience when they're in a sports venue watching a sports game. The good news is I've been to many, many opening day baseball games. Yes. If I said many, I'd probably say 10. I've only seen one.

Yes.

Because the other nine, I was in some server room somewhere in the bowels of a stadium looking at a computer screen, not at the game, but it gave me access. You know, I would, they would hand me an all access pass. And I was like, wait a minute, I need to know what I can't do because you can't give me an all access pass to a stadium and expect me not to access all.

So I'm not a huge sports fan. And I, I, when people talk about games and championships and I sort of fake it, like, yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, how about the Bears? So like whatever. The thing is, you Know, I mean, I enjoy a game. I especially enjoy like in person, not so much the TV and the backstory and all that stuff, but. But the vibrancy of a real game played by real people. And so one of my old client companies when I was in sales was the Chicago Cubs. And I was living in Chicago at the time. And so I had like clubhouse access and all kinds of great stuff to the Cubs. And you could play hooky when they did all the day games, that kind of thing. And then later, actually another company, I had great Bulls tickets. I didn't get those because they were shared amongst a lot of people. I didn't get quite. And then also in the Chicago days, one of our other client companies was Mike Ditka's restaurant. So I would get both Bears and Ditka's restaurant access. And that was super fun to have like that.

See, that's okay. I mean, just because you have, you know, but you know, when your clients, a sports team, you can't walk in and go, hey, how was the game last night? And they got blown out. You have to be sort of on of what's happening.

Yeah. Where the opposing team's gear to the chat.

Yeah. You have to pay attention.

I've never done that one. So. And then this third business is interesting and, and what's scaling right now and, and shows all kinds of promise is Date Box Club. Right. So talk about the inspiration and how that got started. Tell a little bit of that story.

Yeah. So we started Datebox Club in June of 15. We proudly had two subscribers. One was my sister in law and one was an EO member. And then probably both of those renewed for free for the next month. And so they also got our second box in July. But Day Box Club sort of came around. We were sitting around thinking about ideas and we were like, well, you know what, we know so much about web design. Why don't we build a website for us that's selling widgets? I just want to sell widgets. You know, how do I do that? And at the same time, we were becoming empty nesters. A little bit nervous about being an empty nester. But we kept hearing from our friends saying, you guys do the coolest things. You're going to see the neatest shows and you're going to the nicest restaurants and you're doing all this stuff. How do you find all this stuff? How can, can you help me or give me a heads up? So we're like, oh, there's a business idea. So we came up with an idea about date night360, it was called. And we were going to help people have the perfect date. We're going to set up where to park and what restaurant to go to and what appetizer to have, and we were going to do all that kind of stuff. And we got probably a week away from launching that. And I started really running the numbers, and I was like, this is just not scalable, and it's a lot of work to make a couple bucks, and I don't want to be walking around towns around the country trying to sell this. And we had one section on there that was Date Night at Home. And we're like, let's go with that. So we changed the whole thing around in a week. And we're like, okay, let's just, you know, let's just change this to, you know, at home dating. And that's how it. How it started. So.

That'S really good. So 2015, you start with your brainstorming and you come up with it, and then you get your one friend and one family member to pick it up and that kind of thing. Talk to us about the hard stuff. What has really sucked in the first little bit of this? What's been a real struggle for you so far?

We're going to get to the good stuff.

We'll get to the good stuff soon. But suck, right?

Well, there's two phases, right? There's the phase that we're in now, which we can talk about in the phase that we were in before now. The phase we're in before now is a lot of struggling around doubt. It's a lot of struggling trying to stay optimistic. When we're shipping three or four hundred dollars or three or four hundred boxes and we're making a couple thousand dollars a month, it's like, okay, this is a lot of work. And is this really going to go anywhere? And is this really a business or is this a hobby? The product was good. You know, the packaging was good. You know, we've. We've evolved for sure. And it's a, you know, it's even better now. But, you know, we were putting our heart and soul into it, and we're just like, you know, moving the needle just barely. And then it was super seasonal, so really big holiday season. So from the October through March was big. And then the numbers would just start going off the cliff over the summer. So the summer, you're depressed, you're like, oh, my God, this thing is just. We're losing members like crazy. And then, you know, October, it started to pick. I'm like, oh, this is fun now. But overall, it's like, you know, every year we grew, every month we grew. And, you know, but it was just, you know, that was a struggle. Was like, is this really something we should be putting our time into or is it time to move?

So how many years did you run this business without really being able to support yourself?

Oh, four. I mean, we were doing some web design skills, just a little bit of.

Web design to fill in gaps and make some money on the side. But you support yourself with this for four years?

Yeah, yeah, it was ugly. And, you know, you see your accounts draining and you're like, okay, this is really stupid. You know, how long can we do this? Yeah, we can't keep hiding this, you know, from this reality here. And so, yeah, it was, you know, I actually got to a point where I made a decision that I couldn't do this full time and I needed to go find something else. And I had gone out and I started doing outsourced sales development, business development for companies. I was like, I have. I have to earn money. This is not going to make it.

But you didn't quit it. Like, you let it go. You kept working that in the background. You just didn't rely on it. So you filled in the gap with other things.

Things. Correct.

Tell us, our listeners. Viewers, also, a little bit of some of the like. Like basic silly crap that you had to do. I know you had to fold boxes and fill boxes and stack and create a picture of that for people so they get that sense.

Well, I mean, it's. So Datebox Club is a date night at home. So everything you need in the box and it's all curated, so we do all. And we play multiple games and do multiple things at home before we even put anything in a box. And then we have to source everything. So it's everything from the tissue paper to the envelopes to the boxes to whatever might be in that box. We are sourcing and then making sure it fits within the margins that we need. And, you know, at times we would move forward with a project and we're like, oh, this is a great idea. And then we would get some samples in and we try it and we're like, this is awful. And oh, my gosh, we got. We have to get something in a week. What are we gonna do? We gotta pivot really quickly and get something in a week because we have people that paid for the boxes. And, yeah, we're still doing this at home. Hopefully not for much longer. And we're, we're, you know, we're gonna be kidding next week and we're gonna be putting 4,500 boxes together. My hands are getting sore. I can't, you know, after a day of, one day of kidding, I'm. We're pretty tired, I think. We watch and we measured. We do nine miles around our tables in our house.

Yeah. So thank you for not over, for like giving people a real picture. Right. That's the spirit of the show getting real. You're literally filling your house with boxes and crap that you're going to send out to people. And what started with a handful of, of subscribers is now thousands of subscribers and you're filled. And how many of these boxes, how often are you doing a new box?

We're doing a new box every month, so there's no repeats. We might recycle an idea out of an older date, but we're coming up with dates. Maureen is, my wife is coming up with dates all the time.

Dates are occasions. Like a time with a couple to spend the evening at home doing something with an activity. Right, right.

Activity and a snack and some way. And we call it a connector piece. How do we get connected? How do we talk? How do we remember why we loved each other? You know, sometimes that's a little more difficult than other times, but you know. Yeah, it's a whole experience. So you can sit down, you open up the box, you open up the card, it gives you instructions. You follow the instructions, you do an activity. That activity could be a game, that activity could be a craft. That activity could be something a little bit more deep. We try to balance that. And then, you know, there's some other fun stuff in the box, but it's just, it's a whole theme night kind of thing. So, you know, upcoming is Valentine's Day. We've got our, our ever so popular chocolate fondue. So I've got 5,000 fondue pots sitting on my front porch. I can't see out my living room window at this point. And then we have our, our popular foreplay game. It's a timer and with cards. And you go through that. That's in my, my family room right there. My garage is non existent at this point. I've got Rice Krispie treats and I've got melting chocolates in the driveway and I've got, you know, so yeah, it's, it's a lot.

I think we have four or five fun new parts pots at home from the, from the 70s, pretty much. And we would typically bust them out like once or twice a year. Nothing this last year because we're not doing anything with anybody else. And I tend to think of it not as a couple's activity, but as a whole group activity. Like the fondue thing.

Yeah, these are little fondue pot. So these are like small, little like 6 inch kind of fondue.

Not a savory fondue thing, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what are the. Well, actually, let's talk about the core customer for this business first. Who is it and what have you figured out about that? How has that evolved over time?

Yeah, so I mean we started, as I said, we started from our friends, empty nesters. And our friends were asking us what we were, you know, what we do and how we find this out. And so we went into it with that. We sort of designed the website with that audience in mind. And what we found was that was not our audience. We are not the audience. We found the audience was younger, you know, 25. It ended up being 25 to 35. One or two young kids at home, still really invested and you know, they miss the attention they used to be able to give to each other. Now that's been taken away, but their priorities have moved to the children. They're exhausted, maybe they don't find a babysitter. So they want to put the kids to bed. They want to do something that connects them quickly and have a good time and sort of do that. So that's our audience. We ended up having to change our logo, change our website, change sort of the, you know, there's a look and feel that that age group expects versus our age group. You know, we were doing websites heavily into tech and so that was sort of our style. We had to get out of that style and into more of a consumer, a 25 to 35 consumer style. So it's a lot, you know, and even after a thousand websites, I was surprised how much we still needed to learn about web design and about client acquisition and about all of that. It was a, it was a big hill to climb. We're still learning.

Isn't it interesting to have a background in aesthetics and a range of style that you were comfortable with? Maureen does the design of the thing and she's a huge creative influence. I know. So you've got that and you start thinking it's. You design something around that's sort of of interest to you. And I know personally, I'm an empty nester also. We're about the same age and our, and, and the Pressure accelerate on the relationship as the kids moved out. Like the focus is not so much on the kids anymore. And then you look at each other and you're like, what the heck are we doing here? And so it accelerates the pressure to deal with things maybe that have been neglected for a while in the relationship. So I get that you would think that it would be this group, yourself and people like you and us and then to discover the other and have to shift both the content, the marketing, the esthetic, the whole vibe to that is really interesting. How long did that take you to see that, that it was one, not the other?

Maybe, maybe, you know, what you do is you build the website and you wait and see what happens. Right. And so as it grew ever so slowly, we, you know, you're always asking yourself, okay, what else can we do? Or what else might be an issue or what else? How do we optimize? And then as we were collecting data and looking at the numbers, we're like, wow, this is, you know, it's heavy. A lot younger. And so it was fascinating. And so it probably took us six months to get the data and then maybe two or three months to go, oh, and then another month to do it, change it. You know, we're, I'm blessed. We're blessed because Maureen is a graphic designer and super creative and so we can pivot really quickly on stuff.

Yeah. Have you made any big mistakes yet that you can see now in looking back? I know in the moment we don't always see our mistakes, but hindsight, they say, is 2020. What are the realizations that you've had besides, hey, we were speaking to the wrong customer.

You know, I hesitate to say we haven't made mistakes, so I'm not going to say that I can say that. We've been really in tune to the lessons that we learned previously, the lessons we Learned through the.com. bomb time. And those mistakes were tremendous and we really struggled through that. The mistakes that we made during the 09 recession. This time our minds are really open. Our minds are really, we're willing and really want to sort of look at like, okay, stop thinking the way we've been thinking. How else do we need to think here? So we're really open minded. We're really, you know, looking to change. You know, we, we changed platforms, we changed e commerce platforms on November 1st. So right before Black Friday, Cyber Monday, we're like, we, this is holding us back. We need to change now. So I think we've done some pretty bold Moves and some bold decisions. And, you know, we're still doing that. We're right in the middle of one right now, so. Yeah.

Okay, so we're going to talk about the. The breakthrough and how things are going now and the new set of problems. Before we do that, talk a little bit about what it's like to work with your partner professionally for all these times. I worked with my wife for over 10 years together in the same business. It was very challenging in lots of fronts, personally, romantically, professionally, but it also was great in some others. Talk a little bit about that. What's that like for you?

Yeah, I would say the first year was pretty rough for anyone that was even around us that we had working for us. You know, we had a. Maureen was doing some design, I was selling some printing, and I was finding websites that people wanted designed and I would give them to her. And so we sort of launched it that way. So we had one or two people that were working for us, and she and I butted heads a lot. We're two alphas. We're very strong individuals. What we found, you know, I had a marketing background, so I would come back after talking to a client, and they would, you know, I would say, well, I told the client that they should be doing this, and this was a great idea, and this is how we're going to design their website. And Maureen would stop and look at me and say, unless, you know, Photoshop, stop telling clients what this is going to look like. I was like, oh, okay.

So that turf.

Yeah, yeah. So really early on, it was very clear lines of division. You know, she didn't tell me how to sell. We rarely, rarely, rarely went on appointments together because it never worked. It never worked. And so we just were really clear about, what's your job? What's my job? Don't step over here. You don't step over there. And. And that was good. I would say that there. There was also a big lesson around ego, really seeing the bigger picture. If we were going to be successful, we couldn't have our egos involved. And so we'd have to. And we had to sort of embrace who each other was. So I would bring projects to Maureen and she would be like, what do they do? And I'm like, I don't know. They said yes. They said yes. Here's a project. Here's what they need. Here's how much they're willing to spend. See you later. She'd be like, you didn't even. I don't know what they do. I don't care what they do. So, you know, but that was a bigger lesson. Ego and all that kind of thing. But, yeah, it's. We were just talking the other night, you know, maybe a week ago, going, this is a such a unique relationship that we have the fact that she has a talent and I have a talent, and we can come together and build a business, and we still like each other. We really enjoy strategizing and thinking through problems, and we don't love each other the wrong way. You know, when we're trying to be creative, she'll come with an idea, and I'll be like, well, that's not going to work. And that's not going to work. She gets mad at me because I'm the no guy. You know, I always see the pitfalls and the negatives. You always say no. I'm like, well, it's a bad idea. But in the end, you know, we work together so well, we come up with some great ideas.

If you were going to go back and give your younger self some advice before these. This is. What would you say that you would change to wish you'd learned earlier?

Oh, you know, I think that every mistake I've made and every. Every decision I've made has got me here. And I'm pretty happy where I'm at. You know, I wish I had had a crystal ball to say, it's going to be okay. And look. Look where you're going to be. Stop stressing. You know, there's lots of sleepless nights or lots of nights you wake up, you know, in the middle of the night, you know, cold sweats and that kind of stuff where you're, you know, it would have been nice not to have to go through some of that, but it makes you stronger. It's just. It's like, whatever. I'm not complaining about what I went through. I got a beautiful life, you know, I've got a, you know, beautiful house and family, and it's great. It. It's a lot of work. It's a lot. It's a lot better than working for somebody else. I'm.

I'm. Yeah.

Unemployable at this point. Yeah, it didn't work for me. Somebody else. It just really didn't. I was always restless, and I can be restless with my own business and make money. I'm okay.

I. The two things that used to keep me up at night were cash crises. If I'd seen impending cash crisis where something was going to all come and. And that I. I wasn't being protected from my finance department. And then the other one was production issues. So producing in Asia, shipments missing, delayed. People are not really telling you the truth or the. All the facts or not even answering communications.

Right.

Those common things that used to keep me awake, you know, or wake me up at three in the morning like, holy crap, this thing's gonna all blow up.

Totally understand. Cash for sure. That was a big deal. And, yeah, we still have those production questions. I mean, stuff showed up yesterday, and I'm like, okay, we're kidding. In two days. Thanks. Thanks for that stress that you gave me. That was unnecessary. But, yeah, it's. It's. But that's fine.

So talk about the breakthrough. What's happened since the pandemic? And what kinds of problems are you dealing with now?

Yeah, so, pandemic. We were seeing a growth before the pandemic. More growth than we had seen before. Not anything like wow, but more of like, oh, wow. Normally September is lower, normally August is lower, but it's actually a lot bigger this time. And so we were getting excited, and then March happened, and we were like, okay, we're pretty relevant right now. What do we do? How do I put the foot on the gas now? How do I fall forward? And what do I do now? So we hired a PR firm. We got a lot of great stories out. Our biggest challenge has always been awareness. How do I get the word out? How do I let people know about us? And so the PR efforts and the pandemic have helped with our awareness. So we. We're shipping four times the number of boxes we shipped a year ago. And I. And I have on my. My whiteboard right above me that says 5,000 boxes. What if? With a question mark? Because I always want to. I've always looked at that for the last year saying, what if we hit 5,000? How do we do that? And suddenly we're about 5,000. And so the challenge is, my house is full. I'd like to keep my neighbors happy with us living here. You know, we get 10 pallets in our driveway, and, you know, it's just there's a lot going on. I have no more space. Plus, the wear and tear on our.

Bodies, it's gone from a cul de sac to a logistics neighborhood.

Yeah. And, you know, the big trucks roll down the center, and we're running across the street going, hey, would you like some chocolate? You know, hey, neighbor, how about trying the, you know, popcorn we have in our box this month? You know, sorry about this. And so, you know, what we, what we hit was we started looking at office space. We're like, well, let's get a warehouse and let's put out tables and let's get a bigger space. And that to me sounded really exciting. I'm a hard worker. I don't mind working hard. I feel accomplished when I work hard, physically hard. But then again when we said, you know, we're not going to make those same mistakes and we're going to be bold, I don't want to be at the same level. I want to be double this. I want to be what if 10,000 and if it's what if 10,000. I don't want a warehouse. I don't, can't, I can't do it. I can't have people issues. I can't have body issues. I can't, you know, rain right now. It's raining. It's like Monday. We're kidding. It's supposed to rain. I'm like, okay, well how do I put boxes outside for the, the shipping man to pick up? You know, it's like, no, we need to go to a third party logistics place. We need to go to a fulfillment center and we need to, we need to, you know, step up. We need to figure out what that next step is.

So let's get into where you're going next in just a second. I want to remind our listeners, viewers that this episode is spons by the Bay Area Entrepreneurs Organization Chapters, commonly known as eo. Our member led organization is the best place for entrepreneurs to find peers to connect, learn and grow with. And I'm super proud to have been a member and leader for over 20 years now with several different companies. EO members in the Bay Area are then supported and connected to over 14,000 worldwide. So there's access to a whole world of entrepreneurship, learning, resources, ideas, people who've been there and done that before in something that you're undertaking and, and I know you're tapping into that. If you'd like more information about eo, you can drop us on here. But if you want to get more information, get connected, just visit eonetwork.org and everything you need to know. You can apply for membership right there if you'd like to do that or, or get more information, whatever it is. So let's, let's give thanks. We've both been involved in EO for ever and ever and ever again.

We're not using the numbers.

Yeah, yeah, what, what have you gotten and what are you getting out of that? Your net, your relationship with the organization today.

Well, I would as related to this, right? Like, yeah. I mean, I don't even know how to answer that. My mind spinning. How do I. But I mean, I would say that our new business, we started this five years ago. And I would say that my. You pushed me out of the nest. We've been complaining and struggling with what's after web design and what do we do? And complaining. And I had a format that finally said, dude, just do something. Don't come back and say the same thing. Go do something. Even if it's wrong to do it. Don't make. Just do it. Yeah. Then the ability to come in and go, hey, here's my idea. Here's my business plan, here's my pricing, here's all my numbers. You know, here's the box. What do you think? And get honest feedback. So tremendous. I mean, where can you do that? The level of conversation, you know, I had a conversation with another subscription box company, Neo, and we were comparing numbers and I was like, oh, I'm so.

Proud of my margins.

And they're like, what are they? And I told them, and he shook his head and he goes, no, that's awful. They should be here. I'm like, no way. There's no way I can get there. He's like, well, what would you need to do to get that number there? And I'm like, I'd have to do this and this and this. And then he looked at me and went, okay, duh. Like, damn it. All right. Just the honesty, you know, I don't need sugar coating. I need to know. I mean, and. And then to answer the question very specifically, even about all this during. During the pandemic, you know, I've been through the dot bomb. I've been through the.09. The amount of information provided to me by EO that allowed me to make decisions. I don't need decisions made for me. I don't need to be told what to do. I just need the information so I can figure out what's right for me. And was. It was overload and it was fantastic.

So let's talk about where you're going next. I'm very excited about this. What's the big goal now? What are you trying to accomplish? What do you see?

So the big goal is to hit 10,000 boxes a month. And, you know, it's a combination of stuff. We could maybe, if I look at that, we could add another line and add another type of box. So we're looking at date box, adult or date box. Intimate, that's a little more sexy. We're kind of PG, maybe PG 13. And so we're like, well maybe we do a box that's a little more racy or we expand, do better with digital marketing and advertising.

You go from chocolate fondue to edible finger painting.

Yes, whatever you think. Then again, remember I said that we test out every product so there's advantages to that kind of a product line anyway. Yes. So, so, you know, there's a lot. So we're, we're trying to expand. I'm trying to get the business to 10,000. You know, to be honest, I've had.

Three near term goal. You're trying to 10x this business, right? That's what I'm.

Yeah, yeah. And that, that to me there's not. The short term goal is to focus on the long term goal is to set the long term goal and go at it.

So just our listeners, I know a little bit more with Mike's business because we're actually helping him work through that strategy coming up real soon. But this is the thing I love when you go and, and take a, undertake a 10x game. Right. You have to rethink everything. It's not incremental at that point.

Right, Correct. Which you know, kind of fits my personality. Right. I get bored. I like startups, I like new things.

I don't want to imagine, I want.

To do it differently. And so let's figure out what we need to do. So that's me.

It's got to be different. Right. Because while you like to work hard and you like to be busy and Maureen likes to be creative and touch the things and deal with stuff and see and like that visceral, tactile kind of thing. I know you both dig that, but you're going to have to find a way to satisfy that but not be so hands on. To get to a 10x future is going to require rethinking the way it's not going to be in your garage anymore. It's not even going to be in a warehouse that you're doing because you can't put that many miles on your shoes filling boxes anymore. It's going to have to move to production and scale well beyond you very soon.

Right. Which, which is exciting. You know what's probably we've had three businesses at a million dollars plus number, but I haven't had any businesses. Zero business really past that. And I want a business past that. And so this is a new challenge for us to go. You know what it's Time. Let's, let's step this up. And we are, you know, one thing I know is we're open and willing and we have the resources, we have the support with EO and we've got, you know, you know, let's, let's learn something new.

Well, a subscription based business with a wide subscriber base that's outsourced, not dependent on you can also really take care of your retirement in a nice way too.

There is that key factor as well.

Yes, yes, there's a lot. I'm super excited about that. So concerns, hopes, fears going forward, what are you grappling with now? What are you looking forward to?

The short term grappling is we've got boxing on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, next week. So I'll be doing nine miles a day walking around tables and exhausted. And usually we go out and celebrate at a nice restaurant so that, you know. Yeah, so we'll celebrate, you know, we celebrate our wins and we're, you know, we're super proud, you know. So the challenge is just to, you know, get to that fulfillment center. We're actively looking now and are feeling pretty good about the process. It scared me at the beginning because I'm like, I like to work hard and this is sort of what I do. And you know, how am I going to fill my time? And then everything arrived at my house and I'm like, I'm kind of excited about not having all these boxes in my garage and in my front yard. So the challenge is just to sort of move the ball forward and get to that stage. We're super excited about creating Date Box Club exclusive products and stuff we're doing now. We're custom making, we made books and we're making candles and we're making games and we're making just some awesome stuff that you can't get anywhere else. And so, you know, I think we're finally getting a secret sauce and a brand around that. So I'm really excited about that.

It's awesome. So I think we should just tell folks, you should go check out dateboxclub.com maybe Lucy could throw the link up in the background there right now so folks can go find out, check it out. Not only to learn about the business, maybe it's a fit for you and your relationship, but also to learn more about, about Mike and Maureen and the business they built. I want to remind our show that if the show helped you, our listeners, viewers, if the show helped you, please share it with somebody else. Pass it around like it subscribe to it. If you subscribe, you'll get we're now doing three shows a week now, so we've got our Tuesday tips, we've got our Wednesday Deep dive and then we've got our Getting Real show starting to come out every week now. If you've got something, some feedback for us or we can help connect you to something, drop us a line, send an email to infocalingcoach.com infocalingcoach.com that 250+ episode back catalog is all@scalingcoach.com we can help you find a coach. We can send you a copy of the book for free and if you're a subscriber, if you send us a picture, a screenshot showing that you subscribe to the show at our website or on itunes or stitcher or a YouTube or wherever you got if you're a subscriber and you send us a little screenshot of that to info scalingcoach.com we'll send you a copy of a whole set of tools that are not released to anyone else. The secret coach tools that help you get your pricing strategy worked out or work through some of the deeper things that we do with our clients in Scaling Up. So I'll give you a whole suite of that stuff that's not yet released to the general public. Only for subscribers. Info scalingcoach.com I want to give special thanks to Vern Harnish, author and creator of the Scaling Up Framework that was born in EO back in the Y E O days in the beginning and it's Rockefeller Habit precursor. Our show is produced by Lucy Summers who's working in the background, scheduling folks, getting the distribution out, getting our guests prepped and that kind of thing. Our audio is edited by Albert Burge at Podfly Productions and the show notes get written up by I'm Kadina proofread by Tim McGowan thanks again everyone for listening watching. Keep scaling up and there's our music to play us out. Bye bye everyone. Talk to you next time.

It.