Meaningful Personalization with David C. Edelman

Foreign.

So there's this hotel that I stay at, I've stayed at maybe a hundred times. And every now and then I go I and I show up and I'm like, how are you doing? And they're like, so have you ever been to a property before? What the hell's the matter with you? You should treat me like I'm a regular. Like, you know, I, not only am I high status here hotel, but I'm in here. I want to be welcomed like I'm here. Being treated personally, being spoken to uniquely as an individual is a powerful, powerful thing. Right? And like old school places, you know, old school mater D's knew how to recognize you and make you feel special even if you weren't so special. Right? And even more if you're not a big wig, to be treated like you're a big wig is powerful.

So.

But what if you're a scaling company? What if you're getting gotten big? You are really big. How do you deliver personalization at scale? That's the subject of our show today. Hey, everybody, I'm Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Scaling Up Business podcast. This show comes to you every week. We've got a great guest, a speaker, an author, a guru, a CEO, somebody with something to share about growing and scaling your business. And you can find more than 600 shows wherever you're getting this right now, like, subscribe, turn on your notifications so you don't miss one. So you get it every week. And of course you can go to our website where we've got all kinds of things, including we'll give you your first coaching session for free. Just not a strategy session or some weird manipulation, just an honest to goodness open coaching around whatever your business growth challenge is. So go to scalingcoach.com and look for that. All right, so I'm joined now by Dave Adelman. So Dave's got kind of a, I know you might call it a pretty good background. HBS, BCG, McKinsey, Aetna CVS. He's been written up acknowledging Forbes and Ad Age and on and on and on. Right. And so an extraordinary background and all this kind of thing and has developed and built a world of how do we personalize at scale. A lot of learning around there. So I'm delighted to have you to the show.

Terrific to be here, Bill.

So I don't know, why don't we start with something a little different to begin with? If you were going to personalize a playlist for your life so far, right. What Would your playlist be. What would your. Your lineup, your groove line?

It would definitely have Rebel Rebel by David Bowie, just for a number of reasons. One is just trying to buck things in whatever place I was to get people thinking differently and accepting different ways of getting things done. And also just. David Bowie is an artist I've admired.

In terms of all.

All the different phases he went through, and especially the way he surrounded himself with incredibly talented people. Not always the same people. Depending on what he was trying to do, he found people who would really push his ideas. And that's something I find so important in business. I. I play saxophone. I'm in a jazz combo, and I always want people who are going to push me. And so I think that that would certainly be on. On the playlist. And otherwise, a lot of electric, eclectic stuff, everything from new wave to African music to jazz. I'm all over the map.

And you play in a jazz band. You play saxophone?

I do. I play tenor saxophone. Yes. I have since being a kid. Yeah. Played in the college.

Oh, Just froze for me.

Oh, here I am.

Yeah, can hear you.

All right.

All right.

So no. Saxophone has always been a through line for me. Pit bands in school. All through my whole life, I've been playing in ensembles.

That's awesome music. Such a relevant thing. And I don't know exactly the connection to personalization, but certainly each of us has our favorite songs and the vibe that we like, and it changes over time and evolves go through our life. That's an interesting thing about personalizing. Of course, today, so many music services are built around, like, building your unique playlist.

Right.

And really killing off radio as we knew it. Where I had been involved in different ways for many years, and now, like, we're all creating our own playlist for whatever the mood is of the day.

Actually, a funny thing, Bill, just going way back, way back. In terms of. You want a personalization music link? I'll give you two. One is when in 1989. And this is going to age me in terms of how old I am.

Yeah.

Three different companies had asked. I was at bcg, had asked us. We're collecting customer data. There's got to be something we can do for that. And we help them build loyalty programs, targeted advertising. And this was before the Internet. And I thought there was something real there. Got some investment money from bcg, lives on it, and came up with the term segment of one more. Really launched a lot of my career. One of the things. Had us.

Hey, we should pause. We should either restart this or whatever.

I can't.

Can't hear you well enough. It's free.

Companies who all were wondering what to do with customer information that they were starting to collect back in 1989, before the Internet. And I was a young consultant and we helped these companies develop loyalty programs, targeted marketing. And I came up with the term segment of one marketing for where this was going to go and wrote an article titled that. And in that article predicted what became Spotify. The only difference was I didn't say it was all you could eat. I predicted they'd have some kind of cost model where you'd pay like a penny per listen and you'd get a monthly bill of some kind. But otherwise it was there. And here we are over time. One of the things I realized was all of this stuff about personalization isn't just about marketing, though. It's about the whole customer experience. And especially now with new tools that are out there, AI tools. It's about creating a whole different kind of value proposition. And in essence, that's what Spotify is. It's a different kind of value proposition where it's learning about you, it's using data from your interactions, your ups, your thumbs up, thumbs down, what you listen to when you listen to it, all of that to then give you value, to help you discover new music, get joy. And I actually believe we are gradually picking to do business with more and more brands that use our information in ways that make our lives easier. And so whether it's digital natives like Spotify or Uber or Netflix, but. But it is increasingly moving towards things that are not digital natives, like defaulting to use the Starbucks app to place a mobile order. Now, that may have backfired on them because too many people did it and it created an operations issue there. But they, in an incredibly short period of time, you get a completely tailored experience on that Starbucks app. Howard Schultz went public and said he wanted Starbucks to be the most personalized brand in the world. They're a coffee company. So he saw that as a way of competing and rallied all the capabilities around that. And I'm seeing this in more and more sectors. And it was the reason we decided to write the book.

You know, it's fascinating because I, and I like, I personally think about experiences that I have where it's done well and where it's done poorly. I think of call centers and customer service in general, where it's done poorly but could be so great, you call in every now and then, you get somebody who recognizes your phone, and then Identifies you and is like, welcome back, William. You know? Thank you. Are you calling about your flight today to xyz? I'm like, yo, this is great, right? But then other times, it's like, okay, enter your phone number. And then you get a person on the phone, and they're like, okay, tell me, what's your account number again? And they want to go through the. I'm like, come on, transfer the information. You know who I am by now, your system should be smart enough to do that. And you ought to recognize if I have any, you know, seniority, loyalty, or, you know, anything like that in your world. But we don't often do that, right? Like, Ritz Carlton is famous for doing that. I remember I went to one hotel, and then I came back later, and they remembered what kind of wine I liked. And another, when they rec. They remembered my name, but it was the first time I'd stayed there. Welcome back, Mr. Gallagher. And I'm like, holy crap. How did you figure that out? Like, you know, being treated like they see you, they know you. Your uniqueness, your preferences is so powerful and much easier to do today with technology. And yet, if you look in the mirror, I think a lot of our companies are not doing that very well.

Yeah. I mean, just think about every time when you walk into a medical office and you get a clipboard that you have to fill out manually, and they're part of a network where your doctor is in that network. They should be able to just get all of that information immediately. You know, why are they making you do that? I recently moved and immediately was bombarded with emails from Home Depot.

And then sales contracts. That's pretty well tracked. And there's a lot of marketing around that.

Yeah, yeah. And so just completely. But when I was just about to unsubscribe, they then asked me, what's your next project? And I said, bathroom renovation. But then they just bombarded me with bathroom stuff. They could have. They. They could have said, what's your budget these days? You could do something. This capability is there. Take a picture of your current bathroom. They could actually see the dimensions. They could get that from a picture. Tell me your budget. Tell me the kinds of changes you want. And then they could come back with gen AI generated concepts based on stuff they sell of. Here's three different possibilities. We can coordinate the installation that is totally capable. I believe they will get there, but we are. It takes a cross functional mindset, A mindset about customer value versus just pushing to sell. And that's hard for companies to make that kind of pivot.

You know, I think there's something that it's interesting, the tension between delight and annoyance and creepy. So years ago, I predict where you called around the world if you were an international caller. And then we applied it in our creative at a big telephone company and we said, and our first one of our first piece of creative went out and said, because you called Germany, we've got a special calling plan for you. And that was horrible. It went over so bad. People freaked out. They're like, how do you know you're spying on me? You know, and we have that today. Like, oh, I was talking about this and then my phone showed me this ad and they're listening to me, right? We have that notion where it feels too creepy or too connected. We shifted our creative a little bit and it was just fine. We said, if you call Western Europe, then we have something that might work for you. So a little less clear now, we knew exactly where you called correlation, right? But when we shifted it to be a little less creepy, it went over really, really well. And we did a variety of things like that. You think about it today and I'm struck by two things. One of them is every now and then the online ads and the things I get in my mailbox are like delightful and fit my actual interests. But a lot of times I'm fed stuff that I'm like, are you using any targeting whatsoever? There's nothing about me that's of interest to that ad. And how come like half the things I'm thrown in either my mailbox or, or my, you know, online browsing, like, have seem to have nothing to do with anything they care about. Like when we could be so targeted, so specific.

Right, Absolutely. And the data is there to do it. It's just a question of again changing your mindset from just volume, volume. And this is a danger now with AI tools because with the new generative AI tools you can find, you can predict who you think are going to be everybody who's possibly eligible. And a very simple way is just finding all new movers. And then you can generate, using new tools, Jasper, other tools, you can generate all the content you want. You can even create variations off a theme and just bombard people. And this is a real risk. And I've actually seen the danger of this when I came in, when I was chief marketing officer at Aetna, I became an Aetna health insurance member as well. So I was a customer as well as chief marketing officer and I was starting to get bombarded by my own team all the stuff that was coming out from a marketing perspective. And I started wondering, who's coordinating this? Where is this all coming from? And I actually asked for an analysis. Let's look at how often we're hitting people and what their open rate is, and then what's their actual action? Actions taken. And it was very clear that there was a curve where at more than four touches a month, people just tuned out. You were spam, and that was dangerous when it's something like health insurance. So it's less is more, especially smarter, less is more. That's more tailored to you. But there is an operations and a mindset that has to come. Come about in order to make that happen. And most companies have the tools to do that. They may have, you know, Salesforce, HubSpot, Klaviyo, all these tools. They are perfectly capable of doing these things. It's really just a question of deliberately testing less and actually seeing what the impact is versus trying to hit your target by bombarding more.

Yeah. Paying attention to all that. Well, you also had some experience with solar and sunevity, negative ones. You tell me about how that went and what worked.

Yeah. So this was an amazing experience. And it frankly was the catalyst for saying, we gotta write a book on this, on personalization and where it's going. So this was just before COVID the town I was living in then Lexington, Massachusetts, offered an incentive for people to get solar panels. You can get a property tax credit. That opened the floodgates for marketing. Everybody trying to pitch you 40% off this 25. It was really hard to understand because they're all talking about different things. Solar panels are actually not that simple. There's the cost of panels, the installation. What happens if you generate too much energy and you want to sell it back? Tax incentives. Anyway, one piece of mail, physical mail came through, said, we've done the math on your house at this address, Edelman family. And there is a personalized URL in this envelope that'll tell you how you can save over 20% per year on your annual energy bill with sunevity. So open the envelope, type in the URL, and I immediately see a Google Earth image of the roof of my house with solar panels Superimposed on it. Down the right side is a calculation of how much energy that number of panels is going to generate given the longitudinal latitude of my home and the north south orientation of my roof.

Right.

So then they go to Zillow, get the square footage of my house, and Use that to estimate how much energy I. I use over the course of a year. So they have the numerator from the solar panels. The denominator from Zillow comes to 21.3%. And that impressed me. Right. That is personalized. That's all information that I don't.

Yeah.

But then it goes a couple of steps further. Click here to learn more. I'm immediately put into a video conference with a sales guy who sees that I'm. Mr. Edelman, has all the information. Boom right there transferred because I was on that URL. Goes right to him. He greets me and immediately starts going through the different leasing or buying options on the screen, making it super simple and giving me the email addresses of two of my neighbors who have worked with them. So it. It made sense economically. Got great reviews from the neighbors. We did it and I didn't even look at a competitor because it was. The experience was so simple and the math made sense. And then from that point on, everything was managed through an app. So scheduled the installation tracked how much energy when a squirrel ate through one of the wires. I got a notification. And then we scheduled for them to come out and fix it. And one year we didn't save 20% and I got a check.

So. Huh.

So it was. It was a powerful personalized experience.

Really interesting. Yeah. Not enough of that in most of our marketing experiences. And you think about that as being a very like, we'd all love to be taken care of smartly, efficiently. Not with some person who seems to not be able to remember who we were from one call to the next. And weirdo.

It was totally seamless. And that's what made me realize this is becoming a way to compete. So at the top level of the company, you have to commit to this. There's a lot of different pieces that have to come together. So I actually tracked down the chief marketing officer of Longevity and talked to her and found out how'd you get to this and all. And it didn't happen overnight. It took them about 18 months of test and learn, test and learn different ways of what the envelope should be, how to generate, how to render it, how the interaction with the rep should be constantly testing and learning. But that they had that philosophy that they knew they had to differentiate themselves because solar panels are a commodity and they needed to distinguish themselves because the experience could actually be complicated.

For sure. Can having shopped for some solar for our house and been really frustrated with all the different things I was being told and how they don't tie together and they're not very comparable. And yeah, really, really interesting in that world. So why don't you contrast Cisco and Cisco, two different companies, similar sounding names in very different lines of business.

Yeah. So they're totally different stories. So let me first talk about Cisco, the food delivery company similar to Starbucks. They have an app for ordering. And when a purchasing manager in a restaurant opens that app in 300 milliseconds, that app knows who they are, this, the restaurant location, their menu, their price points, what they tend to consume, at what rate, whether they tend to buy in bulk or on spot. And then it also knows in the local warehouse what they have available. And because it's food, there's stuff they want to move. So they may give you an incentive, a new idea for something on your menu with a discount for something they want to move. And all of that makes it so easy and personalized. So we've interviewed a number of the customers who use this app and they say it's just totally changed the way they buy. It's made them feel like they are being more efficient. They're discovering actually new menu items and it's a totally different kind of relationship than if they had to from scratch constantly figure out what to order. So that's a powerful experience that brings together a lot of capabilities. They're empowering the buyer. They know the buyer, the buyer can reach them just through the app. And then they are providing incentives through that interactive experience. They are showing a personalized interface to that buyer because of the highlights of what's relevant for them. And they're delighting them because as it learns more about the buyer, it gets better and better.

Yeah.

And so go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say I think it's interesting, like, look, a farm to table restaurant is not a Cisco customer in all probability. Right. But so if you're a Cisco, you're supplying for the vast majority of restaurants, you're supplying them all kinds of things, food products and related kitchen things to keep your restaurant business running. Let's be smart about it. Let's bring technology to bear on it. Right. It's, it's not the other. So know your world and then like make the best of that.

Yeah. And, and so there's, you know, simple predictive model tools. Think about the data that you're getting when somebody orders from you. You can capture that and use that. And there's tools to help you predict when they might want to reorder and what you would promote to them. So a totally different example Is the other Cisco, the technology company?

Yes.

So they have over 100 products. And if you're a salesperson at Cisco, you are overwhelmed because there's so many products and you've got number, you've got a large number of customers, how do you know what to talk to whom about? Most of what you ended up doing was taking the latest product announcement, sending it to customers and hoping that interests somebody. But the vast majority of customers are not going to be interested in some specific product announcement. And so it was harder for them to get sales calls. So what they did was step back and they brought together marketing and sales under one leader actually. So her name was Jerry Elliott and we had great discussion with her and she said they created on a CRM on steroids, where for each of not the companies and their users, they would track how people are using the products that they had, how often, whether that was going up or down, which features they were using, what marketing content they have looked at in the past. Then also looking at firmographic information. So how big is the company, how dispersed is the company? They used outside information to see does this company, is it having financial problems, is it involved in acquisition, is it expanding into new geographies? And through all of that they created on a single pane of glass for the salesperson, their hit list for the week. Who should they call with what and why? Why? That's really important. And so from the customer's perspective, it's personalized because they are getting much more relevant contacts from the salespeople, things they do want to talk about. And so the interaction rate of the reps with customers went up, cross sell rate went up. And basically more and more and more of the reps were adopting the system. So it was a, it was a total home run. And so there's a good example from a B2B perspective. Actually both of them are B2B of where you've got a channel in the middle and you're empowering the channel to give a personalized experience to the end customer.

Yeah, I love that. I love combining all those things together to create a personalized. Especially as your company gets bigger and bigger, right. If you have a corner store and my son has a tea shop up the street, he loves to go to, they know him, he knows them, they know about his family and so on. Like, but now let's have a thousand stores, let's be Starbucks or something like that. How do we create that in a meaningful way? How do you turn. I mean Cisco either. Cisco are both very big Companies with huge customer lists. But, and you might think your local rep would be good, but they're all Both handling like 100 customers in both.

Cases and many products. And how do you stay abreast of all of that?

Yeah, I, you know the airlines fly. I, I fly a scary amount and every week on average at least one other city, often two. And you know, so, but I, and I'm like hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of other flyers out there. But you know, because I'm like my name's on the thing and welcome and board first because you fly so much. And then the other day I was flying somewhere and the flight attendant came over and handed me a little card in an envelope and I opened it up, there was a handwritten note. Welcome Mr. Gallagher. Thank you for being and thank you for crossing this milestone and whatever like super personalized. But somebody somewhere, their system told him, okay, we have a flyer who's had a milestone. Let's give him a personal note and say thank you. Right. Like and like really lovely. You know, in a sea of other things I mentioned earlier, the Ritz Carlton company like in, but you know, in business to business, in service, in hospitality, in any realm, it seems like there's a real opportunity to.

Yeah. Actually in our book we interviewed Peggy Rowe who is the chief customer officer for Marriott and they have 37 brands. So Ritz is one of those and 36 others. And they are expanding that capability across the brands with information support. But one of the things they're they're doing is creating a preference center for Bonvoy members. So if you're in the loyalty program, they're going to encourage you to go and actually tell them what do you like to drink, what's your pillow preferences? You know, do you like fruit versus chocolate?

Right.

So what are the kinds of local experiences that tend to interest you if you want to get alerts when you're going to a city of things that are happening nearby. And so they have this preference center that they're building and so that's a way of bringing some of the Ritz kind of capabilities to lower end properties. And they, they see that as just critical and it's even going to go further because soon you'll have a chatbot on the Marriott Bonvoy app where you can just tell them, you know, I want to go to Spain with my family for 10 days. I've got two teenage kids. Let's use as much points as possible. We want great dining experiences. Only want to stay in three hotels over the 10 days, give me a few, here's my budget. Give me a few options.

Yeah, it's interesting, you know, I used to be a big Marriott customer because, and I really chose them because they have the most rooms and most brands. And I'm like, so if I'm going to consolidate my travel, I should be Marriott, right? And then two things happened that were really interesting. So before the pandemic, every time I went to use my considerable, I was their top tier member and I'd be like, okay, I want to go to Hawaii with all my extra points or I want to go to like Tahoe and go skiing any of the really desirable properties in the peak season, I couldn't use the points in that like the best property, like, huh. So what's the point of having all these points? Right? So that was the first thing that was kind of like every time I kept trying to use them I'm like, oh, you could get an upgrade at this downtown Marriott or whatever. The place where I least cared about using my points, I was getting, being allowed. So that was a. And then the pandemic happened and I didn't get back to hotel stays fast enough and they dropped me down two tiers. Like, and while the Ritz Carlton experience was really good, a lot of the brands, they were just like, you know what, like a very average experience. So I started shifting away to another hotel brand and put all my effort into hitting the air like globalist, top level thing because I'm like, oh, I could use my points all the time and they upgrade me every time and they recognize and I'm like, you know, there's a company who had all of it. In my case, they drop the ball, right. But they have an opportunity here to get smart about that. You know, what happens to me doesn't matter that much and maybe someday I'll get back to them. But that, that like if they could get smart and bring that experience across all the properties and brands and they could tie in the front desk system so they recognize and they actually take care of you like you're a big macher. Well, that's like a whole different.

Yeah. And just you've got to tie together so many different functions to make it work. So you know, in your, you know, because some of these properties, a lot of them Marriott operates but the owners have a separate say there's different issues on pricing, you've got the front desks, so it's a big job to put together and they, you know, you talk to Peggy, they are on it and she provides some good examples. But yeah, I mean, this is one of the challenges. But for smaller businesses, Bill, like the ones who you work with, they're not as big and complex. They should be able to have the different parts of the business sit at a table together and get it working. So this kind of focus on the customer and using information to make that experience happen should actually be easier.

Well, at the core level, right. At the smallest company, think about when you visit someone's business. Look around, do they have a favorite sports team? Do they have pictures of their family? Do they have pictures of pet? Like, what are the clues in their world? And then when you bring that back and start to scale that up, are you building and institutionalizing that information so that you're using it as you go from a handful of customers to thousands of customers? Right. Like at the smaller company level, that's the progression. Our clients, of course, start from as little as solopreneurs. Not that many, but a few, and then up to many thousands of employees. Um, and at every stage, there's a way to do it, but it starts with actually being interested in tailoring your message and interactions to that person. Right?

Yeah. And you have to have data as a key thing you're focusing on to actually gathering that and thinking about. What other data could I gather just by asking people questions? We call that zero party data. And in the book, we talk about different levels of data and where to get it, and one of the most valuable is just asking people, and then they're willing to tell you if they feel it's appropriate, but then they expect you to do something with it. So that.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, lots of good meat here to talk and connect about. Let's put up the link to your site and. Awesome.

You can connect with me. You. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I've got a very active presence there.

And I'm guessing you have a link for the book personalized there as well?

Yes, yes, absolutely. We. We sure do. And the big yellow book, Personalized Customer Strategy in the age of AI. You'll see it on. On LinkedIn on our post. So, and there's just been. It's been a very interesting to see how people are getting new ideas. One of. There's two basic things we wanted people to get from the book. One is that personalization isn't just a marketing tactic. It's not just about putting someone's name on or manipulating content or just simply targeting people. It's about a customer experience. And then the second Part is, in order to do that customer experience, it requires different parts of the company working together. And so it's not.

It takes a village that in the execution that makes all the difference. Yeah, right.

Marketing may be the catalyst and you know, the quarterback to coordinate and drive it, but you often have to work with service operations, delivery, sales, digital capabilities, even the chief financial officer, chief legal officer. And we talk about, there's a whole chapter about all the different roles and how they have to work together. And so we're getting good feedback that as people read it and think about it, they are recognizing the multilateral nature of what it takes to get this done. And that's been one of the valuable things I've been hearing.

It's interesting. So we lead in on the marketing side. The first touch point the from awareness to the interaction of whatever the sales cycle's like, and then you've got the actual delivery. And if you're really smart up front, but you don't make the experience complete on the back end, you completely miss the opportunity to create a holistic experience of a personalized connection with your company.

Yeah. And you know, for example, if so one of the things we realized when I was at Aetna, we wanted people to trust us. Not just simply to get their insurance from us, but to actually listen to us. If we tried to get them to do healthier behaviors that would make them healthier and it would save everybody money. And so we wanted people to feel personally connected with us. But health insurance is complicated. People feel alienated. And so we had to get the general service level bar up. But then we had to find a way to connect with people individually. And so we created personalized videos for all new members, worked with a company called Sunday sky. And it would explain to you bill, the health insurance that you have bought because essentially you are buying it. Even if you get it from an employer, you're still paying a lot towards it. So who in your family is covered? Who has a primary care physician relationship? If you don't, here are five in your local area. Click here to schedule and on and on and explaining all the different terms of the economics, how they work, how to make decisions to stay in network. Here are benefits that you could take advantage of that given the data we have about you, we think would be relevant. It was an absolute home run. 70% of people watched a 3 1/2 minute video. Calls to the call center went down because people were happy and they understood things. Their net promoter score went up. People even opened our emails more Often because they trusted us. So that kind of thing. That capability, by the way, is incredibly inexpensive. There are so many tools out there and Sunday sky itself is being used by a lot of small businesses. So just even simple things like that you can get started doing.

Yeah, I hear not doing it at a surface level, starting wherever you start, but continuing to integrate it over time so that it's meaningful. It's not just hi, insert first name here. We see that you looked at XYZ and we're wondering that surface level going deeper across all touches before, during, after the purchase experience, how do we create that connection, be smarter and smarter about it. And you think about it today with AI, both the ability to process it, the data that you can collect and manage over the customer experience, and then how you can make it like more delightful more. It's actually a pleasure to see.

Yeah. Think about in your product. Learn, buy, get, use, pay, get support. All of those are different parts of the journey. All of those have an opportunity to bring value to your customers based on information you have about them. It's harder in things like packaged goods where you don't have a direct connection and you're completely selling through a channel. But for any business that has direct customer contact, there's an opportunity across all stages of that cycle.

Well, on the services side of the B2C and of course across all B2B, there's a huge, huge opportunity to do it.

Yep. And even on B2C for package goods, you can personalize to your channels to the retailers who you're dealing with. Right. So it's the same thing. It's like Cisco, the same kind of thing. You know, personalizing to your. Think of yourself as a B2B customer, a B2B player, and then personalizing to your customers there.

All right, lots of good things to think about. Let's throw that URL there again. Adelmanadvisoryservices.com is a place to go. Check out more with Dave Adelman. Dave, thanks so much for coming on the show and talking with us today about personalizing at scale in the AI era and all that. Our company's gonna do lots of thoughtful things to think about and work on there to get your company going. Not only thanks to you, but also thanks to my friend and mentor, Verne Harnish, who created, created the whole scaling up framework that's at the core of our business of helping companies grow. And to the folks at Storeon, Christel, Seth Cameron team who get our show ready, produced out the door each week. If you want more with us, you go find us@scalingcoach.com or just like and subscribe wherever you are right now. If we can help you, don't hesitate to reach out. I'll always give you a free coaching call. Talk to you soon. Until next time, keep scaling.