Morgan J. Ingram, an ex-SDR turned trainer, explains why automated outreach fails and how real personalization beats fake. He covers DM follow-ups, asking audience questions, and using authentic content to build influence as a sales professional.
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Everybody, we're live and direct once again. Is that audio okay for you or is it.
That's good for me? I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm just. I'm just vibing over here.
I was given advice to vibe less.
I say crank it up.
So we're talking today about social selling. Social selling. You got to be social to sell socially. We're talking about social selling 2.0. What's the latest? We see this done a lot badly every single day. And then every now and then, something good shows up. We're going to talk about that and more with our gast, Morgan Jay Ingram. Hey again, everyone. My name is Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Scaling up business podcast. We bring our show every week to you with guest a thought. Something to do with growing your business people. Strategy, execution, cash and leadership. Five kind of pretty distinct areas. And you'll find hundreds and Hundreds of shows scalingcoach.com or wherever you're getting this show right now. So you might be on LinkedIn, you might be on Facebook, you might be watching us on YouTube. You could be even on Twitter. Not too many on Twitter these days, but you could be watching anywhere. So, like subscribe there if you want to do me something solid. You could go over and give us a review on Spotify or well, on. On Apple Podcasts. That's the place that benefits the most to have some reviews and activity in there, show some engagement. So that's for us. And then for you is all the tools and shows and that kind of thing and more@scalingcoach.com all right, welcome, Morgan J. And Gr. Morgan and I met recently in San Francisco at a. At a really interesting event put on by one of our friends, Brian Wish. And I just thought he had some great things to share and say. And so while we were standing there sharing a glass of wine or. Or actually I was having Bloody Mary that morning.
You were having Bloody Mary. So we were getting aggressive.
If I'm honest, with a beautiful view of the San Francisco Bay. And so that's. That's where we. We met. Connect. Where are you today, Morgan?
I'm. I'm in Atlanta.
Nice.
Hold it down.
Holding it down in Atlanta. Yeah. My wife. Oh, no. She's going to Nashville tomorrow.
But close. Close.
It's in the ballpark. It's around, yeah. Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, actually, I had such a great. I was in Atlanta I don't know, a month ago or something like that. And I have one of my favorite sort of personal memories from Atlanta. The first time I sold a million dollars in one day was in Atlanta. First time I sold a million dollars in one hour was in Pennsylvania, but Atlanta had the first one.
East Coast. East coast is. It sounds like it's the. That's the place for you to be.
I should think about that. I'm definitely with this guy. I'm outside of San Francisco today, but we're talking about social selling, which really, like, connects everywhere. I had a guy send me a message yesterday. Yesterday before yesterday. And he's like, hey, Bill, blah, blah. We met years ago in Costa Rica. It turns out he met my dad, and he wanted me to come speak at a conference down there. And he's like, oh, well, if your dad can't do it, could you do it?
It's like, all right.
I connect to people all the time. I remember my daughter one day, she's working on some graphic. I'm like, what are you working on there? And she's like, oh, a little thing for this artist. And, like, she's in town, that artist. And I'm like, no, no, no, she's in New York. I'm like, well, how'd you meet her? She's like, oh, I've never met her. I just connected online where we're at. Cover art for that kind of thing.
Right.
That's cool. That's, like, really badass. And for all that time, we're, like, trying to tell people to get off their phones and stuff. They're actually developing skills and making connections, right?
Absolutely.
So a little intro. Morgan is a sales influencer and a leading voice around this, and he's got a. A successful podcast or a show. Maybe you call it Muffins with Morgan, which already. I like the name.
We have fun.
Yeah. So is it a morning show, and are there muffins involved?
So it is a morning show. There are muffins involved. It started during COVID on Saturday mornings, actually, and then now I do them on Friday now. But, yeah, there are muffins involved. I eat muffins while I answer questions. This is fun.
Yeah. You have a favorite.
So my favorite muffin is going to sound very, very generic, but. But it's. There's a one that's starting to creep up to maybe, number one, blueberry is my favorite, but number two is banana nut. And lately I've been like, I don't know, banana might be better than blueberry. So I might be changing, but we'll see. That's like one or two for me.
When. When our son was very, very Young, right? Like preschool age. Going to school was a challenge. He didn't like it at all. But we would work that transition out with a poppy seed muffin at the coffee shop up the street from school. So as long as we stopped there, it was good, chill down a little bit, had the muffin. He could be like, okay, I'm ready to go now.
Muffins do wonders, apparently. So there we go.
Make his peace with the inevitable. He still hates formal education and doesn't recommend it for others, and he's. He's done all right for himself. So tell us a little bit more about your background. I gave some facts and things like that. You've been in Forbes and Harvard Business Review and other publications outlets tell. Give a little more story flavor to that.
Yeah. So to give context, the first thing that I started off was as an sdr. So that's called a sales development representative. And for those of you who don't know what in the world that person even does, it's someone who cold calls, cold emails, LinkedIn, social selling to get meetings, and that's it. So we don't. We don't close any business. So it's not. It's not that exciting as I'm making this out to be, or probably not at all.
So door opener.
Yeah, that's it. Just opening doors, getting meetings scheduled. And as I went into that, I saw a huge opening on LinkedIn to create content. At the time, there wasn't anyone in my world of tech sales that was creating content as a rep or as a sales leader. The only people who were creating content were consultants. And so I took the opportunity about five to six months into the role to start creating content. And I started that on YouTube. So the channel was called the SDR Chronicles. I documented my journey on what to do and how you should go about it. The failures, the learning lessons, the whole entire thing. So I posted every single day for about six to seven months. My goal was to get to a hundred episodes, and I did that. And once I got to a hundred episodes, I started getting a transition period where I got promoted to an SDR manager. And before I left, I managed 13 reps. And that was an incredible experience. I learned a lot from that. My team, you know, consistently hit their numbers over 100%. So that was a good time. And as a rep, I did the same. And then I got. And then that really. Things kind of went really fast because then I became a sales trainer and I joined a company called JB Sales Owners called John Barrows. And he had trained Salesforce, LinkedIn, Google. So I was like, all right, that's probably. I would like to go learn how to do those things as well. So I did that for three and a half years and trained Snowflake, the highest growing tech tech startup of all time, Zoom, which y' all are familiar with if you've been on any web conferencing. I did end up training Salesforce, and those are the main companies that I trained, Slack, but now they're Salesforce as well. And so I learned a lot through that experience on not only how to create content, but how to create content while selling and bringing in business. And so I did that in my last org too, when I was in sdr. So now my whole company is focused on how do you amplify your brand narrative through organic content by doing it through employee advocacy and making your employees many influencers. So throughout the years, that's just my experience. That's where my context is going to come from. And that's how you know all those different accolades and things that happen. It just came through that hard work.
Interesting. So there's a lot of things like. And I personally think about this all the time. Let's start with the. Maybe some negative or bad things because I think about this. Or I get hit with this many times a day, which I think a lot of us do. Right now. There's this like, automated outreach, automated follow up.
Hey.
And then back again and again and again. Like, why aren't you answering me? And schedule time for a strategy session on my calendar. And I find these things lazy and annoying. I'll get things to people who will send me a mail. Have you thought about creating video? Like, have you looked at my profile? Have you thought about a podcast? I'm like, I'm listed as a podcast host. I have a popular podcast. Like, I have these. And I get these things. And then. And then I'll say, yeah, I already have that. And then they'll reply back to me more. Well, great. How could we help you? What's going well? Like, do a little homework.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. I mean, people don't want to do homework. Right. And so I guess we could go in a. In the negatives of. Of what's happening, at least with technology. Right. Is that it is. Enabled people to be lazy at scale. That when I say that's kind of terrifying. Like, enabled you to be lazy at scale.
That's the thing about that. What's the impact on your audience of your laziness? What's it, like to, to be encountered by someone lazy. It, it occurs to me like a waste of time, like annoyance, like, and, and such a missed opportunity. Like, you got my brain for like a half a second and then you wasted that opportunity with no connection, no relationship. Like, and I'm like, I feel disrespected and in.
As you should, because that's exactly how everyone else is also reacting to it as well. And, and, and let, let's talk about this. Cause I want to unpack this. Everybody listening. Because there always are the people that are like, wait, but I can move faster, I can send out more emails. Like, there's scale, but there's things that happen in the background that most people are missing. So number one is if, let's say you're doing emails and you're like, morgan, I built this campaign, I'm gonna send it out to thousands of people. I think it's really relevant, which in some cases, like, if it's relevant and you could do that, like, fair. But most of the time it's not. So every email that someone doesn't reply to you, you also have to take into consideration they might mark you as spam. So the more times you get marked as spam or get immediately deleted, it then lowers your deliverability, which means that the personalized messages that you actually are sending out are not going to the main inbox, it's going straight to spam, which leads you to actually wasting your resources and wasting your time because you're not getting in front of the inbox. You just, you're just wasting that outreach. So that's like number one thing to consider. Number two is if you do this on LinkedIn, people will do the connected pitch. Bill, I know you probably had a couple of those. You know, I've had a couple of those. And those don't help you as well because someone can either immediately disconnect from you or. Right, they're going to remember your face. And so if you try to reach out to someone else and do the same thing in the same company or a peer or colleague, they might remember that. So these things have long term repercussions that people don't think about. You're like, oh, I just sent my mess out here, it's going to be fine. No, it actually could lead to something even worse that you're not prepared for.
Yeah, I think that that like sloppy, like I just connect to you now, I'm immediately going to start pitching you stuff and I, and I'm throwing you like these very automated Things. It's one of the two things that is just such a turn off. And very often they're talking about things that I'm kind of interested in, like, oh, I'd love to find somebody who filled our workshops on a consistent basis. Great. If somebody said, you know, I looked at your workshops and here's what I saw, and, you know, I'd love to talk to you more. And I'm like, okay, you, I'm going to give, you know, maybe more than 50 minutes an hour plus two, because I could tell you care. You're actually thoughtfully pursuing me. Right? Like, developing a list is one thing, even a little bit of a touch. But. But at some point, really quickly, you've got to get personal.
You do, you do. And, and there's. And this is actually an important distinguishing factor when you're doing any type of selling or even when you're doing this on LinkedIn, it doesn't really matter where you're doing. It is. There's difference between personalization and then relevancy and then wrong personalization as well. So let's go with just personalization. So, for example, just like you said, if I were trying to get in front of you and talk to you about whatever I was looking to sell you, I would probably listen to one episode of your podcast at least, minimum, right? You should probably do more, but minimum, right? And I can at least get some context on like, okay, like, how does Bill interact with people? What. What are some things that are important to him? That is personalization. Because you're going to be able to say, listen to your podcast recently with this person. This thing stood out to me. Here's why it stood out to me. Call to action, super simple framework. And anyone can do that. And if you feel like, oh, that's a lot of time, listen to it on 2x speed. Do whatever you got to do. Right now there's the not personalization, which is saying, hey, I saw that you went to uga, which the. Sorry, what? Saw that you went to uga. Go dogs. And then you pivot to something that's not relevant to me. Then also, like, I care about that because we just won the state champion or not state national championship, but football. So like, I guess if you did that, it would be like, okay, maybe, but actually probably not, because I know you're probably not a fan. You're just doing that to do personalization and it doesn't link to what you're offering. So it's a fake personalization. And then there's relevancy which token fake.
Like immediate to something else. Right? Here's, here's the one that all the time they're like, hey, Bill, I love what you're doing. At scalingcoach.com and podcast-humanistic LLC, they put their like full legal name inside.
You know, it's bad.
Not going to be good?
No, it's going to be terrible. And so that's like the not personalization that's important because it happens on all social mediums and all communication methods when people are prospecting. This happens often. Relevancy is like, do you know about this profile? So, for example, if you got a profile of VPs of sales in series B to series D companies and they're in the tech space and they're really focused on these different priorities, you could preference that as a relevant piece. So you could email them about increasing revenue, which is like the standard of what they're looking to do. And then how does your service or product relate to increasing revenue? Now you could email a hundred VPs of sales about how you can help them increase their revenue. Not personalized, but it still is relevant to what they're doing. And you can maybe get some responses from there. So I think it's an important distinguishing factor between relevancy and personalization. The goal is to have relevancy and personalization at the same time, but they can be separate factors.
You know, the thing that immediately also comes up is that is people often want to talk to me about what they do, and I am much more interested in that first thing being, hey, are you struggling to grow your show? Hey, are you struggling to raise engagement? Hey, are you struggling to fill your programs? Oh, maybe I am. Like, oh, I would love something in that. Well, we do something that's really relevant. Do you want to hear more about it? You know, oh, that's an interesting, thoughtful, tailored pitch. And it's not too cheeseball, right?
It isn't. And you said something that's absolutely important because it's about conversations that, that convert. It's not. I think a lot of people are immediately going into how can I convert? It's how can I start a conversation with someone by asking really good questions that get them to stop and think and say, that's a good question. I should probably talk to this person. Because the questions that you ask are related to your understanding of the topic and that leads to person. That person being this person actually could talk to me about X thing.
Yeah. I think the other thing is, is it's, it's pointed versus open ended. So somebody sends me a note that what are you working on this year? I'm like, yeah, no, no. But if they say, hey, I wonder if you're working on this or. It seems like people in your situation are often interested in this. Is this true for you? There's a. It's a little more specific. It's not just, hey, I'm going to talk to you about everything and you know, I want to develop a relationship with you.
Why?
Like, you live on the other side of the world. What are you doing? Why? I. It's just it. That. And actually funnels, right? I can smell a funnel a mile away. Click here, up level there, Register there. Now I'm going to upsell you. Now I'm going to send you an email sequence. Like, it's just so. I mean, maybe it worked a few years ago, but it feels so overplayed right now. These overly scripted kinds of things.
Absolutely. Because you can read through it. Right? And you know that. All right. I know exactly what's going to happen. Where's the, yeah, where's the, where's the relevancy? Where's the personality in it as well? Right. Those are important.
Yeah. Download to get my white paper, my ebook, my, like, whatever. And then. Okay, now sign up for my webinar.
Okay.
But if you want to get vip, like you could do that. Right? You know how you got some stories to share, you were creating content and talk about the outreach that warm up SDR place and the content. What were you doing there? How did that go? What worked? What didn't work?
So one of the, one of the most important things I believe is to document and showcase what you're doing. So one of the, one of the people that did that extremely well and someone I look up to is the Rock. So if you look at the Rocks, like entire history, especially when it comes to the wwe, one could argue that he was not the best wrestler. However, he was the best talent in wwe, but I don't think he was the best. Like, no one could be like, oh, he was the best wrestler. No, like, but he was best talent. Then he also transitioned that and did that with acting. He's, I think the number one paid actor, I think in the world, last time I checked, could have changed. But the thing is, I don't think he's the best actor at all. Right. You see, like this the best actor. But he built a really good brand by showcasing his work and also documenting his journey. So I'll bring it full circle when I Started off as an sdr. I wasn't the best sdr. Three months in, I had missed quota every single month. So I was on the verge of getting fired. So, so, so everything I just told you like that I do today, like, I almost got fired. So I remember going to my VP of sales and being like, I don't really know, like if this is for me and I think that I should just move on and do something different. And I remember her asking me a question that was so important. She was like, are you giving this role a hundred percent? And I remember being like, no. Like I just be transparent. Like, I wasn't, I was giving like maybe 70, right? I wasn't really giving it my all. And so I had to really think about that question and my answer. And I was like, what if I gave this a hundred percent, really documented this journey, showcased people was going on and just made this my life for the next three to four months. And I think a lot of people just, they'll stop something but haven't really asked themselves, are they giving 100%? And that doesn't mean 100% like to burn out. I just mean like, are you actually committed to what you're doing or are you just like going through the motions? And I was. And so once I started doing that, that's when the content and that's when my role got better because I just was able to show up more as myself. I was able to be like, hey, this is what I'm doing. Here's the cold calls that are working, here's the emails that are getting conversions. Here's like what I'm doing on social, here's how I'm creating the content. And that led to a genuine connection with my audience because I wasn't trying to tell them something that I, that I was not. I wasn't saying, hey, I built this million dollar sales team. Like I had done none of those things. I was just like, hey, I'm in this role day to day. I show up and make 100, 120 cold calls a day. I send out a lot of emails and it's very difficult. And I schedule meetings, not that crazy, but and found out that by sharing that it was crazy to other people because no one else was doing it. So it allowed me to really stand out and have a completely differentiated factor. But I remember those times a lot because I always ask myself in everything I do, am I really giving this 100%? Because if I, if I'm not, that means that I'm the One who has to step it up.
Yeah. You know, I. I can think of a few people that have been on different sides of that. And the thing that I most hear is, is like, our. Our first value, like our. Of our company core values is courageous authenticity. And the. You're just, like, sharing, like, you're. You're getting real with people. Like, here's what I'm doing. Here's what's happening. And you're not, like, pretending to be successful. It's not the faux flex, and you're just like, you know, here's what I'm doing. This part's kind of hard, and this is kind of cool. And, um. And I think that that is. That there's real power in that because we're so used to being presented these polished images and perfect things and. And, you know, even though courageous authenticity is one of my values, this show is inherently that also. The other side, like, this angle is very flattering for me. Right?
Like, yeah, yeah. Like, here we go.
Really work. This microphone makes my voice sound great. Great. You know, the camera and the lighting here are groovy. Like, I am putting my best face forward in this thing, but there's also then a willingness to be real, to speak plainly, not to be all polished up and that kind of thing. So you are going to put it forward a little bit, you know, every now and then, but a little bit of, like, behind the scenes, a little bit of reality, a little bit of frank and open and, like, not totally polished is just so powerful. Refreshing, right?
It is. And something that you mentioned about being, like, polished in terms of, like, there's.
My bad camera angle. I don't like that one so much.
And. And the thing is, if you look at. Back at my first videos, I did not have any of that. It was literally like MacBook old. I mean, like a MacBook old pro camera was really bad. I had no mic. Lighting was terrible. Looking back at those videos, I was like. I was like, oh, my gosh, let's look at the other day. I was like, what were we doing? And then also as well, it was like just. The way that I spoke too, was just like, one take. I just need to get it out there now. It's like I formulate everything now because it's just the way that I've done it. I think it's important, though, what this is something I'll also share as well. When you're looking to create content or looking to sell or anything, go look at the beginning of someone's journey. So Eric Thomas, I followed him a lot. Gary Vaynerchuk, Some of you probably know who that is. And just really anyone, right? You could go back and watch their first videos, and you'll laugh and be like, it's okay, it's okay. They did not start off good. Like, those videos are not. They're not that great. And so if you feel like you're intimidated or feel like, overwhelmed, always go look at someone's first thing that they did, and it will inspire you to go do what you need to go do.
Yeah, you know, I think about that. My first show was with Bob Bloom, and, you know, Bob Loom's passed on, but, like, the. The mic, the connection, the background, the preparation, the format of the show, I had thought about it and prepared for all kinds of things. But the difference between then and now is. Is really significant. There's a. There's a very noticeable difference. And some of the shows, between those early shows, I'm like, oh, that's a little cringy, you know, and you work on it. Over time, you level up, you get better at things, but it doesn't mean, like. Like, you're never done right? You're never so perfect, so slick. A little bit of that being open to learn and level up at any time makes a difference. And I think it. It so builds the connection and credibility when we can see that it gives us permission to be real. So. Seems like it, anyway.
It does. So.
Talk about your content today. What do you put out now? Or how does that go? What's the show like? How has that evolved?
So the content today is the iteration and the evolution of who I am as a person, and also the content that I've created. What I've realized over time is documentation is always important. Just like you mentioned, I had a mentor who told me that the best thing that you can always remember is that you've never arrived. And I think that's really hard for people to understand because then it's like, all right, well, if I go on the. Let's use an example. If I go on, like, Oprah, I know she's not around and does much stuff anymore, but, like, if I go on Oprah, I've made it, right? Or, like, if they put me on 30 under 30 or 40 under 40, I'm. I've made it. Or, like, if I'm on the keynote of this conference, I made it. And that's where the evolution of yourself and the growth that you should be going through stops. Because you think that you've Accomplished it. So inherently as a human, you're like, oh, I'm good. And that's actually one of the most saddening and disappointing things that can happen is when you decide to just stop growing. And so now my content is all around the evolution of myself. Even the way that I do the live show. I have all different types of frameworks. I get the prep call, I say, okay, here are the questions we're going through. Here's how I include the audience. I'm very prescriptive on. When I do breaks, I engage with the audience more. I'm acting more as that host than just like, hey, we're doing content with videos. I make sure that it's very quality and it's actually more human based. So up until this point, I've been doing all like sales content. And now I've shifted because of like how I'm operating and how my business works around just being more of Morgan, which is what people wanted to hear. And that also shift leads into like how you can do content. Here's like a way of thinking about it. More authority on like, here are my actual thoughts rather than tactics. I had to switch from just black and white tactics to being more like, hey, this is what I believe is going on and this is where I think these are going. And that that evolution of my content truly had to shift and I had to be more open, which I found that people connected with more.
You know, it's interesting. Here's what I hear in that. The first thing is that in the beginning you have to deliver really pointed, clear, focused content. But as you grow, your credibility in your relationship increases. And then as much people are attracted to connecting to you. You are a partner, you are someone in their life who you have relationship with, whether you know each other directly or not. Like, you in their ear, on their screen are somebody that they draw value from. And in that they need a little humanity, a little connection as well. They want to see you and you're. That kind of thing. It. It's broader than the core message.
It is. That's.
Yeah, it, it.
I mean, because if you think of most people, well, most people start with just like a topic or a niche. So I just started off with like sales development prospect. That was it. And then, and then overall you expand because you're, you're expanding into people wanting to be like, what do they actually want to hear from you? Like, as the person, right? They get, they're more connected because you, they got value from this topic now. It's like you could talk about a lot of things, but it's also important, like when you talk about those, a lot of those things, what is actually relevant to the people that want to follow that journey so that as they go on their journey, how can they take what you're dropping as well? And I think about the content is an evolution journey of yourself and you're sharing how you've evolved through that time and how you're continuously evolving. So others behind you can also evolve as well. But that then expands past the original topic that you talked about. Unless that's just your thing and you talk about that all the time. But most people, inevitably they do expand. You could look at that from anything, right? Like you look at Amazon, right? They started as books and they've clearly expanded, right? Buying Whole Foods, all the different things, right. You look at Apple, right? They were just like, we're just going to focus on like this piece of a computer, right? And they've obviously expanded. You look at Disney, Disney. It started off as like a concept with a cartoon, black and white. It's obviously expanded into a big thing. So I think that's the biggest thing as well is that when you create content and when you're doing all these things I'm talking about, you're creating a universe, and a universe, essentially the only way you can create it is you have to expand.
I think. Yeah, I get that. So let me ask you something personal that I think about all the time. And I, I know that in our workshops, our live events, even our webinars, real time, same time kinds of things in person or, or online, there's a lot of interaction and a lot of connection. But in our show that tends to be asynchronous and the listeners and viewers are not. Generally when we're recording it, I feel like the engagement is very, very low relative to the numbers, Right. I know how many downloads and listeners and viewers and that kind of thing we get. You can tally that up across the sources, but so the numbers are good and solid, but I feel like I have no idea what people get, what they like, what they don't like. Do you have any thoughts about that or any stories to share on that?
Stories to share on? Like how to get people's feedback?
Yeah, like how the, how you increase the engagement, the interaction, that kind of thing. What works? I and I, you know, it could be people are listening on their run or on their drive or that kind of thing. And so there. It's just not in the time when they're going to do that. But I, I always feel like, oh, I want to connect more with people. And I don't complain about the numbers, but I'd love more interaction. Right.
So let's, let's see it from, like, two different perspectives, because the podcast and then on social are two different ways of doing it. But I'll speak on how I've done both. So when I first started out on LinkedIn, you know, I was getting like four or five likes. Like, we're not. We're not doing well here, right? This is, like, not fun in the beginning. Like, it's just not. So instead of being like, this is terrible, I'm just going to log out. I thought of this idea just to be like, what if I just, like, talk to each person? So every single time that I have a like, for like six months, I responded to every single like. So I would go and message them and say, hey, like, Bill, thanks for the, like, what did you like about this content? And what else could I be sharing? And so people would be like, oh, yeah, like, really like the content. Here's why. Here's what you want to share. Now here. Here's where most people will fall off.
And was that private communication or was that private?
So I'm dming. I'm dming every single person. So. And it's five people, so it's like not that many. Right. It's super simple to do. So as long as it's not like your. Your brother and your mom and your dad, like, you know, it's a little bit different. But, like, these are people that are not that they're outside the family.
My brother tells me what he thinks all the time, and it's not very helpful. It's amusing. Very amusing, but not.
Not what you're looking for. So what I did is every single time someone would say, I want this answered, or I have a question, like, the next couple days or the next week, I would create a post to answer that question, and then I would send them the post and say, hey, thanks so much for the question. Here's the post that I just. Here's the answer to what you just asked me. And they were like, wait, what? And so that led into them being like, I'm going to share this with my team, right? So now they shared it with their team, and now I have new people that come and support. So over time, that just created a amplification effect. At this point in time, I have zero time to do that. But in the beginning, that is one of the best Ways to build on a platform because you have the time to do it. Ask them what do they like about it so you can get feedback on what's working well. So keep doing it. And then get new topic ideas all the time. People always ask, how do you have, how do you have so much topic ideas? Because of the amount of, you know, DMs, I would get around certain things. I'm able to answer a lot of different questions, right. And also on a podcast, a little bit more difficult, right? Because it's sometimes you don't know who those downloads are. But that's why I always like doing in the beginning. When I've done my shows or my podcasts, I'd ask a question at the beginning. So I'd be like, hey, everybody, thanks for tuning Back in to 104 podcast SDR CHR Chronicles. Muffin Morgan. I've done all these different productions. Send me a note on LinkedIn or email, whatever you prefer, and tell me what is your favorite episode so far. You could do that or you could be like, hey, I'm just having some fun today. What's your favorite piece of candy? And somebody like, favorite piece of candy. But it gets people to respond to you because you just want to know who's listening, right? And so now, by me asking these questions right at the beginning, I'm not asking for them to download anything. I'm not asking for like a masterclass upsell. I'm going to ask you to what's your favorite piece of candy? Like, what do you actually like to do? What's your hobby? Where's someone you're going to vacation to that you're excited about? I need to understand who's out there. So I had people who messaged me, and now I know, okay, you're listening to the podcast, you're listening to my content. That's amazing. Right now I'm going to ask you, what do you like about it? How can I get better? So that's the way that you can get that feedback in real time by just doing these little things.
That'S actually really useful. And I, what I noticed is the place where I encountered people that was always surprising would be at public events. So I'd be at a conference, then people come up, they'd be like, hey, Bill, I want to say hi. We listen to your show all the time, you know, and that was really, that was useful and interesting to have that, that kind of feedback. But I'd like it to be expanded. I like it to be broader and More engaged. I'd love to see more feedback in the channel. I've thought about going to some kind of set time, live kind of thing where people know they could call in or that kind of thing. I don't know if in my work people are going to call in and share their business challenges in front of other people. I think very often they want that a little bit more private.
Of course.
Of course. Yeah. When you saw yourself going through it, what did you notice that you were personally good at and not good at? What did you feel like were your strengths in the beginning in both creating content and doing the selling and outreach? What part did you discover you loved that you gave your 100% to?
Yeah. So I laugh because this exercise sucks. This is like, not the fun part, right. To figure out, what am I not good at? I mean, knowing what you're good at, that's fun, but not good at, not fun. So when I, when I, you know. Yeah, go ahead.
As liberating, like the not good at. Right. But it's not a conversation that you can do easily early in your career.
Right.
Like asking people early in the career what they're not good at. They won't. They. And they may not even recognize it yet, but asking what they're especially good at is a little bit easier place to do.
And, and so how do you define that? So the, the first part I want to talk about is how can you discover that without having to go through excruciating pain of figuring that out yourself? So take a, I don't know, iPhone, notes, notebook, whiteboard, I don't care what you do. And write down in the next, let's say two weeks, next month, however long it takes you, what when you do it sparks your energy. Like, when you're in it, you're like, this is incredible. Like, I'm good at this. It's second nature. Then write down the things that drain your energy. Like, you do it and you're like, this absolutely sucks. Now there are some things that you have to do that like, you just have to do. And, like, that's a part of it. Right. I don't think anyone gets fired up to brush their teeth in the morning. Right. But you probably should do that.
But, like, I know they're toothbrushing very passionately.
They're in it. They're flossing. Hey, all you. Right? But you got to think about what drains you. Right? And so what, what I realized is that. Let's talk about, like, what I'm not good at. So one Is I'm not good at video editing. So in the beginning, I used to. I used to do all my editing, but I have no. My attention, which is probably number two. It is number two, my attention to detail. I'm not a. I'm not good at it. I also don't have a whole lot of patience, and I'm not that meticulous to, like, do it extremely well. I can do it. You can see my past videos. Like, I've done it, but it's not good. So video editing, I realized this is, like, not my lane when it comes to content creation. I could do the actual video, but the editing, no way. Two is, like, attention to detail. So that has to do anything with. Around, like, reading. Like, doing or reading contracts, right? Or, hey, I have to write this prescriptive proposal. I just have to read it over and over and over and over again because my attention to detail is not as good as others. So I realized that was a huge gap that I had there across the board. And I was like, all right, cool. That's the gap that I have. Another. Another gap that I have is. I guess it could be a strength in some eyes, but, like, it is a gap is I will move way too quickly and not, like, operationalize it the way that I need to. So more of an operations thing. So, like, in my head, I had the vision I could tell you what to do, but then to systemize that, operationalize that, that is a weakness. Having someone who can do that is always really helpful. So I found that I'm not good at that spot at all. And that leads to huge, like, obstacles. Four is like, I'm not the best writer. So, like, I can. I can write, right? But I'm not, like, gonna sit there and, like, be the best copywriter, writer, persuasive, writing all those different things. That is not me. And then anything related to design. So if you're like, hey, do you need me to, like, write a logo? Do a logo? Like, no way. I could tell you if something looks good, right? I'm like, that looks good. But I can't, like, draw it, conceptualize it from, like, beginning to end. Like, absolutely not. And then when I think of, like, sales, I was not good at negotiating because I don't like to be. I don't. I don't like to be, like, direct with people sometimes. And also, I don't like to be pushy. I don't like confrontation. I've gotten better over that over the past couple years. So I'd say I'M like, I'm definitely like good at it. Probably above average, but I'm not like the phenomenal negotiator. Like, that's not what you're going to bring me in for. But that is a, that is definitely something I'm not the best at on that realm. And then also when it comes to the sales part, I struggled with getting to power and access. So I'm able to talk like really good with like the directors, managers get everyone on board. I get to the executives get blown away. Like, I was really not good at it for a while and then I've gotten good at it. So that's that piece. So again, I, I know very well what I am not good at across the board. Emails. Terrible at emails. Right. It's just these things that I just know now. What, what am I, what are the strengths? What am I good at? Number one is, is just literally hosting or presenting something. So if you tell me, hey, we need like five panels. We need you to host. Like, I could do that. Like, that is. That is my lane. Anything number two related to video. So if it's like, hey, we need you to get in front of a video and deliver something, you have, we have a thing that we need you to do. Like, I can deliver on video camera presence. Very strong in that three would lead. These are all the same, right? Public speaking. If I'm asked to do a keynote or a talk, like, I'm going to be able to do that very well due to stage presence. These are things I've also trained on as well. Four is understanding how to get meetings, like demand generation, video prospecting, social selling. I could do those very well. And then also as well, just like setting a vision, I'm able to conceptualize that and connect the dots for that. Like, here's the vision that you need to be focusing on. And then also as well, what I'm really good at is understanding, like looking at a piece of content from a personal brand, a company, and telling you how to make it more creative to get in front of the audience. So I could be like, all right, here are the things you need to do. Piece it this way. Do this. This is our idea. I'm able to do that very, very quickly without too much prep. And so the last thing that I'll say is, because there's a lot of things here is how do I get to these answers quickly? I gave you an exercise to do, but I'll tell you a story as well. So. And I done this in college. I did it right when I started at my new company as an sdr, and I did it recently, about eight months ago. This is very terrifying to do, but. But. But it is very helpful. So I go to everyone that's close to my life and I ask them three questions. So it's one, what am I absolutely amazing at? Two is what. What do I do that annoys you? Or. Or something that just like, you're like, don't understand why I'm not good at it. And then three, what is something unique about me that you've realized? And these are people I've known for a while over the years that truly stands out. And then the last piece I always tell people is like, you have to give me real answers. You can't, like, lie. Right? You can't. And I'm not gonna know. So you need to tell me, like, real answers. I need to know these answers. And that exercise is incredibly eye opening and very helpful.
Well, I think those are fantastic questions and they're very related to the questions that we have our clients take to their customers to figure out what their brand promises ought to be and what's differentiating about them, because they really get into that. Like, you want to hear the annoying thing. You want to hear the differences, not just, oh, I'm good at these things. And people are. They know how to say polite things to you about, like, about that kind of thing. But it's really useful to hear the fullness of it. Not that you and I think the mistake is then to go, like, shore up the annoying thing. Maybe not. Maybe that annoying thing is something that you leave in place and you acknowledge. Yeah, I'm not that. But we do these other things really well. You know, that's a powerful. That's a powerful kind of thing. I think it is. Yeah. Know who you are. Don't try to erase all the warts. Be aware of them. I talk to people all the time. I'm like, you know, there are coaches that really focus on accountability and they write down what you say and they make sure you did what you were going to do. And I'm not going to be that kind of coach for you. It's not an aspect of. I'm very familiar with it. I know it's powerful and useful. If that's what you need, I can recommend somebody else. Right. Like, but if you want somebody to figure out where you get stopped and help you see either you as an individual leader or your company, like, I'm all about that. If you want somebody to help you Find your flow and see how things balance together. I'm all about that but. And I'm going to teach you how to relate to your numbers. But I'm not a CPA background. Like we're not going to go through your numbers in the way that they would like, like a financial engineer. And I'm not going to do that. I'm going to talk about big picture stuff and the team and your leadership and yeah, I think it's super powerful. Right. And I hear a couple things come through. One is you have an ability to like project, entertain, communicate like that. Whether it's video, audio, like that, that's the speaking stage, camera. But then the other side that I also sense just from our interaction both here and before is that human connection, developing the dialogue, talking to a person, responding to the situation, not just looking for openings to blast your ever present message. Oh, there's an opening. I'll share that little canned bit with you. And I know people like that who are masterful at just one canned bit after another, but they're weak on the dialogue side of things.
The. Oh yeah, I, I, I have a story on this one. So this is this, this, so this will make you laugh and this might help a lot of people that went, maybe you have gone through this as well.
Sorry, that story, couple shout outs. Because it'll be a good story but we're getting at our time. Shout out to my friend and mentor, creator of the whole Scaling up framework, the Rockefeller habits that came before it, Vern Harnish. Thank you Vernon, for creating starting this mess that that feeds so much of us. And then to Wanda Mitchell, our producer, my assistant who keeps our clients ready and keeps me honest on a daily basis. And then the folks at Podfly Productions who get our show out the door, our show notes and all that kind of thing every week. So a couple shout outs there and then our website, scalingcoach.com if you need us and if you want to drop, we've been talking about giving feedback, send me a note, tell me what's weird or annoying about us. That's groovy with me. Info@scalingcoach.com is a good email for us or if we can connect you with some resource in your area or whatever that would help you scale. So all that and more. All that. So well, why don't we share your story and then I'll give your link and all that talk.
We'll be good to go, people. Yeah, perfect. So this was right at the time when I, when I we go Back when I told you about going to sales training, I'm about a year and a half, two years of sales training. I have my groove. I'm doing really well, traveling all over the place. Like, out of all the people that I know, friend group, graduating, I feel like I'm on top of the world. I'm just gonna be super transparent with y'. All. So, like, I thought I. Like, I had all the answers at this point, like, subconsciously. So someone's talking to me. I'm like, yeah, like, here's the answer, right? And so my best friend pulled me aside one day, and he's like, why are you always in space mode? I was like, what are you talking about? He's like. He's like, when you. When you talk to people, you're not, like, talking with them. You're just, like, talking at them. You're just. It's almost like you're, like, in, like, a motivational talk with them, and you don't really care what they're saying. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, multiple people are giving this feedback. And I was like, wait, what? Like. And I just. I just, like, didn't realize that, like. And I'm saying that now, looking back on it, I definitely was doing that.
An intuitive friend who will speak that to you.
That's my guy. That's my guy. So. And I gave my friend. I always told my friends they can give me real transparent feedback at any point in time if you're. If we're close, right? And so I remember being like, man, so, like, how do I fix that? He's like, well, moving forward, just don't say anything. He's like, listen to what people are saying and just respond to them and ask questions about them. I was like, all right. So. So, like, for the next six to eight months, that's just what I did. I would never mention what I did. And if I did, it was like, two sentences. I'd be like, yeah, I'm a sales trainer. I travel. But like, yeah, let's go back to you. And I would just flip it back. And so I started seeing the difference. People were like, oh, that was, like, one of the best conversations I've ever had. Or people were like, wow, no one ever asked me these questions before. I was like, they were like, wow, that was, like, a really thoughtful question you had. I was like, I'd never gotten this feedback right, because I was always just talking. And so that was the. One of the biggest shifts, I believe, in my entire life, which allowed me to then be like every single conversation I have, I genuinely just try to understand where is this person coming from? How can I get to understand them more? How can I get. How can I start talking about things that they talk that they want to talk about? And yeah, if it leads into stuff I want to talk about, that's great. But ever since I changed my mindset on that, I've been able to develop and build better relationships where before I wasn't able to really do that.
Yeah, you know, it's funny, I hear that as the. I think it's especially powerful and wise. It's the distinction between listening for some, an opening to say something that's on your mind versus actually being in communication, creating the communication in the moment, moment by moment with the other person in a kind of a conversational dance versus I'm listening for openings to deliver my canned messages that I think are really awesome.
Yep. Yeah, exactly. That's where I was at.
Oh, that's some. Some wisdom dropped on us. Hey, if you want to find out more about Morgan, you can find him on LinkedIn, of course, but go to ampcreative IO ampcreative IO it's right there on the screen. We'll put it in the show notes as well. It's not too hard. You could spell it out. IO amp Creative is the is the URL. So thanks so much for coming on. It was great. Great follow up. I'm so glad that we had you on the show. It's really helpful conversation. If you dug it, please share it. Pass along with somebody else who could benefit from it as well. That helps them, your friends, the people you really care about a whole lot. Thanks again everyone for watching, for listening. We'll talk to you again next time. Keep scaling.
