Transforming Your Company Culture with Pam Nemec

Digging it. Digging it.

I don't know about you. I need the music, like every day. Start my day off a little music. Music in the shower, dancing.

Yes.

Takes a minute to kind of helps me get started with so many things.

Yeah. Kind of lifts the spirit, gets you in the mood for the day.

Company culture. So culture, we know culture is important. I don't know, maybe you love it, maybe you hate it, maybe you're not sure what to do about it. We're going to talk to one guest about building strong company culture, how that affects the brand and so on. All that more coming up. But first, a little more music from my head, everybody. Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Scaling Up Business podcast, come to you every week with a guest, a topic, a conversation about growing, scaling your company. How do you go from a handful of people, maybe a couple dozen, maybe four or five, maybe 50, to thousands and still have the company? So whether you go to hundreds or thousands, like in growing your business and having a bigger impact in the world, how do you create a company that you're still proud of, that you still love, that doesn't kill you in the process or harsher buzz? Hey, you'll find all our 560 shows and more at scalingcoach.com along with our monthly workshops and scaling up, our coaching programs, workshops, all that kind of stuff@scalingcoach.com all right, listen, I'm joined now by Pam Nemec in Texas, halfway between.

Austin, Antonio and Austin.

Yeah. And she's, she loves the world of culture, hr, brand, all that, and kind of build a career. In particular, a huge amount of experience at a company known as Whataburger, which, you know, depending on if you're from Texas, you know exactly what we're talking about. But if you're not, it's very popular, not just in Texas, but around just not so much in California where I am. Anyway, Pam, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Bill. Good to be here. Appreciate the invitation.

Yeah. So Pam continued and now does work in culture and branding and stuff like that with firms, you know, post Whataburger. And so we're going to talk to you about what you learned and the kind of work you do and stories you have to share. As always, we love your story. So let's start with your story first of all, like, how do you get that start? How do you end up with the family helping to grow the company like that?

Yeah. You know, it's funny because I, you know, like, you probably grew up on In N out. I Grew up on Whataburger. In fact, I have a picture from my high school graduation class. We hung out at the Whataburger in Portland, Texas, where I was, was raised, which is a tiny little town right outside of Corpus Christ. We. We hung out at the Whataburger so much that for our senior picture, we pulled up all of our old cars and trucks and put our entire senior class in front of the Whataburger. So it was a. A brand that I loved, that I grew up on and that I knew. And so it was very, I guess, serendipitous that years later, when I was about 32 years old, I ended up working for the company and. And got a job there as a marketing manager. And I was tickled to death because I had. I knew the brand, I loved it, and I was raised on it. And so I started there in 2001, and I left in at the end of 2021. And I was. Like I said, I started as a marketing manager. I ended up leaving as the senior vice president of HR, brand communications and culture. But for 18 years of that time.

Wait, senior vice president of HR, brand communications and Culture?

Yeah, yeah, all three things. Yeah, it was interesting. So for. For 18 years, I was largely in charge of all the communications for the company, so both employee and customer. And so it was a blend in a way of like, marketing and communication. And how do you. How do you take your culture and really share it with inside your organization? But then learning how to share it outside the organization was really the fun part. And then I guess it was about. Well, it was right before the sale of the company, and I was summoned to a meeting at a local Whataburger, and I was asked if I would be interested in taking on hr, to which I replied, really? You want me to do hr? And they said yes, because you care a lot about people and we think you're the right person. And so the lady who had been there for years was awesome at her job, had decided to move on with the family onto what they were doing. And so I stepped in and took on HR and continued to run all the communication for the company as well as hr. So that was just an interesting, whole interesting experience doing recruiting and training and, you know, all of the normal hr, you know, roles that you play. So it was. It was interesting. I learned a lot. And like I said, In 2021, it was about two years after the sale of the company, I decided to move on and thought, you know, I've had a lot of experience not just with Whataburger, but with the organizations that I worked with before Whataburger. And, you know, maybe I can help some other people create cultures that really connect with their employees, but also connect with their customer. Because I found that when you do that, it really starts to drive performance in a way that is nothing else can. I just don't think anything else can do it other than a really connected culture that is informed and equipped to do their jobs well and really passionate about what they do. So that's my mission now, is to help other CEOs figure out that. How to do that, how to make that work.

You know, as you start sharing your story in the beginning, I think about, you're like, oh, maybe loving. Actually, I didn't grow up within an out burger. Even though I'm originally from California. I grew up, I lived a lot of different places. And the two brands for me and what stands out are Jack in the Box, right. And which actually was a terrible brand. But as a kid, the drive through with the clown was like, awesome. Like, oh, we're going, there's clown and I'm going to get a burger in a minute, you know, or whatever we got.

Yeah.

And so that was the first one. The second one was really about availability, although it had every opportunity to screw it up. But it was A and W root beer. Right. So A and W brands had their store, not just the root beer, but then the restaurants. And that was the one that was where we lived. And it was really great because they had like a. Like a mini float. Float was like free for kids there.

Yeah, I remember these.

So we take my little brother and who was at the right age and height, and it would be like, oh, Tom needs one. And so give Tom this mini float. And then Tom go get another one because we need more of those mini floats around here.

Right.

And I mean, it's total, like, kid scam. But they sort of took it in stride. And of course we bought a burger every now and then. We brought our family to it and it was literally walking distance from our house at one point. And so, like, you know, there's a strong affinity, there's a fond kind of thing. And I still feel good about. You don't see them that much anymore, but I still like it and feel good about the brand. But I relate to the brand like a person, like an entity, like a personality. And it's positive in my mind now they had every opportunity, like, if they were harsh to us or whatever, if we, like, we hated on Them we might have egged the shop or something like that, but.

Yeah, I hear you. Well, we got kicked out probably a few times with the what Burger? For making too much noise, you know, after going to a dance or coming back for a. You know, the company's 24 7, so we would come back in from a dance that was way too far away from our homes. Our parents probably hated us doing that. But we would drive out to these. These dances, and then we would come home. The water burger would still be open. So then we would all gather again after midnight and have breakfast. Breakfast tacos or what they call taquitos. And, you know, it's like, what you're saying, though, that's. What. That's. To me, the magic that brands really should be trying to create is. What is that nostalgia? What is that memory for people that makes people go, man, I remember that. You know, I remember that brand was there when, you know, it was part of a memory, when. And I think when you can tap into that as a. As a company, and then you can really amplify it through communication and share it out. It just. It makes people want to be part of your brand. It makes people want to go, what is it about that, you know, you talked about in and out? In and out is the same way. It's like, what is it? Why does in and out get so much press? Why does whataburger get so much press? Why does. Why do these. These brands that are just special, you know, what do they do differently? And I think. I think that's the brands that really tend to. To really flourish is the people who have figured it out, who have. Are doing things differently, who are not afraid to show that they care and connect at a deeper level with customers and with employees. Right. I think those that are too focused on money, growth, you know, all the things can lose sight of that. And in reality, those are the things that will grow you and sustain you and scale you in the long term. So that's what I learned, and that's what I loved about my role when I was with Whataburger and my role now in helping other brands, you know, bring that to life.

Talk to us. Tell us about the founding family of Whataburger, what they were trying to accomplish, how that culture then went, like, from inside to outside the company. Because I think this, like, we think of culture as being inside more, and we think of brand being outside. Talk about what the. What the family were like and what they promoted and, like, how that. How that felt.

Yeah. I think, you know, I was really fortunate. Like I said, For 18 years it was a family owned operation and I was close to, I got to work with the family. I met the, the matriarch of the family before she passed away. And what I, what I was just, I loved about, especially Tom, who was in the comp, in the office every day. They were so humble and kind and caring and, and so it was, it was just like you were getting to represent a, a company and a family that you believed in. And so that alone is, gives purpose to the work. Right. Were they of course trying to stay profitable and make money? Sure, because every company has to do that, but they also really cared. I used to tell people all the time, I was like, I have never at the time, 15 years, 16 years, I would say this all the time, been asked to do something that I didn't want to do, didn't agree with. I don't know that many people who have been with the company as long as I had been can say that, you know, and we would have conversations sometimes where, and I would talk a lot with the CEO because he was my supervisor or my boss and he would offer like, hey, what if we did this and what if we did that? What was great about him speaking, speaking to all the CEOs out there? The thing I loved most about working with the CEO that I got to work with for those years was he listened. You know, he didn't just demand that I do it the way he said it, because maybe he had an idea and it wasn't a bad idea, but maybe, maybe through conversation we could get to a better place. And he was always willing to have that conversation. And I think that is something that is such a valuable asset to have as a CEO to not be so ego driven that you can't hear what somebody else might be saying. Right. And so there was times where we would have like a difficult thing we would need to say to the company or to the people or customers or whatever. And we would really, you know, think about it, wring our hands over it and make sure that what we said was as respectful as it can be. And I could push back and he could push back with me and we would get to the right answer. And that to me was, is a very valuable, I guess, partnership to have with the person who's in running your communication for your company. You have to have somebody there that's really going to push back and not just say, yeah, sure, whatever you say, boss.

You know, are there any, are there any of those, like, difficult conversations that you can recall where you had to deal with something and how you went through that.

Oh, boy, there's probably a lot. There was. There was one that I remember that was we. In fact, you joked about it earlier. It was about. There was a time where people were wanting to bring their guns open carry into our restaurants, Texas. And we were just like, okay, this was when school shootings were happening, so on and so forth. And we just were like, look, in our customer base was all, you know, not all for it, but there were people out there that would have definitely said yes, you know, protect. Protect our rights and so on. So it was a very difficult thing to navigate based on our customer base. However, we sat down and we really talked about it and we said, look, you know, I would give him my perspective, say, look, as a mom of two children, if somebody comes walking into any restaurant with a gun that I can see, I'm hitting the deck and heading for the door. Right. I'm not comfortable with that. Right. And he would say, well, yes. And we also have to think about this other side that this. Whatever. So long and long story short, we talked it over and he ended up writing a letter that we put out in our digital news newsroom for people to read. And some people loved it and some people didn't, but we did not allow it. We did allow, you know, concealed carry because that's legal, and it was, you know, fine. But we did not allow that open carry because what, What? At the time, people were literally walking in with, you know, guns over their shoulders and scaring customers.

Yeah, yeah. It's alarming.

Yeah, it was a little much, in my opinion. Right. I don't work for Whataburger anymore. This was my opinion at the time. I was just like, that's a little much. And so we. But we. The point of it is that that conversation we knew was probably going to be a touchy when we put it out there, but we. We did what we. What we really believed and we said it as in the most respectful way we could.

Right.

And I liked that. You know, I always tell people, and when you are dealing with anything, any circumstance, you need to find reasonable because there's always going to be some extreme side, left or right. And my deal is, look, I may have a very strong opinion myself, but I've got to find the middle where is reasonable in this. And I think that that is a lost art sometimes these days. And I think that's another thing that a good, strong communication person can help a CEO do, because CEOs will get, you know, pulled in 90 directions. Well, you need to say it this way. Well, I believe this, and you should do that, and da, da, da, da, whatever. And you need somebody who understands that you've got to find reasonable, you know, so. And I used to tell. I used to tell my boss, Preston, I said, look, we are never, never going to make everyone happy. It's not possible. So what we have to do is to be who we are, understand who we are at our core and our values, and find a reasonable way to deliver the message. But don't change who you are to just fit all the narratives, because you will chase your tail for the rest of your life trying to do that. You need to know who you are and you need to represent it in a way that feels respectful to everybody and go from there.

Well, I, you know, I. It's interesting about the balance, right? Like, okay, so they're going to be second amendment. People are just like, I got to carry every time everywhere out in the open. And, you know, and then there are going to be people who are like, hell, no. Like, you know, shut it down. And then you're trying to strike a balance. It's like, okay, do that, whatever you want. But it's alarming to customers in this place. And we're. We're a restaurant, not whatever else. We're not a range or, you know, it's maybe a whole alarming conversation for people in other parts of the world who just don't even get that sort of western us kind of mentality, because it's definitely different here as it's things. But not taking an issue on that, but then thinking about a company who has to figure out where they stand on something. It does seem like a lot of times CEOs and companies Wade into things that they should probably stay in the middle of or stay neutral on because it's not really your business. And you might feel strong, strongly about it as a human being, but the moment you do, like, boom, there you lose a bunch of your customers. Did you need to lose them? Well, I don't know. You know, what are you going to be in? Do you need to be in any camp on this thing? Right? Like, is that your job as a restaurant or whatever you are, Hair salon, like that? Maybe it is.

Yeah. And I think, I think that, I think that right now there are people out there that will tell you you have to take a stand on everything. I, I don't. I disagree.

Alienating. You're gonna be Left with one little sliver of people, like, I'm gonna take a stand on everything.

Like really, you know, I think, I think you, it's too polarizing. And I think that sometimes you just need to serve burgers, you know, you need to do what you do best.

And we're hungry.

That's right. And you know, you know, the founder used to say, we serve everyone. And I think that's how your mindset should be.

So you talked about leadership there quite a bit. You talked about humility, you talked about caring, you talked about listening and then finding a reasonable path. But what did they actually care about? So what did they care about? Now what they care about is not necessarily what our listeners, companies would care about, but what did they care about? How did that show up?

Well, I don't want to speak for them too much, but I will. I tell you what I, my, my perspective on it. They cared deeply about supporting the community at a very local level, which was a little different because a lot of big companies go national organizations to support. But in their case, they really wanted to stay local. They wanted people to feel like they knew each of the communities that where restaurants were. They care de deeply about family and they cared deeply about being fair to the employees and being good to the customers. And that came in a whole lot of different forms. But there were times because of that belief system, it permeated in the company and in the seat that I held for years, which was that communication piece and I ran social media, public relations, community relations, all the fun stuff. And I got to write the leadership and communication messages and handle the meetings and events for the company and you know, conventions and all of that. So I, I did get a nice view of who really who they were. And they were just good people, right? They were good people. And, and so, you know, I saw that because they cared about those things, we were able to live them out within the organization and in lots of fun ways. And I'll tell you one story. We did. These are fun things that we did. And this was over time we developed this whole way of working, but through social media we would see all kinds of trends, of course, that were going on. In one case, the kids in high school, obviously they do these things. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. They call promposals. And it is where it's made up term like there's a lot of those right now. But this was called a promposal. And what would happen is kids would, the boys would have to get really creative with how they were going to ask their date to the prom. And what we saw is just naturally people were using our brand to invite their date to the prom through delivering a burger or making a sign with our. The orange and white stripes on it. And they were, they were kind of already using it. So we said, what if we created a contest to say, if you do this for our brand and you do it the best, we are going to not only, you know, you know, shout your praises from our social media channels, which all the kids would love, but we're also going to host you at a restaurant, wherever you're from, in a. In a bougie environment, because we were going to make it Bougie.

Whataburger and bougie. I don't think of those two together. But.

And we did it. You should have seen it. It was fantastic. And we had a limo, we paid for their boutonniere and flowers, and we just covered the night. Right. And. And so we had a winner. We had all these kids that were using whataburger to actually, you know, get their date to come to with them to the prom. But then we had this, this really incredible event that followed. And like I said, we made the restaurant bougie and created a whole environment. We had my social media team at the time. God bless Scott. He dressed up in a white suit with an orange bow tie. He. He had white gloves. He carried out chicken nuggets on a tray and burgers on a tray and served them. You know, he had this, you know, we had a designer come in and create a space that was really, well, you know, nice. And they, the kids absolutely loved it. Right. And. And you know, I always say this to people. I'm like, did we have to go that far? No, we didn't. We could have just said, yeah, you won, and here's some coupons and enjoy the night. And I just think, what a missed opportunity. Don't do that.

When you do that, you've done something, touched something, but you haven't created anything memorable. You haven't gone above and beyond. You haven't leaned into anything. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so that was so fun to me. And like I said, had the family not been. They loved that kind of stuff, right?

Yeah.

You're like, go for it, do it.

Awesome things. Like, one is, you notice something already happening, and instead of trying to control it or constrain it, you lean into it, you celebrate it, you enhance it, and then you bring a whole lot of, like, look and feel. To the thing, you create an experience around something, a memory, right? And you stand out and then you jump onto what is already out there and you both rise together.

That's right. And then, you know, the media picks it up. You've got photos for days. The kids are sharing it everywhere. And I guarantee that was, I don't know, probably 10 years ago, maybe, maybe less. And I guarantee you those kids will never forget that. That whole time, that was a really fun experience for them. And, and there was just. I could go on and on. There's so many like that. But we just never went send some coupons. We were like, we're going to do more than send coupons. And that connection was really, really fun. And like I said, if you have a, if you have an ownership team or a family that's like, backs that kind of, that, that kind of extra step up and encourages it, then it starts to happen more and more because people know it'll be celebrated. And that's how culture is built, in my opinion. You, you demonstrate it. You don't just yammer on about it.

You know, it's interesting about, like, leaning into stuff. And I, this is a really early lesson or experience that I had. I started part of Sprint's business years ago and, and then I grew it and let it for a while to some size. But it was a really important, really profitable part of the business. And I didn't have direct control over almost anybody. So I had thousands and thousands of employees that I needed to influence to drive this really important, profitable piece of the business and that I was responsible for. And I'm like, how do I get people to do that? And at one point, we're going to introduce a new product, we called them. They were like features or function things, right? So we're going to introduce this new product. And so we were like, well, we already have some thoughts about it. Why don't we have an employee naming contest? And we invited employee naming in, but instead of just saying, like, you get to name the product, then we're going to shout you out and give you a gift certificate or something like that, right? We said, listen, we're going to have this contest, we're going to name it, we're going to do a drawing, we're going to do. And so we worked through it and we put some language in to make sure that it wasn't like an employee not in good standing or something like that.

Yes, it's always those things in the contest.

We're going to send you and a Friend or family to Paris. And you are going to go to Paris and you're going to help us test this new product. And so that was really good. And people jumped in, right. Like, I'm going to get a trip to France, right. And this is going out to like, you know, call center people, operators, customer service, telemarketing people that, you know, they don't, they don't make a ton of money. Most of them haven't left the country ever, besides Mexico, maybe. So we did the contest and then we picked a winner and it was great. But then we flew in, as I recall, it was Dallas, the winner. And we flew into Dallas and we hired an actor and a musician to play the part of like a French accordion player and a French actor. And we brought a baguette and a beret and like a bunch of silly stuff and we had a camera crew and we like come into this call center and we make a commotion and we're playing the music and we're like, you're going to Paris. And, and you know, and, and then that became a company wide communication. So we got layers of building on this whole thing. Now everybody knows about and thinking about. It's very top of mind. And it's at the top of mind in a, in a positive way for the employee, you know. Right.

And, and then the other employees see that and they go, okay, one, how cool I love this company that I work for. And, and the second thing they think is, how can I get be part of that?

Right.

And so it just, just, it just adds to the whole environment and it makes people want to be part of your culture. Because to me, culture is, I mean, it's. Everybody thinks, oh, I'm gonna, I'm going to give people more perks or I'm going to pay them more. I'm going to do these things. And I'm not saying you don't need to do those things or focus on it, but it's about more than that. And to me it's about creating communication and connection within your organization. And it's not just the events, it's also in the mundane. There was a friend of mine that I was talking to about culture one time and she said, I used to work for the worst best culture ever. And I laughed. So what do you mean? And she went into it and she said every afternoon they would come rolling around with their beer cart or they'd be telling us to come down and meet for a party or an event in the break room, that sort of thing. And she goes, and all I could think was, I don't want to hang out with the people that they're asking me to go down there and hang out with. Because all through the week there had been confusion, chaos, lack of communication, disrespect, no collaboration. And so if, if you don't have that foundational communication, that's, that is respectful. If people don't feel equipped to do a good job in their role, if they don't feel like they had a heads up that something was rolling out that just, you know, broke 10 of the things that they do, that that's going to frustrate people. And so there's no amount of perks and parties is going to cover that up. And so, you know, my, my deal is, yes, do all the fun, cool things, that's fine, but you better cover the, the basics in how you communicate, how you collaborate, how do you reward people, how do you recognize all the things that you talk about on your podcast? I mean, how are you doing that? Right.

There's a phrase for that phenomenon. I think you may have heard it before. Icing on a mud pie. Right?

Yeah.

Okay, everything sucks around here, but we're gonna put some fun things on top of it and like, whatever. And then you're like, I hate all these people. But if you come in and go, you know, please come down. We just want to acknowledge it's been really stressful around here and we're fraying at each other's nerves. And so let's take a minute just to acknowledge how it's been for you. And if there's something that you'd like to apologize to some, take a minute and do that. And then for a minute, now, let's have a beer. Now we've done it. We've addressed the mud pie, icing on top of it.

Yeah. Nobody's going to eat the mud pie even if it has icing.

Right.

So I just, yeah, I agree with you. 100. You've gotta, you gotta address the real problems in the, in the company. And like, you know, there's, there's so many companies that I, I hear about and some that I've worked with that are, it's chaotic. You know, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand's doing. Nobody's talking. They might be talking within their own team, but they're not talking cross functionally.

And talking with a CEO yesterday, and it's very clear to the CEO the business they're in, what they're up to, what's important why things are the way they are. It's not clear to the rest of the team though. I'm like, it lives in your head. It's very clear. You've got to do a lot more talking.

Absolutely.

What they are thinking about and what it's like for them. Right.

Yeah. You know, and a lot of times the companies spend a lot of time communicating at that top level and the. So all of the leaders, let's say, sit in a room with the CEO COO and they're very well informed about what's going to happen every quarter, the context behind it, why this was chosen over that. So on they know the context and the reason that they're told all of that is so they can go tell their teams. Right. Share the information. But what I found time and time and time again is you can tell everybody in very clear terms, but they are not really good about cascading information. And so you need a system that will cascade it for you. Because if you depend solely on your leaders to do it, you're going to be disappointed. And I don't mean to sound so harsh, but it's just in my perspective, true.

They don't think it needs to be said. They don't realize that everybody doesn't know that or hasn't heard that already or that it isn't obvious. We don't. And so much of it is so, so basic, like repeating basic message. Which is why a lot of our teams will do a monthly all hands where the CEO and the leaders, the senior leaders will speak to everyone on the team. And this matters even more as your team gets across time zones, as it gets across locations, as you go to hundreds and thousands of people, like getting that communication out and short circuiting some of that process so that it doesn't get distorted by one weirdo that you should have fired a long time ago. That's it.

I mean really, I love how you're saying that because it's the truth. Because you do have some weirdos. Right?

There's. Yeah.

And the CEO, to me, the CEO and the COO should be in such. They should be investing in communication so that it is. Their message is getting out the way they want the message to get out, not filtered through various people and various opinions. It's. You need it from, as they say, the horse's mouth. Right. Like what is it that you believe, CEO? And if you don't have a system like that, then you're gambling, you know, you're gambling with what people think of you as a leader. You're gambling with what people think you believe for the brand, and you're gambling with performance. Because when there's various messages going out in different ways to different people, delivered in a different tone, and all of the things you're. You're not going to achieve the level of performance you could have had you been clear, consistent and respectful in the way you delivered all those messages. But a lot of CEOs aren't. That's not their strong suit. And that's okay. You know, it's not going to be every CEO's strong suit. So that's why you need somebody to help you do it.

I think shared some other notes on things that happen there. I don't know which one is better to talk about, biscuits or man caves?

Biscuits or man caves? Okay, well.

Maybe those go together.

No, they're different. But one is sad, one is sad, one is happy. So it depends on what kind of mood we're in. Yeah, I think. I'll. Think I'll tell the happier one.

Okay.

But this one was. I've got so many good stories, but there is once, one time, like we had again, this was. This was a comment that we saw on social media and a. A woman had said her husband was coming home from Iraq and he loved Whataburger. He loved the Spurs. Those are the two things he loved most in his life. And all she was asking us for was to. I mean, I hope he loved her, too. That sounded bad. I'm sure he loved her the most in his life.

And kids love my team, and I.

Love spurs and burgers. So anyway, she reached out and she said, hey, can I have. She wanted just some, like, you know, merchandise, things like that that she could use because she wanted to update their garage and make it a man cave for him. And so we heard that. And again, we could have just sent some swag and been done with it and had said, good luck and thank you for your service and that sort of thing, but we didn't. We went overboard and we helped transform that, that the entire garage. We coordinated with the Spurs. We did the Reve came home, he was in tears. He was so excited. And it just, again, it's one of those times where I think, again, these companies have these opportunities. They just have to find them. They've got to look for them, they've got to have a culture in their communication team to look for those. And then they have to have a culture that says, go above and beyond, do something cool. Don't just do the obvious. And so yeah, those were just the stories that I think not only connect to a customer, but it brings culture to life for people and employees. And my team loved doing, made them feel there was purpose behind it. It wasn't just serving burgers. We were creating experiences and moments for families and people that cared about us, and we wanted to return that. That same love, you know, to say, we care about you too, you know, And I think that builds such a cool connection with your brand when you can do that. And, you know, I've been featuring the stories like this on my.

It's thoughtful, it's relevant, and that's loving, right? Thoughtful and relevant is. But it's caring, and that's. That's definitely loving. And you got somebody coming back from any kind of conflict in. In any role. If you've been around something traumatic, right. It has weight on you. If you've seen people injured, if you've seen people killed, wherever you are, it's. It's like, hard. And then think about people going through other things. Like, less dramatic. Like somebody just going through a family health crisis or dealing with a child and. Or a loved one in going through a crisis. Like, it's. If you can show that person thoughtful, relevant care, like, wow, what a difference that can make. And then go further. Don't just do it at a certain level. Like, lean into it, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and make it part of who you are as a brand. Right. I've been featuring people on my LinkedIn companies that I find that are doing these things. You know, I don't know if you've heard, You've heard or seen what Chewy does. Chewy is a brand that sells dog food and pet. Pet supplies. It's an online store, and they do the coolest thing. They. If. If they have been like, let's. This. This one story. There was a girl who had been buying her dog food from Chewy for years, and her dog passed away. And she had an unopened bag of dog food, and she asked if she could get a refund on it. And not only did they give her the refund, but they said, just donate the bag to, you know, a shelter. And also they sent her flowers with a note from the girl she spoke to, you know, just expressing their condolences. And. And as I was looking into this more, I found out that they also do portraits, painted portraits of their. Of these animals that the people have lost. And I. I'm just like, okay, that's not just happening by accident, right? There's a There's a system behind that, and they are being very intentional about connecting to customers who lose a pet. And these, you know, some of these, some of these folks are so close to their. Their animals. It is very meaningful to them when that happens. And, and then you've got a brand that's filling that gap at that moment. And I think that's. That's what I would. I want more brands to do. I want brands to see that bring back the humanity that we desperately need in our world. Because you have platforms that you can do that. And, and what a powerful thing that would be is if our, if we used our brands to bring back that human, human experience and basically say, I see you and, and you know, I know we're just a brand, but we want you to know we care. And I think that could be so powerful.

Yeah. You have one more story I'd like to ask you about before we close. Before we do that, let me just remind listeners and viewers that scalingcoach.com is our website. And we have there not only all these 560plus shows, the whole back catalog on everything to do with your people. Strategy, execution, cash. We have downloads, things like that. We have a little mini course for free there about what are the stages that companies go through as they scale and where are you at and what moves do you need to do to move to the next stage stage that we've distilled from working with thousands of companies over the years. So that free mini course there on the stages of scaling and the secrets of the companies that scale big. And then we have a monthly workshop on getting your mindset right for scale. And, and the. And then what tools do you apply given the new mindset? So we have all that and more@scalingcoach.com thank you.

Awesome.

So go there. The thing I wanted you to finish with is this. You have a story about an employee moved from a place where there was trust, no trust to trust, and what they were dealing. So to the best you can tell us about that?

Yeah, it's something that I experienced a lot, is that there would be people that would come from other organizations. And I would notice that in that, in the, in those people, they would be very, like, reserved. They would not be very open about information. They were kind of closed off. They were careful. And I was noticing that in one of the employees that I had, and I was wondering, like, she's so talented, and I'm. I'm sensing that she's not really diving in and being open with everybody. So that we can get to the best solution. And I kind of just. I would talk to her about it, but I would just kind of. I was letting her figure. Figure it out for herself. And one day I was. It was probably six months in to her starting work, and she came in my office, and I had really seen her just kind of start to flourish, right? People were talking about what a great job she was doing and how helpful she was and all of these things I was hearing. And she said. She told me. I said, what changed? You know, what. What was the difference? And she said, well, the organization that I came from, you couldn't do that. If you. If you shared too much, they would use that information against you, or they would take your idea and go do it behind your back and not give you any credit. And they started telling me all these horror stories, right, Which I had not been experiencing. And. And she said. And then I just realized that you guys aren't like that. It's really a team here, and people really do like. Like each other, and people treat each other with respect, and y' all actually really work together. And. And it was so interesting to me as a person who'd been in the organization so long, because I was like, well, why does. What does everybody else do? I mean, what are y' all doing out there? You know? And. And so it was just. It was kind of a moment for me to realize that just because my experience had been so positive was not. That does not mean every other company out there is doing it that way. And. And I. And I just saw that power in creating a true team. Not the, you know, stuff you put on a poster, but, like, real teamwork, right? And the power that can have in your performance and also in just the overall morale of the organization. Because just in that one individual, I saw her performance just exponentially increase once she realized she could let her guard down. And I think you have to have that.

That room, that carrying that trust. Like, if you don't care and if you don't create an environment of trust, if you don't give trust, you won't get trust. Like, and whatever culture you're trying to build, it's comprised of human beings. And if you're not in their world beyond just what they do, 9 to 5 or whatever your working hours are, and you don't really have that human being, you're relating to them as like a gear in a machine, right? Like, not a whole person who brings all their family with them to work and all their work with them back to their family and back and forth every day, and is carrying that in the background, whatever it is.

And I had so many times that I had been through a tough divorce years before. And, you know, you go through things like that and you never know when you're going to need it, use it again, right? Like those experiences, you're. You're asking yourself, why am I going through this? What happened? You know, all of that. And. And then think, life comes full circle. Because I had many women that would come to me because they knew that I'd been through that, and they would come to me, either in my department or people in the company and just go, can you help me? And I think that's. That's the other piece of leadership is that being vulnerable enough to say, you know, I'm not proud of this, but it happened to me, and here's what I did to get through it. And then that is a connection with other people one day, but sometimes they need your, you've been there. How did you get through that? What did you do? And I think that's another component of leadership, is not thinking. This is a Texas term. But I was like, don't ever get too big for your britches and think that you have it all figured out, because life will humble you very quickly, right? And so I just think having humility in leadership and being able to admit your mistakes and be open about those will actually bring more people to you versus less. You know, people don't want to hang out with the person who thinks they've got it all figured out. Those people are annoying, right? We want to hang out with the people that are messed up like us and are willing to say, yeah, I don't have it all figured out, but I know some things, you know, I know some things, and I can help you with that part.

The older and more experienced I get, the more humbled I am by how little I actually know and how much more there is left to learn. And just when I start to think, well, I kind of got something figured out, then something happens and, like, smacks me upside the head. And I'm like, yeah, life.

I tell. I tell my now husband often I like, you know, I'm good at other things. Like, there's certain things I'm not good at, but I'm good at other things, and that's okay thing to know as.

A leader in a team, there are things you're good at and things you're not, and it's really powerful to embrace both and be straight with yourself. And with the people around you. Look, if you put me in charge of the operation of your company, we're going to fail. I'm not a good operator executor. I'm really great at the strategy. I'm really great at evangelizing things. I'm really great at some human side of things and the concept and the persuasion. But the strategy side, or even keeping the team together, the social thing, I'm way too much of an introvert for that. I know that about myself and I'm not trying to pretend differently anymore. Right, that's it. Oh Patnamic. Patnemec.com is her website. Check it out. We'll put it there on the screen. We'll put it in the show notes for you as well. If you want to know more about her company and her work in this. If you if this resonated with you and you're like, oh, I should have a conversation with her and upgrade my company culture and the way our brand shows up in the world starts inside and then moves outside. Pam Namek.com thanks again everyone for watching, for listening. Thanks again to my friend and mentor, Vern Harnish, who created the whole scaling up framework to the folks at store on Cameron, Christel, Seth, the team who get our show ready in before and after every week and out to all of you. Thanks to the folks at store. Thanks again for watching, for listening. Until next time, keep scaling.