Coinbase & XMTP's Game-Changing Partnership Feat. Shane XMTP

This is the Pool Together Community Podcast. Pool Together is the world's number one no-loss prize savings account. You can visit pooltogether.com to deposit. You're listening to the Pool Together Community Podcast. I'm your host, Millie Yearley, aka Tim, aka Hot Mike, aka Web3 messaging extraordinaire, you know, hit me up in the DMs, Bibi. And I'm here with Shane from XMTP. Shane, thanks for joining the PoolTogether community.

Hey, it's great to be here.

Awesome. So as we always start these podcasts out off is with your personal journey through crypto. I think it's really good to hear people's stories of how they got involved, and it encourages people who are just getting involved right now with crypto to hear somebody else's story. So what's your story, Shane?

Yeah, it's actually, it all starts with a stroke of luck. It was 2011 and I was on the Caltrain, which is a train that goes from San Francisco down to Palo Alto. And it runs even further south than that, but I was going to visit friends. And this guy tapped me on the shoulder and he, there was an app called Path back in the day. It was a private social network. And he said, hey, is this you? And it was a photo of me and my friend Jeffrey Morris, who actually now runs a venture firm called Chapter One. And I said, yeah, that is me. I was like, that's me and Jeff last night. He goes, ah, I saw you and I saw Jeff posted it. I went to grade school with Jeff. He's an old friend of mine. My name's Adam. Then I was like, oh, it's great to meet you, man. You know, it's kind of cool meeting random people on a train, driving for an hour between San Francisco and Palo Alto, and kind of the cool connections that just happen in San Francisco. And when we lived there, when I lived there for 10 years. It was an awesome kind of just entrepreneurial community. And he, in 2011, for the next 45 minutes, was like, I want to tell you about Bitcoin, and I want to tell you why it matters, and I want to tell you that you should treat it like a science experiment. And if in 10 years it's successful, the idea of a whole Bitcoin probably won't exist in the future, but If it's not successful, there's not a lot of loss right now to get involved and really just try it out. And so he talked for the next 45 minutes, and to be honest, I had no idea if it was going to work or not, but I really believed, and the enthusiasm that he spoke about how much he believed in it, and he was starting a venture firm focused on just crypto companies and the future of blockchains, et cetera. And just finding someone so passionate, but also so deep in the weeds. To this day, that moment was probably one of the most successful kind of interactions I've ever had from an investing standpoint. And I went home and I bought Bitcoin and I held it for 10 years. And to this day, that guy, Adam Draper, has become probably one of the most known people in all of crypto. And he just randomly tapped me on the shoulder on this train and told me about it. And what I learned though is the fact that I got distracted for 10 years building a messaging company is probably the only reason that I ended up holding it for 10 years. Because had I been in the space, I didn't have tons of conviction, so I didn't really have a belief system that would've allowed me to hold for a decade. And I just kind of said, you know, I'm going to trust Adam. And I just had this trust in this guy and ignoring it for 10 years and just working on messaging and building a messaging platform for brands to talk to people on all of the messaging apps like WhatsApp, Messenger, Apple Business Chat, SMS, et cetera, I think is probably the only reason that it even worked out for me. And so, you know, it wasn't until 2015, '16 when everyone around me in SF was working on Ethereum and ICOs were happening and all this stuff was happening. But that didn't really— I didn't have the time at that time. We were just scaling my last company and I was heads down on that. And so that era, a lot of my friends started getting in it. So smart people and smart developers I was friends with, I was like, man, everyone seems to be really building on this blockchain stuff, but I just stayed focused. So it wasn't really that era. It was really my company got acquired in 2019 and I had time during the lockup to really just kind of look up and see what was happening. And it wasn't until my co-founder, Matt, kind of told me, hey, you can send billions of dollars between wallet addresses, but you can't even send an email. And it's kind of crazy, but it feels like in the early day of the web, you can do all these things on the internet, but there's no way to communicate between these new identities. And that really was, I think, the moment when I started really digging in and trying to understand Could there be a new identity? And if so, communication usually follows.

What a great story. And I really think this is the first person I've interviewed. I've done over 60 episodes of this podcast of somebody who's like, yeah, and I just held and I just held it. Most people are just like, and I sold it like an idiot. Like that's generally maybe 2 out of 60 at least. But I love that. And I love that you say it starts with the stroke of luck. Yeah. You were going to say something?

No, I was going to say, and it's not because I was smart, it's because I was not paying attention.

That's right.

I really think that you either have to ignore it or you have to believe with so much conviction, and I didn't, I wasn't that at all, in something to be able to hold things that are exponential. And if you think about investing, the reason startup investments end up great for most people is because they're not liquid, so they can't sell it. Because holding onto something and not selling it when it's worth 100x, 500x is kind of stupid. And so, you know, some of these things happen and it really is like you're either at one end of that spectrum. And for me, luckily I was building a company and, you know, the funny thing is the part of the story that is losing it, which is you want the other part of it, is Adam told me, hey, you might want to move a few of those Bitcoin into Dogecoin in 2014. He sent me an email and we, I was joking on Twitter. You can go look at the tweets if you search Shane Mack Dogecoin, because I always tag it every like couple years just to remind myself of how funny it was. And Adam messaged me back and I said, hey, my crypto banker who told me about Bitcoin, do you think I need some Dogecoin? And he wrote me back on Twitter and said, no, I think you're good. And a day later he wrote me an email and I still have the screenshot. And it said, hey man, I know I told you probably don't need Dogecoin, but actually a lot of moms and daughters are using it because they love the dog on the front of it, I might buy a little bit myself and just hold it and see what happens. And I bought 500,000 Dogecoin that day with 3 Bitcoin, and I used the exchange Cryptsy.com, which ended up being a total scam. And I lost those 3 Bitcoin that day. Now it goes to CryptsySettlement.com because the guy basically just took all our Bitcoin and heisted us. But I thought I had 500,000 Dogecoin, and if I had been dumb enough to hold that, then I actually would've done pretty well on that as well. But I ended up just losing 3 Bitcoin instead. So,

okay. Well, that makes me feel better. No, I, I know I want, I want people to win. And then, but then there's also the people that like use it, right? That experiment with it. And then it's like, you bought pizza with Bitcoin and then you're like, why did I buy pizza with Bitcoin? Why did I pay for breakfast in 2019 with Ethereum?

It's because you didn't believe in it. I mean, that's the point. It's like, it wouldn't matter what you did. This is when people are like, Oh my gosh, if I would've bought it, I bought it for $44. If I would've bought 50 Bitcoin for $44, oh my God. I said, no, you would've sold it for $300. Like, because that's the logical thing to do. And the only reason I didn't was because I kind of believed Adam and I just, he literally told me, hey, if you think about this in a 10-year timeframe, the idea of a whole Bitcoin won't exist in the future. And that was the line that I guess maybe gave me the belief to just like ignore it and hold it. I was like, that's kind of crazy, but could you just, yeah, I guess if it just gets divided, there's only 21 million of them. Like maybe the people are like, oh yeah, he's OG. He's got a whole bar. He's got the whole Bitcoin. That's crazy. And that didn't actually play out to be true for what it's worth. There mostly is still priced in a whole Bitcoin and that is where it's at. Him and his dad obviously still truly believe in the future of Bitcoin. I still hold them as well and I really believe in it. And I have, I did sell some in the last kind of bull market because it was irresponsible not to, but I do still hold a lot and I still really believe long-term in it. And I think those belief systems though, kind of are weird on how they are, how they wired up into you. And I probably would've sold had I not had that interaction with Adam and had he not gave me that single sentence that really stuck with me.

Oh, see, so I think, I think the dissonance here, at least in my mind, is I'm not thinking like a Bitcoiner. I'm thinking like an ETH maxi, like I want to use the stuff, right? I believe in it so much, but I think the reason I believe in it is because I can use it and do stuff. And the more cool things I can do with it, the more I'm like really believing in it, you know? So, so my belief is in the utility and the widespread adoption of it and to be widespread adopted, at least with the, you know, in the ETH ecosystem, it's gotta be used. You gotta make those transactions, baby. Whereas Bitcoin, no, it's like, it's your, it's your gold storage. You know, you're not walking around handing out gold bars to pay for breakfast or something.

Totally.

So that's, that's interesting, the 2 different mindsets. But for me, it's like using it. But then you feel bad, like, lose using it when everything is at an all-time high and you're like, why did I use it? I should have just held it. But then you're like, because I believe in it and because we're supposed to use it. That's the whole point.

Totally.

So it's just interesting.

And honestly, I didn't know that at the time. And that's definitely why I hold and really believe in Ethereum today is the utility of it, which is awesome. Um, and I definitely just see them in 2 very different lights.

And it's interesting, like, our found— one of our co-founders for PoolTogether, Leighton, has a similar story in the fact that He had a, it was like a texting to give software development or software platform that he also, that also was acquired in maybe not 2019, maybe 2018. I'm not sure of the timeline, but that's really cool kind of analog there or similarity. But then you get into this Web3 messaging and of course, right, wallets, wallets can do all these transactions, but why can't they message? So can you tell me like, that origin story of just how, you know, you started something and just go into depth there because only recently I feel like, and I've been in the space since, like, I've dabbled since 2019. I've been full-time in 2021, November 2021. Just this past summer has been like a massive explosion of what Web3 messaging can do. And I know it's been the slow, the slow burn, for a while, but maybe, I mean, Shane, you're at the forefront of it, so I would love to hear your, you know, your timeline, your side of the story.

I mean, for me, it came down to a single conversation that was kind of the light bulb moment. And I know messaging's been tried for a long time, and I think there's some things around specifically Web3 that make it uniquely challenging and maybe why it hadn't worked in the past and hopefully why it is working now. And I think that comes down to having a public identity that everyone can know versus a private identity that works on different silos and different apps. And so I'll break down how that works and why I think the unique challenges and opportunities are there. But for us, it was Matt and I had lived next to each other for 10 years in San Francisco. We were always talking ideas, building applications. I'd been working on messaging for a decade. My first startup in 2009 got acquired by BlackBerry, and I worked on BBM. So I've always just believed in and worked in messaging and secure messaging specifically. And what I've learned over the years is communication usually follows a new identity. So URLs were brought online and blue links started happening and email followed that. And then SMS really was connected to people using their phone number and calling people and that identity as their thing they used. And then social networks had a public Identifier that ended up kind of creating social messaging silos for every identity. And it wasn't until Robert Leshner, the co-founder of Compound Labs, was talking to Matt and I, and he said, I have $11 billion in a smart contract. I know every single person's address, and I can't message 95% of them. And I was like, what? I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, I can send money to their wallets. I know their wallet address. They are using that wallet, and that's the only thing that they're attaching to the protocol. So I don't know their email, I don't know their phone number, but I need to send them a message. I need to let them know about governance, let them know about liquidation type events happening, but I can't. And I was like, that's so crazy. I was like, why can you send trillions of dollars on the internet in this new way across all of these apps, but you can't send an email? And he is like, I have no idea. And so we talked to 25 other DeFi founders and all of them were like, this is a huge problem. We just, we can't communicate, especially in a verified way. And I think that was the light bulb for me is you always want to figure out if there's something that enables you to do something better, not just like do it again. And for me, doing verified messaging so that the person you're talking to, You're guaranteed that the person is who they say they are and they own what they say they own. And the fact that the message objects are signed by the wallet that actually owns the assets really does create this new paradigm that allows you to verify that who you're talking to owns what they say they own. And that is very, very useful in a space where a lot of scams, a lot of spoofing, and other things are happening across, you know, an app like this, Discord, Twitter, email, et cetera. And if you think about all the implications in the world where you're like, hey, I just sent you 8 cents to your checking account, can you prove that it's you and that's your address? And then I'll send you the full money. Or every time I send crypto, I'm like praying that I put the address in right, where now I can just have a conversation and then send the money. And both of those are guaranteed to be to the same address. That fundamentally shifts kind of the trust mechanism by which crypto works.

So, so you've created this XMTP and So how'd you land Coinbase? How'd that happen? I mean, for the listener, I was at ECC and, and, you know, Coinbase for me is just like the ultimate, right, for PoolTogether. If we could get more things about PoolTogether and Coinbase and just, you know, that's, they're awesome there. I have a little shield in my Twitter handle to, I don't know, support them. And they've got, they've launched Base. So there's all this Base, you know, excitement and stuff. And so I roll up to ECC, I don't have a ticket to the conference, but I'm going to all the side events and then I go to the Coinbase event and everything is chat powered. Everything you want to drink, you chat. If you want some merch, you got to chat. There's even like some puzzles that were going on. Like if you could come up with the code word, then you would get free merch. And I couldn't figure out the code word, but I was like trying to joke with the person on the other side that I was messaging. So it was just so awesome. How did— can you unfold how that That happened.

Yeah. I mean, Coinbase has been an amazing partner and that was kudos to a lot of their creativity and they're doing such awesome stuff with the wallet and real utility and real life use cases and using crypto for things like buying coffee and actually getting testnet funds and doing the on-chain summer and getting notifications so I can mint instantly in the wallet. Like they're just nailing use cases that are driving retention, driving real use cases, giving utility to your identity, and using ENS subdomains. I mean, across the board, they're just doing use cases that I think are meaningful to people's lives. And they've been an awesome partner to work with. And, you know, how we landed Coinbase, your original question, is they kind of saw the future too. And I think when they saw an encrypted and secure messaging protocol that allowed interoperability between every identity in in the Web3 space, our visions kind of aligned where, you know, we didn't see the future as us building this app and come to our app and get notifications in our app, and the XMTP app is going to be the thing. We actually saw it as the opposite. We saw wallets as the center of the universe and messaging inboxes as the center of the universe, and the ability for all of the applications in Web3 to be able to use a standard and encrypted and secure protocol like XMTP. as a transport layer so that all of these apps can communicate, not XMTP as the destination, I think is a very fundamental decision that we made early on. And it allowed for partnerships with companies like Coinbase and other wallets and other inboxes to really be the place that people are trying to reach, which is ultimately what the apps wanted. And I think a lot of people tried to go after being the inbox, being the application, And it really, when we had conversations with many developers, what they wanted was to reach the wallet. And what Coinbase wanted was for developers to reach the wallet in a verified and meaningful way and really send high signal messages to the wallet so that you can do things like mint instantly for Onchain Summer right from the notification without ever having to leave the wallet. and that experience to do something that is actually faster in crypto and simpler in crypto and more useful in crypto than how the internet works today is the entire point of what we should all be working on. And I hadn't actually felt for most things crypto in the last 15 years until I felt the experiences that they were building using messaging to drive the ability to send commerce globally, to send USDC for free to anyone in the world. It's a Cash App, Venmo competitor now to do that across borders. To be able to do a coffee order with USDC for free without having a 3% fee to the actual cafe. And then to be able to just actually get notifications for things I care about and mint and buy and purchase things inside the wallet from the notification without having to go to a browser, use Apple Pay, log in, go to Shopify, none of that. And to be able to just do that all within a single application, I think starts to show the future in a very powerful way.

Yeah, this subdomain stuff is, is super awesome. And I think it all started with cb.id where Coinbase was like, hey, we're, we want to create this ID system for these wallets. And then XMTP is able to just like, boom, connect right to that already existing subdomain system that Coinbase pioneered. PoolTogether just launched recently our own subdomain. So I have tim.pooltogether.eth. Wasi did it as well. And it's using namestone.xyz, which is an ENS steward. And so it's really cool to get these things for free and I want to collect them all, right? Like I want, I want all my communities to have these gasless subdomains so that I can claim them. But one thing I noticed is I was talking to Opalus, which is, you know, a company that helps freelancers get healthcare and, you know, provides payroll and do S corp stuff. For people who are in crypto, but, or freelancing, you know, just generally. And I was talking to them about subdomains and they were like, oh, well, people don't want to dox their payroll. They don't want to like dox themselves in some way. And so it was interesting for me to think about, okay, I'm thinking about it as a wallet connection, but really it's like a, it's this personal, it's this digital identity, right? You want to make sure that the wallet is connected to a human. And you can cycle through these wallets, right? You can actually like switch out where you can keep the subdomain as your, one of your, or your ENS domain, any domain. You can keep your email addresses, but you can change what those are connected to. So there's this really interesting dynamic of like, yes, it's the wallet, but like sometimes you want to like swap out wallets, especially in a hot wallet situation or in a wallet, in a thing where you don't want to dox yourself. So that's, that's interesting from a messaging perspective where the, the messages are connected to the wallet, correct? With XMTP. So if I, or is it connected to, I'm trying to think that I'm just, I, I know the answer to this, Shane, help me here. It's connected to the wallet, right? So if I switched wallets, I would have a different set of messaging, even though I might have the ENS set to different, like I might switch the ENS to a different wallet.

No, it's not set to the wallet at all.

Okay. It's set to the ENS then?

Nope. It's not set to the identity. It's set to the wallet address, which is the private key.

Yes. Yes.

So if you switch from Coinbase Wallet to MetaMask,

yes,

then you would be able to take your messages with you in the future. If you switch from—

With the same. Yeah. Private key.

With the same private key. The private key in the, in the EOA address is what owns your communication. The wallet is just the view into your messages. Just like you own your communication, like you own your assets.

Right. Okay. And then there, so there are, there are sites like mailchain.com. There, there are these aggregators as well, correct? Like where you could like connect up a couple different on the user side, a couple different wallets just so that you have one inbox.

Yeah. I'm not too familiar with how MailChain's doing it.

Okay.

We would love them to support XMTP so that actually For all of the people that are using it as the main messaging protocol in Web3, we would love for MailChain to support XMTP in their client so that you could communicate to all of the, you know, in any address in Web3 that is supported on the XMTP network. I'm pretty sure we're the largest communication network in Web3, and we'd love to work with, you know, applications that are doing aggregation like MailChain.

Okay. Yeah. So, so no, I appreciate this because it's helping me think through. I just get so excited. As I'm using it and being able to communicate with people, the one thing that gets me really excited is Converse. And I know that Converse has this new broadcast feature. So not only can you use Converse on your mobile app to send messages via XMTP to your friends, and Converse even shows you— this is what blows my mind— it suggests to you users that you might be willing to, that you might want to message because of on-chain activity. Hey, you guys all hold— here's some people that this person holds like 10% of the NFTs that you hold, that you actually might want to talk to them. So it's really cool to see that, like, uh, the suggested messages. But they have broadcasts where if you've created an NFT, or for— in my example, I created a Lens post that was collectible for a fee. And my wife and I feed feral cats in Brooklyn, and so I just used video of my fur— of these feral cats that we feed. And it's like, hey, This is expensive. If anybody wants to collect, this will help us buy a bag of food. And so I got $30 from the collect on Lens, and then I was able to use Converse to message all those people that collected it a thank you note and gave them feedback on, like, I followed up with them and it was a really cool usage of broadcast. But my fear is, or my question is, I feel like brands are going to more and more get hip to this messaging with Web3. Which means here comes the spam. So Shane, how can we be able to harness this power of broadcasting, of being able to talk to each other across, you know, people who collected things, people who have various community affinities in a way that's not another place where I have to prevent the spam?

Yeah, it's a really great question and something that we're working on deeply. And I think There's something here where we can do something that because of the way Web3 works and by building a standard at the protocol level, we can actually change the relationship with consent and spam in the future. And I think it's 2 fundamental things. One is this idea of using on-chain data Or economics as the public inbox. So if you've never interacted with someone before, applications now can use all of these new datasets to know everything about the message coming into you based on the wallet it's coming from. So if you even look in Converse right now, you can see that it recommends people based on if they're a mutual follow on Lens, if they're a mutual follow on Farcaster, if we've previously interacted, if we were both ENS eligible airdrops, There's all this dataset now that right now it only lives within Facebook in these private pixels that Facebook has about us. But now there's a public kind of dataset that'll allow us to better target and filter and help us have control over the messages coming at us. And I think that's like, that's just really, really powerful. The second one though, I think is the one that at XMTP we're really focused on, which is the idea of a private consent that the entire network can get value from. And today, in SMS and email, when you go to send an email or you go to send an SMS and you're a brand and say you're trying to spam, the only way that the network knows that these phone numbers were not consented to you is if you said it. You have to just trust the sender, which is why there's CAN-SPAM laws and all these laws that have been created to say if you send spam messages without having consent from the individual, We'll fine you. But how do you enforce that? You basically are running around trying to play whack-a-mole to a black box of people saying, yeah, yeah, I got the consent, I got these phone numbers on my website. And then you go to sign up for a new SMS marketing platform and it takes 3 weeks to sign up and get going because you had to go read all the text and make sure you got all these phone numbers based on that. And you don't really actually know. They just have to be like, okay, it doesn't seem too sketch. That's basically how it works today versus In the future, every person can consent and say, I opt in to get messages from shanemac.eth or nike.eth. That consent is owned by the individual and the sender recipient. Any application that I log into and use shouldn't have to worry about if the person saying I have the consent is saying, trust me. The actual protocol can provide that information. So now any inbox and any sending application in the future can actually provide a protocol-level consent piece of information that allows you to know what to put in the main inbox or what to put in the request inbox, which we're talking about the public inbox earlier, and help filter it and prioritize it. Maybe there's economics, maybe you get paid to open your messages, economic spam control. There's so many things you can do in that. But just by having this consent mechanism at the protocol, can change the dynamic by how applications can know, does this person have the consent to send a message to me or not? And I think that's a pretty fundamental shift in how the entire communication infrastructure can work that SMS and email didn't have.

That's really great. Praise be. I can't wait till less spam. But what is the, what's, there's also this conversation about on-chain and off-chain and what really needs to be on-chain and what really needs to be off-chain. Could you help me understand with XMTP, what is specifically on-chain, what is specifically off-chain, and why those decisions were made?

Yeah, the messages are stored off-chain. And early on we were exploring, you know, sending messages on-chain, putting it in NFT metadata, et cetera. If you get into one, security, and two, scalability, it's just really not an option. And when you get into security and the ability to have encrypted communication, as well as obfuscating who's talking to who, and not putting all of those interactions on-chain, which is very private to people, and I think is very important to drive a private communication protocol, doing that on-chain just isn't really an option. But we do use on-chain identities, and that to us is very important. And so the public-private key pair of an EOA, is the way that it works today, but we're not tied to a chain. So we're not chain dependent, we're chain agnostic, we're identity agnostic. And really in the future, any identity should be able to securely communicate with any other identity. And those messages should be encrypted and delivered in a decentralized node network, but it is an off-chain network, not an on-chain network.

Yeah, that's a, that's, I'm in this business development group and I was trying to get everybody to do Web3 messaging instead of Telegram. And it, one of, one of the defeaters was like, I don't want my stuff on-chain. That's weird. And I was like, well, it's not on-chain, but it's a common thing when you start using wallets to message each other, people can assume, wait, where's my data going? Where is this message viewable? So I'm hearing just in my mind, I'm thinking about like message aggregation across multiple wallets as a thing of the future, this get paid for your attention kind of thing, you know, like paid to read a newsletter or paid to look at a, that's an interesting dynamic. Also like list building, I'm thinking as a marketer, the, the ability to, you know, get paid for being on a list for a marketer, even for that kind of owning your data and like allowing just the idea of consenting and even being, maybe being rewarded for that. Whereas right now in web, in the Web2 world, we don't get that. At all. And then what else for the future? What's the future of Web3 messaging, Shane? I'm excited to hear what you have in store. Maybe leak a little alpha, it's fine, whatever you want to do.

You know, it's pretty simple for us. We're focused on working with all of the major inboxes and all of the major wallets to become the largest and ubiquitous communication network of all of Web3. And we are really focused on that so that you can reach any wallet address and any identity Using the XMTP network. Alongside that is continuing to publish the decentralization plan with economics of the network so that everyone can understand how this progresses and really have the trust in the future of the network and the stability and the scalability of it in a decentralized way so that we're all working on it together. And we see ourselves as stewards of the protocol, not owners of the protocol. And really looking to work with more and more developers to really build XMTP into a standard internet protocol, much like the largest standards of the past, you know, TCP/IP, HTTP, HTTP, SMS, SMTP. And we think XMTP can be just another global standard that's built to allow interoperable and secure communication between every messaging app in the world.

So as we wrap up our time here, Shane, I'm wondering if you have anything else that you wanted to mention, talk about, plug. Maybe we didn't go a direction that my questions went and you would like to go there. Any other final closing thoughts?

Yeah, just that dApp-to-user communication is starting to really, really be successful. So if you're an application and you're a marketplace, you're an NFT platform, you're a DeFi platform, or you're a marketer, where you are trying to reach wallets, now you can. And that interaction of subscribing on a site, if you saw what Coinbase did for On-Chain Summer, you click subscribe every morning, you get a notification, you can click the notification, you can mint right within the wallet. And that entire end-to-end loop to be able to subscribe to things you care about, get meaningful updates from them, and take action right within the wallet is the entire loop that's going to drive all the retention And value for this space. And it's totally possible today. And there was a tweet last week from Snapshot. So the idea of actually hitting the alerts button on Snapshot, getting an alert inside Coinbase Wallet, clicking on it, being able to vote on any DAO governance I want to vote on with any of the applications that are on there from ENS, et cetera, and never have to leave Coinbase Wallet or go back to the web and log in with Wallet, et cetera. That experience is totally possible today. And I think as more and more wallets adopt XMTP and we become the ubiquitous protocol. The people who are there today experimenting on how do I build my list, how do I do outreach, what's the best way, how do I get people to mint, how do I get people to remint, how do I get creators to actually broadcast and do outreach to their entire audiences? This is what's missing. Everyone's missing how to build relationships in Web3, and it's actually possible, and it hasn't been possible even 6 months ago. But don't miss out on the opportunity to jump in and start doing it because it's just going to become more and more powerful. And It's already that powerful today.

Okay. So I run biz dev for PoolTogether or for the software company that supports the PoolTogether protocol. And I've found it's just so difficult to get PoolTogether in wallets, right? It's basically like a link in the dApp browser, but portals.fi has been released, or it's basically Zaps from Zapper. And it, what it does is it actually brings the PoolTogether protocol to the swap function. And when you're talking about this with messaging and notifications, and I saw the tweet about somebody who, you know, you mentioned this earlier, is just, you can message someone, check that you're actually sending them the money or sending them tokens, and then go and commit the action. But I'm loving this, like, in-app, like, I would love to do that stuff within the chat itself. Right? Like, and Apple has this with their SMS or with their iMessages, where it'll know that I'm trying to do something like create an event or send money, and it'll drop these activities that I can do right from the message. Anyway, so I'm really looking forward to like getting away from the dApp browser and actually doing this stuff within the messaging could be cool. But again, that's like, that's for builders to build. You dropped the Onchain Summer link in here just for what you were talking about, Shane.

Totally. And when you go there, you just click the subscribe button. The little QR code pops up. It literally drops right into the, whatever app you want to use, Converse, Coinbase Wallet, et cetera. And now, You as the brand have the direct channel to the consumer to now send notifications, do customer support, drive updates, and get people to mint or do on-chain actions right from within the wallet by you actually sending them a message to do that. And the ability for you as a brand or a creator to reach the wallet is now possible. And this is the experience I'm talking about where you can subscribe. You could add this to your website today and you can drive a channel right into the Coinbase wallet or any of the other wallets and inboxes on XMTP.

Well, Shane, thanks so much for joining me and the Pull Together community for the Pull Together community podcast. And, you know, we're— other BB, we got our subdomain directory going. It's got little chat bubbles so we can message each other. And I'm looking forward to more and more being off Telegram and doing more with XMTP with my BD peeps.

Awesome. As I'm building, it's a verified channel. It's a better channel. It's not exposed to all the scams of that yet. And you know, you should send me a message, chainmac.eth. I'm available on XMTP anytime. I use Converse and Coinbase Wallet and all of them for, you know, each one for different things they're great at, but I'm reachable on any of them. So please send me a message and say hello.

Thanks for helping us build with this messaging. This is awesome. All right.

All right. Thank you. Have a good day.

Take care, man. Cheers. Bye. Thanks for listening to the PoolTogether Community Podcast. You can visit pooltogether.com to deposit, and we'd love to hear what you thought about today's episode. So visit the PoolTogether Discord and let us know.