Bob Moesta - The Bedrock Skills of Entrepreneurs, Innovators, and Sales Professionals with Bob Moesta

Selling with authenticity.

It's building that relationship because you want to make that impact. It can make you happy.

Elevate others around you. Welcome to the Selling from the Heart podcast. Your home for authentic, effective and socially integrated sales strategies to help you master.

The art of selling.

Join your co hosts, Larry Levine and Daryl Amy, along with some of the world's best sales thought leaders and practitioners as we explore ways to help you grow your sales.

Hello and welcome back to the Selling from the Heart podcast. Your co host, Daryl Amy, here today with Larry Levine. What's going on, Larry?

Another day in Selling from the Heart paradise. Dude, we're knocking. We are literally knocking on the door of 2023.

It's time to get it done. We gotta finish out strong this year, cheering everybody on out there in the Selling from the Heart world. And by the way, if you're new to the Selling from the Heart podcast, welcome. You've joined a growing community of sales professionals that are dedicated to being genuine, being authentic, adding real value. We call it Selling from the Heart. And we have got an incredible conversation lined up with Selling from the Heart podcast alumni. An all around great guy, innovator Bob Mesta himself. Stay tuned. You're going to love this conversation, Larry. This is the time of year when we show gratitude. This is the time when we join community. And the Selling from the Heart Insiders group is one of the things I am most thankful for as I look back over this past year. This community of sales professionals and leaders is just amazing.

Yeah, you know, here's the thing. It's about camaraderie. It's about fellowship, used gratitude and appreciation. We do this every single week inside our community here at Selling from the Heart Insiders Group. Come check us out. We meet every Friday. We bring in thought leaders. We do group coaching and mastermind. More importantly, this is a place where you grab an accountability partner and this accountability partner is going to help you succeed and do better business throughout the year.

Yeah. So if that sounds awesome and it is, you want to join us, go to selling from the heart.net free-pass that's selling from the Heart free dotnet free pass. It's scrolling across the bottom of the screen if you're watching on video. And what that's going to do is it's going to give you a free pass to our next up close and personal where we get to hang out with amazing thought leaders, friends at Selling from the Heart and champions for authenticity in the sales world. You're going to love it. Sellingfromtheheart.net free pass. Well, when you think about sales, you think about being entrepreneurial. And when you think about entrepreneurial, you think about innovation. And when you think about innovation, you think about our guest today, Bob Mesta, our good friend. What's going on, Bob? Welcome back to this guys podcast.

Thanks for having me back. A lot going on, too much going on. Like this is one of those things where you're telling me this 20, 23. I'm like, not yet. There's still a lot to get done.

Hey Bob, we're knocking, we're knocking on the door. But it just seems like, you know what, the older we get does it. Maybe it's just me, it just accelerates. But it's, it, it's been the same number of time, it's been the same number of hours, but it just seems to accelerate the older we get.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of amazing. And, and you start to realize, like at some point you've got to be very, very precious with your time because at some point, you know, 45 minutes in a line for a chick fil a is a long time to wait. Oh, stop it.

Just so you all know, we had a little, we had a little talk before we started the podcast. I admit I won't wait online 45 minutes for an in n out, but I did wait online 45 minutes at chick fil a a but never mind. Topic of another conversation.

But, but the thing is, is, is to your, to your point, as time starts to accelerate as we, as we get older and part of it is to realize like, because we have so many interests and part of is to start to prioritize those interests and, and really kind of focus on what you want to accomplish. It's one of the reasons why I have a, I think we've talked about a death day, right? It's like I have so many day. I have a 18, 37 days left. And as I count my days down, it's like, okay, what did I accomplish in the next 50 days or last 50 days? And it's how I'm able to kind of crank out books and you know, make time for these podcasts, do all this kind of stuff because, you know, I measure my life by the number of people I help.

I love it when Amazing, amazing book. Measure your life. Demand side sales is one of my all time favorite books. We've talked about that on the podcast. And you got to work with Clay Christensen, the thought leader of Thought leaders, innovator of innovators yes. And now you're here with a new book we're going to talk about today. But before we do, Bob, you know the question that every guest on the Selling from the Heart podcast answers? What does it mean to you, to self in the heart?

Selling from the heart is actually pretty easy because you start to think about, you have to think about the people you're selling to and basically understand what progress they're trying to make. And ultimately it's about actually helping them make progress, whether your product fits or not. Right. Because at some point in time the notion is, is if you sell somebody something they don't need, that's not going to go over well. And ultimately by you helping to frame how your product fits into their lives is just way, way, way better. And so it stop selling and start helping people make progress.

Oh, it's so good. Daryl, was that word for word the last time Bob was on the podcast? It's going to be word for word.

What I said last time. I can't, I can't guarantee that, but I can guarantee it's pretty close to that because that's how, that's how I'm wired, man.

That's right. I, I think it's so powerful. And, and if you look at this, where we are right now and this new book you've put out, Learning to Build the five Bedrock Skills of Innovators and Entrepreneurs. Tell us about the origins of this book and why salespeople are saying, this should have been a sales book. This is the book every sales professional should read.

So what's interesting is, so my youngest graduated from college and she's moved off to California. She's a data analyst. Yeah, data analyst out in California. And one of the things that we did is we started to clean out the attic. And in my attic I have, it's like 847 volumes of notebooks from when I was 18 all the way to today. And so everyone goes into a special shelf and I've got this big shelves full of them. And I'm like, okay, like we need to get the dumpster in here and kind of throw these out. Like, I'm done with it. My wife goes, no, no, no, no, before you do that, you should go through each one one more time. And so as I went through it, I'm like, I start to realize, like, okay, boy, I real was an 18 year old, dyslexic, illiterate kid who should have been a baggage handler at the airport. And these people I have worked with poured their knowledge and energy into me as a vessel to teach me how to actually go innovate on over, you know, thousands of products. And so part of this was really about paying, paying it forward for the people as this vessel of what did I learn along the way and of the people I worked with who demonstrates these skills. And so I started to kind of just do post its and push them around. And I had eight, and then I had three, and then I had seven. And finally I agreed, like, okay, there's five skills that most people don't talk about as what entrepreneurs and innovators need to do. And at the same time, it's the combination of them that make it so powerful. And so it's these five skills that I'll say my core mentors of Dr. Willie Moore, Dr. Genichi Taguchi, Dr. Deming, and then Clay Christensen. The four of them kind of, I would say, put in 80% of the knowledge that I have. And I've worked with so many other people who've helped me along the way. But at the same time, it's time to, you know, pay it forward. And so that's the real premise of the book.

Oh, this is great. So we just have to ask, can. Can you peel back some of this? I'm just. You got to peel back with some of these five skills are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so the, so the, the first skill is, is really, I call it empathetic perspective. Really good innovators and entrepreneurs can see things from multiple people's perspectives simultaneously, and they see it almost unemotionally connected to it. So, like, this is how the finance guy is going to look at it. This is how, you know, the customer is going to look at it. This is how the supply chain is going to look at it. And they're able to look at things across different almost verticals and see it from different people's perspective and actually see problems before they happen because they can empathetically understand where people are coming from. And the interesting part is, if you want to learn this skill, the one place you learn it is in theater or in improv. It's really an art, right? But at the same time, the fact is, this is a skill that I, like, I learned it technically. How do I look at something as a molecule? How do I look at something as a set of things? How do I look at things from a very macro view? How do I look at it from a micro view? All those kinds of things. As you start to realize this is a very important, important, you know, skill that that innovators and entrepreneurs have and, and salespeople, to be honest, they're really good at empathetic perspective. Some of them are. And if you're not, that's probably one thing you need to work on.

Well, I'm just gonna say this isn't relevant to sales at all. Now, the empathetic perspective is the ball game. And yeah, I'm curious. Like, let's just camp here for just a moment. Like, how do you grow in your ability to have an empathetic perspective?

So, first of all, it starts with caring about other people and to realize when you're in the middle of an argument, right? And you might be right, you might be wrong, but the truth is somewhere in between. But it's. How do you actually flip across the aisle and see it from their perspective? How do you actually learn how to actually kind of calm yourself and be able to look through their eyes and see what they see and hear what they hear and start to be curious about those different perspectives? And so, to be honest, it's a very important thing to actually just learn. What's it like? Like, when you plan a meal, you got to think about, like, okay, what are the kids going to eat? Like, who's going to eat this? What day are we going to have it? You have to start to put yourself through the process and look at it from different people's perspective as you do this. So we all have this skill now. It's just that innovators and entrepreneurs have the skill at a volume 10 where most people have it at a one or a two. And salespeople have this, you know, really good salespeople have this at a 10 as well. And so it's just. But it's, it's. It's one part of the puzzle that you have to have. Just having the empathetic perspective doesn't help you build, but you got to have it in order to figure out what to build.

I think, I think this is so important, guys. Especially now when there's multiple decision makers, multiple influencers sitting there at that business table, whether that be face to face or virtual, you have to bring this core skill to the forefront.

Yeah, well, this is the other part is I try to teach people to say, like, like in the sales side, it's like, how do you actually think about who's the person taking the personal risk? Yeah, right. I think of there's three, three kinds of resources. There's time, knowledge, and money. And it's like, who's putting their time in to make this change, because most people don't want to change, and then ultimately, who are the people who can stop it? Where's the friction? And so ultimately, being able to understand where people sit and why they want this to happen or why they don't want it to happen actually then enables you to then come up with solutions to actually help everybody make progress.

Love it. Love it. All right. Well, empathetic perspective is number one.

What number two is uncovering demand. And this is the fact that they realize that, you know, the number one lie I was told as a. As an engineer was build it, and they will come. And it's just a lie. It just doesn't happen. It's not true.

Right.

So part of this is to actually understand the fact that. That at some point in time, the thing that creates demand is a struggling moment, and to understand where people struggle, and that our job as innovators and entrepreneurs and as salespeople is to uncover demand. Where are they struggling, and where do they want to be better at? And how do I actually help them make that journey from where they are to where they want to go? And so, ultimately, it's not about building product. It's about uncovering demand and realizing that struggling moments. I've been studying them for 40 years, and I would say that is. That is probably the single greatest thing that's made me successful is not by trying to build something that's cool, but build something that actually fits into people's lives.

Hey, Bob, I'm just curious as I'm listening to what you're saying, first word that pops in my head, and I just. I'd just be curious on your thoughts of this is curiosity. Where does curiosity play in this?

Yeah, I think so. Curiosity is actually in the third skill. But I. But I would say that being curious or being open, and I would say curious and humble go together. Right? So one of the things that. Being dyslexic, I realized that one of the greatest gifts I ever got, that I would never wish upon my children.

But.

But it humbled me to realize that, I don't know, there's way more unknown than there is known, and never forget it. That's what Dr. Taguchi would always tell me, right? So, like, don't. Don't think, you know, and don't try to form your own hypotheses. Go. Go let the engine tell you what the best engine is. Go test it. Go build it. Right? And so part of this is curiosity is. Is cut. Is coupled with the fact that you got to be Humble. And you have to realize you don't know. Right. So that's really what that's about.

Beautiful.

The third skill, the third skill is causal structures. It's this obsession with how things work. This is where that curiosity comes in. Because I think this part is what's really critical here is being able to understand the difference between correlation and causation. It's the understanding of, not that life is not probabilities, but it's what I call the n of 1. What causes 1 person to buy your product? How do we learn from that process of how they bought it? To say, how would the next person buy the product? And how do we see patterns of causation in that those things? And so part of it is understanding how things work is such an essential skill that most people like they look by, it's like, oh, it's a black box. I don't need to know. I'm like, no, you need to know. So really good entrepreneurs and innovators have this obsession about understanding cause and effect and how things work. Whether it's how people work, whether it's how software works, whether it's how mechanics work, how the world works. It's just this constant curiosity of like, how. Why is that? You know, asking why a thousand times. Right.

I love it. Yeah. One of the things I've been a champion for that just happens so rarely in the sales world is an after action report or a deal analysis. Like when you win a deal, why did you win it? Let's, let's peel that back and let's, let's dig deep and figure that out. And when you lose too, right?

Well, I think, I think it's both, but I think you need to see it from two perspectives. You, you need to actually talk to the customer why you lost the deal. And what I would say is talk to the customer why you won the deal. Because it's like the tip of the iceberg. What you see and what the reality is is probably almost you only see a half of the story. So how do you actually see the real part of the story, the emotional part, which they didn't reveal to you at the time. And so we talk about doing postmortems and how do we do a postmortem of each sale so we can actually learn about the forces and the pushes and the trade offs that people are willing to make. And so understanding the cause, what caused them not to bias, what caused them to bias. And asking it that way allows us to. Again, Deming would always say that that 85% of all problems are system problems, not people problems. And so ultimately we have to improve the system. We have to understand the causation.

And I want, I just, I want, I want to go back to this. I love this deal analysis. You know, why you won the deal, but why you lost. Speak to the why you lost for a moment. Because I, I think this is critical because you're going to get some salespeople out there, not all. And you're going to get some sales leaders, not all. That said, we really just can't get the truth from them on why they really didn't buy from us. Walk down that whole rabbit.

So this is where, where to be honest, there's a setup. You have to have one is I, I have to make sure they bought something else. Right. The, the 60. Of all deals that you, that you don't get, people don't act on.

Right.

And so they don't. It's like 40% is where they choose. And they might not choose you, but you have to realize a lot of times it's. They, they don't pick because they can't actually choose. And that's actually gets to the fourth skill, which we'll get to. But this whole notion of understanding kind of why they did it and what they did and how did they make decision or where they got stuck is really, really important. And so I spend, you know, probably a third of my time interviewing deals that, that we lost or that why people fired this product and went to that. Why do people leave AT&T to go to Verizon? Or why do people leave Verizon to go to at&t? And you start to realize there's again, patterns in all this. And so part of it is being able to understand is when somebody's leaving you. Right. They're still making progress. So what progress were they making by leaving you? And so understanding that will then help you understand how you have to improve your product.

I love it. I love it. What so much to unpack on that one right there. I think this. Yeah. If you're listening, put a highlighter on that one. Because going back and really understanding. Understanding that is, Is so critical. Oh, well, let's keep going though. This is great.

So we got two more. We got limited time. I know that. So.

Oh, it's so such a great conversation.

The fourth one is what I call prototyping to learn. Most people prototype to verify. Right. They know the answer. It's like I need to prove the answer to somebody else. But the reality is Again, I go back to, there's way more unknown than there is known. And so we need to actually prototype to figure out how things break, how things work, how things don't do it. And so a lot of times we usually only build one thing at a time. Like we do AB testing. I was taught that that's the most inefficient, ineffective way in which to test anything yet. That's what everybody's doing.

Okay.

And you start to realize that people need contrast to create meaning. And so part of it is I can't tell you what I want, but I can say it's more like this and less like that. And so if I give you a set of things, I can pull it out. So this relates to sales in the context of nine times out of 10, we give people one proposal and what happens is they have to actually go find another proposal to have contrast so they can create meaning from it.

Right.

And so what I do is I actually always give them three proposals. We can do it this way really fast, but it's going to not have this. We can do it really thorough and do it this, but it's going to take a long time and a lot of money. Or we can do this third way. But by giving them contrast, they can eliminate fast and then they can actually make the trade offs to pick one. But most the reason why people can't choose is because they don't have enough contrast. And the way that we learn and the way I learn is through basically having different things as opposed to similar things.

I love the phrase eliminate fast. Just think about that for a moment. Eliminate fast.

So here's the funny part is if you read Dan Aurelia's stuff, he basically talks about, most people don't pick what they want. They eliminate meaning. They'll walk in and they'll say, okay, here's three options. Oh, this one's out for sure. And then there's two left. And the two that are left, they don't compare to each other. They compare the one that's out because they made a decision about it, they're confident about it, about it. And so they actually put the one that's closest to the one that's out. And so they eliminate to get to the one that's, that's in. That's how most people make decisions.

Wow. All right, this is great. Bob, drumroll. I'm on the edge. Number five, the grand finale.

Yeah, the fifth one is actually the, the hardest one of all, but it's actually the most important of all. And it's identifying and managing trade offs. You can't do it at all. You can't put, you know, 10 pounds of into a five pound bag. You know, you're way better off with a kick ass half than a half asshole. And so really good entrepreneurs, really good entrepreneurs know how to make these trade offs and so do customers. Customers have to make them all the time. And so it enable them to make the trade offs because what happens is they come back with this ideal state. It's like yeah, you can do this or you can do that, but you can't have both. So which one do you want? And so helping people understand the trade offs and it's ultimately about learning to say no and what to say no to. And so you start to realize that no is actually way easier to say than yes in some cases. And so how do we actually understand what to say no to? And then ultimately how do we figure out what to do next?

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Bob, I'm going to make a recommendation and that is that you keep this learning to build book which is brilliant and everyone's going to want to buy it and then you copy and paste and flip the COVID and say Learning to sell gave us a master class on sales. And this is such, this mindset that we're talking about here. Salespeople, I've said this from the beginning, are entrepreneurs. I mean if you have accepted a sales role, you're an entrepreneur, you de risked it a little bit. But the reality is this mindset of an entrepreneur is at the heart of sales. It's also at the heart of who you're selling to. That's right, when you're in the B2B space in specifically and, and this. You know, I'm curious if you were coaching a young sales professional is just getting started in sales and you said, hey, this is how you need to see the world or this is what you need to do. What would you tell that aspiring professional?

First thing I would do is I would literally say what are you selling? And I would say go ask somebody, go, go find five sales that happened last year and go talk to those people to figure out what caused them to say today's the day they bought your product and how it worked out. And focus on the language they use. Don't focus on your product, focus on their context, their outcome and the language that they use around it. Because at some point in time our product is actually not relevant. It's the outcomes that they want. And we have to actually ultimately connect our features and benefits to their outcomes. Right. And we have to talk about our, our, our, you know, our features and benefits to their context. Why does this fit in this context? But the more you can understand about their world, the better off you're going to be to be able to figure out how to help them make progress.

See, and here's what's so beautiful about what you just said, Bob, is a. It's the truth. But just think about this. And this is the sad part of this. It's the complete polar opposite of how many are trained. Right?

Right.

It's the product. Right.

It's all the product in their process. Where are they?

Product. It's the product and all of this. And so you get these salespeople who are highly robotic and then that's what they're talking about. And they have a very slim understanding of what are the outcomes of all this and how does this fit into the scheme of that company.

Yeah, but I have a theory on that. I think that salespeople have been turned into order takers by marketing and finance because they think it's about, basically, we should know exactly what it is. We, we talk about the total addressable market of who's available. But ultimately people have to have struggling moments. So it's like, even though the total addressable market might be 10,000 people, how many people are struggling with CRM today?

Right.

And so you start to realize that these are all very, very different. And so again, it gets back to there's way more unknown than known, but the people in marketing and marketing and finance believe that this should all be a managed process to a T. And the reality is we have to actually account for the variation and the unknowns, and that's what we're not doing. And so I think the fact is really good salespeople know how to actually navigate the unknowns and to discover the unknowns. But the reality is, is most salespeople are taught the product. They're taught the process, they're taught the demo, they're taught the, like, it's a, like, it's very mechanical. And as you guys know, selling or buying is emotional. It's not, it's not functional. It's very emotional for people. It's all risk for them.

Yeah, well, and this is, you know, as we're wrapping up, I think this is a great moment just to bring in a concept that is so vital for sales professionals and sales leaders to understand. And that is people don't buy your product or service, they hire it for a job to Be done. Can you unpack jobs to be done theory for a minute? Because I think this is the heartbeat of this whole thing.

Yeah. So this is. This is the whole thing. This is really the foundational, which is. I realized that we are creatures of habit, and we will do the same thing over and over and over again. And ultimately, we only change when we have a struggling moment. And so the struggling moment is the seed for all innovation. And once we struggle, then we have to figure out how to find what to do next. And so that is jobs to be done. Or people don't buy things. They hire them to make progress in their life. And so what it is, is I'm not trying to talk to people who ran out of Tide and want to buy more Tide. I want to talk to people who, you know, are using Tide and say, oh, gosh, this doesn't get my clothes clean. I need to buy something else. How do you find something else? Innovation is about actually finding the new next way. And so ultimately, it's also about sales. That's why they're so. They're actually very parallel. But. But. But they're. But they're. They're different sets of disciplines at the end of the day. But I think that jobs to be done is that. That core for me, that whether as it. Whether I'm an innovator or whether I've run a sales organization or when I've been, you know, CEO, I've used that whole premise of how do we help our customers make progress? And ultimately, how do I make sure that everybody in the organization understands the language the customer's using so they don't have to learn our language?

I love it. I love it.

Hey, I want to go back. I just. I just have to go back to this because I'm just. I'm deeply listening to what you're just saying, and I'm sitting here thinking, you know, the struggling part of this. By the way, I. I love what you were saying. Weave this in.

How would.

How would a salesperson out there weave in this word? Struggling to really unpack in a conversation with, say, there's. I'll just set the stage. But just to say there's a few people sitting around this table face to face or virtual. You got some decision makers, some influencers, and you really want to take this to the next level and apply and really understand what are they struggling with? How would somebody roll this out in a way that gets somebody to open up and say, hey, here's what we're really struggling, struggling on with right now.

So. So this is. I have a. Like, a really good example. I was interviewing a customer in front of the board. The what's the executive leadership team, right? And in the middle of it, when it got done, the head of. The head of sales, the chief revenue officer, basically stood up and said, like, is there anything else we can do for you? And the person I was talking to basically sat there and I did this one, two. I said, no. They looked at me and he said, why are you saying. And I'm like, he's making it up. If he can't come up with something in five minutes, he doesn't actually know how to connect what you do to what his problems are. What's going on? Let me help you rephrase the question. What are the three biggest things you're struggling with in your organization that irrelevant or whether we can help or not? Like, you need to solve this year. And next thing you know, it turns out like, oh, well, you know what? We have a cyber security thing that does this and this and this. And all of a sudden they're like, oh, yeah, we can solve that. And then it's like, oh, yeah. And so you start to realize when you ask the question of how can we help? It's a really hard question. I have to know what you do. I have to know what my problem is. I have to be able to match it all up, right? And so it's a horrible question. And so the way you start this is to be honest. Like, right now I'm studying why people leave one company to go to another. And it simply started by, like, tell me about work and what are you struggling with? And next thing you know, I can actually tell you when somebody's going to be looking for a new job, right? And so part of this is to actually use this to sit around with these people and go, like, look, what are the three things that you really need to solve this year? Right? What's. Like, what. What are the three things that you're struggling with that if you don't solve, you're going to be in trouble?

Bingo.

Right?

Solid gold.

So here's the thing. Here's the thing is I want to leave. I prepared this one thing question that you guys weren't going to be prepared to ask me, but I want to talk about, which is go for it. I love the idea of a recession. I think we should be like, everybody should be leaning into the recession. I don't understand why everybody's so apprehensive. Because at some point in time. You have to realize the recession is where we all have to change behavior. Everybody's going to have new struggling moments. We won't be able to sell what we used to sell, but that's okay. We're used to switching. So how do we actually re pivot to understand what people really are struggling with? So we can actually then reframe our product to help them make that profit progress? Right? Most entrepreneurs start in a recession. Most new businesses start in a recession. Most wealth transfer is created in a recession. So for me, a recession is actually the greatest opportunity for us to actually change the world as opposed to when times are good.

I absolutely love it.

I've been, I've been holding that one back. I'm very passionate about this. And everybody's like, oh, my God, I'm so worried about the recession. Like, yeah, what are we going to do?

Finally? Finally. We've been waiting 10 years for this year.

Like, let's be clear. Think of all the stupid stuff we had when it was. When times were good. I mean, we, like, it just got crazy. And now we actually can start to do things that are just a little bit different. And now we actually know how to actually cut our products back. We know how to actually lean or lean the organization down a little bit. Like, how do we focus? It's so such a great opportunity. And I think that most people dread it. And I feel like going into it with a positive attitude and real, like, like, this is like my seventh recession. And I'm like, I'm ready for it, man. Like, my first one, I was like, everybody else, oh, my God, when is this gonna end? This is horrible. This is good. But now I realize it's just awesome. It's just an awesome time.

I love it. Yeah, it's so funny. You hear, you hear that line. I, I refuse to participate in the recession. Why don't you just dive into it? Like.

Yeah, so here's the thing is where are the opportunities, right? What's going to happen as, as things get tighter, as things go thing. What. What's going to start to grow? What's not going to grow? Right? And you start to realize that there's a lot of things that, that. How is your, like, think about causation? What's. As the recession goes, what are people going to do less of, which means they have more time is what are they going to do more of?

That's right.

And so you have to start to reframe the world. And at this, at this point, what you're going to see is people are going to want to reduce costs, they're going to want more efficiencies, they're going to want more ways in which. Because let's be clear, when we lay people off, the work doesn't go away.

Nope.

There's just as much work.

That's right. Absolutely. So much opportunity right now.

So much opportunity.

I love your perspective. I'm so thankful you came to share time with us.

I'm so happy you invited me back. I have to write another book to get back on.

I know.

He doesn't have to cover. No, he can come. But, hey, Mesta can come on anytime he wants.

You are.

So I was thinking about. I'd love to pop into your Friday. So if. If you. If you can get me away to pop in. Totally. Like, that'd be huge.

Like, it's gonna be awesome.

I just. I just don't want it, like, just. I'm just gonna pop in and then I'll just, you know, when. When it's right, I'll raise my hand and talk.

I mean, I think you'll be a guest of honor. Hey, Bob, thank you so much. In addition to hitting pause right now, going to Amazon, buying Demand Side Sales 101, if you don't have that already, you gotta get that. When you also buy your copy of Learning to Build, which this is, should be called Learning to Sell, you could just cross that out on the COVID and write.

I think you should do that with a Sharpie and say Learning to Sell. Just.

I may do that when I get my copy.

Yeah.

The next one is Learning to Sell and. And that, you know, and all of that. How can people get more of Bob Nest.

Yeah, so. So LinkedIn is the best place where I'm kind of talking about all the latest stuff. And then I. I started a podcast last spring where it's me and my business partner for 17 years who built. We built thousands of products together. And it's us. You're like a fly in the wall. And we literally talk about topics like, you know, how do people make decisions? Or what is jobs to be done? Or. And it's just like us kind of having a rap session. It's about 30 minutes long, and it's just. And we take questions from people and kind of turn it into a podcast where we riff a little bit, we take give an example, and then we give you homework to force you to think a bit called the circuit breaker. So it's like, let's flip the circuit, reset, rest, relax, and recharge.

I love it. Well, Bob, thank you so much for all of your work. Thank you for your perspective. Thanks for sharing time today and thank you for being a selling from the heart champion. We appreciate you.

Thanks for having me on. I can't wait to come back.

Awesome. Awesome. What an incredible.

I knew this is going to be good.

Every time you hang out with Bob, it is a circuit breaker moment. You feel like, you know this. The concepts that we talked about here today are so pivotal and I love that perspective that we ended on. Recession equals opportunity. Let's, you know, let's get positive about this. Let's be, let's, let's lean in, let's figure things out. Let's be beacons of hope in the middle of all of this and let's go figure out what problems need to be solved, what jobs need to be done. And let's, let's, let's figure this out together.

Yeah. And it's why, you know, in selling from the heart, Darrell, I always write, I've, I've written and I just put my foot on the gas on this one. There's difference between sales reps and sales professionals.

That's right.

What Bob just shared is what all the sales professionals do. So think about as we start rolling into 2023, take those five skills and double down on those.

Absolutely. Well, hey, thank you to everybody for joining us today. If you want to be a part of this conversation and hang out with guys like Bob Messi, you heard it here. He's our up close and personal with the insiders group. That's going to be a blast. I can't wait for that. If you want to join up close and personal, go to selling from the heart.net free-pass. That's selling from the heart.net free- pass. You can get, you can get a ticket. Come hang out with Bob and us. It's going to be amazing. Hey, this is an exciting time of year. Thank you to everybody who is liking sharing and most of all subscribing on YouTube, our latest platform. This is helping us spread the message of authenticity across the sales profession. And Larry, I'm so excited as we head through into the holidays and on into the new year. I'm excited for all that's ahead. We got some exciting announcements here coming up very, very shortly, so make sure to stay tuned because you're not going to want to miss what's coming up.

No, you don't want to miss. There's going to be some good stuff happening just right around the corner. Can't say yet. Right around the corner.

That's right. Well, until next time. Keep being genuine, keep being authentic. Keep adding real value. Learn to build, and most of all, sell from the heart.