Avoiding Rookie Investing Mistakes feat. Steve Suh

Getting cash flow on a monthly or quarterly basis is definitely very, very important when you invest in syndications. You're de-risking your money. Every dollar you get back, you're actually decreasing your risk in that investment. So it might be $50,000 you're putting in. If you get $20 back the first month and then $30 the next month, you're de-risking that investment each time.

What I tell a lot of people is when they're just getting started, people would have, say, liquidity event, they sell a business, they have a ton of cash they're trying to deploy. My advice is always invest it as slowly as humanly possible because what you'll end up finding is a lot of deals that you do at first, you may not do a couple years down the road. You look back with hindsight and more experience.

Don't hurry into a deal. And sponsors will say, oh, this is the greatest deal I've seen. A lot of that is marketing, unfortunately. Investing in boring asset classes such as multifamily and self-storage, very important for anybody in any stage in their investment career.

Welcome back to the Invest Like a Billionaire show. Super excited to have Steve Su on today. Steve is an ophthalmologist. He's also one of the founding members of Left Left Field Investors, which is a really cool group that he's going to share more about that we've had the privilege of getting to attend some of their events and seeing the amazing growth that they've had of this private limited partner investor group. Super excited to bring Steve on because he's recently consolidated some of his thoughts on investing over the past several years and put together a really nice quick read, which we're going to link to in the comments here, called Avoiding Rookie Errors as a Left Field Investor: 20 Lessons Learned from 14 Years of Passive Investing in Private Syndications. So this is invaluable, right? Because a lot of people that are coming up to speed on alternative investments, investing in private syndications and funds, etc., may not be investing for as long as Steve has. And there's a lot of things that you can learn from people like Steve that have been doing it for a while and hopefully save you some heartburn, give you some shortcuts.

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So with that long-winded intro, Steve, Thanks so much for coming on the show and super excited to dive in.

It's an honor to be on your show. Thanks a lot for inviting me, Ben.

Yeah, well, give the listeners a little bit of background on you and also your participation in the Left Field Investor Group and kind of how that kind of came to be. So give us a little background.

So I started investing in real estate syndications about, well, now 15 years, I guess. And that first foray was not a very positive one. I invested in some oil and gas syndications back then and I did make a— made just a little bit of money. But the communications and the, the returns were kind of dwindling as time went on after a year or two. And so I was actually in 4 or excuse me, 5 different syndications with the same oil and gas people and Ultimately ended up losing all my money because the— I guess it was just a— it ended up being a Ponzi scheme. So I got trapped in that, didn't know how to vet sponsors, didn't know how to really do background checks on people. So I ended up learning a big lesson from that. So got into some active investing, did own 3 small rentals around Ohio where I live— lived, and then didn't really enjoy being— enjoyed being a landlord. I did have property management, but I felt like I was being constantly bombarded by questions from them. And as you said, I'm a busy ophthalmologist and working full-time still. So I just felt like this is not the way for me to go. So I kept looking into syndications more and more and then got into some more syndications and deals and 2015, 2016 timeframe and learned some lessons from those as well.

They—

those were more development deals. I still have yet to really see any return from those investments. But in the latter half of my syndication career, I've been doing a lot better with my investments and learned a heck of a lot of lessons. And along the way, I ran into some other passive investors, namely Jim Pfeiffer, and he He, along with Sean Donnelly and Chad Ackerman and Ryan Steig, we all started a group called Left Field Investors back in 2020 during COVID We met on Zoom even though it was supposed to be a live local meetup. But March of 2020 is when the pandemic hit and we weren't allowed to meet. So Zoom allowed us to meet virtually. And so we've been— we met monthly for a few years and then now we have an active forum and we have a lot of networking events and a lot of education on our website. So we, we are a group of a community of passive investors who are like-minded, and we, we try to teach each other what we've learned about other sponsors and deals and that kind of thing. So it's an invaluable resource for people who are interested in passively investing in syndications.

That's awesome. Yeah, we've had Jim Pfeiffer on the podcast a couple of years back, and it was so fun to hear the genesis story because it sounded like, hey, let's just get together in a local meetup group. These guys were all kind of in the same geography, right? And well, we have to now shift it to Zoom, you know, by default because of the pandemic. And now it's, you know, blown up into a pretty big organization. How many, how many active members do you guys have right now?

We have well over 2,000 members right now.

Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. And I love what you guys are doing is really pioneering a lot of just the passive investor education, which we're obviously very passionate about as well, and really helping people get a leg up. Right. Because a lot of, a lot of the intrigue of the private alternative syndication, private investments world, you know, attracts a lot of people, but it also attracts, like you said, rookies using the terminology from your book. And it can be hard if you have to go it alone to figure out, you know, where do I start? How do I do due diligence? Never heard of due diligence. And what should be my approach to investing? And, you know, I've highlighted a couple of lessons in your book. You put these just simple 20 lessons together. But the one of the ones that it's kind of jumping out to me based on your past experiences, talk about investing in boring. Right, because it sounds like from some of your first investments, if you're going after oil and gas and you're going after development deals, you're obviously chasing higher returns. And I see this happen a lot with investors where they see a 20 or 30%, you know, IRR or return on investment. And those, you know, are not all created equal with, you know, maybe more boring types of returns. And we talk about how your approach is maybe shifted a little bit from going after high-risk, high-return and maybe shifting to more boring, having more, you know, portfolio approach to your investing.

Right. Yeah, I did chase that shiny object early on in my first, probably third of my syndication investing. I mean, when I, when I say development deals, these are actually some of them were resort deals in international territory. So I really got really exotic on those and did a coffee farm in Panama, which I'm sure will ultimately do fine. But I haven't seen anything in— I think it's been 6 or 7 years since I've invested in that one. But yeah, investing in boring, a lot of people use this term, means simply going after the bread and butter of real estate, commercial real estate, such as multifamily or self-storage, mobile home parks, that kind of thing. And yeah, so you can get certainly great upside with development deals, but you also don't cash flow for several years. So it could even be a development deal in multifamily, for example, in say Austin, but you may not see any return on your money for 2 or 3 years. And in my opinion, that's a heck of a lot more riskier than getting a multifamily, say, in Dallas and doing their deal because it's already established. They may have 80% occupancy or more at the time. So, you know, cash— getting cash flow on a monthly or quarterly basis is definitely very, very important when you invest in syndications because you're de-risking your money. Every dollar you get back, you're actually decreasing your risk in that investment. So it might be $50,000 you're putting in. If you get $20 back the first month and then $30 the next month, you're de-risking that investment each time. With a development deal, for example, you may not see anything for 2 or 3 years, like I said. And then if they do a good job and finish up, then yeah, you may get some great upside at the end, but that's a heck of a lot more risk. And at this point and stage of my life, I don't want to be into too many risky asset classes. And I think that really should go for, for anybody really at any stage because I mean, unless you're making tons of money, I don't think you should be risking your money in these kinds of deals because it's kind of like playing in the stock market. You don't know what's going to happen next because things can happen. A recession can hit. I've seen development deals stop because of the past recession. So So I think investing in boring asset classes such as multifamily and self-storage and those kinds of things are very important for anybody at any stage in their investment career.

Yeah, that's absolutely, absolutely agree on that. And your very first lesson you highlight here is invest in yourself before investing in syndications. Talk about what you mean by that and why that's important.

Yeah, I think I jumped into those syndications, the oil and gas play, before I really even knew anything about it. I tried to learn things online. But yeah, you need to really educate yourself. Just like if you were to go pick individual stocks, you really have to educate yourself about the business, each, each of the businesses that you are investing in. So spend a lot of time and money and don't be in a hurry when you invest in syndications. You have to really learn. There's plenty, plenty of resources online. Our website has plenty of resources. You learn and then join a community. I think that's really important to be part of. A community like ours because you can learn so much from other investors who've been out there for— like myself, been out there for 15 years. There's others been out there for maybe 5 or 10 years, but that's certainly better than someone who's never done a single syndication investment. So I think it's extremely important to take the time, invest in yourself, and don't be in a hurry to invest in syndications because there's always going to be deals out there. You know, it's out there every time you get one of these email announcement says there's a deal coming out, sounds like it's the latest and greatest. But believe me, there's always one coming out next week or two weeks later. So, so definitely take your time when you invest in syndications.

Yeah, I think that's so smart. I see the same thing happen on my end where people get excited, right? And they get the, the buzz and the honeymoon phase of alternative investments or syndications and You know, they just got one from their, you know, cousin Jerry that's doing their first deal part-time, you know, in their market. And, you know, but it's, it's really important to understand what you're investing in. And you, if you think about like from your perspective, okay, I go invest this money into syndication, but all I'm doing and actually you have some capital losses, we end up losing money in a lot of those deals. That's a very expensive mistake, right? I don't know how much you invested, but say it's $100 grand over the course of a few years. That's a very, very costly mistake that you could have learned some of the basics for a fraction of that amount. Just investing in, like you're saying, these different communities and reading different books, listening to the podcast, watching webinars. And there's so much you could pick up that— what I tell a lot of people is when they're just getting started and people that have, say, a liquidity event, they sell a business, they have a ton of cash they're trying to deploy. My advice is always invest it as slowly as humanly possible because what you'll end up finding is a lot of the deals that you do at first, you may not do a couple years down the road. You look back with hindsight and more experience. And there is an element where you don't want to wait forever, but you also want to wait until you feel confident in what you're doing. You understand the risks. You're taking different deals. And one little point that you, you alluded to, which I think this is such a, such a funny comment, is, yeah, one of your lessons is embrace JOMO. J-O-M-O. Talk about that because I think that is— it's very hard to resist it in the moment when you're new to it, right?

That stands for the joy of missing out. Now everybody has heard of FOMO, which is a fear of missing out, but JOMO is kind of the opposite. And I first heard that term from M.C. Laubscher, who's the Cashflow Ninja. He's a— he has a lot of great content out there as well. But anyways, you know, like I said, if you see a deal that looks great and it sounds like it's the best deal you're going to see all year long, well, you may be too late in getting into that deal and then you get you know, maybe a little sad for that. But believe me, again, there's going to be a lot of deals out there, a lot of solid sponsors out there as well. So again, don't, don't hurry into a deal. And some of these sponsors will say, oh, this is the greatest deal I've seen in the last 2 years. And so then you might get excited about that. But, you know, a lot of that is marketing, unfortunately. But they're just trying to— they're trying to raise capital as quickly as they can so they can get the deal done. But yeah, just if you embrace JOMO at times, just be happy because, you know, there are some deals that I was really, really wanting to get into and unfortunately I was not— well, fortunately, actually, I was not in those deals because they ended up not doing so well. So I, so I've had some, had some misses in the past, but I've also been able to save money by not getting in some deals that I thought were going to be great deals. So, so yeah, again, don't don't be in a hurry. I think that's really key here is to just take your time, look at the deals, study a bunch of deals before you get into them. And you can also ask for— ask the sponsors for, hey, can I see some of your past executive summaries or slide decks of your past deals so I can see what you guys are looking at and I can kind of get a feel for that? So that kind of maybe gives you a little more practice, if you will. And then you can ask them how, how have their deals been doing? And you can kind of compare with their pro formas to see how their deals are doing so far.

Yeah, those are some great insights. Talk about this one. If you're being a podcast host or guest, that's not necessarily equate to being a great syndicator, right? And, you know, I got to be careful because I'm a podcast host and a syndicator, right? So it's, you know, but you're exactly right. There's Talk about your experience with that and why you brought that comment up.

Well, early on in my investing career with syndications, the only way I learned about syndicators was through podcasts, essentially. I didn't have any connections. And so I would hear them on the podcast or two and think, well, that's how that person sounds pretty brilliant. I think I need to talk to them. So I'd give them a call. Get on a phone call with them for 30 minutes or 45 minutes and pretty much get convinced that, boy, this person can do great stuff with my money. I think so. So I would not really vet them. Maybe I would ask for a reference or two, but I think, you know, this is, this is kind of a slippery slope. Yeah, they may be a great sponsor, they may be a great operator with their deals, but just because they sound good or maybe they sound like they're, they're important because they have their own podcast, doesn't mean that they're going to be a great syndicator. So just have to really vet them out, ask other people. Again, that's where community is very important. You can ask people, like for example, on our forum we have discussions on hundreds of different sponsors and you can just say, hey, do you know about X, Y, and Z sponsor? And then some people pipe up and say, oh yeah, that person is great. I dealt with them and I'm in 4 deals with them and they have great communication. So these are the things that you really can rely on versus just listening to them on a podcast, on a, you know, it's a uni-dimensional communication, right? So it's, you're not really talking to them, but, and even when you do get on a phone call with them, you know, they may sound really great too. So you always have to do your checks and balances and get references and talk to people who are much more along or further along in their, in their investing career than you are.

That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, fortunately, unfortunately, a lot of people that are good marketers, you know, good at producing content, good at getting attention, it doesn't always translate to being good operators. Right. And that's, that's just sometimes a very different skill set. And so a lot of people, I think, find out about deals through the big content creators. But use that as a proxy for sophistication, professionalism, and character, etc., etc., when that may not correlate. And to your point, it's sometimes hard to backchannel the information. It's hard to, you know, even if you're asking for investor referrals, let's just say they're not just going to, you know, send you their, their cousin, right? Or someone that is, you know, already has a bias anyway. They're not going to send you the people that have bad things to say, right? So, right, to you, you know, one of the great things with your community is you guys do have a very active, engaged community that can backchannel, share real-time experiences, um, based off of, uh, you know, what they've done. So I think that's a great, a great, uh, example of how a community can really help and bring more transparency to a lot of times when it's not very transparent, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, that's— yeah, you know, they say that your net worth— your network is your net worth, right? So I think that's very valid even in passively investing in syndications because you can, you can save a heck of a lot of money. And anytime you lose capital, that's not good for your net worth, right?

Let's dig a little bit into, okay, I have a deal. I'm trying to figure out if this is, you know, a good deal, good operator, you know, the big scary due diligence words I have to do. I don't know what that means, but some of the kind of interesting lessons here that are maybe different than some people might think of what you have to do for due diligence. You know, one of them here is the early communication may be indicative of their later communication. Talk about how important communication is in these types of investments.

Yeah, I wrote that chapter because I had an issue with a sponsor several years ago where I was trying to get into the deal and it took several emails for him to respond. And so then I finally was able to contact him and then I wanted to get some information about, you know, the, the getting the documents and such. And that still took a few emails to try to get information about that, to get them to me the documents and then to wire the money, etc. So I kind of passed that off as, oh well, they're, you know, they're busy, I guess. And then I think it was a month or two later, there was an email all of a sudden that said that, well, since we didn't go through with that deal, we're, you know, we're just wondering if you want to put your money into our next deal that's coming up. And I thought, well, Wait a second, I never got an email about the deal being canceled. So that was really frustrating to me. And that was just the last straw. So I said, that's that. If that's the way their communication is, then I don't want to invest with them. Because if you don't have good communication, a good line of communication with the GP, the general partner, that just makes things so, so much more frustrating. And we talk a lot about that. I think maybe about a fifth of our conversations are about communications with with general partners. And we actually have a— we just opened up our review site for sponsors, and that's one of the questions that we have people rate on is how is their communication. So in addition to, you know, overall performance, that kind of thing. So yeah, if you don't have good communication with the general partner, you're not aware of what's, what's going on with the deal, then I think that's, that's going to be critical going forward. Even if you have been invested with them for 2 or 3 years in a deal, because if their communication is— I'm sorry, if their deal is going downhill, you want to— you want the communication to increase and not to decrease. If something's going bad with the deal, normally people— sponsors will have an email communication once a month or at least quarterly. And if the deal is going south, I would expect that you'd want to communicate with them even more. Maybe every week or every 2 weeks because you want to be on top of things and have them aware of things. And there are many stories in our forums about people not even knowing that the deal was getting foreclosed on. I mean, that, you know, if a deal is getting foreclosed, I think you should know that. You should be the first person to know. You shouldn't be finding this out.

Yeah.

By a long time before, the day before. So yeah. So these kinds of things are very important. And yeah, even if the deal is going great, I still want to know about the deal, but know how things are going. And I think it's good to also maybe compare how are the returns going, how are the cash-on-cash returns going compared to the pro forma returns? Because if I want to ultimately do another deal with them, I want to know if they're— if what they're projecting is close to what their actual performance is.

Yeah, no, I think that's a huge one. It's one of those kind of qualitative factors that maybe doesn't show up in an underwriting model, that you're looking at to see the returns. But, you know, you can get into a good deal and with bad communication, your experience, you know, you have no idea how it's going. And it can be frustrating to not be able to get the information back that you want. And especially in kind of these private syndications, the biggest knock and the biggest challenge is transparency right there. It's not a liquid market. This is— it can be hard to get the information. And so if you already have challenges there, are some of those early indicators you want to pay attention to because, you know, from my perspective, if someone is already not very communicative when they're asking you for money, right, that, that, that's the time they're going to be the most communicative generally because they have something they need from you and they're trying to close a deal. And so if you're not getting the communication, then it's a very good chance that it's going to be even worse once they have the money and they're moving forward in the deal, right? It's not always the case because there can be extenuating circumstances, but that is something you really need to pay attention to. And I'm sure when you guys talk about in the community, one of the things I always tell investors is, you know, ask for examples of prior communication, right? Go— if they're doing those monthly or quarterly reports, ask to see the last, you know, few years' worth of some of their other deals that they've done and see not only are they consistent on the frequency, but what are they actually saying in these communications? Is it actually meaningful information that's highlighting potential positive things or negative things? Right. Are they actually being transparent? Because it's one thing to send communications, another thing to actually be transparent with how things are going. And I think that's a challenge sometimes to get the actual information. You know, kind of maybe along the same lines, but another one of your lessons is wait one year before investing again with the same sponsor. If you have this as your first deal with them. Talk a little bit about your rationale for that. Why is that a lesson you've learned? Right.

Yeah, I learned that lesson from one of our community members, Dave Shirky, very, very experienced passive investor. And he— somewhere along the way, he learned this lesson as well. So, so he— a lot of us have heeded this lesson. So, yeah, I think what happens if, and when there's a lot of deal flow from a popular syndicator, you want to try to get into those deals. And that was, I was definitely guilty of that even just a few years back. So the problem with that though is number one, you're not necessarily getting that much cash flow, at least initially. So it may take 3, 6, 9 months before you get your first check from distribution check from them. So So if you wait a year, at least a year, and maybe I think I might even change this in a second edition of this book to maybe 2 years. But anyways, I think if you wait at least a year or 2 before you invest with them, you're going to find out what they're— if they're truly— if they're accurate with their pro forma returns on the cash-on-cash returns. Are they good with their communication as well? Because you should be getting, you know, monthly or at the very least quarterly communication from them. And what's in that communication? Like you said, is it just a bunch of gibberish or is it, is it a one-page summary? Is it a— I mean, I've seen one of my sponsors has like a 100-page everything. It's all this, you know, Excel spreadsheets, etc. That's a little too much in my opinion because I don't want to try to, you know, decipher all that information. But if you can have at least a one or two-page summary and then go into some of the details about, you know, some problem spots and that kind of thing, that would be great. So you're not going to really learn that if you're not invested with them for at least a year. So I think that's one of the best lessons that I've learned from the community about this. And so I'm trying to— trying my best to try to keep going with that rule because I think it would have served me well just a few years ago if I had heeded that advice.

Yeah. And how does that kind of play into your perspective on diversification, right? And what's kind of your perspective on, you know, how do you diversify and diversify across asset classes and sponsors? And, you know, there's kind of different levels of diversification, right? Right.

Yeah, I think that's probably one of my favorite lessons is the diversification piece, because I think if I had just invested— well, I'd have been pretty dumb to invest in just resort properties in other countries and just kept up that, that that investment philosophy. But so I did learn after that that, yeah, I definitely need to diversify by sponsor, of course, and then also by asset class. I mean, I shouldn't, you know, don't invest everything in multifamily and, you know, look at self-storage, look at mobile home parks, industrial facilities and that kind of thing. The boring asset classes. And maybe, maybe if you, if you're, you know, if you want to put a little bit of money into a resort property, I don't see anything wrong with that, just as long as it's not a major part of your portfolio. And then geography, like I said, it's— that's very important because real estate largely is local. And if, if, you know, Minnesota is not doing well one year, well, maybe Texas is doing well. So it's good to diversify your, your investments by geography and then even timing. You know, I think if you had— if you came upon $1 million today, I would absolutely tell you to not invest that all in 6 months or maybe even a year. Maybe I would spread it out over 2 or 3 years because, you know, there are certain times if you had placed that money maybe, say, 2 years ago, 3 years ago, you'd probably be in— you might be in some big trouble if it was in multifamily deals with bridge debt. You would— you'd probably lost most of your money at this point. So I would say that timing is also very important with— in terms of diversification. So, yeah, don't— again, don't be in a hurry when you're investing in syndications.

Yeah, makes sense. Talk about why the operator is the keystone of every syndication.

Yeah, I think this is an important lesson that I've learned and I would say that the operator is probably— maybe I like to say it's about 80% of the success of any syndication and the deal itself, maybe 10%, and then the location, another 10%. So I say this because a great operator can save a bad deal, but a, but a bad operator can quickly tank an A-class property. So I think it really is important that this operator has a lot of experience. Preferably, it'd be great if they had been through some— have been through some different cycles and have come out ahead. But yeah, the operator is absolutely the key. And, you know, they're— you've probably heard the saying, bet on the jockey, not the horse. And, you know, I think that when you have a great operator you can have more confidence. You certainly have confidence in them and you want to, you know, you want to develop relationships with these people as well. So I think this is very important for your future. And if you just keep, you know, if you keep just looking at a deal and just looking at the metrics that are, you know, 25% IRR and that kind of thing, I think that's really misleading. And you shouldn't be, you know, you shouldn't be just looking at those metrics that are, that are the, the return metrics. You really should be looking at what is the operator going to do for me, not what is the deal going to do for me.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, what about the capital stack and debt structure? How do you think about that maybe differently than you did earlier on, and what are you looking for now when you're investing in a deal to understand the kind of key risks of that particular investment?

Right. So yeah, I wrote that chapter. It's one of the newer lessons I guess I've learned. I'm still kind of learning it right now. But the capital stack just means, you know, where is your money in terms of, in terms of the return on the, on the capital. So there's a picture in my book and you can just Google capital stack as well and you'll see on the bottom you usually have senior debt, which is typically the bank. Which is going to be the majority of the money coming in for that to buy the deal. And then you'll have— there might be mezzanine debt there, and then there's going to be maybe pref equity, preferred equity, and then there's going to be common equity, which is where most of the LP investors are going to be investing. But the common equity is where you're going to be— you're going to be the person to get the last monies or last return of capital, in other words. So So it's going to be definitely higher returns than what the bank's going to get, but it's also higher risk because you're the last person to get paid. So, so you always have to keep that in mind. So when you look at the loan-to-value, the LTV, if it's a high LTV, say 75 or 80%, that means that the bank's going to get their 80% back first before you're going to really get any significant money back in terms of your capital and the returns. So, so they have low LTV, say 60 or 65%, that means you're going to— it's not leverage as high. So you're going to be in a safer zone because you only have to give the bank, you know, 60% or 65% back. So, so you're going to be in a better situation. So that's, that's extremely important. And then, and then in terms of the debt structure, like I mentioned before, these bridge debt deals that were out there, they had a variable floating rate loans. Yeah, those were those we're finding out now that we're getting into trouble on a lot of these deals because the interest rates went up so high so quickly in a short period of time. So unfortunately, a lot of these deals were not able to keep up, keep pace with that because their interest payments went up by millions a year. And that's not something that was projected in the performance, unfortunately. So So you really need to look at that and look at your risk tolerance for that. So going forward, I think I will— I hope to never invest in another bridge debt deal in my, in my career. I think if I had, if I had done some of these multifamily deals that had long-term debt, say, you know, 10 years or whatnot, none of these, none of these deals that I'm in would be in trouble right now.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, see, that's, that's some, some jam-packed information here. We only hit a couple of the lessons, so definitely encourage people to, to get the book. Here is 20, 20 lessons. And these are, you know, real-world examples of things that have happened in 15 years.

It's a lot longer.

A lot of people have been investing in syndication. So definitely appreciate you coming on, Steve. What's the best way for listeners to learn more about you, learn more about Left Field Investors and the community that you guys have built?

Yes, I think the best way to contact me would be to just email me steve@leftfieldinvestors.com. I'm also on LinkedIn. You can find me there. And then also, of course, the website is leftfieldinvestors.com. And like I said, we have a lot of free resources on there, a lot of great links. To podcasts and books, etc. So you can, you can get a great head start just by going to that website. So and then if you're interested in joining the Infield, which is the inner circle membership group, you could— we're happy to have you there as well. And you'll be able to get out to our forum, which I think has the most value. And then we also, like I said, we have a, a syndicator review site now as well, which is going to be— which is being built up right now. So I think we're happy to have anyone join our group.

Awesome. Thanks so much, Steve. Appreciate you coming on.

Thanks for having me.

This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors.