Unique Alt Investing: Opportunity Zones, Venture Capital & More feat. Kelly Ann Winget

Hello, future billionaires. Welcome back to another episode. Today we've got a really fun guest. Her name is Kelly Ann Wingett, and she's a founder of Alternative Wealth Partners. And we had a really fun conversation. So she's been in alternative investing for kind of her whole career. She's actually a fifth-generation oil family and has done a lot in oil and gas. We talk about oil and gas, you know, what she's seeing right now in the market and really how do you identify bad actors and how do you avoid bad deals. But she's also done a lot of other things in private equity and venture investing as well as opportunity zones. And so we kind of just run the gamut time went on talking, different things where she's seen opportunities, you know, how she's, you know, putting these types of deals together and really her experience in working with family offices earlier on in her career and how they were investing and taking some of those approaches, you know, to what she calls the everyday millionaires, you know, folks that are not $100 million net worth, but, you know, have enough capital to invest in these alternative assets. And so she's raised over $1 billion and, you know, mostly all through retail investors, which is a pretty, pretty cool feat and just a lot of, a lot of perspective. So I think you'll enjoy this episode. And as always, when we bring someone on that is raising Kapital, I got to give the caveat and disclaimer that you need to do your own due diligence. You know, if you like her story, like what she's doing, you know, make sure you dig in and do the right due diligence and make sure it's the right fit. And if it's something that you want to do and after digging in, because that is very, very important. We just bring people on that we think have a cool story and, and just curiously ask questions. So with that, hope you enjoy this episode. If you are enjoying this podcast, we always love your feedback, love any reviews that you can give us or sharing with a friend and getting the word out there. So with that, enjoy the episode. This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors. Looking for passive investments done for you? With Aspen Funds, we help accredited investors that are looking for higher yields and diversification from the stock market. As a passive investor, we do all the work for you, making sure your money is working hard for you in alternative investments. In fact, our team invests alongside you in every deal, so our interests are aligned. We focus on macro-driven alternative investments so your portfolio is best positioned for this economic environment. Get started and download your free economic report today. Welcome back to another episode of the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I am your host, Ben Frazier, and today we're joined by Kellyann Wingett and very excited to have this conversation. So, you know, Kelly, give us a little bit of background of who you are and what you're doing.

Thanks for having me on today, Ben. I come from a background of many, many things, so I am 5 generations in oil and gas. Both my parents were in financial services, either as accountants or CPAs. So I've had a lot of access to just money in general. It was always something we talked about at the table, which is unusual, but it gave me a launching pad to where I am today, which is in the alternative space where I've been for about 13 years. I used to help other companies raise capital in my early part of my career. I've raised almost $1 billion in private capital, $100,000 at a time, and really focused on the retail investor space. So before 2020, about 2018 to 2020, I was more in the family office. So I had a little bit exposure to the institutional world. And that's what made me realize, you know what, I'm going to stay in my lane because I really like working with everyday millionaires, which is kind of a silly phrase, but everyday millionaires and providing a service that they understand and appreciate. So in 2020, I launched my own private equity company to give access to alternatives to the everyday millionaire.

I love that. I love that. And so I think you just dropped the B-word, billion. And I mean, you don't look that much older than I am. You're probably even younger than I am. And that's a pretty impressive feat. I think when we talked before, you said, you know, you started pretty young, so you've had the advantage of a long time doing that. But I mean, that's an amazing feat. So kudos, number one. And we also syndicate and raise money from, you know, $100,000 checks at a time. I know how much work that is. And so I can't imagine, you know, all the conversations you've had to get to that point. You know, I'd love to hear from you because kind of our whole angle on this podcast, Invest Like a Billionaire, right? It's how do we emulate what the ultra-wealthy are doing for the everyday millionaire, right? How do we take the tactics, the strategies, the asset classes, the portfolio allocations that the ultra-wealthy investors that have all the best deal flow, have all the best resources, all the smartest people in the room, you know, managing their money. How do we implement those things at a smaller level you know, with our $2 million net worth or $10 million net worth or somewhere around there. Right. And, you know, what did you see when you're working with those family offices that, you know, you've kind of seen and can, can give some insights to that might be beneficial to someone that's not at $100 million net worth, but, you know, has enough money that they can invest in these private alternatives. And one of the things that you saw that made them successful and, you know, whether mindsets or strategies, etc.

Yeah. One of the things is that they are surrounded by people that are smarter than them, which helps a lot unless they have the wrong people. And so that's what I realized is, you know, I was working for a large group, had about $3 billion under management, and I was brought in to work with the investors on their oil and gas stuff. They didn't have anybody on their team with any oil and gas experience, and almost a third of their portfolio invested there. So from my perspective, I was like, it's a little late trying to explain oil and gas to your investors when you've already put their money there. So it's— it might look like someone knows more than you, but in reality they might not. So as an individual investor, it's really important just to educate yourself on something you're interested in investing in because it might turn out that the person who's trying to sell you on an investment actually doesn't know anything about it, which I've seen a lot in my career, which is unfortunate for investors because they just really don't know how to do the due diligence. That's changing. There's definitely a lot more access to information now than there was 5 or 7 years ago. And that's why I like the retail space. The, the difference also is that there's way more people who can get involved in the type of institutional-grade investments. So you think that only ultra-high net worth or family offices have $1 billion under management can get into these deals. But the reality is, is that if you're looking in the right places, as long as you have the income or the net worth, which is the barrier is pretty low considering what money is today. A $200,000 income or $1 million net worth is not difficult to achieve today as it was 5 years ago. And all of those people qualify to participate in kind of these risky either venture, private equity, oil and gas, real estate, any of these types of syndications or opportunities available to them.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I would agree with you, the access to these types of investments is totally changed, you know, past 10 years, but even the past 5 years as a lot more sponsors are embracing, you know, the 506 designation where you actually can publicly market and solicit and, and it's becoming a lot more commonplace. You know, one of the things from our research that we've seen is that generally these ultra-high-net-worth families, you know, the big institutional investors, they have pretty heavy allocations into alternatives. You know, a lot of times upwards of 50-plus percent. I mean, is that something that you saw through the families that you kind of worked with or raised?

Yeah, I mean, generally, or if you look at any of like the endowments, which is public information, I mean, these are university endowments. You can see that even the Yale endowment, which is one of the largest, flipped from a 90%, like back in the '80s, late '80s, early '90s, like 90% in stocks and bonds to almost 90% in alternatives today. So there's a huge shift. All of the big money is investing in these other things. Now, does everyone have a portion of their portfolio in something conservative like stocks, bonds, and cash and stuff? Sure. But the returns are coming from private equity. Like, that's where your, that's where your money is. And that, and in alternatives, which includes things like real estate insurance.

Yeah. And from your perspective, I mean, I think you and I are pretty aligned in this, so I'm asking a leading question, but you know, what do you, What do you love about alternatives? Right. You've been in the space for your whole career. You've seen— they've worked in a lot of different asset classes and types of investments. And, you know, what makes you passionate about doing— being in this space that we are in?

I'm very much like an America-first type person. So like the fact that small business is the foundation of the United States and our economy is something that really gets me excited. And it used to be that community banks and banks would help small businesses grow. And that changed decades ago where you're only going to get support from a bank that's attached to a mortgage. And even more so now, and venture capital kind of ruined that for everybody. But there's no one out there that's supporting businesses in a way that banks used to. With one, the understanding that it takes time to, to scale and the flexibility in capital. So the way that we invest in small businesses are usually typically through creative debt and equity structures. And there's not a lot of people out there doing that now. There's a little bit of shift because like the private equity group is kind of like doing private debt credit and stuff now. So I think that they're understanding, but that's probably the most exciting part about alternatives is that you can get creative with how you invest. And you can realistically invest however you want in whatever you want.

Yeah, absolutely. I love that you've, you've been investing in a lot of different asset classes. Now, you come from a fifth-generation oil family, so I would be remiss if I didn't ask you some about that because, you know, if anyone's been listening to this podcast for any length of time, you know, we're very bullish on, you know, fossil fuels right now and have, you know, several putting over several funds around that. But talk a little bit about, you know, your perspective on it. You've been— if you've been in the space for a long time, your family has— you've seen a lot of ups and downs, a lot of booms, a lot of busts. You know, what's your perspective just at a macro level of the oil and gas industry right now? Are you excited? Are you not excited? Are you placing capital? You're not placing capital. Talk about your perspective. Just—

I am always excited about oil and gas. Always. I, you know, the thing about oil is that it's all about when you buy. And now it's kind of an interesting time because you do have high oil prices, but there's still not a lot of demand or competition from the investor's perspective. So you still can get pretty good prices on these assets. So you're not overpaying like you were in 2013, '14 when oil prices were $130 last time. Where people were paying obscene amounts of money for oil interests and they literally— everyone lost their shirt, which is why oil and gas has such a bad reputation from the investor's perspective because all they can see is like what happened in 2014. But since then, all of these— basically the industry, the private industry of oil and gas has become so efficient that they're making money at $25, $30 a barrel. So everything else is gravy. So if you can get a really good price on an oil asset at $75, $85 oil, like you're making money. You know, the biggest risk in oil and gas is one, the dry hole, but mostly time. How long is it going to take to get your money back or a profit out of that property? And it's truly a generation. I mean, there's massive, much wealthier families than me made in oil and gas. But you know, my family's assets down in Southern Louisiana have been paying royalty checks for, 85 years. So, you know, that's— and it's still going. And those are the types of things that a retail investor can just buy. I mean, the government sees it as a piece of real estate and there's a lot of tax incentives around it. And it's really easy to transfer from one party to the next. If you're talking about working interest or royalty mineral rights, it's just a really great transfer of wealth and it holds for generations. And, you know, sometimes you'll get a really big check when oil prices are high and sometimes you get a little baby check when oil prices are low. And if you have the stomach for it, like it's a great asset to have as a foundation in your portfolio. Everything.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, I agree. And it's interesting, you know, I haven't been in this space as long as you have, but, you know, from our conversations with people that have, they said that the industry as a whole, you know, at least domestically here in the US, has kind of taken a little bit more of a disciplined approach, right? Where, you know, we had, you know, 2013, 2014, you know, kind of big boom-bust. And then even in 2020, right, when oil prices went negative for a day and, you know, the whole industry got flipped on its head, you know, it's from what we've seen, a lot of these operators have been deleveraging, right? So there's actually a lot less debt just on the balance sheets. So kind of de-risking some of that. And, you know, we're also seeing, you know, this is not just purely driven by operators, but the capital markets have not been allocating as much to oil and gas because a lot of the ESG, you know, mandates they have to invest in, you know, you know, green-friendly type operators and, you know, fuel sources, etc., etc. They mandated by some of these policies and it's really kind of left this huge gap in the funding. So supply has been declining. And not only that, the capital put into new producing wells, new drilling has dropped by, from our research, over 50% over the past 7 years. And operators are kind of okay. We're sitting in a nice little place with oil prices right now. We have good production and it doesn't seem to be as overheated as it has been in past times. So to your point, you can go and buy at a pretty good basis, get some pretty good cash flow. And if you're buying, you know, producing what producing assets and, you know, maybe going to drill on top of that or the acreage you have, you know, a lot of times paying for that upside for the drilling. Right. And so at least for the worst, you know, you kind of seeing a similar thing in some of the assets that you're, you know, looking at.

Yeah. And there's definitely some interest on the buyer's side of people that, you know, aren't necessarily in the industry. So you have family offices looking and which has been really interesting because we sold a couple of our assets in one of our larger portfolios in West Texas. Just because they were kind of like boring. So we took them out and took them to auction. We were expecting to make about a 1.5 on it on the 3 different assets and ended up making 2.66. Our friend in Colorado is selling plugging liability for $100,000 a wellhead. So that means that somebody is paying for the cost of having to shut that well in. And I think the family offices are literally just looking for anything where there might or be oil or is oil or gas. There's a big demand for gas too. When you have Warren Buffett buying all of the natural gas pipeline in the country, there's usually a big flag there that says, hmm, I wonder why.

Look into that.

Yeah, you know, I do, I do brag that I bought Occidental a year and a half before he did, and so I'm enjoying my 360% return on my Occidental stock.

There you go. So Buffett's just following you, right? Yeah, the trendsetter here.

Exactly. The best thing to do when oil goes negative is to buy as much of it as possible, right?

Yeah. I'm still going to need it for a while.

Yeah.

You know what? What I'd be curious to hear from you too, because, you know, there's obviously a lot of interest, I think renewed interest in this asset class, especially as commercial real estate, which is another area that we invest a lot into. I know you do as well. You know, it's hard to find really good deals. And so investors are looking to scan the landscape. Where else can I find good returns? And so there's a lot of interest. But the challenge is if you haven't been in the space for a while, you maybe don't know what to look for. And as we've got some conferences even this year, we've talked with other operators, you know, with our fund. I'm shocked at like what some of these folks can get away with and, you know, the amount of upselling that they're doing on these, you know, you know, current wells or the new drilling programs are doing. I mean, you know, we've been doing it enough to have a decent sense of, you know, what's standard, what's to be expected. But how does someone like— how do you find the bad actors then? I mean, there's literally— there's a Ponzi scheme that just came out earlier this year, though, and it wasn't directly in drilling. It was a carbon capture kind of play, but it was— they had raised $250 million in equity for this deal and it was a Ponzi. I mean, it's straight up, you know, so I think part of the oil and gas, you know, rep is also the volatility, but it's also there's, you know, it seems to attract maybe more bad actors than other asset classes. I don't know why. Maybe that's just a misnomer. But how do you— how does an investor kind of avoid those traps? Right.

It's really hard on the carbon capture side of things in the renewable space because there's not a lot of like— it's a fairly new asset class. Right. So you don't have a lot of oversight or regulation that people are aware of. They're still like, the regulatory entities are still trying to figure out what it is in the first place. And so it's hard for an investor to know more than like the people that are out there supposed to be protecting them. In the oil and gas space, I mean, it's been around for the, since the beginning of time. So there's no excuse for people to be taking advantage of it, but they are out there. A lot of the times these are people who have done it before. So really doing your due diligence on the management team is really important as a retail investor because a simple Google search can really save you a lot of time on the person who's talking to you because, you know, the industry is really small and the downside to like the SEC and stuff is that they slap people on the wrist, they give them a fine, they make them a bad actor or whatever, but it doesn't stop them from doing anything. They do not go to jail. So they could raise hundreds of millions of dollars and they do not spend a single day in jail. They pay some million dollars in fees that goes to the SEC, not the investors. And then they're told, don't do that again. And then they do under a new name and under, you know, a new company. So, you know, you really—

I think that that's a really important point because it's kind of crazy, right? I mean, I remember when I first got into the space, just the assumption that if someone got caught like doing a Ponzi scheme, they would be prevented from ever raising money ever again. Right. And in some cases that does happen. But in some cases, no. Right. There's a deal I— an investor that I worked for back in the day, angel investor that, you know, got into gold mining. You know, this is a long time ago. And, you know, one of his partners comes out— he didn't do all the due diligence, but comes out later on that he was indicted for a Ponzi and he ran a Ponzi before raising money for this deal. But he was still out doing it again and he ended up finally going to jail. But I remember early on thinking like, how did that happen? But it's something that's really— to your point, it's— you can find a lot of this stuff if you're doing simple Google searches and running background checks. You know, always ask for background checks on people because one, they're not willing to share with you, that's a red flag. And two, it's going to catch a lot of things, you know, the latest parking ticket that they got, right? And it's just— it's going to give you a really good just another data point that you need to have, especially in this space?

Yeah, if they— there's a lot of third-party, um, like due diligence companies that will do a due diligence report on managers. Um, a lot of, uh, fund managers that are offered through traditional broker-dealers or advisory firms typically have that report. They're kind of expensive, expensive, so that's why you wouldn't have like kind of a smaller fund manager have one, um, because there's tens of thousands of dollars. And but if you as an individual investor have the time and resources, you could pay to have one done, but really spend more time on who the manager is. And then in oil and gas, if it doesn't have a 2 or 3 year payout at $65 oil and they can't clearly explain that to you, then you should— there's probably way oversponsored. And it's, it's pretty common. And also, I know the documents are really long, But there are companies out there that stick things in a 200 to 300 page PPM that say, I'm marking this up 3, 4x because this is a turnkey investment. And they're literally, because they've disclosed it, doing a legal scheme.

I mean, that's what's crazy because that's exactly what I've seen where, you know, these operators going out, these conferences selling single, you know, vertical well drill programs and they're selling them for like $3 million per vertical well. I'm like, I'm drilling these vertical wells. It does not cost that much. Yeah, I mean, that's a 3 to 4x, you know, override that they're charging, which one, they're taking a ton of fees upfront, which is not in alignment of interest. And two, they're diluting the equity returns massively by doing that. So it's, it's, it's definitely something you got to watch out for. Let's shift gears a little. Yeah, go ahead.

You can see this out there. Yeah, you can see this. Alternatives are kind of the Wild, Wild West, right? There's not an oversight committee. There's not a lot of protections in place. Like, you really do have to do your due diligence as an individual. But just know that if it's not disclosed, they are lying about it. And that's wrong, right? But if they, they typically disclose how much they're paying themselves, you know, what their markup is on the asset, all these things. You see it in real estate all the time. Not so much anymore because people aren't refinancing, but a lot of those companies were paying themselves a pretty big acquisition fee for finding the deal. And that's clearly written in the, in the documents that you're signing. So just make sure you're signing the documents and reading them.

Yeah. Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the other things I wanted to chat about that you've been involved in for a while is kind of more the venture side of investing. So investing in startups, investing, you know, in private equity. So talk a little bit about that. Where have you kind of cut your teeth and you know, what kind of things you're doing right now?

Sure. So venture capital, especially with women, has become really popular in the last 2 years. And when does it, you know, you have a big Kim Kardashian as a private equity firm now, and Serena Williams has a venture capital firm now. And so, you know, it's got a lot of publicity, which has typically been reserved for like Silicon Valley. But now angel investors are starting to be like, I want to get in on these companies before, you know, everybody else. And there is a lot of risk there. I mean, you're talking about a company that could be at an idea on a napkin stage to maybe their first customer. And while we don't invest that early, like a napkin idea, but we do invest with companies that might have a year or two of, of business activity and, you know, maybe they're teeter-tottering between, you know, losing money and making money, but they need a little bit of a capital infusion that could really help them scale. And I don't typically partner with venture capital because I, I have a different investment strategy, but I do work with a lot of venture capital firms on, you know, what companies they're working on that get them to a point where private equity starts getting interested, growth capital and buyout, or if they're going to go public or something. So it's, it's an interesting space. I do think that people should if they're interested in getting involved in venture capital, to think about maybe investing in the companies that they are aware of in their community directly instead of through a venture capital fund, unless they're specifically interested in tech or some sort of like really niche investment thesis.

Interesting. Yeah. So what are some types of companies that you invest in? Do you have a certain you know, verticals or types of businesses that you like more than others, or kind of across the board and really more at the stage of the company versus the type?

I like companies that make money, but I typically focus on who the person is behind the company more than necessarily the product, because I believe that a founder is not a first, a one-time and only founder. I think that they can go on and create many businesses, especially if they're creative and passionate enough. So I really look at the people and whether or not that company is going to be successful, because if somebody is really passionate about what they're building, they would put their blood, sweat, tears, house, home, children into making that company a success. And I want that kind of commitment to somebody that I'm going to hand, you know, a 6-figure, 7-figure check to. And we invest in everything from, you know, consumer goods to tech in the startup space. And, you know, we've invested in a clothing company, we've invested in a, in a fragrance company, dog food company, and ammo company. So it's like literally all over the place. But they're all, you know, at the core of it, manufacturing. And that's what I like, manufacturing that have a tech piece to it and infrastructure deals. Those are kind of my That's my jam.

Very cool. And do you invest in those as kind of individual deals or do you do it through a fund or what's kind of your approach?

Usually, usually these people are trying to raise through SAFE and the VC route, but there's a lot of work that they've put in that makes them a little bit further ahead than something that a VC could get involved in and needs more assistance from somebody that has more mature company management and operation experience. So that's where we're coming in that way as an only partner, mainly because I don't think that they should ever get— take capital from venture capital. It's definitely a competition out there, but the deal flow is, is me taking out first round funding myself and then, and then they might raise a Series A or something afterwards.

Got it. One of the cool things we talked about before is Opportunity Zones. And this is kind of a unique kind of angle because obviously, you know, investors, they don't have the opportunity to research them from an investment standpoint because it's pretty cool, you know, what's being allowed through the tax code to defer and ultimately eliminate taxes in certain real estate investing. But you're saying you can also invest in Opportunity Zones not just in the real estate, but also in the businesses and get some of the same eligibility and potential benefits. So talk about that. I think you've done this on one of the deals you invested in and what that process was like. I think it's a really cool strategy.

Yeah. So Opportunity Zones have been around since 2017 and it was part of the Jobs Care Act and it used to have a, a holding period where if you held for 5 years, you got a step up in your basis. You held for 7, you got another. And now we've, we've gone past that point because there's only 2 years left in, in the ability to even invest in an Opportunity Zone fund. So it ends December 31st, 2026. So if you're not invested by then, then you're— you can't invest. So it's an opportunity for people to take capital gains and put it into an investment fund that invests in these particular parts that have been identified by the government as Opportunity Zones. And then any future appreciation of that capital gain is now tax-free after 10 years. And it's an incentive to invest into the economy that needs investment. And this goes beyond just like building multifamily or affordable housing or whatever. And, you know, our, our personal thesis on it is we're building economies, we're not building buildings. So, you know, we're focused on building what the community wants and needs there and can support and then upskilling the community and the businesses inside of the real estate so that they can always pay the increased rent from the value that we're bringing into the economy. So the, the fact that you can invest in the businesses is really powerful, especially when you're talking about that appreciated growth being tax-free. So when you have your 10+X return in venture in a tax-free vehicle, then that's what you want to do. Because if you can take a million-dollar capital gain and turn it into $5 or $10 million after 10 years, and it's all tax-free, that's a return that I want because I'm all about tax elimination, not tax deferral. So I hate 1031 exchanges. Like, it's not— I don't like depreciation in real estate because you got to pay it back. Like, there's a lot of things that, you know, things like oil and gas, the tax benefit, oil and gas, and the tax benefit in opportunity zones that mean no more taxes instead of deferred taxes.

Yeah, no, that's super cool. I mean, obviously the IRS, they're allowing this, but they're You know, if you do that, get a 10x return, you know, they might be like, well, maybe we should have rethought that.

It's like the— what is it, the billion-dollar Roth or whatever it is, right? From the book.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to be one of those. Oh, but it'll be too late for them to do anything about it because that's right.

That's right.

Program will be over.

One of the things I love that you shared before we chatted just a lot of people, like you said, are focused on, you know, diversity and, you know, women-owned businesses for investing, but you're also wanting to take an approach for LPs. So for limited partners and having diversity in your limited partners, talk about what you mean by that and why is that a passion for you? Sure.

So a lot of people are focused on the pipeline of like, and like, where are the female founders, where are the female BIPOC business owners, you know, that side of the thing. Of course, there's those business owners, they're everywhere. And if you open your eyes, you can see them. But the, the issue is, is that you're not creating the people who understand the products those people are making, right? If you have a Black woman going into a room full of white men to explain menopause in the Black community, that investor committee is going to be like, I don't get it. You know, like, there's no value in that. But if you have one single, like, 50-year-old Black woman on that investment committee, she used to be like, this is a billion-dollar idea. You know, it's somebody that understands. And so my, my mission is to make other people wealthy, you know, who are already wealthy, just don't know that they can also invest in these generational and, you know, wealthy asset classes, energy, real estate, private equity. These things are primarily invested in by white men, which is fine. Except for like, Black people have money too. So I focus really on educating the other part of the community in what they have access to as accredited investors. And so, you know, this year we were able to flip our investor base from 60/40 white man, right, in their 50s, 60s, to 60% female or BIPOC. And that was really cool to see because you know, they were like, I've never heard of this. I never knew this existed. You know, I thought this was for, you know, wealthy people. I thought this was for hedge funds, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, you as a normal everyday millionaire have access to these wealth-building tools. And so if you can make someone else wealthy, then they can go and start making investments in companies that make sense to them.

I love that. I mean, I am a white male, you know, and better or worse. So, you know, I, I am on that side of it, but I also have 4 daughters and And so I'm thinking I want them to have all the access that, you know, it's easy for me, easier for me than for others, right? But I love that you're focusing on that and that's a passion for you. I totally get behind that and champion that. So way to go. And what—

You just have to use it right, you know?

Right, right. Absolutely.

Be aware of it and, you know, use it for the betterment of the world.

I love that. What's the best way for folks to get a hold of you if they want to check out more what you're doing and hear more about your story and follow along?

So if you want to know more about the private equity side of me, it's alternativewealthpartners.com. If you want to know more about like what I do in the DEI space, read my book or whatever, you can visit kellyannwinjet.com. And if you'd like to interact with me like personally, I'm very busy on LinkedIn, so I manage LinkedIn. It's like the only social media I really manage. And so I post, you know, articles and opinions and things on there and you can message me and stuff. Awesome.

Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, Kelly. This has been really fun conversation and love what you're doing.

Thanks, Ben.