Upcoming Investor Summit & Investing in Storage feat. Ryan Gibson

Hello, future billionaires. This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast and we've got a great show for you today. We brought on our good friend Ryan Gibson from Spartan Investment Group. We've known Ryan for several years and super sharp team over there. We really, really just enjoy them and do something a little bit different on this podcast. So when we're talking about self-storage and that's the asset class, which is not boring, not boring, apparently awesome. And you'll hear about all that there. And then we kind of shifted gears and talked about a kind of intimate event that Spartan's hosting and that we're the exclusive sponsor of. Yes, we're super pumped about this. We're really excited about this.

Get a chance to meet you all.

Yeah. So we have this little event up in Lake Tahoe, California. We'll be there in person. It's a very limited number of seats. So if you are interested, we have information on how you can sign up for that. We'd love to meet you if it sounds interesting to you. Um, as we talk about all that, and, uh, we obviously love that you guys listen to this show, and if you are enjoying it, please subscribe, leave a review. It helps us continue to promote this to more people, and hope you enjoy the show.

Let's dive in with Ryan.

This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast, where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors. Welcome back to the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I am your co-host Ben Fraser, joined by fellow co-host Bob Fraser. And today we have a really awesome guest, Ryan Gibson of Spartan Investment Group. Ryan, this is going to be so good. Yeah.

Hey guys, thanks for having me.

Yes. So if you're not familiar with Spartan, I don't know what rock you've been hiding under, but these guys are awesome. They manage a lot of assets and funds in the self-storage industry, and we've actually invested with them and have really just seen their incredible growth. They are buying a lot of assets. It's a great time in the self-storage market.

Fell in love with an asset class that I didn't understand, right? That's the most boring thing. I mean, self-storage, it's so, you know, uninteresting, but it's not.

It's not.

It's amazing.

That's what makes it awesome as an investment, right? So we want to bring Ryan on, just kind of get a state of the market and kind of hear from them what they're seeing. Obviously, with some big changes in recent months with interest rates climbing, fears of recession looming, you know, wanted to hear what they're, what they're saying.

So we jump in. We haven't really talked a lot about storage. So just give us the, the kind of the 101, right, of storage. Why is it so great? I mean, I was alerted because it did so well through COVID, right? Self-storage. And, and so just give us the 101. What's great about self-storage and why is it the best place to stick your dough?

I think it's the best place because it depends on life events and life. When life events happen, self-storage is a beneficiary of that. And when COVID hit, that was a great example. Everybody moved, everybody resigned, everybody moved into an RV and traveled, or people moved across the country or decided that they didn't need to work in a downtown metro policy anymore.

They needed a place to put their junk.

Yeah, but they, yeah, they had to, they had to get going. So places filled up and, and store occupancy increased and likewise rental rates increased significantly. And so we've seen that play out over the last 4 or 5 recessions.

So, so life events, which are always happening, create a demand. And then, and then, so talk about some of the other benefits, just, just bullet points. So, um, uh, the rises, inflation, it's very adjustable to inflation, right? It's, uh, easy to evict tenants. So, so give us some of the, some of these, these other—

yeah, so I would say when we have 30-day leases, we can adjust the rates on our self-storage customers every 30 days versus every year, or if you're in a longer triple net lease or industrial lease, you know, might be 20 years or, or 30 years.

Agile and flexible on what you want to do.

Absolutely. And so as a small example, we just increased our rents about 25% across our portfolio. Wow. Effective September 1st and October 1st. And the reason why we could do that is because everybody's on 30-day leases and we can adjust to the CPI. So as Consumer Price Index goes up, we can match that with our interest rate. So we have a really good opportunity to hedge against inflation.

And if somebody's $70 bill goes up to $85, it's not a game changer, right?

For a person, right? So yeah. And what's great is we're identifying assets that where the market's already charging $90 or $85. So when we buy our facilities and they're at 70, we can just simply bring them up to the market rate and add value just by charging what everybody else charges.

Okay. And because this isn't a place that human beings live or they shouldn't, then generally you, you have— it's easy to, you know, get rid of non-payers. So talk about the laws there.

Yeah. So really there is no eviction moratoriums or restrictions on what we can do. We're governed by state law, but that lease provision allows us to evict the tenant usually within 30 to 45 days. So that second paragraph in a lease says the owner has the right to lien the occupant after 30 days of non-payment.

And so, oh, you lien the contents of the goods.

That's correct. Yeah.

Wow. So it's like storage wars. So you actually, you actually, actually let this stuff go to bid and that kind of stuff. Is that real?

Yeah, kind of. So the in-person auctions aren't really— unfortunately, Bob, the in-person auctions are not really a thing, but we can— we do it all online now. So if you go to storageauctions.net, put in your zip code, you'll find, you know, local auctions in your area that you can get alerted to. But it all happens from the comfort of your own home.

So check that out.

Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a gambler's dream, you know?

Right.

There's some boxes in there. You know, so, so it's such a cool business. And what was the other— there was one other major thing. So, oh, the operating costs, right? So think about it, right? You have 1,000 tenants maybe, right? And, and what does it take to actually operate one of these complexes?

Yeah. So we, we see typically one employee per store at the most, maybe two if it's quite a large facility. But generally it's one employee that can be as little as part-time, you know, 10 to 15 hours per week on some stores. And, um, you know, it's easy to operate. We have the ability to have our systems shut down a gate when people don't pay after 3 days. So we don't need anybody there to manage that.

And then it's really highly automated anymore. And so can people actually rent online or on a kiosk or something like, like that little Little app, that kind of thing.

Yeah. People can rent on the kiosk, which we define as your smartphone. So everybody's got a—

Ah, there it is. I have a built-in kiosk.

Exactly.

Yeah.

24 hours a day. Yeah.

It's really like a perfect investment in a lot of ways. And it's weathered so many of the downturns and everything else. How much, how much of this stuff do you have now? I mean, it's, it's getting up there into the many zeros land.

Yeah, so we have about 25,000 units and we have just over about 3.5 million square feet of self-storage. Specifically, we just got named the 40th top operator in the United States by ISS. So quite a lot of it. And we really love the asset class and this is what we've been focused on almost the only thing you guys do.

So you really have become experts at storage. So, all right, so there's the 101. What's the 201? So what's happening now in the, in the, in the storage world?

Yeah, so just, we just did a blog on self-storage REIT performance. We track the REITs, we track the REIT data as kind of leading indicators for where the industry is going and sort of how the industry's doing overall health-wise. And I get a lot of investor calls that talk about, I see these things popping up all over my neighborhood and they feel like they're being overbuilt. But the reality is on a macro level, self-storage Same store, you know, same NOI growth has been over 20% just in the last quarter for the REITs. And they continue to experience the highest occupancies and the highest occupancy rates.

So NOI, for those that may not know, is net operating income, and that's how much earnings are being earned by these things. It's grown 20% over the year, which is insane.

And that's after expenses.

That's after expenses. Yeah.

That's correct. Yeah. And you know, we project anywhere, we underwrite, you know, 3 to 8% growth, you know, in a given year. So you can kind of get a nice sense of just how much they've really exceeded their expectations and their forecast. And every time the REIT puts out, the REITs put out a kind of an unrealistic forecast in our minds, you know, they just like double their forecast. So, you know, we're seeing even more move-ins and more rates. Really the 201, I think, is construction costs have gone up so much, right? That we're actually seeing a significant slowdown in how many new developments there, there have been. And really the sweet spot that we play in are the tertiary markets, you know, within an hour or an hour and a half outside of a major metro where there really isn't the justification for a brand new facility, but you can take advantage of the high occupancies of the existing facilities.

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, one of the things we've talked about a lot on the podcast is just what we're seeing is kind of a key tenet of, you know, what's going on in the economy is inflation, and it's, it's here to stay. And, you know, the longer that we've kind of seen this, um, post-COVID world play out, we think it's going to be, you know, an element of our world for some time to come for a variety of reasons. But And to the earlier point, one of the most inflation-protective assets there are is storage because of its, how quickly you can raise those rents to CPI and how really price inelastic it is, right? Because you're only charging $50 to $100 per unit, 25% increase, while that's a big percentage, is not actually that large of a dollar increase, right? Which is what's so cool with that. You know, it's interesting too, as you're kind of navigating this time, obviously, you know, you're seeing some softening in the prices and the valuations of these assets, but at the same time you're seeing really strong NOI growth and NOI over time will translate to higher value, right? Because, you know, we've talked about this before, how, you know, the value is dictated by your NOI divided by the cap rate and what the cap rate's kind of that, you know, price-to-earnings ratio, so to speak, of what you're willing to pay for that NOI. And a lot of times that can go in tandem with interest rates. So as it's going up, cap rates are going to go up, which is going to hurt values a little bit because your borrowing costs are more expensive. But if you can weather the storm or you can ride through it as those cap rates kind of come back, but you've captured all this NOI growth over the past few years, well, that's a really good situation, right? Where you've kind of grown through it and now all of a sudden that dollar that you've brought to the bottom line through revenue increases and expense management now is worth more than it was even before. So you guys are well positioned. What are you seeing just from kind of the interest rate environment? And obviously one of the big things that seems every other headline is talking about is there's a recession looming and all these kind of things. And we have our own opinions on that, which we share a little bit. We'll share more, but what are you kind of seeing as far as What's the market like? Is there still— is trading totally stopped or are transactions still happening? Are the debt markets freaking out?

Absolutely, they are. Lending is slowing down and even some of the acquisitions across the industry are slowing down, but we're not really seeing any cap rate expansion per se, but we are seeing a slowing down of buying and a slowing down of transactions across the industry. And that's because banks are You know, they're jumping on the brakes, I think, just in general overall. But what we continue to see is rising occupancy and NOI, like we had mentioned earlier. And what we're seeing is an opportunity to sort of buy something for a discount based on where the yield curve is and where the interest rates are. And so if that changes in a year or rates go down, or even a couple of years from now, you know, we could be really locking in some discounted properties based on the future potential of interest rates. So we're seeing opportunities to buy some facilities still, even in this higher interest rate environment, that cash flows, that may have a potential to be even worth more than what we're underwriting it today, just based on the fact that, you know, we're building in that higher interest rate on our valuations and our decision on how much we can pay for a property. So We're not buying as much as we had planned this year, but we are finding some really great opportunities.

So you're seeing it as a really good timing for storage right now. So you're saying, you know, if I'm translating this right, you're seeing the high interest rate environment is creating softness in pricing. So you're able to basically get these things at a good price. And I mean, we're, you know, I don't know if you're seeing much of this, but we are seeing other deals falling out of trade, right? Where because of interest rates changing the dynamics and that buyers are simply backing out of deals. So you're seeing softness at the same time, record NOI increases. So the earnings are actually increasing at these record paces, which is good as long as even if you overpay for an asset year one. But if that NOI keeps growing, you're going to grow right into it, you know, but you're not even having to overpay. So it's best of all worlds. So it sounds like a really good time and then kind of protective future because you're seeing the new development, new product not coming on board because of high construction prices. So kind of a, really it sounds like a real sweet spot. Is that right?

It really is. Yeah, it, you know, obviously as we all know, the interest rates are higher than the worst case projection that we had last year, but really we've kind of pivoted it, like you said, into an opportunity to pick up some great facilities that have had tremendous growth. And I think, Bob, one thing I didn't mention in the beginning was most of these facilities are still owned by mom and pops, 70% to be exact. 70%.

Wow.

It's a highly fragmented industry.

Highly fragmented.

So how does that create opportunity?

I think what really drives the opportunity is mom and pops, when they built their facilities, you know, 30 or 40, even 40 years ago, they were, they had a very low cost basis. You know, construction costs were a fraction of what they are today. Right. Land values were a fraction of what they are today. And they really stumbled into this high cash flowing business. And the focus of a mom and pop is to fill up their facility and keep it 100% full. And now that they've sort of matured and had their facility for 30 or 40 years, even their, their goal is, I don't want to do anything. I just want there to be a waitlist and, and the place to be 100% occupied. There hasn't been any optimization for revenue management or rent increases or marketing or anything that we typically do.

Probably even technology, right? And yeah, all that.

I have a great story. So we bought a facility from this guy in his mid-80s, really great guy. And he was doing everything cash only. He was handwriting all the leases. He was there at the property every single day. Really, really loved his business, but that's how he did it.

Absolutely.

Yeah. There was no internet connected to the property, to the facility. So it was funny.

Did you explain to him about the internet?

Yeah. Well, we connected the internet to the property after the purchase and he was, He was highly, highly doubtful. But it was funny. One day he walked in and he was looking over my shoulder and he was looking at our desktop and it shows all the units laid out on the map and who's paid and who hasn't paid. It's all color-coded and everything. And his mind was blown. He's like, oh my gosh, if I would have done this before.

Yeah.

And so I think there's just a different focus. And then when we come in and we say, hey, we can pay you this much for your property, You know, their minds are blown because we, they have such a low basis. They never thought it would be worth what it's worth today. And what we see is the opportunities to just simply bring the rents to market, put a little bit of revenue management in place, and really just, uh, that's awesome. Squeeze all the drops out. Yep, exactly. So, well, good stuff.

Awesome. Well, Ryan, I, I did want to shift the conversation a little bit cuz, uh, one of the, the reasons we wanted to bring you on aside from just got to say that, dude.

Yeah.

Is this Spartan Investor Summit in Lake Tahoe, California. It happens to be your background. So if anyone's watching this, you've probably been, you know, scratching your head here. What's this all about?

What's the—

why is he here?

Yeah. Tell us a little bit. I mean, this is something we haven't done before on the podcast where we're like promoting an event, but we kind of heard about it. One, obviously we're going to be involved in it, which we're excited about. But two, it really seems like it fits a lot of you know, what our listeners and our, you know, the investors that listen to this podcast would really benefit from. So we want to kind of bring, bring you on, talk a little bit about this kind of intimate event and share a little bit about what you guys are doing. What was the kind of genesis of this brainstorming of this event?

Yeah, so we've been dreaming about this for years, and what we wanted to do is put together an event that's small, that's exclusive, that's limited to just 50 people. And we wanted to do it in an environment where it was fun and relaxing. So the Landing Resort in Lake Tahoe is where we're going. And it's open for investors, your listeners, and anybody listening to this event. But really what we wanted to solve is we wanted to, instead of having a conference with, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people or even thousands of people where you don't really get to know the speakers very well and really kind of lay out your strategy. We wanted to limit it to 50 people and bring together the best people that we know in the industry on the economy, tax, legal, investments, people who have built billion-dollar businesses and sold them, and let those speakers really get to know the audience and build a tribe of investors that can come away from this knowing, you know, kind of, A, walking away with 50 other attendees as friends and colleagues that they can call on, but also having the speakers and their knowledge kind of play out in their investment, day-to-day investment strategy. So I'm really excited about it. You know, Ben, I know you and I had sat down at our kind of our offsite and, you know, Aspen Funds was top of mind in being an exclusive sponsor to this event. Because I think you guys have a lot of alignment in trying to provide as much value to your investors as possible. And this event really hits home for that.

Wow, this sounds so perfect. I mean, I love that concept of a, you know, small group. I love those small intimate meetings so you can really build the relationships and get to know one another. And so much of the problem in the investment industry is it's too cookie cutter. Everybody's trying to make cookie-cutter approaches for everybody. And the truth is, it just doesn't work that way. And so you have a unique situation. And so you're really designing something to build relationships and to gather, gather input, you know, the thing I was thinking about, okay, so you've just sold your business and you've got, you got, you got a chunk of change sitting in your pocket. Do you want to just hand it over to a guy with his name on the top of the building? And he's going to tell you what you're going to do with it. And, you know, 60/40 portfolio and the stock market's always the place to be. And, or do you want to get involved? Do you want to actually get involved? Do you want to learn something? Do you want to be good? Just like you were good at your business. Do you want to be good at being an investor of actually you're, you're vetting the deals, you're understanding the deals, you're involved. Does not mean you have to, you know, you know, you know, make the phone calls and heavy lift anything in the business. You're a passive investor, but it's making the calls, right?

right?

Of your allocations and what kind of deals you want to be in, those kind of, that's really the kind of person you're after, right? I mean, you know, it's the way we all are managing our own money, right? We're not just sitting back and a guy who's supposedly smarter than us all is telling us where we're going to, he's going to put our money. Who wants that? Is that right?

That's exactly right. And you know, and why not do it and have some fun and, you know, meet, mingle, right? And so, that's kind of why we, you know, we picked Lake Tahoe because it's a great time of the year and we have all these activities planned.

Here's the question, is there any water in the lake?

Well, you better act fast because this might be the last year.

Okay. Now, now, you know, I know you're a pilot, you're actually a commercial pilot. So, you know, I'm in if you're, if you're going to have a seaplane there, you know.

Oh, all right.

Come on, man. I, I, listen to Justin.

That's a bucket list, Bob Fraser bucket list deal, you know. Is, uh, is go try to land it on the wings, man.

Yeah.

All right, Bob, you got it.

I'll be there with my seaplane. No problem.

Seriously?

No, I'll pull out. Really? Don't tease me.

You'll be flying your, uh, it'll be the day after your checkride, so you'll be flying your own plane.

Yeah, my baby, my baby pilot's license.

Yeah, I probably won't fly with you on that one.

Chicken.

Chicken.

You'll be fine. You'll be fine.

It sounds so amazing. It really does sound like a blast.

And I think one of the things that we're seeing, you know, as we talk with a lot of our investors and just this whole growing movement with, you know, the JOBS Act kind of starting this whole movement towards private alternatives and access to more private alternatives, we're seeing a lot more do-it-yourself investors, if you want to call them that. You know, and, you know, Bob and I were just at an event a few weeks ago and the whole point was, you know, defending the do-it-yourself investor and basically getting involved, getting your hands dirty and not dirty with, you know, the properties or the assets themselves, but doing the due diligence and finding the right partners to place your capital with, but not just blindly trusting, you know, a financial advisor that probably has a net worth, you know, a lot smaller than yours. And, you know, they've just been trained in this certain regimen of, sales process. That's— it doesn't fit, right? And so there's this kind of growing movement, but the biggest challenge and limitation that these investors have is resources, is trust, it's finding the right people to partner with. And you can, you can, you know, go it alone, but you're going to go a lot farther if you find the right people, if you go together with the right people. And so one of the things I love about this and You know, it's fun because, you know, Ryan, you and I are in our own little mastermind and I've gotten so much value out of that and just how you guys are growing and how we're growing and what are the things that we can learn from each other and constantly, you know, sharpening iron, sharpening iron. I think it's the same thing in this more kind of intimate environment where passive investors get to do the same thing, right? You get to talk and build relationships with people that are you know, learning from their experiences, from their mistakes potentially. And you can, you can shortcut a lot of the, the heartache and the pain and, you know, to get to your end goal a lot faster by getting this kind of mastermind environment, right? It's kind of a, a term that's, you know, maybe overused sometimes, but I truly feel like this is going to be that because you get to build the relationships, you get to hear from experts, and it's zero sales event. It's zero. Yeah. So it's, there is no, no pitching.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll just say, just kind of adding on to the no, the no pitching, some of our top investors are going to this event. So they've already invested in alternatives and are doing other things. So really, you know, if you want to hear from another peer group, you know, and what they're doing, it's good for that. But also I want to point out that there's 9 speakers and 50 seats. So I mean, that's almost a 1 and, you know, that's a very, very good ratio of speaker to attendee. So when you talk about a mastermind, I mean, there's going to be so many opportunities and the extracurricular activities that we have planned for fun, but then also the 2-day event where we're going through and listening to the speakers and then having breakout sessions and kind of really diving deep on different topics.

Share some of the topics that will be discussed.

Yeah, I'm actually speaking. I'm opening, and so I'll jump in there. I'm actually pretty, pretty excited to share. So if you want to come meet me and have a conversation, I'll be there. And, and talking about economics and, you know, my passion is having gone through two giant supercycles in investing is to understand the supercycles. And it's a whole lot easier to be successful when you know the big tides of the economy and where they're going. So, so you actually can predict what's going to happen because things— the big tides are very predictable of demographics and geopolitics or, very predictable. So I'm going to highlight some of the big investable megatrends and where we're seeing the economics and where we're seeing the opportunities. And then, so tell us about some of the other speakers.

Yeah, some of the other speakers. So we have Toby Mathis, who's going to give you tax strategy. So if you are an active real estate investor and you're doing some syndications here and there and you want to know kind of the best ways to position yourself for success in tax strategy, you're going to get that. Plus, or if you're planning on a big exit, like Bob Fraser was mentioning earlier with your business, you're going to have the opportunity to talk about the best ways to strategize paying less taxes. It's not what necessarily what you earn, it's what you keep. And the tax strategy is a big part of that. Basics about an advanced strategy on asset protection. We're going to have Clint Coons from Anderson Advisors come and talk about asset protection strategies, and you'll be able to mingle and network with Clint over—

Yeah.

Yeah. And then we'll have, um, a business strategist who's advised multiple billion-dollar companies, uh, for success. And he's gonna come in and do a workshop on kind of laying out strategies for positioning your business, uh, for success and really getting dialed in on strategy. I think, um, one of the things that a lot of people ask me when, you know, hey, how did you guys organize your company and how did you grow and, and really get your culture and and devise a strategy. A lot of it's come from having a business strategist. And so Ron Lapointe's coming, who's going to talk about how he's done that for us and how he can help tailor a plan for— yeah, for other, for other people. We have Vicki Schiff coming in again. I mentioned she's, she started Mosaic Capital. There are $3 billion in originations over the course. She sold her company, had a huge exit. So she's going to talk about everything that she went through in that and kind of some strategies surrounding how to do a good exit in your business and transition.

That's interesting.

So yeah, and then we even have some of the more soft touch stuff. Rich Fettke, who just wrote the book The Wise Investor, is coming. He's going to talk about, you know, kind of a balanced wheel of your investment cycle, right? So it's not just about making as much money as you possibly can. You want to be able to enjoy it. And so some of the aspects and elements behind really kind of setting yourself up for overall life success, not necessarily just in your business or just in your financial success. The Spartan team will be there. The chief officers of Spartan Investment Group, our CEO, CFO, myself. We'll hear from Ben Lapidas about different— he's going to be moderating the event and and really kind of just tying it all together, which I think is what he does best. It's kind of contextualize one speaker to the next, but also talk about underwriting and financial analysis during this uncertain time and really just kind of having access to, you know, different things that what he's thinking about for underwriting and forecasting in this uncertain time. So I think, you know, it's a stacked deck of speakers and a really awesome location. So really look forward to it. Yeah.

I mean, and a seaplane.

And a seaplane.

Hopefully fingers crossed.

And water.

Yeah.

The lake still.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're on the podcast right here, so there's a lot of accountability if it doesn't happen.

But all right.

I'll have to get my seaplane rating before the conference.

So, yeah. I mean, it really sounds like, you know, for investors that are either owning a business and looking to exit and sell at a certain point, or have recently sold a business, have exited, have had a windfall of cash liquidity event, they're going to be really benefiting from a lot of these speakers and getting around other like-minded people that are in a similar position. Would you say that's kind of going to be who's going to benefit the most from this?

Yeah, that would be, I would say, one category of, you know, that's a perfect fit. And then I think the other category is, you know, you're want to eventually get to that point in your business, right? You want to get to the point where it's, you know, able to be sold. Yeah. And there seems that you need to be thinking about today and setting yourself up structurally to be successful in that moment, right? And it might be years from now, or it might be just right around the corner. So I think it's perfect for that. And then lastly, I think it's always going to be beneficial for the real estate investor who, like you said at the beginning, is really hands-on and active in real estate. They might not be going and doing the physical work on the property, but, you know, kind of a full-time passive investor or transitioning to one and looking to kind of set up how they do their investment strategy, I think is going to be really, really beneficial to that person.

Awesome. Well, Ryan, we're excited to come out and hang out with you and anyone, open invitation if you want to come join us. So Sounds like it's going to be a blast.

So just 50 seats, huh?

But there's been a ton of interest, which has been great. And we're looking forward to seeing you there. And Ben, I think you're going to put everything in the show notes if somebody's interested and wants to register. I know that we're opening up a few spots for Aspen and Invest Like a Billionaire listeners. So it'll be in the show notes.

Definitely click that link if you're interested to get more information on all the details. And Ryan, always a pleasure to chat and connect. Thanks so much for coming on and see us in the beautiful Lake Tahoe. Yeah, thanks so much, Ryan.

Thanks, guys.

Awesome. Well, that sounds fun. I'm already wanting to go right now.

Definitely me.

Yeah, Lake Tahoe sounds great from this humidity and heat here in Kansas City. But yeah, if you guys— sounds interesting to you, please click on the link, find us more information out about the event. We'll be there in person. It's going to be a really fun time. Get to hang with us and the other folks at Spartan and the other speakers. And, uh, you know, as always, we like to encourage you to sign up for our Investor Club list. So if you are enjoying these episodes and getting value from them, you can kind of go one step further and join the Investor Club. It's on our offerings page, access to our deal flow, access to our deal flow on aspenfunds.us. So Sign up there to get information and exclusive offerings on the deals that we're putting out. And till next time, thanks for listening.