Warren Buffett’s Giving Strategies feat. Evan Lange

Hello, future billionaires. This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast, and we've got a really fun show for you today. A little bit different than other ones we've done, but Bob, what'd you think of this one?

This is going to be so good. Oh my gosh. And it's how to invest like a billionaire, but it's, but it's investing in, in giving and investing in charities. And hey, don't tune out because this is actually smart business strategy you're going to get too. So, uh, and these people that we know for a long time and highly, highly endorsed. So it's awesome.

So we brought on Evan Lang. He's the president of the Midwest region at The Signatory, which is a big donor-advised fund company. And he talks about the strategies that Warren Buffett uses for giving. He talks about some of the really cool tax deductions and giving assets versus cash, talks about why you should think about giving and lots more. So you're going to listen to this episode.

Tune in.

It was a fun time. This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors. Welcome back to the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I'm your co-host Ben Fraser, joined by fellow co-host Bob Fraser. And today we're joined by Evan Lang, who is actually in Kansas City with us. We're super excited to have you, Evan. Thanks for, for coming on.

I'm so pumped for this, for this. Very, very excited to have Evan with us.

Yes. So this is going to be a little bit different. This is one of our standard episodes.

We like different.

We like different. We like to mix it up. And we know you don't want to come for the same old thing every time. And normally the theme is Invest Like a Billionaire. Today it's Give Like a Billionaire.

Well, that's investing though, right?

It's investing.

It's just a different kind of investing. It's investing in the future of the planet and the future of people's lives to better people. And truly, I mean, our theme is Invest Like a Billionaire. But that's just what billionaires do, right? They're giving massively.

So what it made me reminded of today, I was just Googling it again on the Giving Pledge, which is such a cool thing. It's for billionaires. If you haven't heard of the Giving Pledge, Google it. It was started by Warren Buffett and Bill and Melinda Gates, and they started this program to basically get billionaires to commit giving 50% or more of their wealth to philanthropy, which is just so cool because it's, you know, at a certain point, you know, you're kind of these different stages of investing and building wealth. And obviously the first stage is, you know, becoming financially free. The next is having enough to give to heirs. But then beyond that, what's really the goal, right? Is it just to accumulate more?

And over 100 billionaires have already done this. But Ben, we're talking too much and we haven't even heard—

I know.

I know.

So Evan, we're too excited.

I could listen to you guys talk, like just, it's awesome. So thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. Excited to chat with you about giving, which is fun.

So Evan, talk to us a little bit about what you do. Obviously you're a president at the Signatry, which is a foundation that helps people that have wealth to get into on the mechanics of that. But talk a little bit about your background and how you got into this space and what you do.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Ben. Yeah, so I work at The Signatry. We're a global Christian foundation. I tell people I help people give money away and I love your podcast because I work with several billionaires. So where people that are giving tremendous amounts of money away and my job, I, my background is I'm a lawyer, so I will help these families figure out strategic ways to give to charitable causes using some tax-efficient vehicles and to talk about, you know, variety of different charitable causes to give to. So our mission at The Signatry is literally to educate, inspire, and facilitate radical acts of biblical generosity. I love it. It's a great job for a lawyer to have.

So I've actually known Evan for some time now and and work with the Signatry. But these guys are really easy to work with. You don't have to be a billionaire, so I don't want to scare anyone off, right? You can start a donor-advised fund with $1,000 and get rolling on this. And these guys are a wealth of resources and stuff. But, you know, so just, Evan, so, I mean, aren't wealthy people generous, right? This is what most people are, aren't they? When you get to a certain level of wealth, you know, doesn't this just, Isn't this just a part of the, of what people start to think about?

Yeah, I think generally it's interesting, Bob. I wrote an article several years ago and it was actually about Warren Buffett and it was about how Warren Buffett gives because, you know, people like to invest like Warren Buffett. They like to look at what does Warren Buffett do? How can I emulate those types of things? Very few people give like Warren Buffett does. And the way that he gives is he does it strategically. He uses certain assets that he gives away because there's tremendous tax benefits by doing that. And there's some great charitable benefits. You're actually multiplying the amounts that you're giving away by just using strategic assets. And I know you guys love all—

we want to hear all about this. We want to hear all about this. Yeah.

And I know you all love alternative asset classes and those types of things. Well, there's also tremendous benefit. By using those for philanthropic purposes too. Just most people don't think about it. And so I tell people one of the most inefficient gifts that you can make is using cash. Go take your cash and go invest it. Go give it to Aspen. Go, you know, you guys figure out ways to grow that. And once it's grown, those are your opportunities to give.

We're going to dive into that in just a second. But, you know, I find, you know, I'm 62 years old right now, and the older I get, the more I'm really thinking about the impact I want to make and not just the multiplication I want to experience. Right. And I think that's kind of normal, right? I mean, you know, and so it's really, it's really, you know, as we start to achieve some goals and we start to kind of experience what we hoped for throughout our lives, it is time to start to think about really what do we want to do with it? Right. And at the end of the day, we just, you know, we can't take it all with us, right? Someday the clock is going to stop ticking. And at that point, you want to make sure it isn't just a train wreck you left behind. And so really being able to take a portion of this wealth and be strategic about what you want to do with it and the change you want to do with it as a steward of this wealth, right?

Yeah. That's a great point, Bob. I'll give you a quick example. With a family that I worked with out in the Seattle area, and they had an extremely profitable business. And this person was actually pretty similar to your age, Bob. And they got to this point where they had all the houses, they had all the cars, they had all the planes. This guy was a pilot, so he had, you know, instrument rated. So he had all the jets.

Yes.

And he got to a point and said, When is it enough? And for him, he ended up selling almost everything and got down to his house and just started giving at tremendous levels. And for him and his wife, what they would say, it was so much more fun almost lowering their net worth by giving than it was achieving all of these other aspects in their life, you know, getting to that next house or getting to that next, you know, the newest jet, which is just so cool to hear about. And I mean, Bob, you know, some of the people, then, you know, some of the people I get to work with, they're the most content, happiest, joyful people in the world. And I think it's because they're also the most generous. And so when you add those two elements together, it's kind of like you said, Bob, like not only are you creating a legacy for yourself, you know, making an impact on this world, making an impact on other people's lives, you are going to be so filled up yourself. It, it almost infectious. So that's what's really fun to see.

That's awesome. So, so let's talk about these strategies. I want to hear about Warren Buffett's strategies and assets and why give assets. So what are you talking about?

This is how you do this. If you give cash away, then you get a tax deduction for whatever cash you're giving to a 501 public charity. We all know about this. But when you give an appreciated asset, and I'm talking about a long-term capital asset, so this is an asset that you've owned as an investment for over a year, at least a year. If you give that away to charity, then you're able to take a fair market value tax deduction for it. And then when that asset is sold by the charity, the charity's tax-exempt, so they don't have to pay capital gains on it. So an easy example, and you guys are going to cringe because I'm going to use a publicly traded asset as the example. Let's say you bought Tesla stock 3 years ago for $100 a share, I think is what it was trading at. And today it's trading at $1,000 a share. Well, you donate that one share of Tesla stock today, you take a $1,000 tax deduction, the fair market value of what it's trading for today without having to pay taxes on the gain.

No. Yeah.

And that's the best part. So when that asset is sold—

so if I were to sell that share of Tesla stock, I'd pay taxes on the gain and then the cash I would give. But so it's basically a way for me to— I would give less. So it's a way to give more and I don't pay as much taxes.

Absolutely. And for people that are charitably minded, think about this. You are giving $1,000 away and it only costs you $100. What a great investment just from a charitable standpoint. But yeah, you get the double tax benefit of a large tax deduction and avoiding the capital gains.

So, so what's Warren doing?

That's exactly what he's doing.

So what appreciated assets is he selling? It ain't Tesla stock. Come on.

No, but it's other appreciated assets that he has. Uh, I don't know if you all have seen Berkshire Hathaway's stock price every once in a while, he gives a lot of that stock away.

He gives his own stock in his own company.

Yeah. And he's doing that actually through a donor-advised fund. He also does that through private foundations as well. And there's limits to each one he does, but he maxes out his limits. So he takes full advantage of these tax, of this tax deductions. And here's the best part, Bob, is that when he does that, say you donated that Tesla stock for $1,000, you go take your $1,000 cash, you go buy that stock back. You can reinvest it in the same stock the same day and basically step up in basis. It's a great way to rebalance a portfolio. You could go and take that cash and go invest it in some alts instead of publicly traded markets.

There you're talking. All right.

There we go.

Finally. Come on. We're finally, finally getting everyone on board here.

Yeah. I like to throw those carrots out there every once in a while.

So let's say you're not invested in public markets. You're just, you know, and you're not a Warren Buffett, but you've got a factory or a, you know, you've got a car dealership or a business or something like that. You know, what, what are those, what are those strategies that you, that you can use? You know, manufacturing company.

Yeah. The, the operating companies become a little bit more complex, but there's very similar things that you can do if you have an income-producing asset. You can donate that and say it's an asset that's going to be illiquid. Say it's like an apartment complex that you own. You can donate an undivided interest in that asset, say 5%, 10%, whatever it is, into a donor-advised fund or another charitable vehicle. And then that charitable vehicle can hold that asset and just basically be another partner in the transaction. The difference is when you receive passive income, to a donor-advised fund, it's tax-exempt. So it's another way to almost front-end your giving versus receive the cash, pay taxes, turn around and give it away. This is a way that it goes directly to charity and you still get a tax deduction whenever you donated that 5%, 10%, whatever undivided interest in the asset too, which is really, really a powerful strategy.

What do you mean an undivided interest?

Yeah. So, When I was in law school, my property professor would always talk about real estate as a bundle of sticks. And basically though, that represents all of the interest or the ownership interest of that real estate. If you lease that building or real estate to somebody, that's kind of like one of the sticks. There's also, you know, if you have an easement, that's kind of another stick. But if you, but other people can also own that real estate. You can have a partner. That partner doesn't have to be 50/50. That can be—

you don't have to split the real estate in half or something. That's what, that's the point is that point.

It's an undivided—

you can donate an ownership percentage to this donor-advised fund. And, and one of the things I'm actually looking at is, is forming a corporation and putting some assets in there and then getting this you know, get a share price for this, getting it, uh, appraised, and then donating those shares to a donor-advised fund, right? And these are non-voting shares. So, so talk about how that process like that might work for different folks and, and non-voting interests and how that all works and why it's cool.

Yeah, before we do that, can we talk a little bit about what a donor-advised fund is? Because I think that is kind of a newer concept where The idea of charitable giving is generally, I'm going to go give to this certain nonprofit that I believe in their vision for, but there's a whole other option here that is something that you can have some level of input into what it's being used for. Right. So can you talk a little bit about that before we get into the mechanics?

Yeah. Yeah. Ben, Public Speaking 101, define your terms. Right. So yeah, a donor advised fund is basically an account that anybody can set up at a nonprofit that has donor-advised funds, and it basically is like a little family foundation. And so at The Signatory, we have donor-advised funds that we set up for people. So anybody, you don't have to be a billionaire, you don't have to be a millionaire, can set up a donor-advised fund, and it basically operates like your family foundation. You put money or assets into that foundation, and when assets go in, you get a tax deduction. It's a charitable contribution. And then once assets are in that fund, the donor, the person that put them in, tells the charity where they want those assets to go.

Foundation. Yeah.

Yep. Foundation. So, so you put $1,000 in a donor advised fund and then you turn and tell the, tell the foundation, send $1,000 to my church, or then send $1,000 to United Way or whatever charity that you want. The IRS requirement is that it has to go to another tax-exempt organization or a 501 or church or a school. You can't take that money back. It's given away. It is a charitable gift. And so that's kind of the key component of it is that's okay.

So anyone today could go on the Signatry, right? And just sign up for this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you can go on and it's online.

You can just do this.

You can go online. Yep. Signatry.com and hit start and sign up.

And then you pretty much have your own family foundation. How much does it cost?

Nothing. So anybody, you don't have minimums. Yeah. Yeah. Invest like a billionaire, but it doesn't cost you anything.

We need to work on your business sense, Evan.

Like we're a nonprofit, right? Okay.

So, so I can go set this up and then what I can do, if I want to give $1,000 a month, I don't have to decide who I give it to. I can just give it to the foundation. And then as soon as I do that, I get a tax deduction that year. But I still, then I can still go figure out, well, who do I actually want to give it to? And again, that's just online, right? Click, click, tap, tap. And I can go send to United Way, to my church, to whatever 501s out there. And that's a separate kind of thought, which, which I love, right? As, as the earner, I want to think about, here's my giving goal and I want to be putting that in there, but I'm, I don't know exactly where I want that money to go necessarily. I just know that's my, that's my goal for, for, for charity, right? So it lets me separate those things and get a tax deduction the moment I, you know, I donate, right?

Absolutely. So what we have a lot is December 31st rolls around and it's the end of the year and people know, oh wow, I'm going to pay a lot in taxes this year. And so I want to give something away, but I don't know where to give it to. And maybe it's a large sum of money. So people can put, yeah, you can put $1,000 in your donor advised fund on December 31st, get a tax and you got a tax deduction that year.

And then you can then figure out what you want to do with it. Absolutely. And wow, that is so cool. And, and, you know, and I just want to say, I want to vouch for these guys. You know, I've known them for 20 years, uh, and they're the real deal and they're 100% up and up. And I just can't recommend these guys highly enough. Everyone should get a donor advised fund and use it for whatever is in your heart, you know, but this is awesome. All right. So Ben, can I ask my question again?

Yes, please. Sorry.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, so Evan, back to more complex strategies. So I've got a— I give, you know, non-voting shares of my corporation. Why is that cool? How does it work? You know, what are the advantages?

So this is the secret sauce of the donor advised fund. If you're just giving cash into a donor advised fund, I hear people tell me all the time, what's the benefit over just giving to charity? There's some convenience, there's those types of things, which is great. But the real benefit is when you want to give assets like what you're talking about, Bob, you've created a C corporation. You have this appreciated asset that you can't just say to your church, hey, I'm going to give you some C corp shares to hold on to. The church is going to say, I don't know what to do with these things.

They're not going to want it. Yeah. Why don't you give me shares in your family corporation?

That's right. I mean, this is, uh, I mean, you got to get, You guys talk about alternative assets all the time. It's like people raise their hands because they don't understand what this is. So at the Signatory, this is what we do all the time. People say, hey, I want to donate a portion of my business. So yeah, you're able to donate a portion of your business into the donor advised fund. And you're right, you have to have an appraisal of that asset because it's non-publicly traded. And so in order to get a tax deduction, somebody has to do a business valuation to say, This 10% is worth $1 million, which costs like $8,000 to $10,000 maybe, or more. I mean, just depends on the complexity of the business. Yeah, absolutely. And so you put that in and you still run and control your business just like you were before. It's a non-voting interest. We, the Signatory or your donor advised fund, is a shareholder of the company now. But as the company, you run it the same way. When you issue a dividend, that whatever percentage comes to the signatory, and that percentage for a dividend is tax-free. Now there's some business interests like S corporations, you know, partnership interests, those things that we actually have to pay some taxes on. But it really is a, it's pretty minimal comparatively. And so the strategy still works out. And so when people, have an asset. Again, they're illiquid. Then I think I heard a podcast that you gave several, I don't know, several times back ago about growing your, not your income, but your—

Balance sheet.

Balance sheet. That's right. Most business owners have a massive balance sheet, but they actually have very little income. And so giving is the same way. Let's give off of the balance sheet. There's so much more benefit by doing that versus just giving out of your income because your income's probably not that great anyway. You don't have that much cash. And so that's what we're really trying to help people see is when you give off the balance sheet, again, you're creating more charitable giving. You're creating actually some liquidity from a tax deduction standpoint. It's a great way that people just, they don't think about. So I'm glad I could have you on to share.

And so just, just to connect the dots here for people. So let's say I give this— I have this corporation and I give my shares. Well, so let's say this corporation theoretically is earning $1 million a year in profit. Well, it's going to be worth how much? A whole lot more than $1 million. So it's an appreciated asset, right? So maybe that's worth $5 million or $7 million or $10 million if it's, you know, that's what the appraiser says. Well, so I'm giving the shares. I'm on a million-dollar income, if I'm giving 10% of those shares away, you know, the value may be— it's valued at $10 million. So I'm literally giving this— I'm getting this enormous deduction because I'm giving away kind of the future earning potential of this company. But, but that's awesome because that's continuing to give. So there it is.

Yeah, it is. And there's limits to how much you can give. The IRS caps it at a certain amount and you're able to carry over deductions and all those things. This isn't a a tax class, but you're right, Bob. I mean, that's the, you're able to give off of the balance sheet. And in essence, I mean, you could almost like pre-fund your giving. As you're thinking through things, you say, hey, I don't want to mess up my cash flow. Well, give an asset that's income producing, so you don't have to mess up your cash flow. You can keep it the same, but you're able to get larger deductions and fund all of your giving. So you're supporting all the causes that you like anyway. You're just doing it in a much efficient way.

Okay.

So let's talk about balance sheet giving, because this is, this is interesting and you're going to educate me on this too. So I know some of this stuff, but I don't know a lot here. And so I've heard, right? So let's say you got a, you got a manufacturing business and you actually own your building or you own your equipment. Does it make sense to give those assets? And, you know, maybe you're not paying any rent, so now you're, you're You donate those assets to the nonprofit and then you get a deduction for those and then you would be paying rent to the nonprofit. How does it, how does it work?

Yeah. Thank you, Bob, because you give me the answer that I get to give my lawyer answer. It depends. Okay.

You're fired.

No, it really does. So like equipment, it's one of the worst things to give charitably. Yeah. So, I mean, if you depreciated equipment down to nothing. Your equipment does not get your, that fair market value tax deduction. Not a good gift. A building is a great gift. You depreciate it down, especially if you have a business that's an operating business that rents the building, maybe from the owner of the business. That's a great way to do it because—

So you depreciated this down, you donate it at the fair market value. You don't have to pay taxes on the appreciation.

Ooh.

Yeah. So, and we have, and we have business owners do this. They, they think it's fantastic because as the business, the business is paying rent to them for the building that they're using. Instead, now they're paying rent to the donor-advised fund, which is now tax-free that they're able to give away. And they got a big deduction when they donated the building or a portion of the building. and they're still writing off the business expense for paying rent. I mean, you can just see the layers upon layers of benefit of doing this.

And to your point, it doesn't hurt the cash flow of the business. It's not you sacrificing this income to give to charity. It's, it's not taking anything away from the cash flow of you operating successfully your business. Yeah.

I like that.

And then you're not, to your point earlier, you're not giving a nonprofit who maybe doesn't have a whole lot of real estate background. What do they do with this building? How do I manage this? How do I hire the right accountants for it? They just now have an income stream that's associated with this asset that's going to provide long-term cash flow while you can still have some input on how that's managed and those kinds of things.

Yeah, it's in a donor-advised fund too. So that cash flow is going into your donor-advised fund where you're directing where—

Telling what happens as well.

Yeah.

So, so once, what happens to these assets once they go into the donor advised fund? They can never come back out, right?

Uh, yes and no.

It's like the Hotel California.

Check in, but you can't check out.

The good one. Yeah.

Uh, no, you, once it's given, it is given away, but sometimes we have this as part of a succession plan. So say you have a business and it's a generational-owned business. And so the owner says, I want to transfer this business to maybe my son or a key employee or another family member. They don't want to just sell it all the way outright because that's a massive tax burden for the owner. But what they can do is sell part of it to the next person. Then they can donate a portion of it to their donor advised fund. And then as the donor advised fund, the signatory, we can turn around and sell it to that portion, to that person as well. And again, they're able to basically do a transfer to the next generation or to the next successive owners.

Wow.

Tax-free.

It's a great way to do that.

And this is all kosher. You're a lawyer, right? So this is all up and out.

Uh, let me give the disclaimer real quick.

I am not a tax attorney.

Uh, this is not, we will do the disclaimer at the end if you will. That'd be great.

So, no, that's incredible though, because I mean, I'm not a tax person, but my understanding of the quote unquote death tax and transferring assets upon death, you know, without any kind of trust or any kind of transition plan is extremely costly. If I mean upwards of 40 to 50%, right?

I mean, you can lose the asset, you lose the business just because you can't pay the taxes on it.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Which also, why wait until you're dead? You know, for some of these people, if you can't enjoy it, then, you know, transfer it during your lifetime so you can enjoy the benefits of it. You can see how the next generation is doing with it and you can give money away. I mean, giving is so much fun. Like, don't waste it. Don't, don't save that for—

don't waste it on the dead. Yeah.

One thing you guys brought up, the Giving Pledge. If there's one thing about the Giving Pledge that kind of like gets me is that these people are— they give a lot in their lifetime, but they're holding a lot back until they die. Do it in their lifetime. Enjoy the benefits of seeing the gifts right now. I mean, if you can change the world right now, why wouldn't you go do it?

It's so, so true. And, and, well, literally, you can use those donor-advised funds to make, to make giving not something that happens at the very end of your life, as your point, but make it a part of your lifestyle. And where it's not just a train wreck when you pass, but you're actually creating something wonderful, beautiful that is well thought out and makes the impact that you want to make. And it's just so exciting.

Yeah, absolutely.

So when you're doing kind of a succession plan or wealth transition between generations, is that something you have to kind of know upfront and plan out, or is it from an IRS standpoint or whatever, is that have to kind of be blind and kind of do it after the fact, or it seems like it's a loophole, like what you just shared, that you have to do a certain way, but maybe not.

Yeah, there, there is some restrictions to this. You can't have it all the way mapped out. You can't say, okay, we're donating, we're selling, you know, like for example, you cannot have a binding obligation to sell your company before you make the gift. So if you've already said, hey, we've already worked out the terms, this is how you're going to sell it. And then you make a gift. The IRS says, no, they can't do that. So you have to make the gift. And then after the gift is made, you know, you can have some of these things kind of already in place, at least, but not down in paper, not, hey, this is how it's going to be charity. You have to follow this because to get a tax deduction, you have to make an irrevocable unconditional gift to charity, no strings attached. And so that's why we always say it's really important that you know your charitable giving partner. You need to be comfortable with them, that they will follow through with this. Because if you donated an asset to a charity and they say, I don't know what to do with it, and they just fire sale it, that's not good. I want to make sure that you have an understanding and a good working relationship with that charitable partner.

So talk about that angle a little bit, because that's what's unique about a donor advised fund is you're basically giving the authority to, in this case, the signatory to make decisions in the best interest of the constituents, but you'll also work with the donors, right? So talk a little bit about that relationship and how that, how that works.

Yeah. So I'll give you the legal first. So legally, I mean, it is a donor-advised fund. So that language is very key. The donor has advisement rights of where they can recommend for the signatory to send assets, where to invest assets, those types of things. It's an advisement, right? But what we look at as the signatory is really that relationship. If we're working with Ben Fraser, it's the, hey, we, you've set up a donor advised fund, you've donated assets into that fund, and maybe you want us to hold those assets for a long period of time. We want to continue to have that relationship with you to make sure that we are fulfilling what you want. We're not going to sell an asset without, you know, unless you're telling us that you want us to sell that asset. And so it's really that kind of ongoing relationship going forward. And we have donors where we've had long, long-term relationships with them, and now they have passed away and we have a long-term relationship with their kids because now their kids are involved in the donor advised fund. And so that's just, again, it's that importance of relationship and understanding, knowing who you're dealing with.

Right.

So, so just to make this point, I mean, as a donor advised fund, so if I put $1,000 in your donor advised fund, I advise you on where I want you to put this money. But the bottom line is you can do whatever you want to do with this, right? It's, it's, that's the point of why I get the tax deduction. I don't control that money now, but I advise. And so it's, I have to trust that you're going to do what I want you to do with it.

Yeah, absolutely. And there's lots of donor-advised fund groups out there. So this is that IRS, that's, that's across the board. That's not just a thing that every donor-advised fund has that same requirement. And so again, know who you're dealing with.

Right. But the advantage of this is that literally I don't have, I mean, what does it cost if I were going to set up a family foundation? What does it cost? And what is the brain damage I'm going to go through? Because I know, I mean, isn't it hundreds of thousands of dollars per year? And and then you're being audited and it's this endless kind of—

what I've been told. Yeah. If you're setting up a private family foundation, a private foundation, the cost can be significant. What I tell people is you, you don't plan to fund the private foundation with at least $20 million, then just use a donor advised fund. It's not worth the brain damage. But if you're going to put in $20 million plus, and there's certain things that you want to do, then maybe a private foundation makes sense. But yeah, you're right, Bob. It costs a lot of money to set it up.

And it's the brain damage factor. It's just, I mean, really, you're going to be audited. You're going to, I mean, it could be audited every year and they're pushing you on this and that and they want governance things. And, and with the donor advised fund, I don't have to deal with any of that. It literally, it's just you guys handle that. I mean, you have a staff of attorneys, you know, and And, uh, you know, so talk about the signature. I mean, you guys are, you guys are big deals, right? You, you, you take over, you know, haven't you taken over a billion dollars and, and, and you're dealing with billionaires and you have a staff of, you know, tens and, uh, and of super highly trained skilled people who are experts at this stuff and, and you're nice, good guys.

Well, thanks, Bob. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's, we, we do. As the Signatory, we have taken in almost over $5 billion, and about 4 of that has happened in the last 3 or 4 years. We've granted out over at least $3.5 billion of those dollars. And so last year alone, we had nearly $1 billion of contributions and over almost $700 million grants out the door. And so we have people all across the country. Yes, I'm here in the Midwest with you all, but we literally have people coast to coast. Our team is about 70 people on staff and yeah, we're here to help facilitate these crazy generous people. So we have people that give, yeah, $1,000 away every year. We have families that give over $100 million through the Signatory every year. And so there's a variety of people that we get to work with and help. And it's, it's just, again, it's a lot of fun to do what we do.

Yeah. And you guys, you guys, like I said, are experts, but you're available, right? If people want to talk to you, hey, trying to do this or trying to do that, you're really ready to show them what the strategies are and show them best practices and and help them achieve their goals.

Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's what we're, we're here to do.

My goodness.

What's the best way for folks that want to learn more about what you guys do at Signatory to learn about it?

Yeah, I mean, I would say visit our website, www.thesignatory.com. If somebody wants to reach out to me, I'm— my name is Evan, elange@thesignatory.com. So E-L-A-N-G-E@thesignatory.com. Shoot me an email. I'd love to engage in a conversation with you about these strategies. And yeah, I mean, this is what I get to do on a daily basis and I don't have to bill hours. I don't have to charge anybody. So I'm a happy, you know, people, I tell people I'm a great lawyer to call. Just don't call me if you're in jail. I'm not that kind of attorney.

You're not that kind of attorney.

You're not the one on the billboards as you drive by the—

That's not what I do.

Oh man.

Awesome. Well, Evan, this has been so fun and just really, really cool. Fun to kind of add this into the mix. And I really hope our listeners got some value from this and reach out to Evan and the team.

Well, I got to say one more thing. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Bob, for having me on. I know this is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast, so can I give some investment advice? Is that all right? Can I do that?

Well, as an attorney, I'm not sure you should.

Disclaimer.

Go ahead. Jump across.

Okay, just, just do it. Do it.

Jumping across the line. So if you have, if, if your listeners are saying, hey, why would I want to give? And Bob, you already mentioned this, giving is one of the best investments you can make. And a verse that I like to share, it comes from Matthew 6:19-20, and this is what Jesus said. He said, do not lay up for yourself treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will also be. And so, uh, it is the best investment you can make here on earth, uh, by giving. And so give generously, people. It's awesome.

That's perfect. I think, doesn't the Greek actually say, you know, heaven is actually means donor advised fund? I mean, you know, it's translation.

That's right. I'm not, I'm not, I don't know. I am a lawyer. So if this is in Latin, I could help you, but I don't know.

Oh, so good.

So good.

Well, thanks so much, Evan. And, uh, probably have you back on down the road on the part 2. This is so cool. So thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks guys. God bless.

Awesome. That was, that was a fun episode. I really, that was so good. It's, it's so cool. It's refreshing to talk to somebody that is kind of in that space. He's talking with people that are billionaires and this is a big part of what they're doing and wanting to leave a legacy and, and leave an impact. And it's, I feel like we can spend so much time thinking about the multiplication side of things like you were saying, but at a certain point it really shifts to that's really fun and all, but what's the whole point? What's the purpose? I want to do that.

We want to make, change the world a little bit too. And, and there's always, everyone has something in their hearts and this is how do you actually do that? And, uh, you know, and so I think it was so good and, you know, and I just, of course I've known Ammon for a long time and his partner Bill High for even longer. And these guys are the real deal. They're, they're amazing. They're, they're just the highest levels of integrity and honesty. And that's really what you want with your donor advised fund, but Boy, that was so exciting. And there's so many great strategies available to us. What a great interview.

Yeah, that was awesome. Well, hopefully you all listeners enjoyed this episode. If you are enjoying the show, please leave a review. It really helps us get this out to more people, share with a friend or family member. And we always love the feedback. And as we said in the last episode, we've got a lot more exciting things coming down the pipe for this show, including some swag and some fun stuff. So stay tuned. And we really appreciate you being part of this community and listening to the show. Thanks so much.