We Invested $140M in These 4 Asset Classes in 2025

Hey, future billionaires, welcome to the final episode of 2025. And since this is the last one of the year, we've put together, I think, what's going to be a unique and special episode where we will guide you through our year breaking down Aspen Funds capital allocation. So that means how much we've invested, where we've invested it, and our insights that you can use to to make smarter capital decisions in the future. My name is Ellis Hammond, Vice President of Capital, Aspen Funds, and joined with managing partners Bob Fraser and Ben Fraser of Aspen Funds.

Let's do it.

It's been a busy year.

So Ben, let's start with you. Before we break down the numbers, how would you describe 2025 as an allocation environment? Like, did you come into this year thinking this is going to be one of offense? Meaning we're going to deploy a lot of money? Was this more defensive, patience? Talk to me the sentiment if you can rewind the clock 12 months.

That's a great question. And I would say for our existing portfolio, there's been a lot of defense you've got to have been playing with interest rates going up, operations have been challenged in certain areas, and it's really working hard in maximizing operations. But You know, we're always looking ahead at what is the next opportunity and what is the current environment creating as a byproduct that maybe some people are overlooking, but that's actually becoming a big opportunity. So in a lot of ways, you know, our portfolio has been pretty resilient, been pretty strong, and it's allowed us, I think, to focus on some pretty big opportunities. And, you know, we actually have had our biggest year ever from a capital raising and capital deployed standpoint. In the history of Aspen. And so I think that kind of speaks for itself from an offensive standpoint, if you want to call it that. But I think a little bit of both, and it's been a harder market with different asset classes that historically were trading a lot, very active, like multifamily, have been pretty quiet. But other asset classes like industrial, like private credit, like oil and gas, which we'll talk about, it's a great time to be in them.

Bob, at a high level, what determines how much capital Aspen allocates to each vertical in a given year?

I think a few things, but, uh, primarily I would say it's the opportunity we're looking at. We want to place capital where the tides are going, right? And we want to get our capital in front of those tides. And so it's really looking at what's coming and figuring out what are the best places to place capital.

Makes sense. So it's not necessarily, hey, we have a certain number we're trying to do. It's where's the opportunity.

Yeah, definitely. And we're always looking at, you know, of course, a lot of capital was allocated to multifamily in '20, '21, '22. And then you saw the market for multifamily just completely tank in 2023. And so opportunity goes away. And so we're looking at where is the opportunity? You know, our philosophy is that there's always something that's good, right? You know, in famine mode, they're looking at the empty banqueting table sitting in front of them, but there's 3 banqueting tables behind you that are great. And so, it's just identifying, well, where is the right places? I've been through 4 market cycles myself, and there's always something that is great. And so, it's trying to identify what is great and how can we place capital there. And so, we're in a lot of— we're very different from vertically integrated firms that specialize in one single area and that are, you know, you have to place capital because you're trying to keep the doors open, but you're placing capital into deals that are maybe not good into a market that you shouldn't be placing capital in. Because you're driving your own management need. And so we knew that was a temptation decades ago, and we wanted to build a model that avoided that.

Yeah, I mean, to your point, that last point, like you're not doing deals or forcing capital into place 'cause you have to pay overhead.

No, no, no, never.

You have to do deals.

Right, right. We want to be investor-focused, and it's where should capital be placed right now if you were the smartest guy on the planet?

Makes sense.

Okay, cool.

So with that framework in mind, let's walk through where capital actually went in 2025 and why. And so we're going to share with you our— essentially our estimated numbers of where we're going to finish this year in terms of each of our verticals. And so the first vertical, and we'll go in order of allocation size, is oil and gas. And we will finish 2025 with about $65 million of capital into this vertical. And so I'll open this question up for both of you. At the beginning of 2025, what was the strategy for oil and gas investing, and has that changed any by the end of the year?

I'll jump in on that. So we looked back in 2024 was when we started our Fund VI, and that thing, we closed that in 2024 and is the best buying opportunity we have ever, ever seen. We were buying, producing oil and gas assets, de-risked in terms of drilling, de-risked in terms of engineering, de-risked in terms of opportunity. They were producing oil and gas fields, and we're buying those at a 30% cash-on-cash return with, you know, at $65 oil, I believe that was the strip back then. So it's insane. And so we know that this is the most mispriced asset-based investment in the universe today. So we wanted to continue that and do another fund. And today we're saying the prices are not quite as good as they were, but they're still fantastic. So we're buying at a 20 cash on cash and getting proven undeveloped reserves for free still, or maybe giving a little bit of consideration for that. So still an incredible buying opportunity, but maybe not as crazy as it was in 2024. So we're seeing a pretty big surplus right now in oil and gas. Production. So we're seeing about a 2 million barrel per day surplus, and America is literally breaking records right now in oil production. So that means a soft market, right, for oil. That means oil is probably gonna be a little bit depressed. Of course, I'm just seeing the geopolitical backdrop. Who knows? I mean, Ukraine right now is sending drones and destroying Russia's shadow fleet. They just destroyed the Black Sea oil terminal, bombed that. So it's like, who knows what's gonna happen? You know, we don't try to figure that stuff out, right? But we're seeing a surplus, which means this is a buying market. This is a buyer's market, which is predicted to turn into a 7 million barrels per day deficit by 2030.

Bob, let me ask you a question. Why does a surplus equal a buyer's market? Explain that.

Well, surplus meaning there's more oil being produced, 2 million barrels per day extra, being produced above what the world needs and demand. So that speaks of soft oil prices. Well, soft oil prices is the time you want to be buying oil assets, right? So producing oil assets are going to be on sale because everyone's depressed about the oil price. And so, so you're going to get the best price.

Yeah, assuming you have a long-term forecast of oil prices going back up, correct?

And that's our macro thesis. If you've seen any of our macro studies in the last several years, show that oil and gas has been majorly underinvested in the last 7, 8 years to the tune of about half. So energy exploration and development expenditures globally are down by 55% today compared to 8 years ago. And that's going to bite us in the butt because it takes a long time to develop oil fields, long, long time. So we're right now reaping the benefit of what was the investment that was made 10 years ago. So we're playing this big macro thesis. Now, hey, we think we got this right, but there's of course a chance we don't. Meanwhile, we're going to be happy with our 20% cash-on-cash returns, right? So can't beat that. If we're wrong, that's a great way to be wrong, right?

I'll kind of even add that a little bit because you really set a great framework for the macro thesis, the big picture for why oil and gas. I think even a more general comment of where do we see opportunity, it's looking for these mispriced opportunities where the market has told one story, but the actual underlying fundamentals are different from that. And it's difficult to be a contrarian investor because you're usually investing into a fear-based environment, right? In oil and gas. And we hear it all the time. It's, it's over. It's being replaced by renewables. But if you look at the data, it's not, and it's not going to be replaced anytime soon. So for me, you said kind of what's changed from the beginning of the year to the end of the year. I think our macro thesis, our big picture thesis of oil and gas is going to be a great place to be for the next 10 years. That's unchanged. But what has changed, I would say, is with oil prices going down probably about 15% over the course of the year, it actually feels like an even bigger buying opportunity right now, right? Because of what Bob Fraser just said, the short term is creating softness in oil prices, but the long-term story hasn't really changed. And the way that these assets are priced, which is based on the expected future cash flow at the current oil price. So if those prices go down, you're buying the same expected rate of return, but at a lower price. And so we can usually get these assets for, you know, anywhere from 10 to 20% of a discount on a dollar basis from what we could even a couple of years ago. And the other thing that's kind of shifted too is when this kind of bear market or fear market comes into play, a lot of the sellers are holding onto hope of saying, well, I'm just gonna wait till the market comes back up and then I'll sell when the prices are higher. Because no one wants to sell right now. Right. But now that the expectation is that oil prices might be low for the next 12 to 18 months, they're willing to, well, I'll just take the price that I can get. And it's really good time for buyers, right, to go buy into this price because then All the upside in price is pure upside to your cash flow.

Ben, looking ahead to 2026, do you expect oil and gas to be bigger, smaller, or similar allocation as we wrap up this vertical?

Yeah, for Aspen, I think the strategy, the asset class, we're still very bullish on it and will continue to be because we're ending this fund that we've been raising for, is ending at the end of this year. We've got a lot of cash to go and deploy.

The fund isn't ending, the raise is ending. We're closing it to new investment.

Exactly. So next year's going to be time to go shopping, right? We've already bought a couple smaller assets, but from a deployment standpoint, it's going to be very, very big focus for us next year. But from a capital raising standpoint, we've kind of raised all the capital that we are expect to deploy next year.

Although we could see, assuming we get all that deployed, we could see another investment fund starting to place more capital towards the end of the year. We'll see how easily and quickly we can get it deployed, the existing capital.

Yeah, so it doesn't sound like you guys want to stop deploying capital into this vertical.

Oh, no. No, no, no, no. You have to digest once in a while, not just eat.

That's a good way of putting it. Yeah, for sure. Our team is ready to digest, I think, a little bit. OK, so let's go to the next vertical. Being debt and credit. And so this asset class has consumed about $45 million of invested capital in 2025. And so Bob, I'll start with you just because, you know, this is in some ways like the origination of Aspen Funds. How has your view on debt and credit evolved over the course of 2025?

You know, as we've seen again, you know, 2023 was the multifamily crash. You saw interest rates rise 11 times in 2023. And that really just destroyed the commercial real estate market, drove cap rates up and prices down. But we still like real estate. We just don't want to play necessarily in the equity of real estate as much, right? And so the way to play real estate, the smart way to play real estate right now is debt. And so 2024, we launched our private credit fund. And in 2025, we focused on really building that out. Deploying it into really great assets and building our pipeline, strengthening our pipeline, those kind of things. We believe that is just the smartest way to play multifamily in, in 2025. And we're getting equity-like returns with debt risk. So we're taking a tiny fraction of the risk of equity guys and we're getting the same returns or better returns. So We think it's just a really good time to be in credit right now.

So Ben, what's driving the strategy? Would you say, you know, your approach or our approach to private credit right now in 2025?

Yeah, well, I think a lot of our original thesis a few years ago, which was the big run-up in interest rates, expansion of cap rates, short-term debt that was used to finance a lot of these multifamily properties. A lot of operational distress. The bubble popped and we didn't see a lot of that hitting the market right away, but those that are on the inside could see it and feel it. And what happened as a result is a lot of transactions just fell off a cliff. The amount of volume of deals getting done dropped by about 80%. And what happens in those scenarios is banks start pulling back, they get a little bit concerned. The equity investors are stuck in these deals that are having capital calls, and they're a little bit reticent to fund new deals. So what happened is it created this vacuum of capital in the market for new acquisitions. And that's a great place for us to go play, right? We kind of solve for, you know, the kind of middle part of what we call the capital stack, right? You know, behind the debt, but in front of the equity with which is preferred equity. And it's been great. The thesis has proved out. We have way more deals than we can fund, and we get to be very, very choosy right now. And we get to command very, very strong terms for our capital and not only get strong returns, but also have strong control provisions and rights that we get to put into every deal to ensure we can protect the capital. And so, you know, it's been a really, really strong year. We've deployed a lot. Like you mentioned, and we anticipate this actually to expand into next year. I think next year we anticipate being able to deploy potentially 50% to 100% more of what we did this year in deployment because the opportunities, they keep coming in. There's no shortage of it. And I don't see that stopping really in the next 24 months.

Makes sense.

All right.

So let's go to the next asset class coming in third place is multifamily. So this is right at $15 million of invested capital. I'm curious to hear from you guys. I mean, what was your outlook on multifamily coming into 2025? And are you surprised we did any deals in multifamily in 2025? I'm just— I would love to hear.

I have. I think I opened the year, you know, kind of announcing to the team, no multifamily this year. And then we end up doing all this multifamily, you know. The problem was we just kept finding crazy good deals, you know, the deals you couldn't turn down because the terms were so good. We saw a lot of agency assumption deals. This is where we can assume these very low interest rate senior mortgages. And we saw just a lot of really good pricing, you know. So in the distress, a lot of people were not willing to take lower prices, but a few people were. And so we were able to find those. So I would characterize Aspen as reluctant/opportunistic buyers and selective. We argued about this, so Ben probably has a different perspective.

No, I actually agree. The phrase in my mind was kind of, we're kind of more passive observers, but when the deals just get so attractive, you find reasons to say no because you're just busy, but you're like, you know what? I know it's going to be a really good deal. We have to do it. I got to pay attention to this.

We had a couple of those.

I mean, because here's what really happened, right? We just explained what's happening at a broad level and why that creates a big opportunity for private credit. Well, private credit, all the deals we're doing in that fund are new acquisitions that are at reset, new basis at a lower price of a new entry point coming in with the new buying group. And when you reset things by about 25 to 30%, you reset your cost basis, All of a sudden, it looks good. Everything starts to look really good.

Numbers look great.

And in both cases of the two properties we purchased this year, we were the recipient of, you know, the sellers actually losing money and in both cases, losing a substantial amount of their equity that they'd put into the deal a few years ago. And we're buying these at very, very attractive prices. So, you know, when you, when you can, take advantage of that, come on the back end of the cycle. That's continuing to happen. I think it will happen even more going into next year, which is, if we talk about next year, we can share a little sentiment there, but you have to wade through a lot because there's a lot of distress in the market. There's a lot of not great deals, a lot of pigs with lipstick on them that the brokers try and pretty them up. And you go see the property, you're like, "This is not what they say it is." So you have to look through a lot, but there are really good opportunities if you can be patient.

We're looking for financial distress versus operational stress, right?

Exactly.

I mean, ideally. So you're looking for things where the capital stack just is upside down with, you know, variable rate debt on it, etc., etc. But the properties are great.

So that probably answers the question, Bob Fraser, what's driving the caution or maybe even selectivity in multifamily today is you're really looking for things that are operationally on par at least or close to par, but really there's a financial opportunity based on kind of the last 2 or 3 years.

Right. And there's a lot of that out there. We're seeing more and more coming, which kind of leads us to our 2026 discussion. I think we've had a lot of discussions internally, our strategic kind of capital placement team internally at Aspen about where's the 2026 opportunities. And we believe it is time to kind of back up the truck in multifamily, that there's a lot of opportunity for to get these kind of deals, you know, rather than letting deals drop on our doorstep. Whatever happens to be brokered to us or presented to us, to actually go be intentional, be proactive, build a buy box and go look for the perfect kind of deals that we want to source. And so we believe it is time rather than to be passive observers to be aggressive Pac-Man. And start gobbling up all these little juicy multifamily candies. Just came to me, Christmas season. It's a great visual.

Yeah. Anything to add there, Ben, on the '26 outlook?

I think it's been an evolution of our perspective because we have been on the sidelines in multifamily for the past few years on equity. And even going into this year, I would say that was kind of the approach, but again, we just saw these deals. And then what's really happened, I would say, is as we're doing these deals in the private credit fund as preferred equity, I find myself more times than less saying, "You know what? I actually wouldn't mind being equity in this deal because all of a sudden, these numbers are actually really making sense again." So we have this real great pipeline of deal flow where we can see a really broad set of deals come across our desk. And you can start to get a sense of where things are shifting a little bit. And from just a pure underwriting and business plan strategy perspective, you don't have to go take the same level of risks that you had to do a couple years ago, right? You don't have to go and buy at a 3 cap and make your rent growth assumptions 8 to 10% and take floating rate debt and have to put in $20,000 to $30,000 a unit to get, you know, $100 premiums. None of those things have to happen anymore, right? You can go buy with day one cash flow with strong occupancy in a good location in a good market with moderate rent growth, moderate leverage, long-term hold perspective. And all of a sudden, that's a beautiful recipe for, for using the Christmas themes, maybe some, you know, spiked eggnog or something.

This is getting out of hand. But I do, I do understand. I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, what you're saying is it's kind of coming back to a common sense approach to multifamily investing versus trying to really force— to Bob Fraser's point earlier— having to do deals to fund operations versus actually, you know, having a good strategy that can actually make money is the idea. All right, let's go to the last vertical. I think this is last but certainly not least in terms of our focus, is industrial. So just under multifamily at $14.5 million is where we think we'll end the year. We might this might surpass multifamily by things wrap up at the end of 2025. But as of right now, it's about $14.5 million. And so, guys, what role did industrial play? You know, because we've shifted a little bit, right? We've done some different things. So what role did industrial play in the strategy at the start of 2025 versus how we're ending today?

I'll jump in there. I think we were watching the market. So what happened in 2023 and 2024 the market, the industrial development market kind of put their pencils down. So any new developments that were anticipated were just stopped. So people stopped kind of investing or stopped building. And the market really was on hold, right? Just waiting to see what would happen with the elections. You know, people weren't leasing, industrial companies weren't leasing there. Everybody had a wait-and-see kind of attitude. And what happened as soon as January turned over, we just have seen a ton more interest in all things industrial and seems like potential tenants and big manufacturing and logistics companies, et cetera. All everybody is like back in the game now and looking at real estate and wanting to solve their real estate needs. We were expecting that that would happen in 2024 and didn't see as much as we wanted. And then it, it really started happening. So I think it just reinforced our idea to really put the pedal to the metal in this. We believe in our macro thesis as much as any macro thesis we've ever had. And we have a really good operation as far as industrial development goes. And so we're thinking, let's go and make this happen. And then we're able to get control of a bunch of land. And land is the key. When you get the land, you have optionality. You can control what happens. That's what happened to us, really creating the, the Industrial Growth Fund and It's kind of been off to the races, and I'm pretty excited personally about the future here.

Yeah, I would say, you know, this has been a macro theme we've talked about for 5 years, 4 or 5 years with pretty strong conviction. And we're seeing these things happen in real time. And at the kind of ground level, it's really starting to pick up. I mean, it's exciting to kind of see some of the activity that's transferring from a, here's the mantra, here's the ethos of reshoring, nearshoring to actual deals getting done on the ground. And this year, it's been interesting because we're in the middle of a few developments, so we're not deploying capital per se. Those have already been deployed and they're kind of finishing up or in process. But a lot of the capital we deployed this year was, to Bob Fraser's point, all in strategic land acquisitions. And we are under contract or have purchased just under 500 acres of land. And I'm really, really curious to see what this number looks like next year because we're really building a pretty big kind of strategic bank of land to go and start some vertical construction. But next year, we anticipate moving pretty quickly on some of those.

Now, when you say land, of course, people think of, okay, let's go buy this old farm and maybe someday, the growth trajectory of a the town will grow into that. That's not what this is, right? We are buying infill land.

This is—

there is really no other land available for sale around this area in the main industrial areas of Wichita and Kansas City on the I-35 corridor. So this is prime land. That's really the last available land. Absolutely prime.

Why the I-35 corridor, Bob? Explain that and kind of what's driving your conviction.

Yeah, the I-35 corridor has really become a main theme for us after, you know, visited El Paso, Texas and saw what's happening there. We're seeing, we're hitting the macro themes here, but the wage in China, the manufacturing wage in China is now quite a bit higher than Mexico. It's actually cheaper to manufacture in Mexico. And Mexico has a huge amount of expertise in manufacturing, engineering, et cetera. And so we're seeing Mexico going to really eclipse China from an import into America perspective. Everything is going to come up via the I-35 corridor pretty much. And then from there you can go 40 west and east and then I-70 west and east out of Kansas City. So everything is coming up here. And this is why CBRE, big real estate giant, is calling Kansas City a supernode. So we see I-35 corridor and specifically Kansas City is just the ultimate industrial opportunity, the ultimate industrial zone where everybody wants to be. And not only that, you have your very significant population centers and you do want that. People don't want to live out in the middle of nowhere and you need staff who are willing to, you know, have a good lifestyle with their family and yet work in these industrial kind of hubs. So it's a pretty crazy good opportunity right now. And we use this again, it feels like we got just really lucky while everybody has pencils down, the rest of our competitors, we're out there snapping up the prime land. And when, when no one's that interested in that right now, right? And we are. So we just got a little bit ahead of the game. So from there, we get the land entitled, immediately double-ish the value of that land. And then you can flip the land out to people who do want to develop it, or we can put a sign on it and do a build-to-suit, or we can do spec builds, which we're happy to do. And we've had great luck with our spec builds and we're going to continue. You know, it turns out people don't want to lease something they can't see, right? Soon as the walls go up, everybody starts calling you, wants to lease it. I think that's just a great opportunity.

And so with 400 acres under contract or we own, I mean, 500.

Yeah, yeah.

400 to 500, a steady allocation, 26, or this is going to be a bit of a bigger vertical. What's your outlook as you think about industrial for Aspen?

Yeah, I think it's going to grow next year because we anticipate doing a lot of development on the land. So this year was, you know, kind of under the radar. Buying these strategic land acquisitions. We didn't do any new development this year we raised for, but next year, we've got several teeing up. And we've got a pipeline of probably close to $500 million of industrial real estate we could build that we'll be putting together over the next several years. But pretty exciting because it's a great time. We've got some amazing locations and have had a great track record in our developments. And so I anticipate this number will be probably quite a bit larger next year.

So as we wrap up, I want to wrap up having our audience in mind, you know, in the core themes that either were introduced or reinforced in 2025. So as you both look back as a whole from this year, did anything meaningfully challenge or like I said, reinforce Aspen's overall investment thesis?

I would say, like I mentioned, with industrial and even oil and gas and even debt and credit, these are themes we've been talking about for a while, but it's helpful to see those play out in real time. And I think when the market kind of turns a little bit and there's a lot of fear and sentiment's negative, we've continued to have very exciting opportunities that are really good timing to get into them. And in a lot of ways, I feel like now is a great time to be gobbling up Pac-Man style, like Bob said, because that's when a lot of opportunities get overlooked because people are pencils down or they're making decisions based out of fear. And so, it feels like a lot of the things that are getting purchased, invested in, bought now, and really the next, I think, 12 months, you're going to be really well positioned going into the full cycle there going forward.

I'll say, I think the reality of high interest rates and high cap rates in the real estate space, man, exits are still not here. And I find myself getting impatient for exits, right? The exits we planned on, and it's more of a waiting game. Everything turns, everything has its day, right? And Right now, we're in a waiting time, but capital will come back and demand will come back and we'll see cap rates start to go down and prices come up again. And meanwhile, we're just focusing on getting our operations tight, getting cash flows up, but find that there's a lot of other ways that do— while we're waiting on the exits for the capital that has been deployed, there's some things that we can get income today. And I find myself pretty excited about those things, like the industrial, which we are seeing cap rates haven't risen much in there and we're seeing, we're building at an 8+ yield to cost and exiting at a 6 cap so that we're building in profits from day one right there. Plus our oil and gas has great cash flows today. And then also the debt stuff really has great cash flows. So I think for me, it's more of, okay, we'll put that kind of portfolio, the legacy portfolio, we'll put that on, we'll get that solid. We'll play the waiting game, the long game there while we're going to go after the cash in other ways in these other three areas. So, so it's a good game, maybe a little less satisfying than watching the jackpot ring up. But, you know, we're just watching the steady cash flows instead of the jackpots, right?

Because last question here for investors listening, what's the right mindset looking forward as heading into 2026? What's your mindset, not just as maybe the CFO or CIO of Aspen, but as a personal investor heading into 2026? What is your mindset?

The first thing I think of, right, and we have these conversations with investors a lot of Looking at the past few years and feeling some scars from some investments that didn't go as they thought and trying to have confidence to keep placing capital, right? And I think it's important to learn from things that a hard economic cycle, a hard real estate cycle has exposed, but also use it as a learning experience. And I think now is a great time to be deploying capital, right? We've talked about this in other episodes, but Just like dollar cost averaging works in the public markets, dollar cost averaging works in the private markets, right? Being— investing chunks of capital every year into different verticals and different asset classes and different vintages of time, because you can get different parts of the cycle. And I think from my perspective, being on the front lines of the acquisitions teams and looking at the opportunities we're seeing, it just feels like a lot of normalcy has kind of come back to the marketplace, like you mentioned earlier, Ellis, where, you know, it's just not so overheated where you have to just stretch on crazy assumptions to make something work. And in a lot of ways, it's the opposite, right? It's like, man, I kind of— this deal seems too good, but I've pounded everything that I can. And so I think it's a good time. I think learn from those mistakes, but also be looking for those opportunities that fit with your goals and you know, as an investor.

Well, it's interesting point you make too, especially for those who maybe who've had a really good run over, you know, when real estate's maybe not had a great run over the last 2 or 3 years, you've had an incredible run in the stock market. It does bring up a good point of like, seems like maybe things are shifting a little bit where things are clearly very frothy in the public markets and things are coming back to normalcy in the private markets, you know, as folks are looking to maybe make that transfer or make that shift into alternatives. I think it's a really good point you make there, Bob. Same Question to you for investors listening, what's the right mindset heading into 2026?

Yeah, I'll pull in the public markets here. We saw the last 2 years have been the top-performing public markets, I think, of any time. I mean, it was what, 23%, 24% returns? Is that going to continue? Extremely unlikely. And so I think it's a good time to take some profits there and put them into a market that is down. It's a rebalancing time. Let's go pull some gainers. Take some cash out of the gainers and go place it into the stuff that's been hit. And that commercial real estate certainly qualifies for the opportunity side. So I think that's a good game. And let's not get disappointed with any losses as investors and just continue to place capital in a disciplined way. This year's a year our book came out, Ben and I's book, and really it's, for me, it's reinforced this idea of discipline. Of be disciplined investors. Don't be emotional investors. And that means work your allocations and do your rebalancing. And no one's going to bat 1,000 in this game. The best you can do is be disciplined and it works, right? If you're disciplined, it works.

Future billionaires, that's a wrap for 2022. Thank you so much for all of your support this year, and we look forward to seeing you in 2026.

Stay tuned.