What 10,000 High-Net-Worth Investors Are Actually Doing Right Now

But we've also seen over the past year a 77% reduction in new investments in private debt.

Wow.

I could say from speaking with a lot of our user base clients, people are taking a moment to better educate themselves on deploying capital into the private markets.

In the public markets, you kind of can throw money at the wall and something's going to stick. And the difference between the best performers and the worst performers really isn't that much. In the private markets, you cannot do that.

Most investors think that they know where the smart money is going, but a lot of that is based on the headlines, opinions, and what other people say that they're doing. What's much harder to see is what investors are actually doing with their portfolios in real time. And that's exactly why I'm excited about this conversation. We're joined by Latanya Hov, CEO and co-founder of Vizer, a platform that tracks billions in private wealth across real estate, private equity, and other alternative investments. And what he's seeing right now with investment portfolios might change how you're thinking about your next investment and your allocation. Let's dive in. All right, excited to have this episode with our friend and returning guest, Laton of Vizer. Laton, how you doing, man?

I'm amazing. Thank you guys for having me. So much fun talking with you guys.

Yeah, it's so fun. You know, we had you on, I don't know, probably a year, couple years ago, um, right when Vizer was getting going. Uh, we actually did a Email to a lot of our investors, a lot of investors are using Visor now as a great software service. We saw you at a conference recently, heard you give a presentation on some of the data that you're doing. Honestly, I was pretty surprised to hear how much data you have in the system now as you've been growing. I believe it's billions of dollars in private assets that you're tracking across your platform. We just thought it'd be great to bring you back on, hear the update of what you're working on at Visor, and then really, you know, what you're seeing on the platform, trends that you're noticing, and just from the sample size that you have now, a lot of things that we can benefit from as LPs. So excited to have you on.

I appreciate it. Yeah, so we, we currently track almost $30 billion in assets, and I was just always really intrigued from a data standpoint about how people like how, how the industry reports on trends and asset allocation and where people are putting money. And surprising or not, almost every community institution that, that sends out or prepares these reports, they're all based on survey data, or most of them are based on survey data. And that was like mind-blowing to me. Like, you're showing me an asset allocation report of how people allocate to private equity, private credit, real estate, or whatever you want to break it down. And it's based on what people are saying they're doing. Like, that's just— I don't know, I was shocked. And so we looked, we said, why don't we take our actual data, and obviously it's all anonymized, it's all aggregated, there's like no personal information, it's just like from a very high, high level, and let's see if we can identify any trends across our dataset. And I think it's just really interesting for our user base, for the industry as a whole, to look how that evolves. Uh, and, and that's what I, I talked about at the conference we were at. A couple of months ago, and I'm happy to dive into any aspect of that data. It is really important. And I also gave this disclaimer because— so we're— Vyzer is built as a platform to serve families with complexity. Usually complexity comes out of investing in the private markets because you have documents flowing in and out, you have cash flow flowing in and out, you have multiple investor portals to log into. Like that doesn't happen as much in the public markets. And so we're very much skewed to people that are invested in the private markets. So everything like I've shared or I will share is you have to take with a grain of salt because it's focused on that market. But even within that market, it's really interesting to see the trends like the flip that happened between Q4 of '24, Q4 of '25 in our audience was like mind-blowing between privates and publics. So yeah, I'm happy to dive into stuff.

So let's back up for just a minute because I'm not sure everyone gets the picture here. So, so you run a, a, a portal, a, a software application called Visor that individual investors use to track their portfolios. And I'm actually, I'm actually a customer. I love this program, just by the way. But so what you do is you— it connects to all your bank accounts and your 401s and, um, your IRAs, all your investment accounts. You also put in all all your private ownership, like your real estate portfolios, including your house, your whole financial picture, all is uploaded in there. And then it keeps it all current. And then you also interface with the portals of the sponsors. So, you keep this stuff even live updated. So, when Aspen comes out with a new financial report, you guys actually upload that into your portal and have uploaded data. So, so the very cool thing is you can actually see what's really happening, right? You can see not what people say they're doing, but what they're actually doing. And as you pointed out, and again, I think this is, this is missed, is that so most, most like, like reporting of how, how sponsors are doing, it is surveys. It's not actual data. Most reporting of how, of how investors are allocated, it's surveys. It's people responding to questionnaires. It's not actual data. And yours is different because it's actual data. Am I right? And so you can actually tell us really how people really are allocated, how their behavior is really changing, how many people are getting creamed in different aspects, how these investments are actually doing, right? So you have a lot of data all behind the scenes because you can aggregate all this. And as you say, you're not exposing anybody's individual data, but you can, you can certainly sum it all and see, see big trends. So I can't wait to, to hear about this. So I want to find out exactly what's happening.

All right, I appreciate the kind words, Bob. Um, and I'm glad you're a happy customer. So, so just, I mean, you guys want me to dive in high level what we're saying? So if we start from the top and we just look at a very, very 70,000 feet look at a portfolio. And if I go that high, I took it— we look at a portfolio, there's cash, there's privates, and there's publics at the very basic level from an asset allocation perspective. And if we look at publics and privates in our portfolio, Q4 of '24, 27% of our average client's portfolio was in the public markets. 27% at the end of '24. The end of '24, 69% was in privates. All right. So you fast forward to the end of '25, Q4 '25, publics grew to 35% of a portfolio. That sounds— it's like only an 8% increase, but that's huge when you look at trillions, billions of dollars. And privates went down 61%. Now, this is all, you know, out of 100%. So obviously people will say, well, of course, Liton, I mean, there was a rally on publics, their valuations went up. So the portfolios as a whole went out of whack and out of proportion. So that's the reason for this. And so we went a level deeper into not just a snapshot of a portfolio, but rather to look dollars deployed, right? So every quarter we looked at every dollar deployed, what percentage went into privates, went in, went into publics. And we also break it down. One level underneath privates and publics is equities or debt, right? Because, because that's also important, right? In the publics you have equity and debt, and then the privates, you also have equity and debt positions. So I'm— the vast majority, again, of our portfolios that people invest is in equities, not debt. And so I'm just going to tap into the, to the equity for a second. So in Q4 of '24, 60% of every dollar invested, deployed, went into the private equity market. Private equity is everything in the private markets. That's an equity position. Okay. So, you know, it's not— I'm not— when I say private equity, I don't mean the conventional— like some, by the way, you don't mean PE. Well, that's a whole conversation we can have for an hour about terminology of the financial world, like private equity. Private real estate is— if you hold real estate, you can hold real estate in private equity and private debt, public equity, public, right?

Never mind.

Yeah. All right. Forget it. It's a whole conversation. So anyway, yeah, it's private equity. 60% of every dollar invested went into the private markets under equity positions. Q4 of '25, 60% of every dollar invested went into public equities. Like, and remember, we're a platform that serves people that are predominantly in the private markets. Now, that for us Mind-blowing. And it also, it matches— and Bob, you probably have a lot to say about this— like, it matches the trends that are happening that, you know, people have been seeing what's happening in the public markets, and they maybe they want to take part of it as well. And private markets over the past couple years, you know, have had struggles. And so that's sort of what we've seen across portfolios. I'm sure you guys are smarter than me in sort of the insights and why it's happening. I'm just telling you what has happened on our system.

What you're saying is at the end of '24, for most '24, 60% of every dollar that was deployed, not just at a snapshot at the end of the year, was going into private equity. In '25, that flipped to 60% of every dollar that was being invested in '25 was going into public equities.

Q4 of '25, the last quarter.

Okay. Just in the last quarter.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, the trend went up. In Q3, It was 44% in publics and Q2 was 35%. So it just, it went up throughout the year.

Yeah. I think a lot of that is interest in AI and the fact that, you know, private performance has been abysmal, you know, across the board. You know, what other insights are you seeing and what do you, what's your conclusions?

I mean, it's, I think people wanted to get part of the game. They got burned in privates. You know, everything you just mentioned, I totally agree. But again, I don't know for sure. This is such a guessing game of why it happened. Again, I just show you what happened.

Do you have any data on losses incurred? You know, I mean, we saw, you know, end of '22 and all '23, we saw interest rates, you know, being raised 13 times by the Fed and just crushed so many many private investments and really exposed the syndicator bubble, exposed Ponzi schemes, and exposed a lot of things. And so a lot of losses. Are you tracking that and what data do you have on that?

So it's a great question. I don't have data to share exactly on numbers. I can say that we have had many of our LPs, our users who are LPs in different funds or with different syndicators, who are part of these, who have invested in these deals, who went sideways. And we've put them together. And I guess GPs won't like this as much. We put them together in their own groups to discuss and collaborate on what they can do. And that's in those situations where they're in a Ponzi scheme or the GP isn't answering them or all these different situations. But I think it is an interesting data point that we need to extract about, you know, putting a number on top of it, how many of those occurred. I can say we've put together many of those groups over the past year.

So, so, I mean, do you have any data on, yeah, GPs that went dark or GPs that underperform pro formas? Any, anything, anything to do with the downside?

Unfortunately, I don't have good large data. I have names of GPs, but I don't know if I, if I can share them here.

Um, I'd go there, but I'm not sure Ben wants us to go there.

Yeah.

So you, you actually have a, you have a poop list, right, of, of people that you know, of deals that you know, and sponsors you know that are, that are, that are really— have really not done well, right, and are being irresponsible or hiding.

And it's, it's, it's— yeah, I mean, remember, because we are pulling data for our clients from everywhere, that also means we're CC'd on emails, right, from the GPs, right? And that means we We know which GPs are— have gone dark and aren't answering, um, or where they've had capital calls, or they've obviously stopped distributions. And, um, and so, yeah, but, but we haven't quantified that. And it's a really great point, Bob. And we should, we should do that because we've, we've looked at more, I'd say, dry data of, you know, where money has gone, not as much where it's been lost, which is an interesting question to ask. We should ask ourselves that question as well from a data standpoint.

Interesting. So what are you doing with this list? I mean, it's a pretty valuable list and it's a good list too, right? You have a list of the guys that are maintaining and doing well and performing, right? And I mean, you know, so we've seen the tide's gone out and it's exposing everybody, right? You see the garbage and you see the good, right?

So we're focused 100% on serving our clients. And so the goal is, you know, how do we help them around those situations? And that's why we started to put them together, because, you know, as a group they have more means to get some sort of outcome.

So what do you mean you're putting together groups? What does that mean?

No, just like connecting each other. So if I'm an LP invested with a bad operator— or not about—

or you're introducing them to each other Exactly.

And I've heard a lot of GPs not liking that as much because, you know, I can imagine. Yeah, yeah.

Let's, let's keep them divided and confused, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's— I mean, it's also— it's a double-sided. So at the end of the day, you know, even you guys, you guys have an amazing firm and you guys see the value in creating the community within your investors. And, and that's also one of the people, one of the reasons people want to invest with some of these operators who put those groups together, because they also want that sense of community. They want to interact, ask questions with each other and be better investors. And I think GPs who choose the other side of like, you know, separate and not allow GPs or LPs to interact is wrong. I know it's about— we can get back to data if you want, but let's get back to the data.

And, you know, just as you were talking, one of the insights I was just thinking to, you know, when you made the comment that, you know, this service is really skewed towards people that are already in the private markets and so about 70% at the end of '24 was in private markets. Most of the data sources that we've seen that are, again, reported data, so how accurate is it? No one knows, but it's usually from these larger groups like Tiger 21 and the other public institutional investments. It's usually, I would say, roughly 50/50 between publics and privates. Obviously, there's some variance there, but One insight could be from the inflows of last year into more publics is your avatar, the people that use your service, are already overweighted in privates. Now, some of the concerns and things that have happened from having losses, from having no liquidity, maybe there's this reversion back to maybe more normalized portfolio. Although 50/50 is very abnormal anyway for most retail investors, but that's just one other other thought too that could, could be driving it. I—

there's also, you know, there's some more data points we can talk about. Like, one of them is also the, the world of private debt, private credit, which has been in the news over the past couple weeks or months with the, you know, not the best light that's shed on it at the moment, with redemption requests that are, you know, going beyond and all, and all the craziness that's happening there. But we've also seen over the past year a 77% reduction in new investments in private debt. And it's not, it's not a big percentage of new dollars allocated. So, you know, if we take privates, publics, right, 60% went into privates in Q4 and then 40% went into privates in Q1 '25. So it's a very small percentage, like we're talking around, you know, a little under 2% in Q4 of '24 went into private debt. And then Q4 of '25, it's like 0.4% of every dollar invested. So also people allocated a lot less capital into private debt, which I was really surprised to see, to be honest. I didn't know. I thought private debt was still a really strong asset class. A lot of people wanted to invest in and were investing in, but compared to other asset classes, it also got hit from on our platform.

You know, give us the, give us the breakdown of your investors as far as net worth. I mean, what, what is, what are the net worth range? How can you define your, your, your investors? They're typically not billionaires, right? So what's, what's the range that you're seeing? What's the histogram?

Um, it's, it's a great question and we're always surprised because we've had people who come to us who are you know, worth, you know, close to a billion net worth. Very rare. But we have people like that and we have people who are, you know, around a million. And so I'd say the average active user on Vizer is probably 15, 16 million net worth. That's the average. So, yeah, I mean, even when you— so we're a startup, right? When you— when we talk to investors and we're asking, what's our target, you know, ideal client profile? And it's really easy to ask or look at it from a net worth perspective, but it doesn't really matter the net worth perspective. It's the complexity. Like, I've spoken with people that are worth, you know, $50 million who don't have any private investments. They're not going to use us.

Yeah, sure. Your platform is incredible. But, you know, it's also, you know, it just informs the data you're giving us, right? Are these— are these what— are these, you know, more the, you know, just the low-end accredited investors, you know, $1 to $5 million, or is this the, you know, $5 to $10 million, or is this, you know, the ultra-high net worths, $50 million and above, you know, that kind of thing. So it clearly is a range. I'm sure you have, you know, it's a— it's a bell curve, right?

I haven't checked the median. Recently, but the average is around $15 million net worth.

Gotcha.

Okay.

I didn't have the advantage of seeing your presentation at BEC, so give us some other data points.

Obviously, because we're interested in the private markets specifically, you know, private equities is what was the most interesting over the past year and the shift. We also wanted to break it down and see within the private equity space, we have, you know, 4 gross categories. We have real estate, we have venture, collectibles and commodities, and, you know, traditional businesses. So those were like the 4 categories we took within the private equity space. And the interesting part is if you looked at Q4 '25, '24, like the end of '24 basically, and you look at, let's say, traditional businesses, traditional businesses, you know, you know, operating businesses that people invest in, not real estate related. It was almost 40% of every dollar that went into private equity investments went into traditional businesses, operating businesses. That dropped to around 10% in the end of '25. Now, the interesting thing that I was also, you know, surprised about was real estate. So real estate If you look at the private equity space, the end of '24, also around 40% went into real estate. What do you think happened in '25 to real estate? Did it go down or go up?

The way you're framing it, I'm going to say it went up.

Yeah, I would want to say down, but yeah, it almost doubled.

Wow.

Almost doubled. It's like 75%. Oh, interesting. Every dollar that went into private equities in Q4— during, sorry, during Q4 went into real estate. So, so real estate is, is still the largest chunk of deployed capital in the private equity space despite it getting hit because interest rates over the past couple of years.

And this is all data that is new capital deployed, not necessarily just portfolio snapshot, right?

It's new capital deployed. In a, you know, a overarching category that shrunk. Right. So that's important, right? Because, you know, it's percentage-wise. So remember, privates went down to 40% of every dollar invested compared to 60% the previous year. But within now those privates, real estate like doubled. So the dollars that did go into privates predominantly went into real estate. As opposed to the other venture or traditional businesses, commodities and collectibles. So that's, that's, that's a, that's another interesting data point. And now within the real estate category, which is where most of the capital went, I mean, I'm not going to quiz you guys. I'm interested in what you guys think from an intuition standpoint. Where did most of it go?

I would say multifamily just because of the size of the asset class and then maybe industrial, you know, those will be my two guesses which—

so don't tell me office? No, no, not often. So yeah, listen, you can ignore that multifamily is the largest asset class within real estate by far. I'm looking at this from a number of deals now. Okay. Not dollars but number of deals. Dollars, you know, it totally skews it off differently. But number of deals done. So in '24, 56% of every real estate investment on our platform went into multifamily. It did drop though in '25. So now '25 is still the largest asset class, but it's 46%. Like, that's a big drop as well. 56% down to 46%. And the dollar— the number of deals that went up this might be— it's still small numbers, but it did more than double. Mobile home parks went up substantially in '25 compared to '24 based on number of deals, not number of deals invested. Yeah, the people invested in and industrial also went up. It's probably the largest that went up after multifamily. It went up from 13% in '24 to 16% in, in, in '25. Again, these are small numbers, but because multifamily still takes up the most of it. But, you know, people thought, or as an LP investor talking with LP investors around, it's like no one's investing in real estate, multifamily is dead. But on the flip side, you know, it's still kicking and people are investing and people are making money and writing checks. So that's interesting.

You know, you know, LaTawn, we've— we did our, you know, update 2026 kind of financial update or economic update for the year and really and called the bottom in commercial real estate in several categories, including multifamily, industrial, and retail. And of course, you know, you know, we'll see if we're right. But we did— we did say that this is our position and So it would be a good time to begin placing capital. So it really tells me that investors, you know, these investors are intelligently placing capital. You know, you know, typically what I've seen as a public market analyst is you see a lot of chasing of very late trends and it's a mistake, right? So you see everybody, you know, the dot-com boom, for example, everybody got in way too late and continued to plow money in after everything was falling. Right. And most people lost money. And I tell that whole story in my book. And so people's guts, you know, the public market investors are really off, right? People generally make really bad mistakes. They buy at the top and they sell at the bottom and they just do exactly opposite. But what this is telling me is your investors and maybe a little bit more sophisticated, maybe a little bit more well-off, I mean, certainly more well-off, are actually making very well-timed decisions. possibly.

Well, I mean, but to go one step further, because I was going to make the same point with the public market allocation. Obviously, that was the largest allocation last year, and one of the charts that, that we showed in our forecast was the, the inverse relationship between valuations or P/E ratios and then the subsequent 10-year returns, right?

And it kind of makes sense that the higher valuation in the in the public markets, right? So you find people are chasing that in my view, right? But, you know, again, we'll see, you know, no one's crystal ball is perfect, but we'll see. So.

I could say from speaking with a lot of our, you know, a lot of our user base clients and some new initiatives we're taking around educating people around the private markets is I feel like people are taking a moment to better educate themselves. On deploying capital into the private markets. So people are still writing checks, just trying to be smarter about it. Because if you ask someone 4 or 5 years ago, there was such a herd mentality and the FOMO feeling that I'm just going to invest, it'll be all right, trust my gut. And then people lost money. People are still sitting on money, but they're not— they don't want to trust their gut as much. And so they're enhancing their toolbox to be smarter investors, more sophisticated to make better decisions. And I think that's why you see better— I think capital is being deployed into a smaller group of operators that people have made a decision that these are the ones I want to bet on.

That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. There's one of my favorite charts in our book was chart from JPMorgan that shows the difference between public markets and private markets. In, in the public markets, you kind of can a little bit throw money at the wall and something's going to stick. Right. And the difference between the best performers and the worst performers really isn't that much. And typically in REITs, for example, the difference between the top quartile and the bottom quartile, it was really minimal, 1.5 percentage points of return. In the private markets, you cannot do that. You can't throw money randomly at sponsors. The difference between the top performers and the bottom performers is orders of magnitude. I mean, it's the difference between doubling the returns of the privates just in real estate, for instance, or losing money, not making any return and getting a negative return. So, you know, so it's interesting. I'm glad to hear that, right, that people are taking the time to educate educate themselves. And, um, you know, you as an investor, you really can differentiate yourself. You really can beat the market in the private space. In the publics, you really can't. It's really not possible to beat the market.

I agree. You're also taking much bigger bets in the privates just because the access is much higher, right? And so, true, the minimums.

Yeah, yeah. It makes a lot of sense too, because you really think about, in the grand scheme of things, access for retail investors into private markets is still pretty young. This is maybe a decade and a half where the average retail investor could have access. And so to your point, when there's this big run-up in the— we call it the syndication bubble, where everyone decided they could be a syndicator and operate real estate, it was kind of just throw money at it. But now there's kind of this reset and a lot of learnings, a lot of takeaways. And to your point, a lot of maybe the inexperienced operators are not staying in the space and there's a smaller group of maybe more experienced, more capitalized sponsors that are taking the majority of the capital. What other insights are you seeing from LPs? And then really tie that into with Vizer. What are you guys doing and what's kind of the next things on your kind of development program of features and things that you want to add to your service and just helping transparency in the space.

Wait, before we go there, oil and gas. How many of your investors made the really smart play and got into energy?

So I think so. You know, we put together our own SPV, right, with you guys because we have amazing data that supports that. You guys are awesome and good. You know, have a great track record. And so, you know, we have invested with you guys and oil and gas as a category. I can't say it's a, it's a large category, but I do think it's growing. I don't have the data exact to, you know, to say exactly where and how much it's at. I do, I do think that LPs who do invest in oil and gas besides thinking that it's a, you know, it's, it's, it's a need in the economy from, from a geopolitical standpoint, energy is a big bet on the future. So put that aside for a second. You know, when people think oil and gas, they think two things from a low to low, a non-sophisticated to medium sophisticated investor. It's there's cash flow and there's tax advantages potentially. I think the tax advantages mainly misunderstood from an LP perspective. People think, oh, every, every oil and gas deal I'm going to do is there's going to be tax advantages. And I think the reality is, and you guys can say better than I, you usually don't get any tax advantages as an LP, like as much as people think that you're going to offset all your active income. And so, so I think, I think those are kind of the two high-level attributes that people associate with oil and gas. Personally, I think it's the bet because we need more energy. And that is the— regardless of all the other things people use oil for, that is still the foundation. Not to mention the whole crisis that we're going through. And we can have a conversation about that. And I don't— that's kind of— I don't know what to call it. Would you call it a black swan event, Bob? The whole— the whole war? All right. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's got all these kind of durable demand drivers of the fact that it's needed. And then it's got these, these black swan potential drivers that you never know if or when And they, they, they happen and here we are in the middle of it, you know, but, but they just are, you know, boost the returns, you know, so, but you don't need it to do well in oil and gas. Anyhow, that was a step aside. I just want to know if you need data. So go back to Ben's, Ben's question about where are you guys headed? What do you, what do you see you're going to, you're offering? And I'll throw in another one. What are you going to do with this list of A players that you're, that you're clearly your secret list of, of A players? You're going to, can I buy that from you for $100 or what? You know, what are you going to do?

I have a lot of thoughts and long-term plans for what we want to do and what we want to build. The biggest problem in any tech company, specifically around software, is deciding what you want to focus on, what will bring the most value now, because you go down this rabbit hole of building and building without— just because you think, but that's not what they need. So there's a bunch of different aspects that are happening on the platform. But I think the main thing that we're trying to implement across the board is, is adding as much agentic flows as possible to want to add more value, but also be much more efficient on how we operate as a business and how fast we deliver value to our clients. It goes from, you know, pulling data from the investor portals and automating that process more than it is today and analyzing documents that are sent into our vault. To extract more data from them. And then there's the whole large data set of the trends I've talked to you guys about, which we don't have any sort of live embedded aspects of that in the platform that can also give more insight on the fly to our user base. Um, so there's, there's the operational improvements you want to create within the platform, and then there's the value add to our user base that we want to also add, and those across multiple fronts. To your point, Bob, on the A-list, like, I still think $30 billion is a good number, but I think we need much more than that in order to cover enough of the industry. Like, it's a multi-trillion-dollar industry, right? $30 billion is very small. It's big compared to anyone else.

Yeah, $20 trillion is the alt space. Yeah.

So it's still very small. I want to grow it, you know, to be much bigger. And then once we have the ability Because I'll go back for a sec. When we started this, we built it for ourselves, right? Because we had an exit event 10 years ago. You know, we invested, we had a mess, we built a visor for us. And when I started to talk with friends like, listen, Ethan, like, I don't want to deploy capital in the privates. I just want a button. Give me the button where I just click a button and my money, you know, is deployed. And they're like, all right, I understand. When you think about most people who work with financial advisors, even the family offices, Many times that's what they want as well. They don't want to deal with their money. They want someone else to deal with it for them. Right. And so I think in the private market, that still hasn't reached that level of autonomous investing. But if I can create the ultimate fund of funds that invests across all the top players we see on our platform, I think that has the potential to create diversification, but among the best, which creates alpha.

That's great. Great idea.

I mean, down the road when you have enough data to create that, that's like where I want to go with these A-players. In the meantime, we've built a whole new offering for our user base. Well, anyone can, can use it as well, which is because of this dataset and because of our access to the market data, we've created a, a, a, we call it the Investor Committee Agent, where you upload deal documents and it scores it does background checks, public market, like publicly available data sources, Visor data sources, some other data sources we're adding to give you a bottom line score of that deal. And it takes into account the GP and the deal itself and the markets and all sorts of stuff.

So what, what Visor data sources does it access?

No.

So it takes the 30 billion of data that we have. That's the data. That's at the moment, that's a data source as a whole. And that's, you know, do you—

does it, does it, does it correlate with, you know, with VIZOR indications of performance?

Well, historic performance. I'll give you an example. If we see someone's raising capital for a multifamily value-add deal in a specific state for a specific vintage of an asset, and we'll go and we'll find, right, what, what's, what was the performance on a similar type of deal in a similar location with the same, you know, same operator or different one and see the benchmark. Does that make sense? It's— or I think, you know, one of the things that people don't—

so you're not necessarily using the data, you know, about whether guys have gone dark or face-planted or whatever. Not necessarily.

Not yet. It's really early stage. It's really dangerous to go and expose that type of information. But I'm saying, like, for example, you know, GP that we had a deal from, like we had a deal around a specific GP. How many people have invested with this GP in the past on Visor? How many people have reinvested with that GP?

Right?

If they only invested— how many deals of that GP have went full cycle on Visor? And then did it match what they thought, what they said it would be from an IRR and MOIC perspective? Right? That's from the Visor data. But there's also lawsuits, SEC data around that GP. And, you know—

Are you also analyzing the the form of the PPM as far as fees and waterfalls and looking at those against other benchmarks that, hey, this fee feels a little heavy, so it's going to get, you know, dinged for that.

100%. 100%. So yeah, so every— there's the IRR versus the benchmark. There's the fees versus the benchmark. There's the multiples versus the benchmark. All these things sort of are calculated on a single metric basis and rank between, between 1 and 5. And then it gives a whole score based on that. We've, we've, we've— again, this is very new. Like, this is— we've been working on it for a couple of weeks. We launched it a couple of days ago, you know, had about 50 deals go through it and still perfecting it. It's still a work in progress. But we can't say it's really hard to get above a 4. Imagine like 1 to 5. It's really hard to get above a 4. And so we're trying to, on the one side, you know, fix that because there are good deals that are going through there getting less than a 4. But on the flip side, I think it's really good because then when you get above a 4, it's like, holy shit, this is probably an amazing thing. I need to pay more attention to it or invest in it.

So talk a little bit more about AI because I think, you know, you guys were very early adopters of utilizing AI for different things that you built as kind of the the kind of initial version of Visor. From an LP perspective, you know, what are the tools that are now available? I mean, this is a really cool tool, rating deals. You've also used it to now analyze the PPMs. You know, what about due diligence? And, you know, what about other things that maybe you kind of foresee with AI helping LPs with transparency, with, you know, learning and shortcutting a lot of things that that maybe they had difficulty understanding before? How does AI change the game for investing in private markets over the next 5, 10 years?

I think we're still at the point where it's too loosely used. Even when we were at the conference a couple months ago, I've heard complaints from GPs who they'd get the output of ChatGPT around their deal, which is just a bunch of questions that the LP just copy-pasted and sent to them, which is like, The LP didn't even read it. They just sent it and they're investing and it's an oil and gas deal and they're asking about multifamily comps because like they didn't. So I think it's still very early. I think they're, you know, LPs.

We've got a lot, a lot of those outputs, by the way, too. So because I've seen them, you know, because it's like I mentioned before, right?

LPs feel like they need to be more sophisticated. They need to do better processes and not invest based on gut. And now they have this tool called AI Bot that they can upload deal documents to and, oh, I'm doing a better job at going and vetting it. But they're not really doing anything deep. They're just rolling a can to a chat. And I think that's a big mistake. I think people, LPs, are misunderstanding what they should use these chatbots for because they're not fully trained on what they are trying to get from them, which is analyzing private equity, private credit type stuff. So that's, that's, that's, I think, you know, not the, not the downside, but that I think people aren't really using it in the right way. But I think definitely, you know, building agents, building bots that are sophisticated enough to understand what you're operating with, that's what I've seen. GPs, when they send a deck They send, you know, there are all these fund admin platforms that allow the GP to distribute a deal in a platform that's AI-native type platform. So they have all the deal docs and then they're already in the platform. And so the LP can now ask questions on that deal with, you know, the tone and voice of the GP. So And I think it's really smart because what they're doing when they do that is they're removing the need for the LP to take it and throw it into ChatGPT. They're just staying in that interface and asking questions in an environment that is somewhat controlled by the GP. Does that make sense?

You just have AI bots talking back and forth to each other trying to solve the questions.

That's another aspect. But yeah.

Yeah, no, I hear you. I think that it makes sense. And I think it's, as a GP, it's important to, um, to also be aware of these things. And from our perspective as well, it's like, how do we make it simpler so these questions are clearer? And, um, you know, an LP doesn't feel the need to have to go ask 100 questions for a $50,000 investment because that's usually, you know, we, we don't usually respond to those.

No, I think you, I think you guys are one of the examples of a GP that really You know, hits the nail on the head beforehand. Like, you, you usually all the webinars you guys create before you send out a deal, they answer most of the questions that a GP would have asked and doesn't need to now because it's already in front of them. I don't remember if you guys have like that AI embedded in the platform you guys use.

We don't. So that, that's something we should, we should talk about. And yeah, yeah, we just have regular eye.

We just work on the regular eye.

Yeah, that's right.

As, as a tech nerd, what's your favorite LLM that you guys build off of or use the most?

Oh, I'm all in on Claude now. Like, I don't, I don't look at anything else. Um, I mean, I've obviously— you go back and forth and, and, you know, they, they all— there's always a leapfrog for one of them. But I kind of think from an AI standpoint that these large companies have chosen their battles. And OpenAI has chosen the consumer battle and Claude has chosen the B2B battle. And each of them are, I think, are going to continue to lead in those two segments unless something huge happens. I don't know if you guys have played around with Claude at all, like Claude Co or Claude Code.

That's what we're using now is for us, we got the corporate level and everyone's—

Yeah, it's kind of winning the battle for the finance space and tech and coding space so far.

What we can deploy now within an hour used to take a month. It would take my code. Yeah.

Yeah. You obviously have an army of developers and, you know, so it's going to be a game changer for you, you know.

Mind-blowing. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's exciting. Well, Lathan, for those that maybe aren't using Vizor or want to learn more about it, give us the quick hit there of how do people find more about what you do and just the different kind of pricing tiers, etc., that you have?

Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. So if you head over to Vizer, which is Vizer.co, that's, that's a platform. That's where all the pricing is there as well. Basically, it's a freemium model, meaning you can try for free and then the higher plans are $1,700 to $9,500 a year depending on the feature set that you need. But I think I always recommend just try the free and play around with it and see how it works. Before upgrading anything. And the deal vetting agent is deal.visor.co. So also pretty straightforward. And I'm happy to hop any calls or answer any emails that anyone has. I'm Litan@visor.co. Oh wow.

Okay. You just gave out your email. Awesome.

Well, we'll put all the other— cell number.

Yeah, you can also drop that.

Just kidding.

Yeah, we'll, uh, we'll put all those links in the show notes. And LaTawn, always, always a pleasure. Uh, would love to have you back on maybe later this year to review those trends and, and hear more about what you guys—

yeah, you're a great pioneer in, in our space, so keep at it.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. This was fun.

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